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Bitcoin Surges To New USD Record High (+100% In 7 Days)

Tyler Durden's picture


A week after spiking above $900, before dropping 50% in the following 48 hours amid last week's Senate hearings, Bitcoin has recovered the losses (i.e. doubled) and is now trading at record high levels against the USD - $930 on Mt.Gox. Notably, in China, Bitcoin remains well off its record highs (5200 vs 6989 highs).




As Mike Krieger asks, is Bitcoin the Black Swan no one saw coming?


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Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:33 | 4191401 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

$877 on Coinbase.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:40 | 4191439 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

Litecoin at $17.74 on BTC-e.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:43 | 4191450 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Can one purchase Litecoin with USD on BTC-e?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:49 | 4191480 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

Yes, you can.  I buy Bitcoin (BTC) using Coinbase and then transfer the BTC to BTC-e (Bitcoin Exchange) and buy Litecoin (LTC) and then transfer them to their respective "wallets".

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:50 | 4191498 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

But not directly.  Sounds a bit over my pay grade but I'll explore.


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:51 | 4191512 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

No problem.  All the luck!

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:55 | 4191526 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:06 | 4191570 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Recommended viewing:

Truth is, and because of inumerable variables, we just don't know where btc is going.  But the trend is adoption and that trend is way up.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:19 | 4191624 BellyBrain
BellyBrain's picture

Anyone turning those BTC into local fiat?  How liquid are the exchanges?  How about buying things at bitcoinstore? 


I'm curious more than anything -- never got in on it myself.  Too bad for me...

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:26 | 4191644 PathForward
PathForward's picture

* The recent price run-up in BTC is likely manipulation from TPTB, not from speculative BTC advocates.
* This is a long comment, but please bear with me, since I believe I can show how BTC fits into the bigger picture. I welcome your better ideas.
* Here’s the path as I see it:
* The US government purposely wreaks havoc with new crypto-currencies (e.g., Bitcoin) as they’re launched and come into play. The way the USG wreaks havoc, is simply by undermining confidence in CC’s by causing dramatic occasional price drops. Here’s one way the USG could accomplish that goal: Consistently buy BTC on the open market over a period of time, thereby creating a parabolic upward ramp in BTC’s USD price. By making those purchases, the USG would build a large position in owning BTC. Then upon occasion and without providing any notice, the USG would sell off most of its BTC holdings in a relatively short period of time, thereby causing a dramatic and confidence-shattering price fall. How will vendors or consumers ever begin to feel comfortable holding value in BTC, if periodically there are large and sudden price drops? As long as people have confidence in conventional fiat currencies, and as long as BTC is traded for conventional fiat currencies on open markets, and as long as governments fear losing monetary control to CC’s, there will be disorderly action in CC pricing, and confidence in CC’s will not be allowed to grow strong.
* Multiple governments around the world (e.g., China) continue to acquire physical gold as rapidly as possible while being careful not to directly cause the spot market to break.
* The COMEX eventually has a delivery default for futures contracts of physical gold, wherein too many longs stand for delivery, which thereby ends the paper game.
* The price for physical gold skyrockets.
* Prices for a wide variety of commodities rise (e.g., oil) and hyperinflation ensues.
* As hyperinflation progresses, US citizens encounter severe difficulties and they learn to consume far less energy, thereby reducing oil imports to a level where the USA can potentially survive using only domestic oil reserves (i.e., no more imported energy is required).
* After a period of continued hyperinflation, the USD becomes almost worthless and the USG announces/releases a New Dollar (ND).
* The ND exists as a certificate (i.e., paper note) that’s 100% redeemable for an *extremely* small amount of physical gold, which thereby instantly revalues gold substantially even higher around the world. Hardly anyone can believe how valuable gold becomes.
* The USG offers to exchange old USD’s for ND’s for a relatively short period of time and at a fixed exchange rate (e.g., 1 trillion to one), after which old USD’s are no longer considered legal currency. US citizens are extremely disappointed at how few ND they are offered for their old USD, and many people vow never to trust the USG again with their savings. Gold is once again considered a special commodity, and it’s deemed suitable as a long-term savings vehicle.
* During the hyperinflationary period, most people are able to pay off their home mortgages, since their loans are denominated in old USD’s. That’s one of the few benefits the people receive through hyperinflation.
* During the brief currency exchange period, the USG effectively ends up paying out approximately 5% of its total physical gold reserves in exchange for old USD’s, thereby leaving the USG with 95% of its physical gold reserves available.
* The USG stays in power and has large gold reserves to spend as it’s effectively forced by lower-level systems (i.e., the people) to morph into a more balanced entity. Because the US gold reserves are limited, the USG realizes that it must rein in spending and achieve a better balance of control with the people. (i.e., the USG effectively promises its people that it won’t create more new money than it has gold to back ND with.)
* Crypto-currencies (e.g., Bitcoin) become more stable in value since the USG is no longer able to create fiat money at will to wreak havoc with them. CC’s grow in popularity and effectively become backed by gold, since crypto-currencies (CC’s) trade freely for all different kinds of value, including physical gold.
* Due to continued distrust of the USG by US citizens, large quantities of ND’s are either redeemed for physical gold directly from the USG, or ND’s are traded in exchange for CC’s. Eventually, CC’s largely replace the USD as currency, thereby making it almost impossible for the USG to exert excessive control through monetary means, and forces the USG to operate within a balanced budget since the USG cannot create CC’s nor gold out of thin air. In addition, very few citizens are willing to lend value to the USG (i.e., treasure debt), which thereby helps to keep USG expenses in line with actual tax revenues.
* A 15% flat tax is implemented on personal income, the home mortgage deduction is eliminated along with almost all other tax breaks, and the vast majority of entitlement programs are completely eliminated.
* That’s the bigger picture, and that’s how CC’s are going to fit into it.
* Expect severe and repeated pummelings of the BTC price until the COMEX defaults and fiats begin to plunge. The USG has the means to remain in control for now, and it will likely perform the actions required to achieve that goal.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:31 | 4191667 CH1
CH1's picture

It goes up, it goes down, it goes up again...

... but it remains Free Men's Money!

Fuck the cartel!

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:30 | 4191883 Stackers
Stackers's picture

mining away at 200 giga hashes right now ;)

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 20:03 | 4192308 seek
seek's picture

600 here. I think Alloutofbubblegum said he's over 1TH. It'd be interesting to see what ZH subscribers total hashrate is.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 20:52 | 4192431 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Maybe there should be a "ZHmining" pool.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 22:20 | 4192612 seek
seek's picture

That'd be pretty easy to do if we're all on the same pool. I use btcguild.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 09:14 | 4193338 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

I would love to see a ZH mining pool. For both BTC and LTC

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:32 | 4192509 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

mining a BTC a day keeps the jobs away

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 20:51 | 4192430 lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

Bitcoin gets slapped because MtGox restriction on cash withdrawls.


If you had 25k Bitcoins from the old days you sold them through Mtgox when it was the only exchange.

Withdrawl restrictions @ MtGox mean. You have to buy them back to use another exchange, thats why the exchange arb exists.

This causes up and down vacums.  Gold in a down trend  Bitcoin in an illiquid uptrend. No manipulation Just a market.

So many playing the maniluplation card coz so many think Gold should be higher and Bitcoin should be zero.

Deal with it.



Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:56 | 4191746 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

The BTC market is peanuts compared to real fiats and PM's.  It makes no sense at all for the USG to tamper with a currency that may implode on its own.

Currently, $1-3MM can cause wild swings all day long in BTC.  Probably can be done with far less.  Not to mention that there is also no way to predict how that sort of intervention would impact BTC.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 20:54 | 4192434 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Bitcoin is at 50% the value of the entire world silver stockpile (billion ounces) and has already passed palladium.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 22:31 | 4192628 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Not sure how you are calculating this. The silver institute has 700 million ounces mined last year alone.

Bitcoin is only $12 billion max. Gold is a $9 trillion market.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 00:46 | 4192922 wintermute
wintermute's picture

Most of the mined silver is consumed by industrial processes.

In fact, articles like above indicate that stockpiles are meagre.

This ZH item reports total silver of all forms could be 5 billion ounces which equals about 8x the value of Bitcoin, but it is a real stretch to include granny's silver spoons as currency.


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 18:07 | 4192005 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Re US Government actions in Bit-coinland.....

You will know them by their MonkeyHammer

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:38 | 4192516 Matt
Matt's picture

Please explain how the US Government, which is barely aware of bitcoin, is manipulating the price of bitcoin when three quarters of the on-exchange trading volume is happening in China in Yuan? 

Today, the price movements are being lead by Mt Gox, but the big moves from $100 to $900+ in the first place were driven by China.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 22:36 | 4192646 PathForward
PathForward's picture

Matt, thanks for the feedback - perhaps you're closer to the truth. Cheers.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 19:59 | 4192300 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

I cash out regularly; also buy from bitcoinstore with no problem so far. 

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:43 | 4192524 Matt
Matt's picture


Bitstamp ( seems highly liquid and looks like it should be fairly easy to get your money out.

Right now, I'm using Canadian Virtual Exchange ( because the transfers involve less fees (no currency conversions) and have been very fast so far, priced in CAD, lower liquidity, usually prices between BTC-e and Bitstamp.

Mt.Gox is a money trap, and tends to have the highest prices so I don't recommend it for buying or selling, and I do not consider it an accurate pricing mechanism.

Watch out for the alternate exchanges; there are tons of crappy little exchanges that are not registered businesses that may be illiquid, could be scams, or may get shut down by a government at anytime, if they don't get hacked and robbed first.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:01 | 4191549 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

and have you ever bought anything with it? :)

The greed of the bitcoin holders is what is going to kill it because nobody is spending any you know.

You call it a currency... while you don't use it to buy anything...

makes as much sence as... bitcoins...

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:35 | 4191677 CH1
CH1's picture

Another ignorant, smary comment.

People buy things with BTC all the time. Thousands of people.

Bitoin has value because it is used, not because it sits in a wallet.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:37 | 4191916 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

so a thousand people use it... that's not exactly a lot you know.

Well keep you bitcoin close and we'll see :)

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 20:09 | 4192332 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

My price for an ounce gold is around 8 to 9 dollars, you know.. 1.5 btc.

Also got a radeon w9000 for mining litecoin.

Somethings still need fiat, but most things don't.  Even subway franchises are taking it.  

Don't say people don't buy anything with it.  It's not true at all.  

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:06 | 4192457 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture is a listing of merchants who accept bitcoin.  There may be a few in your area -- the list is growing at an increasing rate.  I expect the list to explode through the end of this year and into next just like the BTC price previously exploded.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:54 | 4191740 A is A
A is A's picture

I am tired of this "everyone is just holding bitcoins" shit. Is gold garbage too because we are just "holding" it and don't buy anything with it? Besides, if velocity of a currency is everything, wouldn't BTC skyrocket even more once people really start using it? Saving and wanting to maintain the value of my money in a certain currency doesn't make that currency worthless.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:45 | 4191945 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

well... there's a lot of countries that don't really agree with you on that one...

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:35 | 4192513 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

hah look at the village idiot still mumbling about Zimbawweee people using gold to get water or some nonsense...  spin the idiot round and round.. kick the idiot to the ground ...  harhahrhar  HODOR!!!


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:55 | 4191747 Saro
Saro's picture

"have you ever bought anything with it?"

Of course.  I put together a very nice computer about 6 months back through

Great company. :)

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:01 | 4191772 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

That is not necessarily the greed of bitcoin holders.  It is a deflationary asset by design.  Thus, people will always hoard and its value will always go up.

Some define it as a currency, and it can be used as such.  Others define it as a commodity, money, store of wealth you name it.  It doesn't really matter.

It can't serve as a currency now as you point out do to price instability.  However, it does stabilize on occasion and it is used as a currency.  Silk Road should be proof enough.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:42 | 4192526 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the real shoot up after they closed Silk Road wasn't because it is now clean of crime like the press tried to spin...  it just got great press and proved people used it for 2 years in a market


and also, people do not have to buy and hold btc to buy things with btc...  many places charge less fees than creditcards for instant transacations and the online stores sell the items at a discount because of it




Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:13 | 4191809 margaris
margaris's picture

Yes, I recently bought hardware, webhosting and domainnames with bitcoins.

I completely circumvented Fiat to buy those things/services, only half a year ago I would STILL have used Fiat to buy those things/services.

Now not anymore!

So several thousands (measured in dollars) went to BTC instead of fiat...

and that's just me... your average joe.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:25 | 4191866 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

The way coveting, greed, and bubbles work, is that it's only a bubble if you don't own it.

I strongly suggest/request that those who 'hates it', not buy it. That way they can either gloat or wallow in bitter misery some day. Seeing that their position is based more on emotion posing as 'reason', than anything else.

Either way, like for any investment or speculation... Never invest or speculate more than you can risk to lose.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:40 | 4191924 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I don't hate it.

But all I see is people who act like idiots because they have a bitcoin and who actually believe it's worth a million soon.

It's a typical instrument bought by nerds and if you know nerds... nerds are people who wish to be better than other people but who fail to do so because they're out of touch with the real world.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:45 | 4192531 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

you seem out of touch with protecting your purchasing power

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 09:23 | 4193357 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

Aren't nerd redefining the world in their image? Aren't we reading and posting here based on technology developed by nerds over the last 40 years: packet switching, tcp/ip, ethernet, linux, http, DNS, apache, SQL, perl, python, etc etc etc.

Hell, your animated gif icon is based on tech developed by nerds at IBM 25 years ago.

Real is as real does.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 23:00 | 4195842 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

lulz on the anim gifs  :)

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:25 | 4191871 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

Can you describe some of your purchases you've made directly with PMs?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:49 | 4191954 CH1
CH1's picture

BTC is "Private" commerce. Remember?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:54 | 4191742 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Wow, so convenient! I think I'll make my business all bit coin and hire a staff of 500 to handle all the transaction alchemy.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:48 | 4191956 CH1
CH1's picture

Ignorance on parade.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:48 | 4191481 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture




Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:51 | 4191508 fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar is both a particle and a wave.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:09 | 4191588 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

... and a shill.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:47 | 4191952 Induced Coma
Induced Coma's picture

wave-partical-shill triality




Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:42 | 4191452 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Glad I got into some Litecoin too even though I don't see it offering much (if any) advantages over Bitcoin.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:46 | 4191468 StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

They keep playing it as Bitcoin is Gold and Litecoin is Silver.  I own both.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:52 | 4191513 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Yield chasers tired of taking a beating in the stock market and taking a beating on low interest rate return on bonds are most likely going to bid up litecoin next as bitcoin becomes too pricey for retail investors. I'd be positioned in litecoin right now also. It is going to bid up as bitcoin becomes more wide spread and accepted in the global market. How high is anyone's guess.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:54 | 4191523 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin will never become too expensive for anyone.  There's eight decimal places to a Bitcoin.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:02 | 4191550 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

You miss the point of human pyschology here if you price things or sell things as .0001 btc for example it is counter to what they know as far as money goes. You are asking too much too quickly without a coherent conversion process so people can wrap their heads around it as it becomes more prevalent. Calling them satoshi's or satwhatevers is not going to cut it. The average person will go with what they know hence which means the lower valued stuff they can afford priced in denominations they understand. You are asking the average person to think in reverse of how they've been taught to think about money. That ain't happening easily or overnight. This is why tech people don't do marketing and vice versa.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:04 | 4191558 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:10 | 4191598 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

You are correct.  Consider also that the decimal point can be moved to make it more palatable.  Since it there can be a finite amount, the introduction part was strange, too.  Pizza's cost thousands of bitcoin which also didn't make sense.  It depends on how many people use it to where the decimal point should be.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:37 | 4191685 fonestar
fonestar's picture

We don't wait for luddites.  Psychology or not, they will just be left behind where they deserve to be.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:47 | 4191718 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

You forget what it is like to be stupid and that arrogance will come back to bite you in the ass. Just watch Bernanke and the crew. Anything to ultimately gain mass acceptance has to be easily accessed and understood once you get past the early adopter stage. This is the reason why Linux never took fire except for techy geek types until people Steve Jobs stepped into the fray and polished it up and made it accessible and easy to use for the masses. Don't forgot what it is like to be stupid...........

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:50 | 4191724 CH1
CH1's picture

Don't forgot what it is like to be stupid.

That's a good point... although the critical factor is more "brainwashed" than stupid.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:02 | 4191775 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

From what I have seen, you can still purchase in $ denominations, which are converted from bitcoin and vice versa.  That way, there is not a lot of confusion on the conversion.

The key for Bitcoin is not buying at Amazon, per se.  It would be moving money vast distances at no cost.  Think of sending money to a kid in a foreign country.  Instead of working through Western Union or something like that, you can just send coins to their wallets.  No fees and the transaction is almost instantaneous.

Now, if someone like Amazon wanted to accept it, they could request payment in dollar denominations and the transaction would convert from and to bitcoin.  All without transaction fees.  I wonder what the transaction fees are for Amazon in terms of their Visa, MC, and Amex card services fees.  It must be astronomical.  It would make sense to go to some sort of digital currency to speed transactions, cut down on bogus credit card charges, and eliminate fees.

Its not going to happen tomorrow.  But it is going to happen.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:50 | 4192545 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

there are small miner transaction fees or your money moving will take a fortnight

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:49 | 4192538 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

.1 BTC will be called Nixons

.01 BTC will be called Clintons

.001 BTC will be called Bushes

.0001 BTC will be called Carters


(and yes I know btc is a world thang...  but you know how us americuns are)

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:55 | 4191530 dasein211
dasein211's picture

What's the easiest way to trade/get litecoin?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:47 | 4192540 Matt
Matt's picture

If you have a decent AMD video card, you can mine them profitably. seems to be the largest, most established exchange with the best liquidity for buying Litecoins with USD, Rubles, Euros or Bitcoins. I guess it depends on if you are comfortable with an exchange operating under Bulgarian jurisdiction. 

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 04:21 | 4193127 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Money to OKpay, then to BTCe, then trade your $ into either: BTC, LTC, NMC, NVC, XPM, PPC or TRC :) I have a spread of all of them. 

It costs 2% from ok to btce but free to move your cryptos once you have them, including from your iphone blockchain app to someone you want to send one to (who also has the blockchain app).

LTC probably the best bet at the moment* but XPM and NMC are getting good pumps (and hence larger tradeable price swings).

I bought 300 NMC two days ago for $1.66 for a laugh; they are $7.335 this morning :)

Cryptos bitchez!


*unless it isn't.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 04:11 | 4193123 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Litecoin $20.58 this morning!

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 09:29 | 4193374 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

This litecoin thing is totally crazy. I bought in at $2 but didn't hold. oh well.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:45 | 4191458 Nothing but the...
Nothing but the truth.'s picture

One day, in the not too distant future , we will look back at this ponzi scheme and wonder why so many people got sucked in.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:45 | 4191470 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:47 | 4191473 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Not everyone is as stupid and backwards as your neighbours in USA.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:51 | 4191510 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

I take comfort in knowing that if a Fiat currency like btc can wipe out all major currencies then silver can and will have the final say. He who laughs last and all that

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:55 | 4191533 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin is not a fiat currency.  Nobody forces anyone to use Bitcoin.  Study the terminology of that which you profess to know.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:03 | 4191557 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

What is backing btc. Faith..good luck with that

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:06 | 4191577 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Hope that power generation never goes down

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:35 | 4191681 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Global power outage is a stupid argument.  I hope aliens don't confiscate my BTC too.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 19:32 | 4192232 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

First of all, it isn't too far off with how vulnerable the system is by nature. Second, doesn't need to be global, just your country of residence would have to be knocked out for you to be SOL

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:29 | 4192507 BitStorm
BitStorm's picture

...ponder that statement... Your country of residence would have to be knocked out.

Yeah, I'll take that risk any day and twice on Tuesday. I'd say there's a much better chance of a cost effective method of knocking a proton out of mercury to make gold.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:58 | 4191759 Saro
Saro's picture

If someone asked you "What is backing gold?" what what you tell them?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:45 | 4191946 quartshort
quartshort's picture

My Saiga 12 ga.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 18:19 | 4192041 YC2
YC2's picture

Nutritional value

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:49 | 4191723 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Correct, it's not a fiat currency, rather a digital one. 


....que crickets chirping.....

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:48 | 4191482 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Everybody loves a winner. Let's just hope enough people get out before it implodes.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:53 | 4191519 fonestar
fonestar's picture

We have already moved to the future.  It is sunny and nice here and we are watching you implode.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:03 | 4191559 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

well, met's just say I've got more than that 1000$ you have in your bitcoin ;)
So don't worry for me and don't wait to long to pay your rent with your rentmoney that you put into that bitcoin :)

and better not wait to long untill they cut electricity either... that makes it even harder to sell that bitcoin...

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 04:26 | 4193129 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Jeez, how many times.....

Bitcoin is a bet on a future that WORKS. It is not meant for apocalypse riding!!!!

And to think that any of us will be even slightly worried about a few online chips if the power/internet goes out for more than the requisite 3 days (only 9 meals away from chaos etc) is laughable.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:51 | 4191501 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

I absolutely agree if you mean the fiat debt Ponzi.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:58 | 4191541 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

It's not really a wonder with the oncoming fiat debacle.  People will buy into anything to diversify risk.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:03 | 4192439 Haole
Haole's picture

One day, in the not too distant future, we will look back at all those who ignorantly and incorrectly called it a Ponzi scheme and wonder why so many people were left behind.


Hmmm, purchasing power of gold down again today, on the contrary for Bitcoin. How unusual...

Gold is a Ponzi scheme.

There, that's how utterly idiotic people look when they call Bitcoin a Ponzi. Good luck with that.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:37 | 4191419 l1b3rty
l1b3rty's picture

Good thing I never bought that palladium I thought about buying.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:40 | 4191436 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I just found that website last week, excellent site and analysis.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:39 | 4191431 fonestar
fonestar's picture

On localbitcoins two of my favourite sellers are out of Bitcoins right now while prices are surging again.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:13 | 4191604 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

So... no supply...

nobody is selling any...

nobody is spending any...


ever wondered when anybody actually starts to sell?

You do know there are guys out there that have like 100000 bitcoins that they bought for a penny right?



you look and it's at a thousand
you blink...
and look again and it's vallued at 1000 x it's actual weight in ounces.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:38 | 4191695 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People are selling and transacting.  You're just too stupid to notice.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:41 | 4191929 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

oh... and where did you notice it? :)




Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:53 | 4192552 Matt
Matt's picture

Here we can see hundreds of thousands of bitcoins being traded daily:

And here we can see the transactions, in hundreds of millions of dollars per day:

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:39 | 4191700 CH1
CH1's picture

Going for the "king of Bitcoin trolls" title?

Lotta hate there.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:55 | 4191744 1000924014093
1000924014093's picture

Anybody who has bought Bitcoin for anything like a penny, and has not sold it already for something substantial, is an idiot.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:39 | 4191922 CH1
CH1's picture

True enough.

And it's magnificent for taking gains - just buy what you need with it!

And, the more you use it, the more you drive up the price.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:39 | 4191433 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

My current estimate is we hit $1,000 soon. Failure would be anything under 750 - 800, as most upward moves that Bitcoin has tend to fall apart when the momentum slows down. One hell of a ride, its been fun!

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:41 | 4191446 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin is seeing widespread adoption throughout Europe and China.  These are people buying and using Bitcoin, so I don't expect this to be like the last rally and crash from $266.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:16 | 4191618 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

like I said before... I don't know any.
And I know a shitload of people.

99% of the people never heard about it.

You're blindsighted by the pumpers who direct you to their own websites where they post fake "articles"

So before you sell you're mama's dentals to buy that second bitcoin, you should also look for the comments of thhe non pumpers and analyze them.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:27 | 4191651 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

"99% of people never heard about it"

I think you just made an argument for it, not against it

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:52 | 4191728 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

How?  Do you really want to use a "currency" that one guy in a hundred embraces while 99 don't know if a bitcoin is worth more or less than a squirt of piss?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:42 | 4191936 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Upside, baby.

How many people know the first thing about gold or silver? 99 out of 100 are clueless. Yet, most ZH'ers own some, and know the reason why.

In a world where literally billions of people have a smartphone in their pockets, the word on BitCoin has a much better chance of spreading than the word on gold.

Not saying one is better than the other, they have different uses and purposes, but as far as adoption by everyday people is concerned, I prefer BitCoin's chances right now.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:57 | 4192562 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Both, baby!

+ 1

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:27 | 4191648 aardvarkk
aardvarkk's picture

If it crashes to 266 and stabilizes for a week, I'll probably buy a few just for the hell of it.  But I'm not buying at current levels.  I'd much rather buy physical and stack that buy...a few logical bits.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:28 | 4191880 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

If it crashes 75% you'll buy it......




Tue, 11/26/2013 - 18:21 | 4192044 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You wouldn't buy gold hand over fist at $300?  I would back my virtual truck up on $300 BTC.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 21:56 | 4192559 Matt
Matt's picture

So, how much gold did you buy at $1900, genius?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:40 | 4191705 CH1
CH1's picture

One hell of a ride, its been fun!

Bitcoin has value because people USE it.

You might want to look into that.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:28 | 4191887 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

at subway to buy a footlong... and for computer games...

monkey see monkey do I guess...

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 18:13 | 4192024 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Where do you buy Bitcoins?  Wal Mart? The Bank? A Post Office?  Western Union?  I wanna get me some.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 18:30 | 4192071 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture person-to-person sales, but usually with a heavy markup (depends on each individual seller). is pretty easy if you live in the U.S.A.  Otherwise an exchange such as Bitstamp where you wire funds.  Both Coinbase and the exchanges require KYC/AML verification.  Or do like me and require BTC as the payment for your labor. 

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 19:04 | 4192148 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Coinbase has a reputation for reversing orders after they've cleared the bank when the price goes up.

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 09:35 | 4193385 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

I have read those comments as well. But I've done a lot of purchases through Coinbase and never had one reversed, even during a run up.

.... just one datapoint....

Wed, 11/27/2013 - 13:16 | 4194036 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

What excuse could there be for reversing two or three business days after it's cleared the bank?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:36 | 4191414 Australian Economist
Australian Economist's picture

I'd rather put my money in a 1000x leveraged ETF than buy BTC.



Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:45 | 4191464 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Because you do not understand the Bitcoin network, protocol or system. 

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:47 | 4191476 RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

No, because I DO understand the Bitcoin network, protocol and system.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:08 | 4191594 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:48 | 4191493 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

that's exactly why and I'm the guy people as for IT advice even before they go to IT.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:41 | 4191706 CH1
CH1's picture

How amazing you are!

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:26 | 4191876 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Yes I am! I'm glad you agree with me on that :)

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:06 | 4191579 Australian Economist
Australian Economist's picture

I understand enough to know it's a worthless ponzi scheme built only on hype.

Don't tell me Bitcoins hae value because people spend energy mining. It would take me a lot of effort to hit my head against a brick wall for an hour, it doesn't mean it has value.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:59 | 4191764 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Gold has no value either because people spend energy on mining it?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:56 | 4191984 Australian Economist
Australian Economist's picture

Gold actually exists

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 18:15 | 4192028 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Are you an Aussie cop with that badge or an drooling American F wit working for the NSA in OZ?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 18:42 | 4192103 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

One of the properties of Bitcoin that is valued by its supporters is its intangible nature. It is a virtual scarce good. A $147 million transaction took place the other day -- no fees, no banks, no border guards, complete and settled in under an hour.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:03 | 4191781 Saro
Saro's picture

Correct.  Bitcoins do not have value because they took work to create (the erroneous labor theory of value), nor do they have "instrinsic value" (because nothing does).  They have value because they possess properties that make them an excellent medium of exchange.


Wed, 11/27/2013 - 01:20 | 4192985 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Wait Erroneous labor value? Nothing has intrinsic value? Are you fucking serious? You cant name a product or service in the real world that wasn't the product of labor dipshit, nor could you deny the intrinsic value of using a fucking computer to mine imaginary bits of data to sell for real stuff made by real people. There is so much irony in your statement it is dumb founding.

Look bitcoins are no different than any other currency. Get over it. The price has exploded over the last couple of years and I get that if you bought them early it was probably because you believed in them. If I owned any bitcoin right now I would sell, you know why? I was feeling pretty good about my pm purcases not so long ago too and I watched the price shoot up and told nay sayers they were just sore losers but as we all know how that ended. I still own silver and gold but I would be very ccareful with this kind of price action, it is not sustainable. Furthermore bitcoins big weakness is that their is no limit to the number of other cryptocurrencies that can be made, and without something backing it such as hard assets or the ability to use it to pay taxes and debt obligations it really is worthless.

Enjoy the bubble while it lasts.


Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:08 | 4191581 Australian Economist
Australian Economist's picture



Double post. Is ZH slow today or is it just me?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:44 | 4191944 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

NSA puts extra resources on BitCoin threads.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:36 | 4191415 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I prefer goldcoin and silvercoin. I might even try platinumcoin and iridiumcoin.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:47 | 4191477 One And Only
One And Only's picture

No rhodiumcoin?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:53 | 4191735 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Long catalytic converters?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:47 | 4191484 tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

Plus 1

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:48 | 4191485 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture



Yep, calling all tulip lovers!

If you want to jump in... be my guest...

But don't be surprised when you SPLAT like Wilie E Coyote!

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 22:31 | 4192630 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Took my goldcoin to the coffee shop the other day.  The minumum wage barista behind the counter had real trouble calculating the exact weight which was due.  So, eventually I shaved off a micro gram and handed it over, waiting while she mumbled something about tungsten and calibrated the scale.  Then I decided to add one of their delicious cookies to my order and the whole process started all over again.  A small breeze came through, my gold got lost amongst the the dust bunnies behind the cooler.  Shoulda used bitcoin.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:37 | 4191424 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Try cashing that out when there's no fiat to cash it out in.  Doubtful anyone would trade you physical assets for your virtual wallet.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:43 | 4191456 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

But you accept virtual dollars?

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:50 | 4191497 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

As long as the supermarket and the pumpstation accepts them, yes.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 19:16 | 4192180 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Amagi Metals proudly accepts Bitcoin for gold/silver/platinum.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:47 | 4191472 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

No fiat to cash in? Don't worry, central banks will take care of that supply "problem". And not to forget the Chinese might wanna cash out of their 1.2 trln Dollars.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 16:00 | 4191547 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

That will be interesting to see what happens and a good point.  But the purpose is not to cash it in, but use it or store it as it is.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 15:40 | 4191435 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

that chart looks like a smushed chart of the S&P from 2008-present.

Tue, 11/26/2013 - 17:41 | 4191931 dwayne elizando
dwayne elizando's picture

That is almost exactly what that chart looks like! Complete mindf_ck!

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