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Presenting The BitKillers: These Are The Richest Holders Of Bitcoin
The top holder of Bitcoins is the unlikely named 1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a with 111,111 units of the crypto-currency (up from 40,000 units in the summer of 2011) for a total value over $110 million. Perhaps most interesting is these 100 Bitcoin holders represent over 20% of the entire outstanding amount of the alternative currency.
The following 100 Holders represent 2.23 million Bitcoins of the 11.12 million total oustanding currently...
(click image for full list)
and the Number 1 Holder has been adding (though hasn't added since Feb 2013...)
And the concentration of Bitcoins has fallen from its early incarnation highs but has been static for recent months...
Source: BitcoinRichList
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Click on the picture. You'll see this is the data at the creation of block 235,000. We're at block 271,976 now.
Gold has been money for many thousands of years, and for good reason. It's easy to transport, it doesn't rust, etc. But it also doesn't have many practical applications. In the event of worldwide doomsday, I think a bar of gold will be about as useful as 100 bitcoins.
stop talking out your ass, please.
Is it true that all "bitkillers" are also rabid tulip fanciers?
Hello Dear_Infinity,
While I agree on the metals, I had looked a few eeeks back and wasn't too pleased on "bitcoin premiums". I considered transferring some of my BTC to metals and began an porder with one of them, then found the Gold items in my cart, and the larger bulk like sealed mint monster boxes, were disallowed as well. Now what I HAVE found that is of extreme interest to me is using Bitcoin to purchase either a decent land block in a sustainable Libertarian community, or a share of the proceeds from the organic farm itself that is onsite. Now that is a great way to go, transferring appreciated BTC proceeds, rolled into a farm income/revenue stream. The PTB can sit on precious metals prices, the PTB can crush Btc at a time of their choosing (if only temporarily unless all major countries get behind restrictions and prohibitions), but the PTB cannot control the inflation of clean organic sustainable (and increasing) farm revenue streams. I will hold my metals until they are buried with me in proper Nordic fashion. But some allocation of my BTC may go to this, without being tagged with discounts or restrictions on what I can purchse therein. Not a bad way to go with Ag shortages and inflation in both water and food costs coming down the pike.
VUR
Crud!! I was really hoping to see my name on that list somewhere or perhaps find a new rich family member. Can someone PLEASE tell me what is the next Bitcoin?
Maybe they ought to buy some gold and silver
I bet if Satoshi Naka-Mr.Roboto converted his stash to Au/Ag, he'd break the COMEX system.
Not really, even if all theoretical 21 million bitcoins were transferred into gold at parity (XAUXBT currently 1.28 and approaching parity), that would still only be just over 714 troy tons.
HAHAHAHAHA !!! WOOooo...HOOOooooHAHAaaa.......LOL !! ROTFLMAO !
These fucktards OWN their bitcoins.
You mean this.......
0011110110101101110101001010101010101010101000000011011001011110111101101101010101010100100010000010101010101001010101010100000010101010101010101001010010001010101011000101010101011101010001010101101010101010101110110101010101011111111111111111110000000000000000000100000000001110101010100000000000010111111111110101010101010101100000101101011110110110110110010101010101011010101011010101010010101010101010101010101010101010
There.....I just made a bitcoin.
Wanna buy......opening bid $2,000
I can do this all night.....old school typing skilzs bitchez !!! LOL !!!!
Even with Bitcoin....there are the elites....and the rest of us......using our GPU's for BOINC clients looking for clues to gravitational waves or asteroids or proteing folding patterns to solve cancer......or even World of Warcraft.....that's even more usefull than fucking Bitcoin.
Bitcoin....now YOU can make your own pet rock......without the hundred of millions of years to make the fucking rock.
Hey Jumbotron,
What's your take on EUR, USD, JPY and CNY for end of 2014?
What do you think M2 and M3 increase YoY will be end of 2014 in each of those currencies?
Why did the FED stop traking M3 in 2006 (was'nt this at the height of a bubble if I recall)? As the only difference between M2 and M3 is "Large time deposits, institutional money market funds, short-term repurchase and other larger liquid assets" you don't think that's intentional so the masses don't see the ever increasing spread between M2-M3 do you? Or just coincidence?
If I could possibly give less of a fuck about currencies and their non-sensical valuations in the age of the endless Central Bank Printer......then I would.
But the velocity of my giving a fuck has reach zero.
That said.....the velocity of M1, M2, and M3 (reconstructed has been falling or is flat.........even after TRILLIONS printed and TRILLIONS more taken off the books of banks to free up their ability to lend.
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/money-supply-charts
That's deflation. I see no reason that that trend will end. When there are less workers in the workforce and they are making less than their fathers did in the 70's (on and inflation adjusted basis) the basic demand structure dictates lower prices.
But with Fed printing artificially making other prices (like food) go up......we are going to have STAGFLATION as far as the eye can see......until the currency crisis and the popping of the bubble.
That said.....the velocity of M1, M2, and M3 (reconstructed has been falling or is flat.........even after TRILLIONS printed and TRILLIONS more taken off the books of banks to free up their ability to lend. That's deflation. I see no reason that that trend will end. When there are less workers in the workforce and they are making less than their fathers did in the 70's (on and inflation adjusted basis) the basic demand structure dictates lower prices. But with Fed printing artificially making other prices (like food) go up......we are going to have STAGFLATION as far as the eye can see......until the currency crisis and the popping of the bubble.
Projection is a common distortion of rational thought. Any time someone says "far as the eye can see" it's obvious that they're projecting in pretending to know the unknowable. Speaking of things they don't know and which are impossible to know.
There are many forms of projection, but they are always "delusional" to at least some degree, not implying psychopathy, but more like a sub-optimal understanding. In classical psychoanalysis, they use the word transference instead of projection, but they're one and same. The analysee projects onto the analyst their own desires, which are often erotic in nature, but not always.
Probably the first form of projection we experience as children is the projection of the self onto others. With many of the sorts of people who are literally "self-centered," they will seem to always view the actions or even feelings and thoughts of those around them from their own point of view, essentially "forgetting" that the other is not the same person as she. I get this all the time from my little sister, who seems to always forget that we're no longer children living under our parents' dominion and control. She not only "forgets" that I am not her (or self v. other) in always criticizing my actions, thoughts, feelings, etc. because they do not comport with what SHE thinks that she would doing, thinking, or feeling if she were in my position ... but there's also a time element to it where she also "forgets," or doesn't care, like what year/decade it is, and that we're both grownups now, seemingly stuck in a timeless limbo where she can only "project" the present into the infinite future, or, even scarier, maybe she's stuck back in childhood and everything that has happened since is just a projection of that childhood state projected forward in time.
Consider the old pre-Copernican view of earth being the center of the universe and then try to count how many people you know in "real life" who show constantly display indications that, from somewhere deep inside their being, they truly believe that other people SHOULD act, speak, feel, and even think like they do. There may be so many of them that it's easier to count up the people who are NOT like that.
Point is it's human to project ourselvees on others just the same as it's natural and human to project in time, or, in the case of the quoted economic analysis, to project our own views onto the external reality by thinking that any of us can predict future events with any confidence. And it's not a question of intelligence or knowledge, but rather confidence versus uncertainty.
"Markets can stay irrational longer than you can remain solvent" is very apt. But irrational there is not used in the absolute sense of right versus wrong. Rather, it's the PERCEPTION of irrationality that is being addressed.
Simulation and predictive modeling has fascinated me since childhood. And then I had the good luck to find a career working with many people much smarter than me who saw my potential and let me do my own thing developing computer models of a very complex nature. The simulation code I wrote is still in use several decades after its first public release, essentially unchanged except for the clunky GUI wrapper they built around it, which the old-timers ignore because it gets in their way.
Anyway, I want to wish you all a good holiday where we celebrate our imperial privilege as the world's best-ever pillagers and destroyers, and leave you with a silly personal anecdote to show what kind of person I am.
Down the hall where I used to work on that simulation stuff there was a guy widely regarded as one the smartest people there in a very tall ivory tower of Piled-higher-and-Deepers. He used his office PC and attached HP LaserJet to print a sign taped to his door in like Arial 80 or larger to fill 8.5x11 in big block letters: SIMULATION IS REALITY . I couldn't tell if he was being arrogant or facetious, but it irked me nonetheless. What do you think I did to that sign working late one night with nobody around? Or, what would you do to it? Please email me if you find any of this even slightly interesting.
PREDICTION is what this post is about. I learned back there that NOBODY KNOWS what the future will bring, and that anyone who thinks they do know is a fool. Nothing personal, just sayin.
Okay, I'll offer you $800, just send the bitcoin to address 1JoRErNDoTJaC6jW4YdSjFBC4VuPhdtJW2 and I'll send
you the US dollars for it, just as soon as the block's been
confirmed 10 times.
I am in awe of your old school typing skills.
You think you are in awe.
I'm in awe E V E R Y D A Y of my own bullshit ! LOL !!!!
Gotta laugh somehow......too many reasons to cry.
Still waiting (latest from blockexplorer.com):
Address 1JoRErNDoTJaC6jW4YdSjFBC4VuPhdtJW2
First seen?: Never used on the network (as far as I can tell)
Received transactions: 0
Received BTC: 0
Now there's a sad panda.
@l1b3rty, do you do international shipments? Premiums in my present country of residence are off the charts.
I purchase from several US companies with decent premiums who also ship internationally. If you ever wish to aggregate, open a vaulting relationship in the US, place orders across a period of time, then have the vault send to you. An additional nicety, at least with the vault I was using, on the shipping the sender was the vault, not me. So my slave-id in the US was never brought into the picture on the forms that were filed to ship it to me. Nice.... The price wasn't too bad. Sent many Comex 1k ounce silver bars at a discounted shipping rate (the vault gave me a commercial rate not the hideous retail rate). Maybe around 200$ per 60+ pound bar with 2-3 day shipping into HK. Love HK...no duties.
VUR
If you replace the Dollar sign in the picture by Deutsche Mark, it looks like Weimar
6:39PM EST Bitcoin All time high @ $1074. Someone just bought 25.5 bitcoins at the high. Who the fuck has that kind of money to speculate???
$25K is not much money in the world of investment, especially if you're a 1%er.
Correct. I am paying for some BTC. I call it "education". PMs way outweigh my foray into BTC.
And I am nowhere near $25,000 in BTC. Not even an order of magnitude. I see the BIG BTC transactions with the exchanges (people buying other people's BTC) up to the 200 BTC at a time (~ $200,000!) at http://fiatleak.com/, so $25,000 really is not impressive.
Those exchange numbers do not include (AFAIK) mining of BTC nor purchases of whatever with BTC.
someone who had done the research at 25$ and promised themselves at 100$ that if it went to 1000$ that there was something to it ,and that it would go to 100000$.
The FED?
Most likely another alphabet agency holding the keys to Dread Pirate Roberts BitCoin account. Since confiscated, BTC has greater than doubled...
Yeah. Should have bought Gold @ $1239.
<It's all a matter of perspective. One man's speculation is another man's safe harbor.>
So it can be worth $1200 tomorrow? Savvy...
anyone owning a bitcoin is going to be one of the ruling class in the new world order! there is no stopping it now.
there is no limitation to the price that bitcoin can go to, given the failure of fiat currencys, failure of exchange of valuable objects, failure of exchange of labor.
nobody owning a bit coin will ever have to 'work for the man' again. they will be able to sit inside their mansion and simply trade and 'mine'.
if doctor faustus (no - it's not a t.v. series) ever had chance at fulfulling his dreams, he would have created bitcoin. but, he was living in primitive times
when they still raised tulips.
only the intelligent can truly understand what bitcoin really is now, and will become in the future. the potential is limitless.
(sarcasm, ok guys? and down arrows from the other, please!!)
well that counts me out. I don't own bitcoins and besides, you have to sell your soul to be in the ruling class
I don't remember you being so fucking insanely stupid on gold before?
Now you've resorted to trolling?
Just having some fun with so many on ZH who are still "so fucking insanely stupid" with regards to Bitcoin.
After a year of ignorantly shitting all over Bitcoin as it outperforms every other asset on the planet by hundreds and thousands of percentage points... If you and other commenters can't handle a little of your own medicine from the winning side who's had to politely endure this incessant BS then you can all put your bibs on and eat a bag of dicks frankly.
I wished you good luck earlier today. Now you tell me "eat a bag of dicks"? LOL, thanks pal.
Asset? Call me old school but if you can't touch it, you don't own it.
I find the story and run up compelling and all and maybe there is a bit of regret for not taking the ride for a few bucks, but the story hasn't played out yet despite the smarmy little techno pukes building little empires around it and the VC buzzards circling. I've seen this movie before and I'll wait for the next round, thanks.
+1 Concur.
If you receive an IRS refund, or a gift card for your birthday or food stamps;most likely its a debit card. All EMP hazordous and you cannot touch it until it's spent.
Fully aware of this. Also fully aware that I don't own my currency once deposited in a bank either- I'm just another unsecured creditor and the FDIC can't hope to cover it. If everyone understood this the game would end in a hurry.
Hey MeatBalls,
So true Meatie. Worse than "not an asset". Bitcoin was not developed by a rogue cryptologist. It was developed by the PTB to replace, in advance of fiat-burning, the next implementation of transaction functionality. It is the JUDAS GOAT leading Libertarian types away from the safe fundamentals of metals, hard assets of real value as mentioned above, and onto the craggy rocks of the reef in shallow waters. As Bitcoin gains acceptance and becomes more mainstream, there will be regulation, and at last, a valuation of an electronic currency tied to a basket of currencies, fixed by the PTB. We will all conduct our affairs, not using the old and at that time devalued USD. We will conduct our transactions via the new electronic currencies of the PTB. Bitcoin is the tip of a spear, not a herald of a forthcoming stirring of Liberty. While I am being forthcoming, any and all transactions with BTC are already traceable. If you think you transact anonymously, think again. I consider maybe 5-10% of transactions are anonymous at this point since ones peering over your shoulder online do not have complete record of every machine connecting to their internet. But for the most part, they do. Don't even get me started on encryption....or, as stated above, "Think Again".
VUR
Agreed Vincent. Anything is possible in the cloud- except to touch it. With all the NSA, etc. revelations the BC shills appear just a bit disingenuous don't you think? I'm pretty sure we learned that NOTHING is anonymous on the internet. I wish them well with the ride but not playing...
dup
I have 10% of my wealth (small as it is) in gold and silver - I bought it as insurance - if it goes ape shit in 5 to 20 years great - if not I leave it to my son.
Even position 500 is worth a cool $2 Million.
<Until it isn't.>
They're just holding because there's nothing to spend them on. Let's get some hookers together.
http://www.bitpremier.com/
...or you can pay your invoice for anything bought on eBay or Amazon through at least one payment processor.
...or buy from thousands of merchants connected with BitPay and Shopify.
...or buy breakfast, lunch or dinner at great restaurants two blocks from my house.
...or buy anything in between, even shiny, depreciating rocks.
You just have to know what you're doing and what you're talking about, unlike you and many others in these ZeroCred BTC threads.
Hilarious, the only thing some of you neanderthals have is down votes and those are depreciating too... LOL
They are down voting you because the website is currently 404'd.
Dumbass. Check your links next time.
It was up when I posted. Sorry I can't avoid the bad timing of having a site, that's been up for the better part of year, going down unexpectedly. If that makes me a dumbass then I'm not surprised that makes any sense on the old Hedge anymore...
It appears to be up again.
your coming across a tad needy
Lol, MrTouchdown, "nothing to spend them on". See my note above. Buy farmland, and shares in farm revenue streams with Btc...
VUR
iBitcoin, an app for my iPhone, just sent be a bunch of push notices. Apple is forcing them to remove buy, sell, and send features in order to remain in the App Store.
For some reason Apple has a virtual ban on anything bitcoin, this wouldn't be the first bitcoin app they've killed.
What's a virtual ban?
World English Dictionary:
virtual (?v??t???l) — adj 1. having the essence or effect but not the appearance or form of: a virtual revolution
So what Apple has done has the essence or effect of a ban, but not the appearance or form of one.
They haven't formally banned bitcoin apps, they just kill them on a regular basis.
Oh great. I now have enough BTC to play with, but iApple will not let me have an iApp for iBitcoin. Thanks Apple, next phone I get will be a KOREAN Samsung!
(I do not like iApple for other reasons too)
You can jailbreak the iPhone and have fun if you want, DoChen.
What's a virtual ban ?
Just like Bitcoin.....virtually nothing.
Virtual Wampum.
Digital shells found on a virtual shore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3nFk2_ij10
Neil Peart......the BEST !! Along with Rush.
If you use Bitcoin, toss the iObsolete and get Mycelium on something running Android. I love my MacBook Pros and iPod Touch but would never consider using an iPhone.
I was an iPhone early adopter. I stopped upgrading at the 4s. To me there has been no great improvements worth changing since then. Having said that, if they don't make a big leap forward with the six, then I'll be switching to a Galaxy.
Check out the Google Nexus 5. Sweet phone and the BTC wallet supports NFC (not that I've had the chance to use it).
i was thinking the same thing, holding onto my 4s...waiting for a bigger screen. the 5 sucked in that aspect and the 5s with fingerprint tech pushed me away forever. rumored that the 6 will even be more biometric 'secured'. HA!...not giving my biometrics to use a NSA tracking device!
Doc. You may want to consider jailbreaking your IoS device and then reinstalling the app. After reading the pros and cons of jailbreaking, it was worth the few minutes it took to unlock my iPhone.
I appreciate that advice. I guess that as long as I don't update then I won't lose those features. However, I will have to deal with looking at that darn red dot.
Funny, no such problems on my Android. Ah the magic of free markets.
Meet the new elites. Big rotation bitchez.
I am humbled by their presence.
Bitcoin is SOOO fascinating.
The fact that its originator is this wispy ghost that faded away.
The way that its current meteoric appreciation seems to be due to activity from China.
The way bitcoin rises while PM's languish.
The way (bitcoin gurus correct me if needed) ... that the transaction history is Permanently retained and as such, intelligence agencies need only to marry your past internet activity to clearing houses so to discover your origin. (easy since they record ALL activity.... it's archived remember. i.e. multibillion uath data center coming on line to store EVERY friggin digital activity in your LIFE)
Does the indisputable transaction activity correspond to Proof Positive that perhaps you didn't fully report taxes due, or capital gains ... and as such are you a sitting duck for gov prosecution?
As I said ...very interesting this bitcoin.
And make no mistake, I am NOT anti-bitcoin. Removing the cartel banks from transactions is a laudable goal
You're correct, it's permanently recorded.
However, you can generate new transaction addresses at will that aren't connected to you, so with very modest effort (e.g., generate new address and use an IP not connected you, like Starbucks or whatever) anonymity can be maintained. Remember it took a herculean effort to take out silk road and they didn't use bitcoin to do it -- meaning other methods were easier.
Your computer has a broswer of a certain make and vintage.
You likely have assorted cookies accruded from prior activities.
As you sip your overpriced drink at Starbucks ...are you COMPLETELY sure you can't be tracked? Especially when there's an IP camera somewhere in the vicinity recording your movements, along with cop cars with license plate readers ... feeding into central databases. All time stamped.
It goes on and on. You have no idea what's possible to collate data inputs.
All done on your dime by the way ...yes, you are essentiallly paying for the collar being put around your neck.
Yes, could be a baby from the dark .govs to ease us gently into a global currency. It's strange that the PBOC and other western .govs have given a basic nod to it.
Because they're in on it. Who the hell needs forced credit expansion and impotent QE inflationary measures when you can coax people into inflating quantum buxtm .
while i had thought of the fed and nsa letting bitcoin happen, i had given the chinese interest over to corrupt commi-garchs moving money out, not the pboc tracking them .... hmm.
I generate a new bitcoin address for paper wallets every few weeks on an offline computer booted from read-only media.
Bitcoins are transferred to that address by someone else. There is literally no way of connecting that address to a person, short of doind a direct physical search of them, and even that can be overcome with the right approach to encoding the seed.
Browsers spit out what they're told to spit out, as thousands of installations of Tails demonstrate.
As far as collating data, that applies to you whether bitcoin is used or not. However, unlike cash, I can accept payment at a bitcoin address without ever being present, and with an address that never touched the internet until the payment was made -- connecting it only to the payer's likely anonymous address, and with zero connection to the payee.
Do you make all your tranactions in cash, while riding a bicycle or walking, in the dark and wearing a disguise? If not, you're not only paying for the collar around your neck, you're an employee for the agency that's doing it. None of this crap is exclusive to bitcoin.
There are no absolutes in this world, but there are very good approximations. Bitcoin anonymity is one of them.
Thanks for the detailed reply Seek.
Again ... please don't delineate me as a BTC Naysayer.
But JFC (I'd spell it out but that would be blasphemy to some) ...that's alot of work just to be left alone.
Isn't the underlying problem an over intrusive,overbearing government.
In perusing the ZeroHedge article about Larry Summers going to bat in support of negative interest rates (i.e. penalizing savers), not only did it seem the height of absurdity .... I think I might be relenting to my previous abeyance to alien conspiracy.
From the vacuous look of Larry Summers face, he might indeed be a colony of aliens.
Please take a moment to understand WHY it was designed like this. It could have been more anonymous but there is a significant give-or-take involved. With the current system of a public blockchain of transactions combined with public-private key encryption, I can independently verify that every Bitcoin I receive is not counterfeit. If I offload that decision process to some blackbox entity, I have to trust them and it defeats the purpose of being decentralized.
+ 1
I like this kind of thinking.
It is easier than that. Create a bitcoin wallet on a non-attributed tablet or phone and use a public wifi hot spot. They can connect the ip address and even the mac address along with the location but that is it that case. Besides you can clone the mac address which should sufficient to keep up the gig. Just don't use the device(s) for anything that could personally identifiable like checking your email or logging into ZH using your user name and pass for example.
Geez, is that all I have to do? Seems really simple... Just what I need, more chores in my life.
Hercean effort! They had that fuckstick under surveillance the second week of operations. They just let him slip the noose around his neck. It's embarrassing how naive you people are about the anonymity of Bitcoin.
Or...they take this big metal pole and break down your door and drag you away.
If they want me, they will get me.
You guys are freakin' paranoid.
Don't all rush to the exit door at once.
"and the Number 1 Holder has been adding (though hasn't added since Feb 2013...)"
Confidence (Game)...lol.
i'm not a numerologist but - i thought that the 1933 prefix of the #1 guy was sort of funny.
this is going to be the funniest thing i've been able to watch since cramer and bear sterns/lehman.
and to think i was very pleased with timing of getting in 9BC @ $500
Hahhah drool stackers!!!! droool!!!!!
I wonder how many of those accounts belong to the federal reserve looking to destabilize a competing currency with some freshly printed funny money.
Yeah, the Fed was into Bitcoins back in 2009, because they are so far ahead of the curve. Next, you're going to tell me the Fed has secretly been acquiring 2000 tons of gold per year since 2008, while selling 20,000 paper tons to keep prices low.
So you don't find it curious that there are multiple accounts accumulating on the same day within minutes of each other. It looks to me like some sheep are about to be shorn.
We saw what happens when a large sale happens with the Twinkle Toe twins there. It rebounded quite nicely and will so again as long as the demand is there. The next real test is going to be a liquidity test if something like 100 million in USD invested in bitcoin cashes out all at once and possibly from on a single exchange. That is something to keep an eye on how it plays out.
nah, I only find it curious that all the clowns here crying for a free market can't see one when it hits them up on the head daily
FED into Bitcoins? noooo. never. call me oldfashioned, but the first theory I'd set up is that secret services worldwide are into it
and it makes perfect sense, since many of them are into illegal (and international) activities in order to fund their "black" operations
bitcoin is perfect for this kind of scope
Are these really individuals who purchase Bitcoin for fiat, or also mining guilds who get them because they mine?
Both. Early accounts will be miners, later accounts will be purchases. Most of what the Winklevoss' own was purchased, if I recall correctly. They're believe to be among the largest holders.
Those damn things are going to go the way of some tulips I have read about.
i think those 8 digits to the right of the . are very interesting
Especially as the . in terms of valuation moves further and further to the right... ;)
i see bell curve
Looks more and more like classic OTC Pump and Dump: Insiders are controling the flow, running the prices up selling to each other or even to themselves and newcomers are waiting for the higher bidder to Sell. Look out when insiders will be cashing out:
Bitcoin vs. Gold: The Future of Money - Peter Schiff Debates Stefan Molyneux
We have a great conversation about Bitcoin between Peter Schiff and Stefan Molyneux. You can find a lot of additional information on Bitcoin from Stefan's video. Everybody decides for themselves where is the Intrinsic Value and where is the Bubble. We are siding with China here - who is buying record amounts of Gold this year with Thailand, Turkey and other Asian countries.
http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/bitcoin-vs-gold-future-of-money-pete...
If the insiders are trading on MtGox, they won't be cashing out anytime soon. In fact, unless there are that many suckers born every minute, I suspect most of the price action on MtGox is people with money stuck there trading back and forth, maybe offloading coins elsewhere for real money.
oh wow another oligarchy how surprising.
stupid humans.
I feel Bitcoin is a parasite on top of a parasite, but for those interested, here is another alternative:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qXhqSy0nbg
Still Report #132 - Quark vs Bitcoin?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw-fAexmBYM
Still Report #133 - Quark vs Gold
Like the name, kinda cheesy...
Bitcoin IS superior as sound money to both physical gold or silver. Explained in the below KL article. Crypto-currencies are the evolution of money. They are not going away either. Once innovation is out there, it is not going away ever.
http://knowmadiclife.com/blog/2013/11/22/bitcoin-vs-gold-as-sound-money
Shill.
No sir, I am a Cryptoztrian. You seem to be an Austriasaur, an endangered species.
If TPTB didn't create them (I believe they did), bit-tulips are just a ponzi, HFT trading vehicle... nothing more.
People also once believed the earth was flat. Good luck with that belief.
The bitcoin mania is just the money-for-nothing scheme of 2013. No different from those who insisted that Infospace would keep doubling every 6 months back in 1999.
"Bitcoin has superior durability to gold."
Thanks for the laugh!
Furthermore, not once in the author's "analysis" is there a mention of any vulnerabilities related to the internet, and how they might impact Bitcoin. Also, while he glances on risks relating to government actions, his conclusion, that "pump and dump" schemes are the greatest threat, further exposes the weakness of his conclusion.
1. Bitcoin keys can exist in physical form as well as digital form concurrently. Can gold or silver do that? Internet is not required.
2. What can any single sovereign government unilaterally do that would kill bitcoin?
To answer your first question, yes, PMs can do that. If one owns bullion in an allocated account, there is a digital representation of the holdings. If the owner chooses to sell bullion, the physical metal need not necessarily be shipped anywhere, as the sale can be recorded and credited digitally.
The answer to your second question is that if the internet were to be compromised on a broad scale, or there are widespread electrical outages, I'd sure as hell rather try to buy something with PMs than a "paper wallet" full of Bitcoin. And if I were a vendor, I know which I would accept.
1. This gold backed digital currency you write of requires a central entity to store the gold. This introduces counter party risk. The risk profile becomes inferior to bitcoin which is completley decentralized not requiring anybody but the two parties involved in the transaction. It also introduces a transaction fee making it a less efficient scheme to bitcoin.
2. If the internet goes out and your PM is stored outside of your possession at a custodian bank or at a third party's vault what value is that PM to you? In that period of internet outage how is it more valuable than physical bitcoin keys in your possession?
Bigtime Gold Bug Bearing has no problem with buying BTC, I bought "just enough to be dangerous". BTC complements gold...
You can carry a flash-drive through TSA easier than a bunch of gold.
Just curious Chen: I have never tried it, but what happens to your flash drive if it's exposed to a very powerful magnet?
I'm not referring to gold-backed digital currency, although that is an interesting (and potentially superior) alternative to BC. I'm talking about owning physical bullion, coupled with the ability to buy/sell digitally, which currently happens all over the world. Transaction fees are worth discussing, but not until BC is actually adopted and accepted widely.
If the internet goes out, it is obviously still possible to travel, so why would you imagine that bullion in a vault would be inaccessible? Also, who says that all bullion would be held in a vault? If you can't understand why PMs would be of greater value than BC during an internet outage, then I don't really see the point of discussing the matter further.
So you want to recreate what BTC is now already offering to you by adding new counter party risk and converting the backing into matter which has physical limitations bitcoin does not have. I say go for it. Let that and the BTC network exist and let users decide. That is the beauty of the free market. Must....love....gold.....at......all......costs....... I used to be a gold bug too. I understand how painful it is. I feel for you because you are still in that dark place of denial I was once in.
Resorting to ad hominem attacks exposes your core argument for what it is.
Cool. Hey can you just remind me between bitcoin and gold which of these two can I use as money now? Also, which has been a better store of wealth since bitcoin was created in 2009? If something is used as a medium of exchange and is a superior store of wealth we must reject it as inferior money. If something is not used as a medium of exchange and is an inferior store of wealth we must accept it as superior money. Keep this up and you might just win a nobel prize in economics!
Once again, John, when the going gets tough, your arguments tend to fall apart. The multiple of individuals and entities that would accept gold as payment right now vs. BC is astronomical.
Using Bitcoins' rise in value since 2009 in an effort to argue that it is a better store of wealth than gold is so pathetic that no serious response is required.
I did not ask WOULD, I asked CAN. Please direct me to merchants where I can use gold as money. Is gold really money if I cannot use it as money? Well, if something has increased in value by 80,000% since it began to exist versus something else that has been flat at best over the same time period, I know which one I am happy I owned during that time period. Sorry for your loss Tinky. At least you can talk tough on ZH to ease the pain of fighting the market and losing for so long.
Your parochialism is remarkable. There are millions of merchants around the world who happily accept gold as payment for goods – vastly more than those which accept BC.
The fact that you resort to boasting about being an early adopter to BC (assuming that is actually the case), and that your returns have been spectacular, is utterly irrelevant to any meaningful comparison between BC and gold. That you are blinded by your purported near-term paper profits speaks volumes.
I have lost nothing, and that you would suggest that I have further solidifies your growing reputation on ZH as a BC shill.
It's a shame, because you have offered some useful insights in the past.
Cool. Hey can you please send me a link to these merchants that will accept my gold as payment for the goods they are selling? In the meantime, here is a list of 12,000 merchants that will accept my bitcoin as payment for the goods they are selling. Definately if I can use bitoin as money it IS NOT money. Thanks for educating me on that.
https://bitpay.com/directory#/
Having exhausted the ad hominem route, you decide to try your luck with strawman arguments? Excellent.
Oh, and just in case it was unintentional on your part, note that I never said, nor suggested that bitcoin can't be, or isn't being used as currency.
Great! Then we agree bitcoin is sound money. It was enjoyable conversing with you sir.
First, your link is not good. the https (secure) leads it to an unusable page.
So, I just typed in http://bitpay.com and started reading. All sounds good, until you get to the bottom of the home page, where the "plans" are shown. Everything is priced for 30 days. $0 with 1% transaction fee. Then, 0% transaction fee, $30, $300 and $3000.
Seems odd to me that the payment processor wants fiat greenbacks in large amounts, instead of transacting in bitcoin. A real turn-off to me and, secondly, the link to merchants brings up the same page as your original link, but shows NO MERCHANTS.
Maybe one has to be a member or something, but, were I a merchant, I would surely like the merchant listings to be shown to prospective customers.
Bottom line: Very turned off at bitpay. will never use it or recommend it, and, John___Connor, your cred is shat.
Good for you. While you were turned off since you wrote that btc is up another $150. Hey, I'm sure there were bitter guys riding horses around for years after eveyrone else was driving cars. I mean, they were right proclaiming how horses had thousands of years of use giving them value over these dangerous fangled machines that make a lot of noise with technology they didn't understand. I'll stick with my shat creed over your horse and buggy buddy. With that I leave you. PS. I have NOT looked at the price of silver today, again, like I used to for years taking that knife twisting from the Fed smash downs. Sorry buddy.
You are a genuis. Obviously, don't follow a thousands of year history, go with since 2009 invented by a mystery man and backed by????
Jump on that trend.
Just don't use a bullshit comparision of horses & buggies to automobiles for gold to bitcoins.
Gold ETFs to bitcoins, maybe. Real physical I am holding it gold? Please don't make me laugh.
Physical to physical and imaginary to imaginary please.
and while you think this is good it is in fact very bad.
If I was a merchant pricing goods in btc I'd be HORRIFIED at such a move and change all my prices OR shut down my store.
if I was a holder of btc and saw volatility exceeding 3% PER YEAR I'd be HORRIFIED and consider this NO GOOD as money.
In fact if I see more than 10% volatility in this so-called "currency" then it has NO VALUE to me as money. None. up or down. Instead it can only form a trading arbitrage strategy with time-series calculations to get MONEY that is something else using BTC as a trading vehicle.
Trading vehicles make POOR, poor money because they are unstable, bring in suckers and have NO store of value.
The more you brag about how fast it goes up the more I am right and the more you are wrong.
AGQ calls will go up MASSIVELY by 2016 / jan, which is why I'll get 2016/jan calls, and have 2015/jan calls already. They'll go up high but not as high.
They aren't MONEY. They will GET me currency, law of the land, dollars, which I will use to GET MONEY which is silver, gold & anything else of barter value like booze, smokes, pills, tools, computer parts (chosen carefully), etc.
The graphics card of the day may get out-dated by the time I need to barter but the power supply probably won't!
..."Please direct me to merchants where I can use gold as money."
I am a business owner and I began accepting gold and silver in 2002. I also accept federal reserve notes, equipment, bitcoin and anything I might choose to accept on a whim. I have owned and operated businesses since 1980. In 1983 I belonged to a national barter organization where we exchanged barter bucks. If you look hard, you might be surprised at how many businesses will accept gold.
For those that are going to ask, I am not willing to disclose any personal info in ZH.
right now, using goldmoney or europac, ALL merchants accept gold IMMEDIATELY.
gold/silver. I am. Not btc.
Dark places of denial exist for people who have beliefs. I dont believe anything except four things, I exist, I remember, I think and I observe - everything else is just a possibility.
When I understood BTC I knew it was money, and I knew it would be valued as money - thats all there is to it.
if that were true I'd be using it. I'm not. Because it isn't.
John: do you have insurance? If so, why? Insurance has a lot of "counter party risk", ask AIG. You fail to see gold as it really is: an insurance policy against montary degradation. Do you think that all governments will never degrade their currency? I just do not see bitcoin fulfilling that capacity. I am not a "gold bug" either, but I most certainly do not trust any government to maintain soundness of it's currency. History backs me up in that regard. By-the-way, bitcoin does have a "physical" limitation, as only so many can be "mined", correct? And I am not saying they can't be sub-divided into smaller and smaller amounts, ie. like .000001.
NO, btc is failing to re-create what already exists now - electronic trading of bullion - but adds flaws like network requirements. BTC can be taken over by network control yet gold bullion can NOT.
Bullion has physical STRENGTHS, not limitations and bitcoin has NONE of them. Not one physical property of gold is a weakness. BTC would be stronger for sharing them & because it doesn't share them it is weak & dangerous.
no, it requires a transmission network and ANY NUMBER of entities to ship gold between each other OR if customers happen to be of the same vault then to allocate name by name to match the transaction.
In a period of outage gold & silver in HAND will do the trick which is why so many have stated: if you can't hold it you DON'T OWN IT.
My gold & silver are in hand.
internet IS required.
Until you can use the internet to validate transactions there are NONE.
Worthless.
#2 ONE law making bitcoin illegal would destroy most of its values. ALL the fiat exchanges would go down, ALL merchants would go down, there'd only be back-alley deals using smartphones (which are all snooped) to try to recover some of the losses. 80% losses to 99% losses.
dollars, tide, cocaine, pot, booze, smokes, whatever could be had at any low low price of btc would be had & no one would touch btc ever again.
The people talk about fiat currencies backed up by nothing. If BC is so superior, what backs it up? Nothing?
What is backing up gold? Have you even bothered to ask yourself? Gold is backed up by a unique code of electrons, protons and neutrons as defined by natural law, chemistry. it is this code which no human or group of humans can copy or destroy that gives gold it's scarcity and therefore subjective value in the minds of the actors in the economy. Bitcoin is also backed up by a unique code of letters and numbers as defined by natural law, math. It is this code which no human or group of humans can copy or destroy that gives bitcoin it's scarcity and therefore subjective valuation in the minds of the actors in the economy.
We heard you the first thousand times you posted this same exact thing.
No need to spam us over and over again.
Oh gee sorry for having an educated opinion I want to share with other people to possibly help them to make better financial decisions. Please forgive me for no longer having an emotional attachment to gold.
Educated????????????????????
Ok guys. I am outta here I have to go figure out what to do with all this wealth BTC has brought me. I guess you guys will be the last to know, bitter remenemts until the end. It kind of reminds me of when I used to be a stock broker. There was this one analyst who did crazy research on this one company. His research was second to none. He was ubber bullish but the stock kept going down and down and down. One day in frustration he pounded his fist on the table and declared, "God dammit the damn market is wrong!" Haha.
The problem with all money-for-nothing schemes is that they are by definition con games. They work as long as the confidence can be maintained in the next greater fool. When the confidence breaks (and it always does because it's money for nothing), your wealth will evaporate very quickly.
For the record I am completely agnostic to the pros and cons of BTC. I think it has value and a place.
But doesn't it kind of feel like you're communicating with the "Stepford Wives" or the FemBots in these exchanges?
Geez
Yeah, and one has the profound benefit of several thousand years of widespread use and acceptance, and a near a priori perception that it has significant intrinsic value. Gold also has other utility.
The horse and buggy as transportion had thousands of years of widespread use and acceptance when the automobile was invented. Horses have other utilities too. Do you ride a horse today?
If you're going to attempt to buttress your argument with an analogy, I'd suggest that you choose them more carefully. The notion that gold is somehow outdated as money, collateral, or a store of value, is laughable on its face.