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Presenting The BitKillers: These Are The Richest Holders Of Bitcoin
The top holder of Bitcoins is the unlikely named 1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a with 111,111 units of the crypto-currency (up from 40,000 units in the summer of 2011) for a total value over $110 million. Perhaps most interesting is these 100 Bitcoin holders represent over 20% of the entire outstanding amount of the alternative currency.
The following 100 Holders represent 2.23 million Bitcoins of the 11.12 million total oustanding currently...
(click image for full list)
and the Number 1 Holder has been adding (though hasn't added since Feb 2013...)
And the concentration of Bitcoins has fallen from its early incarnation highs but has been static for recent months...
Source: BitcoinRichList
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It is outdated, you just are not aware of it yet. Human innovation has brought us a superior sound money option to gold and silver. This is why users of BTC as money are increasing every day and users of gold as money are not. Maybe you don't like the fact that economic goods evolve over time to compete for our consumption. Perhaps you shoud just use a black and white TV then, to protect that belief.
LOL! Yeah, it's outdated, which is why China and Russia are spending enormous sums of money to acquire huge amounts of it, and why Central Banks continue to hold massive amounts, and increasingly insist on storing it in their home territories. Billions of individuals around the world also use it as a primary store of value.
Really, John, while you make some good, narrow points, your conclusion is ludicrous.
Outdated? Presumably the Chinese haven't received the memo...
"China increased the import of gold through Hong Kong last month, according to the latest data from the Hong Kong Census and Statistics Department sent to Reuters. The gross gold import in the month of October came in at 147,92 tonnes, of which 131,19 tons remained as net import. China has imported more than 100 tonnes of gold each month in the past six months, way more than in previous years."
Gold is not outdated, it is still the premium store of value. However BTC presents a fluid and sound money that is a store of value, though not as superlative as gold.
BTC is superior in every way excepting store of value, but it is still a very solid store of value and rates well in that regard. Gold will never be outdated until we can create it artificially for very low cost.
LOL! If it's outdated how come it hasn't been removed?
By definition what's out-dated is GONE.
What's NOT gone is not outdated.
My cell phone isn't "out-dated" even though it's a 5 year old flip phone.
It doesn't get viruses, doesn't get firmware updates without my permission, doesn't have a GPS in it to report my location precisely to other parties & it doesn't cost $900. In fact it cost me NOTHING and the prepay plan costs me $21/month.
I know people who ride horses daily, for a living, and it's not racing them. Best possible way to herd cattle. You must live in a city.
if you want true offroad performance, you better. Doesn't need gasoline & can go where no vehicle can.
Gold is backed up with 5,000+ years of history.
So is Syphilis
You're missing something: the math has no intrinsic value to benefit each of us but the atoms & electrons in gold do, as do silver, each for unique purposes. What backs gold is how USEFUL those things are. What doesn't back bitcoin is that it's no more "math" to us than is everything else in the universe & quite a lot of that stuff isn't useful at all though it's all mathematical from the expansion of space to the mass of what makes up pocket-lint.
When the lights go off, I rather have a gold bar in my hand than a usb drive
I for one would rather have Heidi Klum. Physical not crypto-virtual.
I'd settle for little Denise Richards and Jessica Alba action myself - I'd be applying something more substantial than a 'thumb drive', and the lights could stay off as long as they liked.
It's Sophie Reade for me, OMG.
you have no idea then how handy those thumb vibrators are aka fyuku. Trust me.
You can use several at a time without impeding other "progress"
TRUST me.
superior ability to be wiped out by a solar flare: check
superior ability to be snooped by NSA algos on windows computers & similar corrupted phones which are the majority: check
superior ability to be removed at a whim by banks who actually own the exchange accounts used for btc-USD and btc-EUR and other fiats? check
wow, I can't believe I'm missing out on this amazing superiority!
LOL
I wonder how close this is to real life hidden super rich.
'1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a' still owes me a sammich for when his truck was towed.
1MtazCwSUV52AvWofe2QX5hM4SACG689CX
Donations for helping people that are owed sammich's get a real sammich...
:)
Blockchain reports that as a valid address with 0 bitcoin -- do you have control over this addy? If so I can fund it a little.
The Central Bank of DoChenRollingBearing received a starter quantity of BTC from this source. No strings were attached, other than a suggestion to venture forth, play with it and learn. A starter quantity is more than you might think to experiment with.
Highly recommended.
Sure enough I'm a member of the bank of DCRB, thanks DCRB and seek . Already doubled mine doing some online btc poker at. (no buyin required - free .001btc tnys every hour, was .01btc only 7 days ago.).
https://satoshipoker.org/register/LuckyAnt
With USD/BTC rate going up so much its been a total pain to get to my current interim goal of .1btc.
l8r,
OldE
1FcuSYzb7EZREsBvAmQ298z6DDpxfwQZam
Hey OldE, I registeres into Satoshi Power with your referral link. You should see some credits
I'm a terrible poker player, but wanted to see what it was all about.;-)
You are correct seek. I just opened my first wallet up a few days ago. Thanks for the kind offer!
Sent! And if you're in that dire straights for a sandwich, pizza, or wings: http://pizzaforcoins.com/
I think I sent enough to feed a family of four pizza for at least a couple days, if not more ;)
Damn Seek!!! Thank you very much! Let me know how I can make it up to you. I just opened up a Coinbase Merchant account for accepting BtCs for our small business. Just got it posted on the Angie's List profile. (ANGI)
They said they have NEVER heard of another contractor publically accepting Bitcoins.
You are welcome! Just paying forward some coins I got here nearly a year ago, no making up required. Obviously they've appreciated a little since then!
Good luck on your bitcoin endeavors.
Thanks man. Yes, it's very exciting. At this point I can't afford to invest in an FX sense, but I hope I can market some hand made wood coffee tables & chopping blocks that I've worked on for some extra cash. When I get the site up, I'll send you one.
"http://pizzaforcoins.com/"
Great, leverage the bitcoin angle and then also separate yourself from the morons at Pizza Hut that just earned huge bad publicity for firing a manager for not forcing his employees to work on TDay....
Hmm, so you lookup somebody's wallet address and can see what they have and all their transactions. No very anonymous eh?
Who is willwork4food? What's his address? What's the balance in his wallet? (We only know the balance for a single transaction to one of many millions of possible addresses in his wallet.)
Pretty anonymous. If the authorities had you bank account number, they'd know exactly who you were and your entire account balance, plus your entire transaction history. Willwork4food could have a million in bitcoins in his wallet and you'd never know, nor would will you ever know everything he's ever spent it on. You can just follow that 0.1 bitcoin through the economy and nothing more from the address.
hey seek do you mind if I post my address? I will send whatever you sent me back to you. I just want to get a clue how to use this thing.
Go right ahead -- been waiting for it. Tell you what, keep 90% of what I send you.
LXLmCv3JpYTynYuUCgXJo4Eat2VuBEWkET
I'm going to send it (all) back to you man. I appreciate the help.
I think that's a litecoin address, not a bitcoin. If you have a bitcoin address, I can send, but I don't have a litecoin wallet.
yes it is, someone else told me litecoin was a good way to go. okay, where should I go to download a bitcoin wallet? I will do it right now. It only took 2 mins to download the litecoin wallet.
blockchain.info
Litecoin is/was a good speculative play, considering you could have 6X the money if you bought last week, lol.
Bitcoin wallets: http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet
I recommend multibit at the moment. I use bitcoin-qt, but that's industrial strength and it downloads the entire blockchain, which will take hours to a day. Multibit is quicker. I think DoChen is using it too, so he might have tips.
Hey Seek how''s this?
1EQmnfZcUc2HKuXK9YeKqoVM42nbTzmY89
Much better!
If you want to send them back (no need to!) send to 15Vnf2WsDLiwfKfE8odhYUHkxWTTzM4vBC
Okay thanks man. I am checking now to see it hit (I feel like a neanderthal who accidentally rubbed two sticks together and started a fire).
It's got 2 confirmations already, 6 is "official" and that should happen in < 10 minutes.
Okay I see it says "out of sync" and it is currently synchronizing with network. Hopefully should be done soon.
Cool stuff seek. Thanks so much for the help.
I think multibit takes a few minutes to sync, v. bitcoin-qt's hours and hours. Right at the very end of the sync it'll pick up the last block that has the transfer to you in it, and you should see 0.1 BTC appear in your wallet.
Hey I went with multibit but was was having an issue, so went with QT, which is why it is taking so long. It was moving fast at first, but yeah you are right, now it is slowing down. It's just shy of 11pm my time. I am going to hang around for a bit. It does look like it will be a few hours. Once I see them I will let you know.
Oh dear god! Bitcoin-qt is a fine wallet (it's the reference for all wallets) but seriously, you're looking at a day or more. The total filesize of my bitcoin-qt directory is 23 gigabytes.
You got a wait on your hands now. I think you may be committed (sorry, not up to speed if multibit or whatever will import from bitcoin-qt before it's initialized.)
okay, forget that. I am going to delete that file. Can you undo that transaction? I had a stupid issue with java when I went with multibit. I will fix the issue with java and go with multi bit.
thank you two for an example of why bitcoin is still such a bitch. seek- i applaud your attitude and helpfulness. i nominate you as my bit-buddy. if and when i ever open a wallet i will send you some satoshi's as my first experiment. for the moment i will just enjoy my "numesmatic" btc.
This is precisly the Bullshit I have experience too, which kept me from understanding the concept. Those that were smarter than I..well, God bless them.
I had no problem with Blockchain.
seek I got the multibit up and running.
17VRawdg6mfSazBH3fC9iRNHzT82r9aPW
I'm sending a very small amount. I sent 0.1 BTC to the other address. See if you can undelete or recover the bitcoin-qt files, since that wallet has the private key to $95 in it. I'll send 0.01 btc to this one.
Edit: check that address, it's failing the error check.
Nooo!
there's no undo! If you delete, the 0,1 bitcoin ($95) is gone forever!
Don't delete! See if you can import the wallet into another app.
General rule of thumb with bitcoin: never delete anything.
dude you gotta be kidding me.
Send me an email. fonzyfonzanoon@yahoo.com
I will send you $95. This is ridiculous. You can't stop a transaction that has not been completed? I am heppy to send you $95. I appreciate all your help and and will just call the $95 my dues.
No need, these are my pay it forward bitcoins. I just wanted you to have the full 0.1 BTC. "Lost" money is deflationary (e.g. it just raises the value of other bitcoins in circulation.)
Once a transaction is in the blockchain, it's irreversible. It's one of the features of bitcoin that's attractive to merchants, since there's nothing similar to a chargeback.
Check your trash folder -- if the wallet.dat file is there, this is recoverable, I think.
As seek said (and at his initial suggestion), I went with Multibit. I really did not know what I was doing either (loved your metaphor about the Neanderthal and his two sticks). Along the way, the computer told me to download Java as well. Oracle owns Java so I did not feel threatened (much).
All of my transactions (payments and receipts) have taken between 30 seconds and two hours, depending on what I do not know.
Hey Seek I think I recovered it. Okay. I will give that one a day and see if it hit. I will check the multibit address in the am as well and whatever comes to each address will come back to you.
More importantly I am going to help an old lady across the street tomorrow (i'm not even kidding) and when she thanks me she is really thanking you.
OK, you may be able to import the bitcoin-qt wallet into multibit to speed it up.
You need to check the address you posted on the multibit wallet since it isn't a valid address, maybe a character is missing?
17xVRawdg6mfSazBH3fC9iRNHzT82r9aPW
Maybe I missed something but that should be it. Don't sweat it if you don't want to send anything. I would not blame you. Thanks so much for the time you spent. Anyway you and Dochen etc have a good night. I am toast. Will check in early am.
Yup, that one worked. Looks like the one up top was missing the "x" after 17.
I just sent 0.01 BTC to that one.
Everything I'm reading on bitcoin-qt says the blockchain has to finish loading before you can get it to export the key within bitcoin-qt, but there are other apps that can do it. If it's downloading the blockchain OK I'd say not to screw with it and you can just send it to yourself at your multibit address tomorrow.
okay thanks man i will send an update in the am.
Hey seek fyi I see the transaction into the multibit account. ($11.58). I tried to send it back to you but got the message "can only send confirmed transactions. Also, seller must pay a fee for the transaction". I think the transaction is confirmed. It does not specify anything about the fee.
The other wallet is still synchronizing. I will keep checking.
Awesome. You probably just need to wait on the confirmations before sending -- the fees are variable, but I know bitcoin-qt is preferring 0.0005 at the moment, but even with zero the transaction will eventually go through.
that's rich. Bitcoin jumps from 5 to 200 to 500 to 900 down to 500 up to 1100 and soon down to 50 and you call LITECOIN a "speculative play".
Your brain is wired funny.
Remember went it went from over 30 or over 60 down to 3?
You gonna refuse to call bitcoin a speculative play when it drops from 1100 to 11?
NO, anonymous means that no one can get any balance at any time but the owner. Transactions do not require you to know the total balance: just the amount for trade at that time.
This is the worst of all possible outcomes.
Please. Critical thinkers have become very rare these days.
The "powers that be" created bitcoin to trick people into accepting a digital fiat currency... 100% trackable and controllable. Paper fiat cash has anonymity, bitcoin does not. Do not be fooled. This is all about control.
This government regulation nonsense is all a shit-show and diversion.
Ben Bernanke himself said bitcoin has potential... the MSM features and promotes bitcoin almost daily... the government could easily ban bitcoin and make it illegal... they have not. These are all signs that it was created by TPTB.
TPTB do not want the sheeple to have/believe in Au and Ag. They do not want you to possess real money with real intrinsic value... only traceable electronic digits.
You bitcoin believers need to wake the fuck up.
You're right, the same geniuses behind the F-35, ObamaCare website and that multi-billion dollar military data warehousing software that doesn't work are secretly geniuses that created bitcoin.
+ 1
Excellent rebuttal.
Nope... totally different, but nice try.
Go back and rebut all the things I've stated. Truth is, you can't.
As the Bernnak is saying bitcoin has potential, I be running, fast, in the other direction.
hahaha none of them have had a transaction in over six months. looks like all the talk of merchants accepting bitcoin is just another tool for these guys to get out (slowly). these guys are geniuses, and the people buying fools. i can see buying if you think there's a greater fool right behind you, though. so they might go up more. many will lose their shirts to these few big holders. wouldn't it be incredible if uncle sam is behind this, and it's a tax ponzi scheme? i woudn't be surprised. the whole story of a mysterious btc inventor is genius. man, what fools to touch this.
In fact, I am going to assume BTC is a "gullibility tax".
Might as well tax the last frontier--emotions. In the process, transfer purchasing power to an ex(?) banker like Max Keiser or the Harvard boys at the expense of these poor (literally) nerds who didn't have high reproduction value to begin with. Now they have no hope. Gulibility tax = kinder, gentler eugenics.
I don't live in a bunker or believe any of what I just wrote, but something smells like shit around btc.
@Devo-I'm a merchant and I've just signed up with Bitcoin as accepted payment for services. I post the $USD amount I want and don't care what the BtC fractional is. I get paid what I want in Btcoins and it's automatically transfered to USD the same day. I don't want to speculate...Yet. I'm not as smart as Yen Cross with his FX mastery. Hell, I bet Yen Cross trades it.
The(My) whole point is to capture the market that is out there..and it's getting larger by the month.
Post your shop on Coinmap.org for some free advertising, maybe even to reddit.com/r/bitcoin they often applaud new merchants over there, too.
no, the whole point is to unseat dollar so there is no exchange in fiat.
Otherwise you could just as easily use any other fiat-transfer scheme.
BTC can't unseat dollars unless the trade is btc for goods with no translation at all to euro, yen, dollars.
TULIPS0101TULIPS0100101011000TULIPS011001010TULIPS...TULIPSTULIPSTULIPS
Max Keiser?
Come on Down!!!!
Why should Max Keiser even grace you with his presence? He's up hundreds fold while you are still clanging away at a keyboard in your mom's basement.
The Bitcoin Channel
Bitcoin exhange robbed in Denmark (or was it the owner himself?)
http://politiken.dk/oekonomi/virksomheder/ECE2143335/cyber-kriminelle-roever-dansk-firma/
the wild west had its share of bank robberies for sure... bitcoin is safe, but the human condition isn't
For those knowledgeable about bitcoin, how would one spend $110 million bucks worth of bitcoins ???
At one of the 20 stores who accept them (though, you would think you could just buy all those stores outright) or very slowly to the suckers trying to get in on this bubble.
its a wonderful new 'thing' isn't it.... nothing beats it in international money exchange. So many cool little foreign shops pop up using it that it is a truely excellent time. Why stackers sit and hate I'll never know
live in the present for a change fuckers
Stackers hate fraud, not bitcoin.
So long as bitcoin activity is going along with ponzi fraud you made your own bed.
"Live in the present"
that time is crazy people on LSD dancing at the cliff side pretending they can walk on rainbows.
No thanks.
Duh.....the Wall Street way. Strippers and coke dude. :)
Hookers and blow, but the blow dude is in prison !!!
With that kind of money, you could buy anything. There would be no shortage of people willing to handle the acquisition for a small percentage.
There'd be no way to receive it without prison for money laundering.
At BitPremeir.com
As PT Barnum once said: "there's a sucker born every minute".
Interesting to see multiple wallets collecting within minutes of each other, with almost exactly the same amounts.
Addresses are free to make for everybody, same with sending coins to those addresses. People might splitting up their hoard in case any single wallet becomes compromised. If you had $millions in gold, would you store it all in 1 place?
I understand that, and no, I wouldn't keep all my Gold in one place if I had any.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skU-jBFzXl0
Everyone'll find out soon enough what they're really worth.
Does anyone know where I can see a MtGox order book Live , with actual orders.
There are a couple but they are not live. You wud think Mt Gox would provide one .
I use Bitcoin Wisdom. It doesn't go very deep in the book but it is current. There are also trading programs like GoxGui that go into much more detail.
here you are best live trading platform for BTC ( open Source Code)
http://ac.com.au/download/btc/QtBitcoinTrader-master.zip
I honestly hope BitCoin just keeps going up and never crashes, I like the anonymity and seeing worthless fiat get a bit of competition but it's not going to take long for a few of these key people to figure out they have winning lottery tickets with an expiration date and are going to cash out their positions. Then it's going to be a rush for the exits by everyone.
They can also liquidate portions slowly and carefully without terribly damaging the market. If they wish to maximize fiat received, they would do it that way.
As many people have pointed out, the BTC system can be replicated over and over. Risk can be distributed across many new crypto currencies.
Even if the new currencies are never used in transactions for real things, and only exist on exchanges - they will still represent a store of value, and the wealth will increasingly be distributed across a range of the most acceptable ones.
Crypto currency is not going away, it is in fact taking over.
Plug 2 computers together and you've got your own pirvate Internet.
Doesn't mean anybody cares.
it's not & can't. The real economy requires tangible goods & reliable services.
Money is ONE of those things.
Reliable debt is strongly attached to the other.
Cryptocurrency can't do either.
I love Luddites who have strong opinions about Bitcoin even though they have no idea what the fuck it really is.
And I love that these clueless ones have been bashing it since 2 bucks. Misery loves company....
The Bitcoin Channel
As a comparison: World governments own about 17% of all gold ever mined...
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/world/gold/gold.html
All I've learned is that there are a few people who could cash in on BTC and increase their wealth a la USD.
Good for them, if they do.
What is clear is not only the mania, but the neglect of the maniacs to recognize that "currency" is only a piece of what ails us.
It (currency) also happens to be the piece that is most likely to be ultimately (continued to be) controlled by forces -- legitimate ones too -- that alternative currencies cannot touch.
You can't fix a broken economy with a new currency, and you can't fix a society when the controlling forces do not care about such things.
I disagree with your conclusion that sound money is just one 'factor' - certainly law and information are other prime factors, but fraudulent currency is the foundation of everything wrong with our world.
The entire system of control is based on debt, which is based on currency. Debt instruments that cannot extinguish debt - coupled with unlimited expansion and compound interest.
If wealth simply moves out of their system, which it is beginning to do - then they will not have the tax incomes and interest incomes they rely on to maintain control of resources. Additionally the regulation and law they impose to maintain corporate power will be evaded.
BTC may not be the solution, because it is not entirely anonymous, but soon innovation will either make BTC anonymous, or a new truly anonymous currency will come - and that will mean the slaves can simply sidestep their systems of control, and they will be left with nothing.
We only agree that they own land and resources, and that agreement is ultimately based on the legal system that supports their currencies. Crypto will expose that law as fraud, and all wealth generated by it as theft - then people will no longer agree with their control and ownership.
BTC is NOT anonymous that is probably the biggest lie of all revolving around BTC,
Given that the block chain is 'public' and given that advanced data-mining algo's have already reversed back all transactions, and given all shopping is to public's ID's, ... that its quite easy to 'map' back to everyone that uses, buys, or transacts on BTC.
To suggest that it is 'anonymous' shows that your either ignorant or a liar.
NO, the entire system of control is based on involuntary FORCE and deception.
Bad currency forced on people is a PRODUCT of that violence (guns) and deception (fraud about value of the currency, fraud about the value of previous currencies, fraud about history itself to re-write economic texts and to erase history or teach people they should ignore it).
What you are seeing is a secondary output.
Agreement IS NOT THE PROBLEM.
Until the people are fully armed equal or greater to the government that is oppressing them or is about to do so, nothing can change. This is a battle of weapons at its core.
One of the contradictions you focus on is that between the use and exchange value of a commodity. Why is this contradiction so fundamental to capitalism, and why do you use housing to illustrate it?
All commodities have to be understood as having a use value and exchange value. If I have a steak the use value is that I can eat it and the exchange value is how much I had to pay for it.
But housing is very interesting in this way because as a use value you can understand it as shelter, privacy, a world of affective relations with people, a big list of things you use a house for. But then there is the question of how you get the house. At one time houses were built by people themselves and there was no exchange value at all. Then from the 18th century onwards you got speculative house building – Georgian terraces which were built and sold later on. Then houses became exchange values for consumers in the form of saving. If I buy a house and I pay down the mortgage on it, I can end up owning the house. So I have an asset. I therefore become very concerned about the nature of the asset. This generates interesting politics – ‘not in my backyard’, ‘I don’t want people moving in next door who don’t look like me’. So you start to get segregation in housing markets because people want to protect the value of their savings.
Then about thirty years ago people began to use housing as a form of speculative gain. You could get a house and ‘flip’ it …. [which in turn can cause bubbles, said Harvey]. Then all of a sudden a lot of people find they can’t have the use value of the housing anymore because the exchange value system has destroyed it.
Which raises the question, is it a good idea to allow use value in housing, which is crucial to people, be delivered by a crazy exchange value system? This is not only a problem with housing but with things like education and healthcare. In many of these we’ve released the exchange value dynamics in the theory that it’s going to provide the use value but frequently what it does is it screws up the use values and people don’t end up getting good healthcare, education or housing. This is why I think it’s very important to look at that distinction between use and exchange value…..
You have said often recently that one of the things we should be doing on the left is engaging our postcapitalist imagination, starting to ask the question of what a postcapitalist world would look like. Why is that so important? And, in your view, what would a postcapitalist world look like?It is important because it has been drummed into our heads for a considerable period of time that there is no alternative. One of the first things we have to do is to think about the alternative in order to move towards its creation.
The left has become so complicitous with neoliberalism that you can’t really tell its political parties from right-wing ones except on national or social issues. In political economy there is not much difference. We’ve got to find an alternative political economy to how capitalism works, and there are some principles. That’s why contradictions are interesting. You look at each one of them like, for instance, the use and exchange value contradiction and say – ‘the alternative world would be one where we deliver use values’. So we concentrate on use values and try to diminish the role of exchange values.
Or on the monetary question – we need money to circulate commodities, no question about it. But the problem with money is that it can be appropriated by private persons. It becomes a form of personal power and then a fetish desire. People mobilise their lives around searching for this money even when nobody knows that it is. So we’ve got to change the monetary system - either tax away any surpluses people are beginning to get or come up with a monetary system which dissolves and cannot be stored, like air miles.
But in order to do that you’ve also got to overcome the private property-state dichotomy and come to a common property regime. And, at a certain point, you need to generate a basic income for people because if you have a form of money that is anti-saving then you need to guarantee people. You need to say, ‘you don’t need to save for a rainy day because you’ll always be getting this basic income no matter what’. You’ve got to give people security that way rather than private, personal savings. By changing each one of these contradictory things you end up with a different kind of society, which is much more rational than the one we’ve got. What happens right now is that we produce things and then we try to persuade consumers to consume whatever we’ve produced, whether they really want it or need it. Whereas we should be finding out what people’s basic wants and desires are and then mobilising the production system to produce that. By eliminating the exchange value dynamic you can reorganise the whole system in a different kind of way. We can imagine the direction that a socialist alternative would move in as it breaks from this dominant form of capital accumulation, which runs everything today. [David Harvey, 2013]
"I can end up owning the house. So I have an asset" That was where you went off track, as a house is NEVER an "asset", unless you are renting it out for more than the expenses you incur owning it. That is Accounting 101. Gold isn't really an "asset" as well, since it doesn't have any rate of return, per se. Gold is a store-house of value/wealth, as well as being an "insurance policy" against montary depreciation. That's how gold would fit into Accounting 101.
just like a trader: to think flipping properties in a bubble ONLY started just 30 years ago.
Wow. You need to check out what happened in the past 200 years.
The economy isnt broken. The economy has been poisoned with monetary polonium for the last hundred years.
Our economy is actually so strong is still got a faint heartbeat even after sufering the FED for over 100 years.
Arafat and Murphy lasted what days.
Remove the monetary polonium.... patient makes a miraculous recovery.
ala Iceland.
Iceland is still horribly broken. Are you kidding?
Yeah. That's a safe currency. Haha.
Store of value that.
Not at all like an illiquid option.
Dutch Tulips without the risk of fungus, but wait....
I think it's grown out of the tulip stage so +1 for originality. However, it could very well be in a bubble. You should probably not mingle any of your precious bennybux into those unpredictable BTCs.
You don't "grow out of" the tulip-phase. it's the LAST phase & then it's over.
The rise from 200 to 400 to 1200 with smack-downs of -50% is the tulip-phase.
Hey can any of you bitcoin lovers give me your take on this.
The CIA was interested in Bitcoin close to the beginning, and had a friendly meeting with the masterminds. Do you not think they had a meeting after that little talk discussing how they could use it to their advantage? My humble opinion is that the meeting went something like this: “So wait we can just put a few super computers on this thing and get tons of them for free without changing the market, ok Bob you do that. Ok Tim, just to be safe, buy as many bitcoins as you can into as many wallets as you can, I don’t care if it goes from 50 cents to 9 dollars or to 1000 dollars for that matter. We can get appropriations to throw a hundred mil at our little scheme no problem. Anonymous they must be kidding, this is too easy”
They could be half the people on this list and thousands of other bitcoin wallets. This is what they do. I know you feel that you have outsmarted them but I have a strange feeling you haven’t.
They could have gotten tons of bitcoins for free mining and the lions share of this tiny market, 50, 60, 80 or 90% and because of the anonymity no one would know the wiser. With a market share like that they could do whatever they wanted at times of low liquidity which compared to some markets the gov deals in, is all the time on MTgox. I don’t think this is the a conspiracy theory, its only what I would do in their shoes, if for nothing else for a little safe keeping control. I think the shock and awe destruction will come.
The Gov talking nice about Bitcoin threw me off for about two secs (see yahoo story Gov Agencies see Benefit in Bitcoin), but then I realized that if they had control, they could crush it say it had some good points and again lay in wait. Then a few years from now when they think the time is right, or in case of a dollar crisis, they could introduce the US gov E-currency, and say it has some bit coin features but new and improved with gov backing. This was a theory until I saw the E Dollar story on yahoo (There is an E Currency that could save the Economy but Its not the Bitcoin). Find that story and tell me its not 1913, 1933, 1971 all over again.
If you want to see what the Gov does when they are threatened by a currency remember what happened with the Liberty Dollar. Don’t say you have not been warned. It’s not bad to never make the million dollars on a speculation; it’s pretty hard when you lose it. Sell, at least a chunk and be happy
3 clues you lack, but I'll deal with one. Liberty dollar was not decentalized peer to peer. Go and learn what that means.
The Bitcoin Channel
@fiftybagger, your comment doesn't touch what I discussed. I don't need to look up what "decentralized peer to peer" means. I think the point your making is that unlike bitcoin the liberty dollar was backed by silver in a certralized point and since bitcoin has nothing backing it the transfers of its intrinsic value (since it has none) can be made directly between those making the tranaction. In the case of the liberty dollar a third party holding the silver had to transfer that value at some point. This made it easy for the feds to take down by going after a few people and the backing. All that means is the the government would have to have another way of brining Bitcoin down, I think I covered how they could do that pretty well.
Lets not forget that using silver or gold as money directly is decentralized peer to peer.
I'm guessing this is the best of your three "clues I lack" so the other two are probably even more of a joke but I'm up for being educated, lay them on me.
@fiftybagger, your comment doesn't touch what I discussed. I don't need to look up what "decentralized peer to peer" means. I think the point your making is that unlike bitcoin the liberty dollar was backed by silver in a certralized point and since bitcoin has nothing backing it the transfers of its intrinsic value (since it has none) can be made directly between those making the tranaction. In the case of the liberty dollar a third party holding the silver had to transfer that value at some point. This made it easy for the feds to take down by going after a few people and the backing. All that means is the the government would have to have another way of brining Bitcoin down, I think I covered how they could do that pretty well.
Lets not forget that using silver or gold as money directly is decentralized peer to peer.
I'm guessing this is the best of your three "clues I lack" so the other two are probably even more of a joke but I'm up for being educated, lay them on me.
A lot has been said about government and Bitcoin.
I wish Bitcoin to be a success and it grieves me to say this:
My view has always been - and remains so - that if (repeat IF) government wanted to crush it, they could do so very easily and quickly. Do not underestimate the criminals running government. A simple law to ban its use in any transaction (retail/commercial/banking/investment), would be enough to drive a majority of people away from it. It would then become trivial and its value would plummet.
The only place it would survive for a while is in the underground economy but that would not be a threat to USD supremacy. Even then, how would anybody in possession of digital Bitcoins exchange them for fiat currency to spend in shops/online??
If the Bitcoin holder at the end of the transaction line cannot exchange them for fiat money, he will place little value on them and that will go straight back up the line.
Perhaps the only future would be in transferring Bitcoins to a foreign jurisdiction which had NOT yet outlawed their use and exchange them for that country's fiat currency for spending locally or repatriating. But even that loophole would eventally get closed after USG pressure.
THAT government has not yet taken any action to crush Bitcoin tells me they are probably monitoring its use and development for taking control of it at some time for use as their own digital currency or as a learning curve before introducng their own digital currency.
At this point, Bitcoin is simply a digital equivalent of gold/silver.
I perfer Tide Detergent as a currency. When select denizens of this region want to steal my tools I say: "Now hold on there sonny, you and I both know you're never going to use that hammer. Here, have some Tide from the supermarket"
And it has it's utility, and not just for laundering clothes.
LOL. I guess that beats having to go through all the hassel of shooting them and then having to clean up their blood & guts..burying them...
That's not the part that troubles me, it's the anti-male/anti-white courts in this country and the court of MSNBC viewer public opinion. Nobody wants to end up on the Al-Sharpton show even if one's deeds do the world a favor.
Apologies to my Quaker & Buddist bretheren, but I'm an 'Equal-rights-member' of blowing away anybody that says they want to steal my property.
I am too, though my first comment was just a joke. Without property rights (and respect for such property) we descend into 4th world chaos.
A lot of you guys are assuming that we bit coiners are putting our 401k into this.
Many of you act like we are not paying attention to what is going on.
If something seems too good to be true, it probably is. But if I am awake, not emotional, and ready to pull the trigger...what is wrong with making some damn money.
no trigger to pull. By the time you want to do so it will already be too late.
Advance warning (which this is) is the last warning.
The exchanges will be gone or co-opted by central banks, NSA or even regular mafia banks like Goldman & JP Morgan or HSBC.
Don't tell me HSBC doesn't know how to do money-laundering, they just plead guilty to it not long ago.
Then you'll find out what your btc will get you: a bail in to one of these banks OR a jail sentence.
Today's the day to take the gains IF you can get them out in dollar-format or tangibles.
IF.
You may not be able to if you don't act soon. It's not about price, it's about fraud & trickery.
Hyperbolic.
Which fuel station accepts bitcoin?
Stack On
As a human with a still-functioning brain, I have a question: When bitcoin hits a Trillion, do we all just hand our lives over to the criminals who started this Ponzi. Notice there was no question mark at the end of that "question."
WTF has happened to planet Earth!
By the time Bitcoin hits a trillion
the tax offices of each country will know everybody's BTC-address;
and thereby, they will also know exactly how many coins everyone are hoarding.
Everyone's income will be 100% transparent to the tax offices.
Now you know the motive behind Bitcoin!
The use of "bitchez" has fallen 27% since July 1. With luck, "moar" will likewise be relegated to the dustbin of slang.
23 skiddoo!
Skeet skeet skeet bitchez!!! All up in yo grill.
Don't know why people get so emotional about folks that own bitcoin, or gold or apple. Seems like the higher something goes the more "hater's" there are. Well not being a bitcoin owner I say good luck to the buyers and congrats. I would like to know what happens if and or when the internet or electricity malfunctions for whatever reason. I don't know how that works exactly.
That being said I'm so ignorant that I can't understand why electronic/internet voting is too risky security wise but yet we are told internet banking and buying is so secure and now our medical information being digitialized is also safe. So my personal "wealth and health" are totally safe for the internet yet somehow voting is impossible. Perhaps we would realize through internet voting we wouldn't exactly need a House of Representatives being at any moment of our choosing we could actually represent ourselves on any matter put before government. Wow that would be a game changer for society. Would end up sucking for lobbyist and many sucking off the taxpayer teat.
it's not emotional. Everything that's a fraud gets called out as a fraud, not just bitcoins-for-dollars.
Various penny-stocks, pump 'n' dumps, fiat dollars, yen printing by Abe, selling gold dust from Nigeria over the interwebz to free a Nigerian prince, etc., all the same.
It is a fraud just like all the others.
I guess late to the party is better than never. Long from 2 bucks a bitcoin and 10 cents a Litecoin.
The Bitcoin Channel
Where did xenofraud go? Did her CIA check bounce? Or did the Bitcoin kettle get too hot?
The Bitcoin Channel
Come out Xenofrog , we need you to call the bottom of the next dip. No one will call you a fucktard I promise.
"The top holder of Bitcoins is the unlikely named 1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a with 111,111 units of the crypto-currency..."
11 is an Illuminati number...
.
111,111 adds up to six
no, it's 63! In binary.
Yes!
It's 63 in binary which adds up to 9 => the Ruler in Numerology.
And! it is 3F in hex which leads us to: http://fff.org
Ok, I'll address this BULLSHIT and that's what it was, going back to SHAMIR's paper just a few months ago '4' people had more than 800,000 BTC's, and 99% of all people had less than 10 BTC's.
This data that we were given today, just shows that the assholes got smart, and also you must also ALL understand that what SHAMIR did was use a UNION-ALGO to determine actual owners, rather than just dump the fuck .info as is done here,
In summary this article in ZH today about how 'equal' and spread that BTC is-is is complete fucking bullshit.
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Larger or equal to Smaller than Number of entities Number of addresses
0 1 893,763 1,497,451
1 10 389,302 698,132
10 100 881,273 1,206,209
100 1,000 255,826 285,820
1,000 10,000 36,713 38,484
10,000 50,000 3,593 3,723
50,000 100,000 181 190
100,000 200,000 55 50
200,000 400,000 30 29
400,000 800,000 76 129
800,000 4 1
Similarly, as can be seen in Table 3 the current (on May 13th 2012) balance
of almost 97% (98%) of all entities (addresses) was less than 10 BTC's.
Only ONE metric matters at this POINT, and that is the CASH-OUT velocity of BTC, .e.g. how fast are people exiting from this bitch,
Given only a few exchanges like mt-gox even allow the 'sales' of BTC, it should be easy to graph the daily acceleration of BTC dumping.
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Remember BTC is like 'hotel california', you can come in, but your money can never leave. There are on one hand a list of company's or 'virtual crook' websites that allege to return your btc's for CASH, ... It's not hard to track how fast these exchanges that are paying cash, are taking in the BTC's.
Given that the BITCH went parabolic weeks ago, the 'smart money' ( if you can honestly call any buyers that ) should be selling.
big holders of BTC were all early miners, that didn't pay shit for their coin, the only people who paid real cash for BTC's are suckers.
It's going to give real fucking soon.
No doubt that ZH is one of biggest pimp's whoring BTC's of all but why not given that site 'donations' come in via BTC's it would be conflict of interest to do anything other than PUMP the bitch.
indeed.
The sensible action would be IF you already have btc and IF they are now > 500 when you paid < 200 or <20 for it then dump now for tangibles NOT into "cash" in these exchanges (Hotel California).
But what sensible person would list a STATIC BTC price for tangible goods?? The prices would keep dropping in half then doubling every week.
No stable pricing means no stable inventory or sales outlets.
Which means you're stuck: roach motel or bust. No way to keep getting a stable amount of goods for any btc anywhere on Earth.
There is a bitcoin atm: at this point I'd suggest it very wise to empty it of paper cash & be done with btc before the giant mega collapse.
BTC ATM in vancouver canada, right next to the cannabis coffee shop.,,,Yes, we all have heard about that 'one' atm machine, so fucking what?
Me thinks that there is a daily withdrawl LIMIT of $50,... and of course you get your photo taken when you us ATMs, ...
Safety, privacy, ... liquidity, ... yeh right move along my dear sheep.
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Most likely this 'atm' just lets you take real money via a VISA, and email your self BTC's,... I couldn't imagine any exchange would 'risk' exchanging real cash for funny money.
CASH ON HAND, ... when the lemming's come in mass to 'exit', how long is the CASH ON HAND GOING TO LAST? I would speculate about one nanosecond.
What are the reserves required to be a btc ponzi exchange operator? Zero
I think this is why zero-heads love zero-coin, cuz they go in with zero, and they exit with zero.
IMF/NSA investigation on crytopgraphic money networks that began in the early-'90s and believes that Satoshi is actually Tatsuaki Okamoto, one of the main NSA researchers.
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Private? Not.
Safe? Not.
Stupid? Yes
CIA/NSA/IMF created? Yes
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Bitcoin continues surging towards heady heights, closing in on $1000. Following growing demand in China and US validation after a convivial Senate hearing, the total transaction volume of the futuristic money has now surpassed PayPal. But bitcoin’s momentum has revived an old debate. Is bitcoin, like Tor and the internet itself, the creation of the US government?
And is Satoshi Nakamoto, bitcoin’s auspicious prophet—who, by the way, is still the largest individual holder of the cryptocurrency—really an agent working under instructions for the NSA and DARPA? The idea may not seem as far fetched as it sounds.
“The IMF has been openly calling for a digital, one-world, deflationary currency for 2 decades,” one conspiracy theorist tantalizing wrote. “OPENLY. It has been discussed and promoted OPENLY at G8 and G20 summits”
The user cites an NSA investigation on crytopgraphic money networks that began in the early-'90s and believes that Satoshi is actually Tatsuaki Okamoto, one of the main NSA researchers.
“Scientific technology grants issued by government and intelligence agencies are how these labs are funded and promoted,” the reddit user nicolaosq writes. “The regulation and control of bitcoin has been actively developed alongside the development of the network.”
However unlikely, despite the libertarian wet dreams of bitcoin’s initial ambitions, the pseudo-anonymous currency could actually be the perfect way for governments to keep an NSA-like eye on the world’s transactions. In the eyes of these conspiracy theorists, it's for this reason that the Department of Homeland Security embraced the cryptocurrency at the Senate hearing on Monday. As bitcoin becomes assimilated into the financial system, which the US still controls with an iron grip, it becomes orders of magnitude easier to monitor than physical cash.
Is it crazy to think that such monitoring systems are already developed or are under development? Indeed, there are numerous other benefits that virtual currencies could have for governments and central banks. There’s growing discussion of the advantages that e-money could have for Federal Reserve policy, allowing them to set interest rates without clunky mechanisms like quantitative easing, and that paper money is actually holding the system back.
In the end, none of it might matter. The people have already spoken. Government creation or not, everyone loves bitcoin, which is bad news for the money launderers and anarchists. For the rest of us, we can simply sit back and enjoy the lower fees.
NSA Report 1996 ( well before Satoshi )
NSA Say's "HOW TO GET RICH WITH CRYPTO-CURRENCY"
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsa...
HOW TO MAKE A MINT: THE CRYPTOGRAPHY OF ANONYMOUS ELECTRONIC CASH
Laurie Law, Susan Sabett, Jerry Solinas
National Security Agency Office of Information Security Research and Technology
Cryptology Division
18 June 1996