All money and currency has its value derived from a concept - gold is no exception.
The value of money is related purely to its monetary properties; divisible, fungible, portable, acceptable, limited supply, secure, durable. These are real properties, but the value of the money itself is our belief that someone else will value it in the future - ie. store of value.
The value of gold is a concept, as is the value of BTC - concepts are intangibles, so the value of gold is as intangible as the value of BTC.
EDIT: If you were building a case on silver on the other hand, then you might have a better argument. Silver is extremely useful, and its lower valuation will always be supported by its industrial uses, gold has to rely on its use in jewelery only - and if gold were not valued as money, central banks would release their gold and it would be practically worthless.
ALL tangible goods are an exception, gold being one of them. Gold's value is from what it does in the physical realm, not how you feel about it. Your feelings don't change the atomic mass, nuclear properties, electrical properties, etc., of gold and that's its value.
Gold is frequently more useful to me than silver.
Silver on the other hand does have unique uses and I will use it for that - not just money - and that's why it IS money. It has additional uses OTHER than trade.
Is a mania phase not when every man and his dog are trying to buy in. No one is trying to get in yet, it is still very early. The Nasdaq chart shows 8x return over 10 years, bitcoin returned the same in 10 WEEKS. Lets see it going up at this rate for a few years
It has been. Best performing asset for 3 years going. I'm betting it will hold that position next year, as well... It just passed $10bln market cap so institutional money will start coming in now.
At these prices EVERYONE is trying to get in who ever could. Those who will not either aren't useful enough with computers or are so experienced / smart with trading they KNOW better than to be a bag holder. Bitcoin is already at peak interaction with humans. From here it's all servers, robots, scripts & finding bag-holders.
That's why I'm thinking going all-in gold now. Some dude with a computer made a fancy number (that cannot really be validated by a human being) and sold it for a $1000. Think about it. This is a contrarian wet dream!
Forgetting of course that dollars are just bits on a hard disk anyway, so they are both worthless.
Bitcoin can...you only need to add three zeros to the total amount, then you go, 21 billion bitcoins !!
but...but...the protocols doesnt allow it...yeah right....you will see...bitcoin inflation....like fiat inflation...just add some zeros in the computer....but...but...the miners won't accept it....yeah right....somebody in China is controlling this game....the troyan horse will destroy bitcoin from within....maybe the FED and the Chinese gov are the ones buying bitcoins right how, the idea is to be the troyan horse and destroy it from within .
"...The miner's code could be modified to change the rules and grant any number of coins but that block then would be relayed to peers. Since that change breaks the protocol, peer nodes would reject that block as being invalid and then would not relay it.
Now if other nodes run the same change and thus accept that block, they will relay it but it still doesn't matter if nobody will buy those mined coins.
So there would be a reason for enough people (an "economic majority") to decide that the change is wanted and to be willing to buy those coins from the miner.
But if you hold bitcoins, you wouldn't want those to be devalued and thus would reject the change.
And if you have borrowed coins and have to repay, and the lender will refuse any coins issued after the change occurred, then you won't buy those coins from the miners either.
So yes ... technically it is as easy as changing one line of code. But getting the economic majority to accept the change is the hard part (essentially the impossible part, for the change you are suggesting)."
When the author of this comment says "...But if you hold bitcoins, you wouldn't want those to be devalued and thus would reject the change.", he is missing this part "...UNLESS YOU ARE THE FED AND/OR OTHER CENTRAL BANKS AROUND THE WOLRD"
To be fair The Fed could easy fit all those "excess reserves" on a USB drive. It's a crazy world we're living in.
Or, as of today it's the best 40 grand you ever lost.
I'll bet you'll chicken out at ... 100 000...well worth it.
HA The hell with bitcoin I DO NOT like the notation of holding on to an asset that does not exist physically, and have its value derived from concept.
That is the vary definition of price mania.
All money and currency has its value derived from a concept - gold is no exception.
The value of money is related purely to its monetary properties; divisible, fungible, portable, acceptable, limited supply, secure, durable. These are real properties, but the value of the money itself is our belief that someone else will value it in the future - ie. store of value.
The value of gold is a concept, as is the value of BTC - concepts are intangibles, so the value of gold is as intangible as the value of BTC.
EDIT: If you were building a case on silver on the other hand, then you might have a better argument. Silver is extremely useful, and its lower valuation will always be supported by its industrial uses, gold has to rely on its use in jewelery only - and if gold were not valued as money, central banks would release their gold and it would be practically worthless.
ALL tangible goods are an exception, gold being one of them.
Gold's value is from what it does in the physical realm, not how you feel about it.
Your feelings don't change the atomic mass, nuclear properties, electrical properties, etc., of gold and that's its value.
Gold is frequently more useful to me than silver.
Silver on the other hand does have unique uses and I will use it for that - not just money - and that's why it IS money. It has additional uses OTHER than trade.
Is a mania phase not when every man and his dog are trying to buy in. No one is trying to get in yet, it is still very early. The Nasdaq chart shows 8x return over 10 years, bitcoin returned the same in 10 WEEKS. Lets see it going up at this rate for a few years
It has been. Best performing asset for 3 years going. I'm betting it will hold that position next year, as well... It just passed $10bln market cap so institutional money will start coming in now.
At these prices EVERYONE is trying to get in who ever could.
Those who will not either aren't useful enough with computers or are so experienced / smart with trading they KNOW better than to be a bag holder.
Bitcoin is already at peak interaction with humans. From here it's all servers, robots, scripts & finding bag-holders.
At the minute I would love to swap 1000 oz of silver for 1000 litecoins and 10 oz gold for 10 bitcoins
That's why I'm thinking going all-in gold now. Some dude with a computer made a fancy number (that cannot really be validated by a human being) and sold it for a $1000. Think about it. This is a contrarian wet dream!
Forgetting of course that dollars are just bits on a hard disk anyway, so they are both worthless.
How high will bitcoin go if everyone trades in their local currency for it?
euphorically euphoric
physical gold cannot be multiplied by 1,000
Bitcoin can...you only need to add three zeros to the total amount, then you go, 21 billion bitcoins !!
but...but...the protocols doesnt allow it...yeah right....you will see...bitcoin inflation....like fiat inflation...just add some zeros in the computer....but...but...the miners won't accept it....yeah right....somebody in China is controlling this game....the troyan horse will destroy bitcoin from within....maybe the FED and the Chinese gov are the ones buying bitcoins right how, the idea is to be the troyan horse and destroy it from within .
How?
"Economic Majority" is the key:
"...The miner's code could be modified to change the rules and grant any number of coins but that block then would be relayed to peers. Since that change breaks the protocol, peer nodes would reject that block as being invalid and then would not relay it.
Now if other nodes run the same change and thus accept that block, they will relay it but it still doesn't matter if nobody will buy those mined coins.
So there would be a reason for enough people (an "economic majority") to decide that the change is wanted and to be willing to buy those coins from the miner.
But if you hold bitcoins, you wouldn't want those to be devalued and thus would reject the change.
And if you have borrowed coins and have to repay, and the lender will refuse any coins issued after the change occurred, then you won't buy those coins from the miners either.
So yes ... technically it is as easy as changing one line of code. But getting the economic majority to accept the change is the hard part (essentially the impossible part, for the change you are suggesting)."
(from " How hard is the 21 million cap on bitcoin?" discussion on bitcoin talk)
When the author of this comment says "...But if you hold bitcoins, you wouldn't want those to be devalued and thus would reject the change.", he is missing this part "...UNLESS YOU ARE THE FED AND/OR OTHER CENTRAL BANKS AROUND THE WOLRD"
If I were you I would not invest in Bitcoins at this point in time. I would invest a better education first and foremost.
judging from his comment & yours, he already has one. Why don't you?
If you want to settle for a Certificate in Bag Holding, so be it. That's your choice.
When a Libertarian becomes a Keynesian free fiat tool its time to drool. Read this :
A Libertarian Writer Shows Why Conservatives Should Support A Guaranteed Minimum Income - Business Insider
Now we've seen it all. Just give them free minimum wages its cheaper than social programs currently in place for the poor!
On this subject : Mutti Merkel has just decided Germany needs a minimum wage!
Next we know Cameron will be singing send those alien Roms home and pay the home grown Pakis a minimum wage!
Good investment advice:
Just because it's high it doesn't mean it won't go higher.
Just because it's low it doesn't mean it won't go lower.