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The Bitcoin Parabola Continues: Up 10% In 12 Hours, Hits $1170
Despite the US being largely on holiday, the demand for digital currencies continues to surge. Bitcoin has rallied another 10% overnight as Chinese appetite for alternative stores of value remains unabated (BTC China is nearing its record highs) as USD/BTC is trading at $1170 - on its way to crossing the Maginot line of gold's spot price (within a few hours at this pace). Bitcoin though has nothing on its smaller cousin Litecoin which has now run from $1.11 to over $48 in the last 5 weeks. In fact, almost every crypto-currency in the world - from Infinitecoin to AnonCoin is surging... with only the ironically named PhoenixCoin (-68% overnight) not rising from the flames of fiat torment.
Bitcoin is making new highs in USD...
Getting close in China...
and Litecoin is exploding...
Almost every digital currency is on fire... (via coinmarketcap.com)
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Up, down and up again... but it remains Freedom Money.
The ability to route around the cartel is FAR more important than the price.
wow
the number of digital currencies seems to be increasing without bound
it is almost as though there were no ceiling on how many of them could be created
And whoever wants can use them. Whoever doesn't, doesn't have to.
Smells like freedom!
Bitcoin and Litecoin will crash soon, I'm going Quarkcoin, buy them while they're dirt cheap
Bitcoin and Litecoin will crash soon...
Funny that your wishes redound to the benefit of the fiat cartel.
You've been handed a tool for killing the Fed, and you hate it.
You appear to have judged yourself.
Regardless of whether you believe on whether BTC is a bubble, ZeroHedgers should all agree on the following...
Litecoin IS a bubble than will come crashing down to ultimate ruination. This is a "Keynesian" spinoff of BTC that punishes its users for "hoarding" the currency.
Look at how it just blows through supposed psychological barriers!
Can your oldcoin do this?
Now TARGET is accepting BTC through its online ordering platform. Largest US Retailer. Happy Happy. This ride is gonna be nutz. You WILL end up using BTC. What it will cost you will be determined by when you get in.
ByPassing the Almighty Dollar...Bankers ain't going to like it.
Target is accepting Bitcoin for their "Gyft" cards. So you buy a gift card digitally and that is "freedom", as opposed to walking into the store and paying cash? How is being monitored by an NSA developed fxn "freedom"?
Cash is the real enemy of the bank, not a digital currency. Try going to a bank and taking out $5000 cash. At my bank they question the hell outta me for anything more than $1000. In fact, I asked for $1500 a few months ago and they had the audacity to tell me that "they don't have that kind of cash on hand".
Digital currencies are not anti-fed, anti-banking, or freedom. They are the complete opposite because you are tracked and traced, documented and ultimately taxed on your transactions.
It is obvious to whoever has dealt with banks that cold hard cash is the enemy, because it is untraceable.
"Digital currencies are not anti-fed, anti-banking, or freedom. They are the complete opposite because you are tracked and traced, documented and ultimately taxed on your transactions."
Whamo.
Also, ask yourself: Why are big retailers accepting digital currency? What advantage is it for them to do so? From a buyers standpoint, like fone and CH1, you can argue all kinds of "freedom" ideas. But why would Walmart and Target accept a digital currency?
One simple reason IMO is cost. The transaction is way easier to manage. Revenue and tax can easily be logged and traced, showing the value of the sale, from whom, by whom. Value added taxes on large purchases are then easily monitored.
So the big box stores, Amazon, eBay, and others are going to accept Bitcoin as a political "anti-fed" statement?
Really?
these parabolic moves mean the death of those "currencies" as means to pay for goods and services. What price do you set as a retailer when the exchange rate to paper money fluctuates by 10-20% within hours? This is a bubble made in china. and probably as durable as most of the stuff that is coming from there
How does it mean the death of digital currencies? Explain. Every deflationary currency in history has been forcefully diluted and killed by banker and government intervention. Now we have a deflationary, viral p2p currency that cannot be forcefully diluted or killed. So this should finally put an end to the deflationist argument that nobody would want a currency that actually increases in value.
If Krugman really wants to go toe to toe he can release his own "Krugcoin" to compete with Bitcoin. Krugcoin will get easier to mine as time goes on and increase by the billions every month.
It seems to me that the death of digitial currencies will come from the shear number of them. When it was just bitcoin, it was simple, an easy-to-understand Guy Fawkes-style narrative. That chart showing all the current digital currencies looks like the tower of Babel.
I'm sure. Keep wishing because most of those currencies were created as a joke not a serious contender to Bitcoin.
What's the expression? "I don't have a horse in this race"? You assume that I have an emotional attachment to the failure of bitcoin. I do not. I invest based on my assessment of the risk-vs-reward of the investment. Right now, to me, the risk of bitcoin far outweighs the reward. I'm going to watch from the sidelines and will sleep well at night.
And others like myself will be leading the charge. I have a significant portion of my portfolio in BTC and it doesn't cause me to lose any sleep.
a) good for you
b) no one cares
feel better now?
.
I have a significant portion of my portfolio in BTC and it doesn't cause me to lose any sleep.
Well, if (say) you bought $100 worth when it was at $10, I'm not surprised!
But for the rest of us who can't see why there can't be several hundred different versions of bitcoin, it resembles tulipmania.
We may all be proven wrong, in which case, your 'investment' will look pretty damn smart, and when we all meet up the drinks will be on you :-)
Or it may all come crashing down and your 'speculation' will have lost you $100 (assuming you didn't cash some out before it all fell apart).
Anyway, it's quite something to see and, as other pro-freedom types have said, let a thousand currencies contend! That's what markets are for - to pick winners and kill losers, for the overall betterment of everyone.
Fonz and I were both here on this very forum, answering questions, encouraging others, explaining BTC back when BTC was $10.
So uhhh Where were you then?
Just get some dummy. Shut up and just get some.
Hey just throwing this out there. I’ve heard a few numbers out there, but I’ll use a billion ounces of investible silver since it’s a round number. Represented here as the total world reserve silver of 29.665 tons, pretty much exactly a billion ounces. That means that that at todays price there is about 20 billion dollars worth of investible silver, one of the oldest forms of money, never lost all of its value as a store of value, and the second most useful industrial material behind crude oil. Against bit coin, something that no one knows who owns what, there is no intrinsic value, and it has not existed long enough to know the drawbacks, vulnerabilities ect. It hit 1224 bucks on a site I was following, which is really close to 15 billion dollars of investable bitcoin. Does that sound right to you? Make your own judgment.
There are already multiple payment processors that fix the exchange rate to that which applied at the time of the sale and instantly convert to USD and drop it into your bank account. Exactly the same end result for the retailer as credit card payments without the enormous fees.
More USD are created every month or so than the entire market cap of BTC ... of course it is rocketing against these FIATs - it is exactly what you would expect from an unmanipulated fixed quantity currency. This is infact what Gold SHOULD be doing ... makes perfect sense and can be interpreted as proof that it is free from manipulation ?
All I know is that $100 for 20 BTC coins a while back was the best "waste of money" I was ever responsible for :)
I love the way it makes you stop and think before you buy something ... do I need it now or can I wait - knowing it will be less expensive the longer I wait.
tulip bulps. digital ones, but still tulip bulps.
.
Captive Stockholm syndrome and dollar-based mind control experiments.
No, this isn't tulip mania. When tulip mania struck, ordinary people were betting the farm and lost it all. Farmers bought into tulip mania and paying a hefty price. From where I sit, it doesn't look as if people are throwing everything including the kitchen sink at BTC. This is something else.
If Target accepts BTC for gift cards, at what rate do they accept BTC? Do they convert in Dollars before the transaction or does the buyer exchange the same amount of BTC into a fixed Dollar amount of a Target card? Seems stupid if they did it that way.
They can't reference anything other than tulips and dot.com because they lack the language to accurately describe what they are observing. It's like a pacific islander seeing an aircraft for the first time and trying to tell the villagers about it.
All nationalist currencies are virtual currencies, but this is the first time we have seen a non-nationalist (and deflationary) currency take them on in the markets.
This crypto-currency explosion reminds me of the early days of currency - when various entities, and yes, governments, would issue their own scrip.
Also reminds me of the early days of PTP. Napster got all the early heat and folded; but its descendants didn't. You can't hold back real progress.
I would have liked to participate in BTC early on, but it seemed (and still seems) too risky for our tiny budget and limited ability to 'hide' electronically - big reward, but big risk, so in our case no. I'm happy for those who speculated early and won big. I think you, fonestar, should be congratulated by any honest investor or speculator. You may lose later, but you are sure winning now with (so far) one of the few investments not corralled by the oligarchy. I don't know if BTC will last, but I think that crypto-currencies will, and right now I am cheering their rise.
You not only speculated well (at this point) but you are part of a strong challenge to fascist power. Frankly, I think you deserve some applause.
I don't know how it will end but it feels like a sea change to me. I applaud BTC for successfully challenging the status quo (for now) and love these threads just because as the gorilla so correctly posted, outside of bankster control there is freedom (including risk). Government and all its institutions always protects its dinosaurs.
Freedom to win, and freedom to lose. I think this is how currencies, and indeed any investment or speculation, is supposed to work. Capitalism and free markets, no?
PS: Do you know of any 'for dummies' guide to crypto-currencies? NO, I DON'T want to invest. I never invest in anything I don't understand. But I would like to understand it, and I am having a lot of trouble finding something that just gives me the basics in non-jargon language. I know that, much like PTP, such a nice easy guide may not actually exist. Thought I would ask in case it does, though.
These are still the very early days and lots of opportunities lay ahead. The nice thing about the design is that it allows any budget to get in. I'm sorry, I don't know of any good primers... just the videos at bitcoin.org.
Thanks, FS. I wasn't really expecting that there would be one, any more than with PTP. But it's a start. Husband and I will browse that site, thanks much.
Why? They didnt create wealth, its a zero sum game. For some people to win big wih bitcoin, somebody had to lose big. The wealth is not created with bitcoin, its just transfered from suckers to winners. So im not happy for those who won big, because a lot of poor shmucks lost big (they maybe dont know it yet, but they will soon find out, as this pyramid comes crashing down)
Tulips bulbs you dig into your garden, but bitcoin has an actual purpose and that much more efficient than our system of central banks, banks and brachnes.
WHEN The Little White Haired Woman...
YELLING Pulls The Plug On The BITsky...
WATCH OUT BELLOW...
REMEMBER, USG (IS ABLE) Controls The POG, A WorldWide Currency And Commodity Etc..
...
You've obviously not spent any time researching the topic on which you are commenting. I suppose your level of arrogance is so high due to your obvious level of ignorance. It's ok though, I'm sure it feels better than admitting to yourself that you were dead wrong for not getting into Bitcoin.
I think even in the five figures Bitcoin will not be in a bubble and you could still be considered an early adopter. There's still time to get onboard but once each Bitcoin starts to gain critical mass their time will be up.
Apres moi, le deluge.
I can own an unlimited number of bitcoin wallets and transfer between them. If I give you a memory stick that has an unencrypted wallet containing 3 bitcoin, and you give me $3000 or 3ounces of gold, where is the record that a transaction was made?
What if we just swapped to equal wallets? Even the blockchain can't track users.
Ho Lee Fuk
37 types of 'coin'.
For what, to buy junk on the internet?
Stack On
If you visited the deep web you would know that there's a lot more than "junk" there. You can buy anything you want.
Sure I can buy things I want but I'm not so sure I can buy things I need.
Like shelter, food (except mail order pizza), transportation.
My kid's tuition to trade school.
You know, real things.
Stack On
Yes, all of that stuff is available for Bitcoin.
fonestar I have nothing against bitcoin, and I wish you well with it. But looking at it from where I am standing now....having sat on my hands a bit too long....I gotta take a pass. The trajectory of it now just scares the shit out of me. Not only that but when you put in in comparison to the S&P the S&P now looks like the turtle and bitcoin is the hare. It almost seems like this was by design.
So it would not surprise me to see Bitcoin go to 5k and litecoin 1k and then they just collapse and then whoever accepts them starts bailing and the whole thing implodes on itself while the Bernak/Yellen just smile and say "well the S&P is still up 30% ytd in a nice calm orderly climb....come on in, waters warm!".
It will not crash and burn because Bitcoin fills a niche that no other currency or precious metal can facilitate.
You seem very conflicted about the future of bitcoin. Hang in there and try to build some confidence about it. Who knows, but keep your chin up and get some swagger! Enough of this "I'm just not sure" crap!
How do I seem conflicted at all? I have been a zealous supporter of Bitcoin since 2011. I have never waivered in my conviction. Start making sense or at least tell the truth.
This is the 3rd time in the past week my obvious sarcasm goes completely missed. WTF is going on with everyone?
We're just tired... and emotional because we didn't buy some BTC when Fonestar first appeared here preaching The Word.
And wondering... how high will this go? And KNOWING that if we buy today the price will collapse tomorrow... but if we don't buy today, the price will keep rocketing, $2000, $5000, $10000... and we'll be kicking ourselves for thinking $1000 looked expensive. And also KNOWING the day we buy is the day it tops.
Just look at what p2p has already done in the world and think rate of adoption. I can understand how Bitcoin looks like a strange animal to outsiders. But understand that I have been steeped in this technology for almost two decades.
I have to say, Fonestar first came to my notice as a frothing-mouthed believer in BTC months and months and months ago, and I haven't seen him waver in his conviction (not that I can claim to have read all his posts on the subject), so one thing you can't accuse him of is being ambivalent on the subject. Do I wish I'd got in when he first appeared on ZH, preaching the BTCword? Damn right! But I didn't.
That said - the trajectory of BTC (and LTC) looks a lot like silver back in 2011 to me. And the fact LTC is skyrocketing seems to me to be an illustration that there's no reason you can't have a hundred different cryptocurrencies. If they really take off, I can see our beloved governments announcing new CryptoUSD/CryptoYuan/GBP?Euros that you can pay your taxes in - and that will be the end of BTC, LTC, and what have you.
Anyway, it's a hell of a show, and hats off to Fonestar for getting in at ground level.... but no one likes a smart ass :-)
I'm all for him seeing his investment appreciate, but here is what is odd. He thinks "no one has ever seen anythng like this before". He is dead wrong there. He completely missed my saracasm, so that means he does not appreciate good humor. Most importantly, until I see everyone on here trading stories of all the cool shit they bought with their bitcon gains I remain skeptical. Yeah yeah yeah it has a long way to go and it's not time to sell...whatver.
I want to see people comparing their stash of gold coins and new homes in Belize etc. etc. funded by their gains. When I see that I will truly congratulate them. It's just paper/digita wealth until you convert into something meaningful. Where have we seen that before?
Imagine if China revealed they had bought some large percentage of BTC as a hedge against USD default... and that they would accept some percentage of taxes to be paid in BTC...
Or Iran says you can pay (say) 2% of your oil bill in BTC.
Interesting times.
"It will not crash and burn because Bitcoin fills a niche that no other currency or precious metal can facilitate"
'no other currency' ...except for every other digital currency.
A major factor in the price of anything is the barrier to entry for competitors. Bitcoin has ZERO intellectual property and ZERO trade secrets. Bitcoin fundamentally has nothing that you or I or anyone else can't do. What Bitcoin does have is momentum, but that momentum is largely built on hype and fear. Neither of those has any mass and once they are removed from the equation Btc's inertia stops dead in its tracks.
Price ceiling will be inversely proportional to the presence of competition, who - it must be stated again - are innumerable and have no barrier to entry. I don't pay $50 for a Coke because I have suitable alternatives. Ultimately we'll learn that Btc truly is worth not much more and not much less than other digital currencies. That might prove to be $0.00001 or $1,000,000, and the latter would mean that speculators need to get in on the others while they're at the bottom (while riding on Btc's coat tails). Any price differences between Litecoin, Bitcoin, Windowscoin, Facecoin, etc will have nothing to do with the crypto aspect etc and will instead be due entirely to marketing and network.
If I was one of the handful who hold (putatively) millions of USD or Yuan worth of Btc, I'd waste no time blogging and would instead work tirelessly to get more ATM's out there and more on-line merchant acceptance. Me? If I held $50,000,000 worth...I would not only offer prebates and rebates to the merchants, I WOULD BUY THE FUCKING ATM's and GIVE THEM AWAY.
During the period of free banking, there were dozens if not hundreds of privately issued currencies in circulation.
Competition is good, friend.
Now quick, someone explain how this is a bubble? A global electronic currency that few people have heard of and even fewer people actually use? Does that even make sense?
Let me know when BTC comes anywhere close to AUD, NZY, CAD, etc and I will take you more seriously.
Fiat currencies and debt denominated there in are the real bubbles. BTC is the honest one.
BTC is the needle that is popping the bubbles in those currencies.
We'll see a pop alright, about the same time as when 1933phfhK3ZgFQNLGSDXvqCn32k2buXY8a decides to exchange his "units" for something he can actually touch...lol.
Not really a concern of mine. The early holders could cause a price crash but the demand would quickly create equilibrium.
Even at $1,000 - $1,500 BTC people will be considered "early adopters".
Dollar price crash? So BitCoin can't stand on its own two feet?
Look dude...I've seen all this before. As soon as the public gets daily media reports that anything with the word "coin" behind it, is hot (just like with the dot com mania) you better be cashin out.
I know what it is and its not money.
Here ya go, from me to you...another ground floor ponzi scheme idea...its NanoCoin!
You're welcome ;-)
A lot of these BTC pumping comments are reminiscent of:
"Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau."
And we all know how well that ended.
They've taken a perfectly good vehicle for moving money around (somewhat under the radar) and destroyed it. I don't know whats worse about people, their ingenuity or their greed ;-)
Greed, totally. Someone saw an opportunity and took it. Game's over and people don't know it yet.
I mean, "BBQCoin"?
All these coins are the equivalent of BTC1, BTC2, BTC3...almost like QE1, QE2, QE3...
Tend to agree, simple greed.
The whole thing is predicated on (if we are to believe the purists) spending...not saving to begin with. The other useful function of saved labor/money & capitalism.
Now its just a runaway train of speculation where the holder is hesitant to let go for fear in the next hour it will be worth X more and the shopkeeper is afraid to accept it for fear he will let something go of real value at a sharp discount when it crashes.
Hardly sound money or sound economics.
But...we're living in an age where rationality has no bearing on fundamentals...lol.
So what if there is greed? You do not understand currencies, trading or markets.
Fonestar, most of us understand 'currencies, trading or markets' pretty well. We understand modern fiat currencies ultimately have value because if 'your' government determines you have profited during the year, you will be required to deliver unto their enforcers a certain amount of a currency they produce and control... and if you don't, you'll be thrown into a cage to spend your hours,days and months with some very, very unpleasant people. BTC does not have this driver.
What it has is very low transaction costs across borders... and some apparent anonymity (though my undertanding is that every transaction gets recorded). But I have yet to have explained to me how well BTC will function if it becomes widely adopted and transactional velocity picks up.
Anyway, hats off for being an early adopter. And maybe a year from now I'll be kicking myself because I didn't buy at 'only' $1000... but it looks a lot like a speculative bubble to me.
And I really wouldn't put it past our masters to have every central bank buying these hand over first to drive the price up, every government-sponsored computer shop (like the NSA) mining like crazy... and then dumping them all and crushing late adopters. Draghi, Yellen, Carney... the dude from the BoJ... they''ll all appear on television with their shit-eating grins, saying 'See??? We told you these things were a ponzi scheme!"
Gold is an element with genuinely unique properties that make it excellent money. Silver is also a unique element, though it seems to me (at this point) to be more valuable from an industrial than a monetary standpoint. The only thing differentiating BTC from every other cryptocurrency - as far as I can see - is that it was the first. And, unlike MS first-mover advantage (where people got locked into using MSDOS/Windows because of their existing investment in hardware and 3rd party software, and the difficulty of migrating data and users over to cheaper alternatives) anyone who takes BTC might as well accept LTC or any of the other cryptocurrencies springing up like mushrooms.
Any money I 'invest' in BTC is money I'm not investing in Au/Ag. I (and others) may be making a big mistake... but I think you can see the reasoning behind our decision.
Being paid to post from a boiler room (or your Moms basement) doesn't make you one either.
Now that we've got the ad hominems out of the way, I didn't say anything about self interest which is normal, I was talking about the damaging effects of greed.
+1 greed is an excess of self interest, at the cost of others. a win/lose solution
Yes, to both your first comment and this one ;-)
imho it's amazing how the tongue-in-cheek "greed is good" and hyperbolic "greed or fear" memes have evolved to... deadpan serious financial gospel
I fear those NewSpeak vocabulary changes more than lots of other things... by Jingo
It is amazing.
I guess its just the endless pumping that offends my sensibilities the most...there will be bagholders and then the on-line screen names will be gone...poof!...vanished into the ether.
And I will have just as much disdain for the bagholders then as I do the pumpers now who got them into it...just to be fair with my scorn, as it was their own choice to grab it from the pumper ;-)
Quick! someone email some btc to robottrader stat so he can move back into his mom's basement from the back alley!
oh wait... homeless people don't HAVE access to electronics, email & cell phones on contract? Awwww bummer.
I guess someone with real money will have to come along to donate.
Survival of the fittest, fishez. You and I don't make these rules. Don't hate the player... if you must hate, then hate the game.
the fittest do not shit in their own nest. BTC does.
Don't hate the player! btcn iz srs bsns!
anyone who does would never own bitcoin. It isn't money, it isn't a currency, it is a trade & it's not a good one because it's nearly impossible to short it and that's where the money (dollars) will be (turned to gold shortly after).
More so than you. btc is not a currency. Trading & markets mean that any rise like this will end in a crash and soon. Never ever has something else happened in all financial history of the world. BTC is smashing from 1200 to 0 or from 2400 to zero. One minute you'll say "I'm reeeech!" then a second later it's GONE. All gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TlPo0yCSa4
None of these alt-coins offer any real competition to BTC. Many of them were created as experiments and jokes between friends.
Well most of them I should say, maybe Litecoin and a few others have a chance.
One thing I've noticed over the years, is "the truth is in the comments". So I find it interesting that there are so many doubters on ZH, this tells me we are nowhere near a bubble. Will there be corrections in Bitcoin, sure there will, probably even some crashes, but people who compare this to the tulip mania are lost and mis-informed.
People who have faith in the value of dollars or even gold have just that, "faith". It is faith alone - not utility - that establishes value for gold or dollars. So Bitcoin is working on establishing faith, but I'd rather put my faith in a mathematical formula like Bitcoin than a USD that can be and is being printed at will.
Look folks, there is demand for better payments systems than the current credit card/Western Union/Bank transfer system. That's it folks - demand for better payment systems - that will push people and merchants into crypto currencies.
Like other currencies, some of the cryptos will fizzle and die and others will eventually dominate, until there are 2-3 winners that are widely accepted just like there are a handful of credit cards that are widely accepted to where no one even bothers trying to start a new credit card company anymore. I don't know if Bitcoin will be one of the eventual winners, but crytocurrencies will flourish because this is an idea whose time has come.
You're actually in a giant bubble because you've saturated the bitcoin market. No one else is dumb enough to buy them & that's a split between "what's a bitcoin" and "gold, bitchez"
Not one digi-coin of any sort will be sold to me for any price above a penny. Ever.
"Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right. Greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures, the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge, has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the U.S.A."
seek thanks again for your help. I am still watching that file download. The other transaction went through. I tried sending it back but got denied because I was unable to send the whole amount because I needed to cover a fee. Not sure what amount is. I am heading out to family now. I will check the other file tonight and I will catch you on here again. Thanks again for taking the time. You are a good dude.
No problem! Hopefully the other client syncs completely and the 0.1 BTC appears, it all hinges on the private key in the wallet being the same one that generated the address you shared.
Hope when you return stuffed with turkey it will be waiting for you.
I guess you missed the end of that movie where they all go to jail for their greed?
LOL, quoting Gekko?
That was a leftist hollywood ending. BTW, a huge amount of what they portrayed as illegal in that movie wasn't.
That quote specifically is a tribute to capitalism, which works. My point was that while some may see greed as a negative for bitcoin, the reality is that greed is what made bitcoin happen -- all the miners, the vendors on Silk Road, investors buying it up on speculation -- all driven by greed, and made a wholly new currency appear and go from zero to billions in market cap in a few years. Capitalism works, fascism doesn't.
insider trading portrayed absolutely IS illegal, now and then, and back in that day people DID go to jail for it.
You must have melted your brain - no wonder you're into bitcon.
I should have known - I should be buying Anacot Steel using bitcoin.
Thanks, Bud. Send a complimentary stogey to Gordon for me.
Bullshit. Nobody alive today has seen anything like this.
The dot com crash was only thirteen years ago...nobody alive today?...lol.
I was involved in the miami condo buying frenzy in 2006. I was down there in a sales office filled with people from all over the world scrambling to buy anything and everything. The bimbo saleswoman was good for at least a million bucks just signing the ppwk. To say no one has ever seen anything like this is a bit dramatic.
Ditto. Fonestars' incoherent arguments make me more and more suspicious of who he really is.
Incoherent? If I were wrong I should be losing. It appears that you are doing that for me though. Do I have something wrong here or do my eyes deceive me?
no, if you are winning at the loss of others you're still wrong - for you to be right that condition must be impossible.
Good question. Fonestar, can you give us a general idea of what you do for a living, maybe your age bracket? How old were you during the dot-com era of 1995-2001?
Fonestars' incoherent arguments make me more and more suspicious of who he really is.
LOL... Yes! He's a witch! Burn him!
Same shit, different century.
Dot.com was nothing about new digital currencies it was about deliberately over-hyped stocks that generated no revenue. Try again.
How do YOU give a wino or homeless person a BitCoin?
Its a "currency", right? ;-)
Uh, send it to their address maybe???
lol...the wino or homeless person has an actual address=$ (physical or otherwise), the device=$, the electricty=$, the internet=$, the accounts all set up to access=$ to convert BitCoin...into usable money/currencies?
Really?
I see unicorns.
I guess my next question is why are there homeless & winos with all these luxuries at their disposal and yet no walkin around money?
Did it ever occur to you that even homeless people can use ATMs and public computers? Think harder.
So you're not really giving them "money"...you're giving them ACCESS TO money. Kinda like depending on banks & public computers to always be open or available to give ACCESS TO money.
Big difference there grasshopper, how about you trying to think a little harder about what real money is.
It doesn't rely on anything besides itself to exist or be useful as money.
I've spent years around probably 100 homeless people in direct & frequent contact.
My experience says you're completely wrong.
You can't even get welfare without an address. They have no public computer use because they are busy pan-handling for money to get food and drugs. I can't blame on the drugs: it helps you sleep at night.
You need to think harder. Many have no idea how to read or write, fuck computers.
A fucking PENCIL is voodoo.
PENCIL.
Think about that.
Homeless people won't use bitcoin.
Those people who are a step above, on welfare & able to use the ATM to get cash FROM welfare, able to get a computer used or stolen FROM somewhere to do something, still can't handle basic email a lot. It's complicated to them. Typing is complicated. User interfaces are complicated. A single box on the screen asking for ONE piece of information is confusing to many.
Could be they're dumb, could be they're old, could be they're high, drunk, who knows.
It just doesn't tend to work out. I've seen it first hand showing people for the last 15 years how to try and it doesn't work out very well. It's just too frustrating.
They can't keep usb drives, data files, or back in the day floppy disks straight - nowhere safe to keep them and no idea what a 'folder' or 'directory' is no matter how many hundreds of times you show them and tell them. I did try it.
Now you try and see how it works out for you.
How the fuck do you think they got poor or homeless in the first place? It's because their total potential in life is less than the average person's total potential of abilities in about 3 months or so of constant effort & learning, for the most part.
IDIOT.
They don't have one anymore than you can donate them clothing by storing it safely in the trunk of their ferrari.
You are the 2nd-dumbest kunt - the dumbest posted a URL proving my point while thinking it proved his.
They can pick any bitcoin address from about 2160, or 1,461,501,637,330,902,918,203,684,832,716,283,019,655,932,542,976 possible ones. Should be enough (it can be increased if the need ever arose).
THEY CAN'T.
They're homeless.
They can't pick a bitcoin address or an email address, a phone number, probably not even what to get for their next meal.
Many homeless can't even fucking READ properly much less handle a bitcoin address, you dumb fuck.
Google is your friend. When you get tired of kicking against the goads you should try it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin+homeless&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&...
Oh, and this new borderless currency enables Bitcoin communities around the world to strategically target immediate disaster relief to victims anywhere on the planet, completely bypassing corrupt globalist NGO's like the American Red Cross.
https://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin+typhoon+relief&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8...
Slaves, you may now resume your regularly scheduled programming.
IDIOT.
They don't have one anymore than you can donate them clothing by storing it safely in the trunk of their ferrari.
You are the dumbest kunt.
1) Google is not my fucking friend. A friend does not purposefully decieve (search results) or steal information from me (their mapping project) or hand that or any information over to a third party (as Snowden confirmed) like the federal government without putting up a fight to the death, like a friend would. It is in fact, one of the "corrupt globalist NGO's" you describe.
2) You just proved my main point about digital "money"...(from your Wired link). They cannot ACCESS any money without a device, power or internet, so it is not money. Its actually access to credit and/or a debit account.
3) They (from your Wired link) are stealing power to charge their devices.
4) These homeless are being abused by someone "paying" in BitCoin. I'll leave the hoax/fraud aside in what they're doing for another day but nothing good can come from driving internet traffic hit counts: "For every video he watches, Angle gets 0.00004 bitcoins, or about half a cent, thanks to a service, called BitcoinGet, that >>>shamelessly drives artificial traffic<<< to certain online clips. He can watch up to 12 videos a day, which gets him to about six cents."
Not even close to minimum wage, very "humanitarian" these Bitster's.
5) You should review the things you link & say before posting.
At the end, the dot com bubble was a greed driven get rich quick scheme. People rush in for fear of being "priced out forever". All the ZHers here understand what you're thoughts on having a more honest system but the CC craze definitely has the same hype other manias had. With that being said though, atleast maybe this will cause people to question and learn about the reality of central banking.
and BTC is one of those over-hyped stocks that produces nothing.
It's just late to the last dot-com boom-bust.
bullshit. This looks precisely like the dot-com boom, precisely like the AAPL stock boom, precisely like the mania for tulips, it's identical in every last possible way.
Every hour a new crypto currency is created. They are creating faster than uncle Ben.
It's not about the number of btc's, but about the number of crypto currencies.
now Im hearing of desighner crypto currencies.........Kim Kardashian has the newest one called asscoin..........check it out......
www.asscoin.com
The last bubble was in Bitcoin and to a much smaller extent litecoin. This bubble this time is in the altcoins that everyone is buying to get rich quick because they missed out on BTC. When this bubble pops, it will be from altcoins back into BTC (most can't be changed for USD, only BTC on exchagnes) which will help to keep BTC from crashing too much and will drive the altcoins down harder and further.
that equilibrium is around $3/each. That will destroy all interest in further use of btc.
A detailed analysis of why litecoin is a bubble isn't necessary, just look at the chart. Parabolic moves like that are always indicative of a bubble. They only end one way - a crash where the parabolic spike is erased.
the exponential-of-exponential chart movement is a bubble move. Nothing can move that way except a bubble.
It can't be dollars inversely because real things in the real world bought with dollars are NOT forming the same price action and yet they are critical goods like silver, gold, copper, wheat, corn, beef, etc.
The built-in deflation of BTC will be puzzling. Imagine you bought a pizza, Dominoes no less, for 100 bitcoins way back when.
The current deflationary trend in BTC is in fact what is motivating people to exchange their increasingly worthless fiat for BTC.
I agree. It's the perfect system. The dollar could have been perfect too if they agreed to not print more than X amount ever and there were no contre-facons.
...or if they just left it backed by gold.
no, that's the fx/ratio & amplified sheeple-bubble response.
We call it "finding bag-holders"
Imagine you were the chump who ACTUALLY bought a PIZZA for 10,000 bitcoins way back in the days of Genesis. Anchovies. And Zoidberg came back in time to eat it right out of his hands.
I bet the pizza buyer feels even worse than the Beanie Baby investor who bought Special Limited Edition Puddles the Puppy, only to see them come out with his brothers: Special Limited Edition Poopsie-Whoopsie, Special Limited Edition Knob Gobblin, etc.
Even so, I am selling some BTC now because the Beanie Baby Effect is already getting out of hand, and it is only going to get worse when more people look at all these Beanie Baby charts and realize they can make a killing by starting a crypto-currency, mining it in the dark, and then advertising it to a Chinese audience.
Source??!?
http://www.coindesk.com/target-americas-third-largest-retailer-accepts-b...
My bad. You use Gyft to buy Target gift card w/ BTC. Not yet directly accepted by TARGET.
Ah, the Gyft cards. Still pretty cool, though.
Is target actually accepting bit coins or do they just list everything in the current usd to bit coin ratio and convert back to usd immediately after the transaction?
Target on the Bilderberg chart.
http://www.infowars.com/chart-shows-the-bilderberg-groups-connection-to-...
I will not and I don't shop at target either. Or walmart.
Bitcoin, appears to be a direct threat to the US dollar, but the Government is talking nice about it. Does that make any of you nervous? I take it most of you believe that the Government is not above manipulating markets. The fed does it openly in the MBS, and treasuries, manipulation is the only reason for the plunge protection team. LBJ told the American people not to hoard silver after the demonetization in ’64 or he would sell the US stockpiles and crush the market. Greenspan said the Fed was using gold leasing, LIBOR, ect ect. You really think they are going to let this little libertarian dream of yours fly without a major fight. So how do you get them, computing power right? Ok who has the most computing power, the US gov right. Well they probably got a huge market share that way. Or you can buy them right? Guess who has more money than you, yep the US gov. Target? shoot, the gov could make a law that retailers couldn’t accept bitcoin and that’s that, follow it up with flooding the market and the game is over. Please tell me how you know the US Gov doesn’t own 50 or 60%, 80 or 90% of the market right now. You have not made any money until you sell so be careful.
Will you have the emotional fortitude to fight by using gold and silver after you go through the emotional rollercoaster of getting in early in bitcoin, becoming a millionaire, then going back to zero. TPTB are betting you won’t.
Bitcoin has ¾ of the market cap of world wide silver reserves, is 4 years old, and no one knows its weaknesses and vulnerabilities.
There are no psychological barriers to a fad and a gimmick. You are attributing reality in something that is just silly. But I hope you enjoy all of your hard-earned investment income. Snicker, snicker...
Just see what happens if some employers and employees reach an agreement to pay/be paid in bitcoin. That will be interesting to see what the IRS has to say about it.
Already left msg on Weibo to W Street Specialist
I Say it Again, they are issuing private currency, or they are issuing counterfeit!!!! Using counterfeit to exchange real money and real good !!
if programmer continue to create electronic coin and exchange it with USD/RMB, then we will face great inflation...
already 200+ from AAAcoin to ZZZcoin created some like Litecoin are chasing Bitcoin's market value, if Bitcoin rise to $10,000, Litecoin hike to $1000, will equivalent to inject 200b + 80b = 280b into system, let alone rest 198+ coin! it is bigger than QE3 and what Fed's doing!
Finally some intelligence as to what happens when hyper liquidity enters the marketplace.
+1 dude.
It'll go tits up? Isn't this the same general idea behind the plan to crash Comex? When the dust settles there will still be the same amount of gold and the same amount of Bitcoin.
The medium of exchange I wish to use with my partners should be no concern of the Government. We can settle in bottle caps if we choose or gold or bitcoin.
There is one crucial difference.
You can roll an unlimited amount of crypto currencies. e.g. MyCoin, YourCoin, AntiTerrorCoin, HopeAndChangeCoin, EnduringFreedomCoin etc etc... Choose your crypto.
I choose Bitcoin.
Then you have chosen poorly.
Hyper liquidity without a corresponding debt on the other side of the balance sheet.
If I mine bitcoin and use them to pay down my dollar denominated debt, I am removing dollars from the system.
Cryptocurrencies are to the Central banking system what digital cameras are to Kodak or digit music is to record companies.
Whatever the outcome, they will be hugely disruptive to the PTB.
Wrong!
It's a zero sum game. Maybe you made some money to pay down debt, but that means others paid more for the Bitcoins then you did.
Exampe: A new bitcoin valued at say $1000 is "mined" and is accepted as payment for goods produced.
You have removed dollars from "your" system. How can you pay down debt with bitcoin? Which bank or finance institution is taking bitcoin?
Now you are in the position of holding a crypto currency that you need to exchange for govt fiat to purchase >95% of things in the economy.
When you sell bitcoins on an exchange, it is the same as selling any foreign currency you hold in a Forex trading account, minus of course that all CryptEX is zero leverage. When you cash out money from your trading account, it goes into your bank account.
Holy nutballs! I just sold 40,000 Zetacoins for $170! THE SHIT IS BANANAS!!
"I am removing dollars from the system. "
No you are not removing dollars from the system.
The only way dollars are removed from the system is when the Fed sells securities, a bank loan is paid down, or physical dollars are destroyed.
If you put a thousand dollars under a mattress and leave it there, you might be able so say you've taken a thousand dollars out of the system. Technically you're right. It's not in circulation anymore.
Paying for something with a newly minted Bitcoin doesn't affect the amount of dollars in the system at all.
And Bitcoin is not currency. It's more like company stock. Limited number of "shares", can rise in value, and people can barter what they have for company stock, it used to happen a lot.
It's a "hot stock" you might say, gaining value rapidly. But similar "companies" are springing up rapidly and they're issuing stock too, so dilution of value is inevitable.
NO, the only way to remove dollars is to accept them THEN DESTROY THEM.
It wouldn't be ZH without calling for a crash
There has never been a parabolic move like that seen with litecoin that has not resulted in a crash. Never. Sure, the spike may spike a little bit higher, but the crash is inevitable.
Look at the chart of BTC from inception on a log scale and convince me its a bubble. Furthermore, what most people who lack experience in the BTC market is that a large number of "early adopter ponzi schemers" types long deleted their btc wallets when they were basically worthless. Those coins wlll never be recovered much to the anger of their prior owners.So many more, including likely the seceret writter of the bitcoin papaer cashed out in the run to $30 in 2011. The early marker participants were very naive as to what they were working with and in all fairness, there was little reason not to believe cashing out was a good idea.