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The Bitcoin Parabola Continues: Up 10% In 12 Hours, Hits $1170
Despite the US being largely on holiday, the demand for digital currencies continues to surge. Bitcoin has rallied another 10% overnight as Chinese appetite for alternative stores of value remains unabated (BTC China is nearing its record highs) as USD/BTC is trading at $1170 - on its way to crossing the Maginot line of gold's spot price (within a few hours at this pace). Bitcoin though has nothing on its smaller cousin Litecoin which has now run from $1.11 to over $48 in the last 5 weeks. In fact, almost every crypto-currency in the world - from Infinitecoin to AnonCoin is surging... with only the ironically named PhoenixCoin (-68% overnight) not rising from the flames of fiat torment.
Bitcoin is making new highs in USD...
Getting close in China...
and Litecoin is exploding...
Almost every digital currency is on fire... (via coinmarketcap.com)
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Sweet, I'm in. BTFATH
/sarc
L. Ron Hubbard had it wrong; you don't create your own religion to get rich, you create your own currency.
No thanks.
Just a matter of trust.
What would you rather own? An ounce of physical gold? Or some imaginary, digital coin?
between a bitcoin and a dollar, I'll take that dollar anytime.
Because you're another fake libertarian traitor is why.
That kind of thinking is the reason why nobody wants to have anything to do with you in the real world.
It's not that everybody is against you. They just don't like you.
So you have a 1000$ or less. Is that a reason to go all nuts against everybody?
Before you answer... the answer is "no, that's not a reason".
fonestar is virtualized. I will go nuts against everybody until your dollar is defeated and those who supported it, transacted in it are completely destroyed. Remember, this is about supreme philosophy and not just being right.
In you're case it's between being a whackjob and a complete moron.
Ya, that one is too close to call, but as usual with tools like Foneystar, he's his own worst enemy.
I sincerely hope BTC crashes and burns ASAP for the single simple reason that I don't have to click all those downvote arrows next to your name anymore.
fake
The dollar he holds in his hand does not fit nicely on an RFID chip. I never thought I'd see so many in the liberty movement get suckered into digital money when it's been known for so long a purely digital money with no physical backing is what the global financial mafia want.
no, because only an idiot would take shitcoinz.
Spot on, fonestar. +1000
'laughing, well, i'd take the bitcoin...hands down.
What would you rather send to your cousins in the Philippines? An ounce of gold? Or $1200 worth of Bitcoin?
Dumb question. Neither is going to do you any good if both your safe and your file back-ups are sitting under massive amounts of sludge, felled buildings and cars.
You know that the typhoon did not destroy the entire country, right? Just as Hurricane Katrinia did not destroy ever single city in America?
SAFE?!
You don't catch up on comments, much, just hit reply too much.
BOATING ACCIDENTS. As in, BOATS, as in THEY FLOAT (until you make them capsize).
The gold's not in a safe. No need to keep it in one static spot. Best to carry with you anywhere you go so you have it with zero searching time.
LOL. Is that a trick question? Good thing their grids for power & communications aren't all down. oh wait!
ALL IN for quatloos!
"Smells like freedom"
Nope.....smells like BULLSHIT !
I bet it does for you fakes! Hahahahahaha!
MSM cheering bitcoin on.
GOLDBUG VIEW ON BITCOIN BITSWAN
http://www.offgridminds.com/misinformation-blog/2013/11/30/goldbug-view-...This type of price manipulation is understandable for an unregulated ponzi scheme. The early birds must be rubbing their hands in delight , while the buyers at these 1000 plus numbers are going to shed many tears.
This just in....the dollar has been renamed to SHITCOIN
original
Price manipulation my ass! You haven't seen something freely traded in decades and now you are having to invent conspiracies to explain what you are seeing.
it looks like every OTHER manipulation ponzi scheme. Nothing's changed & btc profits are locked in to fiat currencies, not tangible goods.
The only way to prove me wrong on this is when there's a mildly exponential price rise where dollars aren't involved - only btc, gold, silver, wheat, etc. But there isn't & there won't be.
Everyone is totally entitled to their opinion of what a currency or money should be valued at, but just don't tell me Bitcoin is a ponzi or a scam. I've already seen benefit making business in bitcoin. I've made some modest sales that very likely wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Bitcoin. Honest business with customers returning to ask for more. Value gained for both parties and some newly created trust on top of that. The value of the bitcoins I got wasn't much at the time, but I felt like keeping the money the way I got them. Since then obviously I've seen it fluctuate wildly, but I didn't convert any of it and don't see a reason to do that any time soon (certainly not to hold fiat currencies).
Yeah, heard that same speach from the Herbalife guy next door- he's changing the world, too....
Keep an eye on the Zerocoin project. They propose to solve bitcoin's anonymity limitations.
Zerocoin transactions can't be traced through the ledger. Instead, money goes into a pool and when you spend you draw randomly from the pool.
Originally it was proposed as an overhaul/add-on to the bitcoin protocol, but there was very little popular support to integrate it because it was considered too experimental. So they are launching it soon as a separate "altcoin".
The crypto cat is out of the bag now. May the best coin win.
Let's see, being a long long time ZH reader and theeby a tin foil hat wearer and conspiratist.......I have to believe all these new crypto currencies are the doing of CB's and .GOV agencies. If i had a monopoly on the currency, and i saw a direct threat from another source, I would first try to dis credit it. If that does not work i would then try to bully a few key individuals to scare off the other users. If that doesn't work I would use my minions to try to regulate the acceptors of the Alternative currency, and if this fails, I would flood the system with hundreds of other cryto currencies so more suckers try to cash in on the success of the first. Finally, i would make sure most of the new currencies fail. Some as just bubbles, some will be hacked and go haywire, and some may not make it off the ground. This way, the majority of the participants will lose hence discrediting the whole industry
Hmmm, along that conspiracy vein, bitcoin could be a way for the CIA, etc. to fund certain nefarious activities, a way to keep the funding source off the grid. Dupes like fonestar could be financing drone kills of babies in Afghanistan.
And mind-controlled dupes like yourself fighting against truly free-market currency end up shilling for the current fake money system that we know for a fact is financing drone kills of innocents. You should be proud.
I see the problem more that they offer conversions to fiat that can be printed to hell without bounds, cia slush funds etc.. When they do this, even though betting will it go, will it go down, they make it into something as unstable IMHO.
There is no money. Our shit is only worth what someone else is willing to give us for it. A sweater and a can of corn may be worth everything else you own one day, or nothing at all. Everything else is about gambling and speculation for profit. Too bad we don't concentrate on providing goods and services instead of trying to induce people to buy stuff they don't need or has no real value at all.
It's just the symbol of stupidity and greed.
My god... people can be so dumb...
There will be about 1% who will have money out of it and 99% will lose it all.
This will soon be the biggest pump and dump fraud in the world.
And the way you think this has anything to do with freedom or money is mindbogling...
I know one group of people who want to know "how high can it go and keep it there."
Probably the same speculators on ZH who like yellow but the other side who are trying to push it down don't seem to have the same interest in bitcoin
HAHAHAHA !!!! LOL !!
"Freedom Money"
Are you fucking SERIOUS ?
There is NO freedom when money is involved.....particularly money YOU yourself can make. All day long.....letting your little PC with a quad SLI Nvidia Geforce Titan compute a string of 0's and 1's and selling that to some geek who thinks that's cool?
You're already a slave......first in your mind....where the REAL slavery always begins and ends....no matter if your body is in physical bondage. You're a slave to the notion that you need that "Freedom Money" to be free in the first place. What do you want to be free from? And what kind of freedom will Shit Coin buy you that will not wither and die on the vine of life anyway? Can you take Shit Coin with you when you die? What if you give your Shit Coins to your family members after you're gone? What's to keep them from finding out that any so called "Freedom" is fleeing at best....illusionary at worst.
You are only allowed to play with your little tech hobby until the Powers That Be decide it is in their best interest to shut it down or tax and regulate the hell out of it and their goes your precious, fucking "Freedom Money".
Fucking deluded idiot. And when they come and take it....you will let them because there is not a fucking thing you can or will do about it.
Fucking Freedom-tard is what you are.
Good luck selling your FUD, it stinks so bad nobody is buying.
"FUD"? -lol You must be that YT idiot 'Brother John', or a ball licking devotee of his.
LOL. BrothertardF. What a fucker.
he can't explain the MOST BASIC question: if silver goes to 500 what will prices of bread, uranium, copper, land be? He dismisses the question as if it's beneath him to cover up that he's gone full retard.
Hahahaha.... I KNEW you were Ben Bernanke all along!
It's painfully obvious they are inside your head long ago.
Wow
Edit -sorry jumbo was directed at pornstar
Right fucking on, Jumbotron. You know what freedom is? Freedom is never watching the MSM news. Freedom is not basing your diet from the "food pyramid" but growing a garden instead. Freedom is not going shopping on Black Friday.
You say slavery begins and ends in one's mind, and that is so true and well said. The very next paragraph conveys the message that there is a master so almighty that there is not a single thing (presumably in the realm of money) that could ever be free from it. Then you say it again: "there is not a fucking thing you can or will do about it", not realizing that this is precisely the aspect where Bitcoin trumps all other known forms of money or currency. You always have things you can do about it. You can take your bitcoins with you when you die. There was a time and place where you could do that with gold and silver. If someone tried to steal your wealth one thing you could do was sink with your ship and money to the bottom of the seas and not have to give your wealth to those who don't deserve it. With today's technologies such things are harder to do with precious metals, but you definitely can do it with an encrypted Bitcoin wallet. You just don't tell the password to anyone and if you die unexpectedly, it's gone for good. I don't know if this sounds like an important point to you, but if you think about it you will see that it actually provides an incentive against coercive or forceful collection of wealth. All other aspects of Bitcoin (transferring bitcoins, verifying transactions, mining bitcoins) can too continue in spite of any "powers that be" - that is the main idea behind the whole thing. What is at risk of interference are the services that interact with TPTB controlled things - such as exchanges between BTC and fiat currencies. I can live with that though.
You can't.
Bitcoins are destroyed if the network is destroyed.
Bitcoins are destroyed if their storage devices are destroyed.
Those things happen regularly in earthquakes, storms, solar flares & there's war for grid-down situations.
Bitcoins are as fragile as spider-webs.
The #1 attack on bitcoin will be to herd people INTO it then destroy all means for its storage & computation, reverting to GOLD as currency which the central banks of the world are acquiring.
This will end very poorly for bitconners.
To destroy the network would mean to destroy the entire internet. I don't think you realize what this would mean. In any case, there are plenty of alternative technologies for every aspect of the Internet, starting from wireless links, mesh networks, anonymous/pseudonymous overlay networks (i2p, TOR), decentralized DNS (one example is based on Bitcoin technology: Namecoin) and many others.
About storage you need to realize this: Information is inherently easy to multiply and hard to stifle. You can easily place copies of your encrypted wallet anywhere you can think of, even on publicly accessible places, in many geographical places and physical media (I do). If you keep your passphrase in your head everything will be fine.
I don't think destroying all means for computation is possible either. It may be possible to greatly reduce them, but that doesn't in itself compromise Bitcoin in any way (at worst it could slow down transactions for some time until it adjusts to a lower difficulty of the calculations and then it's back to normal).
I don't see a reason to create a dichotomous, "if you are not with us you are against us" attitude when it comes to Bitcoin and other good forms of money such as gold. I own gold, silver, bitcoins. In fact all the evidence shows that the central banks are currently selling their physical gold on the market, while maintaining paper positions, which would obviously (and already do, in the case of Germany) fail at some point. They may actually have as little as half of what is publicly stated, which would put them at below 10% of all the gold in the world, as contrasted with their peak in the mid-20th century of, what, 80%-90%?... So them having a relatively small piece of the pie today is actually what I see as an argument in favor of buying gold because every time you buy a currency or money you transfer value to all holders of that currency/money. So today central banks don't see nearly as much benefit from that effect as they did in the past. Furthermore they are shooting themselves in the feet when they manipulate prices lower, since they are the ones that will have to dump physical gold at their own manipulated low prices. So my point is that central banks will reduce their positions even lower before they, or anything that is left of them or whatever comes after them, long time in the future, start to really acquire physical again, which is why it is good to buy now.
incorrect. To destroy bitcoin requires only destroying a majority of the network which had been used for bitcoin which is far, far less than the entire network.
About multiplying information: this gives no security to bitcoin. It's not the replicated storage of bitcoin that gives it strength, it's the ALTERATIONS to the transaction records distributed live across the network. therefore distributed storage is not enough, you need live distributed computation WITHOUT INTERRUPTION and without a competing subnet asserting differing computations as "the right answer". And that's the vulnerability right there.
That vulnerability destroys the credibility & transactibility of every bitcoin in existence all at once.
Bitcoin is just as dangerous to use as money as pennystocks in miners or beaniebabies.
You act like we're comparing COPPER to gold, copper not being a precious metal and not being as "ideal money" vs gold. Bitcoin is nowhere near that safe. Bitcoin is stupid & dangerous to use. it's like giving uranium to children and telling them it's good for them because uranium is a much better source of energy than burning wood - as if teaching young 3 year olds to light wood on fire unsupervised was a viable alternative in the first place.
It's utter insanity.
The network can be restored from a single copy of the blockchain. What we refer to as "bitcoins" (they are intangible, remember?) are actually stored in this blockchain. There are over 500,000 copies distributed across the planet. This is much durable than gold. If my house gets droned, my city gets nuked, my country plowed over with salt, my gold is gone. Not so with Bitcoin. My coins exist and are accessible from any location in the world with internet connection.
The keys to access my bitcoins can be lost, and when they are lost, they are lost forever. Operating as my own bank encumbers me with responsibilities and duties that banks typically perform. My keys are backed up on multiple media in multiple geographic locations.
An analogy: Say I go out to the woods and bury some gold. Only I know that location. If I forget the location, the gold still exists but my access to it is gone.
P.S. where's my $140/Bitcoins you promised?
No such restoration is possible: many copies will exist & will disagree with what you think is the original. There will be no way to verify which one is right.
No analogy is possible: this situation is unique to the weakness of bitcoin's algorithm.
There will be TRILLIONS of copies of the blockchains you don't want, quadrillions if need be. Your mere 500,000 copies will be meaningless.
These are much LESS durable than gold.
Gold must be located, it has no network as a big giant open target for destruction.
Bitcoin doesn't need to be located to be destroyed: the network itself is a part of bitcoin and control / destruction of a majority of it destroys all bitcoins forever.
Be careful when you declare something incorrect. I too had dismissed Bitcoin in the past when the only thing I knew about how it works was what a friend of mine misunderstood but still told me confidently. Only later did I have the time, patience, motivation to actually read informed and technical explanations of how all of its aspects work and realized this thing is much more significant than I had originally thought. Bitcoin is complex, but not too complex to grasp. So I think I used to be in your situation at one point and I think you will eventually want to read many explanations, analyses, technical articles, discussions etc., starting with Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System (original paper by Satoshi Nakamoto). You would also want to check many articles here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Category:Technical, see the known proposed attacks or weaknesses explained here: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses and then follow on and find answers to all questions that remain.
If a majority of the network (by hashing (computing) power or by any other measure) is simply destroyed, meaning unavailable for use, it wouldn't have much adverse effects on the system, except for a short lived, e.g. in the case of a 50% reduction in hashing power it would be at most 4 weeks (assuming the hashrate stays at that level), slowdown of processing of transactions, so it would take 2 hours instead of 1 hour to consider a transaction complete. After at most 4 weeks the difficulty is adjusted to the new hashrate and everything is back to normal. What you probably was thinking about is the so-called 51% attack, where one attacker would need to actually acquire, run and sustain more than 50% of all hashing power. The protocol dictates that "the right answer" for the blocks that get to be included in the blockchain is the ones that are in the branch with the most work done, which typically means the one with the most blocks in it. In other words you can't assert anything without showing the work you've done for it (and even then you don't have much power to deviate from the protocol).
Discussing the 51% attack would be interesting. My opinion is that the incentive isn't there for anyone to attempt this unless maybe if Bitcoin reaches some sort of hegemony of the sort the USD has today, which obviously seems too unlikely and/or distant now. It does need to be watched though, as the Bitcoin community may develop its own politics. If Bitcoin was to ever reach such a hegemonic status some powers might want to recruit 51% of the miners and in effect turn it into a centralized system, at which point all of those who now like it first and foremost because it is decentralized (me included) would obviously not want to have anything to do with it anymore. I think I could live with such a outcome though, as the journey would obviously have been more important than the end.
P.S.: In the previous post I was talking about securely storing your Bitcoin wallet, since that is more critical than storing the blockchain. A Bitcoin wallet is a file that contains the keys to spending coins you own. While the record of ownership is kept in the blockchain, keeping the contents of your bitcoin wallet and keeping it secret is what preserves ownership. Miners already have a strong incentive to store the blockchain, since they are paid for creating it. It doesn't cost much to store it yourself though, even if you don't mine.
Again, you are completely wrong. The remainder of the network would have no btc on it. If any add btc to it that part would get knocked down too.
The blockchain is in fact MOST critical, far more than the wallet. It can't be protected by any means because it requires the network to be live. That weakness means that you must keep MOST of the network live in service to bitcoin OR bitcoin fails. Period.
Wallets mean nothing when they can't communicate to each other & they CAN'T when the bitcoin portions of it are knocked down & replaced with an alternate blockchain. Every wallet becomes invalid all at once.
The computing power to be a "miner" for shitcoin is available MOSTLY to the powers that bank (and NSA). They are perhaps NINETY PERCENT of active btc miners.
You're quoting bitnonense you've read about as if you comprehended it.
I have a computer science degree, do you?
Just to show you how nad-slammed you're going to be, go do a search on these 2 words you never dreamed belonged side by side:
OPTICAL VLSI
You have ZERO of these for bitcoin miners.
Guess who absolutely has this tech.
The kind of network reliability for multiple copies you speak of can't exist for bitcoin.
It can exist for GPG-signed vouchers for goods. For example, if I pledge 1 0.1 oz gold maple with a pgp signed message and a time-stamp in it, you must erase all copies yet you CAN'T fake my signature and even ONE copy will be enough to prove it.
Once it's received it a NEW message with timestamp can be signed to say so & even ONE copy is enough.
No network is required: we can do this disk to disk and share the copies later for others to care about or not at all.
PGP / GPGP keys can be expired or revoked too.
Network vulnerability ZERO. It simply isn't required for the math to work.
Your parallel between the blockchain and PGP/GPG is good. Instead of a digital signature though, the blocks in the blockchain use proof of work, based on partial hash inversion. A digital signature establishes validity through trust in the other party, whereas proof of work in Bitcoin does it through the understanding that validity lies wherever work done is the greatest, so there is no need for any trust relationship with other parties.
Here's a very interesting discussion between Satoshi Nakamoto himself and others in The Cryptography Mailing List just a couple of months before Bitcoin was released. Here he talks about how validity is established:
https://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09980.html
By the way, if digital signatures were in any way able to improve the resilience of Bitcoin, it would be trivial to add them to the protocol. Miners already use private keys to receive the reward for mining a block. Heck, anyone could propose it as a change to Bitcoin or start a new Bitcoin-based currency with any modification. However, Bitcoin takes the approach of not relying on any degree of trust in individual participants.
How and why can one be confident in proof of work?
Miners have a strong incentive to be as close to an agreement as possible about which branch is the valid one, and the proof of work system is a very reliable and fair way to provide that. Sure, it is not possible to have perfect agreement 100% of the time because of physical limitations such as latency or risks such as faults or attacks, but that can be tolerated. This is a hurdle common to distributed systems, called Byzantine Generals' Problem. You only need to be able to establish an acceptably high probability of validity in a finite and predictable amount of time, and Bitcoin does that, so it is Byzantine fault tolerant in that respect.
In this e-mail later in the above conversation this question is raised and I think that this is where you think you see a fatal flaw in Bitcoin.
https://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09995.html
And this is Nakamoto's response:
https://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09997.html
Even one copy of the longest branch can prove that the transactions recorded in it deserve to be considered confirmed. Even if the longest branch is not available, the longest one that is available is considered the right one, and whatever transactions might not have been included in that shorter branch will probably eventually reach another miner and get included in a subsequent block. Keeping these unconfirmed (not yet included in a block) transactions is of course even easier and less critical, because a delay or a fault there is usually not a big deal. The only ones who lose materially are the miners who failed to propagate their blocks.
A potential or an ongoing denial of service attack or disaster happening in the Bitcoin network, affecting many nodes and/or their connectivity, would result in users wanting to wait somewhat longer before considering transactions complete and irreversible. This is not the same as "every wallet becoming invalid all at once", far from it.
Yes, I do.
I bet that you are wrong. Bitcoin is now by far the largest distributed computing effort. It also beats all known supercomputers combined, by some wide margin.
You are talking about optical digital computing, or maybe even optical quantum computing. Both areas are far from producing products commercially competitive to traditional computers.
The idea that governments or some other organizations today have technologies radically more advanced than what the private sector has and sells, and that they are able to keep their mere existence secret is a popular conspiracy theory, a remnant from an era when governments did indeed pull that off from time to time to beat other governments (e.g. atomic bomb, computers for breaking Enigma codes). It is the kind of conspiracy theory that could make someone fear governments if believed - I dismiss those.
It's proof of wasted resources, not proof of work. Work has value. Burning CPU time, burning wood for no reason, burning oil for no reason, etc., is a consumption of net loss. Nothing of value is gained.
The private sector DOES HAVE OPTICAL VLSI it's just not at 100% operational.
You are such a fool. Who do you think pays for those fancy experiments that freeze photonic states in atom-spins and redirects them? Who?
That's not science fiction, that's already a few years OUT OF DATE.
Bitcoin's network is not even 0.0001% of the total super-computing power on Earth. Not even close.
Digital signatures do not AUGMENT OR IMPROVE BITCOIN.
They ERADICATE IT. 1 PGP signature is better than any number of bitcoins at all times because that SOURCE signer has goods & trust levels with others in the market just like distributors & vendors, customers & store owners.
Because bitcoin has no element of trust - none of them can be trusted. The NUMBER OF BITCOINS is not the most trust-needed issue, it's the trade-value.
Could be 10, could be 10 quadrillion, could be a Taylor series or an integral or another fancy algorithm describes how many exist total, maximum - doesn't matter. They are of no VALUE. They don't DO anything. Silver does.
Gold does.
Even dollars do - they keep us in line to our taxation overlords. Doesn't serve you or me but they are required by law & it serves those who made them.
i would agree.
unintended consequences of the gold/silver manipulation.
anything, anything to get away before JPM/the Fed steals it everything we've got....
Blew through $1,200... $1,210... $1,220... What's gold trading at today?
One year ago today, dude sells 60oz of gold for 13,500 bitcoins now worth... about 13,500oz of gold.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
but then down $60 or so for now. Happy turkey day, y'all..
Wanna know how I am sure it's a scam. I've seen 50 offers of Bitcoiners offering free "money" for new converts. How often to gold bugs or silver people offer to send coins to people who are new to investing? I'll tell you...Never. You are just trying to rope new people into the pyramid scam that you entered early. Nothing else. Good luck with that though. You should do we'll because there are always people looking for something for nothing.
I've handed out silver dimes to complete strangers that will listen to my elevator pitch on how the federal reserve works as well, and have given out about 20 1/10 oz eagles to friends and associates. I can't speak for others but my activities on silver, gold, and bitcoin are all motivated by education and undermining fractional reserve banking.
you route VIA the cartel in EVERY network channel they own with FULL exposure of time-stamp & IP address
you're a fool.
You'd need your own private sub-marine cables or satellites or laser-optic connections for your own private network to NOT use the Cartel's resources.
So... just keep using bennybux?
no bennybux = you are in prison
You decide.
For the rest there's gold & silver. Real money, real value, impossible to go to zero.
BTC is none of those good things. Will go to zero, can't be real money. Real money has an atomic nucleus and is made in a star. Beginning, end, period.
Freedom money would be if physical gold supply ran out and the bankers were left holding 60x worth of paper promises, but then along came NSAcoin.
It's still early, boys! Climb aboard!
*cough*
You know, I do remember soemthing about TPTB wanting everyone to ditch money and move to digital.
How different is Bitcoin from a debit card, only the money is kept in the cloud(s)?
DING! DING! DING! DIIIIIIIINNNGGGGGG!!!
If you can't explain that much it is obvious you have done no investigation at all.
Bingo. Larry Summers gave an interview where he discussed the elimination of paper money and the move to all-digital currency. His idea was that then they could start charging negative interest rates because people couldn't cash out their bank accounts and stuff it in their mattress. Anything Larry Summers advocates I am against.
Anchors aweigh!
You don't have to get onboard early to benefit. Once it is stable and accepted you will gert fair value for your trades of goods and labour. The adaptors get the rewards for the risk.
I agree.
And my next trick is to not pull a rabbit from my hat, but 3 sticks of cyriptonite.
Erik Voorhees - The Libertarian Introduction to Bitcoin
...and Gold and Silver continue to get slaughtered
...and Gold and Silver continue to get slaughtered
Yeah, but not forever, The Cartel is not God.
'Gold is money, everything else is credit". J.P.Morgan.
JP Morgan never had detailed control of electrons. His gold and silver electrons just sat there doing nothing. Bitcoins move.
And when they move they really move! People who said that there's nothing like a bull market in silver were saying so before Bitcoin.
barely moved. Slaughtered is silver to 10. Silver to 19.50 is a nudge and it didn't go that far either.
You shouldn't oversensitize yourself to the movement of mere PIXELS at a time on a chart.
Buy your tulips now before they are all gone.
ZeroHedge may be experiencing an ignorance bubble. Tread carefully.
And this is new?
...I'm thinking of getting out, before it pops.
I´m treating it like any other risky investment (such as the stock market) - I sold 10% of my BTC´s yesterday for about $25k. My original investment totaled around $15k, so I bought a Monster box of Silver CML´s and ten 1-oz Pamp Suisse gold bars with $23,700 of the proceeds. From here on in I´ll sell 10% of the remaining balance every once in a while and always immediately convert it to PM. It may not be for everybody, but for me its working out nicely no matter what. Like any investment, the key is ¨Dont get greedy, take profits along the way!¨
Well you are smart and rare, douglas. Most people get blinded by greed and ride parabolic moves both up and down.
And you are the true winner of this mania!
Atleast diversify any of your gains. If you've made a serious return on it but you think it really has the potential others claim it has then just keep a small amount.
Exactly what would the gains be from a huge bubble of ignorance and how would one diversify that shit?
Remember what has happened to SECOND LIFE...
Like a little Swiss Bank in your home.
does anyone have a full list of all the (invisible) crypto currencies currently available?
~~~~
wow......37 different invisible currencies, I think I'll just stick with PM's
Canadian dollar got hammered this week. obviously if I can pay my taxes in bitcoin that would be good.
but you can't & never will.
Give it time, Canada seems quite BTC friendly.
143 listed here, along with their features, where to trade, and mining pools:
http://com-http.us/
If it appears too good to be true...you know the rest.
Really getting scary when insanity is the new normal.
Are you refering to NYC/DC or BTC? What is normal when you have the entire global governmental and banking criminals openly discussing taking your deposits "for the greater good"? You up for that, sweetie?
Right now, it's probably too late to buy bitcoin and litecoin, but there are many other coins that are in early stages of the bubble, like Quarkcoin, Infinitecoin etc.
BTC will be a 50 banger from here, at the minimum. What we are seeing here is not a mania but the dumping of one system for another. It is a revolution in commerce. Someone standing in a buggy whip factory watching people switch to autos may well have said that autos were a fad and a bubble, when in fact they were a replacement for the horse and cart. In the case of BTC you are witnessing first hand the throwing away of one system in favor of another.
Ironically, it's precisely that type of hyperbole and inapt analogy that degrades, rather than supports efforts to get intelligent people on board with Bitcoin.
Indeed.
Everytime BTC comes up I get a visual of inmates getting herded into the 'showers'.
TPTB could not hope for a better result than peoples greed destroying themselves.
+1.
I am all for a real currency alternative that can preserve the value of my efforts (labor... time)... purchasing power. This is speculative. And I expect to see alot of more it as wealth runs scared from desperate governments around the world. Doesn't in any way imply stability.
Plus, desperate governments are not going simply let an alternative to thier game develop and flourish.
So called "intelligent people" will be buying BTC from me for over $100,000 each. Who are your so called "intelligent people"? Bernanke? Obama? Draghi? Someone is offering you a life vest and you are complaining that it doesn't match your fucking outfit. At a certain point the change will be clear to you, then you will act "intelligently" and buy my Satochi for a few pennies a peice. Until then ...
No, here's the timeline of what is going to happen to you:
Feb 2014: Bitcoin hits 10000, Spigot feels really good about himself. Heaps abuse on people on ZH
Mar 2014: Bitcoin collapses to 1200. Spigot mad that he lost so much profit but is still drinking the Kool-aid so doesn't sell
Apr 2014: Bitcoin recovers back to 2000. Spigot crowing once again. Bitcoin is going to 100K bitches.
May 2014: Bitcoin collapses again to 800. Spigot stops posting on ZH. Depression sets in as Spigot realizes he won't be hanging with Warren Buffet.
The Spigot has no pretentions of hanging with intelligent and wealthy people. The Spigot is a lowly turd in the eyes of such wonderful people. The Spigot will, drip, drip, drip, make sure that gains are realized, not in fiat currencies but in real capital, namely energy, land, etc. The Spigot does not trust powerful people to powder its ass. The Spigot accepts that "there is a time and place for everything under heaven", and therefore the Bitcoin will also have its time and place. The Spigot understands what the ElvisDog has written and knows enough and has enough commonsensical sense to assure its affairs are not whipsawed by "the madness of crowds".
Seriously, if you can trade your bitcoin for land or maybe some income-generating business of some kind, then more power to you.
The only thing less likely to attract intelligent people to Bitcoin than the above-mentioned hyperbole, is the type of embarrassing, dogmatic crowing in which you engage.
Seek is one of the few regular contributors to ZH who benefits BC's cause, in blinding contrast you and your ilk. As you know it all already, it is easy to understand why you wouldn't read his posts and recognize the wisdom of his approach.
Perfect, and thank you for your heartfelt rebuke. When you want to buy BTC from me for $100,000 I will be ready first to accept your sincere apology and then will receive your fiat which I will immediately convert into real capital. Until then, adieu.
Let's see if you actually have the balls to back up your tough talk with something of value. We'll each put $10k into an escrow account with a third party overseeing it. If Bitcoin hits $100k first, you take it all. If gold breaks $2000 first, I'll take it. You can even take advantage of the spread, and place five ounces of gold in the account instead of cash.
Looking forward to your excuses for declining the straightforward wager.
So, your game is that if gold goes up by 60% before BTC goes up by approximately 10,000% then you are the winner.
You must work on Wall St or in DC.
My balls are in BTC. I am also invested in physical PMs. I expect PMs to lag BTC by a factor of about 2 to 5 in terms of price increases.
As for your wager...no, you are a manipulative twit for making such a suggestion.
See you when BTC hits $100,000.
Hilarious response, given that you are the one who has repeatedly boasted about the likelihood of BC reaching $100k.
Unsurprisingly, when I call you on the figure, your balls shrink and the boasting is exposed for what it is.
ironic.
Seek foolishly said that Silentcircle was compromised because cell phones were.
It's BTC that's compromised in this manner.
A compromised snooped cell or computer never ever endangers the encryption of My messages on SECURE devices. It's someone else's problem.
But snooped phones & computers compromise the MAJORITY of bitcoin storage & transactions which compromises the ENTIRE CURRENCY.
The irony is delicious.
While seek may have been wrong about that issue, I was speaking of how he supports BC, not vouching for the veracity of every one of his posts.
I find BTC confusing, so I'll just ask this:
How can anything that maxes out at 21 million (if that's the correct #) possibly become any kind of system?
Well, the smallest unit, the satoshi, is 100 millionth of a bitcoin, so the actual limit is 2.1 quadrillion satoshis (pardon if my exponentials are off, staring at decimal places all morning).
Because it's divisable to 8 decimal places.
You're incorrect.
If you were correct you'd see NO price for btc in dollars and LOTS of prices for goods & services in BTC.
That's not happening, not now, not ever.
What you're seeing is a fiat-mania just like all the others before. this will end in btc going to zero.
Buy stocks!...er, BitCoin!
(Need Banzai for the graphic)
Now Junkcoin sounds really tempting !
Junkcoin and BBQcoin are both great! Buy them!
Just judging by the name of these two, I'd bet they're mocking the cryptocurrencies!
Talk about bad marketing. Awful name to attract people.
I'm looking forward to MILF-coin, that I can use to have sex with the hot MILF who lives across the street. She has an identical twin sister too!
OK....I am a fan of bitcoin.
I own it. I own some litecoin.
This is fucking crazy.
Has anyone on here bought bitcoin/litecoin, watched it run up a ton, cashed out, and bought something tangible withthe gains?
I can hear the crickets....
No shit right? Not one "I put in 2k and cashed out 20k and bought a Harley...or a downpayment on a condo in Costa Rica"....
Really? No one has turned these digits into their mid life crisis present?
Take a tip from the banksters. They take that free QE digital deposits and buy real assets.
If the coins go to 1 million each then that's one expensive bike. The trading will happen slowly and only at the point of full acceptance will the system offer low deflation and fair trade value. Right now 20 million for a POS Harley is a "bit" expensive.
thanks for bringing reality to the discussion
Everyone I know is only cashing out enough to pay off any debt that they have. Other than that, they believe in BTC and are in it for the long run.
Yes. Over the past two weeks I have rotated a couple of thousand dollars from BTC into gold and silver.
I sold about a third of my BTC holdings today. Christmas money.
I am a bitcoin-head, but I got burned back in '99. I recogonize this for what it is: manna from heaven.
I will not be shocked if it goes belly up. I will gain if it doesn't.
While this looks like a screaming short at this point, remember that it did at $300, $500, $800, etc.
It is important to see the future and gain from it. It is also important to see that its not always a straight line.
Congrats to you. Nice to see someone keep their head screwed on.
Got a feeling this sort of behavior is going to really get wild over the next few years. Lots of opportunity if people can keep thier heads screwed on.
Great call on Litecoin!
I got that one from my buddy I mentioned, along with a decent amount of the other stuff we talked about. Smartest dude I have probably ever run into Centerline. All the best to you and yours today.
Ah yes, an intelligent answer finally. Thank you.
It's really too early to sell. Even if you bought at $50, this has a lot further to run. It will likely crash but that may be at $10,000 down to $2,500. Where it ends up, who knows? Maybe be worthless but we have not witnessed the mania phase yet so there's definitely more upside here.
"It's really too early to sell. Even if you bought at $50, this has a lot further to run. It will likely crash but that may be at $10,000 down to $2,500. Where it ends up, who knows? Maybe be worthless but we have not witnessed the mania phase yet so there's definitely more upside here."
No offense but I have a bad feeling you are going to look back on that statement and wonder wtf you were talking about, because I have no idea.
By your analysis, the way to play this would be to use credit to buy a massive amount today and sell it next week.
I am sure there is an upside. But just now someone dropped 500 on the market, thin as it is, and dropped it $60. Not a huge loss, and its bouncing back. But that stuff will continue to happen as the ownership rotates out.
This is really no different then a dot com IPO. The early insiders will hold on until they are comfortable bailing, the newbies will rush in at any price.
The big question is whether this is Pet.com or Google.
I know the upside potential might be huge. And I am keeping myself diversified.
But, it is foolish to not be prudent once in a while. When I find myself looking at the chart before I get out of bed in the morning, I think thats being a little too concerned.
My family will have a very capitalist Christmas. The IRS will hate the way I match my trades. So, life will be good.
I'm rotating some into gold and silver. Not many dealers where I'm at and obscene premiums :(
Probably a good move. There could be a little more downside to PMs, but I figure thier time has yet to really arrive.
In very short time the price will exceed 2000/oz and will peak at 3500/oz in the next 24 months before a drop probably to 2500. And another sharp crisis will repeat in the next 5 years unless the mega-crisis hits and it rises to 10k purchasing power in today's dollars.
Except for Fukushima. If all the rods smash together you can expect a price spike in any method of payment for liquor, morphine, cyanide, boats, small planes and sealed containers of food & water.
Everything else: zero or near zero.
Still waiting on your BTC drop to sub-$140 prediction from a couple weeks ago. Yeah, I'm totally taking investment advice from you, buddy. Expecting sub-$1100 on gold before any major climb begins.
you'll be seeing 140/btc very soon and 1400 usd/oz gold, never sub 1100. In the next thousand years that's not happening. The bottom was in at July and that's the end of it.
And then a year later you'll see bitcoin for no more than TWENTY US dollars each.
There's a seller for every buyer.
I asked that question last week fonz.
What happens when everyone tries to cash out at once?