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Bitcoin Now Worth More Than Gold

Tyler Durden's picture




 

UPDATE: ... And then Bitcoin collapses 13% minutes later...

 

It seems the growing tensions in Asia (Japan-China sabre-rattling and Indian capital controls) have prompted more great rotation out of fiat and into digital currency as China/India markets open. For the first time ever, the price of one unit of Bitcoin exceeds the price of an ounce of gold...

 

1 oz of Gold = $1241.98 (Bloomberg)


1 unit of Bitcoin = $1242.00 (Bitcoinwisdom.com)

 

 

 

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Fri, 11/29/2013 - 01:47 | 4198537 l1b3rty
Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:01 | 4198570 flacon
flacon's picture

What the fuck?! 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:12 | 4198596 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Exactly!

All the pumpers around here telling people its a freely traded currency that is... get this, encrypted and shit!

 

Very few people even know why they are buying them, I can't believe people are so stupid to believe a digital code block is worth an ounce of fucking gold. WTF indeed. 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:18 | 4198600 Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

I kinda like how BTC really got a good running start off allowing people to gamble and acquire quality drugs. It kinda gives BTC a nice value floor from that utility.

Who knows if best buy and mcdonalds will ever come around. Not to mention lockheed martin, KBR etc.

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:22 | 4198625 fonestar
fonestar's picture

How many times have we heard "the end of Bitcoin" before it goes on to make new highs a few weeks or a few months later?  Give up or get a clue!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:29 | 4198637 philipat
philipat's picture

Gold would be doing the same if it wasn't being manipulated by the Fed. The attraction of Bitcoin is that it CANNOT be manipulted by the Fed and/or the BIS. In fact, it is probably the ONLY alternative to fiat that cannot be manipulted.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:32 | 4198657 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

WRONG!

As long as the USD is tied to every other fiat currency and as long as there exists an exchange price between BTC and USD, the BTC valuation can be manipulated.  Imagine the Fed printing lets say $1Billion/month into BTC.... then 6 months later, crashing it 50%, followed be 50% over the next 6 months, then another 20%.....

Did the Fed lose anything?  Nope.  They might have netted zero profit.

Did BTC lose anything?  Yep, confidence due to massive cornering of the BTC price and the fact that the Fed sold BTCs continually into the market to eliminate its massive cornering position.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:44 | 4198674 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Watch your welfare-state pipe dreams being defunded in real-time:

 

http://fiatleak.com

 

Doesn't look too much of a "collapse" to me?

 

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:49 | 4198681 magnetic_silver...
magnetic_silver_ideas's picture

The Gold is not a bad investment they said. But It's the Fed's fault it doesn't work they said.

And BitCoin well, doesn't fit into the narrative, so they said.

BitCoin is a conceptualized transaction concept using encryption to acheive its goal. No double spending, no counterfeiting.

How can you kill an idea?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:01 | 4198710 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

For the love of gawd do we really need goldbugs vs. btc bugs?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:35 | 4198799 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Last I checked, God's love doesn't depend on either view. ;-)

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:16 | 4198834 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Good morning my good man, what have you got for me today then?

er, the number 71 sir.

What's that then?

Well, it's the number 71. very popular you know, selling like hot cakes.

Brilliant, how much is it?

One thousand one hundred and twenty four dollars sir,

"One thousand one hundred and twenty four dollars, are you fucking nuts?"

Very popular today sir, just sold number 69 and number 53.

Why so expensive?

Because it's a currency sir.

But you said it was number 71!

Yes but it's not just any number 71, it’s a 'currency' number 71 you see, it's encrypted.

Why'd you encrypt it?

Well, so no one else can have it, obviously.

Ah, I get it. Ok count me in. Here's the cash, now where's the offending article.

It’s in here sir.

Where?

It's inside sir.

OK, so how do I get it out?

Well you jump in a plane and fly to Canada where there's an ATM somewhere that you can take it out from.

Peachy, just peachy. OK, so where can I spend it?

Any one of these places sir

Hmm, not very long is it? Is this just locally?

Kind of, well pretty much kind of worldwide, but it’s growing every day. Of course, most people don't actually 'spend' it, they just hold onto it for a while. If you buy a digital photo frame you’ll be able to look at pictures of nice coins you haven’t got.

I thought it was a currency? How long do I hold onto it for?

Till everyone else wants to get out I suppose sir.

And then it will be worth how much?

Fucking loads sir, very expensive sir, selling like hot cakes.

Sod that, what else have you got?

How about number 71 sir, very expensive, selling like hot cakes?

But I've just bought number 71.

Not in this format sir.

How much is this one?

$1.60 sir.

What? Why so cheap?

Cos nobody wants number 71 in this particular format sir.

Why not?

Because you can’t do anything with this one sir.

So why would I want to buy it?

Because everyone else is going to want to buy it very soon.

Why?

Because it’s the number fucking 71 sir, and there’s only one number 71.

But that’s what you said last time.

Yes but that was in that format. This is different. Different people already own it.

You’re fucking nuts. What else have you got?

This one’s just in sir, very special, it’s gonna sell like hot cakes sir, number 71…

Fuck that, can you get me a cab?

Not unless you’ve got some cash sir…

But I've just spent all  that buying this. I know, can I interest you in this number 71 I’ve just bought?

You must be joking sir, I’ve got billions of those in here…

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:27 | 4198843 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

That's a beautiful story. Timeless.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:00 | 4198867 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

I want to believe.....but I don't.

 

I'm going to run off the cliff with the rest of my firends Mom.....that's nice dear....have fun.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:00 | 4198877 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture

I'm not dead, I feel fine.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:10 | 4198882 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

Bitcoin uses encryption to keep it rare and any encryption can be hacked with enough funding.

Bitcoin challenges a debt based money and banking system where those in control can create standard currency without limit.

It has already been compromised, the question is when and how everyone will find out.

The headline should be "Bitcoin Now Priced Higher Than Gold".

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:17 | 4198910 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

 

I'm bored. When does the next fad hit?

 

Any chance of bringing disco back?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:25 | 4198964 zhandax
zhandax's picture

No, but we can score you some tulip bulbs.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:48 | 4198990 negative rates
negative rates's picture

That first graph looks like there should be some kind of explosion right about....................hold it............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................NOW.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:18 | 4199639 fonestar
fonestar's picture

What is funny is how the MSM is now saying that Bitcoin has "no intrinsic value" (like they really cared about that before?) and pathetic gold bugs (who should really know better) all chime in with them.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:36 | 4198979 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...its the perfect metaphor.

All coked up, the BitMusic is so loud you can't hear someone screaming in your ear, dancing their little hearts out on the BitFloor, watching the dazzling BitLights bouncing off the big disco ball.

Then the power goes out.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:49 | 4198991 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

In case anyone wants the answer as to why it is so hard to buy bitcoin in the U.S. It is because we are idiots.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/11/27/a-prediction-bitcoin-is-doomed-to-fail/

"The developers of bitcoin are trying to show that money can be successfully privatized. They will fail, because money that is not issued by governments is always doomed to failure. Money is inevitably a tool of the state."

"Bitcoin exemplifies some of the problems of private money: Its value is uncertain, its legal status is unclear, and it could easily become valueless if users lose faith."

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:07 | 4199598 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I agree.  And I'm not saying Americans are stupid or anything like that.  Sad to see that a country that really helped pioneer computing and the internet become resigned to take a back seat now.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 23:02 | 4201127 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

"Im not saying americans are stupid" Ill say it, americans are stupid, and I R one

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:23 | 4198965 Pig Circus
Pig Circus's picture

Reminds me of a story in the book "The Forgotten Man". After FDR seized all the gold he would lay on his bed each morning while drink Tea and set the price. He loved the number 7 so he would set it and change it each day at prices like $37.17, $37.27, $37.47 and so forth.

It's from memory and I thought he set the price in the twenties but I read something a few weeks back stating after confiscation he set the price 50% higher. Whatever the price you get the point, the folly and the fraud of it all.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:37 | 4199063 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Sounds like the dollar.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:37 | 4199593 chemystical
chemystical's picture

absolutely fucking brilliant.  i thought i was reading a script of dialogue between John Cleese and Eric Idle.

71.  LOL.  you should copyright that dialogue.  SNL might lampoon Btc 6 months from now.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:50 | 4198995 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

I think the term is Bitcunts.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:03 | 4198716 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

If I was forced to choose, I would choose gold over Bitcoin 100% of the time. That said, I think Bitcoon has a long way to go before we'll know how it ends. Thus, I think it's worth buying a few BTC and enjoy the ride.

If your Bitcoin falls into a lake, it's gone just like that gold everyone lost in the lake.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:37 | 4198759 PP
PP's picture

I can assure you, Chinese government will crack down bitcoin, I don't know time, but this morning a policeman says they are waiting orders from high level. They says people should avoid such "coins" at all

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:02 | 4198777 Lore
Lore's picture

Bitcoin is an outlet for QE: another repository (container) for freshly printed dollars.  RISING BITCOIN IS PROOF OF HYPERINFLATION. IT'S ANOTHER PIECE OF THE BROADER DERIVATIVE BUBBLE ABOUT TO POP.  RISING BITCOIN SHOULD SCREAM TO EVERYONE OF THE URGENCY TO GET THE HELL OUT OF PAPER.

NOBODY HERE CAN SAY THEY HAVE NOT BEEN WARNED.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:16 | 4198786 13Principles
13Principles's picture

Be that as it may.  Why the hell can I not get on any crytpo currency exchanges and trade from the U.S.?  Every time I open an account with every exchange I've found, I go to fund the damn thing, only to be shut down at every avenue due to the fact that I'm in the U.S. and their exchange doesn't work with "my country".  This FACTA bullshit is bringing the iron cutain down, and soon, we and our money won't be able to get out of the country.  Easy to get in, impossible to get out.

Any help out there would be appreciated.  I'm about to just sit back and watch this whole thing sink until they come for me and my sh--, stuff.  Mmmm, popcorn!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:23 | 4198790 kushmere
kushmere's picture

I really like Havelock Investments for trading, not so much for converting usd/btc. For that I like Btc-e. On a side note, I pray to god this bubble collapses soon. If it bottoms at anything over $250 I will call it a massive win in the long run. Been in since 2010. 

http://bestbitcoinsites.wordpress.com

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:45 | 4198813 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Difference between Bitcoin and Dot Com?

Bitcoin didn't need sock puppets to draw the suckers in...

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:20 | 4198927 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Seriously?  Really? The only sockpuppets I see around here are the bitcoin bashers.  Now try to get your mind around this one.  Virtually everyone I have told to get into Bitcoin since 2011 is up thousands and thousands of percent.  All they have to do is trade 1% of their bitcoins for gold and they are even, dead even.  Get it?  Most are already just letting pure profits ride.  And now the Chinese want them ALL, and they are getting them too.  Some people can never admit they were wrong.  I suppose there are still people making buggy whips somewhere waiting for that automobile craze to fail.  ROFL.

The Bitcoin Channel

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:07 | 4199015 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Hubris?  Fiftybagger, I think its great that you did the smart thing and got your initial investment out.  That said I need some more information.  I see the supporters of bitcoin saying things like “just buy” and “you just don’t understand”  Ok then make us understand.  Why is it not possible for the Government to own a huge market share of Bitcoin and hit it as times of low liquidity?  Why can’t the government simply say retailers must have the name and SS # of all people that purchase with bitcoin simply for capital gains reasons, or just make a law that US retailers cannot accept bitcoin?  Why is the encryption so strong that not only can it not be broken now but 10 or 15 years into the future?  Being only 4 years old how do we know that any multitude of weaknesses might not arise in the future? 

 

No one said you can not make money in a bubble.

 

It is a fools game to invest in something you don’t understand.  It has been proven over and over.  If you cannot drill these questions down you cannot invest.  You can speculate, and that is fine but investment is not possible without full understanding of the fundamentals.  I love that you have made money and hope you have diversified but I just hope if bitcoin gets crushed you are not demoralized and can swap to possibly a different way of fighting the corrupt monetary powers.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:11 | 4199157 tmosley
tmosley's picture

BWH: First, there are no periods of low volume in BTC.  It is an electronic market that is traded 24 hours a day on NUMEROUS exchanges, foreign and domestic.

The FOREIGN part is the important one.  BTC doesn't have a nationality.  It crosses borders better than air does.  If some tyrannical goobermint decides to clamp down on BTC, you can simply take them elsewhere.  If transactions in BTC are not allowed in one country, you can transact in another, or even better, make use of the p2p aspect and do it under the radar.

This is no more a bubble than were the real estate prices of the land in the midwest when it was first being settled.  The first pioneers laid claims to gargantuan tracts of land, later ones were able to get their hands on hundreds of acres for pennies, then tens of acres for dollars, until finally it entered bubble territory just a few years ago with millions for a zero lot line McMansion.  Even with the real estate crash, those prices will never go back to the kinds of prices you saw during the early days.

As to the strength of the encryption--it isn't that it it is encrypted, it is that the encryption problem becomes ever more and more difficult to solve.  You need to apply more computing power to it than has been applied throughout its entire history to replace the blockchain and hijack funds.  Contrary to the belief of some, our government is not run by hyperadvanced aliens, so it really isn't a problem.

BTC has a place in every inflation-adverse portfolio, but probably not more than 5% or so, due to its risk as an unproven currency.  The risk/reward is pretty good though, so long as you don't do something stupid like buying the all time high.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 11:22 | 4199436 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

First on your comment that there is never low liquidity on the numerous Bitconi exchanges.  Compared to most of the markets that the government openly dabbles in and successfully manipulates Bitcoin markets are always low volume.  The mortgage market is 10 trillion and the fed has that well below market rates, treasuries market, 17 trillion, and same thing.  So no dice there.

Comparing bitcoin to real estate is a bit of a streach don’t you think.  That land you speak of gives us everything from food to oil and gas, space to build shelter, raw materials, ect ect ect. 

As far as the encryption, it sounds like you are talking about the mining algorithms getting harder and harder for mining.  What I am curious about is if someone at some time will be able to trick your computer or wallet into thinking what they are paying with a bitcoin but it is counterfeit. Your comment that just because 12 billion dollars worth of people believe that it can not be hacked doesn’t hold water for me, most of those people that “believe” that it is secure believe that because they have been told it is secure, not because they believe the security. Those that actually do understand Bitcoins security, and own them have a vested interest in convincing people that they are secure, if they think they are or not.

I do not think the government is anything special “hyperadvanced space aliens” but they do have a lot of computing power so they could have grabbed a huge market share with that alone, and could have bought a lot too.  If they control a large part of the market they can do what they wish.

I’m not trying to bash or argue just trying to wrap my mind around this thing.  I had contemplated getting in in the past but never did, purely as a speculation, but I’m no longer interested.  With close to ¾ of the world market valuation of all the silver in the world, a proven store of value, money, and happens to be the second most useful material on earth I’d say Bitcoin is getting too rich for my blood. 

By all means keep discussing though.  I’ll keep an open mind.

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:23 | 4199665 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Oh to your point about its portability and ability to take it across boarders without impediment.  This is a good one and the one and pretty much only hard benefit to bitcoin.  Though its threat is to all government so don’t be surprised if they clamp down all at once and you have a hard time finding a good place to go to.  In addition, though I would flee if things got really bad I see a small chance of leaving the good or bad ol’ USA. 

Finally if y’all new bitcoin millionaires do what I think is smart and cash out now, pay your capital gains.  You can talk all day long about how it’s anonymous, but I have a feeling they might figure this one out.  Even if they can’t find out directly, and you only claim 40k on your tax return, but somehow buy a Ferrari they are going to want to know how you pulled that off.  You could be right all day long with Bitcoin but they won’t help you in jail.

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:55 | 4199745 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

The fiat price, be it of PM or Bitcoin, is a distraction. They make the money, so of course they can create all they want and dump it out of helicopters. What they can't do is take away your bitcoins. You are in control of them. With just a bit of doing they are very very secure, portable and private.

Sure, we might be paid in fiat, have debts in fiat, pay taxes in fiat. But we all know that we can and should ween ourselves off of that system, create our own systems of valuation and transact in those systems. PM can do that. Bitcoin can do that. Farmland can do that. It's not an "investment." It is an alternative.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:18 | 4199192 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Re: gov't manipulation the general strategy, as with any asset class, is to sell unto ceaser at the highs and buy from ceaser at the lows.

Re: encryption, $12billion (minus the dumb money) says it can't be done.

There is plenty of other information out there if you invest in a search.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:32 | 4198797 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

We can't get an AR-10 for any amount of USD while you can pick one up from the corner store ???

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:38 | 4198803 indygo55
indygo55's picture

I had the same problem. Thankfully I was able to buy some bitcoins in April from Mt Gox. I had a Dowalla wallet and was able to transfer my US dollars to Mt Gox and buy Bitcoins. I promptly downloaded them into my PC and transferred them to a thumb drive. But the DHS banned Dwolla from doing that again in May I believe. I emailed them and they said they could no longer transfer through that network but would not specifically answer why they stopped. Read a blog somewhere that DHS was stopping any method to fund a Bitcoin transaction in the US and gagging them about why. 

 

So far there is no way to buy Bitcoind from the US.  My bank will not allow a wire transfer to BTC-E or any other exchange that exchanges Bitcoins. So we are effectively blocked from participating here in the US. Unless anyone else out there knows a way, we have been blocked. 

 

I am looking on craigs list and there is a small market to buy and sell locally. 

 

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:41 | 4198809 wintermute
wintermute's picture

coinbase is the best place to buy in the US, although they keep running out of btc...

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:17 | 4198836 13Principles
13Principles's picture

Thanks for the tip.  Unfortunately, like you said, they are out until Dec. 5th.  Bitcoin seems lucrative to buy on the declines, but I'd love to get into the other less known currencies (namecoin, feathercoin, etc.), but I guess my stinking American ass is just not worthy...  :)  I do so love actually living in 1984.  I guess I'll just stick with starting a revolution! Much easier, dontcha' think?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:36 | 4198975 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Anyone know how many processing hours it takes to 'mine' one these days, or is everyone too busy trading them?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:28 | 4199241 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You don't really want to know that information. 5,351,666 GH/s

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:51 | 4199349 babkjl
babkjl's picture

Current market state: my son just bought $1,000 worth of AISC miners to replace his GPU miner to get an 18 gigaghash rate. This gets him about 0.013 Bitcoins per day.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:13 | 4199547 zhandax
zhandax's picture

IOW, it's not really worth it in terms of normal circumstances?  Now for a novel question....if you had a lot of computers that you burned-in and imaged an OS, how would you calculate a little additional time for hash-tag burn-in vs the return?  I suspect I see the means, but this will be a useful check if I understand correctly.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:33 | 4199689 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Botnets were cool for mining BTC a while ago... infiltrate home PCs and servers and make them mine for you.  Asics are levels beyond home CPUs/GPUs for mining.  Nowadays it is more profitable to rent botnets out to perform DDOS attacks.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 16:47 | 4200401 Goner
Goner's picture

I cant vouch 100% for the links, they were just the first ones I found but there are several places you can get a very rough idea. Also the number of computers is not the critical factor for bitcoin in fact that increases overhead (power) for example the last wave of miners were computers with several graphics cards installed and the graphics cards did the mining as they were faster. Now special chips (ASIC's) are used to mine at the top end

But here are a few links to get you started

This has a java download you can use to test your machine to see its hashrate.

https://bitminter.com/test

This will help you determine if you can make money

http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/

I have not looked at this since the huge ramp up in price but its tough to make money at with hardware laying around unless you can get free power and free machines. There are a LOT of factors that will reduce your returns even further so make sure you understand them (see the bottom of the second link for an idea)

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:44 | 4199311 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Coinbase puts that message up but they actually come back into coinage on a regular basis after a few hours.  Keep checking back with them.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:23 | 4199213 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Yeah, if you are still in the states and tied the U.S. financial system you are pretty much bumpkiss.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:12 | 4198925 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"Be that as it may.  Why the hell can I not get on any crytpo currency exchanges and trade from the U.S.?"

You've asked a very important question, and the answer is:

Crypto-Currencies Will Destroy The Banksters' Monopoly On Money

The Bitcoin Channel

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:54 | 4198996 zhandax
zhandax's picture

You mean artificial, politically-inspired supply choke-points can affect price?   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_Ra5LUh6ng

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:01 | 4199275 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Nice one. I want to tip you.  On reddit you can transfer bitcoin via comments.  Maybe someday ZH will catch up to 2013. Up and down arrows are so 2012.

+/u/bitcointip @zhandax 1 beer verify

 

When people contact me via localbitcoins.com I get BTC into their hands, charging a modest premium over the price I can acquire on the exchanges I am connected to. The profits I randomly stash into BTC, fiat, or Phyz.  My personal stash of BTC I keep separate and am pretty paranoid of never seeing that quantity diminish (maybe I'll sell one at $5000).

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:16 | 4199024 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Just run down to your local coin shop in the mean time and snatch up some gold or silver. Or you can send me some BTC when you finally get up and running. I also accept real-time turkey dinners.

19umPP3e8d3hr7kyLdHopdwQ7ADCDZswmg

(Didn't know the US of AID was having such difficulties. Interesting...)

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:56 | 4198770 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

We know how it ends: once they've pumped BTC high enough and feel like they've sucked out enough from the gullible nerds, expect a "revelation" that the integrity of SHA256 encryption has been compromised by some entity. Simultaneously watch all those BTC exchanges disappear in a cloud of smoke.

I also suspect that Snowden has some information on the relations between shadow gov. and cryptocurrencies and those papers will never see the light of day as agreed upon his asylum visa deal. Kremlin has got them all though; consider that as Putin's tactical advantage. Makes you wonder why no RUB is being exchanged for BTC according to fiatleak's data.

 

Happy Thanksgiving to all my 'Merikan friends!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:01 | 4198778 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes, sounds just like a Tom Clancy novel.  I think you've got it all figured out there.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:05 | 4198780 Lore
Lore's picture

Yep. 3WD probably nailed it.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:43 | 4198810 indygo55
indygo55's picture

Take a look at the link below. Europe and Russia seem to be having the time of their lives with Bitcoin and Litecoin too. Dont know where you got that Snowden story from. 

 

https://btc-e.com/exchange

 

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:57 | 4199354 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I doubt NSA hackers are any better than freelance hackers.  Cracking bitcoin would be the The Ultimate for any hacker (short of launching WWIII). If hacker A secretly cracks bitcoin he immediatly crashes it for profit because hacker B is breathing down his neck. And at least a little bit of smart money says it can't be done.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:15 | 4199624 chemystical
chemystical's picture

 

 

ANY time that you type or say or think "Bitcoin" as a concept then you MUST substitute "cryptocurrency".  At this stage anything less is intellectual dishonesty and - in the instance of the investor class - self delusion.

For example,

"That said, I think Bitcoon has a long way to go before we'll know how it ends" should in all honesty be re-written as:  "That said, I think cryptocurrency has a long way to go before we'll know how it ends"

or

"Bitcoin is our best hope of unshakling ourselves from central banksters" etc etc etc

Failure to do so is not tulipmania...it's flowermania.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:49 | 4198682 SonOfSoros
SonOfSoros's picture

So you want an alternative to fiat that cannot be manipulated when you measure "manipulation" in terms of fiat currency gains?

 

What?

 

Your logic, I don't get it. 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:08 | 4198725 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin started from zilch, like tiny little maggots on the dead carcass of a debt-fueled fiat system.  Bitcoin finds it convenient to eat that carcass while transforming into a beautiful butterfly.   

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:06 | 4198883 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

From zilch you come....and into zilch you will go.

 

The good news is it won't even leave a trace of dust. All we are is zilch in the wind.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:47 | 4198765 PP
PP's picture

you don't know at all that one of most liquidated "coins" in China, it is not Bitcoin, it si Yuan Bao coin, using same aglo, developed by Chinese, and all Chinese font...................this is the best way to manipulate bitcoin, that is creating more similar coins and instead it......

for P2P payment, all coins are same,

for store value and trading, er.........ACTUALLY depend on which coin will be accepted by transcation website, not depend on Coin itself

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:10 | 4199148 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

All coins are not the same and are not interchangable.  It is easy to copy the code, but people have to use it.  Also, there is plenty of space for many of these currencies.  You could make a similar argument by saying that the dollar is dominant so all other countries should give up.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:03 | 4198717 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

At least three ways bitcoin can be manipulated.

The NSA backdoor to the hashing functions it designed

Painting the tape

Colluding miners

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:10 | 4198726 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:26 | 4198752 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

philipat    "The attraction of Bitcoin is that it CANNOT be manipulted by the Fed and/or the BIS."

 

Comment:

But it can be manipulated and it doesn't matter if it is by the BIS or Fed.

What you and most don't see is that bitcoin is a limited market. In fact, because of the very fact that bitcoins are designed to limited in nature opens the possibility for one to corner the market and manipulate it to an even greater extent. The same cannot be said of something like gold. Even when there is a limited supply of gold, there is always a possibility of new discoveries. That isn't possible with bitcoins by design.

Trading one central banker such as the FED for anther central banker (one holding vast amounts of bitcoin and manipulating it) isn't the much better. Just because one isn't part of the FED of BIS, doesn't mean they don't have the same intentions.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:14 | 4199173 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

An interesting point.  Probably more true with Bitcoin than with other things.  That said, everything is limited and controllable.   Like gold, there is always  a possibility of diamond discoveries, but De Beers manages to control the market.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:32 | 4199678 chemystical
chemystical's picture

"there is always a possibility of diamond discoveries, but De Beers manages to control the market."

Precisely.  Note that you wrote "market" not "mine/source".  You're likely aware that De Beers buys mines (i.e.buying the competition) that show promise of yield...and they shut them down to prevent yield from ever coming to market. 

Market is a far more complex construct than, say, blockchain or Btc.  You also need to account for product placement in movies and television to convince every woman that the measure of her man's love for her can be measured by the size and quality of the diamond that he gives her.  (A notion that is very recent on the human timescale).  You need to account for having a de facto tribal monopoly on distribution.  etc etc. 

The point here is that the value of Btc is reliant on marketing (including hype), distribution, etc.  Diamonds aren't the rarest gemstone in the world and they aren't the costliest to mine and cut.  What you paid for when you put that ring on your fiance's finger is a lot of hype and artificial scarcity.  And when Joe Sixpack leaves the retailer with that ring its resale value plummets.  Imagine that.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:30 | 4198641 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

We'll see when DCRB makes a trade.

Until then I'm out.

 

Stack On

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:30 | 4199043 Martel
Martel's picture

We'll see when DCRB makes a trade. Until then I'm out.

You'll be out for quite some time. I bet hedge funds and wealthy individuals see those coins as a private placement opportunity. If not, bitcoin's market cap is 15+ billion, it can absorp any stolen coins DCRB can come up with.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:27 | 4198971 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

Bitcoin, appears to be a direct threat to the US dollar, but the Government is talking nice about it.  Does that make any of you nervous? I take it most of you believe that the Government is not above manipulating markets.  The fed does it openly in the MBS, and treasuries, manipulation is the only reason for the plunge protection team.  LBJ told the American people not to hoard silver after the demonetization in ’64 or he would sell the US stockpiles and crush the market.  Greenspan said the Fed was using gold leasing, LIBOR, ect ect.   You really think they are going to let this little libertarian dream of yours fly without a major fight.  So how do you get them, computing power right?  Ok who has the most computing power, the US gov right.  Well they probably got a huge market share that way.  Or you can buy them right?  Guess who has more money than you, yep the US gov.  Target? shoot, the gov could make a law that retailers couldn’t accept bitcoin and that’s that, follow it up with flooding the market and the game is over.  Please tell me how you know the US Gov doesn’t own 50 or 60%, 80 or 90% of the market right now.  You have not made any money until you sell so be careful. 

 

Will you have the emotional fortitude to fight by using gold and silver after you go through the emotional rollercoaster of getting in early in bitcoin, becoming a millionaire, then going back to zero.  TPTB are betting you won’t.

 

Bitcoin has ¾ of the market cap of world wide silver reserves, is 4 years old, and no one knows its weaknesses and vulnerabilities. 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:23 | 4199209 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

It's worse, it attacks the revenue of every country since (while everybody knows it is pseudo anonymous) it can be used anonymously if used correctly.

Half of the coins are already mined.  The US government could mine their own, but if would be far simpler to just help "protect" everyone and "regulate" the market.

It may be a losing battle to fight fiat, but it's worth fighting with gold, silver and Bitcoin.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:47 | 4198856 q99x2
q99x2's picture

When I saw the run up to 900 on Nov 19 and then the correction and the cup with handle form and then the breakout, it reminded of what free markets were like before the FED took them over.

Now on fiatleak.com I see all the partial, smaller...little baby bitcoins spreading throughout the world and it reminds me of how the galaxies formed and gave birth to the planets moons, the oceans and us.

Here little bitcoin. Here little bitcoin. Awh i dropped my little baby. Come here. Don't cry. Daddy loves his little bitcoins.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:40 | 4198904 fx
fx's picture

given the speed at which this new universe evolves, we are likely just a couple weeks or months away from the giant supernova that blows it all up and sucks it all in again. a giant black hole in the making.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:17 | 4198606 Handyman
Handyman's picture

Black BitSwan

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:21 | 4198615 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Bitcoin is doomed - TPTB will take it down.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:23 | 4198627 mantrid
mantrid's picture

sheeple will take it down

when they run out of steam

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:23 | 4198629 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Good luck with that.  TPTB are doomed.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:59 | 4198702 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

You gravely underestimate the lengths people in power are prepared to go in order to extend that power. Even more so to preserve it.

I get the feeling you believe you're somehow beating the system just because you found a virtual pathway to transfer worthless bits about. I'm sorry, but as long as we're required to pay taxes in fed issued notes, we're still slaves to the system.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:18 | 4198787 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

why so many of you beaten housewives cry all day here??  you are a sack of shit not worth holding any value

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 05:44 | 4201552 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

lol

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:14 | 4198784 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

"Good luck with that. TPTB are doomed."

I'm not into bitcoins but I so much wish You are right

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:53 | 4198941 artless
artless's picture

Fonestar,

I love your optimism "TPTB are doomed". Really I do. And yes, currencies WILL play a part IF and when that doom comes to pass.

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut...and it's a big, big but

TPTB still have all the guns.

Okay better stated, the tanks, bombs, armies, police (but I repeat myself) and the WILL to use them. See a couple dead MidEast heads of state who dared even think about trading their oil in anything but FRNs.

Do you really think that the investigation vs Silk Road was/is about drugs?

I wish the best for the Bitcoin thingy. I think it might be the foundation of what Bucky dreamt up decades ago. Do I regret not having bought in last Spring? Of course. But then I also regret not having scraped up about $10,000 to put into APPL back in 1996 when I told a Merril Lynch friend who said "it's a dog,,,going nowhere...waste of money" that APPL would explode. Kinda a no-brainer since it was just after Jobs came back. But contrast that to the fool buying APPL recently at over $700 IN AN INFLATED MARKET. If I had a grand to potentially lose I would get a BTC. BUT there is a tone of speculative funny money flooding in right now and it WILL correct, people will bail, lose their nerve, etc. Will it affect the folks who "built" it by going in in single digits and actually using the stuff. Probably not. Just like the folks who bought gold in the $250-$300/ounce range won't care/don't much care when gold takes a hit from 1800 down to 1200.

Just remember that a full on currency collapse / societal collapse is probably what is needed for TPTB to actually be doomed. And in that scenario the loss of power or at the very least frequent outages should be expected. BTC has a problem without that little thing called AC.

And guess who controls THAT.

Oh and the control that other thing BTC depends on The Interwebs.

Based on your comments you must be LOADED by now. Good for you. Spend it wisely.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:31 | 4198645 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Perhaps, but considering the FBI claims to have cracked Bitcoin's encryption... it might be useful to TPTB now.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:34 | 4198661 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Oh they did hey?  Links?  Sources?  Can't do it hey? 

Stick to what you know because Bitcoin is way over most of your heads.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:51 | 4198688 geminiRX
geminiRX's picture

Bitbugs

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:47 | 4198814 indygo55
indygo55's picture

Really! and YUP!! 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:44 | 4198908 fx
fx's picture

online retailers likely can't await to accept bitfiat. you sell your goods for 1 BTC and next thing you know, this stuff is worth 30 % more or less in paper fiat than the minute before. Oh, you wanted to retail, not gamble - too bad. the more and the faster this bitshit rises, the sooner it will be gone again. Bitcoin, litecoin= the 21st century's tulip bulbs.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:17 | 4199183 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They can't.  All they can do is force it offshore and underground.

This situation is very much like a return to free banking, only the government really doesn't get much of a say in the matter.  If the same dynamics come into play here as they did during that era, we are looking at a new golden agesupported by a foundation of competing currencies.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:19 | 4198609 carlin401
carlin401's picture

The fuck heads are pimping BTC's did not buy them, they minded them for free, long ago.

ZH has been getting BTC dontations for the past 2+ years, so they're now sending on quite a bit, so they want to pump the bitch to the max,

Like I said "PLease ZH, dump it now,... if you can"

But IHMO I don't think there is a market for BTC's, in the real world, let's say ZH dump's their BTC's at 'coinbase', most are/were 'tainted' back to 'silk-road', that means that ALL of the ZH account ( personal money co-mingled gets nabbed as well ), ... thus ZH now has a problem, they can only pray, ...

Regarding taking your BTC's out at another bank, well you be ID'd there by INTERPOL too, ... no where safe out of 'hotel californa', aka bitcoin.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:22 | 4198619 seek
seek's picture

Where, pray tell, can you donate to ZH in bitcoin? Please point to the page or a comment where Tyler has posted a donation address.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:29 | 4198646 fonestar
fonestar's picture

BTFBitD and you will be glad you did!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:20 | 4198796 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

No market?  I sold a few today at reasonable prices via localbitcoins.com.  Best prices are from cash transactions.  Traceable only if they reconstruct the trades by sifting through the text messages.  Most paper pushers aren't smart enough for that.  Example:  They don't touch identity theft.

Interpol can eat a bag of dicks re: coins that have been through Silk Road.  While on Silk Road crack, I gave my thumb drive to a one-eyed tranny hooker for an amazing eyesocket root.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:20 | 4198614 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Oh, "collapse" my ass.  Ever heard of a pull back? 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:23 | 4198630 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

`Twas just one trader dump 2k coins.  Could have made more fiat spacing it out.  Then again a guy with 2k coins to throw around don't give a fuck.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:33 | 4198662 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Gee, where have I heard that before?

 

Stack On

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:15 | 4198892 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I'm sticking with tulips....especially the rare ones.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:31 | 4198650 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

LOL

Yeah, when Bitcoin falls a few bucks after rising 5000%, ZeroHedge calls it a "collapse".  When gold steadily falls for 2 years straight, they call it "manipulation by paper".

 

Funny how they are insistent on making a commodity that's so easily manipulable the basis for the global financial order.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:01 | 4198708 in4mayshun
in4mayshun's picture

We'll see how well Bitcoin holds up when banks can naked short it with unlimited fiat.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:07 | 4198724 SpykerSpeed
SpykerSpeed's picture

Probably just as well, because Chinese banks can buy it with their unlimited fiat.  ;)

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:26 | 4198791 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

endless whiny bitchez bitchez

 

whatever happened to the old Gold Bitchez mantra???   that's right, gold died

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:34 | 4198850 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Perhaps that shows the percentage of the user base going on fads vs. not.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 22:28 | 4201043 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

not sure about that..  i think they are sore losers.

 

if they were just front runners, they would of all hopped on the Bitcoin wagon by now

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:05 | 4198718 SonOfSoros
SonOfSoros's picture

Manipulable? What?

Oh you mean manipulation in terms of fiat value? The very measure of value you want to escape from?

Say what?

People want a fiat alternative but measure value of the alternative with fiat?! Heresy!

You can't manipulate gold, you can only manipulate the fiat value of gold. 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:12 | 4198731 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Looks like profit taking to me.

Speaking of which.... My litecoins are fucking hard to sell.....

I'll get there after this dip.

BUY LITECOIN PEOPLE FORGET BTC LTC IS THE CURRENCY OF THE FUTEURE AND AN ACT OF GENIUS.

(*disclaimer* I may or may not profit from any person buying ltc)

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 15:08 | 4200168 Matt
Matt's picture

Litecoins are SO last year. Zetacoins are the future! or ASIC-Coins maybe. I know, Unobtanium is perfect for those of you looking for something rare. Only 250,000 will ever exist, and only 1 is created per block! For you my friends, special deal, to get you started on stacking; one UNO for one BTC.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:45 | 4198812 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

it is unbelievable ... up 50% in few days then down 10 and it is some sort of cataclysim.   Yes it is still a thin market and when someone cashes in a big chunk it pushes it down momentarily ... never lasts long and is eagerly scooped up by those sitting on the sidelines waiting for an entry point. This is good as a single holder is replaced by many unconnected individuals.

Just put a grand of casiono money into it and get on board ?  The wider the spread the sooner it will be less volatile.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:42 | 4198857 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's not exactly a pullback. Probably 1 bitcoin owner who tried to sell 1 bitcoin.

IT'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SOLD!!! YOU BUY IT AND KEEP IT!!!!

AND THAT'S HOW WE PONZI!!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:22 | 4198624 mantrid
mantrid's picture

"encrypted and shit" is the new "5000 years old and shit".

 

very few people ever knew why there were buying silver or gold too before it plunged. it's not that they all read Mises and stuff.

the shit was going up. that's it.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:59 | 4198776 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin has historical store of value on it's side.  If I were a gambling man with some extra cash maybe I would own some gold as well.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:21 | 4198895 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

If you truly believed....you would sell all and follow the Winklevosses.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:27 | 4198640 Jaspergers
Jaspergers's picture

One thing I can't get my head around re bitcoin is how to value it due to it's very short history. You can look at a 100+ year chart of the gold/silver ratio, gold/housing, gold/oil, dow/gold, money supply etc and say "ok, I think it's still undervalued here. I'm going to buy until it reaches these targets." You can even say ok JC was sold out for this much silver, or a roman soldier was paid 1/10 oz per day or whatever.

So bitcoin could go to $1 or it could go to $1M, but I can't get myself to "invest" for the above reason.

 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:34 | 4198663 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Uh, Bitcoin has been around since way back in 2009.  You call that new?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:46 | 4198678 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Laugh Out Loud

 

Stack On

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:02 | 4198713 in4mayshun
in4mayshun's picture

A currency that has been around since 2009?

Ya, I'd call that new.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:48 | 4198766 fonestar
fonestar's picture

So what would you call TCP/IP?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:11 | 4198833 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

A man made protocol.  Let me know when it appears on the periodic table.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:50 | 4198863 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Klink.

Boom.

Headshot.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:54 | 4198898 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Klink knows IT.

 

Bet he doesn't try that again.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:11 | 4198924 JoBob
JoBob's picture

Klink:  That comment needs to be immortalized in stone!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:51 | 4198938 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

+1000.  Ah the Joys of reading ZH comments.  A ray of sunshine in a really crazy world!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:57 | 4198773 Jaspergers
Jaspergers's picture

What in4mayshun said.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:03 | 4198715 Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

Most of the rocks on this planet's surface are in excess of 2 billion years old. Anything else is "new." 2009? Really? Fone, sometimes you are confusing.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:59 | 4198944 artless
artless's picture

Okay now I'm getting to think you are the new MillionDollarBonus and THE sarc master.

Ahhh, 2009 the good old days.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:37 | 4198666 mantrid
mantrid's picture

exactly, there's no connection to the real world (other than drugs?), no reference for entry/exit planning, no metric to follow, even comparison to gold price is absolutely arbitrary, one cannot make a trading strategy with all this, one can only gamble like in casino

sheeple turned bitcoin into grand lottery

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:28 | 4198793 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

and Wall Street, etc all financial anything hasn't already gone casino???

 

haters be hating and missing boats

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:51 | 4198687 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You are not alone. Nobody knows how to properly price bitcoin yet.  Participate in the market or don't, who cares.  Your lack of participation will keep the price down a tiny little bit.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:40 | 4198808 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Methinks its anonymity might hold some psychological power. If it's untraceable, then that is a major plus for it over gold.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 04:48 | 4198815 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Look, I like PM and have more phyz than is wise for a well-balanced portfolio. Even so...

Those gold shills who bitch & moan about "gold prices being manipulated" cannot be serious. You have to question their intelligence or their agenda: If there's one thing your parents or the Tylers and ZH writers SHOULD'VE told you, it is that "EVERY asset of value has or will be manipulated at one time or another, or as often as possible, and that it will be manipulated by people/parties who have the Motive, Means and Opportunity".

And as to "manipulation", I'd rather that libertarian market forces select the winners and losers, than the central planners of FRN fiat or central planners of PM manipulation (central banks, or billionaire manipulators and their Pump & Dump games". For obvious reasons, both parties hate Bitcoin.

Fuck you, fiat printers and gold manipulators!
A plethora of peer-to-peer cyber currencies are gonna kick your crony, fraudster ass. REAL libertarianism at work, baby!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:04 | 4199133 MieleBauknecht
MieleBauknecht's picture

Gold? You mean old analog bitcoin! It's just another scarce thing.  Can't believe a few arranged atoms is worth a SHA-2 hash of bitcoin! 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 13:15 | 4199808 itchy166
itchy166's picture

How many migrant workers are there in the world who send money back to their country of origin? They can do it in bitcoin without a transaction fee or a tax grab.

Try sending an ounce of gold to your family in the Phillipenes, good luck.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 17:30 | 4200492 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Bitcoin is just another example of Dot-Com Bubble 2.0

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 22:52 | 4201109 Philligan
Philligan's picture

Its not, but gold shouldnt be worth $1250 either, its being held down.

 

BTC however noone has a clue what the real valuse is. But it is very intriguing to say the very least. 

 

Gold will hopefully break down lower because anything under $1100 would be a once in a lifetime buy. Maybe we will even get lucky and get it at $1000 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:59 | 4199370 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Here we go with the Catalyst for Gold and Silver prices on the backdrop of Japan/U.S. and China Air Cold War style escalation, India is slashing Gold and Silver tariffs unable to fight the smuggling in the country.

 

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/government-interventions-in-gold-mar...

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:32 | 4198541 TheHound73
Fri, 11/29/2013 - 01:50 | 4198542 Bear
Bear's picture

Should I trade my real coins for bits?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 01:55 | 4198551 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I won't offer you advice on how to manage your investments.  But exactly one year ago a guy traded 60oz for 13,500 BTC.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:40 | 4198671 fonestar
fonestar's picture

And I bet he is laughing now.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 02:54 | 4198690 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

But exactly one year ago a guy traded 60oz for 13,500 BTC.

Hopefully that 'guy' was you, cheers.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:12 | 4198771 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Sadly, no.  Got in after the Cyprus crash thanks to ZH reporting of those events.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:01 | 4198824 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If so, it means that he sold his gold at near record highs, while ZH kept up its "Gold forever!" mantra.

Funny how those who demand that TPTB be honest enough to admit when they are blatantly wrong, but then have their own excuses about the end of gold's bull run.

And how ironic (hypocritical!) to spout on about "free markets" and "decentralized currencies", but the minute cyber currencies appear, they change their tack into an attack. Pffff!

Rhetorical Q: How do you spell "Phonies"?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:35 | 4199273 Tinky
Tinky's picture

Unfortunately, you, like most Bitcoin promotors on ZH, resort mainly to distracting strawman arguments. The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of thoughtful ZH contributors who believe in the wisdom of holding gold are not, and have not been rooting against, or "attacking" BC. What we have been doing is questioning both the long term viability of it, and the wisdom of "investing" in it now that it has rocketed up in value so quickly.

As you are seemingly unable to understand that important distinction, and prefer to use sweeping, derogatory steroetypes, I see no reason to take any of your arguments seriously.

The commentor seek, on the other hand, is Bitcoins greatest ally and promotor on ZH, and the hyperbolic promotors would be smart to pay attention to how he handles himself.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:11 | 4198730 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

I don't think so.  But you can put some money you can afford to lose into Bitcoin.  I don't think it is too late yet.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 03:22 | 4198749 SonOfSoros
SonOfSoros's picture

When speculators like me are slowly unwinding and booking profits with physical buy orders for gold at $1200, the probability is not in your favor.

You could do so but just note the low probability trade set up. 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!