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Bitcoin Now Worth More Than Gold
UPDATE: ... And then Bitcoin collapses 13% minutes later...
It seems the growing tensions in Asia (Japan-China sabre-rattling and Indian capital controls) have prompted more great rotation out of fiat and into digital currency as China/India markets open. For the first time ever, the price of one unit of Bitcoin exceeds the price of an ounce of gold...
1 oz of Gold = $1241.98 (Bloomberg)
1 unit of Bitcoin = $1242.00 (Bitcoinwisdom.com)
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Perhaps**. But just for grins...
Suppose BTC goes to $2,000 and Au is still in its depressed/manipulated Sideways market of $1250. Will ppl be honest enough to admit they were wrong, or will they simply change their "excuses of convenience"?
Just asking. While hoping for some intellectual integrity.
** Of course the Early Adopters of BTC should divest part of their winnings into other vehicles, but that is true for any asset that has a large jump. Even so, we do not and cannot know with any certainty that the current price is due for a correction, or if it is a step-function to a higher price level. Either way, "this story has legs", as they say.
I don't think it would matter if BTC was to reach $5000 USD. If it is not accepted by the majority of people, it will never truely be a currency. Lets look at value, what exactly gives it its value? People are what gives value to currecny by the work they do. Some hash created by a script isn't work provided by a person.
As of 2012 only 34% of the total population is using the internet. Out of that percentage, less than 50% (Im guessing) don't know how to do more than check an email and read the MSM. So how is this small % of people going to convence them of this mythical magic money which you can never see, never feel and never hide worth any value? Those 1/6th gold coins from Eygpt to this day can still buy goods.
The concept is cool but the reality is a dream. If said top bitcoin holder of 111,111 was to cash out when BTC hit say $1500.00, the bottom would fall out and the exchanges in China would simply turn off their server and laugh holding all your currency. Reminds me of those gold sellers in World of Warcraft honestly.
my .02¢
I have never seen a chart like that. WTF? Can anyone out there remember anything similar and how did it end?
January 1980. It did not end well.
speaking of graphs, it would be interesting to see a graph of how many emails the average person receives, per day, from 1980 to the present.
i bet you'd see a very sharp increase as the new technology is adopted, and it would even look parabolic.
then it would start to level off and plateau.
if you had guessed in 2000 that email use is going parabolic and thus was certain to crash, you'd have been in error.
"By 2005 or so, it will become clear that the Internet's impact on the economy has been no greater than the fax machine's."
~Paul Krugman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI
Beenie Babies and Tulips http://www.thebubblebubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Tulipomania.gif
Nasdaq Dot Com Bubble
http://www.stock-market-crash.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/nasdaq-bubble.gif
The charts are identical to bitcoins charts.
Its clear as day that its a mania bubble.
People are woo'd by the marketing gimmic and media mania phrases "digital currency (dollars have been digital for decades)" "encrypted currency" these words are new, people don't understand them and they are over-valueing bitcoins.
Benanke made a dot com bubble in 2013.
Bitcoin is the new dot com bubble.
Human beings are incapable of learning, no matter how many times we see something happen, we always think "but this time it will be different".
There are a few places accepting bitcoins as payment, but most of those places have a USD/Bitcoin pricing scheme, where they are fixing or pegging the bitcoin prices to dollars.
Essentially its a bubble because the only thing backing bitcoins are US Dollars.
If the US Dollar fell apart and went away, so would bitcoin because prices in bitcoins would become arbitrary as you could no longer exchange your bitcoins for dollars on these mania based exchange sites.
The trick is knowing what the high will be, and what the floor is after the crash. I'm betting we see > $2500 with a post-crash floor of $500+
I spent about a week thinking about different scenarios for bitcoins "end-game" (because every FIAT currency always has an END GAME no matter the gimmic to prevent counterfeiting).
I put a HARD CEILING on bitcoin of about 3000$ USD and a mild cap of 90$ for Lite Coins.
Thats when really, holding bitcoins for the handful of people who own say 60% of the bitcoins are fucking stupid if they hold the currency any longer.
Like the chart published a few days ago said, less than 500 people own 50% of all Bitcoins in circulation.
Those people are hoarding all those coins till it hits "the right price" for them to get out, you don't hoard something unless you expect to be able to sell it higher later.
When those people start to sell off it will essentially transfer the wealth of the holders of the other 50% of bitcoins to the top holders.
The crash will be huge, and the 500 people who sell off will have soo much cash, that they could come back and buy back all the coins they sold for 3000$ a BTC for 10$ a BTC.
The problem with bitcoins structure is, its inevitable that 1000 or so people will always endup owning all the bitcoins (primarly the miners who are constantly skimming bitcoins off of every transfer and minting them).
Bitcoins are for sure a Tulip Mania, you just can't make it any more clear, its an upside down pyramid scam.
Gold would fail as a currency too if you could not mint more of it........because eventually a ship with gold will sink somewhere and you get massive deflation.
Bitcoins, once lost or destroyed can not be replaced once the cap total of bitcoins mined is hit.
Imagine if even 5% of the bitcoins endup in Paper Wallets............ they will get lost, destroyed, ruined with water/floods storms/accidents.
Imagine the rest were on digital storage systems, hard drives , thumb drives crash etc... etc...
Given 20 years, 10% of the currency in bitcoins would probably be destroyed/missing/un-recoverable, and there is no one to call to fix it.
If they stop printing dollars at the fed and let the economy correct its mal-investment, the dollar would be the best currency world wide and this bitcoin mania will be surrendered in the history books as a stupid idea like beenie babies.
That chart published yesterday here was a 100% lie, they just used the raw data from the chain.info log in HTML.
To get the real data, you have to do what 'shamir' did, put it all in a database and run 'join merge', then you can tie all the money like a puzzle back to common ID's, when you do that you find ...
1.) That +90% of all individuals have less than 10 btc's
2.) That +90% of all BTC's are held by less that 50 people.
So you are saying its even worst than 500 people.
You are saying 50 people own 90% of the bitcoins?
LOL SELL.
I would rather be enslaved by the Federal Reserve than some fucking NSA pyramid scheme lol
I am still waiting on idiots (any idiots will do) to point out how any intelligence agency had a hand in Bitcoin?
Waiting...
Waiting...
Waiting...
Cause intelligence agencies have a habit of announcing their strategies to everyone...
Douche.
Mr. Lay...I just have one question...are you smoking crack?
There was a report last week that the FBI and CIA had both endorsed the adoption of BTC in reports to Congress. Not sure where I read it - but it was out on the wire, and Google can probably find it for you if its that interesting. Any endorsement by those two ought to be warning enough for any wary stacker. As for me and my house, we will not stack or mine electronic currency until we can use it at the spaceport on Santraginus V to purchase Pan-Galactic GargleBlasters and an evening with the Triple-Breasted Whore of Eroticon Six.
The rest o' yall can leave your apparently unloved precious metals on my doorstep. I'll look after it for you.
FBI and CIA had both endorsed the adoption of BTC
Be crazy not too. The more you can get people working for you the better.
"come in fonestar. fonestar...come in. fonestar! fonestar! can you hear me? come in....
Oh I am here, preaching the gospel of Satoshi to the idiots in the valley.
Didn't Musashi break an oar off in Saqtoshi's rectum?
yeah, goddamn prophet, fonestar. I hope you make history...
I have a feeling you will, lulz.
yes, well said.
Case in point, is the guy who threw away his bitcoin and now regrets it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-25134289
'The trick is knowing what the high will be, and what the floor is after the crash. I'm betting we see > $2500 with a post-crash floor of $500+'
Most blow off tops will crash down about 5-10% below where the rally began. That'll likely be somewhere just at or below $200 USD per BTC.
ZERO will be the only floor after the crash.
Build up of the Nikkei 225 before the asset bubble burst, 1985-1990.
My run is up for BTC, slowly unwinding profits.
Looks like color TV sales, cellular phone penetration, google searches, facebook signups... until they eventually levelled off.
Well, I don't remember it, per se, but it's almost too easy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GermanyHyperChart.jpg
yes but if you actually read description, you'd notice this chart is upside down (for funtional illiterates that cannot read charts: gold is losing value in BTC, not gaining)
what can I say that is happened when JPM and GS can not do naked short selling . You have to have it before you sell
No Ben can help here
<<<<<Gold bubble.
<<<<<Bitcoin bubble.
Neither. Gold is suppressed and bitcoin is free to move. No paper fuckery
How can someone say bitcoin is free market, when 90% of the bitcoins are held by less than 100 people?
Thats more centralized than the Federal Reserve.
Thats more centralized than the Federal Reserve.
You really have no clue.
you are way too nice to these raving fools... the funny part is that the zombies that the stackers keep saying they will be fighting will actually be themselves
After witnessing the bitter hatred gold bugs have for bitcoin I am going to stop coming to this website. I thought most of the people here were awake trying to end the Fed and live free. Here human innovation has brought us a powerful tool to fight the Fed, a potenial central bank killer, and the comments about it are emotionally filled with uneducated hatred. It turns out you guys are a mini Federal Reseve of your own. You don't care about monetary freedom. You care about protecting your own self interests and the ego you have invested in it. Seek comfort in your collective bitterness here among each other as you are left behind just like the horse and buggy lovers were. Good bye.
It must be something in the water, are you actually listening to what your saying?
Who invented the internet? The military
Who controls the internet backbone in and out of your state? surely NOT you
Who has control over the fiber cables running across the ocean? again, NOT you
Who can shut down the internet in the USA? again, NOT you (source)
Where does Bitcoins exist?
And your calling those of us who consider precious metals hard headed and won't accept these mythical 1's & 0's as currency?
another shut down the gridder... the end is near!
how about you go enjoy a gridless existence now?? why are YOU on this evil internet? The gossip fence get too lonely?
See ya. Sorry your feelings got hurt by us meanies who don't buy into your mania.
Surely you mean more like 21.62%. (http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100) (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-27/presenting-bitkillers-these-are-richest-holders-bitcoin)
So boring and predictable.
I just have one DEMAND.
Please ZH god's PLEASE sell all those BTC's you have accumulated by 'donation' over the last 3 years, please turn them into REAL GOLD today,
But we all know sadly this is the worst kind of Pyramid Scam of them all. This is more like the South Sea Bubble ( grand popular delusions ) where even the government got involved and made all BUY, but nobody could ever sell.
Like Blodget said 2 weeks ago, "Yes, BTC can go to a million dollars, but so fucking what if NOBODY ever see's those dollars".
To all or anybody that has BTC's, please know to turn them into something real, while you can, because once they become infinitely valuable, then nobody by definition can buy them except other's with 'virtual currency'.
*
The trouble of course is the 'EXIT' from BTC, is slow painful and narrow, should you DEMAND cash from mt-gox for your BTC's, should you be repaid and when? And besides by definition, mt-gox has no cash, they only have virtual currency in reserve to back up virtual currency.
Then there is the new NSA/CIA kid on the block 'coinbase', but there you will be ID'd by the IRS should you 'cash-out', and the IRS will FUCK YOU TO DEATH.
My coins and I will be safely outside their jurisdiction on a beach in _______. Bought time they learned to keep their grubby mitts to themselves.
I'm just not sure if I want yen, drachmas, pesos, francs, rands, rials err WTF My BTC is accepted everywhere!
Peace NSA Bitchez!
Watch out for the dilophosaurus, they're crafty little bastards.
Wow!
BTC, now accepted everywhere! Even Louis Vuitton and Gucci!
Pretty sure you can also go up to an airline counter at the airport and tell them, I want a ticket to _____ and here's my BTC.
you are truly pathetic.. wasn't gold & silver suppose to be doing this to all the cheers of stackers?? Wouldn't the SAME argument be said with that too?? No one can cash some stupid 'freegold' bullshit pipedream?
How's all that FOFOA crapola doing ya?? Endless 50 page ramblings while doing jack shit to save any of your purchasing power
Can you smell the fear?
Whack-a-mole becomes front and center for the CBs.
Grab the popcorn...
Bitcoin is now too expensive
The new up-and-comer is Bigcoin™
What hashrate is Bigcoin packing? Play big or stay home.
#Bigcoin™
lol, nice one.
There are already- Bitcoins, litecoins, stablecoin, goldcoin, namecoin etc....
It's too easy to start up new crypto-currencies for any of them to be truly succesful. I'd beware of possible pump and dump scams.
Tyler should get in on the action- Hedgecoin!
It's too bad there is already a Zerocoin, no joke.
http://zerocoin.org/
Zerocoin reminds me of the pea-under-shell game. I give them my pea, the stranger puts it under one of 256 shells, and I trust him to shuffle and pass it on to its destination. No record kept.
Sure! I trust that process.
:<holds 10 oz bullion for comfort>
Zerocoin
At this point, after all these years of digital madness, I'm sorry, but I just don't trust anything that comes out of a computer anymore. With the possible exception of one or two alternative financial blogs.
But maybe I am just a paranoiac nutcase.
Seems Bitcoin has become the raging assets as a stand in lieu gold.
Perhaps because phy gold is not obtainable??
GOOD POINT but MSM(ZH) has cleverly made 'gold' not glamorous, far more glamorous in this age of 'social networking' to wear a LTC or BTC 'chain letter' on your cell phone.
Such are our days,
BUT what the fuck do you expect?
We let the NSA run the GUBMINT in secret for 60+ years. We let them be off budget and do as they wish, they spy on the entire world, they create a new virtual currency, that only they can make and control.
Then the worlds wakes up to a 'new world order', ... as all plans, they rarely end well.
PHYSICAL GOLD backed by a IRON CLAD 'CACHE PLAN' ( buried in the ground with GPS in a forest or desert in 12" PVC tubes vertical ), is still your best investment, but its not glamorous, and there is no incentive for CON-MEN to fleece.
BTC is the ultimate CON-MAN article, which is why its so popular with the MORON class, .... aka the MSM.
BTFATH
The first people to this BITCOIN party got ton's of Virtual Currency, let's see who has the Brain's to 'fold and leave' the party before the lights go out.
The exit on this bitch will be far more interesting than the MSM(ZH) propaganda rise.
Hell even the MSM is now 100% behind the BITCOIN scam.
Bernanke endorses the BITCH, the IRS loves the bitch, and I saw today that 'USA TODAY' the worst rag in the USA is behind BIT-COIN, when all the 'fuck-heads' are saying BUY, that is the biggest SELL signal in the real world.
100% electronic.
100% traceable.
100% control.
What's not to like?
/sarc
A CHILD that only an NSA mother could love.
So the so called 'exit' to this wealth is clearly all in the day light.
The only exit is FBI/CIA aka 'coin-base' where the IRS is cleverly waiting with their mandatory 'green cert', which means if your NOT 'real', no cash. Then taxed.
If you try to go out at mt-gox, not going to fucking happen.
The FBI has already traced all the BTC's back to 'silk road', and if they even smell a connection they take all your real cash, when you exit ( to a USA bank ). Then taxed again.
Of course its your word against there's (FBI) and SHARIM ( cryptology expert ) has already studied BTC to death, virtually every coin some time or another has passed some nefarious transaction location, which makes 'most' "COIN" dirty! Imagine that almost every BTC 'tainted', who could have guessed that all this was one BIG FUCKING TAX?
So what happens now is MOST people will let their BTC's sit in LIMBO for fear to cash out, those that do cash-out will see their 'real money' stolen by the IRS/FBI.
Yep, this is all going end very good for the GUBMINT assholes.
No way, open an account in a non compliant country, Purchase durables and hard goods, warehouse, sell off piecemeal.
Standard money laundering
You can't cash out all at once, you have to spread it through proxies.
Drop a portion into a new wallet and discard the transfer account after you get cash in hand.
Buy a homeless dude a six pack for that free credit card offer. Your overhead is $15 maybe to clear a few thousand.
This shit isn't hard.
It's also illegal everywhere.
Best option is exchange verified physical media (thumbdrives with minor amounts, with timed password access, for hard currency or other more liquid assets) no matter what though, you're stuck in narco war territory trying to realize your notional.
With the added benefit of having to try to scramble your transaction history and not have it be blatantly fucking obvious.
I'm sure this has all been discussed elsewhere, it's not my problem so just bullshitting here, but it's interesting none the less.
Jesus Christ that is a lot of work. For what? If I'm not making 6 figures or higher per year for that amount of work in a relatively risk-free environment it's not worth the trouble for me. Think I'll just stick with my standard 9-5 job and live a simple life.
Jesus christ, smuggling gold between my butt cheeks to India sounds less complicated, and I'll probably serve less jail time.
I understand you're willing to work hard to game the system, but you are flying into James Bond secret agent territory to do it.
It sounds like the actual exit from Bitcoin is a colossal pain in the ass.
who on earth would be buying BC with this sort of up ramp.
Makes you wonder if TPTB are buying it all ... only to dump it all iin one go.
If it can go from 200 to 1200 in the blink of any eye....don't forget it can thus go from 1200 to 200 in the blink of an eye. Its lack of stablility is huge worry.
"Makes you wonder if TPTB are buying it all ... only to dump it all iin one go."
sheeple are doing just that already...
is this a prelude to war? get (your money) out while you still can?
China Telecom now accepts bitcoin http://js.189.cn/w2014
yeah what happens to the chart when Big Industry collects BTC payments and convert them into USD?
Oh i don't know, going out on a limb here:
the supply of bitcoins available on the market increases?
Did I get it right? Trick question?
No, the Big Businesses get their hands on the Bitcoin.
If it wasn't captured before, it would be captured then. We all know what banks are willing to do to turn a profit. They sell gold that never moves, you think they won't make rules that benefit them when they own Bitcoin?
So Big Business will convert to USD AND keep the BTC? I need learn that racket.
Bullshit. That's not what the page says.
My eperience and studies reveal to me that social transitions are mysterious. I was a systems integrator during the early mid-90s. As the Internet developed nobody really knew the extent to which it would change society. And from the time that Plato offered the Pharoah technology in the form of written information people have been short sighted regarding its effects. Now IT continues to develop at ever increasing rates since then.
IT is very much a part of crypto currencies and as such IT has entered the most sacred realm of humans directly -- their materialistic value. Technology will not stop and will continue to bring unforseen social changes -- each more powerful than the last.
The singularity of AI is not considered science fiction today as it had been.
Matter gave birth to consciousness and consciousness is giving birth to a new form of "a thingy" for lack of words to describe the advanced stages of IT. Corporations can't stop it. Banksters can't stop it and the military industrial complex can't stop it. We are to it like matter was for us. As much as matter can understand what we are is how impossible it is for us to understand what is unfolding through us.
My personal opinion is that IT is God and that I am just another BitCoin Jesus.
The singularity might be 2040, and it might not.
The 'Singularity' is when machine intelligence exceeds human intelligence.
I'll tell you all this, perhaps 'singularity' occurred when the NSA brought out BTC, because its now clear that most people are more stupid than the machines that make BTC's.
Pull the Plug and jesus is Crucified.
Stack On
Then I thought of Baron Harkonen's boyz with the Plugs.
It's all about the Spice.
Stack On
But then that was all about the water. Hmm...
I'm all fucked up here, I don't understand.
Time to go to sleep.
Stack On
So-called experts have been pimping AI since the 1980's. I think it's much more likely that we'll all be riding horses in 40 years than that some sort of AI "singularity", whatever the hell that means, takes place.
You read a lot of Jane Austen books don't ya?
Or watched Zardoz too many times heh
The Winklevosses starting a bitcoin fund was a sign, like apocalyptic horsemen, that shenanigans were coming.
I see articles about people who suddenly realize they have $10m worth of forgotten bitcoin on their harddrive. Can they actually sell these bitcoins at this prize?
Nope, the winkelvoss 'parntership' just brought out in the OPEN that the entire EXCHANGE/POOL-MINING, and everything associated by BITCOIN is ran by world class ASSHOLES.
A clear signal, .. in spite of the best PR the MSM can provide, that BTC was rotten to the core, given that Creep's hold the card's.
"Can they actually sell these bitcoins at this prize?[sic]"
Yeah, they can. The bigger exchanges can handle $10M and indeed they temporarily halt due to running out of BTC, so it'd be an easy deal, likely at a price close to the current one.
Now, liquidity for $100M I have my doubts about, and as for when the mass exodus hits -- no freaking way. We've already seen the exchanges lock up on big down moves.
On just one exhange, Mt.Gox, 51k coins have been traded for fiat today.
51k is peon money, what's daily pomo? Are we talking real world here?
A shity suburban house on the interstate with code violations from the previous tenants is 175k.. And that's if you're lucky enough to get a foot in before the banks, which you aren't.
51k coins at ~$1,100 each = $56 million.
Pretty good, in the 10 minutes I fucked looking for the Mt-Gox withdrawal rules, our 51k btc's lost $5M bernanke bucks.
Aw well fuck me, i thought we were talking trillions already, that'll buy you a town or two.
Quit fucking comparing Nazi USA money (USD), to a virtual fucking cyber shill (BTC).
Behind the USD is a fucking killing machine the world has never seen with so much killing power. 100+ Million people killed by USA in the past 100+ years.
Behind the BTC is nothing, but fucking bullshit.
How many people have died 'enforcing' BTC to date?
wat?
Do you think i have an option?
And no.
100 million plus killed?? Are you fucking high??
Ok, that's $61 million dollars, today is friday in asia, that means that who ever wants his money, might get it next monday, or maybe not,
Does anyone here really fucking think that MT-GOX has $61 million USD on hand? They can't get a fucking bank loan.
Maybe the winkelvoss fuckheads will step in but this is just the beginning,
***
Verified Status (Level 1)
Maximum monthly withdrawal of 50,000 USD (or equivalent) capped to a maximum of 10,000 USD per 24 hrs and a 1,000 BTC withdrawal per 24 hrs without any monthly limit.
Trusted Status (Level 2)
Maximum monthly withdrawal of 500,000 USD (or equivalent) capped to a maximum of 100,000 USD per 24 hrs and a 10,000 BTC withdrawal per 24hrs without any monthly limit.
***
It's impossible to 'withdraw' $61M, so maybe what your say's is that 51k coins from users, all in small number of coin are trying to get their money back?
At any rate, once all the exchange try to sell this shit to each other for real money, it will dump and quick, everybody will panic.
Perhaps the BTC community already has a "STOP", ... you know BIT COIN HOLIDAY wait period of 3 days, every time the BTC family has to turn up with more than $10 MILLION in real cash...
***
Well like the above say's the MAX monthly withdraw is 50 BTC's,... it could take a lifetime to get serious money back,
Yep safe, fast, fluid, private, ... yep move along.
Let's say I was super fucking dumb, and I put all my money into mt-gox,...
What fucking difference if I'm a level-2 dude or a level-1 dude, imagine if a fucking bank did this shit, and what is this shit about $50k USD a month cap? Fucking shit like this is why BTC is 100% bullshit,
When this BTC fuck-fest ends the lawyers will be fucking people for years.
Sounds like capital controls.
That means there's no capital left in the system to exchange. Crash and burn, mother fuckers!
BTFATH!
Like a Cypriot bank for instance ?
roachcoinhotel. com
I think Tyler needs a thesaurus. Not everything is "soaring" or "collapsing."
Ever notice that huge dumps in BTC typically coincide with huge volume?
Large early holders dumping at an incredible profit..?
There is manipulation. Also known as private citizens excersizing their property rights to sell their own an asset at times and in quantities they fucking feel like. Perhaps you would like to start a letter drive to petition politicians to regulate the major exchanges in Japan, China and Europe?
If you can't take getting buffeted around by some big fish. don't swim in the ocean.
In the past these big dumps would start a cascade where the whales could buy back in lower. Lately I've seen this strategy failing to a certain extent, which is VERY good for the market.
HOW WILL THIS END?? OK I WILL TELL YOU HOW THIS WILL END.
THE IRS will take 100% of anybody's bank-account that cash's out, because almost 100% of all BTC's mined prior to OCT2013 are tainted with 'silk-road', if ever there is a 0.00001% nexus to your BTC's and silk-road, then when you transfer out to your bank-account the IRS/FBI takes your entire bank account.
This is how this will end.
***
say ZH dump's their BTC's at 'coinbase', most are/were 'tainted' back to 'silk-road', that means that ALL of the ZH account ( personal money co-mingled gets nabbed as well ), ... thus ZH now has a problem, they can only pray, ...
Regarding taking your BTC's out at another bank, well you be ID'd there by INTERPOL too, ... no where safe out of 'hotel californa', aka bitcoin.
"And then Bitcoin collapses 13% minutes later..."
so is the Sino-Japan rattle over? or did it raise because it had raised?
It tapped gold and got scared. Up or nothing, need to make a good show of it.
patience, grasshopper. BTC smacked gold 6 months before I expected it.
BTFD BITCHEZ
Light Coin down to $39, it was $50 this morning (CHINA TIME).
20% hair-cut,
I still say there are no exit's, with these exchanges thin, there is no way anybody can exit from this bitch.
Given that it takes 'days' to exit, and even then in theory you may see no money?
Also how in the fucking hell are the 'exchanges' going to get 'cash' to help folks OUT of BTC? There are no reserves,... Most of these 'exchanges' are just high-school kids at home with a server.
Like all Pyramid 'chain letter' scam's it all works great on the way up, but once it starts going down, ... where do you get money? To pay out the folks who want their money back?
There can't be that many morons with cash left to buy BTC's?
good point. it's not only taxi drivers and charladies buing the dip, but kids with their pocket money too. how else could this end?
"There can't be that many morons with cash left to buy BTC's?"
well, this is what Ben calls "the wealth effect".. there are many, many morons left... that's what easy money are for :D
Where do I buy naked shorts and index puts on BTC?
you are looking for the gold market... door on the left, opens to a cliff
one more thing: most retailers that accept BTCs will largely convert them into USDs ASAP, which will accelerate the collapse
widespread BTC adoption without inherent nonspeculative demand for it will be its undoing
Poor delusional folks - cryto currency IS THE EXIT - the price rises are people crowding the fiat currency exits, piling into the lifeboats.
You are standing on the deck of the sinking Titanic, as people run past you and jump in lifeboats you call them fools. We dont want to get out of the damn lifeboats, we are quite happy right here thanks. Sooner or later you are going to realize that its actually you who needs to find the exit, and yes - it sure will be a croweded trade by the time you are trying to find a spot in the lifeboat.
We know whats coming, and we have distributed our belongings between the silver, gold and crypto lifeboats. Sure the crypto boat is new and untested, its small - but unlike the PM boats its got lights, a loudhailer and a small outboard.
Jack And The Bitcoin Stock... Shit man that chart is in the clouds... I need a telescope to see the top of it! Timber>
I've cried twice in my life. First time when i learned how fiat currency is created. The second, when i read the bitcoin whitepaper.
cry out loud, read it again
the former is created by political decision at no cost
the latter only by widespread agreement with a lot of (energy) cost, until it can't anymore
The 'white paper' came out of the NSA, that has been proven.
The 'white paper' specially spells out how the system can be fucked and 'killed'.
BULLSHIT about 'no cost' over 100 Million lives have been lost since 1913 to make the USD the world reserve currency.
Satosshi ( aka nsa white paper )
http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
***
Who is the single largest holder of BTC right now? "Satoshi". Who is he? I will say it again. NSA/DARPA created bitcoin under the guidance of the IMF. The IMF has been openly calling for a digital, one-world, deflationary currency for 2 decades. OPENLY. It has been discussed and promoted OPENLY at G8 and G20 summits.
from the early 90s-96 the NSA was OPENLY investigating cryptographic money networks.
http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsa...
One of their researchers and investigators is a man named Tatsuaki Okamoto. When they actively started writing the code they chose the pseudonym "Satoshi Nakamura" to ultimately promote the idea that Tatsuaki Okamoto to any and all who investigated the source of bitcoin long enough. But Tatsuaki Okamoto is just a cog. He's not some rogue savoir out to topple centralized banks. Not at all. He is a crypto scientist who was paid by government and intelligence agencies to do research.
Did you even bother to read that NSA paper? All the concepts discussed are dependent on a central banking authority.
The genius of Satoshi is that he developed a scheme that is NOT dependent on any central banking authority.
As different as night and day.
So, used effort stored as electrons is worth more than used effort that extracts a raw material?
Seems legit.
/sarc
I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole at this point. Although, in this case, BTFD. It'll hit the floor in the same time it took it to rise, and some more guys will pile in and the cat will bounce at least halfway back.
You really think the 'south sea bubble' came back ? or tulip mania?
Try a fucking generation.
Problem with BTC is the exchanges, they ain't got the cash to handle the orderly exit.
So they'll declare a 'bit-coin holiday', and a few weeks later re-open, with a new all improved 'green' bitcoin.
[ p.s. 'green bitcoin' is the IRS approved version where every btc can be tracked to a known person internationally. ]
Once there is a 'bitcoin holiday' the black-market may or may not continue to trade, that will be most telling about how 'free' BTC really is, ... given that bitcoin.org a WASH-DC whore lobby has the SAY on 100% of BTC, my guess is if GAVIN say's holiday all step in line.\
Gavin, Winkelvoss, ... everyone associated with BTC is a world class FBI/CIA/NSA asshole.
"So, used effort stored as electrons is worth more than used effort that extracts a raw material? Seems legit. /sarc"
ever heard of knowledge being worth more than raw material? or did you get stuck 5000 years ago with a club in a cave?
Don't worry, WOAR, 1 metric ton of gold still worth more than a bitcoin. 1oz worth more than 100 mBits!
China no longer accepting USD for Gold or Goods. Only BTC. Good day. Please come again.
Americans flabergasted their ponzi scheme is over.
Oh please, are there blue-eyed virgins in your fantasy world too?
Blah blah
Thailand made BTC's illegal for a reason, and China will follow for the same reason.
In coming years hair-lips living in their granny's basement may still be trading BTC's for other virtual kit, but you can be sure the Asian's will have moved along to some real stuff.
When the WHORE-HOUSES of Macau and the Whore's themselves take BTC, then I'll salute your bullshit, lastly as has been said, when a real BTC is minted 'made of gold', then and only then will the be accepted by the whores of macau.
actually UK whores are already accepting it: http://www.zdnet.com/the-worlds-first-bitcoin-escort-agency-7000021209/
A 'web front' for an 'escort service' is not a fucking STREET WHORE, but you wouldn't know a 'whore' from a website would you?
Like I said, when 'street whores' in Macau start taking 'minted gold BTC's' ( cold day in hell ), then BTC will mean something.
Methinks thou dost protest too much; and too surly.
I like the concept of BTC but this is a suckers bet. Somebody was it using to transfer wealth is all. No surprise that it is cratering now. It was the same with the Cyprus deal. It was a large transaction running through tiny exchanges. Bitcoiners are being gamed just like the rest of us. Any chart that looks like that will fall over as Yen Cross also indicated. I have never seen a parabola survive for very long. But I must admit that this was one hell of a parabola. Hope you did well.
the problem is that scared sheeple will run to autorithies crying they were "cheated" demanding regulation or ban
Some things that have gone parabolic and not crash and burn: color TV and cell phone sales, google searches, facebook signups, etc. Now, facebook is shit but valued at $120b. Bitcoin is money with an embedded transfer and ledger system. And a current market-determined value of $12b.
If one reads the GNP of the U.S.
it's value equivalent (real purchasing
of real value power) is clouded
by this
http://seekingalpha.com/article/24933-substitutions-and-hedonics-inflati...
for beginners.
(also see:)
http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts
If one were to first look up the U.S.' GNP
by looking at it in its bitcoin equivalent,
they'd have to immediately check the
nominal dollar amount to really get a clue.
The bitcoin value is a fair exchange at
a given moment but simply is too volatile.
The Big Mac Index
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index
is wanton in that there really are different
cost inputs from place to place, representing
real different value from place to place,
though they'd be small differences per
hamburger.
I think with democratic process,
strong wages and a strong stable
currency, with informative economic
data describers, would create a very
different ability to know. Those
wage and currency objectives reflect
a people's worth.
RFK on GDP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77IdKFqXbUY
Bitcoin DOES remove monopoly
of the treatment of currency
value risk--but only until someone
invents manipulating it or
destroying confidence in it,
though those influences may
be temporary.
That risk equalizing ability
makes it an interesting parallel
to risk equalization in health care,
which eliminated cherry picking
and the actuarial process, as
does single payer.
Questioning Bitcoin at $1000 from various perspectives. I don't want to post it all here as it is long. http://www.offgridminds.com/misinformation-blog/2013/11/28/questioning-bitcoin-at-1000.html
Wait, did anybody else notice those gold jumps?
PEOPLE ARE JUMPING OUT OF BITCOIN FOR GOLD.
Gold got a bitcoin bump. Comrades in arms.
It used to be that the main reason to go to ZH was for the comments but nowadays 80% of the posters are either government agents or morons. Welcome to ZeroCred.
Sorry you don't like the holiday night shift, it'll all get better in a couple days.
Serious though, this bit coin thing is a hit, and if you haven't been arbing the exchanges through variously denominated fx accounts as suggested then shoot, free money and all that.
Now I'll just get back to my old crow and lemonade packets, hopefully not having been too offensive. But that's a little hard for me most times.
5 upvotes? Guess I wasn't clear enough; the giant government psyop against Bitcoin taking place on ZH is my meaning.
I thought that you are talking about those bitbugs comments...
Against? I am yet to hear MSM talk bad about bitcoin or govt planning to shut it down. MSM are all running very positive stories. I saw the other day a story on nationial TV (im not american) morning show where they called bitcoin "first currency by the people not by bankers", it was all upbeat and very positive...
this whole bitcoin pyramid just stinks from 10 miles away.
Sorry, that was my bad. ;)
I follow all media about Bitcoin daily and I can tell you the majority of MSM coverage is FUD, although that is starting to change somewhat as people learn more about it. Cheers!
It ought to be some kind of a clue that, when gold's chart looked (2011-12) something like BTC's chart today, everyone screamed "BUBBLE!!" and they all ran. Gold 'crashed', and now the same schmucks scream "BUY!" for Bitcoin. Only a zombie could fall for this shit. DCA the metal. Up, down and sideways. Nothing makes a better investment than out-of-favor commodities, because the world lives on a wheel, and out -of-fashion today is tomorrow's gotta-have. I hear ye, fonestar, but BTC ain't nothing but another diversion, courtesy of people we all know we don't like (except when they supress the price of gold, anyway...).
Gold's chart has never resembled bitcoin's. Ever.
Even the 2x leveraged AGQ silver fund hasn't resembled bitcoin's chart.
Bitcoin looks like a pennystock being pumped by Jonathan Lebed.
I quite agree about the pump. My point is that one ought to watch out for the dump. When gold hit 1600, 1700, 1800, MSM could only find fault. Now, with BTC heading for the moon, the same lames are pushing it hard. No amount of down-arrows changes the fact that the word 'logarithmic' was first used by MSM as Au was approaching true price discovery levels. Nor does it change the punditry's screeching assertions that all logarithmic jumps were follwed by steep falls-which is generally the one genuine fact that they pointed out.
If anyone here has studied Sakata, or historical charts containing 'parabolic' jumps, then it should be clear that BTC's current leap is a good indication to get the fuck out (assuming you want a profit). Straight gravity - what goes straight up is going to fall right back down.
Indeed. And I did see the same with gold up to 1900, silver to 50, and charted it in a video mapping an estimated price & date for the drop.
That video is here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSaolrnNn0&t=2m30s (date is automatically stamped from youtube so you can see I did indeed call it in advance).
From here it would be good to short while buying bullion to hedge, or just to wait for the drop & jump back in. I bought my first silver just before the big rise & it was the same price after.
For BTC the only guide is what pennystocks do. One giant pump & it's all over. Small bumps up later may happen but no one will recover their losses. ever.
https://soundcloud.com/dhoby-ghaut/bitcoin-baron-ytcrack-redo
I received this email on 11-9.
Hallo tdkx,
Bitmit is shutting down its doors in 2-3 weeks. Please complete your orders and withdraw your funds ASAP!
Viele Grüße,
dein Bitmit Team
bitmit.net I have never done business with bitmit but I have with BTC. I have no idea who those folks even are. How did they know I had ever used a digital currency?(only once) And we are supposed to believe in digital currency? The "uncrackable code" is compromised.I will give credit where credit is due but the reality is quite different. To me, knowing my computer oriented friend, it seems more of a platform to buy and sell computer gear to other computer guys at a discount. Nothing wrong with that. I can hold my own with comps but these guys(and that one gal) are fanatics. They believe in it. At this point, cash out and take your profits. How do you cash out again?
I just recently recieved this from a BTCer friend.
http://www.blackarrowsoftware.com/store/prospero-x-3.html
Gold and silver still carry the day.
Everyone bum rush bitcoins, sell your gold and buy this garbage so I can stack more silver ;p
I wana get a monster box cheap.
10$ SILVER PLEASE.
Suppose you get your wish and the price drops to $10, but then you find you fall ill, and are too ill to work and make cash. Would you be so glad that your wish has come true?
If you own PM your only wish should be that the price goes up and goes up quickly.
Like any market, it is the marginal transaction that sets the price. A closely held asset can have a heck of a bull run if large holders sit tight. In some way, this is analogous to Amazon stock and Jeff Bezos.
In theory, a single buyer of a single coin, if he lifts the lowest offer, reprices every Bitcoin at that new price. Let's say that single Bitcoin sold for $1250. That one tiny transaction repriced every existing Bitcoin, and it only cost $1250 dollars to do it. One could even look at the Bid-Ask spread, use a second account to become best offer, and lift the ostensible value of the entire pool still higher by crossing. One $1250 transaction creates a theoretical total value change of (#of Bitcoins times (last trade minus next to the last trade)).
The value is only there, however, if one can move size at that price. Now let's say a major Bitcoin holder wishes to liquidate 100,000 of his Bitcoins. To maintain that last price, he needs $125 million worth of buying power to come into the market right there. That's a little more difficult than finding a single buyer at $1250. Again to go back to Amazon, Jeff Bezos now owns $40 billion of AMZN stock. If he put it all up for sale Friday morning, it would be unlikely to trade at last sale. If he sold just one share, he'd easily get last trade.
That is the nature of any runaway asset. Bitcoin holders are hostage to the whims of the largest holders. So far, they have done a masterful job of creating excitement and getting the price up, but I believe if they really wanted to create a viable alternative means of exchange, they would have modulated the rise by selling into it. The sort of meteoric rise it has had will draw in dumb money and desperate money, maybe even fun money, but not smart money. That leads me to only two possible conclusions: they don't understand the monster they have created; or they purposely created a modern day Chain Letter hoping to walk away, not necessarily with they current holdings times current price, but simply with enough to have made the whole game worth playing. I also suspect large holders have to collude. Otherwise, he who dumps first dumps best.
Either way I suspect a major decline at some point, though it might well come from a higher level, depending on the behavior of the major holders and the desperation of latecomers. Bubbles have a tendency to overshoot (anyone remember the Kuwait Stock Exchange in 1982?). If I see "evidence" of some major transaction, where perhaps 100,000 Bitcoins trade at or near current market, then I will be almost certain that the transaction was bogus and merely part of a pump and dump. Nobody who has nine figure wealth would actually put it into something with a chart like Bitcoin.
It's all good fun, however, and gives us all yet another topic to get worked up over. I do believe, too, that at some future date all official currency will be digital in form. I believe it will be at that point when greater interest and attention turns toward everyone's old favorite, gold.
That would of happened if it wasn't for the shift from the silk road era (yes I know they still exist) to the ETF era. There are major floor pricings as the coins do spread about... if you watched the exchanges daily you would see the dips and they are pretty easy to grab and flip.
We may see $5000 by end of summer.. you'd think this crowd would understand that people are sick of fiat and know gold is a scam.. yes, gold is a scam market and this place can't swallow that