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Bitcoin Now Worth More Than Gold

Tyler Durden's picture


UPDATE: ... And then Bitcoin collapses 13% minutes later...


It seems the growing tensions in Asia (Japan-China sabre-rattling and Indian capital controls) have prompted more great rotation out of fiat and into digital currency as China/India markets open. For the first time ever, the price of one unit of Bitcoin exceeds the price of an ounce of gold...


1 oz of Gold = $1241.98 (Bloomberg)

1 unit of Bitcoin = $1242.00 (




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Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:40 | 4198905 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

Face it. You are a religious fanatic.

Your BTC is worthless in the real world. it has no use what-so-ever....and it is backed only by "faith". You remind me of the idiots that follow the Quran or Bible......all on faith.

I'll keep stacking while prices stay low, at the end of the day Gold and Silver have uses......I have trillions of electrons in my computers, your arrangment of electons is as worthless as any. You are a sucker, a sucker in a trap.....and thats why you come across like a screaming with all religious fanatics, your faith can not grow unless you sucker more people in to your faith.

And all BTC is worth 12 Billion? Haha who gives a fuck, it is a toy for nerds living in their moms basements hopeing this will get them out. And I still would'nt trade a bit of copper for a BTC........if you can't see the sucker at the table, YOU are the sucker.

I tell you this now, because I know that the day when BTC crashes, you and fonestar will run like little kids as you won't want to hear the "I told you so" let me get one in now.......I TOLD YOU SO......You are a fucking moron who is handing over the priouct of his return, for


"Here, I have worked and slaved, let me hand over my gold, silver, dollars and assets......and you give me what in return.....a line or two of code?"...........I wonder if you are actually retarded. I mean that.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:01 | 4198916 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Heh 5000 year scam.


Why won't it just die already?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:11 | 4198981 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

75% of gold's current valuation is also faith.  Industrial "intrinsic" demand supports $300 in value.  In a recession, pawn shops and cash-for-gold on every other corner match corresponding jewelry/bling demand.  The rest is faith/speculation.  Which is fine, just see it for what it is.  

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:34 | 4199056 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



What is the value of a $100 dollar bill?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:50 | 4199091 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

a medium heavy bag full of ChapStick.


To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to die, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:37 | 4199064 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

You are a fucking moron

Says the man spitting feathers at an anonymous post on a random website.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 22:38 | 4201075 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

end of what day?  The day I pay off my mortgage with bitcoins?   You and your ilk got clowned into hoarding gold while they pound the price daily..  why didn't you look to outpace them at their own games? 


feeble mind, keep thinking you are so 'in touch'


Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:41 | 4198931 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

I am into bitcoins, but I would not say gold is a scam. The gold price is a scam, and will continue to be a scam so long as there is gold in American and European central banks. From what I gather looking at the Comex figures, it will still take 6-9 months to go to zero. If you are forced to sell, such as I am, that may mean you run out of your own reserve before the scam ends. That is why we are FORCED to go to cryptos in the meantime. In the words of Bob Chapman, 'there's no other place to be.'

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 22:40 | 4201082 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

what did I say?   the gold market is a scam..   touchy nannies around here right?   Can't people figure out if they are getting scammed to back out and scam back?


and they call me religious??  I can go back into gold WHEN IT IS THE RIGHT TIME TOOOOOO...   so who is the real religious fanatic stuck in a rut here?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:00 | 4198823 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

So much bubble and tulip talk makes me sleep well with my bitcoins. I would only get nervous when Cramer starts running a daily bitcoin show on CNBC.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:51 | 4199097 geewhiz
geewhiz's picture

As long as the tulipheads keep talking about tulips I keep buying. When waitresses and taxi drivers start talking about btc, and using them, then it's time to dress back because who can really afford a btc for 1 million +

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 22:44 | 4201090 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

amen..   remember when the religion on ZH was game theory??

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:52 | 4198869 ohhhhhbaaaaahhh...
ohhhhhbaaaaahhhhhhhhhmaaaaaahhhhh's picture

I think it will go higher... But be very careful, it is very easy to make it fall as technology advances and hackers are getting better and better. 

I give Bitcoin a lifespan of maximum of 1 year before it collapses. 2 years before it totally collapses. 

But in that 1 year period it could reach higher highs.


I would of probably bought some few months ago... at this level and risk, not worth it for me.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:28 | 4198874 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Reverse Alchemy -


Lead into gold? Fuggedaboutit!
Gold into a string indecipherable gobbledygook ? Now ya tawkin bro - rock on!

If, on the European Leg of your Fast-Food Outlets Of The World Tour, you should perchance take the wrong turning and find yourself in one of those dark, dank, musty ancient cathedrals, then fear not oh Sons Of Freedom Fries:  that strange rustling is only the sound of Alchemists of Yore spinning in their sarcophagi... green - as a toad's underbelly - with envy, at the miracle thou hast wrought!

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 05:59 | 4198879 NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

Yeah Tyler, intelligent... BTC "now worth more than gold"... Shape up MCap of BTC appros13 B MCap of Gold > 6 Trillion

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:32 | 4198903 Bloodstock
Bloodstock's picture

Can you say, Dot-Com?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:41 | 4198906 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

Don't waste your time on them. Its like trying to convert a born again religious fanatic..........their "faith" in their thumb drive with a bit of code on it is all that matters to them....well, that and convicing others to join their faith.


Just sit back and watch the show.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:45 | 4199080 geewhiz
geewhiz's picture

Careful simmaker. If thus is an authentic disruptive money enabled via technology then a lot of people will soon be slapping their forhead or digging thru the city dump looking for an old hard drive now worth over 4 million toilet paper dollars. If this thing makes it I won't be one of those people, and if it dosen't I'll be out a few bucks.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 06:59 | 4198915 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

ssshhh it's 6am. time for 12 straight hours of CNBC/Bloomberg clips telling us an invisible coin is worth more than gold.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:04 | 4198918 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Gold Manipulation - Kissenger: "Why is it against our interest to have gold in the system?"

 We continue our research about the Gold price suppression: who is doing this manipulation and why. With Bitcoin crossing $1000 and other crypto-currencies going parabolic we can see the hunger for the FIAT alternatives. We think that despite all very positive developments introduced by Bitcoin it is in a Bubble stage now due to its unbelievable vertical rise. Its bust will bring attention back to Gold and Silver and next step will be the introduction of crypto-currency backed by Gold - it will be the real game changer.   So far China is using all these games with Gold price suppression to accumulate Gold and this year we see the record buying. Announcement of its Gold reserves can bring the very sobering reality to the financial markets. China will not accept Bitcoin for its Treasury redemption and it is not going to increase its reserve holding any more. US Dollar is losing its Reserve Currency of choice status and all recent "flyover games" just confirm U.S. financial vulnerability in line with Sirya and Iran developments.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:25 | 4198928 muleskinner
muleskinner's picture

How can it have any value whatsoever? Snakebitcoin has zero value. Would you trade 12 barrels of oil for one bitcoin? Would you trade 250 bushels of wheat for one bitcoin?

It's trading beads for Manhattan.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:36 | 4198929 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Q. Would you trade 12 barrels of oil for one bitcoin?


A. Depends on the governments under which the ownership of the oil is defended. When they are all intent on confiscating everything, then you want something that is transnational, independent of centralized authority.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:52 | 4198999 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

How about I buy 12 barrels with fiat, then trade the oil to you for your 1 bitcoin?  Its just accounting, doesn't matter as long as you and I both reach an agreement. In some prisons cigarettes are used as money.  Cowry shells, beads, precious metals, SDRs, doesn't matter as long as both parties agree on the unit of account.  It is just an abstraction over the barter process.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:40 | 4198934 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Alternative Title: Bitcoin now worth more than manipulated Gold.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:06 | 4198937 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Bitcoins have no intrinsic value.  They are not tangible, therefore they are worth NOTHING.

Get that through your head Tyler.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:27 | 4198969 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

"Value is not intrinsic. It is not in things. It is in within us." - Mises

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:39 | 4198978 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 like beauty, value is in the eye of the beholder/buyer. this is not original from von Mises, btw, this goes back to Carl Menger, see The Marginal Revolution

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:18 | 4199009 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Thoughts while showering today...

Say I am a world renowned poet.  I have just composed a new piece.  Publishing companies are banging down my door to purchase that poem. For the time being it exists only in my head. What to do, what to do...  

A deal is reached.  I encode the poem and transmit it to the buyer.  The physical format doesn't matter.  I can scratch graphite against wood pulp, punch it in braile, recite it over the telephone.  The poem is published and translated into different languages while everybody recognizes it as a single intangible creation of yours truly.

A contract between two people is intangible.  The United States of America is intangible.  They both have at least a smidgeon of value.

When the economics textbook you use for guidance was written scarce intangible items that were fungible, divisible, recognizable and durable where not imaginable.  Now they exist. Money has evolved.

Intrinsic value is a lie.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:30 | 4199243 chaartist
chaartist's picture
The value of a Bitcoin or anything else is not determined by the input cost. Input cost is simply one determinant of whether an item can be made at all or sold for a profit. The value of bitcoins are determined by what traders want to trade for them. Don’t forget. There’s no such thing as “intrinsic value”. That’s just a misleading expression suggesting that there are “objective” values in nature. Any value only exists in the human mind, even if we talk about real physical assets. However if you look at it from further away, the labor these computers do serves as something completely different. Keeping a decentralized network of peers securely, and without the need for trust, agreeing on a ledger that keeps track of a limited digital asset and who owns fractions of it. And that certainly has a lot of value in today’s world because of what it allows users to do. I mean you could say the same thing about any computer doing anything else, because if you get to the very core components of a computer, all any computer ever does is math, nothing else. But this math, which by itself could be pointless, allows you to connect to other computers, allows you to write a word document, allows you to send an email, draw a picture, edit a movie, and what ever else one can imagine and all these functions certainly have value. It’s the whole that provides the value not a specific moving part.
Fri, 11/29/2013 - 07:54 | 4198942 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Bitcoin Has Reached Parity With Gold And Crashed 

We are witnessing the watershed events in the financial markets these days. Bitcoin has reached the parity with Gold today crossing $1242 before crashing to $1000, now it is back to $1178. We will repeat: congratulations to everybody who bought it cheaper and is able to sell now. Bitcoin exorbitant rise  show the future for the real alternative to FIAT currencies. Its spectacular fall will drive attention to the real value: Gold and Silver.    All crypto-currencies are on fire these days with Litecoin crossing $50 and we can see here the danger to this very remarkable idea. Will Bitcoin sustain its rise to $2000 and fall to $50? It is not currency at the moment, but asset Bubble chased by the crowd attracted by "unbelievable returns on investment." System is taking notice and will make all possible moves to discredit Bitcoin. Bitcoin's success will the major problem to overcome here. Now it looks like classic OTC market Pump and Dump: few insiders are controlling the flow, price is pushed up in deals between insiders and crowd is attracted at more and more higher prices with rising volume and distribution by insiders.   Expect the "active management of Bitcoin" now: rumours about the NSA cracking the encryption, hackers stealing BTCs and compromised Exchanges. The price going to the sky will trigger insiders selling itself and then it will the question how Bitcoin can withstand it.   In the modern age of Currency Wars and announced Financial War stage with China threatening the US Dollar Reserve Currency of choice status, we will ask very important question: Who is really behind Bitcoin? Even if it is not introduced countries like China and Russia now - they are taking notice. People are getting out of dollars and other FIAT currencies and even Gold and Silver prices are affected by the BTC rise. The only thing BTC lacks in order to become the real Money is stability and "accepted system guarantees". Now lets imaging that somebody will introduce crypto-currency, but backed by Gold and going into the mainstream. This will be the real game changer and who knows maybe somebody is testing the grounds already.   Next year China is going to announce its official Gold reserves and these number will be very interesting with ongoing record amount Gold accumulation this yearand record high leverage in the Western Fractional Reserve System with 69 owners per one ounce of Gold at COMEX.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:13 | 4198959 rgetty
rgetty's picture

Hi All,


Worlds worst trader here and dont worry if you are still interested in getting in just wait a few weeks, I intend to make a purchase and my skill is unmatched. In what ever asset class that I have invested in it has almost instantly dropped between 50-90%, So I predict that in January BC should be down around 100 dollars after my purchase. Buying time is near!



Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:15 | 4198960 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

"If those nine bitcoin alternatives weren’t enough for you, there are over 60 different altcoin currencies currently being traded at various exchanges like Cryptsy, including AndroidsTokens, AlphaCoin, AmericanCoin, AnonCoin, Argentum, AsicCoin, BBQCoin, BitCar, ByteCoin, BitGem, BottleCaps, CryptoBuck, CryptogenicBullion, CopperLark, Cosmoscoin, CHNCoin, ColossusCoin, CopperBars, CraftCoin, CasinoCoin ..."

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:16 | 4198961 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

After witnessing the bitter hatred gold bugs have for bitcoin I am going to stop coming to this website. I thought most of the people here were awake trying to end the Fed and live free. Here human innovation has brought us a powerful tool to fight the Fed, a potenial central bank killer, and the comments about it are emotionally filled with uneducated hatred. It turns out you guys are a mini Federal Reseve of your own. You don't care about monetary freedom. You care about protecting your own self interests and the ego you have invested in it. Seek comfort in your collective bitterness here among each other as you are left behind just like the horse and buggy lovers were. Good bye. 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:26 | 4198966 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Not everyone is like that. At least we can all agree that good people don't trust lawyers with long noses.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:31 | 4198974 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"...bitter hatred gold bugs have for bitcoin" ?

comment for a while with my avatar, buddy. it's Fight Club, remember?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:25 | 4199033 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

I actually own a gold mine. But I also accept BTC donations.


(I'm such a whore).

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:33 | 4199054 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Good for you.  Rather than leaving, years ago I decided to create my own sites.  At that point in time the bashers were bashing silver all day every day.  Now the thing to bash is Bitcoin.  You are correct that this site is dying.  It is being left behind.  I guess most everyone has their price.

Silver For The People

The Bitcoin Channel


Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:24 | 4199216 geewhiz
geewhiz's picture

Don't be like that john conner, take a page from Jesus's book "Lord forgive them, they know not what they do".

It's new to them, they have never seen this before and are confused. when the early adopters who are the true entrepreneurial speculators pave this brave new road for them, they will come on board saying "I always knew that it would make it."

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:53 | 4199743 jomama
jomama's picture

i certainly won't miss people making sweeping generalizations after acting like they fucking know it all.

if you could tuck all those wanna be conservative rush worshippers under your arm on your way out, that would make my thanksgiving weekend.

best regards,


Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:25 | 4198968 Rusty Trombone
Rusty Trombone's picture

And exactly what do you dumb motherfuckers think the NSA is doing with that behemoth out in Bluffdale , Utah ?

It ain't bout the anal fisting porn you jack off to...

TERA-FLOPS on steroids...... You understand Grasshopper?


I smell Qualcomm at 780, I smell AOL at 630 a share......


Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:42 | 4198984 acjitsu
acjitsu's picture

Gold will follow a very similar path as Bitcoin.  Right now it's in the same consolidation range as Bitcoin was in from Jan13 -Jul 13, although on a much larger scale.  At some point, maybe a year or two from now it will go parabolic as Bitcoin is doing right now.  IMO, the Bitcoin mania is a very compelling, but also ephemeral phenomenon. Probably a beta test.  The real deal, Gold and Silver, when the time is right will follow a very similar blowoff phase as Bitcoin is enjoying right now.  

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:43 | 4199076 d edwards
d edwards's picture

Looks like a mania to me also.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:43 | 4198985 acjitsu
acjitsu's picture

Gold will follow a very similar path as Bitcoin.  Right now it's in the same consolidation range as Bitcoin was in from Jan13 -Jul 13, although on a much larger scale.  At some point, maybe a year or two from now it will go parabolic as Bitcoin is doing right now.  IMO, the Bitcoin mania is a very compelling, but also an ephemeral phenomenon. Probably a beta test.  The real deal, Gold and Silver, when the time is right will follow a very similar blowoff phase as Bitcoin is enjoying right now.  

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 08:50 | 4198998 negative rates
negative rates's picture

It will be much slower, you would still have to compete against all the currencys back with gold, and then introduce the petro dollar effect orbiting the whole mess.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:01 | 4199006 acjitsu
acjitsu's picture


Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:03 | 4199010 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

After Reaching Parity With Gold Bitcoin’s Success Is Putting It Under Growing Strain

 We are searching answers whether Bitcoin is Gold 2.0 or just Dotcom Bubble 2.0 all over again. You know our take already, now Economist weights in with its opinion. And do not forget, please, if you were not the one left holding the bag after the Dotcom Crash, we are all benefiting from Internet revolution now. Just Do Not hold the bag this time.    Idea of Goldcoin crypro-currency based on Gold held in Vaults in Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland and clearing House in London can be Very elegant solution to the US Dollar hangover after QE abuse.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:55 | 4199106 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Idea of Goldcoin crypro-currency based on Gold held in Vaults in Singapore, Hong Kong, Switzerland and clearing House in London can be Very elegant solution to the US Dollar hangover after QE abuse.

But you have to rely on a third party for that to succeed Sufiy. That is for me a BIG problem and I would not go for it, same for Ripples. How do you know the gold is there? Who owns those vaults etc etc.

Really, I am only into bitcoin, because Piratebay still works and has not been shut down by the many many people who would like to shut it down, including hollywood and Governments..... That is my proof of concept.

IMO P2P networks are the future of many things we use today, from messaging to currency to domain names to research.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 09:48 | 4199084 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Dropping from 1200 to the 1000 it was at 24 hrs previously is hardly a crash.But thanks for the BTFD thermometer Tyler! 

I remember last time Tyler was screaming BITCOIN CRASH HAHA at the 140 to 69 "crash" or then at the 240 to 140 "crash".

I bought some both times on the stregth of all the HAHAHA's. $69 and $140. hahaha

Goddamn tulips.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:12 | 4199155 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

There will be lesson here, and they will relate it gold as well.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 10:21 | 4199199 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Observation/prediction as gold and btc cross:

China is and has been hedging their dollar position with gold.

China has been 'OK' with lower (manipulated) prices to facilitate accumulation.

China will likely begin anew to support the gold price to protect their hedge.

My 2 cents

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 11:25 | 4199456 mijev
mijev's picture

I like the mp3 analogy in many ways. There are tons of alternative wannabes, some of which are definitely better than the MP3 format. But it lives on as the defacto standard because of its ubiquity. Any bitcoin alternative would probably have to be either aimed at a specific vertical market, and/or it would have to live happily within the infrastructure that is being developed for bitcoin. There's just too much money being thrown at bitcoin to take on something new in the near future. Ten years from now, who knows what digital currencies will look like and whether there will be a single dominant crypto currency, but the current batch of crappy fiat currencies will be struggling to compete.  

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 11:28 | 4199463 sudzee
sudzee's picture

Does comex accept bitcoin in payment for physical?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 11:37 | 4199491 Drifter
Drifter's picture

US govt has enough prima facie evidence now to declare Bitcoin a ponzi scheme and outlaw trading Bitcoin in US dollars. 

It means no US citizen could trade Bitcoin in dollars, no US based exchange could trade Bitcoin in dollars, and no US corporation could accept Bitcoin for payment.

They can't control Bitcoin but they can control US dollars, US citizens, and US corporations.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 12:49 | 4199731 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

That would be awesome.  Bitcoin's "killer app" is subverting government controls.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 11:43 | 4199507 mijev
mijev's picture

I'm in china at the moment. I went to starbucks and there was a barista there who was working part time and studying finance and computer science. So I asked him if he had heard of bitcoins. No and a blank stare. So I explained in my awful chinese what it was about and it took him just a few minutes to catch on and get excited. Young chinese people had a love affair with digital currencies before but the government shut that down. I'm not sure why the same government is actually encouraging bitcoin use but I think a tenfold increase in the price of BTC is quite possible even in a short period of time. If bitcoin was as easy to buy in the US as it is in China then I would feel even more bullish.

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 13:07 | 4199782 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Looking for speculators:

We'll bet on the 2015 Superbowl.  I'll take either the AFC team or the NFC team.  I don't give a feck.  You pick.

If I win you pay me $1200 USD.  If I lose I pay you 1 Btc.

Any takers?

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 14:17 | 4200006 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Naaaah, it's not a bubble. 

Fri, 11/29/2013 - 21:41 | 4200960 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I went to the store today and wanted to buy an ounce of Bitcoins.  They told me I couldn't.

It's stupid to have the Btc:gold ratio.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 13:03 | 4206801 Rocbottom
Rocbottom's picture

Looks like Soros was wrong.  Bitcoin is the "ultimate" bubble...

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