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Guest Post: Krugman’s Adventures In Fairyland

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by William L Anderson of The Ludwig von Mises Institute,

After studying and teaching Keynesian economics for 30 years, I conclude that the “sophisticated” Keynes­ians really do believe in magic and fairy dust. Lots of fairy dust. It may seem odd that this Aus­trian economist refers to fairies, but I got the term from Paul Krugman.

According to Krugman, too many people place false hopes in what he calls the “Confidence Fairy,” a creature created as a retort to economist Robert Higgs’s concept of “regime uncertainty.” Higgs coined that expression in a 1997 paper on the Great Depression in which he claimed that uncertainty caused by the policies of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal was a major factor in the Great Depression being so very, very long.

Nonsense, writes Krugman. Investors are not waiting for governments to “get their financial houses in order” and protect private property. Instead, he claims, investors are waiting for governments to spend in order to create enough “aggregate demand” in the economy to bring about new investments and, one hopes, full employment.

According to Higgs, the “humor columnist for the New York Times, Paul Krugman, has recently taken to defending his vulgar Keynesianism against its critics by accusing them of making arguments that rely on the existence of a ‘confidence fairy.’ By this mockery,” Higgs says, “Krugman seeks to dismiss the critics as unscientific blockheads, in contrast to his own supreme status as a Nobel Prize-winning economic scientist.”

It seems, however, that Krugman and the Keynesians have manufactured some fairies of their own: the Debt Fairy and the Inflation Fairy. These two creatures may not carry bags of fairy dust, but they might as well, given that their “tools” of using government debt and printing money to “revitalize” the economy have the same scientific credibility.

Let us first examine the Debt Fairy. According to the Keynesians, the U.S. economy (as well as the economies of Europe and Japan) languishes in a “liquidity trap.” This is a condition in which interest rates are near-zero and people hoard money instead of spending it. Lowering interest rates obviously won’t spur more business borrowing, so it is up to the government to take advantage of the low rates and borrow (and borrow).

If governments issue enough debt, argue Debt Fairy True Believers, the econ­omy will gain “traction” as government spending, through the power of pixie dust, fuels a recovery. Governments spend, businesses magically gain confidence, and then they spend and invest. (At this point, we are apparently supposed to just overlook the fact that the Keynesians are saying that we need the Debt Fairy to resurrect the Keynesian version of the Confidence Fairy.)

The Inflation Fairy also plays an important role, according to Keynesians, for if bona fide inflation can take hold in the econ­omy and people watch their money lose value, then they will spend more of their savings. In turn, this destruction of savings will, through the power of Keynesian sorcery, revive the econ­omy. Thus inflation undermines what Keynesians call the “Para­dox of Thrift,” a theory that says if a lot of people withhold some present consumption in order to save for future con­sumption, the economy quickly will implode and ultimately will slip into a Liquidity Trap in which no one will spend anything.

These fairies can work their magic if (and only if) one condition exists: factors of production are homogeneous, which means that government spending will enable all lines of production simultaneously. The actual record of the boom-and-bust cycle, however, tells a different story. It seems that the Debt and Inflation Fairies enable booms along certain lines of production (such as housing during the past decade), but as everyone knows, the fairy dust lost its magical powers and the booms collapsed into recessions.

Austrians such as Mises and Rothbard have well under­stood what Keynesians do not: the structures of produc­tion within an economy are heterogeneous and can be distorted by government intervention through inflation and massive borrowing. Far from being creatures that can “save” an economy, the Debt Fairy and the Inflation Fairy are the architects of economic disaster.

Despite Keynesian protestations that the U.S. and European governments are engaged in “austerity,” the twin fairies are active on both continents. The fairy dust they are sprinkling on the economy, however, is more akin to sprinkling ricin on humans. In the end, the good fairies turn into witches.


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Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:24 | 4202743 Burr's 2nd Shot
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Is Tinkeryellen the Debt Fairy, or is this another reference to Reggie's boyfriend?

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:30 | 4202757 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Just potty talk by those with the power to post OP's.


Keep us away from AIPAC, BIS, or NSA running Bitcoin.


Talk about fairys and tinkerbell, I do agree there are some 'gay' freudian leanings coming indirectly from the OP gods.

Yellen or  Krugman don't have a fucking thing to do with 'fairy tales', that job is for fucking OBama and the MSM(ZH is every much a MSM as the MSM).

Krugman is the voice of reason coming from the NYT telling the liberal intellectuals the honest fucking truth.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:15 | 4202833 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is now to be very much of confusing... where in story is Krugman to break every bone in face? How else is spur on aggregate demand but to local employment of emergency physician and triage nurse...?

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:28 | 4202848 yogy999
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Like I said before, Your funny as hell Boris!! :-)

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:36 | 4202959 Boris Alatovkrap
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You are think hell is to be funny?!

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:01 | 4202995 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Well, we're not there yet, but I'm pretty sure I can see it from here.  

Not very humorous from my perspective.  From the perspective of a banker or politician.... probably hysterical.  "Can you believe they let us get away with this crap??" is what I imagine they giggle themselves to bed thinking every night.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:09 | 4203013 TahoeBilly2012
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Which is why the "drug war" and that fake Isreali/American "war on terror" are such a great Kenynesian programs both...never end, lotsa targets! Start with brown skin types then move to "Tea Party" types...

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:27 | 4203029 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Yeh that's right the RIGHT is AIPAC and they run the drug war, and then they go after tea-party?


Hmmmm why  would that be?

Probably to CULL out those in the 'right' that aren't BIG GUBMINT.


Like the recent KOCH "shutown", exempted MIL&COPS the first week, but that is exactly who should have been shut down.


So let's see ISRAEL WAR is bad (right wing), and drug war (right wing) is bad, ... but the problem is the LEFT will go after tea-party?

This has to be /sarc? Or  is it stupid? Or is it just one person here with 100's of fake monikers posting shit?


Well I do agree with one thing on the permanent ISRAEL(AIPAC) war mongering and that is the LEFT&RIGHT, including KRUGMAN are all owned by IRAEL.

'DRUG WAR' of course is just a war on freedom, ... like the porn war, ... or the long ago alcohol prohibition war, the USA gumint has always loved to rob it citzens forever, and what better way than a war on something in your house, and an excuse to rob that house.


Just another reason to leave the USA.


The LEFT and RIGHT SUCK DICk, the DEM & PUG suck dick, and 99% of all CITIZEN population are free shit army parasites,


great fucking country

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 07:33 | 4203212 negative rates
negative rates's picture

And in the beginning the politicians were turned into dust fairies. In the end, the good fairies turn into witches. Don't ask what the bad fairies turn into

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 09:15 | 4203263 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

It seems Carlin401 is snorting the fairy dust and the hallucinations are a bitch...

Truly delusional.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:36 | 4202860 formadesika3
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Guy had a glass jaw. Seen as 'broken window' fallacy?

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:42 | 4202867 carlin401
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Krugman really does care about 'people'


He's a writer and a thinker and NOT a fucking politician or BANKER.


The banks got their welfare since 2008, and Krugman is the only voice of reason telling the political left in WASH-DC not to fuck the'little guy'


Krugman can be thought of a lobbyist for the poor, as the BANKS and rich own the fucking government, they have no say.


The fact that KRUGMAN advocates that some of the PONZI cash flow to the poor is why he is hated by the banks, and the ZH(MSM).


So pray tell, why does ZH hate Krugman so much? When in effect he is simply 'robbin hood' that advocates that the FED PONZI money should flow to the masses, instead of just to the 'elite' (AIPAC/BIS).

Me thinks that given the ZH history of its hatred for anybody that discussses anything real about TPTB that they hate Krugman and diss him as such, ... but its Ironic, because Krugman speaks for the poor dumb folk on ZH as users, but not for its guardians, who are simply slaves to the master's of our universe.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:05 | 4202906 VD
VD's picture

discusses anything real? Krugman is a deluded joke and it's painfully apparant from reading any of his garbage op-ed bunk over last many years. you don't want real, you want the NYTimes pal.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:26 | 4202934 carlin401
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Well Krugman holds a Nobel Laureate and many advanced degrees from the finest 'institutions' on the planet, the fact that you can't spell leads the question, "Who are you to judge others?"

Krugman is consistent, "NO FUCKING AUSTERITY", he in my mind is speaking to the 'left' as he 'knows' the 'right' don't listen.

Funny that folks like you and I'm sure its ZH (/sarc), but funny that we aren't actually talking about what KRUGMAN's message, but instead we talking about Von Mises Institutes twisted attempt to change the fucking subject, and straw man attacks on Krugman for no apparent reason.

In my mind Von Mises was an interesting author of 'books', but like Ron Paul, I think von mises institute doesn't have a fucking thing to do with the man, other than having stole his name.


I will not disagree that KRUGMAN is good/bad, but his message is consistent, ... DONT FUCKING PUNISH THE POOR BECAUSE THE RICH ARE STUPID.

So now I ask, what kind of fucking MORON could oppose Krugmans theme?


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:30 | 4202945 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

nice try with the carlin name. krugman advocates for the theft of 2-3 % of every persons prchasing power by the fed and govt every year. this disproportionately affects the lwer and middle class. how is that helping the poor?


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:42 | 4202973 carlin401
carlin401's picture

The FED existed long before KRUGMAN was born.

The FED will continue to do what it does, because +90% of the USA all belongs to the FSA ( free shit army that rapes the fucking world ).

IMHO Krugman goes along with party line, ... he simply is the 'liberal stooge' that reminds the vultures to leave a little meat on the bone for the poor.



Stupid fucking debate, I would much rather be talking about our next president HILLARY CLINTON BITCH, but ZH will NOT allow that,

Bashing Krugman is like kicking a Puppy.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:02 | 4203000 Richard Chesler
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Troll cleanup in aisle 2.
Aisle 2, troll cleanup.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 12:29 | 4203506 spine001
spine001's picture

Carli401 I am sad to see good people fight. Krugman is well educated, well me too. And in topics he doesn't understand, like non linear dynamic feedback systems. If you check the web you will find that this is the skill algorithm traders look for and they end up hiring physicists and NOT economists. It actually does allow you to predict market changes a few ticks ahead of time. It is so accurate that the big guys have been forced to break the law and allow their trades to jump the queue, a great article about that here in ZH. So hopefully I have established that economists don't really understand the system behavior of the global economy. From my perspective Krugman does believe in what he predicates and he is sure that he is correct. That is what makes him so dangerous. He has forgotten the Theory of Perspectives of Kahneman. Kahneman (another nobel price winner in economy) makes it extremely clear that we all have a cognitive bias to believe we can understand the behavior of complex systems, when in reality we are only constructing simplified mental models that fit into our preconceptions and biases, another cognitive bias called confirmation bias. This is probably an evolutionary bias to keep us sane when confronted with unresolvable problems. When you understand non linear dynamic feddback systems, you are forced to recognize your limited ability to make predictions of any type. The systems are infinitely dependent on the initial conditions, meaning that a butterfly flap can infinitely change the end point of the system, something that we mathematically see as the solution ofnthe set of differential equations that govern the states through which the system has to evolve. Only very especific equilibrium states are possible.


Once you have develop this understanding and become humble and begin to doubt EVERYTHING you can see the Krugman's and Bernanke's of this world as pityful creatures that emboldened in their false sense of understanding and HUBRIS are being used as stupid puppets by the real players that don't care about anybody or anything except their survival and the survival of their power.


So what do we do to understand these systems in control engineering and physics. Well we have learned that the only way to understadn them is to characterize their dynamic behavior and to define the regions where the system could become stable again, for instance going back to the stone age is a possible attractor of the world economic system, once you understand the possible attractor you attempt to maintain the system in the desired attractor. Or you attempt to guide it to another desired stable attractor, somethimg extremely difficult to do in real life situations. So what do webdo when the system gets out of control, well we simoly shut down the plant and restart it from zero, please imagine restarting the world economic system.



So what is happening? Basically the massive interventions before the QE era of the CB have made the previous attractor unstable and the system is trying on its own to find anothernstable attractor, so here we have a group ofnpeoplenwith NO background academic or experimental in control theory trying to force the system to not abandon the current attractor because they have the enourmous HUBRIS to belkieve that they can prevent it from reaching what it is clearly the new attractor, a world where the inneficient goes bankrupt, where those who don't add value

to society dissapear, something that although normal for nature and the millions of years of evolution is extremely cruel in Western Society's eyes. For doing that they are convinced that their way of intefering with the system will work. Well it is sad to see them doing what they are doing and making an already extremely difficult situation much worse.




Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:47 | 4203247 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Go away and return only after you've been broadsided by a clue.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:57 | 4203363 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

or a 2x4....either would be sufficient in my book.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:08 | 4203289 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

"Well Krugman holds a Nobel Laureate"

I'll counter that with:

"Obummer has a Nobel peace prize?"


They give them out to pricks of all persuasions...


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 12:01 | 4203458 centerline
centerline's picture

Interesting way of putting Krugman.  I tend to agree more than disagree there.  Regarding the FSA, it is a virus.  It is the ponzi.  They aren't owners though.  They are the wave upon which the powerful surf (serf, lol).

Hang 10 man!  This one is a tsunami.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:44 | 4202975 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
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Mate you're like Galileo arguing with the priests why the Earth is NOT the center of the universe. There is so much misunderstanding of the two simple words "inflation" and "deflation". "Let's see, when something deflates, that must be bad". They don't get that it's their standard of living that is deflating.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:56 | 4202993 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the problem in my view...and this is supported by the empirical evidence i might add...that "banks are stupid." THEY are the ones in the liquidity trap...not We the People. the Government has a problem both a: "because only one guy saw the opportunity of a lifetime in Bakken Shale" (he's now a billionaire and the State of North Dakota et al is now rich) and the many other opportunities that existed since the 2008 collapse. (cloud computing, carbon nano, solar, 3d printing, etc) some totally private, some totally public...most missed by the "capitalizers" (short sellers) and "resort to gold thesis" people. in other words "the New Deal was really bad until it became the greatest deal ever." the inability to maintain the gold price however blew LBJ's "Great Society" away forever. the Austrians have become Shrek my view...simply trolling to contain their inherent unhappiness at being on the wrong end here. I do agree however Krugman's "livin' the dream" has its own set of problems and issues as well. in other words "if we're rich beyond belief how come they have all the money?"

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:20 | 4203234 artless
artless's picture

"Krugman holds a Nobel Laureate and many advanced degrees"

Brother you really need some help. Here are a few other Nobels:

Kissinger(mass murdering war criminal) Arafat (terrorist, thief, all around douche) Obama (needs no explanation)

Get my drift? On that note Dear Leader supposedly has a Law degree and Shrub before him a MFA from Ivy league.

Neither men have ANY concept of the law or the constitution much less any understabnding of economics. I'll throw my public high school degree up against any of these trolls ESPECIALLY Krugman anytime and anywhere and I will bury the man in debate simply by citing his countless contradictions THAT ARE CEMENTED IN PRINT FOR ETERNITY and readily available if you chose to actually read the rtipe the fool writes.

From where I'm from Krugman is what we call "a moron's moron".

I oppose his theme. It is statism, collectivism, authoritarianism, outright plain old fascism if you choose to actually know what that means and is instead of throwing it around at just the folks who aren't "for the poor".

Yes absolutely The Krugster is for the poor. His polcies have created millions of them.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:02 | 4203285 VD
VD's picture

krugman, with his nobel, has, with his profound econometric insights, predicted ZERO economic events, not limited to the great recession. he espoused neo-keynesian debt to infinity and sees nothing wrong with, in effect, gov insolvency. another econ clown, clown.


we could dissect his dangerous opining (eg classics like alien invasions, broken windows and the like, not to mention his NEG), but you've already made up your mind...

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:38 | 4203334 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"many advanced degrees from the finest 'institutions' on the planet,"

Kaczynski went to Harvard



Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:22 | 4202929 centerline
centerline's picture

Hmmm... maybe because he tows the line for the establishment using closed system and antiquated analysis that can only be termed dogma.

Watching the world burn while playing "king of the ivory tower" is just the icing on the cake here in terms of why to be repulsed.

Krugman's speaking for the poor is very disingenuos at best.  And I am being kind here.  

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:39 | 4202965 carlin401
carlin401's picture

I'm not so sure,

I don't see krugman on Clintons lear jets, or coasting like greenspan(another von-mises/ayn-rand talker, but does another), or bernanke, or yellen, now those are fucking parasites,

Krugman is just a some fucking economic intellectual that likes to blow his bubble and the NYT will print his shit, and I think he actually enjoy's blowing fart's back into the Rush Limbaugh crowds face.






So there you have it, the real reason that the so called 'stock brokers' of ZH hate KRUGMAN because he points out clearly that all the bonus and shit on WALL-STREET are  based on fucking ILLUSION.



Economist Paul Krugman points out, “The pay system on Wall Street lavishly rewards

the appearance of profit, even if that appearance later turns out to have been an illusion.”




Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:26 | 4203237 artless
artless's picture

Dude, Greenspan left the Rand cult many, many years ago. He never truly understood econ and was sukced in by the Keynsesian hell hole. Don't blame Rand for old Alan. And certainly do not associate ANYTHING free market, libertarian, or Austrian to Greenspan.

Read Mobs, Messiahs, and Markets by Lila Rajiva nad Bill Bonner if you want a real look at Greenspam. He like Krugman are just a tool for the global elite.

You have some work to do.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:23 | 4203302 centerline
centerline's picture

Agreed.  He is a different sort for sure.  And perhaps not parasitical.  I personally lump him the academic group who has done tremendous passive destruction.  His work (like that of so many economists/mathematicians before, including Mises I believe)  becomes a tool of the parasites.  Guilty for trying to ride the fence.

I used to hold out some hope for the profession of economics via Steve Keen.  Really sad to see him withdraw into his world of differential equations over the last year - including getting drawn into Krugman's world.  Not that I don't appreciate his non-linear, disequalibrium, endogeneous, etc. thinking.  He is closer than anyone else.  But he too has the "academia" disease it seems.  A victim of closed system analysis that fails to properly account for international capital flows and how the systems benefit most those who are closest to the money creation.

One such gem is the belief that debt is just money we owe to ourselves.  Another is that one mans debt is another mans financial asset.  On ledger paper this is true.  In real life it is true.  Hence, defensible from an academic standpoint.  Now, let me ask if in practice you see this working to create a stable society or do you see cycles of debt saturation where those who are closest to the creation and control of the money benefit disproportionaly?

Academics who ignore reality make me want to scream.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:42 | 4203340 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"One such gem is the belief that debt is just money we owe to ourselves."

Enron tried that

that is at the core of a lot of this stupdity.

in the end however, I think it's more lies than stupidity

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 17:51 | 4204302 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Why do you ignorants always get shit so wrong?

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:42 | 4202974 yepyep
yepyep's picture

krugman is a shill and you are delusional.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:13 | 4203064 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Krugman is a thinker.

I think that's the funniest shit I've read all month, dude. Thanks for that.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 11:01 | 4203369 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

These guys (Krugman, et al) have an agenda...and it is not liberty and freedom or the truth...


They comb through the data looking for historical information that 'prove' their point.....anyone can do that. Predicting the future, now that is a real feat. 

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 04:22 | 4203159 SunRise
SunRise's picture

If Krugman cares about people, then why does he instantly bypass any concern with robbing them to pursue his ideas?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 09:26 | 4203266 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Krugman can be thought of a lobbyist for the poor, as the BANKS and rich own the fucking government, they have no say."

Krugman is a "progressive" nanny-state enabler preaching something called socio-economics. Which is nothing more than the state deciding how many crumbs the poor will recieve from the tables of the rich & powerful so they don't revolt and burn everything they own to the ground.

The interesting thing to note in this scheme is the poor always STAY POOR and the plugged-in wealthy & powerful always STAY RICH. That is to say, the poor remain in bondage, while he and the other overseers of the plantation remain fat & happy.

He is the worst sort of human being imaginable, a geuine wolf in sheeps clothing, who jumps up on his desk at the NYT's & howls constantly that the rich & powerful "progressive" statists (like Bloomberg, Schumer, Fwank, etal) are the only ones who know whats best for the poor...even as the ranks of the poor continue to swell to proportions never seen or imagined in this country before.

Trust the results your eyes reveal, not what someone says those results are.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:26 | 4203306 centerline
centerline's picture

Outstanding post!

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:33 | 4203320 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

people who write and think can be stupid

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 11:06 | 4203376 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

He's a fucking idiot

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 13:12 | 4203618 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

The policies Krugman advocates hurts everyone besides TPTB and the very, very rich, no matter how they are implemented.  He is a fool and a tool.  That is why we hate him.  If you can't see that then you are either blind or some kind of disinformation agent of TPTB or both.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:12 | 4202919 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Fairyism lives in the land of the Left.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:16 | 4203020 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Fascism lives in the land of the right.


"When fascism comes to america, it will be wrapped in an american flag" -smedly butler 1932


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:15 | 4203107 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

Umm Fascism is a leftist political orientation. The Nazis performed best in traditional left wing areas, and worst in conservative places like Bavaria. Jospeh Goebbels said the Nazis were the party of the German Left. Mussolini was a socialist.



Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:37 | 4203115 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Well I have a hard time seeing the John Denver crowd as
fascist, but right-wingers in the USA meet the mark,

Of course Hillary, Pelosi, Fienstein, are all fascist

But as a rule-of-thumb the 'Pugs' tend to be the
law&order party,

Yep, HITLER came to power via the anti-war german hippy
movement of the 1920's post WWI, the swastika is a 'peace symbol' in buddhism for 1,000+ years.

Mussolini in mind created fascism, but yes HITLER came to power from the LEFT, but once in power went right, Mussolini was always right.

Nazism is national-socialism, italian fascism was business and government, Hitler simply 'nationalized' all the company's funny when the USA conquered IRAQ post WWII they put saddam-hussein power and had him incubate HITLER NAZI government, that's how impressed the CIA was with HITLER's post WWII plan for a new world order.

Yep, left and right don't mean shit in real-politik, but in the street it still means bambi on the left, and cop on the right.


How many 'liberal' Pugs are there in the USA? I can't think of one, how many 'liberal' Dem's? I can only think of 2 ( oregon&vermont)


I still say that KRUGMAN is a liberal,... that he cares about people.

Before you assholes made 'liberal' a bad word, ... long ago it meant "Liberty", ... a good thing,

But the assholes hate liberty, so they demonized the word, but same for 'conservative' long ago teddy roosevelt wanted to converse the forests for jobs and hunting and he was demonized for 'conservation'

Both conservationism, and liberalism once upon a time were good things, ... only now in ORWELLIAN USA 2013 are they bad.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:42 | 4203118 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

Mussolini was never right wing, he was always a proud socialist. You clearly have not studied the man. Fascism is a versatile ideology with the potential to arouse sympathy from across the spectrum but it tends toward the left.

The communists were a rather 'law and order' bunch. 

I would consider myself rather right-wing but that means different things to different people. In my case it means cultural conservatism combined with steadfast opposition to the welfare/warfare/police state.

Krugman is a mouthpiece for the central bankers. He couldn't give a fig about the average goyim in the street.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:34 | 4203239 artless
artless's picture

So confused.

Liberalism is a word that was co-opyed by the progressives. There is nothing whatsoever in Kgurman's writing or ideology that even hints of Liberty.

Perhaps you should read Liberalism by Von Mises. Maybe check in with the term classic liberal or paleo liberal and you might get and idea about what you are trying to speak.

Ah yes and the progressives. Wilson. Rascisr, segregationisr, war monger, income tax, The Fed. Good Times. Teddy Roosevelt. war monger, power nungry anti-market, globalist, murdering, elitist shitbag. Good times. So now liberal is the dirty word in some quarters so they go back to progressive. Same shit, different messengers. Statism, socialist econ policies, fascist mindset, and all at the barrel of a gun. Good times.

Krugman is just one of the useful idiots in the long parade.

Okay, that's it I have to go ride my bike for 5 hrs.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:47 | 4203347 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you got to get out of this left right thing and just think about crime, organized crime.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:26 | 4202747 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Krugman doesn't really give a fuck about 'reality' or 'austerity', he deals with what is, ... and he's probably right.

Given that paper money can be printed to the moon, and given that the USA has the military power to force feed the world to eat its toilet paper, even if the world is NOT hungry,... it can continue, for no other reason because it can.

To go back, or to change, what once was, would be to terrible and painful for all, it is far better to embrace the culture and WASH-DC that we have, rather than 'reset' and hope that out of the carnage comes something better.

Given that we have now entered a permanent state of 'PONZI' there is no reason it cannot last forever, given that it is back by military force.

Study ROME, they lasted 500 years after their money was near worthless, their problem is they went to a mercenary army, and the farmers quit sending grain for worthless money. Given that the USA can go back to enlist the 'hungry' to keep the status quo protected, the USA doesn't have to end like Rome, and has CHINA or RUSSIA proved long ago the FARMER, can easily be forced to deliver grain to the city's forever.

Just stating the obvious, rather than talking about 'fairy shit'.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:38 | 4202769 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

You should double check your history.  Western Roman empire fell shortly after seperating from the eastern half which was the half with all the money.  It took awhile for the west to implode because of the power vacuum in western Europe.  The germanic tribes eventually changed that.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:43 | 4202781 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Read 'rise and fall of rome' 3 volume set,


It took over 500 years for ROME ( the fucking city ) to fall, even though it was effectively kaput early on,


500 years after Caligula and the fuck heads were electing horses to be senators ROME was still alive, but eventually the farmers quit sending grain to the city, and gradually the population went back to the farms to find food,


The point is once money is worthless, its takes a long fucking time for a 'washington-dc' to become a ghost town.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:18 | 4202837 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Ghost town!? Maybe Washington DC is not ghost town, but is zombie town full of walking dead that is void of human soul.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:04 | 4202900 jon dough
jon dough's picture

Is zombie town but walking they are not. Mostly in limos they are riding.

Are tippers of bigness but careful must be taken so fingers extra you bring home not.

(Am to be trying in your socks and shoes to walk 1.609344 kilometers.)

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:36 | 4203034 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Is that you, Yoda?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 12:06 | 4203465 jon dough
jon dough's picture

,,,busted, I am...

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 13:52 | 4203685 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

In Russia voice over versioning of Star Wars, Yoda is not so strange to sound. But "you are my father" Darth Vader is very to be funny!

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:08 | 4202913 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"its takes a long fucking time for a 'washington-dc' to become a ghost town."

So the best thing to do is to help it along. Send the people still in Detroit there.

They know how to get it done.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:24 | 4203110 carlin401
carlin401's picture

You want to help expedite the collapse? Leave,

The more people that bail, and take their wealth out, the sooner the USA will be a nation of 100% FSA, ...

The notion of waiting or fighting is a fools game.

Vote with your feet, its the ONLY VOTE IN AMERICA THAT YOU HAVE

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:49 | 4203350 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the roman computers were a lot slower

so were the crashes

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 17:56 | 4204321 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Go kick rocks you wannabe dictator.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:33 | 4203032 novictim
novictim's picture

The Roman Republic collapsed and dictators took control because oligarchs imported slave labor, displaced the Citizen-soldiers off their land and replaced them with mercenaries.

From that point on the fate of Rome and the empire was inevitably one of slow decline, ineptitude in the form of inherited wealth and power and a decline in the standard of living to the point of destitution and serfdom for the masses.

Keep up the good-fight, Carlin!  'night!

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:58 | 4203092 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Yep, the USA today is quickly becoming a 'paid' mercenary army, who has NO HAMILTONIAN interest in USA 'democracy'.

All that stand's in the way of total collapse is that the USD is still valuable.

He who controls the FUEL, FOOD, controls the world, so long as the FOOD&FUEL is sold in USD, the US gubmint can go on and on .... for a long fucking time.

So long as the USD is valuable the USA can hire the worst assholes on the planet to be their mercenary army, Rome had the problem that the army wanted to be paid in 'gold', no such problem here in the USA, as now phony-money (usd's) and soon nsa bitcoin will be paid to the killers,


This is why the EMPIRE will never allow the gold standard, cuz it puts a 'cap' on the empire, but once you go electronic cash USD or BTC, the sky is the fucking limit.

Oh yea you'll say BTC has a limit of 27 million blocks, my fucking arse, the software can be changed any given time to and be extended to quad-zillions,....

The US debt can go to quad-zillions too so long as everybody else is doing it.

When will it end? Fucking a long time, .... watch the food, ... cuz that's where the war's in the not to distance will be fought.

now that the USA has stolen almost all the worlds oil, its essential that they next turn their SAURON eye towards the world AG-LAND with water.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:05 | 4203288 VD
VD's picture

ignonrayynce ^

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:40 | 4202775 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

<<Study ROME>>

Please do,

before you comment.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:13 | 4202921 HulkHogan
HulkHogan's picture

I've studied a lot about Rome and ancient cultures, and he's not wrong. It's much more complicated than just the farmers stopped sending grain to Rome, but it's not like he made up a tall tale about it's fall. I, for one, don't think Rome ever fell, but the heart of the Empire shifted through time. For example, kings from the Middle Ages linked their family trees back to Rome, Napoleon was nicknamed the King of Rome, and American Government and buildings are fashioned in the Roman style. The Roman Empire never died, it just evolved and is now centered in DC.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:51 | 4203089 carlin401
carlin401's picture

read william & ariel Duran'ts "History of the World",
finest 50 volume set of world history ever written,

and he summed up the entire collapse of Rome as "When
the money became absolutely worthless ( gold to lead, or even worse than lead ) the farmers quit sending the grain,... when there was no grain, there was no bread, and ... that was it,

We can only WISH the USD will collapse to ZERO in the near future, but sadly it may take a long fucking time :(

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:37 | 4203329 centerline
centerline's picture

Rome did experience a period where coinage collapsed.  I am too lazy to look it up, but I recall is was about an 80 year trend out of the centuries it took the Roman empire to truly disintegrate.

I seriously doubt it will take that long for the dollar to die.  Or, maybe we should be talking about what it does instead of what it is.  Since the 1600's or so, reserve currencies dont last more than a few hundred years, give or take a century.  Crap, in the last 100 years we have seen 2 world wars that culminated in Bretton Woods.

I do think though that the timeframe for what is coming is much longer than anyone wants to endure.  20 years to bottom is possible.  Not 80 though.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 17:58 | 4204333 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

The issue is that Rome took so long to collapse because it took nearly a week to get information out of Rome itself and maybe months before that same information would reach the rest of the empire.


In the US people can know something within minutes of it happening. The speed by which information travels is the main factor behind how fast empires can collapse, and honestly you need to shut up about ROme, because the US was never ass strong as Rome was for it's time. THe US was maybe a weak version of the EI Empire.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:32 | 4202761 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

We have massive inflation now and have had for sometime.  We have asset inflation officially counted as growth.  Keynesian economists seem to discount asset inflation and focus on consumer inflation


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:34 | 4202954 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Keynesian Economist, member of bankster class, politician is use of double speak. When refer to inflation concern, is worker wage is rise, when refer to deflation concern, is asset value plummet. Inflation ? opposite deflation. Only concern of Central Bank and puppet economist is rig monetary system for greed and gain.

Beside, is it that in AmeriKa, food, housing, fuel is remove from calculation of CPI, so what heck is meaning of inflation today? Boris is leave without speech.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:03 | 4203001 carlin401
carlin401's picture

100% correct

When money collapses, and jobs ... such as now, things people need sky-rocket, so gubmint takes them off the 'inflation list' things people don't need drop, cuz people sell.

Today in this stage of USA collapse people need food and fuel, and they don't need mcMansions and auto's and toy's ( boats, gun's, gold ). So 'stuff' collapses in price (deflation). Things like food go ASTRO but so for all the world now, food is going up 100% a year, as 'food' is still priced in USD, on the world market.


Making sense out of the USA, is making sense out of Orwells fictional world, its doesn't have to make sense. Mark Twain said it best, truth is always stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.

The USA today is far stranger and weirder than anything in 1984 Orwellian prediction.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 03:26 | 4203143 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Boris is wise. Pay attention.


Was Orwell fiction?


Stack On

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:39 | 4202772 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Ludwig von mises institute, ... while I love 'von misses' and all his anti government talk, when I see the institute on the tombstone  here I can't help to think about Larouche, or Scientology, or any other nut cases since the dawn of time.


If you want to talk about 'tinkerbell' then it would be those who honestly fucking think that 'we' could ever return to a 'gold standard', ... the USA economy is a permanent ponzi and as such until the day it dies  only lies will keep it glued together.


Nutcases think that if only they could put their 'ron paul' of the week into power, that all the power of the USA could be transferred to them so they could 'make the USA right',


But we would ask 'right into what?'


I love the works  of Von Mises, but as a 'real anarchist' myself, I see von mises as an intellectual anarchist of the 1800's, the problem of course is the USA is a New World Order NAZI Imperial Army that the World has never seen, and keeping the beast held together is only because 1,000's agencys are always killing each other and spying on each other. If it were true that one little group could replace the USA power, then the NSA would create a COUP in a nano-second, the only thing that keeps the USA status-quo in check, is what we have 'endless' free money to pay off all the private army's NSA,CIA,FBI,DHS,....


It's in nobodys interest to STOP the QE, for once the QE stops then the DHS or DEA, or FBI will go door to door to rob and rape you blind, ... so enjoy the voice of reason coming from Krugman,


then again, get as far away from the USA as you can,


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:57 | 4202807 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

If they go door to door they might want to stay in states that are not conservative if they want to live

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:15 | 4202834 carlin401
carlin401's picture

There's a great story from a BULGARIAN friend of mine, post Russian Collapse, you know in the 1980's.


The first week of the collapse the police went home-to-home to 'inventory' all the wealth, they said so they would know how to protect people, if they knew who to protect.


The following weeks the cops of all types went home-to-home at gun point and took  everything that had been reported earlier that prior week. There was never any discussion about left or right.


The cops being the only guys with guns and KNOWing the their paychecks were no longer coming, took it to themselves to get their 'golden parachute' early and this happend almost every where russia collapsed in eastern europe.


To suggest that the cops in the USA will be nice in  red/blue is bullshit,

When they come to your home you are either COP or little people.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:59 | 4203053 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

We are not unarmed, nor are all of trained in being ruled like serfs.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:21 | 4203085 carlin401
carlin401's picture

The Bulgarians were fighting men, and they had arms,

The first week the cops came they came as friends, ... the next week they came back for the 'goods' it was one of those deals that their was martial-law they go house-to-house and in the morning everything was gone, including the fucking guns.

American's are PUSSY's compared to Bulgarians, these people have been fighting their entire lives, but the cops first came as friends, ask about gun's, and can you 'protect yourself', and of course folks said, yep I have a gun, I'm ok, then the cop's know to send a SWAT-TEAM to that house,...
This will all transpire in the USA exactly the same,

Your fucking gun don't mean shit, when 50 cop's bang in the door at 2AM and put a gun up your asshole, you say "YES SIR".


Remember KATRINA? The first thing FEMA did was disarm everyone, ... think your gun means anything? It doesn't mean shit, other than your are on their list.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 04:39 | 4203165 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Your Bulgarian cops worked for the autocratic state. They were trained as oppressors and tools of the State. Our cops are no angels but they are more of a mix. In a societal breakdown like you observe I do not think you will get the same universal shakedown. Our transition would be the opposite direction, as well. It would be from more liberty to autocracy. Americans have a good deal of property and are generally optimists by history so it is hard to resist the drift to autocracy in the early stages.

As far as how much fight each party, Bulgarian or American is a fair debate. The Bulgarians did not have enough fight to throw off the communist/autocratic state. We will see if Americans have enough fight and principle to resist its imposition. On different days I might give you different answers. I can only guess.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:49 | 4203349 centerline
centerline's picture

+1 on these strings of posts Carlin.  Although I think when the SHTF, the initial focus will be containment of the FSA in and around major population centers.

The cops are already their own clan.  In some places they are already doing what you saying... funding themselves with ill-gotten cash.  Particularly in the "border zone" which in the case of Florida is the whole state.  If any ZH'ers dont know what this is, google a map of the US and notice the new shaded area around the perimeter.  Then find out what that shaded area is.  Then find out what it means.  Then find out how it is used and abused.  Enjoy.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 11:18 | 4203396 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

uh, you are mistaken about South MS there was no 'disarming' of people by anyone....people walking around with ARs, AKs, shotguns, pistols all strapped to their sides. Had two FL state troopers come to my friend's parents beach house while we were 'scavenging' for personal items. I had a pistol strapped on my side and my AR propped up in full view. The guys asked nicely if we were supposed to be here. I said yes. They asked if we need any supplies (water, wipes, sunscreen, etc). We took some water and they went on their merry way. Why weren't these people disarmed? 1) There was no violence 2)We were equipped just as well as they were plus if they had to call for 'backup' it may not they were on their own just like we were.

There is confidence in numbers. Remember, if you think there will be 50 cops show up at your doorstep, then you probably need 25 'friends' to ensure that they do not see you as an easy target.....Robbers, Looters, Thieves only steal from the weak. If you give them the choice of life (move along) or death (try to take your stuff) I bet they will choose life....where did I learn this lesson...from Clint Eastwood UNFORGIVEN.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 22:59 | 4205333 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Interesting, Jerry. I have this "Western Sheriff" theory. In the wild west the entire town and all citizens were armed. This tends to make everyone more polite. As law enforcement or even a bad guy it makes you calculate things a bit. When sheriffs assert "I am the law." you are at the beginning of oppression and abuse of power. It is also hard for any gang, mob or particular group to take power. Note the local citizens in several Mexican towns who have armed themselves and jailed both the cops and the drug dealers. This is the American 2nd Amendment at it's finest.

There is the saying, "An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject." The more I think it through the more significant that is.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 03:21 | 4203138 starfcker
starfcker's picture

Come on fool, where is the manpower to send 50 cops to every house? leave america? you're truly nuts. plenty of people here live in ignorant bliss of federal politics and will never truly be affected by any of this. to have any idea what's going on is aggravating, but not terminal by any means. i am amazed and have been for some time, at the stability the banksters have created. distorted? yes. corrupted? no question. but we are nowhere near collapse or revolution. the men running the show may be slimeballs, but they are really smart slimeballs, and seem adept at learning on the fly. the groundswell from the right is turning out to be a force that cannot be ignored, and has so far stopped some really bad things from happening. the mid terms might be a tipping point of sorts. not a time to take drastic action. patience, grasshopper

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 18:03 | 4204346 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You are an anarchist, and think Mises was one as well? You're a moron, Mises wasn't an anarchist, neither is Ron Paul.

The cops in the US are not even close to being like that. The US has Sheriff's for a reason.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:44 | 4202785 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Betty Boop: Poor Cinderella (1934) (10:22)


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:52 | 4202797 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

His beard smells faintly of Dimon taint, with a hint of Blankfein nutsack.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 21:56 | 4202804 hawk nation
hawk nation's picture

Fuck you krugman you piece of shit mouthpiece for the banking cartel

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:07 | 4203007 novictim
novictim's picture

hawk...boy, you got this world upside down and backwards.  Mises slobs are the guys working for the banking cartels, not Krugman.

The ignorance here on ZH is astounding.  

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:37 | 4203083 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Well as much as I hate the DEM party, it must never be
forgotten that Ron Paul is a rePUGlican, and as such the 'god' of ZH, and thus all shit run's downhill, and the honey pot of all shit, is pretty much 'dogma' here on ZH.

Like QE 'bad' for the pheasants, but 'good' for GoldmanSacks.

Or Austerity is 'good' for the common fuckables, but bad for the US Auto or US banks,... Funny I see all this Von Mises crap about 'austerity' for the minions, but where is the cry for austerity for the cop's or MIL? or banks?

I see KING-KOCH orchestrate a GUBMINT shutdown, but then the same day he 'exempts' MIL&COP's, which are exactly what the REAL FUCK Von-Mises (the man) would have been up in arms about for Von Mises, said that the problem with government was the cops, prison guards, and hangmen.

The problem of course is the hipsters, have no knowledge of fucking history, like yesterday Buckaroo Banzai saying hte "The internet is 20 years old", like fucking shit, the entire basis of knowledgeable respect here is based on lies and ignorance ( DOD/DARPA invented the 'internet' in the 1960's ), its over 50 years old.

The Von Mises Institute would has clearly never read any of the books written by Von Mises the man.

Von Mises hated fucking fascists and their brown nosing

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 18:07 | 4204361 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Uhh, The institute was established by Mises' best friend; Lew Rockwell and supported by Rothbard, Hoppe, and Walter Block. All of those people were friend's of Mises you idiot. Their families are rather connected, Ron Paul was part of that group of friends as well, and all of their families get together every year. I know because I have been there twice now to join their cook out and their conferences.

It might be hard for you to understand seeing as how you only think people can be organized by you and your delusional twats..



Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:08 | 4202817 e.blair
e.blair's picture

Maybe Keynes is just a cover.  Maybe Krugman is just into theft.  Is ZH naive or just playing along?  ZH is going Drudge stupid.  Becoming unreadable.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:01 | 4203056 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I actually think you have something there. I wonder if Krugman is smart enough to know that most of what he believes in bull, but he is loyal to the leftist power structures and ideology.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:08 | 4202823 Bruce Flea
Bruce Flea's picture

Somehow I always KNEW PK was a fairy...

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:08 | 4202824 Reptil
Reptil's picture

Corruption Gnome?
Hyperinflation Goblin?
Sytemic Collapse Trolls?

where's my magic cape?

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:23 | 4202841 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture


So the inflation fairy dust is intended to euthanize the savers at the same time making them paupers (according to Keynes himself no less.)

That should work out well. Then they (the savers) join the FSA (because now they're paupers) and vote FSA party for the rest of their life.


Then their children vote FSA party for life too ('Look what they did for Grandpa, gave him 'dignity' and FS right to the very end!' Yay, FSA party!)

Wait, someone says, 'What happened to the savers? Don't we need some savers to like 'save'?'


O we still have 'savers' someone says. They're called 'Corporations!

(Yay! go Corporations!) They're people too. They get taken care of just like Grandpa. They get their FS too. (Or at least some of their top officers do. And those guys 'save' and invest' in the future of this country.


Are you sure? someone else says. 'Things don't seem to be getting any better. How are they 'investing' that money? <suspicious lifting eyebrow>


I don't know but it must go somewhere. I know they're looking out for the economy (and the environment, don't forget the environment, I saw it on the TV)

Fuck I can't go on.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:50 | 4202980 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Number one them I have is "Get the fuck out of the usa"


Yep, savers have always been the enemy of a mercantile economy, the urban myth of the USA is work hard and save, ... 100% bullshit, because if even more than 3% did that, the entire ponzi would collapse,


Back in my day we had a word the USA, it was called 'planned obsolesence', fucking waste, toil, and spend, ... its the USA way ...


But guess what? If your going to live in the USA, you pretty much got to play, ... want to keep your money or your gold? Stay far away from the USA.

To blame Krugman for what ails the USA is bullshit, what ails the USA is that +90% of the voters vote for 'cargo' and the USA is a cargo-cult, and now there is less than 5% left with shit to steal.


Fix the USA? Are you out of your fucking mind? You can take a colony of leppers and make good, throughout history only incineration solves the problem. Want not to die a horrible death? Get far away from the USA.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:07 | 4203009 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"you want our oil? too phucking bad." same goes for the nat gas for the time being it would appear. at least the military makes more sense exists to protect our resources not deplete them. having said that just ask Mother Russia how hard it is to monetize these create banking period let alone a "banking cartel." don't even get me started on an "insurable risk."

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:35 | 4202857 novictim
novictim's picture

I'm embarrassed for Anderson.  The arguments is just a series of ad hominems and not at the level one would expect from a true academic.  This Mises Institute and its Mouseketeers are clearly DESPERATE to gain some media attention...and maybe some more Koch Bros funding of their think tanks.??  You bet!


"...if bona fide inflation can take hold in the econ­omy and people watch their money lose value, then they will spend more...[and] through the power of Keynesian sorcery, revive the econ­omy.

Why yes, of course it would, Bub.  But it is not just the consumers who would spend.  Remember that $32 Trillion of off shore tax haven dollars that sit like a wet blanket over this world economy?  Guess what, Anderson?  That is also money that will come roaring back to life in the form of jobs and capitalist ventures...  

Folks, Anderson is not telling you that Keynesians are running the show cause they are not.  But you would think so given the complaining they do about Keynes and their attempt to make Government Debt a synonym for Keynesian stimulus.  Don't fall for it.  


I hate Mises to pieces and I hope you do to.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:50 | 4202885 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Well this article rots to hell, smells like a John Bircher took a shit, and used some Scientology toilet paper to clean his AIPAC rectum.


But the real question, is why does ZH OP this shit? For what purpose? Certainly von-mises institute is an advertiser, and yes I agree that they're begging for attention.

Why not use the blogger-fodder for the banks? Why not a mention of Dimon, or Corzine, or Goldman Sachs, well we all know that the GOLDMAN-SACKS is the bank that KOCH uses, and thus it wouldn't do well.


So fuck the little people to the bone, because the nickels you steal from the poor is the same as the Trillions that rain on the rich.

Me thinks essentially is KRUGMAN doesn't want the economy to TANK, but the KOCK assholes want to maximize PAIN to forward their RIGHT WING FASCIST GOVERNMENT ASAP.


Krugman doesn't want to see pain, ZH posts shit that supports the enemy which begs to ask?

Is ZH ran by the enemy?


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:01 | 4202904 novictim
novictim's picture


I'm currently working under the assumption that ZH is run by a few financial hipsters who really don't know enough to weigh-in on the actual issues...but they cover their buts with snark and snear.  

But I believe in the power of the argument and the possibility of debate fostering true knowledge so ...gulp gulp gulp...I really don't object to the Mises stooges posting their sophmoric drivvel...gup gulp fosters healthy discussions and debate.  (God I can't believe I typed that crap.)


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:14 | 4202925 carlin401
carlin401's picture

In the old days we threw darts at the newspaper to pick a topic for debate, if 'fairys and koch' are  what the dart hits, then we must ask what coffee shop is our hipsters hanging out at?


I'm a little  more negative not bad this year, but a few years ago just a mentionof BIS or AIPAC on this forum would get you deleted, banned, and IP blocked, its almost like now they just let the bitch run for ad-click nickels, and come on once a day and have 'google' pre-programmed with 'ron paul, marc faber, bitcoin, jim rogers", and what ever google returns get's posted.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:12 | 4203231 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Well, now we know how trolls play tennis - with word salads.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 17:45 | 4204281 shiftless
shiftless's picture

"God I can't believe I typed that crap."

I can't believe you did either; it marks you as an idiot. The article as posted is correct. Krugman is a moron. Fuck Bernanke. Anything else I can help you understand?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 11:24 | 4203403 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

you, sir, are the enemy....or the enema. whatever.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:57 | 4202893 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

that is also money that will come roaring back to life in the form of... bigger ponzi's.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:36 | 4202958 novictim
novictim's picture

explain your thinking...

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 18:10 | 4204369 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Go play in traffic asshole.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:40 | 4202866 fukidontknow
fukidontknow's picture

I have a beer fairy - I think she's a keynsian as she stimulates aggregate demand! 

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:46 | 4202876 novictim
novictim's picture

Now we're talkin'!  This article forced me to drink a Fransiskaner Weissbier in one gulp...the PTSD I have from battling these Mises guys is drinking me to drink all sorts of beer such as Laganitas Sumpin Sumpin and Hop Stupid and others like Pliny the Elder...must drink more beer to muffle the voices from the Mises institute....

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:08 | 4202907 carlin401
carlin401's picture

You know the only beer we have is 'tsing dao', its piss, and I cut it with ice, my god what I would give for a 'pliny the elder'.

Normally when men talk of fairy's, and such its a homosexual thing, and honestly if one were to search the internet one could find much, so my question is 'why in the fucking hell does ZH post this spitoon dribble?'

How about some posts's on KOCH?

It scares me that when only one man is willing to speak for the poor, that the poor themselves are the first to throw rocks at that man, if told to do so by the status quo.

Make no mistake that Krugman cares for all human kind, as he is a humanist, but the 'status quo' are vultures.

Sure they want to run the USA to the  ground, and they want a civil-war, and out of the ashes KOCH will create a super gunbmint, and ZH will become the Goebbels of the New World Order,... its a great Narrative,

Sure the DEM & PUG party in the USA suck dick,

But the truth is FED/QE isn't going away, can't go away, look at the fucking shutdown, KOCH engineer and accomplish not a fucking thing cuz they exempted cops and mil the first fucking day.


Von Mises said "The essence of GUBMINT is beating, killing and Imprisoning"

I say the "ESSENCE of KOCH and the MISES 'Hank Paulson' Institute and TEAM-GoldmanSacks is buggery and cannibilism.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:34 | 4202955 novictim
novictim's picture

Damn straight, carlin!

Seriously, there is no one looking after the working poeple of this country.  Our future is cage fighting for the entertainment of the elites and oligarchs.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 05:43 | 4203180 starfcker
starfcker's picture

ok novictim, you are right. why do you suppose that is? i think the republican party is doing exactly what it is supposed to do, look  out for large business interests and the well to do. that is their role in the two party system and as their reward they should get maybe 30% of the vote. now the dims. the moment bill clinton signed NAFTA, working americans ceased to have a political party that looked out for their interests. the fact that the populist upswelling is coming from the right (tea party) is curious to say the least. especially since it's in response to another fake democrat. right now we have 2 parties and 3 political persuasions. liberal (scarce, but with no representation) republican (both dem and repug parties, working together to destroy america) and conservative (in this case, populist.) y

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:46 | 4202873 carlin401
carlin401's picture

So fucking funny, when GOLDMAN SACKS wants trillions of FED money, ... no talk about 'fairy tales', its real men with history of playing football.


While I agree that Krugman appears to be a beta-male, unlike the alpha males like Hank US Treasurer,


It's quite funny when you think that in spite of all the rhetoric on ZH about how they hate the 'banker', that at the end of the day they always root for the wolf(dimon), and sheer the sheep(krugman).

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 22:50 | 4202880 novictim
novictim's picture

God...just when I thought no one else could see this hypocrisy....but still must drink more beer...thanks carlin!

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:16 | 4203233 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I'm guessing you guys get paid by the word

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:14 | 4202924 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

I wanted to see a serious discussion here by Dr. Paul Krugman no less (he used to post here under that screen name).

But so far just a couple of his trolls and minions.

Waiting... <round in the chamber> 

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:28 | 4202941 novictim
novictim's picture


...make sure the barrell is firmly pushed against the upper you live in an upstairs apartment?  just nake sure that you have a telephone book over your head...

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:08 | 4203010 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Oxymoron, serious discussion on ZH, ... the next thing you will tell us is that 'once upon a time',

I don't think so, the hipsters running ZH are still wet behind the ears from mommy's birth sack, ... me thinks that long ago it was even MORE adolescent here.



When the OP itself uses no factual information about krugman, you can hardly except anything to follow. When people see a food fight they throw food, they hardly try to make reason out of an event.

Nobody want's a debate, the ENTIRE basis of ZH is too post insipid shit, and people make stupid fucking comments.

It's a biz model that generates a few nickel clicks in ad revenue a day for the website owner.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:56 | 4203047 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

What, are you sobering up all a sudden?

Or was that the other guy?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:28 | 4203075 carlin401
carlin401's picture

shit 'drinking time' still doesn't start for me for another 6 hours, ... I'm still on the AM java,


I just thought it was hypo-critical to diss Krugman, considering he's just playing Robin Hood with 'phony money'.

Shit better to give Trillions to the Poor than to Goldman Sacks.

A lot of BULLSHIT here about the FSA, but truth is the fucking bankers are the biggest sluts at the USA pig

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:35 | 4203105 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture


That's the first (and the one before that) sensible comment I've heard you make all evening. (and AIPAC)

But to praise that shill Krugman.


Don't diss me for the oxymoron. I'm snarkaleptic.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:36 | 4202957 Clueless1
Clueless1's picture

I have seen Paul Krugman referred to as a pre-Copernican Obscurist by post Keynesian ecomomist Steve Keen.   Keen's comparison of Krugman to a geocentrist making up bullshit to preserve the paradigm that the universe revolves around the earth, rather than studying data without bias, is quite entertaining, as was the 'Blog-Fight' between the two.  Easy enough to find with a search engine, if you are interested.

This does not mean that I totally agree with Keen's theories, but they certainly make for interesting reading.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:39 | 4202967 novictim
novictim's picture


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:42 | 4202971 novictim
novictim's picture


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:07 | 4203008 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

I see you've only been here 12 weeks Clueless1.

You should have been here when Dr. Paul Krugman himself was pontificating in these discussions. He was the lampshade of the party!

He would certainly get a chuckle out of that mention of the 'Blog-Fight' between him and Steve Keen. Geocentrist, indeed!!!

Always the good sport, I know he enjoys a good dialogue. Look at how open-minded he was to the comments in his column at the NYT. Great guy! And a champion of the poor is to understate the obvious! He and Michael Moore share a room somewhere in Manhattan, but no one know where. Proof enough?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:51 | 4203043 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

Two junks!  Have mercy Dr. Paul Krugman, have mercy Micheal Moore. I didn't mean it.

<but yeah, I meant it.>

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 05:49 | 4203182 starfcker
starfcker's picture

have mercy? krugman was generously offered more sacks of nuts than any other poster here by the good readers of ZH. ingrate

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 11:56 | 4203447 Clueless1
Clueless1's picture

Thank you.  It did not occur to me to search the ZH archives.  Appreciated.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:03 | 4203058 PubliusTacitus
PubliusTacitus's picture

I would actually compare Krugman as a cross between Dr. Evil on speed and Nathan Thurm (Martin Short on 1980s SNL).


Krugman is a post-Einsteinian obscurest, and an asshole.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:21 | 4203069 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

With Krugman, I always suspected it was angel dust and not fairy dust.


Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:37 | 4202960 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I am naive. Is ZH full of juice?


Stack On

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:43 | 4202976 knukles
knukles's picture

Dere be some crazy muthafuckahs here.

Sat, 11/30/2013 - 23:54 | 4202990 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Economist Paul Krugman points out, “The pay system on Wall Street lavishly rewards the appearance of profit, even if that appearance later turns out to have been an illusion.”


The ZH sheeple don't even know why they hate Krugman, ok I'll tell you why, its like Pavlov's dog, ... he salivates when a bell is rang.

Here on ZH when "Ron Paul" is uttered the dog's get a hard-on, and when "Krugman" is uttered the dog's go into dog pack attack, but why?

This is why... Because Krugman long ago told the truth about Wall Street ( ZH HEAVEN ), ...


Economist Paul Krugman points out, “The pay system on Wall Street lavishly rewards the appearance of profit, even if that appearance later turns out to have been an illusion.”

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:24 | 4203025 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

who's illusion? i mean "who doesn't love free money"? in other words the problem is with the Government program is it not when the "money turned out not to be there"? (according to Greenspan et al in 2008 "they had no idea." somebody knew though...because the policy went into full reverse.) that's all that deficit is is it not? a "failure to understand projections" from a place you really, really, really want to believe in? Wall Street...and Hollywood professionally i might add...only offer up what the viewer thinks they want. Being able to separate "your fact" from "their fiction" is why you have a team hopefully working on behalf of "what is sustainable"...or at least based upon what in fact is going on and hence "realizable." in the Age of Data don't think you're fooling anyone anymore...on the other hand your "failure to believe" can be a mistake as well. the fact that we can't "see the future" doesn't mean there isn't one. simply stating "you're going to die" doesn't work either. in other're going to have to live in this world.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:32 | 4203031 carlin401
carlin401's picture

The 'illusion' is the illusion of profit in USA corporations, and the illusion of Profit in Madoff's operation.

Krugman was simply pointing out that all profit made on Wall street is based on an illusion of profit based on 'cooked-books'

This of course has been going on before the FED was even created.


That USA capitalism is a rigged game, and ran by crooks, has well been this way since George Washington, america's 'Father Crook'.


Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:55 | 4203122 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Near as I can tell it was somewhere between Andrew Jackson and Abraham Lincoln when the United States of America was usurped by an agent of the Bauer Banksters.

It was a really good idea, USA,  but the fucking 'crown' won and put it in the bag in 1913.

My grandpa left in 1912.


Stack On

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 12:11 | 4203476 centerline
centerline's picture

A little earlier.  Memory failing me right now.  But right on though.  USA has been a vehicle for the wealthy to exploit the world for well over a hundred years.  A continuation of the city of London's financial domination.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:54 | 4203046 PubliusTacitus
PubliusTacitus's picture

I hate Krugman because he is a fraud, for various reasons, including bald-faced hypocrisy and piss-poor forecasting (for which he was fired).


Why do you foolishly believe him?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:22 | 4203072 carlin401
carlin401's picture

He's endearing like Michael Moore,

I just wish Freddie Krugman would make more movies :)

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:11 | 4203101 PubliusTacitus
PubliusTacitus's picture

Interesting proposition.


Now, why do you think he is credible, in any form?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 08:25 | 4203236 BigJim
BigJim's picture


Carlin  doesn't think, Carlin's a spewer.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 01:22 | 4203071 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Economist Paul Krugman points out, “The pay system on Wall Street lavishly rewards the appearance of profit, even if that appearance later turns out to have been an illusion.”

Kinda like a nobel prize in economics, huh?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:12 | 4203104 carlin401
carlin401's picture

Well not exactly, Nobel invented Dynamite, and its said that Nobel is responsible for more carnage and death and all
prior his time.

Even now Nobels invention "High Explosives" is still the worlds number one means to murder.

So you take the richest killer in all history and just a little he feels guilty and leaves a trust to the future...

I think a 'real honest' intellectual would reject a nobel prize,

Now in the case of OBAMA it was a class quid-pro-quo nobel prize for killing, prior to the act.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:04 | 4203005 Reaper
Reaper's picture

Does putting a suit on the Krugman monkey and hanging a Noble Prize winner sign around its neck enlighten that monkey? Does the NY Times have the power to anoint a monkey as our economic guru? Judge the Krugman monkey by his nonsense spewed, not the Nobel sign around his neck.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:47 | 4203041 PubliusTacitus
PubliusTacitus's picture

In order to win a Nobel, simian membership is now a prerequisite…

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 06:11 | 4203187 Dr. Bonzo
Dr. Bonzo's picture

I think you were downvoted for saying "monkey." I tried to upvote x100, but it wont let me.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 00:46 | 4203040 PubliusTacitus
PubliusTacitus's picture

Krugman is a very strange fraud, regularly contradicting himself about the Ponzi “safety net” and the total requirement to ignore the catastrophic explosion thereof.


He did some fine work on trade, once upon a time, and then devolved into the largest troll in the universe, devoid of economic knowledge.



Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:09 | 4203098 carlin401
carlin401's picture

well he can't exactly tell the 'truth' in the public,

here on MSM we talk about the truth, but even here most just don't get it, ...

like the notion that you can vote for a 'good guy' to fix the unfixable,...

krugman is quite clear, ... he tell the status-quo to do what they must to keep the bubble from 'popping', but try to minimize the pain on the poor.

krugman is well aware the USA is a ponzi, but he also knows that its the 500LB gorilla that can and will hold it
position in world dominance at any cost.

given that no other country on the face of the earth has the balls to stand up to USA, ... I don't see any change on the horizon.

CHINA is every bit as much tied into the AIPAC program to rob SE-ASIA with Goldman-Sacks as the CIA over-see's the heavy lifting ( aka killing fields in myanmar ),

Today the world is being looted by Russia, China, and the USA, and the spoils are not even in question.

Once there isn't enough loot things might get testy, but lets be honest, it will be a long fucking time before russia or china spends what the USA spends on military agression, besides these days both Russia & China have the muslim enemy to kill, so I can safely say as long as there are muslims to kill china, and russia, and USA will be too busy to kill each other.

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 02:15 | 4203108 PubliusTacitus
PubliusTacitus's picture

I see you’re gunning for the weekly “bizarre rant” slot of local cable programming.


Well played.


Now, since we’re funning, and you mistakenly believe “no other country has the balls to stand up to the USA,” what happens when the Chinese stand up to the USA, like they are starting to do now?


Is that part of the Krugmania world tour?

Sun, 12/01/2013 - 10:44 | 4203343 novictim
novictim's picture

Alright Publius, you go and tell us what YOU THINK would happen if the Chinese were to really challenge the USA...don't be a chicken now!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!