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Silver Is Having Its Worst Day In 10 Weeks

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Spot Silver is trading back to early July 2013 levels as it drop 4.1% - its biggest down-day since the SeptTaper debacles began. Gold is also being monkey-hammered; down 2.9% for the biggest drop in 2 months. Meanwhile, Bitcoin is on the rise...

 

 


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Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:04 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Gonna have to check my Morgans when I get home.  I bet they've shrunk since the last time I checked.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:05 | Link to Comment Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Is BTC an NSA invention designed to demonetize gold?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:11 | Link to Comment kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Nahhhhh its all honest money now sell your stack to me......I'm waitin'

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

Well, the good news is that “The Fed Now Owns One Third Of The Entire US Bond Market”.

Maybe they will try to trade that paper off for gold or silver at some time in the future.

What percent of a 1913 FRN is a 2013 FRN worth now?   

I forget.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Silver turning up now?

Live Silver Chart:  http://www.pmbull.com/silver-price/

Always wait for the headlines on ZH and other financial sites to say it is down, before buying.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:24 | Link to Comment outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Thanks gov for validating the need for cryptocurrencies.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:35 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

It could be worse, my closet not heated but the dogs still bark.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:07 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I think silver is likely a psy-ops put on by TPTB/CIA/NSA/FBI/TIA/GCHQ/MI5/MI6 + Mickey Mouse Club.  They obviously travelled back in time to the big bang and installed a back-door rootkit into all silver molecules and will destruct it once the time is right and they have enough of you suckered in!!

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:14 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I think fonestar is just our former and now-absent friend AnAnonymous, returned to ZH with a new angle (replacing his obsession with "US 'american' citizenism" with "bitcoin) and after an intensive (and apparently successful) crash-course in colloquial English.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Someone has to buy the Bitcon..... lol.

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Made me laugh.

Welcome to the US 'fonestar' bitcoinism world, it's a highly repetitious, exceedingly boring and monomaniacal kind of place, you'll see.

Alas, alas, three hundred thousand bitcoin harangues alas, just have to bear with it.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:38 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I've been invested in silver since $12 and Bitcoin since $16.  It is your "either/or" dualistic thinking that is exceedingly boring and simplistic.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Ah, ah, the duplicity of US 'fonestar' bitcoinism bitcoiners knows no boundings.  Same song as always, blobbing-up the conversational means and crapping on the ZH roadside.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment Dear Infinity
Dear Infinity's picture

If he did indeed get in at Silver at $12, hats off to him. He might be get a chance to double down on his original investment soon enough.

 

I can't remember a day in 2 years where I woke up and Silver was actually up once. Premiums are rising..is it time to buy?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:07 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

"If he did indeed get in at Silver at $12, hats off to him."

 

If I counted the coins I collected as a kid it would be $3/oz but I am being honest.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 21:55 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Blobbing up US bitcoinizenry infirms the aggrevate demand veracity fonestarbation of ground having depth tepidously.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:53 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

The throating of ideas of you are certainly that and something else, they give the up with much vigor to accusatorializations of fonestardational monolizing of the ZeroHedge speeching means.

When the bitcoinism is given an inch, it takes a mile, and then more of it.

Welcome to the ZeroHedge bitcoinism world, it's anmonotonous place, you'll see.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Alas, alas, three times alas, hammer pound on nail head this hitting has:

When the bitcoinism is given an inch, it takes a mile, and then more of it.

Ah, ah, and volatility pours the effect reversely, giving repeations, overlapse, and impulsion to bitcoinstipation phenomenum.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Yet you're still here...

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar shall not desert you my child.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:34 | Link to Comment Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

Invested? I thought it was just a currency.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:26 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Oh, get off the semantics.  Are you telling me you are holding silver, gold because you want it to go down in value?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:30 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

it's many things, but that doesn't make it popular...   somehow you silver bugs keep saying silver is many things but that doesn't make it popular either right?

bitcoin not being manipulated is what makes it popular

silver being JPMorgan's bitch makes it a sad clown

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:20 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

Couldn't agree more.  A nebulous e-currency is exactly what citizens are yearning for to escape a nebulous paper currency that is actually about 96% e-currency.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:26 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

You are right about that much.  The users here already trade their goods and labour for a virtual currency, it is called the dollar.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

The bitcoin phenomina is a glaring example of how truly fucking stupid 98% of the polulation is. Because being lazy is the new chic! Whatever method of payment that involves the least amout of independant thought and due dilligence will be the method of payment.

This is the NEW and IMPROVED ponzi that will save the central bankers asses! Don't kid yourself for 1 minuite that they don't own this. Its not free.    

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:26 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I actually thought when I started stacking silver that perhaps the silver community was bright, forwards thinking people.  Boy was I wrong!  Are you seriously trying to say that bankers can control the entire Bitcoin network?  Right when I thought I've heard all of the stupid arguments against Bitcoin, I am amazed yet again.  It's becoming painfully obvious to me why the stacker & prepper community has been maligned the way it has (because of the LCD).

HEY I KNOW.... WHAT IF DRAGONS ATE MY BITCOIN???

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:50 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

We get it fonestar:  you are a genius and most us are morons.  You are going to get rich beyond your wildest dreams, and all of us peasants will be bowing at feet because that's how the world works.  Revenge is going to taste so sweet & it's going to bring much meaning, true happiness, and depth to your life.  You are the new king of the 21st century.

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:56 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am not a genius but at least I can see how the rise of the crypto-currencies change how the game is played forever.  There are many reasons to be apprehensive about putting too much into these currencies (higly illiquid and slow trading out of) but I do not count EMPs, NSA spies, conspiracies, etc, etc, etc amongst them.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:12 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

Then I have an idea.  You've fully explained your position on bitcoin in these forums.  It's now time to move along.  Trust me, by reiterating your position over and over it does not promote the merits of bitcoin the least bit.  In fact, it does just the opposite.  What's your true overall intent, to be annoying, to educate, to promote bitcoin for the UK banks/US banks/FED/etc., to pump and ultimately dump your stake in bitcoin, or just be an all around asshole because you were somehow abused by your family or other kids when you were little?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I do not care if the posters on this forum ever understand Bitcoin.  I don't care if they buy Bitcoin or not and I have no plans to personally sell my Bitcoin for dollars (I had to sell some around $130 but that was not something I wanted to do).  Zerohedge posts some wonderful articles, I have my doubts as to whether they are or could be appreciated by this audience.  In any case, if these dummies think they are going to accuse me of being a shill and use this forum as a launch pad to spread FUD they are dead wrong.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:37 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

OK, so what's up your repetive posts & the disruption of everyone elses' discussion?  It appears to me you are doing your best to disrupt true exchange of thought by your diluting & polluting posts.  Are you against true exchange of thoughts? 

Do you not agree that free exchange of thoughts especially via the web is by far the most powerful weapon against the establishment?  Which side are you on?

 


Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes, I agree that the free flow of information is the most powerful weapon against the establishment.  But lets not forget that according to many on this forum (with their simpleton views on "intrinsic value", "tangible", etc) that the internet is "not real", was developed by "computer fags", etc, etc.  So is this the crew you are going to pass the torch of free flow of information to?  Good luck because I wouldn't have them running a lemonade stand!

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:30 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

why do you reply to everyone?  it makes you look like a certified jackass

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:35 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I do not manage to get to everyone but I try to respond to as many fans as possible.

Thank-you for choosing fonestar.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:37 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

When one person, such as fonestar, comes to dominate virtually EVERY thread, regardless of the topic, they make themselves an annoyance and a troll by default.

Fonestar, get a fucking life.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:37 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

No thanks.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:17 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

98% of folks iz tradin btc lol

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

98% of people haven't heard of Bitcoin.  Most of those who have do not trust it.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

dryam - you the tag team partner?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:03 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

I don't understand your point.

I was just pointing out the fact people are wanting to escape the mirage of Federal Reserve Notes with the mirage of bitcoins.  It's like seeking freedeom by fleeing one communist country by going to another communist country.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:14 | Link to Comment lickspitler
lickspitler's picture

something must be manipulating the metals. There is no way they could be in a bear market Diamond Jim Sincair told us-

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:55 | Link to Comment FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Stop downvoting fonestar. He be rite, dammit. Hes tolds me hisself.

He be a genis, I tells ya. All yu negative peeps gots ta stop givin him down arroz. He be ritetus, my main man!

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:02 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

fonestar is not getting down-voted all by himself.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:53 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Individuals do not win by being amongst the majority.  Wealth is transferred.  The amount of ignorant people opposed to Bitcoin makes me extremely bullish on its future.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:02 | Link to Comment spinone
spinone's picture

All I'm saying is that when Bitcoin evaporates, I won't say I told you so.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:19 | Link to Comment aminorex
aminorex's picture

by that time, he'll have a hard time hearing you over the sound of how rich he has become.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:17 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

If this is the worst day in 10 weeks, then extrapolating means this is 1 of 5 times a year where a great opportunity exists to buy.  No?

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:20 | Link to Comment AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Yes, and most don't recognize their own herding instinct, so are doing the opposite.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment shadowboxer
shadowboxer's picture

 ...plant Dimons head on a stick, displayed in front of the Comex with a brief note stapled to the forehead explaining the relevence in reaction to the naked shorting, as we wait for the next schill to boldly take his place i would suggest the buying opportunities shall swiftly diminish.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:19 | Link to Comment InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

I would say its just your ordinary pyramid scheme of digital age, but the way govt and MSM embrace and endorse bitcoin seems very suspicious indeed.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:26 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

If it were a serious threat to the status quo, it would be reported on like Fukushima or the Fed.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:26 | Link to Comment outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Like they embraced Napster? No, the truth is that they are trapped.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:22 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Embrace Bitcoin my ass you FUD-spewing troll.  Just google "bitcoin" and it is pretty apparent virtually everyone outside select user groups and devs hate Bitcoin.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:20 | Link to Comment Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

Therefore the UK Mint had been planning to push Bitcoins since summer with physical gold coins?

YOU DONT NEED GOLD. BITCOINS ARE AS GOOD AS GOLD.

YOU DONT NEED GOLD. BITCOINS ARE AS GOOD AS GOLD.

YOU DONT NEED GOLD. BITCOINS ARE AS GOOD AS GOLD.

YOU DONT NEED GOLD. BITCOINS ARE AS GOOD AS GOLD.

YOU DONT NEED GOLD. BITCOINS ARE AS GOOD AS GOLD.

 

The Power Elite wants a global currency total under their control and they don't even need to force the sheeple to use it. The sheeple will use Bitcoins as Globo freely and be glad that in the internet there exists no anonymity...

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

BTC is a lot more then digital form of money -- A LOT MORE.  This is catching on because it is a revolution in information synchronization.  Here is a good/ great post ( if I don't say so myself ) that explains what is real happening here.  View the attached video and read the Forbes Article if you want to learn the story behind the story.  Hey BTC  can still get killed by TPTB but it certainly has its toe in the door.  Let's make the life of bankers a bit more difficult.

 

http://www.larryobrien.net/banking-problems-for-bitcoin-companies/

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:02 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Thank-you for the link Bindar.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment agent default
agent default's picture

They don't like the Bitcoin, they love the concept. 

Enter GovCoin, jut as easy to use, legal tender for the US Government, but get this:

In order to transfer GovCoin, you need to enter your tax ID number or your social security number, or any other type of uniquely identifying information the IRS/NSA/CIA/FBI /Fed see fit.  Al ot more can be stored there.  Use your imagination here, anything could be collected.    This information is cryptographically stored on the coin it self along with all information of previous owners.   So when the  coin ends up back to the Fed, they have a complete picture of the path of the coin.  Truly scary.  They don't need to keep track of your transactions any more.  The currency itself does it for them.  In a fully decentralized manner.  Of course if they manage to get GovCoin to replace cash you can also get negative interest rates, instant coin/wallet cancellation, the possibilities are truly endless.  Orwell would weep over this.

This is what the future holds if things like Bitcoin become mainstream and I think this is the real reason most people are skeptical about Bitcoin and the rest of the digital currencies.  They may not be able to articulate their suspicion,  but they feel there is something wrong with this down the line.

But if Bitcoin becomes sort of mainstream and people get used to the concept, they will not object to  GovCoin which is much more convenient to use, and backed by the Fed and the US Government, and is legal tender as opposed to the rest of the digital currencies that will be declared counterfeit/money laundering vehicles/bootleg you name it.

 

 

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:29 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

i f'kg want some coinage up the ars s/, chip me,  pleazzze don't f me with a coin...

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Enter GovCoin, jut as easy to use, legal tender for the US Government, but get this:

Yup, that's about the size of it... I'd love to know who downvoted you.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:29 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

No, BTC is a cyberpunk invention designed to bypass the NSA (and many other governments and agencies.)

Being a significant holder of shiny stuff, I wish those markets were as unhindered as bitcoin is. Sadly, it's not the case. Until the day comes where the manipulators die in a fire, I think expanding your portfolio (and buying on dips) is about all you can do.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:45 | Link to Comment InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

designed to bypass the NSA

Let me think, how could i bypass NSA... hmm... oh, i got it, lets make digital "currency" that can be used and transacted 100% only online with logs of every transaction builtin, thats how!! :) brilliant!!

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:08 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

The more I read everyone's comments, the more I think it might be the right time to trade in my one BTC, which I bought for $40, for some shiny silver.

But then I wonder:  Would I be more upset if I held onto this BTC and it went back down to $10, or if I used my BTC to buy silver and then BTC went up to $20,000?  

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I think at some point you should sell that BTC and take the family somewhere and have some fun. 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:13 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Forever the pragmatist, fonz.  I like it.  Good idea.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:13 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Decisions, decisions.  Remember the people who sold at "the all time high" of $266?  Yeah, they're kicking themselves.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

you are way too emotionally invested in this fonsestar. It's unhealthy.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:45 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

I agree, see my note below. It's dangerous to over-commit to any financial instrument, even our precious, be it shiny or digital.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:51 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am not emotionally invested in Bitcoin.  I am extremely excited to be living during the advent of the biggest development in monetary history in the past five-hundred years, the rise of the crypto-currencies.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

I just recommend, as I think is important with any topic, that one looks for all of the ways that he may be wrong instead of looking to be right.  Whenever I have an idea I first think about all of the reasons why it may just plain suck.  

I've read about the benefits of Bitcoin ad nauseum and I agree that it is revolutionary.  Just do yourself a favor and make sure you don't have blinders on.

</unsolicted advice>

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:25 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Dude seriously lay off the crack. I do not dislike bitcoin, I just don't see why bitcoin is worth .01 or 1000. I see no value in it at all. Does that make me a bitcoin hater? No. I don't down arrow some of your bullshit comments like the one above. I actually decided to even...gasp read more about it since after all how can I comment/invest in something I know nothing about. 

What I can say is that;

a) Nothing goes up or down in a straight line

b) What ever bitcoins value is? I don't fucking know

c) Anytime someone is saying the sky is the limit on xyz they are selling something.

 

Stop sounding so fucking desperate. You do yourself a diservice. And honestly I am kicking myself for not selling my silver for $50 an ounce when apmex was also offering $5 dollars on top of that to buy AE's. Your comments are those of people that are in love with what they have and are too stupid to realize that you should always, always take a profit. If you are up 1000x's of percent you bet your fucking ass it is time. I remember selling my gold because my wife and I decided we needed a few things and I sold it for 1600 before it hit its all time high. In that time frame I don't feel bad about the decision at all. Money is not an investment, it is a purchasing vehicle. They only way to lose is to never spend, or believe that you have to hang on forever to get your riches. Just doens't work that way.

Best of luck to you.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment aminorex
aminorex's picture

Allow me to help.  The value of a monetary good is described by the quantity theory of money, PQ=MV.  For bitcoin, V is about 6 and 15mn is a good estimator of M for the next few years.  The value in USD2013 is computed as PQ/MV=x.  Thus, for example, if bitcoin will eventually displace Moneygram and Western Union's 865 bn annual remittances, and no other use is made of bitcoin, then at that time, if V is constant, one bitcoin will be worth $865bn/90mn, or about 9000 USD2013.  Personally I can think of many other uses of bitcoin which are beneficial to multiple parties in a transaction, but 9k is a good minimum value.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

"if bitcoin will eventually displace Moneygram and Western Union's 865 bn annual remittances".  

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:55 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Determining the value of anything is not as simple as using a formula. Especially when you are talking about a currency that has little acceptance among private parties and no acceptance among sovereign nations. 

To use a formula to try and derive an equitable price is fucking moronic.

I was not speaking of price anyway but value. Which based on your reply I would gather that you know not the difference. 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 23:37 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

it's new dude...  so if it was accepted by governments right out of the gate you would feel good about it??  sure as shit right?

 

how about you just hate it blindly without trying to justify your actions as anything except wacko fear?

 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 02:02 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

I love how not a single one of you idiots can tell me why it is worth something. I am not attacking bitcoin, rather the pumpers on here gloating trying to goad people into as far as I can see what looks like the worlds largest pump and dump in history. I am still open to someone explaining its merits, hell I could do a better job explaining that than fonestar. 

But to sit here and deny the lack of basic functions a medium of exchange needs and then tell me I am hating because of ignorance is foolish.

Here are some of the criteria that I feel bitcoin accomplishes as a unit of account, and medium of exchange.

1) divisible unit of account

2) very liquid medium of exchange

That's it. You can't claim that it is finite because even if you can't "mine" more bitcoins, you can create different currencies.

It also is not a store of wealth. Gold and silver are because of their innate properties such as they are ductile, immutable, and infinitely divisible. 

 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 02:23 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Why bother with people like you?  If you can't think of 1001 uses for Bitcoin (I guess some people can't think like a criminal) I can't help you.  BTW, good luck breaking your Maples, Krugerands, what have you down to eight decimal places.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 04:07 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Why bother... lol. You haven't nor could adress a single concern of someone even thinking of buying bitcoin because you're fucking clueless. 

I like the idea of bitcoin, I really do. It is a currency that is freely traded which is fucking awsome because of the complete opposite dynamic imposed by government currencies as they are forced into use. I do not see using bitcoin to use in transactions as a form of tax dodging either because honestly the government has no right to get in between myself and a second party in a business exchange any more than the government has the right to get between my spouse and I in bed. But none of that changes the fact their are at least two major flaws that I can see, and they are;

1) it is not a store of value and as such its value is based solely on other peoples willingness to use it as a system of barter, and since most people, if not all, have to pay some kind of tax at some point in their lives most people will simply deal with the currency subjected to themselves. So as I said, I see the value in what it could do but I don't see how it gets there. Am I afraid of using bitcoin? No, but I am afraid to buy it because I have no way of valuing it, and to the fucking moon as a common selling point  does not convey confidence about its future for a currency that has been in existance for less than a decade. 

2) other competing currency.  How the fuck can you turn a blind eye to the fact that their is at least a dozen or so just like bitcoin and all of them are different prices? Not to mention more could be made and their is virtually no difference between them? It is the most glaring problem that should smack you in the face. Why is bitcoin around 1000 dollars and litecoin around 30? All the currencies are just going to cannibalize each other and create chaos/confusion for vendors.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:44 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

I remember (not long ago) I was downright giddy with my investments (mostly PMs). I'd hit a couple big financial milestone numbers. All was good -- I was looking an an average annual return on my portfolio of nearly 20% over the past 15 years.

I've made a mental note that any time I have that feeling again, to sell like mad, to get out of whatever I love, and to get into whatever I hate.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

I think for the most part you are right, I would just sell a large position rather than all, in increments of course.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment aminorex
aminorex's picture

20k isn't even ambitious

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 02:25 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I agree absolutely.  There is no way I would sell one single Bitcoin for a measly $20,000 US Dollars.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 04:12 | Link to Comment Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

Do you even listen to youself? People like you will be the death of bitcoin. You are such a fucking douchebag. 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

After 12 years of buying Silver, i took out 200 ozs today to get some Bitcoin.  Started looking to buy at $40, got the ex in at $100, I am tiring of seeing Silver get hammered, and will still hold lots of it but when bitcoin hits 2, 3 and 4k, I could not handle getting some.  Should have listened to Max K and just bought way earlier.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:57 | Link to Comment InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

geez.... its BUY LOW SELL HIGH, repeat after me!!!  Its not BUY HIGH SELL LOW! Its so obvious! You should sell bitcoin and buy silver, not the other way around, jesus, is the world going totally crazy???

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin IS low!!

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:06 | Link to Comment InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

step 1, go see optometrist and order yourself new glasses, your old ones are no good

step 2, look at the btc chart

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

And silver is low too.  So buy both.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

What percentage of FX trading does Bitcoin compose?  So Bitcoin is a global currency in a bubble?  Really?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:54 | Link to Comment Saro
Saro's picture

Looking at the BTC chart is only useful after you have (subjectively) decided for yourself what a bitcoin should be valued at.

If you expect the value of a bitcoin to be $10,000 by this time next year, then it's low.  If you expect it to be $10, then it's too high.  I expect Fonestar is the former, and you are the latter.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:00 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm just looking at BTC for what it is (or is supposed to be) a currency.  If it's a global currency it has seen nothing in terms of volume.  People here talk about it like it's a Facebook or Apple stock or something.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:47 | Link to Comment silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

BTC has been taken over by CIA and is beign used to track illicit activity. It is a tool. Enjoy your gain while you still can, once the rats have realized they're being watched the party is over.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

You don't have to go totally crazy to go totally broke.  lmao.  Only a troll would consider selling silver today and buying Bigcon when taking said action is willfully incurring a loss. Doing nothing is more profitable.

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:48 | Link to Comment Anasteus
Anasteus's picture

You're right, inspector. PMs are an excellent buy for some portion of bitcoins these days. Perhaps the best investment at the moment.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:23 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

You should sell bitcoin and buy silver, not the other way around.

It boils down to everyone's unique situation.  Since I paid $40 for my BTC I can buy 55oz of silver for the equivalent of 72 cents/oz.  Not bad.  I wouldn't be getting into BTC right now for $1,100 each, though.  

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:31 | Link to Comment aminorex
aminorex's picture

I will buy bitcoin as long as it is trading below my estimate of its future fundamental value, discounted by a riskless rate and the uncertainty of my future value estimate.  I.e. under 24k, I continue to accumulate.  This strategy has increased my net worth by more than 600% in the past month.  I operate a bitcoin diversified fund which has yielded 524% since inception in November.  I hope to break 1k BTC in q1, and 10k in q4 2014, by which time 1 btc should be trading between 3k and 5k USD.  I anticipate winding the fund down during 2016, and closing it in q2 2017, when the fundamental value is reached, although I may short bitcoin if it overshoots a great deal.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Best of luck to you.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:36 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Your certainty of how the future will unfold is admirable.

Too bad the rest of us don't see how you've arrived there.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 21:31 | Link to Comment El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

How many tulips is that?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

Or you could buy some BTC/LTC.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:54 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Gold/silver is a retirement/emergency fund. I pay no mind to the daily/weekly/monthly fluctuations. Just accumulate a little more every month like a savings account.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

Makes perfect sense to me with the 'price' of silver being well below the cost of production.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:12 | Link to Comment Debugas
Debugas's picture

and what is its cost of production ?

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

$5 to dig out of the ground.  I recommend your back yard.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:25 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

That's where I get most of mine.  Of course the kids find it on the way home from school, the dog digs it up from god knows where, honestly I can't give it away, I'm running out of room to store it all, and the neighbors are up to their necks in it as well, so they don't want any.  I understand the bullion banks' anxiousness to get rid of it at any price, its a real pain in the ass to store.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:26 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Yep, just like all those mountains of scrap gold just littering the landscape that Jon Nadler used to warn us about.  Hell, I ran into three of them just on my way to work this morning!

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:27 | Link to Comment SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

TOP 12 PRIMARY SILVER MINERS ESTIMATED ADJUSTED INCOME COST PER OUNCE OF SILVER = $21.50

This is according to my top 12 primary silver miners.  This is down from about $24.50 in the previous quarter.  The primary silver miners are cutting everything close to the BONE to get their costs down.  However, this will have serious implications going forward for future mine production growth as CAPEX & EXPLORATION BUDGETS are being gutted.

Of course this does not include base metal mining as it is impossible to get a cost structure from that group.

I still believe the primary silver miners will be some of the best investments in the future when the FIAT DOLLAR PHAT LADY FINALLY SINGS and we get the Grand revaluation via the BRICS.

The world will ride the INSANE PAPER TRADING TREND UNTIL THE END.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

They all deserve to go out of business for selling under production cost at a price established by a crooked market for a paper facsimile that's free to produce.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:32 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Damn right Al. 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

Al Huxley...  I agree, however this has been the game for quite some time.  HECLA & COEUR Mining have sold their silver below break-even and lost money in different years in the 1990's-2000's and now today.

The world has been investing in one Bubble & Ponzi Scheme after another.  Fortunately, we are in the last stages of the Greatest Ponzi-Bubble ever. 

People will be forced to go back to the old fashion method of investing.... and that is in physical assets such as gold and silver.  Financialization of assets will become a four letter word in the future...TURD.

But... today you wouldn't know it by the way the markets are trading.

That's because.... GOD HATH A SENSE OF HUMOR.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:51 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Then they're run by assholes who are probably compensated behind the scenes by the shitbag elite they serve, to the detriment of their shareholders, and so they should just move into the halls of the investment bank headquarters where they can formalize their role as courtiers or court jesters to the banking royalty that's always owned them anyway.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:53 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I'm done thinking they will be good investments. There is absolutely no doubt they are just an appendage of the cartel.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I agree.  I liked the old days better when they just ran traditional pump-and-dump schemes.  They've always all been liars and thieves, just used to be more predictable liars and thieves.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 21:24 | Link to Comment BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Bre-X - those were the days!

Paper shares are still paper. Goin' to zero like all the rest of the paper. Dilution / Inflation - no difference. Just more paper. Or just electronic bits - not even paper.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:04 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

In a world run by corporations the refuse to enforce any real consequences for bad behavior, especially at the top, you have just described every single major corporation today.

Roll the fucking guillotines, nothing changes otherwise.

Do this, or quit bitching, pick one.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 19:46 | Link to Comment acetinker
acetinker's picture

Isn't Ag primarily a by-product of Cu mining?  Maybe the miners are taking a loss on Ag and substantial profit on Cu?  Just asking.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:29 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Thanks Steve.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:30 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I don't understand why it is not a better/evil plan to let the miners go bankrupt. Have GS/JPM etc throw them a lifeline in bankruptcy to keep them operational and have the banks get the shiny. Equity holders get wiped out. 

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:38 | Link to Comment FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

How do we know that this is not the plan? Looks like its working to me.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:46 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Well leave it to me to buy this shit and then figure out the plan against me causing me to lose all my damn money....

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:03 | Link to Comment rqb1
rqb1's picture

I feel your pain. 

 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:29 | Link to Comment CHX
CHX's picture

Depends on how low they can smash the paper price down. It seems Comex might have soon a problem with registered inventory not enough to for upcoming deliveries in Dec. Some miners still are +/- profitable at these levels (clearly their profits and thus valuations got monkey hammered) so a complete bankster take-over of the industry is unlikely IMO. It is my believe that at this point, that some sort of disruption in the physical market will turn the tide for the metals, and then things turn fast and violently; the ordinary short will not have time to cover in time (they'll race the HFT algos to the door - good luck with that ! ). But before that happens, the bulls will likely have to suffer / hang in there some longer. The lower it goes, the closer the turnaround!

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 It seems Comex might have soon a problem with registered inventory not enough to for upcoming deliveries in Dec.

I've been hearing this shit for YEARS. Literally.

Maybe it'll come true one day... I fucking hope so, I doubt I'll live forever. Id prefer to see my gains than lie on my deathbed wondering whether it'll be my great-great-great grandchildren who do... asumming they haven't sold and bought into the DOW at 130,000 as soon as they inherit my stack.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

There was a video released recently by a silverbug named brotherjohnf ( whom some here probably know ) and he posited an interesting conspiracy theory.

 

The bulk of silver comes as a by product as we all know to base metal mining. Brotherjohn noted that many of these metals have seen an absolute explosion in their above ground warehouse stock with in most cases only a moderate drop in price. I.E. they seem to be being mined while there is no demand for them. The question becomes.. is keeping a supply of silver a main reason of this?

 

Who can say. But, all I can say is anyone who thinks this market isn't distorted, perverted, retarded, and discombobulated has been given leave of their sanity. It all meshes nicely with the mirage, folded into a lie wrapped in a fable that is the entire market / system. What will be the catalyst for it to finally crash? No idea, but I can't wait.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment CHX
CHX's picture

could be, but not necessarily. what abou the time after the SHTF reset (currency devaluation) ? oil and mining base metals will be very expensive, so having a good stock in advance might be a good thing ? or, if commodities collaps too much, then it'd be clear that the real economy is toast, so it's trying to not to deflate the commodities in a crash-style ? could be all of that, or none, as all this is just quesswork at best.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Seems to me that the 'right' thing to do, is to Front-Run the markets with a coming CONSOLIDATION of the PM mines.

Just don't blow the whole wad on this speculative play.  Allocate/gamble only what you can afford to 'expose' to risk or loss in the time-frame that matters to YOU.  This is 'Investment 101' that 95% of people keep forgetting, because they get too lathered up by commission & bonus-seeking agents & shills, who try to get grannies and poor Desperados to fork over way too much.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:09 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

You find the little ones, that have real deposits but are out of money and trading 90% off their highs at $5 - $10/oz equivalent, buy a few shares and wait for the takeover at '2x 50dma' (eg 80% off highs, and maybe $20/oz equivalent tops).  Or just buy SPY calls, or lottery tickets - the odds are a lot better.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

Excellent, discounts for holiday shopping.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:35 | Link to Comment Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

as has been noted, cyber monday sale.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:09 | Link to Comment Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

No shrinkage!

Just added to my stack. It is on sale. 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:31 | Link to Comment XAU XAG
XAU XAG's picture

10 year gold support line bottom 1100

20 year gold support line bottom 1050

40 year gold support line bottom 800 and 1000 depending on how you draw it.

 

Unless thease are broken we are still in a BULL market with a bear correction.

 

The pain will stop but as the saying says "No Pain No Gain"

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1, but what about silver?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment XAU XAG
XAU XAG's picture

@Ghordius

 

Take the gold prices I stated and devide by 70 and 35 and that is the range silver can be in against those prices.

 

It can go outside the range but I am going by last GSR Top and Bottom Roughly

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:04 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I hope it gets under $10 again.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

You are not going to be able to buy at $10. They will take it off you for $10, but they will not sell it at that price. All this self-righteous bull about bitcoin being evil speculation, when you planning to pump and dump.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:07 | Link to Comment quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Not trying to sound cheeky or like a smart ass, but I heard many say the same thing at $20, and even a few at $30. Hells bells, they can bring the bitch down to $5 if they prefer, and I would bet we see some serious capitulation near those levels.

That said, I doubt we get to that level, but I have been wrong since $40 lol.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I'd just like to buy at 10 (or 5, or less, even better) because at that price you can get some really serious oz for your money. 

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:07 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I don't think I've made more than one or two passing comments about bitcoin.  I know nothing about it, I can't tell whether it's a good buy or not.  I've referenced the violent price swings, but by and large I haven't participated in the bitcoin 'discussion'.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Hey Al I called my dealer today. $24 for ASE's. Amazing eh? The market barfing up silver everywhere and my guy has the audacity to expect 20% plus premium...

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:49 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

I notice the same thing - premiums don't fall at the same rate the Comex price does.  It pisses me off, because I'd like to buy at 20, but 23 or 24?  Not so much.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:46 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

I doubt these guys hedge... so they're obliged to clear their inventory at a cost + profit basis on the actual price.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment Blano
Blano's picture

I've encountered the same thing.  At some point they just quit dropping the price no matter how low spot goes.  It's the same here (Dallas suburb).

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 21:40 | Link to Comment DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Fonz:
It's not just your guy at your LCS, both APMEX and my normal "supplier" Gainesville Coins have been in the $24 range all day long. Another ZH poster turned me onto this link to check silver coin prices by dealer as it changes based upon the spot price of silver as it trades.. https://comparesilverprices.com.

No, I'm not spamming anything but I find the link helpful as it displays the premium over spot each dealer is charging for various silver items.

I started to notice about two weeks ago that a couple of dealers, APMEX, Gainseville,Provident, and a few others were not dropping their retails as the spot prices went down and were taking more margin, They may be on the wrong side of a "trade" or not 100% hedged themselves for the latest price drop. There does not appear to be supply issues as other dealers such as Liberty and Kitco have not been taking as much margin and you can order away without a delay in shipments as was the case back in the summer, I wonder if my kids would like a new shovel for Christmas so they can help Dad dig a few more holes to put his shiny coins into ? It will all be theirs someday anyway....

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 18:57 | Link to Comment The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Wasn't really directed at you but the kind of ppl who cry that every fall in PM price is good while telling us 'We told you so.' when alternative currencies go down.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:05 | Link to Comment JimRogers
JimRogers's picture

Does ZH have the Bitcoin monitor upside down?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

You make funny joke, no?

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:05 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

day of the Jackal...

When the matrix tells the heretic what is in store for its kind.

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment jubber
jubber's picture

but I thought India just bought 5000 tons???

Mon, 12/02/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Ha ha, they'll be kicking themselves when it goes bankrupt.

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