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Silver Slumps To $19 As Precious Metal Smackdown Continues

Tyler Durden's picture


The overnight session was relatively quiet as precious metals trod water while equity markets tumbled. However, as the US equity cash session looms, silver and gold are coming under renewed selling pressure (and the USD bid) in a seeming effort to provide some rotational bid to stocks into the open (just like yesterday). This is the lowest for Gold ($1218) and Silver ($19.01) since July.


The Asia close, Europe open and US open appear opportune times to dump all your precious metals...


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Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:32 | 4209807 Mark Carney
Mark Carney's picture

Boxing Day Sale!!!!!!



Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:37 | 4209818 Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

As in monster boxing? lol

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:06 | 4209931 Born Patriot
Born Patriot's picture

The only problem I have with gold and silver enthusiasts is that many of them view these metals as a replacement for our national currency. I've got no problem with gold as an investment, just don't try to undermine our national currency.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:09 | 4209947 Max Damage
Max Damage's picture

Ben and Obuma have already done that one

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:19 | 4209990 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Silver is doing what BTC is doing (just behind the scenes), regardless of what they say the price is.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:20 | 4210003 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Did you fall and hit your head?! 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:50 | 4210111 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Visiting bullion dealer a few minutes ago, a mine owner walked in and paid cash for a hundred thousan ounces of Silver, said it was cheaper than mining it...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:01 | 4210182 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

The current bounce in price is a little more "V-like."

Live Spot Silver Chart:

And Gold is actually green now:

Live Spot Gold Chart:

This was to be expected because yesterday I chickened out of buying the dip for a change.


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:22 | 4210307 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

You've probably got at least until the end of December to buy the dip, and I'd bet the prices are going to get better before they start rising.  There's NO incentive for the manipulators running this market to let it rise at this point.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:24 | 4210590 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Except to buy low and sell high when it peaks next time...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:10 | 4210530 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Silver could go to $5 or $10.  They control the exchanges, they contol the dollar, they control the markets, they control miners, they control the media.  They have proven themselves to be suicidal.

I guess that only matters if you care about them and care about their dollars.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:25 | 4210589 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

You're kidding yourself if you think they can't kill bitcoin in a nanosecond.  Them moment it poses any real challenge it's history.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:30 | 4210599 fonestar
fonestar's picture

That's a pretty bold statement, one that is easy to make (for someone who doesn't know what they are talking about).

It's not just the Bitcoin but I wonder if some of you really understand why you are buying silver either?  Sounds like most of you are very much under the cartel's dollar spell.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:36 | 4210637 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I disagree, and I have to give greatbeard a +1

BitCoin does need the internet, to a certain degree. and devices. and, as all currencies, trust

plenty of ways to curtail, restrict and undermine - if wished

nevertheless I don't think it will be touched, and I still suspect that the NSA is completely innocent, this time. meanwhile I would not wonder at all if a lot of BitCoins would not be in the hands of secret services worldwide. If I was a head spook, I'd love a cryptocurrency, it opens a huge pontential for black funding

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:46 | 4210661 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If I were the agencies I would be trying to get keys from existing users (like DPR) rather than driving up prices in the open markets.  At the end of the day the agencies are just another node on the network, or as someone recently put it...

"On the blockchain nobody knows you're a fridge".

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:03 | 4210745 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Bit coin should be renamed moron coin. How can a fucking electron be worth $10,000?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:08 | 4210764 fonestar
fonestar's picture

There is no use trying to explain systems to simpletons. 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:33 | 4210858 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How can a shiny rock be worth $1230?

Everything is worth what its purchaser will pay for it.  Bitcoins are in demand (aside from any mania) because they allow users to bypass currency controls.  That is their number one use, and the Chinese are using it for that reason now.  THAT is likely the reason the price has exploded.  I don't know anyone aside from myself and few people online who have bought even a fraction of a bitcoin.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:42 | 4210659 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> (for someone who doesn't know what they are talking about).

The question is which one of us? You presume to know the answer.  A little self doubt would be the prudent thing, but I'll let you boldly blaze your trail of omnipotent investing knowledge. 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:48 | 4210679 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I feel pretty confident there is little they can do about Bitcoin without destroying the entire internet as we know it.  Not to mention managing the unintended consequences of such a foolhardy attempt.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:00 | 4210726 riskprice
riskprice's picture

Oh, they'd never outlaw accepting it as payment ......oh, wait.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:09 | 4210769 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Only a complete moron would accept an overvalued electron for payment when it could lose all of its "perceived" value in a microsecond

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 02:58 | 4212941 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

News Just In: Gov't bans electrons.  This coming on the heels of Gov't ban on numbers last week.  What is with it with these evil intangibles that have our annointed leaders in such a fuss?  Our readers want to know!

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:10 | 4210773 fonestar
fonestar's picture

At best they (barely) control geographic regions as defines by solid and dotted lines on a map.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:31 | 4210855 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

that statement righ there shows how truly naieve you are Pftonestar. Your are a lackey for the digital ponzi. Part of a botnet. A tool of your digital masters. Programed to the T. Priceless. 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:33 | 4210617 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

If they can kill Bitcoin in a nanosecond why can't they kill bitorrent? Because they can't.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:11 | 4210775 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

You don't think so? They can do anything they want.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:36 | 4210869 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why don't you start a church to worship your savior the government, since you seem to think it is a God.

Why do ANYTHING they don't want you to do?  They are Gods, and will surely smite you for your disobedience.


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 20:05 | 4212038 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

Dude, they can't even build a website that works! 


For those of us outside of the USA (and not in a place the USA is bombing) I'd say our chances of being able to outwit these retards is pretty good.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:49 | 4210687 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

"You're kidding yourself if you think they can't kill bitcoin in a nanosecond.  Them moment it poses any real challenge it's history."


What if "they" are the ones running the bitcoin game?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:55 | 4210704 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

What, you think "they" running it precludes "they" from destroying it?  Free clue, it doesn't.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:56 | 4210711 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I won't even take that as a serious question.  Yes, it is perfectly plausible that eveyone trading virtual currencies on the largest exchanges around the globe, all of the client downloads, all of the dev teams are by people in the employ of intelligence agencies.  Perfectly valid concerns.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:29 | 4210608 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

You are correct fonestar.  This one is for all they marbles and they intend to burn the theater down with everybody inside.  Physical gold, physical silver, and offline crypto wallets.  The only investments worth buying right now.

The Bitcoin Channel

Silver For The People

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:58 | 4210398 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Are these the same guys who fermented a silver bullion panic last spring? Cause I got a few Monster Boxes of silver to sell him at those hyped-up prices, when "the sky was falling".

I also recall getting caught up in TEOTWAWKI, one year ago, when we all paid an arm and a leg for the manufactured crisis for Guns & Ammo. Have you fuckers looked at the bargain prices lately?

What's that saying again... "There's a sucker born every minute."

Accept that "In a world where EVERYTHING of economic or political value can and usually IS being manipulated, so too the Bear/Doomsday markets and people are being manipulated."

// Unless you believe that you're so (fuckin') "special", that opportunists and snake-oil salesmen respect you and your values too much to 'manipulate' you out of your cash. // sarc

Hedge accordingly. In the future, I suggest you buy whatever you value when there is no "crisis", so you can get better selection and prices, and sleep better when others are freaking out.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:28 | 4210601 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

WTF are you yapping about? You sound like a whiny little bitch to me.

Man up, figure it out and quit blaming others for your own actions.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:04 | 4210751 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Assuming that you can actually think (IQ > 100), you may want to re-read what I wrote, before you get all emotional/aggressive in your response. 

All my statements were factually and objectively correct.  My subjective remarks only serve as examples and reminders of what happens when we ignore basic rules of investment, and allow ourselves to "run with the crowd".  Even the "ZH crowd" is not immune to 'manipulation' -- given the double-digit losses in Au+Ag, versus the double-digit gains in stocks (2012-2013).  I don't like it one bit more than you do, but it's the frikkin TRUTH!  And surely you, your friends and the Tylers can handle the truth, right?  / Or are we now peddling 'economic religion' on ZH? /sarc

ALL I'm advocating (using my own experience as but one example out of millions out there), is (a) that none of us are immune to being hood-winked or manipulated --and clearly we HAVE been -- and (b) the best/only way to prevent that in the future is to stick steadfast to fundamental and time-proven principles of Diversification-as-risk-mitigation.

Surely even you 'get' that?  Sheesh!

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 15:25 | 4211092 Banjo
Banjo's picture

I have no sympathy for people that go all in. My hoped for investment return is 0% over 20+ years.


I'm still accumulating a long term postion in Gold and Silver, also plan on starting to get some exposure to cryptos. Definately not all in and unlikely to pick up any Bit coins at all seems like alot of good alternative currencies out there.


I am also mindful the government can jack up property taxes, steal bank account money, confiscate gold, meddle in crypto. So my defense against this is to try and live and enjoy each day as much as possible. Thats something they can't take from you.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:45 | 4210911 Chump
Chump's picture

I dunno man, reading this post (and a couple others of yours in a similar vein) just makes you seem bitter over a perceived hoodwinking.

You still have the silver, yes?  Why did you buy it?  As a trade?  Dumb dumb dumb.

You still have the ammo, yes?  Same as above, did you buy it as a trade?  Are you aware that the last remaining lead smelter in the U.S. is closing shop thanks to the EPA?  Obama did promise that he was working on gun control behind the scenes, and here he is, actually true to his word for once.

Now all smelted lead will be imported, obviously raising ammunition prices and probably bringing the Arms Trade Treaty into the picture.

Regardless, you're ranting into the mirror.  You should be considering your long-term goals and what you think the socioeconomic and political climate will look like over the timeline you're considering.  Instead you seem to actually be complaining that you made panic-driven decisions based on the fear-mongering of others, and that's nearly always a recipe for disaster.

But again, you still have the guns and ammo and silver, right?  If so, take heart, you're way, way ahead.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 23:23 | 4212603 Hayabusa
Hayabusa's picture

I have to assume this story is rhetorical.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:09 | 4210228 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Did you fall and hit your head?!"


How is that fiat mind control working out for ya?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:48 | 4210103 Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

Don't forget about the shipping!

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:13 | 4209971 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

As an investment, PM's suck!

As an eternal store of value, they are peerless!

Just remember, we all will return to the dust we came from, gold will be here long after that occurs.


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:26 | 4210027 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I stopped "investing" a long time ago.  People who can't see the writing on the wall call PM's an "investment", because that is the current way banksters have defined them with their ETF pumping machines.  The average persons phychology and definition of real money is terribly altered, which is why the US dollar is thought of as hard money.

It's a paper derivative of the government.  If you have confidence in Osama's government, stack dollars.

But be assured collapse is coming.  Choose which side of the boat you want to be on when it comes (dollar denominated vs hard assets).

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:07 | 4210520 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Before we all OD on Doomsday Kool-Aid or pull a Jonestown, it might be more useful to replace the word "Crash" for "Reset".

A Crash suggests little control by our Oligarchs. In a Reset, they control the Horizontal, they control the Vertical. So to speak. And NONE of you, not even the Tylers, know what TPTB have actually in store for us in terms of "The future of Money".

Oh, we might all have some clever ideas, but remember that "The Devil is in the detail".

Speculate, spout or hedge accordingly: DIVERSIFY, or 'die'.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:45 | 4210672 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

"And NONE of you, not even the Tylers, know what TPTB have actually in store for us in terms of "The future of Money"."

That's precisely WHY we're buying precious metals.  Silver <$20/oz is what's known as a "bargain price".  The last time I bought bulk-bullion silver it was ~$14/oz.  I'd say it's time to load-up again.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:10 | 4209953 Jaspergers
Jaspergers's picture

It's actually the other way around. This "national currency" is a crappy replacement for gold and silver. As a patriot you should know this. 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:13 | 4209969 Born Patriot
Born Patriot's picture

This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Our national currency is issued by our Federal Reserve bank - what does gold have to do with our currency?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:19 | 4209989 Max Damage
Max Damage's picture

A currency must be backed by assets. Obuma has continued the good work and bankrupted you, and Ben has increaced the toilet paper in circulation which then requires more assets to back it. Gold is a world recognised asset that can be used to back the toilet paper. Without asset backing the currency is utterly worthless

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:53 | 4210697 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Faith?   lol

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:55 | 4210703 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Oh, and "Promise" like promise to pay and hope and change...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:22 | 4210004 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> is issued by our Federal Reserve

Sir, let me enlighten you to the obvious that seem to escape you, it is not our Federal Reserve, it is their Federal Reserve.  The owners of the Federal Reserve, private bankers, are doing what is in their short term best interest.  Bugs, god love them, are doing what they see as being in their own long term best interest.  It is a pitched battle for sure, with the bugs currently getting it in the ass with the ugly end of the stick, but it is a battle long from over.  I seem to remember some Viet folks getting it shoved up their ass with an exceedingly hot poker for a number of years, yet the end result would belie what one would have derived from battle field reports.  Chose your side carefully.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:22 | 4210012 Jaspergers
Jaspergers's picture

From your first comment I wasn't sure if you were trolling or forgot the "/sarc". Now I'm pretty sure I'm wasting my time on you.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:25 | 4210024 SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture

"Our National Currency is issued by our Federal Reserve Bank"

Now.... that's a good one.  It's isn't "OUR" Federal Reserve Bank.  It belongs to a group of international Bankers.  Funny how most Americans don't understand that one.

The further the Dow goes up and Gold-Silver go down.... the bigger the opposite reaction once the insanity ends.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:51 | 4210121 aleph0
aleph0's picture



There's one "Born Patriot" every minute .. apparently


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:22 | 4210310 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Gee, read the fine Constitution.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:36 | 4210631 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

It is true that all currency -- no matter how elastic they might stretch it for a while -- eventually has to be re-indexed to real assets.

Most ppl here seem to subscribe to (suffer from) the 19th century notion of using gold/silver as the ONLY real asset for said purpose.

While there are historic reasons for this 'tradition', there is NO fundamental law of physics or socio-economics that forces us to use only these as hard absolutes of "Indexing". The (sad/scary) truth is, that a range of precious, semi-precious and strategic real assets can be used. Individually, or in ANY combination (in a basket of real assets).

And here is the part where things begin to get really scary (for us on ZH), because TPTB have a veritable Army of genius-level guys, who can brainstorm and plan for the next stage in "The future of Money".

Unless you're one of those insufferable (piss & vinegar) Know-it-Alls, I'd start hedging with my own "Basket** of real assets". It's not "zero hedge", but "ALL hedge".

** PM (Au, Ag, Platinum, Palladium), strategic metals and rare-earth minerals, water rights, arable land, mining rights, drilling rights... And also some spare fiat/cash and some BTC, to complete the Hedge for a world, where truth is stranger than fiction.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:32 | 4210859 Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

"This is exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. Our national currency is issued by our Federal Reserve bank - what does gold have to do with our currency?"

wish I had multiple accounts to vote you down multiple times... "natural born stupid"

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 15:38 | 4211153 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

HEY BP, million dollar moron on vacation or what?  Does the word dilution mean anything to you?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:11 | 4209955 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


You might want to talk to The Fed, Congress and the President about undermining the national currency. They just might have a little more influence over the $USD than some unknown poster on ZH.

<Just sayin' Dude.>

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:21 | 4210002 PP
PP's picture

can you please give me an answer:

if US bullion banks net long in Comex, will they fully hedged in London OTC market? or even more short ?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:42 | 4210084 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

an answer: Spitball Scalped the Baby

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:38 | 4210385 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

The answer is not so simple.  There is a boatload of gold shorted into the market by the central banks or more likely their agents (lackys) the bullion banks.  There really started to be some heartburn with the gold backwardation and negative carry rates.  Here is a nice essay from James Turk on the subject:

Nobody knows for sure the exact "quantity" but what I have heard recently is that there are 70 paper claims on gold for every physical ounce.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:37 | 4210639 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Try 700 or 7000...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:58 | 4210167 Help Is Not Coming
Help Is Not Coming's picture

Silver and Gold Eagles ARE our national money. FRNs are our national currency. You can have the currency and I'll take the money.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:36 | 4210627 Silveramada
Silveramada's picture

To solve your simple problem TRY TO READ THE CONSTITUTION ART1 SEC 10   right there black on white bou bou...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:24 | 4210825 sixbilliondollarman
sixbilliondollarman's picture

Federal Reserve notes are "your National currency"?...

[someone created this guy's account as a joke on here?]

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:30 | 4210854 sixbilliondollarman
sixbilliondollarman's picture

Federal Reserve Notes are "your national currency"? I suppose SDRs from the U.N. is your currency too?

[typical jackass]

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:29 | 4210339 Alhazred
Alhazred's picture

Maples are cheaper ehh!

Still I think I need more lead than silver.

My silver stack grows but my ammo stack keeps shrinking for some reason. ;)

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:21 | 4210569 Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

Maples ARE cheaper. But down here in the rural south... them there funny silver maple thingys ain't as common as eagles. Hell, they sell eagles in individual sleeves at the general store down the way. I highly doubt in a reset kinda situation that I'll be able to school these southern boys on the merits of why I paid a lower premium for the foreign stuff lol. "No, really Bubba, it's the same thing!" hahaha

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:55 | 4209863 dryam
dryam's picture

Time to rotate my physical silver into bitcoin.......Not! The price of silver gets hammered, bitcoin goes parabolic, and central banks give a "warning" on virtual currencies to give the appearance they are against them.......when has a central bank operated above the table on matters they are truly concerned about? The USD is about 96% virtual & 4% paper. The will likely need to increase QE soon instead of decreasing it like they have been saying. The whole system is supported by two things: faith & trust.  Faith & trust will be greatly harmed when QE picks up.  So, let's manipulate the price of the PM's well below the cost of production, fool people into thinking they can preserve their wealth by moving it from one virtual currency to another and make it seem like bitcoin was started by the people for the people, and that way we we won't have to deal with the ultimate physical limitations of PM manipulation.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:02 | 4209915 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> ... by moving it from one virtual currency to another and make it seem like bitcoin was started by the people for the people ...

Can't be said enough. It's another scam just like GOOG and FB.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:06 | 4209930 Fake_nation
Fake_nation's picture

Thank you. Reuters reported a few years ago that traders at all the big banks treat BTC as their second job...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:01 | 4210733 Crash Overide
Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:38 | 4210070 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

Here is a fantastic cypto-story/tale/parable




Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:13 | 4209963 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

I know this is getting surrealistic for PM investors, but my questions is how far are these nut jobs going to take the crazy train?

I want to drop the hammer down now, the full load, but think they will do the Taper crap into the spring and then start the "Summer Doldrums" nonsense into the fall.  To buy silver in the teens is awsome.  To do it for years will make you wealthy. 

I think in KG's, and am hoping for $500 silver.  I honestly hope they keep this going through Obama's term.  Funny how each financial meltdown occurs at the end of one of these idiots eight year terms.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:02 | 4210198 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

They're going to take it as far as they can go with it.  There's no point trying to put an end-point on it because they'll just push it as far as the can get away with.  I look at the inventory charts of the Comex and the import numbers for China, and it seems to me that there's a delivery problem coming eventually, but in that case I'd think the banks in charge will go full tilt right into the end of it - the price will get lower as the inventory drops, until they can't deliver and they've emptied GLD. and then they'll just close up shop and that will be the end of it, no more gold to sell, no need to mark it down.


I'd like to buy silver in the teens, but I'm seeing $3 premiums for the most part.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:35 | 4210361 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

then they'll just close up shop and that will be the end of it, no more gold to sell, no need to mark it down.


They will stay open - all contracts settled in $$ instead of physical. It's in every COMEX contract. By then, we may have a $150 Big Mac, but hey, maybe then McD's employees will be up to $25/hr.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 16:03 | 4211254 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

It might as well be a part of the plan. Slam the prices down so that when the inevitable $$ settlements occur, they'll get a few cents on a dollar.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:00 | 4210482 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

My thinking on Comex inventories and default is different.  Comex and LBMA levels are so low, they must not worry about default anymore, just like anyone that holds a futures contract must know it is just paper trash. 

Comex paper holders won't ask for delivery because their contracts will become worthless then and there. That is also why the comex cannot lie about their inventories, like the fed lies about the USA having 8000 tons of gold, yet cannot even give Germany back a fraction of their gold reserves.  If Comex said they had, lets say 50 tons, the Chinese or someone else would come in and ask for 45 tons..  The comex has to report their pathetic numbers or someone will buy their lie, and that means default..Game over..

 If JPM is long gold or silver futures, then they are just holding paper garbage they can never redeem for real gold.  Try taking those contracts to the Shanghai exchange for delivery JPM.  So any JPM long positions has to be sold at some point, thus hammering prices.

What I am waiting for now is China to loan the Comex gold.  If China is importing 1000+ metric tons a year, what do they care if they give the Comex ten tons to keep the price basically cut in half or more?

If you buy metals, it is a marathon, which you should think end of decade.  Many bulls in this market are just wanting to sell out when silver or gold hits certain numbers, such as silver 50,100,150...

If your young, run in this market like a marathon runner.  Think post 2020..

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:34 | 4210625 dryam
dryam's picture

"If you buy metals, it is a marathon....."


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 16:11 | 4211281 Gief Gold Plox
Gief Gold Plox's picture

Agreed. My kids are still babies. When I buy metals, I do it for my grandchildren.


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:57 | 4210713 seek
seek's picture

It's in China's best interest to not force a COMEX default. TPTB are using COMEX to manipulate gold pricing down, which makes physical more affordable. This actually supports your idea that they'll take it as far as they can go. Western CBs want cheap gold to solve their problems with gold lending and keeping fiat attractive, and China wants cheap gold to acquire physical.

I don't think they'll ever close up shop until it's truly the end (ie the USD implodes.) I do think it's entirely possible all physical will be drained from the system save a token amount of untouchable physical at COMEX for reasons of appearing legitimate. At such time the physical gold is gone we'll likely see the FOFOA scenario play out, where the physical market detatches from the paper.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 14:20 | 4210808 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

The Chinese like sweat shops and are even buying gold and silver ore from Mexican drug cartels. They are big and all over Africa.
Not demonizing the Chinese, but if you think they care about miners, manipulation, corruption or share holders, well, just take a look at how Chinese stocks have done.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 16:01 | 4211232 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

 I'd think the banks in charge will go full tilt right into the end of it - the price will get lower as the inventory drops, until they can't deliver and they've emptied GLD.

I think that's it right there -- once COMEX and GLD are empty, ball game over. Keep watching inventory levels.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:33 | 4209809 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Come on Ben, you can do better than this.  Soon I'll have some Christmas money to spend.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:35 | 4209820 youngman
youngman's picture

Pisses me off that the investment world is so dumb....Gold is the real money....the  paper is still just paper..and trilions more every year..

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:38 | 4209833 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

How is the investment world so dumb when they tricked the average American to trade their paper FRN's for some "claim on a companies profit", while the investment world takes the newly acquired FRN's and buys PM's with it?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:07 | 4209934 indygo55
indygo55's picture

I met my son's high school advisor yesterday and after we discussed college and such the topic of graduates and no jobs came up. He agreed that there were few jobs for grads who don't do well but didn't understand that the debt was one of the major debt issues facing us today and that it was barred from being discharged even in bankruptcy.

When I mentioned the subject of Quantitative Easing and the FED printing 85 billion a month he had no idea what I was talking about. He never heard of QE. HAd no idea who Bernanke or Yellen is and though that the FED was a goverment agency.

This is a student advisor in a highly rated public school. Really sad. 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 16:04 | 4211250 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

19 out of 20 high school advisors would be as equally clueless. And likely 99 out of 100 public school teachers.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:01 | 4209911 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Paper gold isn't real money.  It's one of the oldest schemes in the world--fraudulent fractional reserve gold.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:14 | 4209960 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

"investment world is so dumb"... This "activity" in the metals, has nothing to do with "investment" or the world. Its part of the agenda, and its too big to fail.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:38 | 4209823 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:45 | 4209855 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

lol.  not until $800 gold and $12 silver.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:58 | 4209902 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

JPM bought another 300,000 ounces of silver at $19.233 yesterday....

Bringing their total for the first three days of December to 4,595,000 ounces, which is equivalent to 157 tonnes.  That's in addition to the 68,400 ounces of gold they've picked up so far in December.

I suspect they know more about the value of the metals than either of us.  It seems highly unlikely that we will see $800 gold ever again.



Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:22 | 4210309 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

So what you're saying is, when they say sell, buy!  When they say buy, sell!


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:59 | 4210487 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

I'm saying that they've been doing pretty well manipulating, er.,, trading silver over the past couple of years that I've been watching, and now they are accumulating.  That's all.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 15:21 | 4211069 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Had you/we bought some/more PLATINUM and PALLADIUM, instead of just AG and AU, we'd be singing a different song. 

Fact is...

(1) Platinum is more "precious" than Gold, given its greater scarcity, its properties and uses

(2) Because of (1) and its industrial and strategic uses, both Platinum and Palladium have had far better price stability

(3) Because neither Platinum nor Palladium are used by Goldbugs for currency speculation (front-running* the USD), the CBs & Friends (Fed, GS, JPM, BOC, BOE) have not manipulated/spanked down its prices.  All us Front-Runners got "spanked", and only the middlemen made their money (commissions!). 

IMHO: I strongly suspect that this will continue for some time, as I see no end in sight for the Sideways market and I don't trust anyone else's crystal ball (or agenda) either.

(4) Even Rhodium was/is a FAR superior "store of value" than gold or silver. --> Pure innate value, w/o the front-running currency Speculators  beating the ZH war drums.

Let's be 100% honest and cut the crap, shall we?  Most of us here (>90%) aren't just buying Gold+Silver as "stores of value".  Many if not most of us are trying to Front-Run the CBs.  And some are even "betting the farm" on getting rich quick, by hoping & wishing for a crash & burn, and a magical resurrection of gold+silver to its glory of a long-gone era.

The (sad but bitter) truth to AG and AU is, that there are a lot of people on ZH (readers and writers) making a nice living in the buying & selling of these, and that the markets for Platinum, Palladium or Rhodium are too small at the retail level, for these guys to bother promoting/shilling to the ZH masses.  It is purely for these objective facts and reality that I hold most gold and silver "fans" here as highly suspect,  I thing that many are Agents, Shills and Front-Runners in Sheep's clothing.  If they are genuine retail-level Buyers/Investors, then I submit that they have not looked at the bigger picture (above) and have allowed themselves and their FRNs to get sucked down that gold and silver hole.  So to speak.

In my own case, I've included some Platinum in my PM holdings, but not Palladium or Rhodium.  The reasons are simple: (a) Don't care for the Sales Tax on both, and (b) to be honest, I don't want to simply "store" (park!) my fiat and watch it do 'nothing':  no ROI, no Dividends.  If... IF Gold ever "goes to the moon", so will Platinum (free ride, baby!).  An NO risk of the dreaded "Gov Confiscation".  You think about that this Christmas, Charlie Brown.

/ All the Agents, Shills and Middlemen of gold and silver, Zealots and Front-Running Currency Speculators may now junk me for outing them with too much "Truthiness".  /sarc


* "Don't fight the Fed" is a cliche.  Don't fight them, or risk getting crushed, ye gold & silver shills and zealots!  They can stay liquid longer than you can.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:38 | 4209826 cora
cora's picture

Single digits when China's bubble bursts?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:38 | 4209828 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Anyone got a guess how low we are going here?


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:43 | 4209840 Orly
Orly's picture


Long-term support...and all will be right with the world.


Addo:  ...and may I add, a hella buying opportunity.  Start buying in at the first of the year.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:45 | 4209860 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

When you seen mine owners shut down the mine because they can get the metal cheaper by buying bullion from their local dealer...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:46 | 4209861 jomama
jomama's picture

i'm not waiting until the first of the year to buy silver

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:56 | 4209894 Orly
Orly's picture

Then pay a fifty percent premium, on top of what you already pay to buy the stuff.  I don't care.  I don't trade silver.


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:05 | 4210512 jomama
jomama's picture

if you don't care, why are you posting?


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 13:41 | 4210658 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Only is known to be a troll

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:58 | 4209904 Blano
Blano's picture

Haven't seen you much lately Orly.  Always enjoy your comments on PM's, FX etc.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:11 | 4209956 Orly
Orly's picture

It's been a tough row to hoe here lately but I thank you.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 17:36 | 4211545 akak
akak's picture

That "tough row" is only of your own creation, Orly, as you continue to spout your specious strawman arguments and insulting lies about "no inflation" and eternally-priced $0.99/lb chicken breasts.  I only wish that your tagteam buddy with the pigman avatar were still around to tell us once again how "constant inflation-adjusted prices prove that there is no inflation".

Behind that sweet and innocent avatar of yours lies a brutally dishonest and disingenuous sociopath.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 19:58 | 4212017 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Akak, to be fair, Orly hasn't claimed chicken breasts are $0.99 in quite a while. Silence can be revealing. But the truly noble do admit their mistakes.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 05:00 | 4213047 akak
akak's picture

Meanwhile, Miffed, I am still feasting on homemade chicken liver pate --- but even that cost significantly more than $0.99/lb.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:20 | 4214558 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Your titillations are now bordering on the edge of salacious! ;-)

I have reviewed the recipe list in my cookbooks and realize this will be quite an expensive endeavor. This I don't mind, but the idea I may fail in my attempt makes me a bit trepidatious. My first attempt at hollandaise was a mound of curdled slop which I indignantly hurled out the window over our porch. I now make "scary good" hollandaise of which mr miffed has found no equal ( key is raw egg where no restaurant will dare to go).

That lesson was relatively cheap and only cost my dignity of which I have little at this point in my life. My neighbors have even ceased calling Mr to see if everything is ok. The answer is always " Oh Miffed is experimenting in the kitchen again! It'll be over when the expletives flow and the dogs are wolfing down something in the yard."


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:34 | 4210054 thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

15.3x35.5=550kg bar.


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:43 | 4209844 Boston
Boston's picture

The lower the better. Just keep on buying, sytematically, on the way down. I buy at every $2 decrement but in larger quantities every step down.

I just love fire sales! 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:52 | 4209875 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Same here.  It's like 'Silver Tuesday', then 'Silver Wednesday', etc.  Better than letting the fiat rot in a bank or buying Chinese crap...

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:51 | 4210118 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

I'm selling a kidney at $17/oz, Sir Winston.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:41 | 4209836 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:43 | 4209848 Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

for awhile, then a massive helicopter drop like the world has never seen, then hyperinflation.


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:53 | 4209886 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

No doubt. 

Hopefully, you, me and others are wrong!

Ebb and flow is the way of the world......deflation isnt bad.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:42 | 4209838 gjp
gjp's picture

Relentless.  PM smackdown everyday, Europe getting creamed today, and US equities, barely scratched, while rabid momo dogs chase decide that Tesla is the flavour of the day ... the core of the rot is right here, cleanest dirty shirt my ass.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:09 | 4209945 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

or, maybe funds are liquidating their worst performing assets before the end of the year?  i know, i know....every downtick in gold and silver is manipulation and every uptick is "smart people" buying in?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:54 | 4210138 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

How about this idea:  Every downtick is a selloff of paper and every uptick is Asian physical buying.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:43 | 4209845 Drifter
Drifter's picture

They must really be worried about currency collapse, USD specifically.   More they hammer gold and silver down, more worried about dollar collapse they are.  So something must be on the horizon, they see it coming even if we don't.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:49 | 4209868 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

See it coming? They're planning it.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:35 | 4210368 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

Ding ding ding!  Great Depression 2.0.  Pump up your assets with funny money, sell them, kill the market, buy them all back for pennies, all the while telling the people it was their fault and tricking them into giving you more power to do it again, only worse next time. 



Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:43 | 4209846 The Duke of Skiatook
The Duke of Skiatook's picture

I heard of the Greenspan put, I understood the Bernake put, but I haven't heard jack about a Yellen put. 

Is she to good to give a put? 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:19 | 4210082 The Devil
The Devil's picture

Yellen: It puts the silver in the baket. IT PUTS THE SILVER IN THE BASKET!

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:43 | 4209850 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

same modus operandi for the last 5 years...


more real money for me today....

cya on the other side......

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:44 | 4209853 OwnSilverPlayMusic
OwnSilverPlayMusic's picture

Silver's on sale just in time for the holidays!

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:35 | 4210377 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

It makes a great stocking stuffer.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:47 | 4209862 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Yes! Run you fuckin serfs! Get those STAWKS. Corral everyone into digital money make believe land. Heaven forbid you hold tangible stuff some cocksucker can't Cyprus.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:47 | 4209864 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

I fucking knee this would happen. I should have tipped y'all off last night. How did I know this would happen? I ordered some more last night, which has consistently been followed by a further price drop. Sorry, I should have tipped you off. I am like stolpher when I think it's done dropping. 100% of the time, if I think it's done dropping and buy, it drops more.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:51 | 4209877 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture

I obviously have to buy some at this price. Too low.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:53 | 4209888 Pesky Labrador
Pesky Labrador's picture

And yet JPM takes delivery of physical silver from COMEX. Their shaking the tree and picking up the low hanging fruit while the sheeple are fleeced.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:01 | 4209892 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

What if this month is it?  The month COMEX fails to come up with enough ounces of gold to meet delivery.  The CRIMEX is currently short some 400,000 ounces per Bill Holter's piece yesterday:  

     "Something" Must Happen: 

Could it be the criminal banksters are slamming the POG and POS as low as possible in order to minimize the dollars they have to pay out when the inevitable day of reckoning arrives -- the day the CRIMEX runs out of physical?

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:15 | 4209979 agent default
agent default's picture

Have you read COMEX the fine print?  They can force cash settlement and they also have the authority under US law to fix the price of gold to whatever they want.  COMEX default will not happen most people here think it will.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 10:58 | 4209900 Dubaibanker
Dubaibanker's picture

Prices may go wherever they want, but real prices, on the street, are 10% above spot price 'fixed' by London fixers, going at 10% over spot as on date, in the largest markets of them all - India. This has been going on for a few months now and is not an aberration. If any more changes are done to the status quo in India, not only will smuggling keep rising and push most gold sales into the 'black market' which is what occured in all the neighbouring countries of India few months ago, when gold was imported by them and it simply disappeared (into India) but also reduce Govt's tax revenues while increasing job losses in the gold sector into millions across India.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:03 | 4209922 jvetter713
jvetter713's picture

Wish I could buy it for $19.  Maybe when the paper price hits $8 I can get it for $19.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:05 | 4209928 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

Pricing in the untaper. And pricing in the ol yellen nomination. This way they have room to bounce higher without alarming anyone. I just wish I was brave enough to actually bet on it. Buy DUST a few weeks before the fed meeting so you can make money on the way down, sell and buy GDXJ a day before they announce that they aren't going to stop or slow QE because "the timing isn't right " and then take profits and buy more physical.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:05 | 4209932 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Orly, don't trade it,buy Gold,same smack down is going on.I cannot wait for it to go as low as these idiot bstds want to take it.'I will back up da truck.

Best get what you can India and China will be SUCKING it up like the intelligent SOBS they are,or and Rooskies.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:07 | 4209938 TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Double bottom. 

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:11 | 4209958 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Keep stretching that rubberband, boys.  It'll only fly farther once it's sprung.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 16:50 | 4211381 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Pardon me for saying so JS, but like your rubber-band analogy, you're such a "linear" thinker*, so 17th century.  Fact is...

The CBs of just the G7 (not even the G20) can simply agree to Re-Index/Recalibrate their (fiat) currencies to a BASKET of REAL assets.  It doesn't even have to be limited a basket of PM (Gold + Silver + Platinum + Palladium).  If they really wanted to screw us Sheeple over, they could include units of Energy or Power (Watts).

And BANG goes the Gold/Silver Speculating & Front-Running, that's running amok on ZH and other Doomsday/Prepper sites.  Then all our "Precious" would truly become a... "Barbaric Relic" (mine included) and the ZH world would turn upside down, as the upside potential of a get-rich-quick in Gold+Silver got severely curtailed in the Great Re-Indexing/Reset. 

The cacophony of "not fair" and "CB dirty tricks" would not end.  And once again, the likes of Jamie Dimon would be... "richer than you are".   Cause these CB "bass-turds" can afford to hire an army of really smart guys -- each of whom is... "smarter than you are".  No offense.  :-)

Even Jim Rickards would 'gulp', if/WHEN this comes about.  But at least he's smart and shrewd enough (having spent time with sharp cookies at the Government's Applied Physics Laboratory during his Currency Wars games in 2008), to have advised his well-heeled clients to use gold as a partial hedge against fiat currencies, by limiting their portfolios to 10-20% in gold.  It is not a coincidence that he advocates them to include other time-proven (real + scarce) assets in a balanced and diversified portfolio.


* But maybe it's just me... who's a tad bored with Newtonian Mechanics, and prefer Relativity physics and live for Multi-Domain, Multi-Variable Design & Optimization (with cross-coupled terms), overcoming Local Minima and shaking things out with Monte Carlo games, or Perturbations and Disruptions in Complex Systems.  It's OK if you can't "grok" that.  Sometimes it gives me a headache also.  Simply put: I enjoy thinking outside the (2D) pasture or (3D) box.  Cause life's too long for boring shit and too short for cool stuff.

p.s. JS, I do like how they've put (the real) Bach's Brandenburg Concerto #3 on Voyager ("V_ger").   Cool use of complex mathematical patterns in creating classical music.  ;-)

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 17:51 | 4211607 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Star Date 411432...


Captain... I think you may have overanalyzed my simple statement.  It was merely meant to logically show that you can't screw with the laws of nature forever - whether it be economics or otherwise.  The price of ALL manipulated commodities will eventually find their actual trading value in relation to dollars or whatever.  That is why we advocate for them.  This does not mean that we are hoarders or "gold bugs"... just prudent and perhaps a bit frugal.


JS Spock

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 17:59 | 4211626 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

The CBs of just the G7 (not even the G20) can simply agree to Re-Index/Recalibrate their (fiat) currencies to a BASKET of REAL assets.  It doesn't even have to be limited a basket of PM (Gold + Silver + Platinum + Palladium).  If they really wanted to screw us Sheeple over, they could include units of Energy or Power (Watts).

The problem with your highfalutin hypothecating is a little thing called Trust.  If the Sheeple don't trust that new high-tech fiat currency the current crop of Corrupt Banksters are selling -- backed, naturally, by a basket of Bullshit and empty promises -- what good is it going to do? The people will not use it.

The time tested way to reboot a defunct monetary system is to issue a new currency backed by and convertable to Real Money (Gold/Silver).  I suspect this time it will the same.  Or perhaps all those eastern central banksters are accumulating and holding tons of gold because of "tradition" (h/t Bernanke).

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:15 | 4209982 J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

The silver to gold ratio is now 64 to 1.  Unbelieveable opportunity for silver buyers.

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:17 | 4209983 fredquimby
fredquimby's picture

The last of my over-exuberant $70 and $55 calls made in 2010 expire on Friday 6th December at 13.00 CET.

I would imagine a rally from then is almost guaranteed; which would support the post below/above saying JPM is currently backing up the silver truck no?


Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:17 | 4209988 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

i'll gladly swap out a $20bill for a 1oz silver eagle ..... those s.o.b.'s !!!  

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 11:32 | 4210039 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Thanks lynnybee, may sound dumb but really never thought of it that way before? (smacks head, sticks a few $20's aside for next trip near LCS)


Edit, smacks head again after checking out Apmex after not doing so for a long time........realizes the G-dmn f-king premiums are f-g crazy.What a crock of shit

Tue, 12/03/2013 - 12:01 | 4210191 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

Exactly.  Morgan's any better condition than cull and you're still paying $30 each...

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