• BullionStar
    05/30/2016 - 21:24
    The US Gold Market is best known as the home of gold futures trading on the COMEX in New York. The COMEX has a literal monopoly on gold futures trading volumes worldwide, but very little physical...

Gold And Silver "Bitcoin"-ed As Stocks Are "Baumgartner"-ed

Tyler Durden's picture


Whether it was President Obama's call for moar debt, less spending cuts, and a safety bid from his implicit end-QE comments, technicals from moving-averages, or reflections of the USD weakness; precious metals are surging this morning... Stocks are tumbling further (as are bonds) back to EURJPY-implied levels... call for gold bubbles in 3...2...1...



And stocks have recoupled with the all-important carry trade...

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Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:22 | 4214293 Dear Infinity
Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:25 | 4214303 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

Silver <19 is a bargain!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:33 | 4214337 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Silver on Fire today!

Live Spot Silver Chart:  http://www.pmbull.com/silver-price/

I knew that was gonna happen. I chickened out of buying yesterday and the day before.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:34 | 4214356 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Buy Gold

Been saying it all week and posting big charts to back it up.

Doing very well already.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:42 | 4214372 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

BITcoin May Be ""Backed"" By 1 Ozs GOLD ???


Here She Comes ...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:50 | 4214401 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I would be interested in how many of you have even bothered reading Satoshi's seminal work, Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System?

It is truly a tour de force in both banking and software engineering history.



Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:53 | 4214431 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Bitcoiners and those who have been riding the one way trade of the FED better exit now thatthe doors are wide open as the bottleneck will be tighter and tighter Even if you have to give up a few more shekels of profits, get out now.

Those who exit first get the most. So said the Oracle

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:00 | 4214472 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Those who trade their BTC for FRN are going to be filled with regret years from now.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:09 | 4214509 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

That depends on what they then trade those FRNs for now, doesn't it?

Fonestar, you may very well be BTC's worst enemy. Your over-the-top arrogance, foolish looking certainty and general attitude has probably turned more people away from BTC than towards it. You are like a characature of a clown setting himself up for a big fall.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:16 | 4214548 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I really don't care if you join the team, in fact I would rather see ignorant, dismissive a**holes not on my team.  Your country is already far behind the rate-of-adoption following China, Germany, Canada and many other places.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:22 | 4214573 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

I think a lot of people buy PMs to protect themselves and their familes. This decision is probably tied to the belief that the system is stacked against them and unworthy of trust. Bitcoin may be the best option...no doubt...however, I just can not place my trust in something that I can not see or touch. Further, should PMs shoot to the moon...I would not rub peoples' noses in it either.

Enjoy your gains, Fonestar, but do not lose your humility along the way. 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:44 | 4214701 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Fair enough, I don't understand the whole touch=trust thing myself but to each their own.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:49 | 4214738 Grande Tetons
Grande Tetons's picture

Jerking off to porn over the internet as opposed to having real sex with some hot chick. 

That is my best explanation! 

Good luck! 



Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:54 | 4214757 fonestar
fonestar's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 16:50 | 4214972 therover
therover's picture

Right..and when I am done fucking that hot chick, she always asks for cash...at least for now ! HA ! 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:26 | 4215954 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

don't understand?
Historically what you can't touch later turns to a value of zero because what you can touch needs to be used.
Silver coins (money) were melted into silver spoons, needed for eating.
Can't do that with bitcoins.
you don't understand: a primary core purpose of money is it has a non-monetary use, a consumable, a tool, a medicine.
That which has ONLY the purpose of money by definition CAN'T be money.
You just pig-headedly think otherwise.
Reality will kick you hard in the balls to teach you that lesson.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:24 | 4214587 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Your country? I haven't disclosed "my" country. Your tendency to make assumptions betrays your true level of ignorant arrogance. 

"I would rather see ignorant, dismissive a**holes not on my team."

Well that's a problem for you then. How, prey-tell, can you not be on your own team, fonestar?


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:34 | 4214646 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Regardless of where you live, time goes forwards and not backwards, there will always be currencies and technology will always be advancing whether you like it, understand it or not.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 16:09 | 4214829 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

LOL. Blathering a bunch of platitudes will not make your half a bitcoin go up to $2,000 either, like it or not.

Yes, technology advances. I understand that. I understand that the first mover in new technology is not necessarily the one to win. Remember Netscape Navigator? How about AOL?  Infoseek?  

I also understand that there will always be governments who will do whatever they have to in order to collect taxes. I also undersand that collusion among central banks who operate without borders, for their own benefit. Thus, even if citizens in the U.S. are not adopting BTC as fast as other countries, it doesn't matter. The Fed in the U.S. acts in concert with TPTB in other countries, including China, where BTC is technically illegal.

Your inability to recognize or even discuss the risks with BTC, and your arrogant dismissals of criticism with nothing more than BS platitudes (or gross mischaracterizations of those who raise the questions) betrays you as either a pumper looking for the greater fool, or the greater fool himself, unable to assess the thing he's fallen a little too much in love with.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 17:15 | 4215057 fonestar
fonestar's picture

That's hardly true.  In fact I have consistently said that you should not invest in something you do not understand and to those that do, allocate only a small portion.  I lived through dot.com, remember Netscape Navigator and others, worked for a Nortel subsidiary at the time.  I would hardly compare a web browser to the world's first p2p crypto-currency.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:39 | 4215365 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

I would hardly compare a web browser to the world's first p2p crypto-currency.


I wasn't comparing them. I was pointing out that an early leader in tech does not a winner necessarily make. You missed the point.  "World's First" does not mean the ultimate winner.  


Now, given that an actual currency intended to replace fiat is bigger, more important, and more likely to affect the livlihoods of those that deign to rule over us than which brand of web browser dominates, the liklihood of some other solution unseating BTC (and that brings control back) rises, not shrinks.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:44 | 4216014 Metal Minded
Metal Minded's picture

"including China, where BTC is technically illegal."

I don't think so. As a matter of fact, the current bull run in BTC, which began 11/06 @ $262(and which shows no sign of abating, ~1124.8 USD global average at present- https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD|nomillibit) is the result of Chinese CNY coming into the market after the Chinese Government gave BTC its blessing through multiple media outlets. 

Cryptocurrency is a tiny market(currently about 1/2 of AG), and I believe smart money is allocating a small amount to this asset class, getting in before the possible inrush of the herd. Hate on it if you wish, but consider it an highly speculative play diversifying into a potential new asset class(only allocate a little to the class).

And for those who understand and hate the current FRN, money as debt, fractional reserve banking, etc, consider the real possibility of Cryptocurrency being the death of the USD and the rest of the world's fiat.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:13 | 4215693 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Actually, "AllThatGlitters" you guys MADE fonestar what he is.

We'd love to explain to you rationally, without over-the-top emotion - but you know what? You guys make it IMPOSSIBLE to be heard over your seal-like barks of GOLD GOLD GOLD and whatever else is stuck in your heads.

Combine that with the age demographic, as most here are barely able to USE a computer much less comprehend the abstract principles behind them, you get a bunch of "wizened" trolls doing nothing more than wearing down the civil discourse on the subject.

We all tried, early in the beginning to get you guys to understand, but when the wall of ALL CAPS CRAZYTOWN BULLSHIT kept on coming, some of us snapped. Because, you see, when you are faced with a shrieking cage full of shit-hurling chimps, sometimes the best move is to bare your teeth and fucking go to town.

So if you're complaining about Fonestar, you really should be complaining about YOURSELF and every other fucker on here who can't be bothered to consider an alternate viewpoint.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:15 | 4214530 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Everybody knows FRNs are on their way out. What I don't understand is why people trust BitCoins. It's a pure speculator's market. In an unregulated market such as BTC the big wallets (central bankers!) have the most potential to move it to their advantage. This looks like a classic pump and dump, rinse, and repeat.

This doesn't even take into account that BTC will be utterly useless in a SHTF scenario, which would not be out of the question in a currency crisis, since they don't function without both electricity and the Internet. There is no intrinsic value in digital currency!

Those who choose BTC over gold and silver are going to be filled with regret years from now.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:17 | 4214547 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

So precious metals are the best play out there should the fed actually taper...which pretty much means they are fucked.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:20 | 4214562 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You guys keep mentioning this "SHTF" BS?  Did it ever occur to you that the entire globe will most likely not SHTF all at once?  What you are going to do after your SHTF?  That perhaps there's a great party going on halfway accross the globe as you are SHTFing?  That Bitcoiners and others might want to buy a ticket to that party?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 16:02 | 4214787 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You've got two competing issues...  one is that as americans we believe we have control over the world, thus if our currency fails, then the whole world goes down the shitter...  you might call this american exceptionalism...  However, on the other hand, the dollar does function as the world's financial lubrication, so... 

The big issue is that the dollar tends to lose power more quickly than people want to accept...  and any other sovereign worth its salt is hedging against it and otherwise seeking to mitigate its influence.

PS, bitcoin is just a competitor, not a savior per se.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 17:30 | 4215122 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"as americans we believe we have control over the world, thus if our currency fails, then the whole world goes down the shitter..."

Yes, I can quite clearly see that.  Things will likely be pretty crazy for a few weeks and months after a dollar failure but life will go on.  I would prefer to think along slightly longer timelines than a few weeks following such an incident.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:23 | 4215942 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

those who don't will get nothing for btc years from now - not any silver, gold, paper money, land, nothing.
BTC will have zero value in 3 years. The entire market-cap for all bitcoins will be ONE dollar.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:04 | 4214487 Dr. Everett V. Scott
Dr. Everett V. Scott's picture

Here is some very interesting info on the international gold market & related shenanigans:



Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:45 | 4214696 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

I think Wei-Dai, Back and Finney and others might contest "seminal" -- derivative is more appropriate.

The system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any cooperating group of attacker nodes

Gee, Whoda thunk?

And I hardly think a 9 page paper constitutes a tour de force in both banking and software engineering history although to ~20 lines of code describing a Poisson distribution is  bar none, the shiniest example of Satoshi's godliness and all software engineering is now invalid.






Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:52 | 4214748 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I do not doubt they would.... no points for proof of concept or what?  Thanks for the whitespace anyway it screams louder than


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 17:05 | 4215026 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

First off, I apologize for the spaces they were unintentional, I will offer my fat cat who decided to jump on the laptop to Satoshi as an offering at the altar. Just curious is your first name Dick?

Secondly,(these are intentional with all deference to Francis Sawyer), POINTS FOR A PROOF OF CONCEPT! In one breath, you call everyone an asshole for not bowing down to Satoshi and his brilliance, people are assholes not buying bitcoin hand over first and in the next breath we need to give him cred for a POC?! The World Banking system needs to be dispatched with extreme prejudice because of a cyperpunk's POC? People need to put all their wealth into Satoshi's POC? Are you fucking serious. A little late to claim academic innocence. So what, when the first real crash hits the system, the crew can just say, "Hey, it was just a POC". I'm sure all those fleeced will understand.

Go back to pumping and dumping with your mining pool -- you know, the things Satoshi specifically didn't want in the P2P network. Or should we now buy litecoins with your recommendation of mcxNow.com --OOPS.

If you want people to jump on the BTC revolution, polish your sales pitch. The braggadoccio and hyperbole ain't cutting it.

And before you hurl any more Adderal induced epithets, I've owned BTC since the original "Fuck You Blythe" campaign Max Keiser was pushing. BTC is a great trade but if you're the poster boy for the "movement" maybe it's time to rethink.

And BTW, why no love for Charlie Lee or Sunny King? They seem to be walking the talk unlike the mysterious Satoshi.

But then again, maybe I AM SATOSHI. Blows your mind there huh Morpheus.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 17:37 | 4215140 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Hey even Shamir, Stallman and others don't sound too crazy about Bitcoin.  But you know what?  You can't deny that Bitcoin has been out threre in the wild taking heads for four years now.  Not bad for some POC hey?  I like businesses and concepts in general that have proven themselves over time and I would count Bitcoin amongst them and don't feel that is being premature at this point.  And FYI the only epithets I have hurrled have been towards those that were deliberately dismissive and rude calling me a shill pushing "bitchcoin", "bitcon", etc, etc.  If someone wants to sound like an ignoramus should I really feel bad for addressing them as such? 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:50 | 4216037 madbomber
madbomber's picture

so you took to much adderal? basically?    lol.   

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:21 | 4215935 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

all in for quatloos & cheeseKoinz

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:44 | 4214368 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

since losing 10 day support...silver has tested and failed @ 10 day moving average over 10 times since Nov 1...just sitting above now but if doesn't hold above, then a big fall could be triggered.

Silver really needs a close above $20 to break the cycle of longs dumping @ 10 day moving average and going short...above $20 and shorts need to cut their losses and the next silver run is off.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:53 | 4214430 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You guys get very excited over what you are told the price of silver will be.

Carry on.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:06 | 4214492 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

I'm kinda old school in that I like something which has great utility and is indispensible economically, is scarce and only getting scarcer, and seemingly priced simply @ it's replacement cost.

I've got nothing against or for bitcoin...it's just a bit too esoteric for my simple mind.  But I'm glad it makes sense to you and don't doubt there is some future for it...I guess there is such a large universe out there that we all have to pick our area and attempt to gain expertises...but that doesn't exactly mean we know much bout our neighbors business.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:08 | 4214507 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People who own silver should do fine too.  But it will be funny if and when they are forced to convert some to BTC to send to friends or relatives.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 15:20 | 4214568 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> People who own silver should

I've often wondered about the entrenched resentment towards gold bugs but things are beginning to clear up.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 16:23 | 4214880 Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

Im around 50/50 crypto and PM's - I dont think there should be any animosity between these methods.  Crypto and PM's both offer different solutions to wealth protection - they both have some risks, and advantages.  Crypto has done very well for me recently, but I just think money is the winner right now - whichever form it might be.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 17:00 | 4215015 fonestar
fonestar's picture

There should be less than animosity.  Most Bitcoiners own silver as well, six or seven figure BTC means the end of COMEX much, much faster.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:18 | 4215927 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

forced how? There grid won't be there to send to my relatives. Mail, physical delivery, perhaps but certainly no internet and no phones.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:31 | 4214338 CClarity
CClarity's picture

Signaling time for rotation out of Fed levitated assets? Planning for a Fed fail?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:33 | 4214345 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

some would argue, right now, anything below $78 is a bargain in silver...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:37 | 4214367 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> anything below $78 is a bargain in silver...

Looks like one of the inmates at Turd's place got out.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 14:40 | 4214384 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I can conceptually see silver going gangbusters if the system breaks, or TPTB want it to, but calling for the moonshot now is indeed premature.

Anything under 35 for a decent 1oz round in your hand, in my view is a bargoon though.

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