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Greenspan Baffled Over Bitcoin 'Bubble': "To Be Worth Something, It Must Be Backed By Something"

Tyler Durden's picture


"In order for currencies to be 'exchangeable' they have to be backed by something," is the remarkably ironic initial comment from none other than debaser-of-the-entirely-fiat-dollar Alan Greenspan when asked about the "bubble in bitcoin," by Bloomberg TV's Trish Regan. Unable to "identify the intrinsic" backing of Bitcoin (or see bubbles in equity, credit, real estate, or greater fools) Greenspan is, apparently, capable of identifying Bitcoin "as a bubble," because "there is no fundamental means of "repaying' it by any means that is universally accepted." The farcical double-speak continues as the Maestro does a great job of making Bitcoin (which Ron Paul earlier noted could be the "destroyer of the dollar") look even better than the readily-printed fiat we meddle with every day.

Greenspan explains...

"when we were on the gold standard, [currencies] had intrinisc value which made people willing to exchange their goods and services with no question."

"Alternatively, when we went into "currencies", it was the "backing" of the issuer of the currencies... whose "great credit-standing meant his checks could circulate as money.""

So either its backed by real physical metal with intrinsic value - or the promise of someone...(increasingly politicians of course) with good credit (or a big army)?

"I do not understand where the backing of Bitcoin is coming from. There is no fundamental means of "repaying' it by any means that is universally accepted."

Like fiat currencies (just ask the Venezuelans)...

"Individuals with very high net worth and great reputations could create their own currency... because people would be willing to exchange their checks with each other at par."

So coming soon the BuffettCoin or MuskCoin (oh wait reputation), or the GatesCoin?

But, Greenspan sums it all up...

"I haven't been able to identfy the intrinsic value of Bitcoin - maybe someone else can...

but if you ask me if this is a bubble in bitcoin... yeah it's a bubble.

Which ironically (perfectly circular) is exactly what Bernanke said about gold...



So - after that - go buy his book!?


And some more color from Ron Paul on Bitcoin as "destroyer of the US Dollar":

Via Mike Krieger's Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

While we believe it is the Federal Reserve that is systematically destroying the US dollar, Bitcoin could merely be the preferred conduit through which fed up citizens decide to express their displeasure with the incredibly corrupt corporatist-facist state being shoved down our throats by a handful of insane and greedy oligarchs. Interesting comments nonetheless. From CNN Money:

Imagine a world in which you can buy anything in secret. No banks. No fees. No worries inflation will make today’s money worth less tomorrow.


The digital currency Bitcoin promises all these things. And while it’s far from achieving any of them — its value is unstable and it’s rarely used — some have high hopes.


“There will be alternatives to the dollar, and this might be one of them,” said former U.S. congressman Ron Paul. If people start using bitcoins en masse, “it’ll go down in history as the destroyer of the dollar,” Paul added.


It’s unlikely that Bitcoin would replace the dollar or other government-controlled currencies. But it could serve as a kind of universal alternative currency that is accepted everywhere around the globe. Concerned about the dollar’s inflation? Just move your cash to bitcoins and use them to pay your bills instead. Tired of hefty credit card fees? Bitcoin allows transactions that bypass banks.


“That’s the holy grail for people who believe in freer markets and currency,” said Adam Gurri, a libertarian economics writer in New York.


There are no middlemen charging fees to move money between users. You can transfer bitcoins — even infinitesimally small fractions of one — directly to others’ digital wallets.


But don’t expect governments and banks to let Bitcoin take over so easily. Financial institutions will lose business if people stop using their payment systems, and central banks like the U.S. Federal Reserve would lose their ability to help slow and speed up economic activity. Paul expects banks to lobby and authorities to crack down.


“Governments absolutely demand a monopoly on money and credit. They’re not going to give it up easily,” Paul warned. “They will come down hard.”

Interesting times…

Full article here.


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Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:15 | 4215682 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

The USA backs it's shit paper with 'Faith & Debt'.  

*edit* Which reminds me, ... If the USA can print it's own 'currency', why does it need to collect taxes?  

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:16 | 4215705 Leonardo Fibonacci2
Leonardo Fibonacci2's picture

Greenspan should lay off the Viagra cause he is not of sound mind!!!! His wife is 40 years younger than him!!!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:18 | 4215723 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

USD is backed by the taxing power of DC.  Period.  This is Greedscam's "means of paying it back".

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:24 | 4215747 knukles
knukles's picture

BitCoin is backed by the Non-Full Faith and Credit of the US Government, dumbfuck

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:29 | 4215754 zaphod
zaphod's picture

"there is no fundamental means of "repaying' it by any means that is universally accepted."

Does this idiot not understand that you could make the exact same arguement for the US dollar? What is the dollar backed by? It is backed by dollar bonds which means that a dollar is backed by the promise of future dollars. This is circular and so the dollar has nothing backing it either.

The only reason the dollar has value is because people have mutually decided so. Similarly people can mutually decided anything else has value instead, and also decide the dollar has zero value (a growing percentage of the world)

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:32 | 4215777 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

"The only reason the dollar has value is because people have mutually decided so" ... at the end of a hellfire missile, jailtime, or somewhere unpleasant between the two

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:35 | 4215795 Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

The only reason the dollar has value is because people have mutually decided To belive in Fraud

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:44 | 4215804 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Satoshi Nakamoto is a pseudonym of the NSA cryptologist Tatsuaki Okamoto who wrote about a dozen papers on digital crypto currencies from 1991 to 1995.


1. Tony Eng and Tatsuaki Okamoto, Single-Term Divisible Electronic Coins, Advances in Cryptology EUROCRYPT '94, Springer-Verlag, pp. 311-323.

2. Tatsuaki Okamoto, An Efficient Divisible Electronic Cash Scheme, Advances in Cryptology - CRYPTO '95, Springer-Verlag, pp. 438-451.

3. Tatsuaki Okamoto and Kazuo Ohta, Universal Electronic Cash, Advances in Cryptology - CRYPTO '91, Springer-Verlag, pp. 324-337.

Following this work he began filing patents, Okamoto owns a string of patents which cover Bitcoin and are still valid for another 3-5 years, so he has every right to sue you.

Electronic cash implementing method using an anonymous public key license (1996)

Electronic cash implementing method with a surveillance institution, and user apparatus and surveillance institution apparatus for implementing the same (1997)

Method and apparatus for implementing hierarchical electronic cash (1997)

Electronic cash implementing method for issuer having electronic cash balance counters, corresponding issuer equipment and recording medium having recorded thereon a program for execution of the method (1998)

Wondering what he looks like??

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:50 | 4215837 Dear Infinity
Dear Infinity's picture

Whoever he may be, he certainly solved the age old problem of Alchemy...

Bitcoin:Gold ratio now sitting very very close to parity...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:13 | 4215906 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Hold, Spartans!

Nice of that NSA dude to release Bitcoin into the Public Domain as free and open source.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:50 | 4216029 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

greenspan is larry, benny is moe and yellen is curly

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:53 | 4216035 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Greedscam is just pissed he didn't invent Judencoin.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:56 | 4216055 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

which astute and perceptive zh'er compared this guy's kisser to a rotting pumkin?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:01 | 4216433 markmotive
markmotive's picture

If bitcoin isn't a speculative bubble, what is? How on earth is bitcoin fundamentally valued?

Peter Schiff vs. Stefan Molyneux on bitcoin:

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:24 | 4216515 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

"If you want to keep your 'Full Faith & Credit', you can keep your 'Full Faith & Credit.'"

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:06 | 4216643 MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture


Greinshpahn 'baffled' over the fact that he is still breathing: Thinks he is still alive (although he THINKS he should have died decades ago)...

His glasses are getting thicker as his penis shrinks...

REVEALED: Mr. Keynes has spoken to him through a 'medium', tells him to 'keep fucking the public'...

     Inside this exclusive news story, Greinshpahn reveals the song that he heard through the 'medium':



Greinshpahn mentions it, and the investment world goes WILD!



Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:24 | 4216776 PP
PP's picture

before Aug.15,1971, 35 US dollar was backed by 1 once of Gold.

after Aug.15.1971, 35 US dollar is backed by 1 once of politican.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:15 | 4216872 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture





His wife is 40 years younger than him!!!


Every good man is backed by a blithering idiot MSM shill.


Not sure what she's getting out of the deal...but I'm assuming it must be substantial.


There were rumors Alan was being compensated in gold....considering the price at the time that would have been one hell of a deal.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:23 | 4216899 PP
PP's picture

Tyler is sleeping... Bitshitcoin Already cracked down by PBOC

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:10 | 4216949 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Breaking News: Largest most authoritarian government in the world manages to slightly inconvenience Bitcoin, retracing to prices last seen 1 week ago. [PBOC statement]

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:33 | 4216781 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

<<<< Satoshi Nakamoto is a pseudonym of the NSA cryptologist Tatsuaki Okamoto who wrote about a dozen papers on digital crypto currencies from 1991 to 1995. >>>>

So then what OCCIDENTAL MORTAL is saying is that NSA actually allows China to buy all the gold she wants and at the same time is also selling Chinese people bitcoins at almost the same price as one oz of gold.


Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:48 | 4216790 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

You guys (in above comments) are all great minds and I greened you all.

Thanks for the erudite and worth-reading comments - the ZH University is ever-rendering of knowledge.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:05 | 4216842 MeMadMax
MeMadMax's picture

Mr. Greenspan, China and the dumbtruck loads of money that is being shoveled into BC would disagree with you wholeheartedly...


Have a nice day, AHole.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:44 | 4216922 new game
new game's picture

"she"; so china is female?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 11:37 | 4217610 N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

The only female child that wasn't drowned at birth

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:00 | 4216072 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Greenspan = Toady.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:39 | 4216182 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

If you can't baffle them with bullshit baffle them with bitcoin.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:43 | 4216192 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

And then co-write with Ayn Rand.  

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:58 | 4216876 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




The name is Galt.......John Galt.


John does not buy overpriced health insurance.....cause he just doesn't.


John, much like Chuck Norris doesn't buy bitcoins.....cause he just doesn't.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:43 | 4216194 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

You can do better than that. 

I've seen you do better.

Let it rip.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:33 | 4216340 akak
akak's picture

You know, I'm a litte confused after watching this video --- none of the other zombies in all the movies and TV series are able to talk like this one. Which is particularly surprising given his obviously advanced state of decay.

I just really wish he would stop biting and infecting all the economists and academics already.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:15 | 4216479 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Thanks, was trying not to hog space but...

Greedspun the diabolical prune admits that Gold and Silver have intrinsic value while at the same time pulling aside the curtain on the dollar being backed by nothing but debt and debt serfdom while simultaneously contradicting himself by asserting that Bitcoin is backed by nothing even though a great many individuals are converting their fiat into it.

He is either a disingenuous prick of epic proportions or an ignominious fool stuffed with economic theorems of straw, frass, and camel spit.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:15 | 4216447 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture



So, GreenSpam is indicting his own tenure at the Fed...

And now Bernanke and Yellen?

I'd be really surprised...

If this foot-in-mouth old fuddy-duddy...

Can still wipe his own ass!

He belongs in a 100% care old-folks home...

Where someone can change his dirty Depends for him.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:38 | 4216373 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Nice of that NSA dude to release Bitcoin into the Public Domain as free and open source."


A good point Hound.  And I'm still waiting for the resident idiots to explain to me why exactly CIA/NSA would threaten their own existence by releasing a floating currency that competes with the dollar?  Not that I doubt their ability to pull yet another baseless conspiracy out of their asses which will in turn be supported by another baseless conspiracy.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:53 | 4216406 akak
akak's picture

You annoy me.

Mommas, don't let your (basement) babies grow up to be Bitcoiners.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:55 | 4216411 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I don't annoy you.  FACTS annoy you.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:26 | 4216673 erg
erg's picture

Why are you so fervent to defend bitcoin? Why should you give a shit in the end if you got yours? The daily tete a tetes.

Red flags are starting to pop over you. After awhile it seems out of scale.

Maybe you're unique.

For good or ill you've become the ZH bitcoin point-man.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:33 | 4216680 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Because Bitcoin represents the pinnacle of anarcho-capitalist philosophy and I really like being right.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:10 | 4216761 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

right like when you mutter to yourself after your mother shouts at you from the top of the stairs? that kind of right pftonestar?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:25 | 4216777 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You fake libertarians are really nervous aren't you?  One figure BTC, two figure BTC, three figure BTC, four figure BTC.....  I know your fake "end the fed" BS.  You just wanted to co-opt the Fed and start the cycle over again so you could stay fat, ignorant and stupid.  Now you see another contender on the horizon and you know that is not going to work out for you.  Your blood sweat and tears are worth no more than any other Bitcoiner in Timbuktu.

American exceptionalism..... SEE YA!!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 04:06 | 4216801 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Listen dipshit, this libertarian comes from a culture that's been around for a couple thousand years. I've personally gone through a state collapse, a hyperinflation and two civil wars and out of experience I know that if it looks like a turd and smells like a turd then it definitely is a turd.

Your "another contender on the horizon" is the MacGuyver du jour, luring profit-chasers into a get-rich quick scheme in the present ZIRP world. In my vocabulary this game's called Ponzi. It's good while it lasts and those who've gone in first usually skim fat profits, but at the end it always ends in tears for a vast majority of bagholders (approx. 95%).

I have no idea of your agenda here on ZH; the burden of proof lies on you to show that you are not just another of CIA/NSAs sock puppets pushing for cashless (and fully traceable) society and distracting people from the only real anarcho-capitalist currencies out there - gold and silver.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 04:17 | 4216807 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture


Although BTC, or an alternative, may have the possibility of replacing the FRN, it is too much like the FRN in that it is based on nothing but CONfidence; nothing backs it.

Whereas most ZHer's who have invested/stored weath in PM's have also invested time in researching HISTORY and Fiat Currencies and learned that "money" and "currency" are different.

Money backed by/or is Au/Ag is real - Currency printed out of nothing but CONfidence lasts not long. Please refer to Mike Maloneys 1st video at

Truly, the greatest investment you can make is in your own knowledge.

Please also see

for one of the best of Mike Maloneys lessons on money.

Best to you.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:04 | 4216445 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

What if the NSA did have a hand in it? What if they are pulling a grand switch to trick everyone into thinking BTC is beyond their control but it really isn't? The ultimate kill switch?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:42 | 4216574 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You know, when the dollar collapses all bets are off.  It is very hard for a government to maintain control of its own self let alone all the people and random variables in that chaotic situation.  Now consider Iraq, Afghanistan and all the moves to maintain dollar hegemony.  Then ask yourself why they would voluntarily sacrifice that?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:42 | 4216906 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




You know, when the dollar collapses all bets are off.


Should be able to buy the entire farmers market with a single bitcoin if that happens....unless someone gets there first with an ounce of gold.


Dirt farmers might be stupid....but they don't take air as payment...they need CO2 for their plants to grow.

Bring Al Gore and maybe you can work out a deal.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:03 | 4216934 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Silver and Bitcoin.  Did our message ever change?

Silver For The People

The Bitcoin Channel

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:09 | 4216945 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



So if I just hold silver.....I'm assuming you're going to be fine with that?



Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:33 | 4216910 Confused
Confused's picture

Lets suppose for a minute that the end game is global control of the populace. Sounds very Orwellian, right? But when one considers the State reaction across the globe to peoples protesting, surveilance programs that (while not in and of itself a surprise) seem to have the cooperation of ALL states, it would appear that it IS in fact possible that this is an underhanded opportunity to CONTROL a revolution. Give the people a "government free" currency. Which in turn would allow for further tracking and control. If something like the EU (as well as EU bonds linking various "free" states) and other similar proposals are something akin to a one world government, wouldn't a one world currency be needed as well? And what better way to introduce it as a peoples revolution?


I'm certain that those "in the know" do not give a shit about the dollar as it exists. Only as it will exist going forward. And I'm fairly sure the same could have been said for all the people of power, in all countries throughout history, whose currencies have collapsed. They undoubtedly came out unharmed. 


I do not proclaim to know one way or another. But I know to remain skeptical of everything. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:07 | 4216938 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Crypto-currencies are an idea.  Bitcoin is just one iteration.  100 others already exist.  Get it?

Silver For The People

The Bitcoin Channel

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:11 | 4216466 Frickenkrap
Frickenkrap's picture

...because the govt men want to steal your money more effectively.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:45 | 4216584 fonestar
fonestar's picture

So the government will destroy itself to get more tax revenue?  Hmmm... might want to think about that one.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:44 | 4216585 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

If you want to take over a country you take control of the ability to issue or create money or currency.  That doesn't work on a world wide scale when you use a national currency.  An neutral electronic currency might overcome that hurdle as well as traceability

How's this for a conspiracy?  Say all the miners and wallets and whatever else programs need to run to keep the bitcoin system going also eventually begin to process data for the NSA so they can use the network you were a part of to track you and monitor you.  Sure there's a lot of unexplained complexity there but look at what we do know the NSA is capable of and has already done.  It's no stretch. 

The risks of anything other than a brief small money gamble (too late for any small timers to do anything even if it does skyrocket again) means there are too many potential devastating disasters to rely on it.

It ain't real.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:07 | 4216943 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Ever heard of open source?  Try again.

Silver For The People

The Bitcoin Channel

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:15 | 4216488 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Luckily you can still get free bitcoins at

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:27 | 4216675 fonestar
fonestar's picture

link blocked due to infection by Mal/HTMLGen-A

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:49 | 4216924 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Just disable your anti-virus........and go get that loot.


Just invoke a format c: /q at the command line when you're done and everything should be fine.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:00 | 4218516 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Hey fonestar, grandpa knew how to spell "antivirus", lol

He must be getting spoon-fed by the college intern, not like gold geezer knows jack about computers.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:51 | 4215841 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yeah we've heard all your FUD which still amounts to nothing!!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:51 | 4215842 Bennie Noakes
Bennie Noakes's picture

Satoshi Nakamoto (whoever he is) probably has a huge stash (millions?) of Bitcoins. So the last thing he would want to do is to destroy the value of Bitcoins by suing people who use them. Also, the wise men who run the nonprofit Bitcoin organization probably have huge stashes of Bitcoins as well. So although the Bitcoin organization might be non-profit, the people who are running it probably stand to profit mightily if Bitcoins continue to surge.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:21 | 4215937 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Dude, you do realize that you can see large concentrations of BTC right?  The largest holders of bitcoin own about the same amount of it as the largest central banks own gold.  If I had a choice between the people who tend to run central banks and the people who tend to by cryptoanarchists as to who will be the richest in the world, I will take the latter every time.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:44 | 4216003 Bennie Noakes
Bennie Noakes's picture

Dude, you do realize that BTC wallets can be created almost effortlessly and that BTC from single wallet can easily be transferred into multiple wallets?

People say "Bitcoin can't be a Ponzi scheme because there is no Ponzi. It's all run by a benevolent and altruistic nonprofit organization." But I think the people running and promoting it probably have a huge economic stake in it.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:27 | 4216521 raeb
raeb's picture

One major difference with gold and bitcoin, gold is taxed and bitcoin is not.  This is HUGE!!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:35 | 4216684 itchy166
itchy166's picture

And just try and "bail-in" those who hold Bitcoin...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:57 | 4216054 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

I think people liked you better when you talked about silver at ZH. But that was before the huge raids and crippling technical damage done to the market. Its been a shitshow ever since and you should come clean here if expect people to give your opinion some weight and respect.

Sadly tmos, that asshole bob dabolina was correct and we we're wrong (for now anyway). No offense, but I will take a pass in regard to BTC and its origins, thank you.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:58 | 4216068 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

hey BOP do you still talk to Mr. Lennon Hendrix? Is he still around?

I would love to buy some ASE by the way but I can't find any for less than $24

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:45 | 4216198 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

No, he was banned here (much like myself at Turds). Last I talked to him he quit his job in OR, was moving to CA and starting something new.

If I hear from him, I will let you know.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:59 | 4216208 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

wish him well if you do. He is a good dude. Tell him to get his head out of his ass and stay away from California.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:57 | 4216422 jomama
jomama's picture

how do you get banned at ZH...?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:08 | 4216461 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

prolly by getting to close to the truth.....

ask Mako, trav777, bank guy in brussells, otto and of course f-sawyer

btw, bank guy ib brussells had an EPIC comment/post a few months back and now he is banned...........go figure

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:30 | 4216532 putaipan
putaipan's picture

francis sawyer reminds me of fonestar.... but 'bank guy from brussells'? !!!!!  wtf.  soon to be toast-ipan.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:31 | 4216536 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

not hard..  many of us old timers got warned....   i dont give a damn how the world works anymore since btc pisses on it all right now

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 02:05 | 4216711 johny2
johny2's picture

censor has made ZH much less important site. The freedom of the speech is the number 1. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:02 | 4216933 new game
new game's picture

realizing that every, every fucking man or woman sucks balls-that includes you tyler.

nothing personel, unless you take it that way. reason you would is you are trying to

control "something" - suck on. final logoff - gone galt..

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:53 | 4215848 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

thanks for the clarifications and sourcing on this subject. i was called to order for suggesting the same a few days ago by the "believers" on this site. 



Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:57 | 4215859 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Gary North?  Please....

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:30 | 4215963 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Fonestar? Please...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:38 | 4215987 dryam
dryam's picture


When you have nothing new to contribute shut the fuck up.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:33 | 4216356 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I've helped people get set up on, given advice and pointers.  And you have contributed what exactly on the subject of Bitcoin?  Oh right.... NOTHING!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:03 | 4216436 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Poor sad clown face.

(lol ... stfu)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:01 | 4218522 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture


Says the ZH troll that barks like a seal when Bitcoin is mentioned. LOL. You're a quite a card.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:33 | 4215978 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

#Bitcoin 60% held by 100. 65% never traded, 21% used in gambling, 1 owns 25%. 500k users. 100% trackable. NSA hashtag protocol

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:41 | 4216000 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Wrong.  20% BTC held by 100.  What's the concentration at the top of gold and USD?  Which one do you support?

If not trading BTC is a problem, how often should I be trading my gold?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:03 | 4216084 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

When I woke up about Gold my thoughts were, and still are...


I wish people would start using and trading in Gold and Silver immediately, if not sooner.


So far I've paid a guy that works for me once with Gold. I would do more commerce with Gold but I can't do it alone. I need others willing to trade in Gold as well.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:34 | 4216130 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Agreed, and this is an age old problem.  It is why a gold-backed currency was initially developed, because trading paper notes is much easier and divisible than bullion.  Then the gold-backing to notes was harshly broken and other-wise lost all trust.  Then the internet came along...

As BTC increases in price transaction fees, as they are currently calculated, will become a burden.  For small transactions, at 10oz AU = 1BTC I estimate it will be just as cheap to ship physical gold as to send BTC, if one can stomach the time diffrential.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:55 | 4216701 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

The size of the bitcoin transaction fee is set by each person in his or her own wallet client software. There is no set fee determined by the bitcoin protocol. Most wallet software has default settings for the fee, but it can be changed at will. As the value of bitcoin against fiat goes up, that transaction value will go down.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 02:01 | 4216709 Matt
Matt's picture

If the transaction is large enough, or if the coins have sat in one place long enough, there is no fee. The transaction fee formula is pretty strange, in my opinion:

Transaction priority is calculated as a value-weighted sum of input age, divided by transaction size in bytes:

priority = sum(input_value_in_base_units * input_age)/size_in_bytes from
Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:04 | 4216091 Bennie Noakes
Bennie Noakes's picture

Well the problem is that most gold is probably held by someone who paid at least a few hundred dollars an ounce for it. So if I want to sell my gold, I'll probably be able to find someone else to buy it for a good price. Gold is used for jewelry, so even if the price goes down and gold speculators exit the market, there is still an intrinsic demand for gold jewelry.

If most of the BTC in existence were acquired at a cost of a few pennies or a few dollars, one wonders what will happen when the people who hold those early BTC decide to sell. Will there be enough buyers for them to get hundreds or thousands of dollars/BTC? Particularly when most of the BTC sold for more than that were sold to speculators who only bought it in hopes of making a quick profit. BTC cannot be used for jewelry. So who will buy it when the speculators decide to exit?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:29 | 4216148 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Why I suppose that all depends on how strong and deep the market becomes.  

While there is "intrinsic" demand for bling there is also a supply of used jewelry.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:36 | 4216556 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

such a fallacy..  btc 'intrinsicness' exists where it exists.. on the internet.   Try to pass physical gold over the internet


but please just ignore the digital age..  it is just a fad era

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:04 | 4218529 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Go back to the farm, Yardfarmer. You know that thing you actually UNDERSTAND. (Bitcoin isn't one of them, natch.)

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:52 | 4216405 jomama
jomama's picture

stil waiting patiently for your publication.  or anything intelligent, really.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:58 | 4216069 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Have you read any of those NSA papers on crypto currencies? The ones I read all hinged on the assumption that crypto currencies would be mediated and controlled by a central bank.

BitCoin represents the exact opposite point of view-- banks are entirely cut out of the system.

Do you honestly think the NSA would promote such a system? If you do, then you have a pitiful understanding of who, exactly, are the residual owners of the NSA.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:46 | 4216396 fonestar
fonestar's picture

That's exactly it Buckaroo.  I've been trying to force some of these trolls to give me a straight answer on that for months now.  All I get is deflection and an endless digression of increasingly stupid "what if" scenarios.

So Buckaroo and myself are still here asking a simple question, why is the NSA so eager to end it's own free gravy train?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:00 | 4216428 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

Fone - if btc goes tits up and becomes globally invalid - who can I go to to get my money back? Honest question.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:29 | 4216534 Saro
Saro's picture

Nowhere.  Invest with understanding and care.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:14 | 4216663 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You can't go anywhere.  Who cares, we are pirates of destiny!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:13 | 4216477 deeznutz
deeznutz's picture

That might be him, hoever, Dr. Okamoto is certainly not NSA as he is not a US Citizen.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:58 | 4216616 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Kobayashi: Mr. Redfoot knew nothing. Mr. Soze rarely works with the same people for very long, and they never know who they're working for. One cannot be betrayed if one has no people.
Fenster: So why are you telling us?
Kobayashi: Because you have stolen from Mr.Soze, Mr Fenster. All of you. That you did not know you stole from him is the only reason you are still alive. He feels you owe him. You will repay your debt.
Hockney: All right, fuck the debt. And fuck you! How do we know you work for Soze?
Kobayashi: I don't think that is very relevant, Mr Hockney. All five of you are responsible for the murder of Saul Berg and his bodyguards. Mr. Redfoot can testify to your involvement, and we can see to it that he will.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:11 | 4216950 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

NSA; the only part of the government that listens.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:54 | 4218494 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Occidental Moron

Yes, we're quite familiar with the drum-banging sound of your favorite conspiracy theory. You may want to rewrite it a bit though, since you basically copied a bunch of URLs about cryptography and attributed them to someone who is anonymous.

But why let pesky "facts" get in the way of your tinfoil-fueled dreams, eh?

Its amazing the lengths you fools will go to discredit Bitcoin and the principles upon which is operates. Like any of you can even understand cryptology, much less spell the fucking thing.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:15 | 4216295 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

During gas station robbery, Owner ( cashier) must pay quietly because robber is backed by the "GUN".

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:02 | 4216388 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Hey, Greenscum, BTC is backed by whatever was used to create, and buy/sell it.  E.g....


1. Mining costs of Capital + Labor + Energy (PC costs, IT Labor + Watts of Electricity)

2. A basket of fiat currencies from the Fed and other CBs you have circle-jerks with (USD, CAD, CHF, CNY, EUR, GBP, JPY...).  Hey, that sounds a lot like the "SDR" from the IMF, except that it comes from the FREE peer-to-peer economy.

3. Goods and Services from the free market economy.  There may be some 'manipulation' going on during some "services" of a personal nature, but not from your circle of CBs.  "Goods" may include Gold, as there are indeed people who buy/sell back and forth between Gold and BTC.  / No BIS (Bank of Israeli Surveillance) is required. /sarc

And what exactly is the Fed's QE ($100B/mo) backed by?  Your "opinion" is irrelevant and falls on deaf ears.  Sell your BS elsewhere, or to Andrea Mitchell -- who will "lap it up", no doubt.

p.s. By what and whom are YOU backed by, given that you have not been prosecuted and executed for high treason?


Thu, 12/05/2013 - 02:19 | 4216717 scrappy
scrappy's picture

 They keep playing the same old tired game, now bitcoin and litecoin \Overalued twitt etc. as a way to make a quick buck on some suckers back.


This system sucks.


Triage future leaders until "we get a hold of OUR MONEY"


Wise triage,we can-do better than gov.


But we can bring them around or they are FIRED!





Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:31 | 4215782 knukles
knukles's picture

For any of you dumb-fucks who red arrowed my preceeding comment that Bitcoin is backed by the Non-full fiath and credit of the US, that's the reason why it's valuable.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:25 | 4215950 putaipan
putaipan's picture

so many points, so little time ....

greenspan disses btc- through the roof tonight.

satoshi identity revealed- sources please.

fonestar- please just shut the fuck up for a week or two

bill still and quark coin: this one is fully mined already and owned. wtf is he thinking?

keiser's "ice-coin" actually sounds like one of the better ideas out there.

ron paul acts skeered, faith faulters ...

and speaking of- i thought our fiats were backed with the bonds issued against our birth certificates


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:31 | 4215972 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 and speaking of- i thought our fiats were backed with the bonds issued against our birth certificates

No, our fiats are backed by the fact that the 'leaders' of a bunch of police states in MENA insist on USD for oil purchases... in exchange for tenure of their satrapies.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:35 | 4216358 sleigher
sleigher's picture

No he has it right.  "In 1944, under the Bretton Woods Agreement, Corp. U.S. is quit claimed to the International Monetary Fund, and becomes a foreign controlled private corporation."  This is only part of the game really....

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:37 | 4216987 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"greenspan disses btc- through the roof tonight."

Hm, that may've been true at the time of your typing, but at the time of this comment, BTC is through the floor!




But at the time of typing this line, BTC is up $70 since I started this reply!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:27 | 4215957 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

My cat poop is also backed by the non-full faith and credit of the US. Would you care to trade some of your dollars for it?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:00 | 4216075 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Knuks, I might phrase it slightly differently: BitCoin is backed by the full LACK of faith in the US govt.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:53 | 4216227 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

That is much better stated. But we know where Knuckles stands. He should not have been disrespected for his failure of prose.


+100 to you.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 02:42 | 4216743 Idiocracy
Idiocracy's picture

bitcoin is backed by: 1) its cryptographic integrity, which irrevocably limits the issuance amount; 2) the frictionless payments network and public registry of the blockchain, which (in my view) is a historic innovation.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:29 | 4215776 ThaBigPerm
ThaBigPerm's picture

USDs (FRNs, actually) are actually "backed" by legal tender laws, forcing debts to be repaid in FRNs, therefore creating "demand".  The taxes, also paid in FRNs, are (ostensibly) used to settle debt at maturity and pay interest.  So the whole thing is a recursive loop enforced by ... well, force.  The issuer of FRNs will not redeem FRNs for anything other than a replacement FRN.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:42 | 4215806 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

So we, the USA, back our shit paper with...'force'.  Does that 'force' get paid in said shit paper?  If so, what happens when they want compensation in something else?  Japan paid for Nanjing in pussy.  Okinawa too.  What about Texas?  


All joking aside, what happens when people no longer abide by 'legal tender laws' and resort to the age old art of barter?  Enforcing the law requires force, but only as long as there is not an equal or greater force of resistance. (ref ACA, aka Obamacare.)    




Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:44 | 4215822 max2205
max2205's picture

I wouldn't piss on Alan if he was on fire

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:58 | 4215865 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I'd actually PAY to see each and every Federal reserve member literally ON FIRE!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:01 | 4215882 BadDog
BadDog's picture

I would

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:11 | 4216104 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

No-Faith in Fiat



What is Bitcoin backed by ?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:02 | 4215885 Spigot
Spigot's picture

Yes, a certain waste of urine.

It's kind of funny. If BTC is really and truly a nothing, then why are these guys talking about it. Someone's panties getting twisted up? Rumblings in the monied herd? THEY DON'T HAVE ANY?? They want more than they have before they tell the herd?? Now that it's going to be going past gold per BTC in fiat terms ... Oh Shit! That will be a milestone, hey?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:05 | 4215891 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

he's like 'Don't buy bitcoin, it's in a bubble!  Buy least it has intrinsic value!"  

What he means is "We can control (paper) Gold!  Don't buy something we can't control!"


Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:10 | 4216467 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

But you may wish to piss on him after the fire has been put out.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:53 | 4216225 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I have a slightly different theory of money and I might like to write a thesis on it one day. What I assert is that money at it's core is a receipt for work. Gold, dollars, seashells are simply a representation and accounting for the value of your work.

Without going into detail consider this one thought: If money, say dollars is a receipt for work when you earn 500 of them you get to trade straight up for someone else's $500 receipts. Perhaps you have to work three days to earn that much and you trade it for one hours of a doctor's time, but the receipts must always be even. When the government prints these receipts and there is actually no work done to back them, then you realize the full immorality and the theft that is involved. It is, in fact counterfeiting.

That is why Bitcoins can actually make sense. If Bitcoin is a proper and controlled receipt for work you can trade them at will. In fact, if you know dollars are being used to counterfeit work then bitcoin becomes a more attractive alternative.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:30 | 4216350 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

As work and energy are synonyms, in the study of Physics, I will agree. The value of Gold is representative of the energy expended to extract it from the Earth and refine it. That is one reason that it makes sense to have its value coupled with the value of other's labor.


Again it takes energy to extract Bitcoin as they are "mined". Furthermore there is a limited supply. Finally the amount of Bitcoins was not subject to manipulation in the Futures Market.


Unfortunately that has been changed. Max Keiser recently had a guest who is setting up such a Market for Commercial Traders not available to the General Public.


Thus Bitcoin is going to fall to the same manipulative schemes as Naked Short Selling as Gold has.


The Central Banks have already schemed to manipulate Bitcoin's price and are actively taking the steps to reign it under their control.


It was fun while it lasted.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:41 | 4216568 Zero-risk bias
Zero-risk bias's picture

"It was fun while it lasted."

I respect how Max Keiser puts his money where his mouth is, and pretty much have called most market moves before they have happened. He and Stacy don't take sides, they just present information, and without making many claims. That's how TV should work.

Maybe you're right.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 04:04 | 4216800 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Yeah. I like Max Keiser. Just as they create Paper Gold for Gold that does not exist they will create Paper Bitcoin for Bitcoin that does not exist.


That is why the Frauds on Wall Street are not too concerned about it. They have already figured out a way of fraud through using it. The game is rigged once it is restricted to large Commericials on the Futures Trade.


It will be more difficult to expose a Fraud as Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency and nobody knows who owns what.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:19 | 4216957 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

A Bitcoin derivative would only work if there were enough real Bitcoins on deposit at the sponsor and could easily blow up.  The proposition is actually much more difficult to implement than you imply.

Silver For The People

The Bitcoin Channel

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:02 | 4216261 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

... until such a fiat state goes bankrupt. That never happened in history. /sarc off

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:25 | 4216329 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Domestically, it is backed (more like selected or fixed in the genetic sense) by the threat of force with the income tax. Internationally, it is backed by the threat of force over selling oil for dollars. It is backed by the threat of force. It is blood money.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:02 | 4216632 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

Like all reserve currency's, past and present, the USD is backed by its military power, and willingness to crush all competitors.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:47 | 4215827 BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

I'm not sure he is alive. Maybe he died of a heart attack 5 years ago and the TPTB have pulled a Weekend at Bernie's with the great maestro because they just couldn't find a human being alive that could bullshit as well. I mean Bernanke is good at deceiving himself, don't get me wrong, but just not as incomprehesibly good as Greenspan. I'm sure bits of flesh keep falling off after each public appearence and it's glued back with a mixture of paper mache and foundation. As time goes on though they are finding it more and more difficult to sync the movement of the lips with the pre-recorded sound. One day his bottom lip is just going to fall off, followed by an ear, an eye ball, skin, nose, hair until there is a comical skull with a rod inserted where the brain stem goes trying to keep up with the dialogue. Then a freak accident will have the desk fall down and show a Rothschild laying on the floor controlling the rods connected to the head and hands. 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:02 | 4216080 Aknownymouse
Aknownymouse's picture

!!! His wife is 40 years younger than him!!!

Boy. Well that's a bubble right there

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:54 | 4216230 Black Swan 9
Black Swan 9's picture

@ Leonardo Fibonacci2

Andrea Mitchell is 67; Alan Greenspan is 87.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:13 | 4216481 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Will Greenspan, Kissinger and Murdock never fucking die?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:42 | 4216571 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

mind your lizard betters!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:54 | 4216413 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

That is not his wife - that is his designated gargoyle.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:17 | 4215709 negative rates
negative rates's picture

It's backed by the full faith and credit of the internet, I heard it on the internet so it must be true. They can't print anything on the internet that isn't true, I heard that on the internet.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:55 | 4215738 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

There's mathematically-backed/limited Bitcoin vs. greatest-debtor-nation-in-world-history-backed/unlimited Shitcoin.

Place your bets.

As for Sir Alan, he's brain-dead, given all the cognative dissonance stemming from his sellout after writing "Gold and Economic Freedom" back when he was a lowly but principled commoner:

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:08 | 4216103 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Yeah I hear ya man. But I just don't know. Am I able to hold math in my hand?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:39 | 4216175 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Do you have money in a bank, backed by this?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:40 | 4216181 StillSilence
StillSilence's picture

Trust your instinct...million in gold or a million in btc and you have to ride it out for 5 years....what's your call?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:08 | 4216277 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Balance all three — fiat, precious, and crypto — with the understanding that we're riding a wave of unprecedented global transformation and that fiat — and the entire system it perpetuates — will either be history or we all will.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:38 | 4216375 StillSilence
StillSilence's picture

Well fiat could go extinct without humans doing the same. Money based on real goods and service production ( nothing simpler than PM so will win, again) and the incorporation of technology to allow transfer of real redeemable funds for anyone with an account and computer.

Could base a currency on cars or oil or whatever, but it's tough for most to redeem or store or trade outside that specific currency system. Again PM is the only true option to allow anyone to transact (and save) inside or outside that currency system.

Of course honest and trustworthy banking would be needed to keep it fair, but (like anything) if enough people truly got behind it, it would happen.

Limit government and make spending fully transparent. Free market everything and expose and deter any theft or physical harm to the max. Honest military and police will result IMO.

Can dream, can't i?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:28 | 4216526 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

It's more than a dream. It's a dream coming true:

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:42 | 4216576 putaipan
putaipan's picture

can i sell the million in btc in two? and ride the rest of the three out in gold? you can keep yer still-coins.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:16 | 4216667 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

You obviously didn't watch the video.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 10:02 | 4217290 putaipan
putaipan's picture

i have now. good viddie.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 02:00 | 4216706 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Peter Schiff: So, will Central Banks start backing their currencies with Bitcoin?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 07:25 | 4216958 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Silver Bullion. Every Time. Smaller standing supply. Tiny Market. Could be run up, or "cornered" by a couple of wealthy families in Europe that decided to work together; at any moment. Other than that; it's just "the other precious metal".

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:03 | 4216266 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

no, but I can hold a fart in my hand.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:20 | 4215725 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

"If the USA can print it's own 'currency', why does it need to collect taxes?"

Because taxes at the federal level are about control. "The government says to the citizen: Your earnings are not exclusively your own; we have a claim on them, and our claim precedes yours; we will allow you to keep some of it, because we recognize your need, not your right; but whatever we grant you for yourself is for us to decide.” –Frank Chodorov, The Income Tax: Root of All Evil, Chapter 3


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