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This Is How The NSA Is Tracking You This Instant

Tyler Durden's picture


That little "entertaining" cell phone in your back pocket, which you are so addicted to thanks to all its apps, videos, messaging function and all other cool bells and whistles, that you can't possibly live without? It is simply the definitive NSA tracking beacon used to find where you are at any given moment. The following infographic explains how the NSA does just that...

Source: WaPo


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Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:03 | 4215216 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

And with Bitcoin

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:05 | 4215225 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Prove it loser.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:18 | 4215264 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

In 1989 the NSA released cryptography hash MD2, but it was found to have a mathematical backdoor.

So in 1990 the NSA released cryptography hash MD4, but it was found to have a mathematical backdoor.

Following this revelation in 1992 the NSA released cryptography hash MD5, but by 1996 it was found to have a mathematical backdoor.

SHA-0 was published by the NSA in 1993, but was shortly withdrawn as it was found to have a significant flaw.

SHA-1 was published by the NSA in 1995, and was used by everyone until 2010 when it transpired a weakness in the hash had been the subject of various attacks since 2005.


The latest NSA published cryptography hash is SHA-2, which is what Bitcoin is based on.


Good luck with that.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:19 | 4215276 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am well aware of the intelligence agencies envolvement in cryptography.  The British were using it years before RSA went public with it.  All of the cryptography implemented in Bitcoin is open source as well.

More FUD, try harder.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:22 | 4215292 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

MD2 was open source.

MD4 was open source.

MD5 was open source

SHA-0 was open source.

SHA-1 was open source.


SHA-2 is open source.


Bitcoin is built on SHA-2, the 6th generation of published NSA cryptology hash's, all of the previous 5 generations were open source and all were eventually discovered to contain unpublicised mathematical backdoors.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:26 | 4215315 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Thats nothing, They are physically watching and recording everyone at all times very soon.

ARGUS - video record an entire city.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:28 | 4215326 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Greenspan said this today:


Wonder how BTC will trade tomorrow?


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:39 | 4215375 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Do you know what they call people who run around screaming because they have suspicions and no facts? 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:25 | 4215541 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Err... fonestars?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:46 | 4215824 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:14 | 4215916 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

max kaiser had some guests on his programs and they said that everything will be bitcoin and so that pretty much wraps things up 


Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:06 | 4216451 markmotive
markmotive's picture

The NSA is watching you. You're not a criminal so you don't think it matters. Well, as Stalin’s notorious chief of secret police famously said, "Show me the man and I will find the crime".

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:41 | 4216570 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

WaPo had very good article that is more compelling than this graphic.  Don't miss it.


Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:47 | 4216871 gold-is-not-dead
gold-is-not-dead's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:52 | 4215849 knukles
knukles's picture

Yes, fonestars!
By golly, a new term for the UrbanDictionary!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:57 | 4215866 RideTheWalrus
RideTheWalrus's picture

Kanye West?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:26 | 4215543 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

All of this chatter about bitcoin, NSA, hash this, hash that, is meaningless as long as bitcoin keeps getting more expensive to own.


That is all that matters.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:38 | 4215590 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Who cares how expensive it is to own? That's irrelevant.

The market is completely illiquid.

If you own a lot of Bitcoins you cannot liquidate them without crashing their value. The price is a distraction.

All that matters is that they gain acceptance and that criminals and terrorists and tax evaders see fit to use them. That way the NSA can finally connect all the dots.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:47 | 4215619 Killer the Buzzard
Killer the Buzzard's picture

Ever notice how a lot of the new phones have non-removable batteries?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:57 | 4215643 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

At least a jealous wife or girlfriend is good for an occasional roll in the hay or a BJ ... these F'ers are simply a black hole of need to know.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:42 | 4215820 koperniuk666
koperniuk666's picture

thats because you cant tun them off.... yep you think you do cos the screen is dead but  nope


its on......

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:21 | 4215933 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

It it's wrapped in aluminum foil, its off.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:40 | 4215997 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Exactly. You don't need a removable battery. Just some common, household aluminum foil.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:15 | 4216293 Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

What do I do for a hat if I wrap it around my phone?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:02 | 4216437 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Buy, like, a bulk pack from costco or something. Its a precious metal investment.

Aluminium bitchez!!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:05 | 4216448 24KGOLD FOIL HAT
24KGOLD FOIL HAT's picture

I resemble  that remark

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:54 | 4216606 Bro of the Sorr...
Bro of the Sorrowful Figure's picture

farraday cage. boom problem solved.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:16 | 4216856 Seer
Seer's picture

And be sure you know how to deal with foil properly...

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:33 | 4216542 zuuma
zuuma's picture

just save a mylar wrapper from some pc part-- like a hard drive.

drop your fone in there if you want to put it in solitary confinement.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:25 | 4215752 fonestar
fonestar's picture

All you've shown me so far is an idiotic quest to go further and further down the rabbit hole of "what if" scenarios to try and explain why the NSA and other agencies would willingly destroy the free lunch they enjoy under dollar hegemony.

At least it's amusing.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:49 | 4215835 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Well if you still believe all that shite you just posted you will be able to exercise some self discipline and NOT click on this link showing a picture of Satoshi Nakamoto AKA Dr. Tatsuaki Okamoto.

Oh dear you are going to click on it... Your belief system is crumbling.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:09 | 4215898 fonestar
fonestar's picture

OH NO!!!

He found a picture of a Japanese cryptographer!!



Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:03 | 4216442 WOAR
WOAR's picture

He worked at Bell Labs in the 90's?

Oh my. I don't know what that means, but I'm sure if I dug a little deeper, I would be re-assured that the wrenching feeling in my gut is justified.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:32 | 4216679 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

What is the "Malleus Malificarum"?  (What do I win?)

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:41 | 4215382 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And why not it is just them sniping back at the same people calling his precious stock market a bubble.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:37 | 4215574 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Wasn't that Greenspan's job to create bubbles? Here we go.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:57 | 4215649 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

IOW, Greenspan blows!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:25 | 4216517 Manthong
Manthong's picture

All of this exuberant irrationality is getting tiresome. 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:24 | 4216136 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

I'm much more concerend about the high-tech NSA hookers who always seem to know EXACTLY how much cash is in my pocket.....damn them to hell!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:02 | 4216630 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Note to self - Always carry an umbrella.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:29 | 4215334 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am still offering 1oz gold maple to anyone who can prove NSA envolvement in Bitcoin's creation.  There is no reason to believe this when the NSA went and infiltrated western technology companies to deliberately weaken their crypto.  The crypto you mentioned before were found to contain weaknesses, not backdoors.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:40 | 4215377 Gen. Keith Alexander
Gen. Keith Alexander's picture

It is true that we have nothing to do with Bitcoin.

The rest of it... well, we have a job to do.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:02 | 4215939 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture



...the objective is to develop a 3D urban recognition and exploitation system...a network of microsensors, creating the ability to map an entire city and activities within it, in all 3D, all the time."

 - source [redacted]

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:41 | 4215379 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

This is what the NSA were doing with your tax dollars in 1996, that's 12 years before Satoshi launched BTC.


Can you tell me how this NSA design differs from BTC? 


Satoshi is a fucking plagiarist.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:53 | 4215420 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Satoshi is not a plagarist and I have said continually that p2p currency has been discussed going back into the 90's!  I rember a guy doing a presentation on it at one of the first DEFCONs!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:23 | 4215532 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture


Satoshi Nakamoto is a pseudonym of the NSA cryptologist Tatsuaki Okamoto who wrote about a dozen papers on digital crypto currencies from 1991 to 1995.


1. Tony Eng and Tatsuaki Okamoto, Single-Term Divisible Electronic Coins, Advances in Cryptology EUROCRYPT '94, Springer-Verlag, pp. 311-323.

2. Tatsuaki Okamoto, An Efficient Divisible Electronic Cash Scheme, Advances in Cryptology - CRYPTO '95, Springer-Verlag, pp. 438-451.

3. Tatsuaki Okamoto and Kazuo Ohta, Universal Electronic Cash, Advances in Cryptology - CRYPTO '91, Springer-Verlag, pp. 324-337.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:46 | 4215622 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Satoshi very well may have been Ex-INT.  CIA/NSA are the biggest employers of cryptographers so it would not surprise me to learn that.  It doesn't discourage me in the least bit from using Bitcoin and would make perfect sense why he wishes to remain anon in that case.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:56 | 4215646 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Okamoto also owns a string of patents which cover Bitcoin and are still valid for another 3-5 years, so he has every right to sue you for triple damages in a US court any time.

How are you only learning about this now??

Electronic cash implementing method using an anonymous public key license (1996)

Electronic cash implementing method with a surveillance institution, and user apparatus and surveillance institution apparatus for implementing the same (1997)

Method and apparatus for implementing hierarchical electronic cash (1997)

Electronic cash implementing method for issuer having electronic cash balance counters, corresponding issuer equipment and recording medium having recorded thereon a program for execution of the method (1998)

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:13 | 4215699 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

I think that is checkmate fonestar

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:17 | 4215712 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Satoshi is going to go to court and sue for a POC that he released under a pseudonym and the BTC clients are GPL?  Good luck!  You guys are fucking braindead.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:22 | 4215742 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

I couldn't give a fuck what he does. That the business of him and the NSA.

There's a paper trail a mile long and it all leads to the NSA (the Mecca of cryptology).

I don't know or care why they did this, but I do know that the NSA is not a fucking charity.

As far as I am concerned BTC is a Trojan and I don't want it anywhere near me. You couldn't pay me to take them.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:55 | 4215855 Apeman
Apeman's picture

Perhaps they consider central banks a national security threat. Would make sense.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:13 | 4215919 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:58 | 4216067 Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:49 | 4216210 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Dead as a fucking door nail.

Discovering that you've been turned over is a very hard lesson.

Lifespan of Bitcoin? Till the patents run out in 3-5 years and then dump, unless of course, someone finds out in the meantime that they own two bitcoins of the same number...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:23 | 4216322 Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

Don't know who minted the things - Mulligan's, maybe, but a 1oz silver "Bitcoin" sold on eBay today for north of 150.00. For the low low price of 28.00, one could buy a copper one...

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but I still believe WC Fields, and a sucker is born every minute. No cryptocurrencies for me until we have achieved interstellar travel at hyperspatial velocities. Precious Metals rock, full stop. Cryptobullshit smells fishy. Go Elon Musk! In the meantime, Fonestar, better hedge your bets.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:03 | 4216631 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

on a long enough timeline, this site will be full of chicken littles

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:56 | 4215858 knukles
knukles's picture

Oh please just shut the fuck up go away or disembowel yourself on YouTube or something constructive.

Go make some friends in a recovery center or something.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:33 | 4216353 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

For someone who calls everyone a moron and go read up on Bitcoin before they spout off, you're clueless. Bitcoin is not GPL


Bitcoin is released under the terms of the MIT license. See COPYING for more information or see


Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:15 | 4216767 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Read my damn post I said the QT client is GPL!!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:31 | 4218356 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Are you fucking retarded:

Bitcoin-Qt is a community-driven free software project, released under the MIT license.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:38 | 4215940 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Okamoto also owns a string of patents which cover Bitcoin and are still valid for another 3-5 years, so he has every right to sue you for triple damages in a US court any time.

Survey says wrong the applicant is who owns the actual patent which is Nippon Telegraph And Telephone Corporation. Secondly the patent application specifically is for transmission between a trustee and bank not for general commerce or transfers. Anyone can bypass that easily by tailoring the application to something not involving a bank directly accepting crypto-currencies to get around the patient. Why do you think the banks won't directly deal with bitcoin... Thirdly and most importantly since bitcoin doesn't violate those patents and based all on opensource no company or bank can play the patent game to shut it down either and that little fact the internet is worldwide patent protection is kind of useless it would be like suing every person who shared mp3s on napster. You saw how that worked out for the music industry.


Lastly and most importantly by writting the patients the way he did he essentially cock blocked the whole banking industry from being able to squash and privatize crypto-currency while it is in it's incubation stage. NSA plant or not if this was in collusion with the banks it wouldn't have been done in this manner.

Nice try.....

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:16 | 4216489 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Makes me wonder if he went "Snowden" on the NSA and took BC with him "for the people".. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:04 | 4216639 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

yeah cause bitcoin just like came out last month or so...  you guys are just full of stupid

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:39 | 4215992 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

handy excuse to a curious coincidence 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:53 | 4216925 uranian
uranian's picture

Having read the MIT paper, it calls for a central bank to control the database in which transactions are recorded. Which is entirely different to Bitcoin, in that the database (blockchain) is totally distributed between all users, you need an updated copy of the blockchain to make any Bitcoin transaction. That paper mentions "bank" over a hundred times; there are no banks involved in the creation and distribution of BTC.



Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:58 | 4215440 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

You might as well link to the following article (a more likely Satoshi influence) from 1995:

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:59 | 4215446 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Satoshi is a fucking plagiarist.

BTW is your statement here meant to convey something meaningful about BTC?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:35 | 4215518 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I guess you miss the bigger prize in bitcoin and crypto-currencies in general for the "intelligence" agencies. By giving people incentive to brute force SHA 256 which is in essence what bitcoin mining is taking a SHA 256 key and working backwards they are compling a database of all keys and decryption solutions that can be easily completely solved later on aka successfully mined coins which if they did on their own they could never do it this fast without providing incentive to the average joe to do it for them. Satoshi and other people involved in setting up the math end most certainly received seed money either directly or indirectly from these agencies and it is pretty easy to see why when it look at from what is important to them which is cracking encryption. By monetizing SHA256 encryption they've given the public sector a reason to crack it and spend money on asics for example just to work on that one problem. They don't even have to budget for it themselves now.

Geez you people don't think do you. You people need to think in the same narrow minded terms of other people and groups instead of just projecting your own narrow minded views of the world when looking at everything. People around here especially the bitcoin haters sound like the old when you only have a hammer every problem looks like a nail reasoning.


Crypto-currency ain't going anywhere since these agencies have enough dirt on Benny 'shalom' and the bankstas along with the politicians that anyone that goes against them who is systematically a threat will be outed and they know it.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:39 | 4215596 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The real potential in the ASIC miners from their perspective is their password cracking potential and finding flaws in SHA256 along with the extra computing power thrown at the problem that would otherwise not be available.

Give people incentive to make alot of money with something they understand and they will have a go at it.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:03 | 4215666 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

If you read the press, you'll see that TPTB are actually embracing bitcoin ... at first I thought it had something to do with extracting value from the millions of $ they netted by closing down Silk Road, but this would not be ZH without a little conspiracy theory, namely that Bitcoin, unllke cash, is very traceable and is therefore quite useful to the purposes of TPTB.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:59 | 4215870 knukles
knukles's picture

If they encourage it, it well fits their plan.

Plus, while the world thinks it's anonymous and secure.....
Guess fucking what?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:29 | 4215961 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I've said it before and I'll say it again for all the short sighted people a crypto-currency standard is ultimately going to be part of the internet delivery protocol itself as the standards are rewritten to reflect the fact the internet is no longer a communication network but distribution network. The encryption is going to be part of the transport layer and the currency address and other object information will be in the internet layer or some variation of whatever new standard ultimately is agreed upon. This will allow countries to block/regulate traffic and money flows a lot easier when the packets are object based with this extra information. It also provides businesses with copyright and other intelectual property protection in this manner. That is going to be general direction as things evolve.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:14 | 4216291 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

What you describe sounds like a completely ruined and tyrannical internet. That isn't evolution.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:30 | 4216341 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Doesn't everything go that route sooner or later? Unless people evolve also for the better this is how the story will most likely play out like it has over and over so far. But from that something open and freer will rise while the lessons are still fresh, real and tangible in the people's minds. Cat and mouse.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:02 | 4216636 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

To be honest, you really should not blame the criminal acts of uncivil behavior on the people in general when it's being committed against them by a select few of politically connected insiders. It's just disingenuous and dishonest.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:19 | 4216853 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Not to mention free satellite tv when the ASICs run out of coins to mint.  Unintended consequences are a fascinating phenomena.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:34 | 4216865 Seer
Seer's picture

I totally agree.

TPTB always ensure they have control.

"They" had been contemplating a separate "business" Internet, but I think that there's a realization that this might end up being way too costly and difficult.  So, an update to IP might very well be the way...

It just amazes me how people here can understand the failings of "central planning" yet not see that ALL of this is being pushed toward full control/accountability- the Internet belongs to TPTB (all the various "keep the Internet free" stuff was merely another "orange revolution" to keep us addicted to their points of control).

Think of the Internet as an evolved Khyber Pass...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:28 | 4215770 Z_End
Z_End's picture

Bitcoin.. the ultimate in social engineering?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:18 | 4216491 WOAR
WOAR's picture

Wow, that's genius.

People always say "Oh, such and such is so encrypted, it can't be broken!"

If all the solutions have been mapped in advance, it isn't so carrying around a ring of janitors keys, and knowing which key goes where.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:45 | 4215389 superflex
superflex's picture

I'll offer a one ounce Perth Mint bar if you can prove the NSA is not involved in BTC.


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:49 | 4215414 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The burden of proof is on the one making the accusations!

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:04 | 4215459 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

The burden of proof is on the speculator.  Which you would think would be him, but is actually you.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:08 | 4215474 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Nice logic there.  God forbid the "metals only" crew reinterpret the laws and.... oh wait, they're not "tangible" anyway.  Nevermind.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:20 | 4215514 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

It's not logic- it's wordplay.  It's a step beyond logic.  You won't find me defending speculation in any of its forms. 

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:27 | 4215761 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

"The burden of proof is on the one making the accusations!"

Nah, that's the presumption under the old paradigm where individual rights and liberties actually matter ... in the "new normal," the burden of proof is on the slave.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:37 | 4215989 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeah, I was gonna let that one of his sit & ferment for a while.

But you're absolutely right.

For anyone who has ever been charged by the state, they pile so many bullshit charges on you (to make you cop "to something") you have to prove your innocence instead of them proving your guilt of anything.

It is, exactly bassackwards now.

How convenient would it have been, for a prosecutor, in the timeframe of Rodney King, to tell a defense lawyer representing a young client who defended himself from an actual assault & battery, whereby the assailant wound up in the hospital (unconscious, with a fractured skull AS THE VICTIM, of all things) that if the defendant chooses to go to a jury trial (because the real assailant was black)...he will face the additional charge of a hate crime?

Yes, that was me.

I actually had some idiot say "Well, just have one of your black friends vouch for you as not being a racist!" I'm like WTF? Do you want one of my real black buds or one I just pull off the street and pay to say it? What the hell does that even mean in this context? Someone has to have black, yellow, red, brown friends TO PROVE he's not a racist? Isn't there some level of proof anymore, like a sheet hanging in the closet or sumpin?

I almost kicked his nerdy little white-boy ass for breathing the same air as me but it was at the court

Fonestar is an idiot, if anyone ever had any doubt.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:08 | 4216650 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

i think fonestar just likes shooting stupid in a barrel


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:00 | 4215874 knukles
knukles's picture

You sound like Paul Krugman.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:57 | 4215435 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I'll offer a 1 kilo gold bar to anyone who can prove that the NSA isn't secretly controlled by the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:24 | 4215538 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

That picture with the brown thing on the end looks like it came from a large bowl of Colon Blow. 

This entire economy is the Human Centipede. 

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:34 | 4216550 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

I'll give you a plus one for mentioning the term "Colon Blow".

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 17:56 | 4219159 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

That was the SNL commercial they ran right before the tailpipe fresheners right?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:37 | 4215585 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

---Pastafarianism reveres pirates

---NSA does not like pirates

---Flying spaghetti monster wants you to be happy

---NSA wants you dead or in a FEMA camp

---FSM doesn't really care what you think or do

---NSA wants to know what you are thinking and doing


Please PM me for my shipping address

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:57 | 4216060 akak
akak's picture

All hail the one true deity, his Whole(wheat)yness the Flying Spaghetti Monster (meatballs be upon him), and the one true Church of Pastafarianism.

May you be blessed by the touch of His divine noodly appendage.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 23:01 | 4216262 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:49 | 4215626 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

Can you provide a hint on whether the Spaghetti Tree has anything to do with it?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:06 | 4215675 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Your posit is certainly as plausible as the idea that the NSA has no involvement in BTC or the underlying technologies. 

Say does anyone remember over a decade ago when Intel started using a GUID in their CPUs?  If the NSA can inflitrate crypto corps and standards bodies you can bet that if you have Intel inside the intel is going to the NSA.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:20 | 4215726 slyhill
slyhill's picture

Ship it bro! I killed that mofo last week! 4 kilos to anyone that can prove i dint.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:28 | 4215554 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Since you can never prove a negative, that is a fairly safe offer. If you were to offer the bar for the following: "If you can't demonstrate that the hypothesis that the NSA is involved with BTC can be rejected with a 99.9999% significance." you might actually have a real offer. You could modulate the significance according to your paranoia about bitcoin. Personally, I prefer the old style metal ones made of real metal and not Johnson slugs.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:33 | 4215561 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> I am still offering 1oz gold maple to anyone ...

Is this kinda like the Cicada contest? Pretty time consuming for only a Z of gold. No one will take you up on it ... but you look like a sport for sayin' it.

Did they teach you that in propaganda school of the Americas?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 22:52 | 4216228 TX-Mike
TX-Mike's picture

Here is something to ponder...

Assuming a crypto algo does not have a backdoor and must be brute-forced open.  Assume there is a large key hash like Blowfish.  What better way to get many millions of CPUs working on a massively distributed brute-force attack than to offer some sort of "reward" for turning over your spare CPU cycles to busily work away.

That 100 million years of brute-force resistant crypto-algo just became a few years, and as that "reward" gets ever more popular and more and more people pile on their CPUs, it goes to days, then hours.

It would be the most brilliant con-game ever by the 3 letter folks....

Just a theory, but not an impossible one.

I still prefer my PMs because when the EMP comes a knockin, BTC is just bits.....


Thu, 12/05/2013 - 06:01 | 4216881 Seer
Seer's picture

"It would be the most brilliant con-game ever by the 3 letter folks...."

But, but... what IF they were giving out Bitcoin rewards?

Anyone with half a brain can see how this plays out.  "Security threat" forces a back-door to exist "for your protection" against "terrorists."

BTW - EMP is WAY over exaggerated.  Some good info: (yes, grid-based stuff is vulnerable)

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:29 | 4215337 zaphod
zaphod's picture

Bitcoin transaction signing is protected by ECDSA, not SHA256. SHA256 is primarily used to enforce the "prove of work" needed to maintain a distributed ledger. Even if SHA256 has weaknesses, Bitcoins you own are secure unless ECDSA is broken.

ECDSA was not developed by the NSA.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:00 | 4215442 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Also, you can just read on bitcoin's own site, where it says it is not anonymous.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:36 | 4215577 Hundred Dollar Bonus
Hundred Dollar Bonus's picture

ZeroCoin will make bitcoins anonymous.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:39 | 4215592 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It will be nice when we have a "dark phone" as well.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:01 | 4216837 PT
PT's picture

Where can we look at all this open source code?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:24 | 4215313 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

phone star who is the creator of Bitcoin and where is he today why can't we have a discussion with him directly

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:35 | 4215351 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Maybe he doesn't want to be disappeared and killed?  Or perhaps he would just rather have fans like myself field one-million inane accusations of tulip bubbles and definitely maybe EMPs?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:13 | 4215701 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Now suppose your first idea is a real situation for him, or even you.  Would you want to be on the run or hiding and relying on BTC to buy things or Canuckian relics (either being the "IT" currency/money in this scenario)?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:26 | 4215322 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I'm sure not a BitCoin expert, but note it's about mathematical backdoors. you can have open source reviews until Kingdom Comes, as long as a mathematical whiz does not find the backdoor, you think your crypto is safe in the same way the Germans thought that Enigma was safe

note, I'm not saying that the "backdoor" exists, only that open source review does not give you proof

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:27 | 4215323 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Strange how the Tsarnaevs pulled it off in light of the NSA's capabilities detailed in the Post piece, and in light of the fact that the Russians had warned the Feds about them, and the Feds had met with the Tsarnaevs.  Gosh, I almost think the Feds are more interested in tracking/coercing/controlling US citizens than in monitoring/stopping 'foreign intelligence targets'

Do the Feds have a problem with John Doe?  And why?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:00 | 4215443 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The millions of John Does could change the status quo. The Tasarnaevs? Not so much.

Pretty obvious who's the bigger (potential) threat to our beloved overlords.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:21 | 4215527 l.kimbot
l.kimbot's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:32 | 4215564 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Perhaps the older Tsarnaev was considered a CIA asset.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:34 | 4215571 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the "interesting one" so to speak (i'm not really into this stuff with any specificity) is the Ft Hood shooter. be interesting to know if he was having any communications with anyone outside the chain of command and if so what were they and how.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:11 | 4215686 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

There was some sort of legal support direct to his case from DOJ courtesy some sort of "workplace violence outreach effort" program but I didn't take the time to research it.  I did find this article and it's enough to piss any reasonable American off:


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:39 | 4215595 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Tsarnevs = fall out boys.

Check the Saudi Roster.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:20 | 4215733 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

John Doe is a fat, lazy, dumbass who just wants to watch *whatever* and can't be bothered to know who is doing what in his name. 

Epitaph:  It was time to change the channel.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:39 | 4215371 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The Brits used the RSA algorithm, before it was named that, in 1955. It was re-discovered, not passed on, to Rivest, Shamir, Adleman.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:24 | 4215534 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> More FUD, try harder.


Give it up, spook ... everyone here has your -number.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:19 | 4215717 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Good try fonestar, but Occident Moron will keep spewing the same thing over and over.

Maybe he's a "Numbers Station" for the CIA, a simple perl script running on a virtual server instance somwhere in Langley.

What a buffoon.

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 03:42 | 4216787 fonestar
fonestar's picture

What's amazing (or perhaps not) is any dolt can cut and paste any link here, sprinkle on some technical jargon and the idiots will buy it as evidence that the NSA is involved in some nefarious plot with Bitcoin.  Everything we do in computing, networking and cryptography has roots in military and intelligence agencies.  I wish these morons would develop the same fear in their PCs and burn them now!

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:34 | 4216863 zhandax
zhandax's picture

That opening sentence is not helping your argument any...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:21 | 4215288 Groundhog Day
Groundhog Day's picture

I don't know what you said BUT it sounds pretty convincing to me

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:34 | 4215335 1stepcloser
1stepcloser's picture

a bunch of exclusive ORing and taps off the chain with more ORing... Maybe, yes, no ... At least thats what I remember from KG school..  its Been a while...

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:35 | 4215353 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Bitcoin can be hacked at any time right now. It is common knowledge. The power of it's cryptograhpy is the peer to peer confirmation of the chain. Someone would have to out compute more than 50% of the network to override this. I think last time I read somewhere the calculated cost to aquire the neccessary computing hardware is somewhere close $1 billion.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:38 | 4215368 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

And you'd have to get all that hardware set up and running in a very timely fashion. Because the network is growing every day, they'd be trying to run a footrace on a treadmill that is speeding up all the time.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:01 | 4215452 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Or you could use the quantum computer at the NSA on your coffee break.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:22 | 4215530 seek
seek's picture

This has been pretty thoroughly discussed. Even if a quantum computer of such capability existed (and it doesn't, even with the NSA's budget), it reduces the keyspace by half the number of bits in the key (which is truly a massive improvement, inconceivably fast), meaning the NSA might be able to brute force at best a few bitcoin addresses over a hundred years.

I really wish people would get over this NSA is all powerful and they have magic computers myth. Everything they accomplish is pretty much through lying and stealing, not code breaking or superior computing capabilities.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:33 | 4215568 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Sad to see minds converted into paranoid fudge where nothing comes into being without the blessings of NSA and nothing works without the blessings of NSA.  If these people were half as powerful as they claim everyone would already be living in a prison camp.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:18 | 4215724 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You must not fly or cross America's borders much. Americans are already living in a prison camp.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:40 | 4215802 Bunders
Bunders's picture


Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:39 | 4215803 Bunders
Bunders's picture

"Sad to see minds converted into paranoid fudge where nothing comes into being without the blessings of NSA and nothing works without the blessings of NSA.  If these people were half as powerful as they claim everyone would already be living in a prison camp."


What, like Dread Pirate Roberts?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:39 | 4215589 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> ... meaning the NSA might be able to brute force at best a few bitcoin addresses over a hundred years.

Ignore the geometric rate of technology at your own peril.

What would Kurtzweil say?

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:52 | 4215632 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Which leads to all sorts to all sorts of questions, which I will get to in due course (away from my iPhone...)

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:28 | 4215765 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Half of the space shuttle missions were classified DOD ops, and the satellites that provide 2 meter resolution for google maps are leftover scraps from the 60s.  You think the government doesn't have secret technology?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 01:46 | 4216487 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Your point can't be stressed enough. You think the most advanced aircraft they have is the F-35? You think they've unveiled their most advanced computer tech?

What the fuck is wrong with you?


You probably don't believe they can turn on your phone's mic and camera either?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:43 | 4216869 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Military science was taught pass/fail when I was in college, so most of us took it.  They told us then (1978) that we had satellites that could produce images which could detect the brand of golf ball on tee from orbit.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:56 | 4216053 g speed
g speed's picture

seek--and don't forget rats--ratfink informers (aka pieces of shit)

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 18:05 | 4219186 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

My cousin (PHD/Physics) and I developed a quantum camera of sorts.  Every picture we get back from those other universes/worlds that has something in the frame looks like some type of aquatic alien creature.  Freaky shit.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 18:59 | 4215445 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

That the NSA can crack SHA-2 could be tested easily.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 19:18 | 4215510 fonestar
fonestar's picture

And ECDSA?  And every wallet on Earth?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:31 | 4216537 WOAR
WOAR's picture

"In August 2013, it was revealed that bugs in some implementations of the Java class SecureRandom sometimes generated collisions in the k value. As discussed above, this allowed solution of the private key, in turn allowing stealing Bitcoins from the containing wallet on Android app implementations, which are built using Java and rely on ECDSA to authenticate transactions.[8]"

From Wikipedia. ECDSA doesn't matter when you fuck up once with the maths.

Bitcoin is all well and good in a perfect world. This is not a perfect world. Ergo, theft.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:06 | 4215670 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Are they tracking PM's? Or at least the ones that haven't been involved in unfortunate maritime incidents

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 20:18 | 4215715 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Ron Rivest would be interested to know that his MD2, MD4 and MD5 algorithms were released by the NSA...

I'm going to call FUD on this one.

BTW, a collision is not a "mathematical backdoor" as much as a natural evolution of more powerful computer hardware.

Wed, 12/04/2013 - 21:59 | 4216074 tekknik
tekknik's picture

Switch the protocol to a new hash function if SHA-2 is compromised more than it already is. Its as simple as that. Any others?

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 00:21 | 4216498 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Don't pretend you don't wish you had some bitcoins. Get some free:

Thu, 12/05/2013 - 05:56 | 4216877 zhandax
zhandax's picture

You have pumped this site enough that I have to suspect that you have some interest in it?  Eh?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!