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Guest Post: There Is Too Little Gold In The West

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Alasdair Macleod via Peak Prosperity blog,

Western central banks have tried to shake off the constraints of gold for a long time, which have created enormous difficulties for them. They have generally succeeded in managing opinion in the developed nations but been demonstrably unsuccessful in the lesser-developed world, particularly in Asia. It is the growing wealth earned by these nations that has fuelled demand for gold since the late 1960s. There is precious little bullion left in the West today to supply rapidly increasing Asian demand, and it is important to understand how little there is and the dangers this poses for financial stability.

An examination of the facts shows central banks have been on the back foot with respect to Asian gold demand since the emergence of the petrodollar. In the late 1960s, demand for oil began to expand rapidly, with oil pegged at $1.80 per barrel. By 1971 the average price had increased to $2.24, and there is little doubt that the appetite for gold from Middle-Eastern oil exporters was growing; and it should have been clear to President Nixon’s advisers in 1971 that this was a developing problem when he decided to halt the run on the US’s gold reserves by suspending the last vestiges of gold convertibility.

After all, the new arrangement was: America issued the petrodollars to pay for the oil, which were then recycled to Latin America and other countries in the West’s sphere of influence through the American banks. The Arabs knew exactly what was happening and gold was simply their escape route from this dodgy deal.

The run on US gold reserves leading up to the Nixon Shock in August 1971 is blamed by monetary historians on France. But note this important passage from Ferdinand Lips’s book GoldWars:

“Because Arabs did not understand bonds and stocks they invested their surplus funds in either real estate and/or gold. Since Biblical times, gold has been the best means to keep wealth and to transfer it from generation to generation. Gold therefore was the ideal vehicle for them. Furthermore after their oil reserves are exhausted in the distant future, they would still own gold. And gold, contrary to oil, could never be wasted.”

According to Lips, Swiss private bankers to whom many of the newly-enriched Arabs turned recommended a minimum of 10% and even as much as 40% should be held in gold bullion. This advice was wholly in tune with Arab thinking, creating extra demand for America’s gold reserves, some of which was auctioned off in the following years. Furthermore, Arab investors were unlikely to have been deterred by high dollar interest rates in the early eighties, because high interest rates simply compounded their rapidly-growing exposure to dollars.

Using numbers from BP’s Statistical Review and contemporary US Treasury 10-year bond yields to gauge dollar returns, we can estimate gross Arab petrodollar income including interest from 1965 to 2000 to total about $4.5 trillion. Taking average annual gold prices over that period, ten per cent of this would equate to about 50,500 tonnes, which compares with total mine production during those years of 62,750 tonnes, over 90% of which went into jewellery.

This is not to say that 50,000 tonnes were bought by the Arabs: it could only be partly accommodated even if the central banks supplied them gold in very large quantities, of which there is some evidence they did. Instead, it is to ram the point home that the Arabs, awash with printed-for-export petrodollars had good reason to buy all available gold. And importantly it also gives substance to Frank Veneroso’s conclusion in 2002 that official intervention, i.e. undeclared sales of significant quantities of government-owned gold, was effectively being used to manage the price in the face of persistent demand for physical gold as late as the 1990s.

Transition from Arab demand

Arabs trying to invest a portion of their petrodollars would have left for the advanced economies very little investment gold. As it happened, US citizens had been banned from holding bullion until 1974 and British citizens were banned until 1971. Instead they invested mainly in mining shares and Krugerrands, continuing this tradition by using derivatives and unbacked unallocated accounts with bullion banks in preference to bullion itself. This meant that, until the mid-seventies, investment in physical gold in the West was minimal, almost all gold being held in illiquid jewellery form. Western bullion investors were restricted to mainly German, French and Italians, mostly through Swiss banks. The 1970s bull market was therefore an Arab affair, and they will have continued to absorb gold through the subsequent bear market.

By the late-nineties a new generation of Swiss investment managers schooled in modern portfolio theory and less keen on gold, persuaded many of their European clients to reduce and even eliminate bullion holdings. At the same time, a younger generation of Western-educated Arabs began to replace more conservative patriarchs so it is reasonable to assume that Arab demand for gold waned somewhat, as infrastructure spending and investment in equity markets began to provide portfolio diversification. This was therefore a period of transition for bullion, driven by declining western investment sentiment and changing social structures in the Arab world.

It also marked the beginning of accelerating demand in emerging economies, notably India, but also in other countries such as Turkey and those in South-East Asia which were rapidly industrialising. In 1990 the Indian Government freed up the gold market by abolishing the Gold Control Act of 1968, paving the way for Indians to become the largest officially-recognised importers of gold until overtaken by China last year.

Lower prices in the 1990s stimulated demand for jewellery in the advanced economies, with Italy becoming the largest European manufacturing centre. At the same time gold leasing by central banks increased substantially, as bullion banks exploited the differential between gold lease rates and the yield on short-term government debt. This leased gold satisfied jewellery demand as well continuing Asian demand for gold bars.

So, despite the fall in prices between 1997-2000, all supply was absorbed into firm hands. When gold prices bottomed out, Western central banks almost certainly had less gold than publicly stated, the result of managing the price until 1985, and through leasing thereafter. This was the background to the London Bullion Market Association which was founded in 1987.


In 1987 the unallocated account system became formalized under LBMA rules, allowing the bullion banks to issue gold IOUs to their customers, making efficient use of the bullion available. The ability to expand customer business in the gold market without having to acquire physical bullion is the chief characteristic of the LBMA to this day. Futures markets in the US also expanded, and so derivatives and unallocated accounts became central to Western investment in gold. Today the only significant bullion held by Western investors is likely to be a small European residual plus ETF holdings. In total (including ETFs) this probably amounts to no more than a few thousand tonnes.

The LBMA was established in 1987 in the wake of the Financial Services Act in 1986. Prior to that date, the twice-daily gold fix had become the standard pricing mechanism for international dealers, whose ranks grew on the back of the 1970s bull market. This meant that international banks established their bullion dealing activities in London in preference to Zurich which was the investment centre for physical bullion. The establishment of the LBMA was the formalization of an existing gold market, based on the 400 ounce good delivery standard and the operation of both allocated and unallocated accounts.

During the twenty-year bear market attitudes to gold diverged, with capital markets increasingly taking the view that the inflation dragon had been slain and gold’s bull market with it. At the same time Asian demand, initially from the Arab oil exporters, but increasingly from other nations led by Turkey, India and Iran ensured there were buyers for all the physical gold available. Mine supply, which benefited from the introduction of heap-leaching techniques, had increased from 1,314 tonnes in 1980 to 2,137 tonnes in 1990, and 2,625 tonnes by 2000. Together with scrap supply London was in a strong position to intermediate between a substantial increase in gold flows to Asian buyers, and it was from this that central bank leasing naturally developed.

Gold backed by these physical flows was the ideal asset for the carry trade. A bullion bank would lease gold from a central bank, sell the gold and invest the proceeds in short-term government debt. It was profitable for the bullion bank, governments were happy to have the finance, and the lessor was happy to see an idle asset work up some extra income. However, leasing only works so long as the bullion bank can hedge by accessing future supply, so that the lease can eventually be terminated.

Before 2000 this was a growing activity, fuelled further by Swiss portfolio disinvestment in the late 1990s. As is usual in markets with a long-term behavioral trend, competition for this business extended the risks beyond being dangerous. This culminated in a crisis in September 1999, when a 30% jump in the price threatened to bankrupt some of the bullion banks who were in the habit of running short positions.


Bull markets always start with very little mainstream and public involvement, and so it has proved with gold since the start of this century. So let us recap where all the gold was at that time.

  • Total above-ground gold stocks were about 129,000 tonnes, of which 31,800 tonnes were officially monetary gold. Of the balance, approximately 85-90% was turned into jewellery or other wrought forms, leaving only 10-15,000 tonnes invested in bar and coins and allocated for industrial use.
  • Out of a maximum of 15,000 tonnes, coins (mostly krugerrands) accounted for about 1,500 tonnes and other uses (non-recovered industrial and dental) say 1,000 tonnes. This leaves a maximum of 12,500 tonnes and possibly as little as 7,500 tonnes of investment gold worldwide at that time.
  • After Swiss fund managers disposed of most of the bullion held in portfolios for their clients in the late 1990s, there was very little investment gold left in European and American ownership.
  • Frank Veneroso in 2002 concluded after diligent research that central banks had by then supplied between 10-15,000 tonnes of monetary gold into the market. Much of this would have gone into jewellery particularly in Asia but some would have gone to the Middle East. This explains how extra investment gold may have been supplied to satisfy Middle-East demand.
  • Middle-Eastern countries must have been the largest holders of non-monetary gold in bar form at this time. We can see that 10% of petrodollars invested in gold would have totalled over 50,000 tonnes, yet there can only have been between 7,500-12,500 tonnes available in bar form for all investor categories world-wide. This may have been increased somewhat by the addition of monetary gold leased by central banks and acquired through the market.

It was at this point that the second gold bull market commenced against a background of very little liquidity. Investment bullion was tightly held, the central banks were badly short of their declared holdings of monetary gold, and from about 2004 onwards ETFs were to grow to over 1,500 tonnes. Asian demand continued to grow led by India, and China began actively promoting private ownership of gold at about the same time.

Other than through physically-backed ETFs Western investors were encouraged to satisfy their demand for bullion through derivatives and unallocated accounts at the bullion banks. There are no publicly available records detailing the extent of these unallocated accounts, but the point is Western demand has not resulted in increased holdings of bullion except through securitised ETFs. Instead the liabilities faced by the bullion banks on uncovered accounts will have increased to accommodate growth in demand. Therefore, the vested interests of the bullion banks and the central banks overseeing the gold market call for continued suppression of the gold price, so as to avoid a repeat of the crisis faced in September 1999 when the price increased by 30% in only two weeks.

Where are the sellers?

Price suppression can only be a temporary stop-gap, and there has never been sufficient supply to allow the central banks to retrieve their leased gold from the bullion banks. Therefore, Frank Veneroso’s conclusion in 2002 that there had to be existing leases totalling 10-15,000 tonnes is a starting point from which leases and loans have increased. There are two events which will almost certainly have increased this figure dramatically:

  1. When the price rose to $1900 in September 2011 there was a concerted attempt to suppress the price from further rises. The lesson from the 1999 crisis is that the bullion banks’ geared exposure to unallocated accounts was forcing a crisis upon them; and if they had been forced to cash-settle these accounts the gold price would almost certainly have risen further risking a widespread monetary crisis.
  2. Through 2012 Asian demand, particularly from China coinciding with continued investor demand for ETFs, was already proving impossible to contain. In February this year the Cyprus bail-in banking crisis warned depositors in the eurozone that all bank deposits over the insured limit risked being confiscated in the event of a wider eurozone banking crisis. This drove many unallocated account holders to seek delivery of physical gold from their banks, forcing ABN-AMRO and Rabobank to suspend all gold deliveries from their unallocated accounts. This was followed by a concerted central and bullion-bank bear raid on the market in early April, driving the price down to trigger stop-loss sales in derivative markets and subsequent liquidation of ETF holdings.

It is widely assumed that the unexpected rise in demand for bullion that resulted from the April take-down was satisfied through ETF sales; but an examination of the quantities involved shows they were insufficient. The table below includes officially reported demand for China and India alone, not taking into account escalating demand from the Chinese diaspora in the Far East, and from elsewhere in Asia.

These figures do not include Chinese and Indian purchases of gold in foreign markets and stored abroad, typically carried out by the rich and very rich. Nor do they include foreign purchases by the Chinese Government and its agencies. Despite these omissions, in 2012 recorded demand from these two countries left the world in a supply deficit of 131 tonnes. Furthermore, ahead of the April smash-down in the first quarter of this year the deficit had jumped to 88 tons or an annualised rate of 352 tonnes.

Demands for delivery by panicking Europeans in the wake of the Cyprus fiasco could only provoke one reaction. On Friday 12th April 400 tonnes of paper gold were dumped on the market in two orders, triggering stop-loss sales and turning market sentiment bearish in the extreme. Western investors started to think about cutting their losses, and they sold down ETF holdings to the tune of 325 tonnes in 2013 by the end of May. However, it triggered record demand among those who looked on gold as insurance against currency and systemic risks.

Later that year in July Ben Bernanke told the Senate Banking Committee he didn’t understand gold. That was probably a reference to the April gold price smash orchestrated by the central banks, and how it unleashed record levels of demand. It was an admission that he thought everyone would follow the new trend acting like portfolio investors, forgetting that if you lower the price of a commodity you merely unleash demand. It was also an important admission of policy failure.

Since those events in April, someone has been supplying the market with significant quantities of gold to keep the price down. We know it is not Arab gold, because I have discovered through interviewing a director of a major Swiss refiner that Arab gold is being recast from LBMA specification bars into one kilo 9999 bars, which has become the new Asian standard. Arab gold does not appear to be being sold, only recast, and anyway it is only a small part of their overall wealth. We also know from our long-term analysis that any European gold bullion is relatively small in quantity and tightly held. There can only be one source for this gold, and that is the central banks.

I discovered that there was a discrepancy in the Bank of England’s custodial gold of up to 1,300 tonnes between the date of its last Annual Report (28th February) and mid-June when a lower figure was given out to the public on the Bank’s website. This fits in well with the additional amount of gold needed to manage the price between those months. Furthermore, the Finnish Central Bank recently admitted that all its gold held at the Bank of England was “invested”, i.e. sold, and further added that the practice “was common for central banks”.

Bearing in mind Veneroso’s conclusion in 2002 that there must be 10,000-15,000 tonnes out on lease and loan from the central banks at that time, one could imagine that this figure has increased significantly. Officially, the signatories of the Central Bank Gold Agreement, plus the US and UK own 20,393 tonnes. A number of other central banks are likely to have been persuaded to “invest” their gold, but this is bound to exclude Russia, China, the Central Asian States, Iran, and Venezuela. Taking these holders out (amounting to about 3,000 tonnes) leaves a balance of 8,401 tonnes for all the rest. If we further assume that half of that has been deposited in London, New York or Zurich and leased out that means the total gold leased and available for leasing since 2002 is about 12,000 tonnes. And once that has gone there is no monetary gold left for the purpose of price suppression.

Could this have disappeared since 2002 at an average rate of 1,000 tonnes per annum? Quite possibly: in which case the central banks are very close to losing all control over the gold price.

In Part 2: The Very Real Danger of a Failure in the Gold Market, I discuss why the Chinese are buying so much gold, and why the Reserve Bank of India is trying to suppress gold demand. I show that gold is substantially undervalued, and why that undervaluation is likely to correct itself spectacularly, precipitating a financial crisis.

Click here to access Part II of this report (free executive summary; enrollment required for full access).



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Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:32 | 4223111 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The Indians are very tech saavy people, when they discover Gold 2.0 I would look for further corrections for Gold 1.0.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:36 | 4223116 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Don't tell him that bitcoin is going to zero, he is easily excitable.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:37 | 4223119 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It already did go to zero once.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:48 | 4223155 NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

Its crashed 75+% several times. Might of course happen again.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:08 | 4223194 Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Only a fool would believe that the grid is sustainable forever. Bit coin can only go to zero in the end . Between now and then, it can go to infinity as long as greater fools are waiting in the wings and the Federal Reserve is on a spending spree

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:14 | 4223206 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Shiny happy people holding hands...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:25 | 4223244 Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

Why, the Hindi goddess used for this piece looks rather familiar.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:35 | 4223414 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

"Why, the Hindi goddess used for this piece looks rather familiar."

She is rather attractive, I must say.  All of the women of Indian descent that I know tend to be a bit more rotund and far more swarthy.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:13 | 4223499 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

When I was 18, my father took our family to South Africa for a vacation.  One of the larger communities there were people from India.  I saw some amazingly attractive young women!

But, they say to look at mama to see the future...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 06:21 | 4223978 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



It already did go to zero once.


Hasn't happened to gold in 5000 years.


Coincidence?  I think not.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 08:49 | 4224060 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

"Buy my book"

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 13:51 | 4229604 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Karma Sutra Coin?


Sex sells!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:52 | 4223305 Mr. Magoo
Mr. Magoo's picture

This is just history repeating itself, The same thing happened to Rome when they transferred all the wealth to the east in Constantinople and left the west to rot and be gutted by barbarians.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:45 | 4223432 garypaul
garypaul's picture

Oh but did it rot for long? What was the trajectory of Western civilization after that period?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:49 | 4223443 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



The Central Bank of DoChenRollingBearing, perhaps in a vain effort to stem the eastward gold tide, just added a little Au and Pt to its reserves.


Sat, 12/07/2013 - 08:13 | 4224043 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

no need to try to stem it, the trend is your friend!

gold does what it always does, like water flowing downhill, it goes from weaker hands to stronger ones, from indulgent consumer societies to industrious producers.

it leaves the west where it's disrespected and goes east where it's appreciated.

as per gresham's law, it is being chased away by phony iou notes of fiat currentcy from bankrupt nations.


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:05 | 4223482 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

There will never be a lack of gold in the USA, given that the US has more gold-diggers than the rest of the planet combined.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:14 | 4223501 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Good humor on a Friday evening brought me a smile, thanks.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:04 | 4224402 What you talkin...
What you talkin about Willis's picture

The American Vag, Most over valued commodity on the planet.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:19 | 4223221 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Only a fool would believe that the grid is sustainable forever."


Look, in a post-dollar world while you are out happily SHTFing with your kinfolk, how realistic is it that you are going to run into pirates and cowboys to barter with?  You are far better off today stocking up on Bitcoin, iTunes credits, full season DVDs, XBox games, etc for the modern consumer to trade with.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:27 | 4223242 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

It's got electrolytes!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:56 | 4223463 akak
akak's picture

It's got what NSA plants crave!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:51 | 4223649 fonestar
fonestar's picture

BTW, I am still waiting for someone to explain why the NSA would seek to destroy the dollar after spending fifty years trying to maintain dollar hegemony?  It's not that I don't like a good conspiracy but I find them easier to believe when you can at least establish motive.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:02 | 4223663 akak
akak's picture

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to stop bittrolling and shut the fuck up already.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:38 | 4223730 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

You're liable to be waiting quite awhile.

fonestar is a mission poster driven by religious fanaticism.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 01:02 | 4223760 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I started off just another regular troop in the SLA.  Went to a training camp with the Satoshis.  Never saw crazy shit like that before, I became radicalized and never looked back....

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 05:49 | 4223957 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Groovy, baby, but nobody cares. You're free to worship as you please.

Bear in mind, though, that proselytizing beyond a threshold of obnoxious righteousness leads to assholiness.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 06:25 | 4223983 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




You're free to worship as you please.


Welcome to the Koolaid cult....we'll take just about anyone.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:43 | 4223737 SMG
SMG's picture

Simple, NSA is controlled by NWO Oligarchs who want a global currency.  The dollar paved the way for the a global currency, but its outlived it's usefulness.  The dollar's time as a reserve currency is running short.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:57 | 4223755 fonestar
fonestar's picture

It's nice to know these things are so simple.  You are my new hero.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 04:03 | 4223899 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

You asked for it.

You wanted a simple motive and got one.

One world governement and one global currency.

Of course, a lot of people will have to expire first.

But that's a stupid conspiracy theory.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:56 | 4224385 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I agree it is a stupid conspiracy, that they would willingly try and crash their own currency and believe they can maintain control of the situation?  Stupid.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 09:05 | 4224074 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

The NSA is run by dedicated civil servants who only ever have your best interest in mind.

There are a buch of fags who kinda work there who only hire dicks but that too is in your best interest.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:06 | 4224100 Drifter
Drifter's picture

It was maintainable till Fed kicked presses into high gear in '08.  That's when the end game commenced.  It's just a matter of time now.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:32 | 4223255 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Not much of a student of history are you?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:37 | 4223263 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Enough to know the items that retain value through the years.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:38 | 4223276 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Like... bitcoin? lolololo.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:42 | 4223282 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I've got some Atari 2600 games to sell you.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:57 | 4223319 graspAU
graspAU's picture

Still enjoying my Nintentdo and Super Nintendo to this day. I get what you are saying though, not stuff that is liquid and highly valuable to many others, but have some bases covered for that as well.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:22 | 4223387 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Uh, I'm thinking guns, ammo, whiskey, and food ( yes, in that order) will get you further than a pocket full of I-Tunes gift cards if SHTF.

They guy crushing around in ass-less chaps on a motorcycle is not going to stop from blowing your head off to take your last Pop-Tart because you barter with him offering up your flash-drive with Bit-Coins in it...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:37 | 4223415 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Charles Bronson goes to Somalia?  You guys really need to get some more civilized neighbours.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:41 | 4223278 knukles
knukles's picture

Hey, he probably's still using mom's computer in the basement.  You know, the one she made $10,344 in her spare time on....

fonstar has never ever even been near a battle zone in a "civilized" country or he'd not make such fucking stupid prognostications

SHTF for him is not getting to level 7 in some video game and getting to start over with all limbs and sanity intact ....

Oh fuck man, I need another Rockstar colon blow caffine fix!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:43 | 4223287 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Cut the guy a break.  He's either very young and thus consumed in his own few year adult time-bubble which seems like an eternity to him, or he's NSA.  Either way, he believes what he's selling.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:54 | 4223314 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

I'm going to agree on that one.  I think his thought process is the unfortunate product of life in a socialist utopia and therefore has no other reference point.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:59 | 4223322 knukles
knukles's picture

You are correct, sir.
I shall endeavor to act in a more civilized manner.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:27 | 4223337 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I haven't told anyone here to go fuck themselves for several days, so we'll see who breaks first.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:47 | 4223436 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ha ha ha, LTER!  Why that almost sounds Twelve Step like...


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:52 | 4223454 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I just came back from a testicular cancer support group if that helps*

*fight club reference for those who haven't watched it in a while.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:17 | 4223507 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Why, I feel kind-of virgin-like, even married 28 years (although that may explain some of that too) that I have still not seen "Fight Club".

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:31 | 4223529 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Tyler Durden: "Man, I see in fight club the strongest and smartest men who've ever lived. I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off."

It's worth a watch.  The wife wil llike it.  Trust me.  And Meat Loaf is in it.  Worth a watch just for that.  I will do anything....

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:47 | 4223564 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

OK, I am going to tell (er, ask) my wife to put that into the Netflix rotation, thanks!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:51 | 4223572 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

It is a really well done flick.  Enjoy.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:55 | 4223575 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Not on Netflix (at least not in the US).  Find it.  Watch it.  She will like it.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:18 | 4223342 NIHILIST CIPHER


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:19 | 4223363 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"fonstar has never ever even been near a battle zone in a "civilized" country or he'd not make such fucking stupid prognostications

SHTF for him is not getting to level 7 in some video game and getting to start over with all limbs and sanity intact ...."


It sounds like you are woefully unaware of what a true SHTF situation can come to in a modern concrete jungle today.  Items are often back-ordered to the point where the newest release is already coming out in other areas.  People can be forced to clean their teeth with baking soda and families are reduced to eating left-overs sometimes for months on end.  To alleviate bordom and stress, people engage in such anachronistic activities as walking dogs, playing cards or friendly conversation.

Before engaging in such smug commentary I emplore you to first consider the gravity of what you are dealing with.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:42 | 4223399 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Canada, right?  Maybe Greater Toronto Area?  Close to downtown but not quite downtown?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:51 | 4223444 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

reminds me of the Simpsons where chief Wiggum's tv goes out and the announcer says:

"Your cable TV is experiencing difficulties. Please, do not panic. Resist the temptation to read or talk to loved ones. Do not attempt sexual relations, as years of TV radiation have left your genitals withered and useless."


How you are before a crisis is indicative of how you will be during a crisis.

Play nice and mind your genitals periodically.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:07 | 4223195 NIHILIST CIPHER

fonestar             Help me out for a second please. Is gold 2.0  trading shares of bitcoin to dealers for gold? 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:44 | 4223142 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

It should really be called ButtCoin.

But...but...what about Fermat and Miller Rabbin-tested large prime number algorithm RSA encryption?

But...but...Satoshi said p2p, safe, secure, anonymous, only 21 million ever mined...

But...but...Fonestar already launched a new business venture with Casey Serin...

But...but...I was worth millions just last week!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:48 | 4223154 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

In San Francisco, Buttcoin is a recognized currency and can be redeemed for something that you can, um, put your hands on.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:02 | 4223175 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

It's tangible. It's fungible.  It's liquid. 

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:50 | 4223301 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I don't know.  My wife just ain't swallowing this Bitcoin thing.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:34 | 4223403 akak
akak's picture

But fonestar is positively licking it up.

I hear Bitcoins taste kind of sweet and salty.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:24 | 4223519 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Listen up, naysayer fucktards:

I don't have a lot of BTC, but I'm getting sooooooooo fucking tired of these "gold-an-only-gold Neanderthals", who fail to see that gold+btc are the perfect combo as fiat-killers, that I can't wait for some Schadenfreude, when they will lament "Coulda, woulda, shoulda" a few years from now.

TPTB must be laughing their asses off, seeing how insecure and downright 'rabid' so many gold-bugs are about BTC.  Can you say "divide & conquer"?  The irony is the the BTC crowd actually likes Gold and tends to hold both.  But for some reason, many (not all) gold-bugs not only "just don't get it", but seem to feel the need to actually attack the BTC crowd.  "Stupid is as stupid does" comes to mind.

[time to chill with some good beer]

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 09:30 | 4224090 Drifter
Drifter's picture

I learned long ago don't try to discuss facts about a car with a used car salesman like phonystar.  They twist every negative into a positive. 

Just walk away.


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:51 | 4223302 seek
seek's picture

You're turning into a parody if you honestly believe that.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:18 | 4223512 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Beginning Bitcoiner Bearing just picked up some Au and Pt today...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:54 | 4223752 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm just a bit of a self parody.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:28 | 4223609 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Do you have any gold 1.0 to sell?

Edit:  This was a reply to fonestar but his comment is now missing?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:54 | 4223653 NeverForgetSilver
NeverForgetSilver's picture

Not so fast. They have to convince their brides BitCoin on neck is prettier.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:56 | 4223657 NeverForgetSilver
NeverForgetSilver's picture

BitCoin 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 ....1000 are already here to compete. The world will be filled with these digital numbers. Unlimited supply means only one thing. You know as much as I do.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 03:58 | 4223897 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Sorry fonestar, their wives can't wear it.

Seriously, is this difference between gold and bits so difficult?

It seems simple to me. I guess I'm just simple.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:33 | 4223112 Dear Infinity
Dear Infinity's picture

Yeah well maybe if they'd stop hammering it at 2 AM and selling the paper world supply, premiums wouldn't be so ridiculous and the markets wouldn't be so broken...

Paging Bart..

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:33 | 4223114 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

She should hook up with Mr. Goldshirt and start pumping out golden bambinos.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:47 | 4223128 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Datta Phuge, the $250,000 gold shirt man, is happily married:

Some press reports have suggested Phuge only bought the shirt to woo women but he is happily married to Seema, a government worker, who also has a penchant for the precious metal.

"She owns 500kg of gold, I've bought her necklaces and bags made from it," he says proudly.

But Phuge is also keenly aware of gold's value as an investment.

"If the need arises, I can sell the shirt and have the money," he says.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:16 | 4223271 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:38 | 4223120 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Unless I'm missing something, the "Available for the Rest of the World" row should be multiplied by -1 .

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:05 | 4223189 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

What you're really missing is: The once wth the biggest guns own the gold, even of it's "placed" in somebody's else his vault

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:15 | 4223211 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Or, a wearhouse (or vault) is empty, until proven full.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:23 | 4223233 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I'm not missing that at all.  My point was a narrow one:


Under my old fashioned view of things if demand is 238 and supply is 240 that leaves +2 available to meet other demand, not -2.   But since everything else is backwards these days, WTF.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:03 | 4223586 Being Free
Being Free's picture

With you Bastiat.  Looked upside down to me too but figured that's just the way things are.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:42 | 4223131 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Check out the articles on

China now has more(known) than the US.Like we didn't know this?,when the real #'s come out, the world will be aghast, adn China and India will be the last two standing.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:44 | 4223134 NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

China is swapping US bonds for Gold. Hence no currency effect.....until people understand what the did.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:00 | 4223328 NIHILIST CIPHER

nailib       Who would swap their gold for toiletpaper?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:44 | 4223735 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Who would swap their gold for toiletpaper?

Retarded shitasses.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:44 | 4223133 wswarrior
wswarrior's picture

People are thinking about this all wrong.   There is a lot of fake wealth in the Asian economies as a result of the Fed's money printing.   Once these economies correct and the liquidations take place,  the fake paper wealth being used to by precious metals will dry up.   I'm a gold bull,  but don't agree that Asian demand is the true catalyst.   The catalyst will be when people realize that the central banks have finally lost control of the flawed monetary system.   These economies will bust worse than most people can imagine.  

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:22 | 4223516 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 for an interesting thought.  But, I have no idea of how this will all play out.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:33 | 4223722 NeverForgetSilver
NeverForgetSilver's picture

I was thinking like you before and I changed my mind when I tried to force my way to the front of the gold counter in Beijing's main gold store. The store is huge but it was filled with people and they were buying instead of looking. By comparison, North American market is very quiet. China bought close to the world annual production this year and US is a net seller. I guess any one country doing this should have big impact on the gold price. China is no longer a poor country.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:45 | 4223138 NIHILIST CIPHER

Where is the fervor we once had for silver, never any talk of silver. It's all about gold now. Back in the day ZH was on fire with  crashing the comex with silver purchases. Would the silver price improve if we revisited those days again? Did bitcoin put out silver's pilot light?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:55 | 4223163 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Perhaps too many people cried the $1000 an ounce wolf month on month, while the prices have been depressed for 4 years.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:53 | 4223280 NIHILIST CIPHER

TA     Same holds true for gold. How many times have you heard that gold is going to 5000 or even 50,000 while the price is depressed?     

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:13 | 4223357 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Would you really sell Gold at $5000 if it happened rapidly? Will you sell Gold at $50,000 if that happened rapidly (like within a year or three)?


That would signal that there are just too many Fiat Dollars floating around the Economy (as if there are not already too many in existence to fuel that Fire Storm.).


At $50,000 Gold you'd be paying $160, or more, per Gallon at the Gas Pump, if you could get Gas. As it signals a Hyperinflation I would not sell my Gold for ANY AMOUNT OF DOLLARS at those prices. I'd be trading Gold and Silver for Goods and Services as the US Dollar will be DEAD.


At those prices the price of Gold, in Dollars, is absolutely meaningless. The Shit has hit the Fan at those prices. Why write meaningless, Pie in the Sky crap? That is a nightmare unfolding. It will not be fun.


To da Moon...Yeah...Right...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:27 | 4223245 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

It's embarrassing to talk about how much my ass hurts.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:45 | 4223140 hungrydweller
hungrydweller's picture

The problem is that buttcoin is easily copyable.  Litecoin is only the first entrant.  The future will see so many buttcoin wannabes that none of it will be of any use.  Scarcity does not always translate into value, especially when we are talking about computer 1's and 0's.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:55 | 4223164 NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

true the value lie in its use. Try and send 1 m worth of gold from US to Europe. Or 1m USD. Both take a lot mot more time and cost to send.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:55 | 4223166 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Just like somthing that is old is not always a valueable antique

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:05 | 4223191 AUD
AUD's picture

Scarcity never translates to value. Demand translates to value, and quality translates to demand.

What quality has shitcoin?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:37 | 4223262 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Bit-clones could indeed be Bitcoin's undoing - especially as exchanges get more sophisticated and arbitrage opportunity replete with robo-traders make a mess of valuations.

What wsa intended as a stable currency could become a den of pure momo-speculation.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:07 | 4223347 MrSteve
MrSteve's picture

Speculation in Dutch tulips was based on a virus in the tulips (from Turkey) which led them to produce beautiful and completely unpredictable color variations in their blooms. And how is this different form bitcoins? not one whit.

A court case from back in the olde dayes shows that a sailor slicing and eating a tulip bulb on a kitchen counter which he thought was just an onion was sued for 60,000 golden guilders, the price the hapless burgher had paid for that bulb. All these bitcoin and classic, greater fool stories show is that a fool and his money are soon parted, QED. Thus we get wise sayings; like same old shit, new flies.

Write and let us all know how it feels to be a new fly.



Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:45 | 4223146 falak pema
falak pema's picture

aren't we moving back to the middle ages?

We don't trust our own paper anymore, so we can't impose it as political weapon, as the orient now loves gold like in ancient times.

We don't like democratic constructs we prefer vertical neo feudality which  suits the Arabs and Orientals fine. THey never had Enlightenment.

What next ? 

Czars and Caesars...? 


Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:02 | 4223477 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

And Western Culture had enlightenment?  We already have Czars and Caesars.  A rose, by any other name, is still a rose.


So...Anything new?  No?  I did not think so.  It is just a that follows another.


A Rose is a Rose

Is a Rose

Is a Rose

Is a Rose


Gertrude Stein ~ Another Fucking Socialist...but she writes the truth here. 


Hiding the LIE in a whole bunch of Truth is the best way to hide the fucking LIE.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 07:48 | 4224031 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Some could argue that the lie is the label "fucking socialist" and the truth is "rose, rose"; but then we are playing with semantical shadows and we stay in poetic mode, not in harsh concrete reality.

She never was a political denier just a socialite, an "ideas" lady, who said what she thought and we can't deny her that inalienable right. She did impact the artistic scene and that was positive on her part. 

My point was that having had those Czars and seen what they achieved it wasn't a good idea to go back that way; but human momentum is not logical and those who firmly believed it is : the enlightenment breed, are finding out the bitter truth about its circular and amnesic nature. 

Sisyphus we stay. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:08 | 4224538 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Caesar seems to be in place in the US, and there are all kids of Czars popping up.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:50 | 4223157 NaiLib
NaiLib's picture

Interesting how this guy trying to sell the rest for 30 usd.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 19:54 | 4223161 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I got some of that Pie!!

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:00 | 4223169 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Pocahontas pie?

   Sleep well S-D  ;-}

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:17 | 4223217 negative rates
negative rates's picture

No, but if I don't a nail filing pardner soon, i'm gonna be in a world of hurt.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:19 | 4223230 Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

I love a woman with a head on her shoulders- and what shoulders! 

If I decimated your people would you hold it against me?

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:05 | 4223178 bigrooster
bigrooster's picture

fonescar is a troll

fonestar is our king


PS pondscum:  suck my COCK!

Edit: my rooster's of course, not mine.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:04 | 4223185 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Gold is going to explode to the upside.  Just a hunch.  People are going to wake up and realize.  Asia is a large piece of territory and Asia respects.  Patience.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 23:46 | 4223523 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, I think you are right on all counts.  Especially patience.  + $55,000

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:03 | 4223186 Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

When the next Housing Bubble bursts, there will be a Great Rotation from overpriced assets (like houses and stocks) to underpriced assets (like PMs).

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:08 | 4223196 lewy14
lewy14's picture

Total. Effing. Lust.

(Oh, and the girl is pretty hot, too.)

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:37 | 4223267 Lordflin
Lordflin's picture

Nothing a good war won't solve...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:36 | 4223268 Seeking Aphids
Seeking Aphids's picture

Negative sentiment towards gold/silver is at an all-time high (or at least a very long-time high)....this can only be bullish. We also know that the market is a house built on sand that will collapse at some point. We also know that COMEX reserves are extremely low......if there is a movement into physical gold in January it could provoke a landslide reaction as falling supply meets rising demand...

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:38 | 4223277 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Dear Tyler, 

 Could we please try and have one gold porn article a day?

 Throw us bugs a bone!


  Jimmy T


p.s. silver porn is good too

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:49 | 4223299 CoonT
CoonT's picture

Lovin' all the Bitcoin porn recently! Keep up the good work, Tylers. Most of the old dogs on here are in desperate need of a new trick.

Q: What's better than owning: Gold, silver and bitcoin?


A: Waking up every morning in Canada...with a little stash of gold, silver and bitcoin :)

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:01 | 4223334 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

and a herd of cattle

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:55 | 4223315 Martel
Martel's picture

There is precious little bullion left in the West

...and we haven't even opened the vaults and bought back the shorts yet.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 20:58 | 4223327 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Personally! I'm keeping my mouth shut! If Foneclowns BTC ideas bear fruit, I don't want to be on his "shit list".

  BTC is being challenged by other "value to return" methods. I trade fiatskis, so I have no room to talk...

   I hope fone clown diversifies his profits.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:43 | 4223424 frankTHE COIN
frankTHE COIN's picture

Don't worry. If he posts one more time I'll have his location Triangulated.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 04:32 | 4223917 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Yen: I'm seeing real time BTC prices at the following:

Mt.Gox: 650

BTC-E: 617

Time is 1:22am NA mountain time.


Edit: 640/608 only a few minutes later.

Edit: And, a slight boost again to 650/610

Right then, I'm done reporting for this evening.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:14 | 4223360 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

The G8 CBs don't give a shit, because Gold is not the ONLY real hard asset to which they can index their fiat. They can simply create a Basket of Real Assets that INCLUDES gold, but is not limited to it alone.

What they ultimately want is cyber currency, for which Bitcoin is setting the stage. It is not a coincidence that some banks are getting ready to accept Bitcoin.

My questions/concerns are quite different: What's the point of having it if the banks get involved? Might as well use cash (anonymity) or Debit card (convenience). To me its only value-add proposition is that it acts as electronic cash, and thus keeps the big fat nose of Big Bro out of my life.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:20 | 4223364 exartizo
exartizo's picture

gold is being managed by the financial elite in what I like to call Goldilocks Syndrome. Meaning obviously: "not too high, not too low, just right" Why aren't they trying to make it crash? Well, for one thing gold is doing that on its own. For another any sudden downward volatility in gold causes the Zombie Gold Buyers to "get up from the dead" and break their piggy banks to buy gold on the cheap. The government doesn't want that. Similarly they prevent gold from rising above resistance to stop the Parabolic Gold Bugs From breaking their piggy banks in anticipation of new break out highs in gold. Again, thats obviously not at issue right now either. So its smooth sailing on a gradual declining slope made to perfectly match the manufactured recovery numbers the MSM and government have been puking forth for years. Until it isn't.











Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:20 | 4223371 Randoom Thought
Randoom Thought's picture

JMHO: Wealth is determined by one's productive and valuable assets. I personally define wealth as something that has value to others at a particular point in time, independent of the intervention of banks or their agents.

Food, water, energy, clothing, land, a productive business (that makes something people need), raw materials needed by people or businesses ... etc. can compose wealth.

The particular point in time is important because what people need changes over time and with conditions.

The test of being independent of banks is important because banks are in the business of parasitically sucking some of your wealth without creating anything of value and to do that they lie, collude, cheat, steal and defraud. When they control the monopolistic creation of currency they can also choose to dictate the price of things denominated in that currency, whether or not they have independent value to people.

Based on what I see, gold is one of those things that almost no one needs and its price in monopolistic fiat currency terms is almost solely dictated by banks. It only has a "market" price because banks say it has a "market" price.... history and tradition be damned.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:32 | 4223404 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture


On the ground report of physical demand from a Swiss refiner: 

"…At this Swiss refinery there have been several times this year on which they were unable to source gold, this shocked me. They’re bringing in good delivery bars, scrap and dore from the mines, basically all they can get their hands on. This gentleman has been in the business for 37 years, he was there during the last bull market in the late seventies. I asked him when was the last time this has happened, that he was unable to source gold, he said never. And I clarified it, I asked: let me make sure if I understand what you’re saying to me, in the last 37 years you’ve worked in the gold industry this has never happened? He said: this has never happened."

"I’m not comfortable to put a time on this. What I do know is that we are on the threshold of a situation that has never occurred before. A squeeze is imminent, it could take 3 months or 6 months, but all I know is that it’s coming, and I know that with 100 % certainty. "

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 22:28 | 4223534 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture



Excellent reporting, Bastiat!  We inch ever closer...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 07:04 | 4224012 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



At this Swiss refinery there have been several times this year on which they were unable to source gold


Looks like the Swiss and Germany will have to enter Thunderdome for the 7 year partial payoff. We wish both sides good luck.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:34 | 4225291 Randoom Thought
Randoom Thought's picture

We are not having any trouble sourcing gold for industrial purposes. Of course, we buy it from a bullion bank. My guess is that all of those nuvo-gold bulls that piled into the yellow metal between $1500 and $2000/oz have no reason or necessity to sell at this time.

Fri, 12/06/2013 - 21:34 | 4223410 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture


A article on gold that bears some semblance to reality....

BTW, there appears to be plenty to meet demand in the West....

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 00:36 | 4223718 monad
monad's picture

The thumbnail Bhavani is made more fine by wearing gold. The gold shirt guy, not so much. Guess that means I'm not a homo.

300 millions guns implies minimum 6 billion decentralized ounces.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 01:55 | 4223814 Incubus
Incubus's picture

 In on the ZH venture for a bitcoin derivative: buttcoins.



Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:10 | 4224419 Cacete de Ouro
Cacete de Ouro's picture

This article has more holes than a Swiss cheese...

When one assumption is used, that's a problem, when at least 10 assumptions are used, nothing stated can be taken as fact, even though it may all be true.

It's better to deal in facts....

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:25 | 4224576 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Correct, but the problem is that real hard facts on ths subject are deliberately hidden.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!