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Meanwhile, Bitcoin Is Sliding...
Along with the USD and JPY, Bitcoin is having a bad day. For the second time, following a 'touch' of the Gold, Bitcoin has fallen dramatically in the days after. Volume is also relatively heavy. It would seem that this drop in USD BTC has compressed the "arb" against China BTC to zero (from over $100 earlier in the week). USD BTC $940, China BTC 5771 (USD equiv. $946)
Chart: Bitcoinwisdom
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If I were a central planner, I'd buy them all up and dump 'em to destroy confidence. Kinda like Gold....but only after I went on TV and called it a bubble.
pretty much true. you buy for only 50 million $ and dump it in a flash in 3 turns to destroy all confidence.
Uh, you guys really think they aren't already doing this? Who has the most money to play with again? The only difference is they want BTC to succeed because then they can use it for commerce with your RFID implant; but first, volatility for profits and eye catchiness.
Where is that douche bag that pumps bitcoins on here now? I bet he is shtting his pants as his I will be rich forever thesis is getting monkeslammed to oblivion. intrinsic value of digital currency......... cracks me the fuck up.
Calling Phonystar! MDB please prod him awake.
fonestar has much p-work to engage in today. Rest assured, Bitcoin will be fine and I remain committed to bringing you the very best in Bitcoin commentary.
I'll grant you, you are consistent and persistent.
p-work ? as in 'poop-work' as in cleaning-poop-from-your-shorts work ?
Sometimes I get dragged out of my virtual work to engage legacy people in the physical world.
Ditto,
Can you hookup your bitcoin miner to an Xbox One?
.
How many bitcoins did King Solomon own? And does the Queen have any stashed in her purse?
Mine with an xbox..??...
Yes, there's an app for that.
Hmmmm.....the dreaded classic double top formation....I'm sure it's nothing.
Carry on.
Bitcoins are mentioned several times in the old testament and the rantings of Ezekiel.
They also play a major role in US history with Lincoln's introduction of the Greenbit in 1861.
The Bronze Age in Mesopotamia (roughly 3200 B.C. to 1000 B.C.) has been characterized as a time of vibrant economic expansion, when the earliest Sumerian cities and the first great Mesopotamian empires grew and prospered. John Noble Wilford wrote in the New York Times, ? After thousands of years in which copper was the only metal in regular use, the rising civilizations of Mesopotamia set off a revolution in metallurgy when they learned to combine tin with copper to make bitcoins. Bronze was easier to cast in molds than copper and much harder, with the strength of some steel. Though expensive, bitcoins were popular until the bubble collapsed, as there was no real need for them. Bronze was eventually used in a wide variety of things, from axes and awls to hammers, sickles and weapons, like daggers and swords. The wealthy were entombed with figurines, bracelets and pendants of bronze, and a lot of useless bitcoins.
Bitcoins are mentioned several times in the old testament and the rantings of Ezekiel.
Yeah.....what bible was that in again?
I fucking hate when that happens.
I've been a critic of bitcoin for various reasons, but I'm always open to learning.
I have a legit question......
I watched that video which showed to creater of bitcoin who said they everything is traceable & transparent. In fact, he said that bitcoin has been ativiely working with the government.
Is this the case? I was under the impression bitcoin couldn't be tracked and that was one of the appeals of it.
The Bitcoin protocol just deals with Bitcoin addresses. There is nothing tying addresses to real people and if you want you can generate a new address for every transaction. The allegations that Jeff Garzik is working with the Feds is baseless.
Even the blockchain can not track all transactions. How many bitcoin can fit on a 8GB microdisk? Can you not verify the disk and then use it as currency?
Completely untraceable...
You can use anonymization software such as TOR and i2p to make sure no one can make the connection between you and your Bitcoin addresses. You can also encrypt the wallet file, or your whole harddrive, so that even if you get all your computers/devices/storage media confiscated and searched, no one can find what address you used, or even if you ever used Bitcoin.
So you can make Bitcoin untraceable to you, although it takes some little extra effort on your part. At the same time, if/when the political situation improves and you feel comfortable, you could reveal that the addresses you used belonged to you and you can prove it after the fact.
In biased bitcoin advocacy I presume.
What's all this talk about block chain weakness and the 96,000 BTC theft from Sheep?
The sheep at Sheep got fleeced........
Seems a buyer there found a hole in the security and made off with a some serious coinage.
Problem for the thief is that every coin has a specific code and is traceable..
The usual laundring methods don't appear to work the same with dirty cash.
But if someone with that experience and creativity can find a hole....can they then find a way to change the specific code on his hot coins...??
Is a fascinating thread to follow...
http://www.reddit.com/r/SheepMarketplace/comments/1rvlft/i_just_chased_h...
A similar problem happened at some other market I read about. It is beginning to look like a pattern in these markets in the darknet. Another market is shutting its doors now because of a hole where someone was swiping btc. The sheep thing is beginning to look like a hack that can happen to more than just sheep. Some wider exploit at play or someone with a lot of resources to take out the underground markets.
It is interesting. But they could not have been stolen if they had not been deposited with the exchange in the first place. Its an illegal marketplace for Christsakes, who deposits their money with their drug dealer?
*commentardy
A history of bitcoin reporting:
Bitcoin crashes to <$1
Bitcoin crashed today down to $7
The bitcoin bubble popped, down to $60
Bitcoin scam revealed, dropped 40% to $200
Bitcoin crashes to $900
Do you notice the trend??
Headline from 2020:
BITCOIN ARMAGEDDON - VIRTUAL CURRENCY FALLS 3% TO BREAK UNDER $10 MILLION, LARGEST ONE-DAY DROP IN 2 YEARS
In other news, bread now costs $20 million.
It is at $870, so yes.
nope...not at all ! ;>) btfbtcd
Wish me luck guys - I'm on my way to buy a new Tesla from Lamborghini Newport Beach with my bitcoins (I'm not the wife of a Chinese Political Party Member trying to evade Chinese capital controls, either, so I'll need luck).
I hope they take another payment in BTC and that I get there quickly enough or I might be riding home in a Kia Soul.
That is you. Congrats, read about it on reddit yesterday, gald to see you're a ZH'er.
He's probably buying them right now. Honestly, it's a tiny swing down in Bitcoin world. And still 50% above the value a month ago. I'm not sure that qualifies as being monkeyslammed to oblivion.
In my case it is a cheap and yet an interesting experiment. Drops some $300? Big deal.
EDIT:
http://fiatleak.com/ over the past 75 minutes showed $18,600,000 of currency traded at the exchanges for BTC. This does not include mining or spending BTC.
Looks like 2/3 of the action is still out of China. Expect a selective crackdown. They have learned well from the American two-tier justice system.
Over the period of a whole day I think you are right, China processes about twice the BTC as the USA.
But, over the past 15 minutes or so, the USA is WAY ahead (people buying BTC at the exchanges), but we usually are at 2:00 PM and change. But, the volume is massive, almost 14,000 BTC in 15 minutes, price jumping around $860.
Government trying everything they can to demonitize PMs. It's been on the agenda for 5+ decades!!
Why on EARTH do you think that gold and bitcoin are enemies? They compliment each other. You keep your savings in gold. When you want to buy something, you trade your gold for bitcoins using a free or cheap online matching service (much like local bitcoins does for dollar today), then buy stuff from anywhere in the world with your BTC. Or transfer it to another country, bypassing currency controls without having to round off your bars and coins so you can shove them up your ass while you cross the border.
For fucks sake, bitcoin makes Freegold possible, without and even in spite of government action.
Gold people should be EMBRACING cryptocurrencies. But instead they fear that they will be adopted instead of gold, leaving them in the dust. For some reason they think they can stop this by trolling, which is ironic since they were the victims of such trolling for the last 15 years.
Never said they were enemies. It's just another unbacked item to draw money away from PMs.
… not backed by anything…? As if only material things have value…
Eggs and gold have value… while doctors and dentists are worthless?
The dollar was backed by goods; gold… Bitcoin is backed by services; faster, cleaner and cheaper mode to transact.
Intrinsic to bitcoin, its value, is derived from its ability to provide an innovative and unique method of carrying out business more efficiently.
People need to stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that only physical items had value. I'm simply referring to BitCON and PMs.
In their simpleton world only an end product that you can physically hold has any "value". So the greatest thinkers, philosophers, mathematicians, cryptographers, scientists, writers, musicians, artists, etc, etc all have "no value".
Aha, now I got it! Bitcoin is backed by rainbow skittles shat by flying unicorns!
What backs up your gold?
Your trust that other people are willing to take it in exchange is the only thing keeping its price above the base industrial value. Bitcoin exists in the same space.
How about 5000 years of human behavior in it's valuation being worth more than zero?
I didn't say your trust was misplaced, only that it was trust.
Didn't we laugh at that reporter when she said that in 2011
Bitcoins aren't unbacked any more than gold is. Both are trade tokens of limited supply. One has features that cause it to excel in use for online trade, while the other is more suited for savings and value preservation.
Saying that bitcoin draws money from gold is like saying SILVER draws money away from gold. And on that point, just what do you think money is anyways? Dollars aren't money, you mook.
Wrong, bitcoin is an app for mommentum-chasing monkeys; gold is an element in the periodic table, aka precious because of it's unique characteristics.
"Bitcoins aren't unbacked any more than gold is."
LOLOLOL Thanks for the laugh, you must be a PhD economist.
Bitcoins aren't unbacked any more than gold is.
Do you work for channel 5 princess?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9IkX3oJipo
tmosley Please advise the name of a gold dealer that will accept cryptocurrency for purchase and said gold will be free. Mega thanks if you can comply.
You have heard people criticize Bitcoin for not having a central bank and that it isn't backed by anything. Now thanks to you that is no longer true. Bitcoin has a decentralized bank and each of us can back our favorite virtual currency with Cold Hard Cash. This makes us the decentralized bank, more resilient, more powerful and smarter in the aggregate than any central bank could be. Scan the QR on these to see their current value in bitcoin and in your local currency anywhere globally. Also the best way to introduce Bitcoin to people unfamiliar with it yet.
http://www.bitgild.com/catalog/product/view/id/86/s/bitcoin-cold-hard-ca...
Interesting point of view. Bitcoin isn't backed by a central party with a single asset at a fixed price. Instead, it's backed by many parties with many assets at variable price. Nothing in that comparison suggests that Bitcoin is inherently "less backed" than gold-backed currencies. It's just backed in a completely different way.
http://www.amagimetals.com/silver/1-ounce/rounds
https://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com/products/
I wasnt sure whether you were being serious, or trolling. Regardless, there are a couple of places which you can purchse silver and gold with BTC.
http://aaronbuysgold.com/news/
exactly, monkeyslammed is what happened to the enroncoin!
BTC will never be a "currency" with price swings of +/-50% per month. Needs to be a reliable store of value first.
Does make a great speculative commodity though.
Sensationalism at it's best. "omg omg omg look btw is dopping like a rock" - Dropping like a rock meaning back to where it was a week or two ago, and still 1000's% above when the early adoptors got into it, who incidentally didn't do it for the fiat return anyway.
This is a good thing. I've been telling everyone who will listen that I want it to crash - and way more than this pissy percentage, you do realise it once dropped from $30 odd to $2 right? - but people simply can't understand why. It gets rid of all the "me to's" while those of us who use it as a means of exchange and a way to stick it to the system keep doing just that.
sure, let them buy us out!!! we'll grab them again after the dump and rinse / repeat
Keep Hashin' !!
Opps the big M pattern....the worst TA pattern
Head and shoulders. I collect falling dandruff.
Yeah, except the problem is you can't naked short BitCoin. You'd have to buy them on the open market and really drive the price up on yourself.
I suppose you could say that is what they have been doing for the last 6 months but it seems that BitCoin is only getting on their radar screens in the last few weeks. Bureaucrats, in general, are sneaky little shits, but they are quite slow on the uptake.
That is going to change:
http://www.indexuniverse.com/sections/news/19902-winklevoss-twins-bitcoin-etf-is-gld-20.html
No, what the Winklevii are doing won't change the fact that BitCoin cannot be naked shorted.
You can naked short a gold ETF because you can also naked short gold on futures and options exchanges. It's easy to naked short gold because the physical gold backing the paper gold is sequestered from prying eyes and can be rehypothecated out hundreds of times with no one being the wiser.
While you could certainly naked short shares of a BitCoin ETF, the problem is, you can't naked short the actual BitCoins because the blockchain is public. And if you can't naked short one, you can't naked short the other.
You could always borrow someone's bitcoins and sell them.
Like if you ran an exchange, or hosted other's wallets.
Then it's a short, not a naked short.
It doesn't get registered anywhere so it's a well dressed short.
Yeah, but that's regular shorting, not naked shorting.
And I'm not sure an exchange could even access someone else's BitCoin, even if they were hosting the wallet. The exchange stores your password as a hashed value, which means they don't know it, so unless you log in and explicitly authorize the borrow yourself, the exchange can't make it happen.
This is unlike the stock exchanges, where it is trivial to borrow shares.
https://icbit.se/ (Futures Market in Bitcoins)
kraken allows naked crosses and naked pair trading.
Most of these exchanges are engaging in some form of rehypothecation. Deposit your BTC/fiat in the exchange and then there are withdrawal caps on both fiat and crypto. I guess not technically textbook rehypothecation but sort of close. Arbing the time window for fullfilment.
Problem with Bitcoin is that the Satoshi paper assumed a nice monopolistic close loop system in which the math shined. Now that people are looking to expand derivatives and such, I'm not sure how the design will stand the test of time.
Again, the HardFork branch of the code injects safeguards and other fixes but I'm still not sure how they socialize BitCoin 2.0 without euthanizing Bitcoin 1.0. (NB: Bitcoin 2.0 may or may not be backward compatible with the Bitcoin 1.0 protocol -- in fact the assumption is that they are breaking changes). And since all the other alt currencies use the BTC protocol/wallet structures, the containment might be squirrelly to control.
Sounds like a good way to lose some money and get nothing for it. Which means it is realistic to expect something like that from them, so thanks for the tip, we will be watching out.
Tyler is in awe of a market that actually declines. Unlike the indexes he tracks every day. Sure, they have their "off days" but most of the time after he cries out in delight over a few hundred points in the red, it turns around and has a faceripper to the upside.
Everyone knew, or at least, the traders I knew (myself included) that the price would swoon soon. Its expected. We've been around the same block many times, first at 31, then at 266. So, we didn't exceed Gold parity this time. It isn't the only reason that Bitcoin exists. And yes, we'll get back there and blow it away in time.
I'm looking forward to doubling or tripling my position once the fall is over, anticipating a nice rise after it is all said and done. You know, like markets USED to act, when you could actually count on a REAL decline and then a REAL rally afterward.
Good luck trying to find that anywhere else, you can't, they've rigged/ruined the game for you to enrich themselves.
Someone swapping BTC for Gold? Makes sense to take some profits in BTC up here and add to the stack.
That transaction would likely not be seen on Mt. Gox and would be direct between gold dealer and BTC owner.
an ounce of gold for a bitcoin. Which one will fall faster?
Or maybe some silver. Thats going gangbusters this week.
The couple of grand in silver I bought a couple of weeks ago with my BTC profits is shrinking faster than a jap penis in a cold shower.
Your silver ounces are shrinking? You should get that looked at.
I'm going out this weekend and getting a GRILL for my teef made completely out of Bitcoins!
At one time Aluminum was worth twice what Gold was.
True. Before electricity it was extremely difficult to refine.
So you're saying I should be savin all my foodstamps and burning down the trailer park? Sounds like a plan!
Indeed, like a termite choking on the splinters.
"At one time Aluminum was worth twice what Gold was."
And I believe that situation will occur again. My hoard of pop tabs is going to make fonestar rich. I am looking for one pop tab = one satoshi.
That's why the top of the Washington monument is covered with it. And then some chemist came along and figured out how to separate it from its compound forms and VOILA! the owner of company he worked for was rich, and he got a pen or watch for Christmas.
that's ok, i'm sure it will be back over 1200 by 3pm.
I don't think anybody could have seen this one comming...
product life cycles... and bitcoins is over
If you look over the price history of Bitcoin coin, there are corrections. Each correction had been followed by a significant gain.
I'll take one step back for ten steps forward, not a problem.
Probably just a buying oppurtunity.
Gold fading too, other commodities as well. But look what's doing great - make-believe fiat assets of all kinds, stocks first and foremost.
A central banker's wet dream - again! They don't even bother to change the sheets anymore ...
I believe bitcoin got ahead of itself. For some reason I feel $625 is a good price at this point.
I also think that people convert bitcoin to gold when the prices cross.
I "feel" that $6,000 is a good price.
Both of us are playing with ourselves.
It's now competing with BBQCoin and CrapCoin. What do you expect?
CokeCoin
Bitchcoin.
BrothercanyouspareaCoin.
FORWARDcoin .
Obamacoin.
Why is it called coin at all? Why not just Bits.
Goledcoin... bitchez
$950 even $850 is not so bad, it was $5 at the start of the year.
How do I know that bitcoin is a bubble waiting to slaughter some sheep?
An email from a retired client today:
Dear Mr. *********
Please take $100,000 and invest in bitcoin for me today.
Sincerly
~!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck on the today part if you don't already have money in an exchange...
I hope you gave him what he wants.
It's not a bubble when people are buying it in lots of $100,000.
It's a bubble when they are buying it in lots of $1000.
Get back to me when everyone's idiot brother-in-law is buying BitCoin.
Everyone's idiot brother-in-law is broke.
But in terms of people with cash, the idiots are definitely in, and have been for a week or two.
Really? You must run in different circles than I do. The smart people I know barely even know that BitCoin exists. Never mind the idiots.
Even most of my tech-saavy friends are watching this from the sidelines.
Sadly, I know people who still read Business Week.
The employees at my company are talking about it in the office ("What's this Bitcoin thing....and should I buy some?").
Shades of bubbles past.
and you haven't fired them yet?? talkin bitcoin is worse than talking 'bout unions in these parts
This is just one of many emails texts and conversations. I single this one out because the gentleman is taking his retirement money and telling me to invest it in something that he has no clue what it is. It's a bubble.
I am curious. How, exactly, would you buy BitCoin on someone else's behalf? This isn't like stocks or bonds where you can open up a brokerage account. What are you telling these people? How are you helping them?
Exactly. I can't buy on their behalf, yet they want me to put their money to work on something that they have zero clue about. All they know is that it's on CNBC and it's going up. They have no clue about exchanges or wallets they just see the hype.
He can't be that stupid. He has $100k to piss away.
And what kind of broker are you....leaving him with any money left. //sarcasm
No he doesn't have that kind of money to piss away, but some people feel the need to swing for the fence. And I know it's hard to believe, but some of us actually believe it's our job to protect our clients..... Even if it's from themselves.
you protected them from 1000% gains this year.. good job!!
Sure you can Dr. E. All you need to do is let me know and I can get you BitCoins. It might take a couple of days but it can be done. The price might be higher than expected and I will need 10% commission to broker the deal. I might not be joking. 100K worth of BTC is doable. I would have to ask. I am not that hard to get in touch with.
I really do not care one way or the other on BTC. I take mine and you take yours and off we go.
"They have no clue about exchanges or wallets they just see the hype."
So you can't buy BitCoins for him, and he's too stupid to figure out how to buy them for himself.
This is why this is not a bubble. BitCoin is doing a very nice job keeping the stupid people out.
Looks like a lot of stupid people just got slaughtered...... Exactly as predicted.
predicted what? I've been selling and buying all day on these dips... every market has fools, no reason to not shake their weak hands free
have you forgotten where bitcoin was just a few months ago??? come back when it is under $10 with your 'protection predictions'
That's like saying you can't buy cash on his behalf, of course you can...
Good question. How about an open account on their behalf at Mt. Gox or some exchange? Could be an arrangement of LPOA like in use in brokerages. Not sure I've seen a setup like that yet, but I would assume they will exist soon if not already.
You've pretty much summed up most "investing". Most people don't understand what they own. Stocks, bonds, mutual funds, fiat, etc.
I seem to have forgotten: Where can I cash out of BTC? What is the premium again? I guess I missed that part.
It is not just a pain in the ass to get out of BitCoin, it's a pain in the ass to get it in. So they kind of cancel each other out.
I am sure it hurts to get it in your ass just as you say. Why, would you like to buy some bitcoins?
Heard a sothern Cali Lamborghini dealership is accepting BC.
Bitstamp.com and BTE-e.com seem decent for USD. I've been using cavirtex.com for CAD withdrawl. Either way, you need photoi ID and proof of address for AML compliance.
OK, that sounds realistic as far as cryptos go. Pretty soon we will end up right back talking aboot[sic] legal tender laws. What could be more fun? Freezing to death, eh?
Coinbase and Localbitcoins are my preferred portals.
Where's forestar!?!?
Could this have anything to do with it?
China Restricts Banks’ Use of Bitcoin
HONG KONG — China moved on Thursday to restrict its banks from using Bitcoin as currency, citing concerns about money laundering and a threat to financial stability.
The action comes as monetary authorities around the world have begun to confront the issue of Bitcoin, a virtual currency whose value has soared in recent months as interest in it has spread. Part of its rise has been driven by intense demand for the virtual currency in China.
The notice curtailing financial institutions’ involvement with Bitcoin was issued by the People’s Bank of China and four other ministries and agencies, and the directive said the step was needed to “protect the status of the renminbi as the statutory currency, prevent risks of money laundering and protect financial stability.”
The notice said that Bitcoin was “not a currency in the real meaning of the word” but was rather a “virtual commodity that does not share the same legal status of a currency. Nor can, or should, it be circulated or used in the marketplace as a currency.”
More here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/business/international/china-bars-bank...
or you can just ignore it...after all, what could possibly go wrong?
Bearshit: Chinese Banks.
Old news.
When you consider what BitCoin really is, the fact that any particular Central Bank is against it, is in fact a bullish sign.
I'd start to worry when the Central Banks start endorsing it.
Yes..."old news"...11 hours old to be precise.
Lol... try to keep up!
Well, in the Bitcoin universe, 11 hours is plenty of time to go from rags to riches, or the other way around . . .
So, put some items up on E-bay for the first time ever. 4 so far. Got bids on 3 of them. 0,1,1,3 so far in terms of bid count. I hope to deliver some quality product to willing buyers at fair (obviously if you bid it you must think it fair) prices in time for holiday gifting.
BTFBTCD !!
when this bc garbage is <100, remember my name
MAN CHARGED WITH FIAT ABUSE AFTER INVESTING IN BITCOIN
turned good money into vapor
Jeff Garzik talking about working with the US government to hand control of bitcoin (video)
http://12160.info/m/discussion?id=2649739%3ATopic%3A1371449
I had high hopes for bitcoin, despite the fundamental flaw of needing government controlled internet to function. Hopefully this turns out differently than everything else.
Shitcoin: a tulip bubble redux with the added benefit of NSA's beast installing the traceable crypto currency for the new-world-order. Yeah, right, only 21 million from a ghost, to your on-line wallet, to the hopium dealer. "Elegant algorithms" from a skittle-shitting unicorn. What could go wrong. Man, the Roths are good, and the emperor is clothed.
The Future Of Money: Gold, CIA And Bitcoin
All these discussions about the CIA and Bitcoin connections are still in the conspiracy theory category like LIBOR and FOREX manipulations before. After China has banned its financial institutions from participation in Bitcoin the question about who is really behind the Bitcoin is getting more and more interesting. With Facebook we created for NSA all our profiles, with Bitcoin somebody is mapping our accounts, IDs and Networks. As the case with Silk Road shows Bitcoin transactions are public forever, can be mapped and build into evidence - so much for distribution and anonymity. http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-future-of-money-gold-cia-and-bit...
If you could divide it into small enough units, it would make a great cashless currency (isn't that the goal?)
Require people to use BTC or equivalent (between smart phones and some other device/means, everyone wiould be assigned a bitcoin wallet.) Should it reach that point, the wallets can be tracked/monitored for activity.
Like the internet, human innovation will find new ways and devices to transact using BTC or any other digital currency, and the infrastructure will be in place right before Co-op'ed!
Then again, you never know what other innovation humanity comes up with. Lots of surprises yet to come, I'd imagine.
Well it has the volitility of the USD going for it. Swan dives are effortless.
850. Time to get out the old tube of K-Y !!!!!
I do enjoy a bit of Bitcoin pandemonium now and again, it like watching a tsunami; you know you shouldn't like it...
Maybe that dude found his hard drive in the trash heap, what had he? 10,000 btc?