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Bitcoin Crashes, Loses Half Of Its Value In Two Days

Tyler Durden's picture





 

It was inevitable that a few short days after Wall Street lovingly embraced Bitcoin as their own, with analysts from Bank of America, Citigroup and others, not to mention the clueless momentum-chasing, peanut gallery vocally flip-flopping on the "currency" after hating it at $200 only to love it at $1200 that Bitcoin... would promptly crash. And crash it did: overnight, following previously reported news that China's Baidu would follow the PBOC in halting acceptance of Bitcoin payment, Bitcoin tumbled from a recent high of $1155 to an almost electronically destined "half-off" touching $576 hours ago, exactly 50% lower, on very heave volume, before a dead cat bounce levitated the currency back to the $800 range, where it may or may not stay much longer, especially if all those who jumped on the bandwagon at over $1000 on "get rich quick" hopes and dreams, only to see massive losses in their P&Ls decide they have had enough.

Which incidentally, like gold, is to be expected when one treats what is explicitly as a currency on its own merits in a world of dying fiat - with the appropriate much required patience - instead of as an asset, with delusions of grandure that some greater fool will pay more for it tomorrow than it is worth today. Sadly, in a world of HFT trading, patience is perhaps the most valuable commodity.

As for Bitcoin, while the bubble may or may not have burst, and is for now kept together with the help of the Winklevoss bros bid, all it would take is for another very vocal institutiona rejection be it in China or domestically, where its "honeypot" features are no longer of use to the Fed or other authorities, for the euphoria to disappear as quickly as it came...

Two day chart, showing the epic move from $1155 to $576 in hours:

And longer term chart showing the overnight action in its full glory:

 


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Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:31 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

Greenspan opened his trap, a clue central banksters would attack bitcoin. Many made hiuge sums pushing it up.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 10:47 | Link to Comment U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

fitting metaphor for Greenspan's mouth

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

FOR EVERY PERSON THAT MAKES MONEY, ONE PERSON HAS TO LOSE MONEY.

OTHERWISE KNOWN AS A PONZI SCHEME.

And I'm not sure why he attacks those of us that own Gold. WTF?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:04 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

BBBBB                TTTTTTTTTTT             FFFFFFFFFFF         DDDD

B        B                     T                    F                        D          D

B BBB                         T                    FFFFFFF               D           D

B        B                     T                    F                        D          D

BBBBB                        T                    F                        DDDD

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:21 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

Tylers, you DO realize that this happens about once every two weeks, right?

That's why I don't buy unless it has gone down >40% from the peak.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:38 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

OH NO!!

CB REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY ATTACK ON BITCOIN!  SELL NOW!!!!

 

(or you can donate those unloved BTC: 18pGo9aLQUtz2r666aBAwQsFsD7wLvBxXb    )

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:44 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Aaaaaaack! The GLDen idol is tarnished!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Plllllease STOP COMPARING bitcoin And GOLD ...
Bitcoin Is Electonic FLUFF On Existing On hardrives, NO BACKING (Not Even The
Money Chargers)...
GOLD Is 8000+ Years Old MONEY/HARD METAL, ART, Etc Etc ETC...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:29 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

BaBaBouy - like most the "give me gold or give me death" people on this site - you are confusing money and currency.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

Beginning Bitcoin Bearing has two questions for knowledgeable BTC guys:

1) When the price was up around $1200, I presume the ASICs and server farms were running full-throttle to produce them.  One would think that they produced as many as possible, hence making the next BTC even harder to produce.  It would seem like that a big price reduction would slow the production process (more electricity, harder than it was to produce them the last time we were at $600, $800 whatever).  Comments?

2) I am inclined to BTFD as well.  I would especially like to hear comments from gold and BTC fans.

***

My average BTC cost is $800, yes I got in very late, but it took me a while to get up to speed.  Boo hoo hoo!  Can I cry on HER shoulder?  ad over there? ------>

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

tylers---by placating to the bit coin fanatics you are gaining short term clicks at the expense of losing most of your truly dynamic posters who tire of the off the subject trending fad of the month.  You are sacraficing quality for quantity.  its all about money...everything is...whats your price tyler?   would you really die for your freedom or are you for sale?  

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:55 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Obviously I'd choose death any day, but just out of curiosity, what 're you offering...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:00 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Nah, I'm not tired of the Bitcoin mania yet.  I think it has another couple pump and dumps left in it, but I don't think we will see the magnitude and speed of moves we have had in the last 6 weeks.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:31 | Link to Comment A L I E N
A L I E N's picture

 

Didn't Satoshi claim there would be 5 bubbles in Bitcoin before it collapsed?  My count is 2 down and 3 more to go! 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

If you count the $30 to $2 crash in 2011, we're at 3. You'd have to zoom in on smaller timeframes to see if there were any crashes when bitcoins were worth pennies.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:50 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

BTC bubble? Unpossible! 

On a related sidenote, btc bugs are getting as bad as goldbugs, quite a feat!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:01 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Twwwat

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:11 | Link to Comment mmanvil74
mmanvil74's picture

Remember folks, the DOT COM bust in 2000 did not mark the end of the DOT COM industry, it market the beginning.  

The DOT COM speculators were right, eventually, but yes most people got burned because they invested in the mania rather than comprehending the long term potential and picking their spots carefully.  Most DOT COM businesses went bankrupt in 2000, but early investors in companies like Google made a fortune.  

As for cryto currency we are effectively in the 1990s of the Internet, some will win, most will lose, winners will win big, and the population as a whole wins eventually, unless you want to hide under a rock with your PMs waiting for the sky to fall, then you lose.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment duo
duo's picture

yup, and nobody remembers Compuserve, AOL, or Netscape.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:46 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

How dare you!

Every year we pause for a moment of silence to remember Netscape Navigator and the sacrifices it made!!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:33 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

Damn, and my computer guy didn't show up for work today. Well talk tomorrow.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

Gawd,  Not another Bitcoin thread

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN BITCOIN - Episode 4,735

By ZH

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 10:10 | Link to Comment N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

I love Bitcoin, I just won't own any until I need to use it as a medium of exchange or for some of the wonderful currency features it has.

Until then my money is in money, not currency.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:43 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

If you guys don't buy some BTC at these crazy levels fonestar is going to club that baby seal!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=063wANsIjmE

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:02 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'll rent you my baseball bat.

That is...if you have any real money ;-)

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:10 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm guessing by "real money" you meant to say state-sponsored money? 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...what are you selling "virtually" manufactured BitCoins for bozo?

Real money is gold, silver & copper. I've been trying to tell you...real money...does not need anything outside of itself to be money.

It doesn't need debt (a negative by the way) to become money or electricty, electronic devices or internet.

So, you guys never said how much Jed McCaleb made in "state sponsored" money for selling Mt.Gox. Or what happens when someone infringes on BitCoins patent...you guys gonna go crying to nanny-state for relief?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I know what "real money" needs outside of itself to be money!  That's simple, it needs people.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:41 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I don't even know what the hell that winds up meaning, there is no reason for money if there are no people.

There is no reason for fishermen if there are no fish either.

You need to step away from the computer dude.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:06 | Link to Comment OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

I'm not picking sides here. I'm not a DigitalCoin fan supporter, or detractor. I am leery of it/them at this time though.

 

But to put this in the form of a question; I think one way to interpret what he means is, just becuase you say that Gold, Silver, and Copper are money, does that make it so? They may be the best commodities for use as money(have the best properties). But it doesn't make them money just because somone says they are money, unless that person desires to be a dictator.

 

I've gave you an greenie for saying they are real money because I feel the same as you. We have that in common. You and me could easily make a trade if we met up and had something the other wanted. So, to you and I they are money. But apparently not everyone feels the same way as you an me or everyone would be using hard money to transact in. That might change. But you, as well as I, have to live in the real world. Gold, Silver, and Copper are not real money at this time. Why people think that copper-filled dimes and quarters, and zinc-filled pennies are money, I don't know.

 

Well, maybe I do. I'll call it brainwashing. It took me a little while to get the propaganda and brainwashing wiped away, and then start getting educated(which never ends). My hope is that for people that awaken don't end up going, "Why oh why didn't I take the Blue Pill." I know that I'd certainly rather live and die knowing the truth.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 09:21 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Plus one, I was your number two last night but I needed to settle myself for what I'm about to say.

"I think one way to interpret what he means is, just becuase you say that Gold, Silver, and Copper are money, does that make it so?"

For thousands of years it has been so. That being said, I'm not so much a detractor of BitCoin as a device to move money around...as I am of him.

He was feeding a base human element of greed by pumping this thing all the way up and then as it crashes, holds out hope & faith in future profits (profits denominated in what, he does not say) as its raison d'être. If one is to take him at his word, that makes it a speculation in something and again, not money, as one needs money first in order to speculate/invest.

Freely admitting I'm conservative by nature with a libertarian bent, I can see the utility for a "mechanism" to move after-taxed money around and do with it what you want. Its yours, its no ones business what you do with it. But the device has to have some measure of stability to make it useful, that is, you can't put a dollar in and get fiddy cents out the other end, speculators like fonestar are wrecking its usefulness to move your money through it.

Your larger point about money & how its accepted and recognized as money doesn't escape me though...but rarity of large rocks with holes in them were found to be lacking because of a theoretically positive design feature (hard to steal but also hard to transport) and the also reverse, as seashells are indeed plentiful when just picked up on the shoreline as payment for labor & goods but they devalue the very labor & goods being exchanged by there being so many of them ;-) 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:36 | Link to Comment OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

+1

 

Cheers

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:26 | Link to Comment Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

"real money...does not need anything outside of itself to be money"

 

What? You mean real money does not need a server?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:40 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

It does need a server unless you are transacting within horse and buggy range or sending your real money via pony express and/or ship.  In the meantime your competition is using faster and cheaper means of exchange, pricing you out of the market.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"Horse and buggy" can be supported via local trade and farmlands.  Can't say the same about silicon chips and all the oil that is actually required to PHYSICALLY move the shit that the electronic bit ordering triggers.

'My grandfather rode a camel, my father rode a camel, I drive a Mercedes, my son drives a Land Rover, his son will drive a Land Rover, but his son will ride a camel'.  -  Sheikh Rashid Bin Saeed Al Maktou

Again, people can talk all they want about what is used to trigger exchanges, and that's fine, but it ALL comes down to having to generate PHYSICAL action, which, I figure, will one day require that horse and buggy that you're attempting to ridicule.

BTW - Oxen and water buffalo are the "work horses" of the world.  Slow and steady wins the race...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:17 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Let me guess, you own a coin shop?  What industry are you in that you can spout off like this and still stay in business?  We can speculate about grid failure and Mad Max scenarios but I have competition in my sector Today.  I have customers I need to connect and trade with Today, In The Here And Now...  

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 06:25 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

what, all three of them, and on a Sunday to boot. Take a day off dude.

In fact do us all a favour and take a lot of days off.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:44 | Link to Comment tocointhephrase
tocointhephrase's picture

What if "he" said stand at the edge of a cliff, hang upside down for 24 hours or maybe urinate on that electric railway track. bah..baaah., ffs

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:38 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Are you kidding?  The mania will end when every single node on the network has shutdown and fonestar has shut up.  The mania is just beginning.  We are so fortunate as humans to be living in two different millenia (rare) and an epochal change like the advent of the crypto-currencies and private space flight.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

Mania is a very apt description.  It will inevitably swing back to its opposite. 

There's a disorder come to think of it.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:34 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Mania is a very apt description."

Try some of my high cryptose bit syrup and you can do it like me!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Your analogies are telling.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:58 | Link to Comment Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

At least you're having fun with it. 

Here's hoping you become a virtual gazillionaire, meet a hot virtual bit digger and live virtually forever in a palatial mansion on Second Life. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:00 | Link to Comment Bindar Dundat
Bindar Dundat's picture

I prefer to believe that the U.S. dollar has recovered novcely from it's huge fall last week.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:28 | Link to Comment Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

Of course that hot bit digger could be a dirk diggler, but you're never cashing out anyway so who cares?  She's got a ticket to ride.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:57 | Link to Comment johny2
johny2's picture

it is rare only if the time started aproximately 2014 years ago. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:28 | Link to Comment markelshark
markelshark's picture

The lamborghini dealership caused this crash, expect more:

http://piphut.com/2013/12/bitcoin-let-the-bearish-animal-spirits-begin/

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:09 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

When you put Tesla in the mix...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:41 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

This article is already outdated. Check the current price at >700.

Psst, somebody explain to Tyler the difference between a "crash" and "volatility".

And I'd also like to point out the fact that Bitcoin articles generate WAY more reads and comments than PM articles. Very telling.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:06 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

"If you want to keep your Tulips, you can keep your Tulips."

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:59 | Link to Comment PT
PT's picture

There was never a well-known limit of 21 000 000 tulips.  Not saying that bitcoin can't crash, but most people I know don't know / talk about bitcoin and I haven't heard of anyone mortgaging their house to buy one.  Tulips may have bounced, but I don't think anything has bounced the way bitcoin bounces ( but I don't know so feel free to show me if I'm wrong ).

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I didn't mortgage my house (I live in an attic) but I did sell all of my consumer electronics and pawned my toaster and vacuum cleaner to buy more Bitcoin.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:19 | Link to Comment PT
PT's picture

Sssshh!  Don't tell me that!  Oh, dammit, too late!  It must be a bubble then ...

8P 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:06 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I much prefer silver and gold to Bitcoin, but from where I sit, frankly, you look like a freaking genius. I hope you got in dirt cheap and that you make mountains of money.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:52 | Link to Comment Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

 

 

Assuming you bought some Bitcoins, how many would you have after an EMP pulse?

Assuming you bought some gold/silver/platinum coins/bullion, how many would you have after an EMP pulse?

What was it you said you were buying?

 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 02:23 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

If your property is atomized by a drone, how much gold do you have left?  If you are chased off of your estate before you can dig up your stash, how much gold would you have left?  My bitcoins are backed up on 500k+ computers all across the globe and I can use them from any wifi location anywhere.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:13 | Link to Comment OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Just bought some tulip bulbs!

Still relatively cheap, since... say, the 1600's?  

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:21 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Look, we are not saying it is easy to remain current and at the bleeding edge of technology.  Oftentimes it is painful, myself I am 35 stuck in an attic without references or basic necessities. 

What we are saying is that when something new comes along you need to get excited and dance like a monkey.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:29 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

"...when something new comes along you need to get excited and dance like a monkey."

Using Nature as my guide, I prefer to hang back and see what happens to the dancing monkeys before I make my move.   More often than not, dancing monkeys get snacked on by an aligator or leopard.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:35 | Link to Comment Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Hey, it worked for Steve Ballmer!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

Nothing like a piece of humble pie - trolls love it, as it seems....... feel so so sorry for your sorrow condition, I'm bursting into tears, right now..... but more on that "bleeding edge of technology" later...

Fools do make for great dancers (easily excitable, too), I'll give you that (make sure you don't spend it all on bitcoins, though)...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:18 | Link to Comment lewy14
lewy14's picture

Shame on everyone who downvoted that post.

fonestar was honest and told it like it is.

Here's some truth, fs:

- Gold is an option. It is some personal convexity. If you are lucky, you will die with it, and thus it will expire (like you) out of the money.

- BTC is... well... the bastard love child of a Lottery Ticket and a Dutch Tulip... so... yeah, pretty exciting, actually. In a monkey dancing kinda way. Good to know you're not confused on this point.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

HOW LONG Before BTC Is Back To Being A $4. CRYPTO Virtual Lotto Ticket ???

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:10 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Now, see if you can make the font bigger.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

That is not possible.  Because you are not able to see the vast superiority BTC enjoys over traditional currencies does not mean everyone is as blind as you.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:45 | Link to Comment Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

I predict it will soon be back in double digits and Fonestar will retrospectively claim he sold a significant portion above $1,000.

Typical of all pump and dump victims.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:51 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

The only Bitcoin I have sold so far was some around $130 to cover some debts.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:43 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:50 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

When are you going to sell the other two?

 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 02:28 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

why don't you at least ask him out on a date first?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:46 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Superiority has little to do with it.  Sony's Betamax was a way better format than VHS - yet which took hold?

The fact that you will not even admit (or discuss) any of BitCoin's negative attributes makes your comments little more than cheerleading.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:23 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

What "negative attributes"?  Do you not see the beauty in Bitcoin?

Cheerleader?  I am Satoshi's ranting zealot!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

I think you just made my point.  

Good luck in your faith that Satoshi Nakamoto is the virtual second coming of Christ tasked with smiting the banksters and money printers back to the pit, and that BC is his perfect creation.  Hope that works out for you.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:34 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Satoshi is coding for us what we could not code for ourselves.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

"Sony's Betamax was a way better format than VHS - yet which took hold?"

And I thought you were gonna say siver and gold Yet look what the fk we got.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

Is there a way to buy puts and calls on bitcoins?  Seriously.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:10 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Counterparty Risk?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:58 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

I'll take the bet and give you odds.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

"would you really die for your freedom or are you for sale?"

 

Freedom isn't free.  It costs a buck o' five.

And I would rather the Tylers continue to cover the most exciting developments in monetary history regardless of what sentimental luddites think about it.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:20 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Another thing for folks to keep in mind is that while gold has been enduring a globally co-ordinated beat-down that would make Rocky Marciano proud - and looks ready to come out of the corner swinging when the time is right, BitCoin has yet to suffer the slings and arrows of a real challenge from TPTB as yet.   

The real test is when BC gets slammed hard enough to shake the confidence in any above-board business.  BC may survive - but how high can it go if it has to stay hidden in the shadows?  

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:28 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I wish them all the luck in the world with their "slings and arrows".

You cannot kill an idea whose time has come.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:39 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

You might not be able to kill an idea - but you sure as hell could lose your ass if/when the imperfect implementation of that idea gets crushed by an unanticipated contingency.  Just saying that that the idea might not pan out quite like you expected.

Hedge accordingly.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

I take the Captain Reynolds philosophy to all this.

"This is how it is. Anybody doesn't wanna fly with me any more, this is your port of harbor. There's a lot of fine ways to die. I ain't waiting for the Alliance to choose mine."

The precious metal bugs can keep holding onto hope that the paper game will get undone while they keep getting slowly strangled to death. They may yet win the war of attrition but I am not waiting around to find out.

I absolutely believe in holding physical gold and silver but it is only one piece of the puzzle not the whole puzzle. It is not a one trick pony thing or putting all your eggs in one basket  You can either take a can do or can't do attitude to the way you approach things in life. No guarantees and no crying if it doesn't pan out.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:00 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

+ 100 for quoting Captain Mal!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

You cannot revive an idea whose time is done - works both ways, chump.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 21:57 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 You cannot kill an idea whose time has come.

So very true! The trick is knowing - beforehand - which 'idea'.

Ask any German who bought into Nazism back in the thirties. Fascism must have looked a lot like 'an idea whose time has come'.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:56 | Link to Comment JeffB
JeffB's picture

I don't understand why you're so upset about Zerohedge covering Bitcoin. I don't really have a dog in the fight as I don't own any Bitcoins, but it's an interesting concept that's obviously relevant to the world economy and finance. A number of people on Zerohedge own them and it's ov interest to others, of course, as it's a hot topic even in the mainstream media.

If you're not interested in the topic, why click on the link? Ignore the occasional story and your problem is solved.

If you think there are major problems with Bitcoin then this is a great opportunity for you to join in with the others who agree with you and point out the dangers and shortcomings. You have your bully pulpit to warn the unwary. If you don't want to take the time, at least others are there to do so... and once again, it's very easy to scroll on past the link and intro paragraph or two and go on to the next story, no?

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

Bearing dude.

While I can't comment on 1), 2) is worth the risk. Here's why: Bitcoin has value, its is not well understood, hence volitile, and it is ST technically on sale.

Bit Coin has value: No doubt you have read this letter on Reddit from Erik Vorhees, a man who is developing infrastructure in the space. the letter is in response to Peter Schiffs nonsensical takedown of the coin. http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1rxmk3/my_open_letter_to_peter_schiff_followup_from_the/

It goes up it goes down. I trade volatility. I don't care what the stock is. Show me a chart that's tradeable. Honestly I suck at trading, but I can trade this chart. Prolly beacuse, so far it is free from manipulation. (except this little bitch slap from China) But that's just a sign of progression along the line of first they ignore it, then they riddicule it, then they fight it. then it wins. Bitchslap lead to #winning! Anyhow refering to its value above. It aint going to zero, unless a name like the winklevi ditches which they wont, beacasue they get what Mr/ Vorhees gets, NETWORK EFFECT. So its on sale. Buy, buy buy.

Lets agree sentiment drives technicals. What scares a  CB? ANswer, BTC crushing the Gold Parity Price. Frankly if we are our own worst enemies, then what scares a trader? Answer: BTC crushing the gold price. So I submit gold parity price is strong overhead resistance but also magnetic, like the sun to Icarrus.  Hence look for a higher low here, as we develop an acendig triangle at gold parity. Buy low sell high, wash rinse repeat.

Medium term you gotta hold a core position as a lottery ticket for the next EM currency collapse, driven of course by taper talk. WSJ says taper on the horizon. Fuck that aint happening for long even if it sdoes happen. Did you read Hugh Hendry piece from last night. Fucking awesome shit. They cant taper so they have to print. But they will go ahead and try here in a bit. But it will only serve to crush some EM economy, and the markets. It should be BITCOIN Positive and might just be the fuse that explodes the BTC Gold parity price.

Long term...we are all dead anyhow. For now we gotta dance.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:13 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Thank you, lots to think about.  I appreciate it.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

I might add that FOFA's suggestion of 50,000k gold is a fun next level for the BTC. h/t to you for pointing me there.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:53 | Link to Comment linniepar
linniepar's picture

You either understand bitcoin or you don't. This just seemed like a good place to reply, fyi. Get a small position in btc and trade it accumulating more btc. It's fun and exciting. Do not go all in; that's what Au and Ag are for.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:43 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Or like anything else, those who think they understand, don't really understand.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:32 | Link to Comment Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Interesting read. I have the same sentiment about the next EM collapse or Cyprus. When, not if, it happens then only one bank will be open for the people who aren't connected....Bitcoin.

With respect to question 1. AFAIK, ASIC miners are still vaporware. I could be wrong but don't believe the spike has been seen yet. In any event, the same hardware is still being used by a lot of people who now have a tremendous amount of money. I suspect they will keep investing in what made them their fortunes.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:16 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Guess what also had value. Everquest gold farming.

 

RMT MMORPG.

"China used prisoners in lucrative internet gaming work"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/may/25/china-prisoners-internet-gaming-scam

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:18 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Ok look, I'm as skeptical as most of you are cynical, but if you rANTI BTC'ers  keep comparing somethings with a potential magnitude of infinity to somethings that are inherently finite and calling that an argument against BTC I'm going to have to start siding with effing fone' just on principle

THIS MEANS YOU SUDDEN DEBT

... the Achilles Heel of BTC has nothing to do with WoW 'gold' and everything to do with BTC holders who are willing to part with their digital coins for fiat paper, which opens it to manipulation by those who can issue unlimited amounts of fiat paper.

End of story.

Even fone' can admit to this.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:06 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

DCRB --

I do not think that the lower price will slow production much.  I believe that most miners probably have dedicated hardware, or belong to 'mining pools', or are using botnets to steal cycles from infected systems.

In any of those cases, I don't think the mining would be very sensitive to the BTC price.  If you have purchased several miners for a total of $4000, you will just keep them running and think of the 1800 watts as a kind of expensive space heater that might pay off with 1 BTC every few months.

It looks to me like the fixed price for the mining hardware roughly equals the expected price of the electricity that will be used to find each BTC.  ( And the power is free if you're using a botnet! )

That, plus the great uncertainty in what the BTC will be worth when you mine it, plus the hope that springs eternal in the human breast, will probably keep those miners running full tilt.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:17 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

Thank you as well, mick!

You see everyone?  By being decent, you can get good answers from people who know their stuff here at Zero Hedge!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:36 | Link to Comment Chewybunny
Chewybunny's picture

That's cuz there was no mention of any non-Anglo-Saxon minority.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

Can I cry on HER shoulder?  ad over there? ------>

Sure DCRB, but it'll cost you 1/4 coin an hour at 800...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:25 | Link to Comment dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

And here Virginia sums up the BitCoin Community (at least Mick's crew):

( And the power is free if you're using a botnet! )

Tell that to the person whose computer you infected you punk.

So all the crypto-anarchists "fighting the man" are trying to infect systems of innocent people so they can mine BitCoins. Stay Classy San Diego.

Sorry, DCRB, I'm not thanking Mick for his info. Oh, and tell Butterflylabs investors/prepayers if they agree with Mick.

End of the day BTC is a sleazy back alley casino with limited chips -- and a great trade if you're willing to risk it. All the other religious overlay is mental masturbation.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:49 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Sorry, I did not mean to sound like I was endorsing the theft of compute cycles (and power) through botnets.

Only describing.

Would it help if I had said "And the power is free if you're the kind of fucking sleazy backalley scumbags who are using botnets."  ?

I can translate into whatever language works.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 04:41 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Yes, nobody was ever robbed or tricked out of an ounce of gold.  Pickpockets, popular in earlier era literature, were a fictitious conspiracy among authors to sell more books.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:17 | Link to Comment dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Gee, I guess it's justified then.

And I believe Pickpockets, in those halycon days, were thrown in dungeons or had their hands cutoff. Now, they get new XBox one's.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:58 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

 

You see everyone?  By being decent, you can get good answers from people who know their stuff here at Zero Hedge!

Oh, I see it alright, but DO YOU, REALLY?...

( And the power is free if you're using a botnet! )

Need say more?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Plus, there are tens of millions of dollars tied up in pre-orders. Those people are going to mine, even at a loss of need be, hopping the future value of the bitcoins is higher. Especially the mining farm companies, since that is the entire company's purpose.

The price of bitcoin would have to fall much further for the newer ASICs to become unprofitable (at least, until March Mining Madness makes everyone lose money, unless bitcoin soars)

My miner consumes 150 watts of electricity at about $0.11 / KwH, and earns about 0.095 BTC per day now. I've been selling half and keeping half to make sure I am cashing out regularly, while also acquiring more BTC slowly. At this rate, it costs about $0.25 per day and at $700 Bitcoins, I'm still getting around $35 per day. If Bitcoins fell down to $7 each, I'd still be running a slim profit, though I'd probably stop selling.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

This sounds like a very wise strategy.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

What overhead if any is there, and what was the initial outlay for the miner?   How quickly will the amount mined per day regress?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:55 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

$2000, plus $200 shipping, $280 tax, $100 for a power supply, so about $2600. Overhead is cost of powering 150 watt machine - $0.40 per day tops, but the waste heat is contributing to heating my home, so it is not much of a loss.

Income has been dropping about 20% every 10 days in BTC, due to more miners coming online. The machine has paid for itself (sold enough BTC and cashed out to bank account in dollars).

I expect a steady drop in profitability of 20% every 10 days to continue (in BTC; I have no expectations as to $ earnings), until March, when I expect 40% every 6 days or so as the next generation of equipment rolls out. 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:58 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I won't comment on the above strategies, but I don't see the point in giving away priceless info (after a LOT of "due diligence" research and analysis), so that people I have never met can "front-run", for free.

People who do, must either have the quality of their info questioned, or their IQ or sanity questioned -- as they clearly fail the "useful fool" or "schmuck" test.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Great data points, Matt, thank you very much as well!

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:07 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

See I have a different strategy when it comes to mining but then again I don't have an ASIC unit. The general idea is that SHA-256 based coins are just not worth mining without an ASIC rig or you can do it without incurring an electricity cost so I've been mining scrypt based coins which in general are profitable still to mine targeting ones with low difficulty. Then I artbitrage trade a percentage to increase profitability and cash out enough to pay the electric costs and take the rest of the profit and reinvest. The other end of the strategy is to park some of that profit into good candidate alt coins that have potential to bring similiar rates of return bitcoin did over the long term, each of the alt coins have their own potential strengths and weaknesses, short term vs long and I personally believe there is money to be made if you can correctly assess them and position accordingly along with being able to adjust on the fly as the stengths and weaknesses evolve/devolve. I keep almost nothing in bitcoin itself except a few dollars as lottery ticket bet. The end result is if I recoup my initial investment which I have and can generate at least enough to pay the costs to run the operation everything else at this point is a longer term bet as opposed to being a get rich quick scheme. I truely believe crypto-currency is here to stay in some form or another. To me bitcoin is the equivalent of mp3 right towards the end of early adopter stage in the terms of where we are right now in the maturation cycle for crypto-currencies in general. It is a general system and as such I try to approach from that standpoint.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:02 | Link to Comment dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

So you're running as a FOREX hedge fund model then? I'm not being a wise-ass.

Don't you think there is the problem that you have to have an exchange willing to onboard new crytos you are mining otherwise you have no conversion path -- or at least a path that is somewhat liquid -- and your costs become hard to estimate.

The scrypt based POW coins saturate so fast, I'm not sure how profitable they are going to be going forward. With the explosion of cryptos, how do you navigate and allocate resources in your model. Eventually everyone is going to have to take a deep breath and prune the crypto tree. The one's that are put to sleep are going to be worthless and all that effort goes poof and you can't write them off on your P&L.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

I see the alt coins as purely speculation, since they are only mined and bought/sold based on betting they will increase in value; I do not see real world goods and services being bought and sold for them. Litecoin, Namecoin, and a few others as possible exceptions. If I wanted to sepculate, I would have just bought bitcoins and I'd be rich now. I guess that's the downside to trying to earn money gradually over time, providing a service, rather than just gambling.

The best bet I can see as far as scrypt would be to try to get one of the first scrypt ASIC miners, and then you can mine whatever coins you want and use the superior hash rates to make money fast before everyone else catches up.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 21:06 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

"I see the alt coins as purely speculation, since they are only mined and bought/sold based on betting they will increase in value"

Isn't that what moved bitcoin from being a fringe thing to a serious contender. If you follow the historical price movement charts, bitcoin didn't really start appreciating in value until the first exchanges were up and running. Cyprus also helped and there is most likely more of them on the short term horizon.

And as far as the real world thing give it time litecoin is making serious in roads right now and is being accepted by more and more people for donation purposes and selling goods. You are seeing demand side economics at work here. Bitcoin just opened the door for a now evolving system and like any diverse system there will be plenty of evolutionary dead ends as the system evolves. Bitcoin may wind up being a victim of it's own success but the infrastructure will remain and as long as demand for crypto-currencies remain one of these purely speculation alt coins or some new and improved variation will step in to fill the void.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 20:31 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

The exchanges already exist and they do have conversion paths.

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/

CryptoCoinCharts.info is storing 33,607,750 trades of 190 currency pairs, fetched from 23 exchanges.

Total marketcap of all Altcoins (without BTC) is 1,001,740.00 BTC and the total 24h volume traded with all trading pairs in the cryptocurrency altcoin universe is 936,841.00 BTC.

To put that in perspective based on the quoted BTC price in USD of 708.99 at the time of this posting the total marketcap for above in USD is $710,232,658.26 and the volume movement in USD is $66,418,892.19

That is not small numbers when you are dealing altcoins worth in the average range of under ~$10 USD per coin.

This also lists them by market cap in order from highest to lowest

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/coins/info

And a graphical representation of trade volume combined across the 23 exchanges they track for all the coins. Bitcoin and litecoin by far are the largest but some of the other coins move also as you can see.

http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/v2/coins/graphicalComparison

The demand will kill most these crypto-currencies off in the long term but trading volume is good a indicator to which ones are currently in demand. Those are not the ones you want to mine in general those are the ones you want to park in and look for arbitrage opportunities for trading purposes. Look at the charts and track the volume across all the currencies that is good indicator of which ones are better bets than others to park in as opposed to use strictly for arbitrage trade purposes on the exchanges.

As far as scrypt coins go it works for now you can calculate the profitability of mining all these different currencies. You can either mining at a loss which is where bitcoin is now unless you want to outlay a couple of thousand dollars for an asic miner and hope what you do mine appreciates enough to offset those losses and possibly make a profit on top of it or mine things that are profitable to mine after electricity costs and work a trading/park it in a potential altcoin for awhile and wait it out until that altcoin appreciates. Look those under 10 dollar ones if a dollar one appreciates to 2 that is 100% return.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment thisandthat
thisandthat's picture

 

I've been selling half and keeping half to make sure I am cashing out regularly, while also acquiring more BTC slowly.

Makes total sense to me.....

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:29 | Link to Comment Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

Bitcoin is like really bad "art" made from gold.

"But I worked SO HARD, so it's worth more than just gold".

Only difference is, YOU CANT MELT IT AND SELL IT.

Or replace a tooth with it.

BECAUSE SHE'S NOT THERE...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 15:37 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

DoChenRollingBearing

My personal advice would be to sell on the dead cat bounce.

Bitcoin will eventually go to zero; it is too intangible, and since it requires computers and the Internet it is hack-able, track-able, and not stack-able.

I know, it uses math, infallible math - used by fallible people and groups of people.

If you can afford to lose the money and want to "play in the mud" as they say have fun.

If it would hurt you to lose the money I would get out and watch from the sidelines.

Advice is like rice; easy to give - hard to cook.

Best of luck.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:02 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

"Bitcoin will eventually go to zero" Exactly. If your wealth is tied up on a computer screen, as a function of the wizard of oz, you might want to keep a parachute handy.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:38 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

This also describes the USD, to a "T".

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:48 | Link to Comment Lamarth
Lamarth's picture

To Beginning Bitcoin Bearing:

ASICs are not worth switching off at current difficulty levels, even the 65 nm, unless price falls down to the $100s.  This is changing, but most ASICs were *bad* deals for $130 BTC due to poor RoI, not electricity costs.  At $300+, everyone's a winner.

GPU mining would almost have been worth switching *back* on up over $1000 per BTC, except that LTC/FTC/WDC became stupidly profitable at the same time.

Either way, actual output can vary, but not too much due to the difficulty rebalancing.  I don't think variability of supply is a major factor in BTC.

 

I *am* BTFD.  I had my buy order from before the crash at a price equivalent to $540, because I'm trying to fill my pockets but don't want to do it at a high point.  Missing the spike down by that little has me crying.  The price of BTC on various exchanges inverted near the bottom, tipping me off if I cared to act (mtgox < bitstamp < btc-e < btc-china - that can't be stable, especially if the plunge is caused by a chinese panic), but I held on to the hope that I'd get filled.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:22 | Link to Comment indygo55
indygo55's picture

I bought Bitcoin in April at around $95 right before the Mt Gox and Dwolla connection got shut down. Since then I can't seem to wire any money to Mt Gox or BTC-E to buy more or arrange to have money wired back to my bank. When I ask what is the problem I get silence. So gathering that the FED and SWIFT and all the merry bankers are slowly draining our economy of real value and Bitcoin like PM is a threat to their cartel, I don't wonder any more about what is happening. I sold some Bitcoins to a guy on Craigs list last week for about $1400 per coin for Fed reserve $20 notes. I charged and received a premium because there was a big move up and people were screaming to get them. I took the pile of notes and drove to my local coin shop and converted the notes into some gold and silver coins. I still have some more Bitcoins but to sell them online in the US looks scary. To buy them seems impossible but no one is talking. So in the US its already pretty controlled and I imagine the folks who are buying and selling them on line are outside of the SWIFT system like in Russia, Brazil and China. Can't speak for Europe or Japan, where MT Gox is located. 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:48 | Link to Comment Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Indeed, the exchanges are the weak point. I recently found a new startup in Oz that works great (only for Oz bank accounts though) google Coinjar.

I often use Paypal. If you want to sell BTC to me in Oz for example I can instantly transfer US to your Paypal account and you can instantly send BTC to me ?  Requires trust in trading partner though. This can be alleviated somewhat if you send PayPAl invoice detailing transaction and I pay that as I can dispute receipt of the product and if you can't show evidence of it being sent I can get a refund ... not solid but worked so far ?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:47 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

TPTB are already trying to slow down and frustrate the challenge from the Au and Btc competition. So...

Since my parents did not raise a fool, I would not go spoon-feeding their trolls on this site, to make their jobs easier.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Good observation from a "beginner" indeed depending on electricty costs etc some may turn off their ASIC farms as they operate on a profit basis which will lower the difficulty factor.

Definitely bought the dip .  problem is it happenes when banks are closed so if you don't have the cash in your exchange account you can't move ... and the crappy exchanges grind to halt on heavy volume and have 30 day delays on account verification which you need to get FIAT in and out.

Very early days ... expect big swings, accumulate on dips and hold.

If you need to just use it as a currency to transfer money quickly and cheaply the price doesn't matter ?  Buy, transfer, Sell takes about 30 mins so minimal exposure to the volatility.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:21 | Link to Comment lewy14
lewy14's picture

@DoChenRollingBearing: re AU vs BTC - see my comment here.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:41 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Plllllease STOP COMPARING GLD And GOLD ...
GLD Is Electonic FLUFF On Existing On hardrives, NO BACKING (Not Even The
Money Chargers)...
GOLD Is 8000+ Years Old MONEY/HARD METAL, ART, Etc Etc ETC...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

But now wait a minute.

I heard gold is made in supernova explosions.

So just one nearby supernova explosion, and the gold market could really tank!

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:20 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Would an Obama implosion make gold as well?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Wait until the space age really kicks into high gear and asteroid mining operations become viable. Gold bugs might as well eat lead at that point since the scarcity arguement for it's value is going to be no longer valid. But that is still a long way off assuming we don't go extinct due to the shortsighted narrow minded views of the world the majority of our species seems to take concerning everything.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:54 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

You know, I'm not sure about that.

I don't think the asteroids used to be part of a planet, se we have no idea how the gold might be distributed in them. 

If it's spread out evenly, then you need a mass spectrometer to get it out.  On the other hand, we have about 10% of asteroids that are nickel-iron, and 90% are carbonaceous, so ....  so I *still* don't know!

 

Also, did you know that if you could extract all the gold and silver from the solar system -- they would have almost equal scarcity?  Silver is only more plentiful in the Earth's crust than gold, because silver is more chemically active than gold.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:12 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Silver is only more plentiful in the Earth's crust than gold, because silver is more chemically active than gold.

They're both elements - so how can their chemical reactivity have an effect on their quantity?

Or are you saying silver's reactivity has meant it has migrated up from deeper layers into the Earth's crust where we can mine it?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:13 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Yes that's right -- since silver is not inert (for all practical purposes) like gold, you can have silver ore, which is no denser than any other kind of rock.  You don't get gold ore, though. 

Gold-bearing rock just has little chunks of gold in it, and gold is a lot denser than average rock.   Seven times denser!  Which translates to much less gold than silver making it up the depths where humans can get at it.

 

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

OMG....but.....but.... Gold has no backing either! We're all doomed!

Miffed;-)

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Sure it does.

Gold and silver back each other.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 18:12 | Link to Comment Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

What's a Bitcoin?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 23:10 | Link to Comment sixbilliondollarman
sixbilliondollarman's picture

FUCK YOU BITCHCOIN.

GOLD AND SILVER WERE MONEY BEFORE MONEY WAS!

******************************************

WHERE'S THAT SHITCOIN DICKFACE THAT WAS BELITTLING A STACKER & HIS "SHINEY COIN COLLECTION"?

WHO'S STILL GOT A DICK NOW?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

GO STICK YOUR ARCADE TOKENS uP YOUR ASSHOLE.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evnEW4lFVec

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:45 | Link to Comment dasein211
dasein211's picture

I was kinda hoping for a crash down to 200$.... I really wanna own 10-30....
It's amazing how people don't see the potential. If I was in Europe if have cash ready to leave through bitcoin at a moments notice. It's like they think their money is safe in a bank or something. Ps- I own gold and silver as well. I'll just make sure I have more than one exit unlike the retards all heading for the same door.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:48 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

I'm just happy we can buy more cheap BTC in the three digits again.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:51 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

you never know, might even make it down to single digits eh?

or maybe even zero, then you can buy them all...

fuckin' wacko.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

This is just the 3rd hot money bubble in bitcoin of many more to come. First bubble was from 20 cents to $16, second one was from $16 to $250, third one was from $150 to $1,200 ....... Should be interesting to see where #4 and 5 take us

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

what, 10 or 20?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

"Money" must serve three functions:

1) Unit of account

2) Medium of Exchange

3) Store of value

I hate fiat and bankers just as much as the rest of you ZHr's, but Bitcoin fails at #3. Indeed, it is beginning to have problems with #2, as some high-profile merchants stop accepting it as payment. Can you blame a merchant for refusing to take a "currency" that can lose half its value in less than a week?

Thanks, but I'll stick with my bullion...

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

Money and currecny are 2 different things that serve 2 different functions.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:52 | Link to Comment Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Would you have any problem with your employer paying you in lottery tickets?

After all, the potential for huge gains is there, but you run the risk that they will all become worthless.

 

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 12:58 | Link to Comment Quus Ant
Quus Ant's picture

So you're saying I'm going to be a millionaire?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!