This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Guest Post: The State Causes The Poverty It Later Claims To Solve

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Andreas Marquart of The Ludwig von Mises Institute,

If one looks at the current paper money system and its negative social and social-political effects, the question must arise: where are the protests by the supporters and protectors of social justice? Why don’t we hear calls to protest from politicians and social commentators, from the heads of social welfare agencies and leading religious leaders, who all promote the general welfare as their mission?

Presumably, the answer is that many have only a weak understanding of the role of money in an economy with a division of labor, and for that reason, the consequences of today’s paper money system are being widely overlooked.

The current system of fractional reserve banking and central banking stands in stark opposition to a market economy monetary regime in which the market participants could decide themselves, without state pressure or coercion, what money they want to use, and in which it would not be possible for anyone to expand the money supply because they simply choose to do so.

The expansion of the money supply, made possible through central banks and fractional reserve banking, is in reality what allows inflation, and thus, declining income in real terms. In The Theory of Money and Credit Ludwig von Mises wrote:

The most important of the causes of a diminution in the value of money of which we have to take account is an increase in the stock of money while the demand for it remains the same, or falls off, or, if it increases, at least increases less than the stock. ... A lower subjective valuation of money is then passed on from person to person because those who come into possession of an additional quantity of money are inclined to consent to pay higher prices than before.

When there are price increases caused by an expansion of the money supply, the prices of various goods and services do not rise to the same degree, and do not rise at the same time. Mises explains the effects:

While the process is under way, some people enjoy the benefit of higher prices for the goods or services they sell, while the prices of the things they buy have not yet risen or have not risen to the same extent. On the other hand, there are people who are in the unhappy situation of selling commodities and services whose prices have not yet risen or not in the same degree as the prices of the goods they must buy for their daily consumption.

Indeed, in the case of the price of a worker’s labor (i.e., his or her wages) increasing at a slower rate than the price of bread or rent, we see how this shift in the relationship between income and assets can impoverish many workers and consumers.

An inflationary money supply can cause impoverishment and income inequality in a variety of ways:


1. The Cantillon Effect

The uneven distribution of price inflation is known as the Cantillon effect. Those who receive the newly created money first (primarily the state and the banks, but also some large companies) are the beneficiaries of easy money. They can make purchases with the new money at goods prices that are still unchanged. Those who obtain the newly created money only later, or do not receive any of it, are harmed (wage-earners and salaried employees, retirees). They can only buy goods at prices which have, in the meantime, risen.

2. Asset Price Inflation

Investors with greater assets can better spread their investments and assets and are thus in a position to invest in tangible assets such as stocks, real estate, and precious metals. When the prices of those assets rise due to an expansion of the money supply, the holders of those assets may benefit as their assets gain in value. Those holding assets become more wealthy while people with fewer assets or no assets either profit little or cannot profit at all from the price increases.


3. The Credit Market Amplifies the Effects

The effects of asset price inflation can be amplified by the credit market. Those who have a higher income can carry higher credit in contrast to those with lower income, by acquiring real estate, for example, or other assets. If real estate prices rise due to an expansion of the money supply, they may profit from those price increases and the gap between rich and poor grows even faster.

4. Boom and Bust Cycles Create Unemployment

The direct cause of unemployment is the inflexibility of the labor market, caused by state interference and labor union pressures. An indirect cause of unemployment is the expansion of the paper money supply, which can lead to illusory economic booms that in turn lead to malinvestment. Especially in inflexible labor markets, when these malinvestments become evident in a down economy, it ultimately leads to higher and more lasting unemployment that is often most severely felt among the lowest-income households.

The State Continues to Expand

Once the gap in income distribution and asset distribution has been opened, the supporters and protectors of social justice will more and more speak out, not knowing (or not saying) that it is the state itself with its monopolistic monetary system that is responsible for the conditions described.

It’s a perfidious “business model” in which the state creates social inequality through its monopolistic monetary system, splits society into poor and rich, and makes people dependent on welfare. It then intervenes in a regulatory and distributive manner, in order to justify its existence. The economist Roland Baader observed:

The political caste must prove its right to exist, by doing something. However, because everything it does, it does much worse, it has to constantly carry out reforms, i.e., it has to do something, because it did something already. It would not have to do something, had it not already done something. If only one knew what one could do to stop it from doing things.

The state even exploits the uncertainty in the population about the true reasons for the growing gap in income and asset distribution. For example, The Fourth Poverty and Wealth Report of the German Federal Government states that since 2002, there has been a clear majority among the German people in favor of carrying out measures to reduce differences in income.



The reigning paper money system is at the center of the growing income inequality and expanding poverty rates we find in many countries today. Nevertheless, states continue to grow in power in the name of taming the market system that has supposedly caused the impoverishment actually caused by the state and its allies.

If those who claim to speak for social justice do nothing to protest this, their silence can only have two possible reasons. They either don’t understand how our monetary system functions, in which case, they should do their research and learn about it; or they do understand it and are cynically ignoring a major source of poverty because they may in fact be benefiting from the paper money system themselves.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:02 | 4225823 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"The direct cause of unemployment is the inflexibility of the labor market, caused by state interference and labor union pressures."

Yes, those ever increasing wages of the middle class in the U.S. and ever stronger labor unions in the U.S. are the root cause of the problem.    Germany is a good example of how paying workers less will create a strong economy as preached by the Mises Institute of Oligarch Propaganda.TM  Careful, though, you need to read this article backwards or in a mirror to get the pro-oligarch version preached by the Ministry of Mises.

"In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany’s big three car companies—BMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz ), and Volkswagen—are very profitable."



Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:11 | 4225858 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Wait... what?

I have no idea the point you're trying to make.  I've lost track of the serious comments vs. the sarcasm.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:49 | 4225884 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Let me break it down for you.

Unions in the U.S. have massively shrunk over the last few decades.

Middle class income in the U.S. has massively decreased over the last few decades.

U.S. corporations already have ready access to cheap "elastic" labor in a deregulated environment where they can pollute to their hearts' content, house workers in dorms with "safety nets" to keep them from committing suicide, where they can hide their income and avoid taxation, etc (see China).  It doesn't work for the economy, though it works great for the CEOs of said corporations.  

The increase in wealth at the top does not trickle down.  It stays at the top and the workers get poorer.

Germany has a strong union workforce and pays it workers twice as much as their American counterparts, and it is a model of prosperity.

The Mises Institute is pushing for a solution that has already been tried and failed.  It is simply mind boggling that anyone who has lived through the last 40 years (I'm guessing you are not one) can read a statement like the one I quoted in the top post and not just laugh out loud at how ridiculous it is.  Mises is shilling for oligarchs, trying to convince mindless sheep to give the oligarchs more power and workers less.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:08 | 4225965 lewy14
lewy14's picture

Tried and failed?

Detroit is a post-industrial wasteland because the UAW wasn't strong enough?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:13 | 4225972 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Detroit is a post-industrial wasteland because elastic labor came along and replaced the workers, the solution posed by the Mises Shillstitute.  And unions were corrupt and management decided to build shitty cars so people would need to replace them every few years and a lot of other reasons that have nothing to do with paying workers too much or allowing workers to bargain collectively.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:21 | 4225991 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Does this mean that the New Deal ended the Great Depression and LBJ solved the poverty problem? And why are you on this forum? Health needs you.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:24 | 4225998 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Does this mean that you will continue to change the subject every time you don't have an answer to what I say?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:36 | 4226020 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Sure, why not.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:41 | 4226032 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Hey, if it's all you've got, go with it.  I've banged my head against the wall of ideology long enough.  Carry on.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:52 | 4226065 lewy14
lewy14's picture

It doesn't much matter anymore, LTER.

There is some truth in what you say.

And a great deal of mythic, heroic narrative. A tale of dastardly deeds and righteous victims. Everybody's got a narrative. It's just mildly irritating to me that you glom so uncritically onto yours. I'll get over it.

Like I said, it doesn't matter. Capital is no longer so dependent on labor.

Of course the joke is on Capital, because Naked Power is no longer so dependent on Capital.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:17 | 4226105 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Let make this simple for Rand.  The rich have a private counterfeiting bank (Federal Reserve) that they use to finance whatever they want through the counterfeiting money process. 

It does not matter what the union wages are or minimum wage.  That is simply a distraction the bankers throw out there for the feeble minded who cannot figure out the con game.

It, minimum wage, union wage could be $100 per hour and it would matter little because the rich can have their private bank print up enough money so the elites can make $1,000 per hour or whatever the hell they want.

Living standards are determined by what your money buys, not your nominal wage.  Germans make 33% less than Americans. 

Germany exports so much in the EU because they were allowed to essentially devalue their currency 40% when they joined the EU.  Well fuck yea they were going to be the export leader with that kind of price advantage, and they make some good stuff.

What von Mises has repeatedly said time and time again is workers need to be paid in money, gold, that bankers and the elites cannot devalue as they please.

100% fractional reserve banking, gold, private currencies backed by gold.  Simple as 1, 2, 3.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:08 | 4226672 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

That is not all that Mises is pushing.  I agree we need to end the Fed.   I voted for RP because he wanted to end the Fed, the MIC (which exists because of the Fed), and many other things I agree with.  But that's where my agreement with Mises ends.  It is simply not a solution to put all the power in the hands of the giant corporations by completely deregulating them and eliminating worker protection laws, which is the other paradigm that Mises advocates.    As usual when these debates surface on ZH, it seems that everyone must go into an all or nothing camp, or assume that anyone who disagrees with them is in the "other" camp.  That type of binary thinking is exactly what is wrong with the world today and why these guys remain in power.  No one can agree to meet in the middle on anything.

How about this.  Let's end the Fed.  First order of business.  Then, after the Fed is gone, let's debate what to do with the issue of globalist corporations and the right of workers to bargain collectively.  But if we can only agree to End the Fed if it means everything else Mises is pushing, we'll never get there and we'll be ... here.  Right where they want us.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:22 | 4226693 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Regulations favor the big corporations.  The best way for workers to protect themselves is to have their day in a court of law.  The second one I have witnessed firsthand in construction over three decades.  Regulations are ignored, million dollar law suits change behavior.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:57 | 4226752 oldschool
oldschool's picture

I agree with everything you've said on this issue up to this point, but million dollar lawsuits generally go pretty well for corporations fighting workers.  Moreover, contrasting lawsuits to regulations, as if they were alternatives, is fallacious.  WIthout the regulations on which to base a complaint, there is no lawsuit.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:09 | 4227739 jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

Ditch the concept of corporation.

Make everybody responsible for every decision they make.

You would be amazed at how responsible Jamie Diamond becomes when HE has to pay a billion dollar fine.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 23:31 | 4228270 zhandax
zhandax's picture

Finally someone gets it.  Limitation of  liability is the cornerstone of the economic ills of today.  There is far different behavior from companies when it's their personal money on the line.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:16 | 4226113 JR
JR's picture

Right on all three counts. The question is, how long will Americans allow the multinational corporations to force them to compete against workers willing to do the same job in a different country for a fraction of the cost? America did not grow from the use of slave labor under the whip of global exploiters; it grew by recognizing the value of labor and paying a fair wage.

GM in 2007 began replacing its high-paid work force (earning $78.21 in wages and benefits – about $162,676 annually ) with low-paid non-core, non-assembly line new hires (costing $25.65 in combined wages and benefits), in a contract negotiated in 2006 – after the straw broke the camel’s back.  The article “United Auto Workers (UAW) Sellout at GM and Chrysler” by Sephen Lendman on Global Research (October 22, 2007) gave the details of the UAW sellout. How much government interference was involved in forcing the companies to bow to former Union demands is unclear, or later in acquiescing to globalist pressures for low wages. As for the cars GM was producing, my dad bought his last American made car in 1976 and was afraid to lean too heavily on it for fear it would dent.

Somewhat contradicting Forbes, an article by Justin Hyde of Yahoo Motoramic on December 19, 2011, reports Germany autoworkers were earning $40 an hour. It is not clear if this wage included benefits as did Forbes’ quote of $67.14 in 2010.

Wrote Hyde: “Autoworker wages in the United States run from $30/hour for long-time UAW employees at Detroit plants to $14 for an entry-level worker at some U.S. automakers and the Kia plant in Georgia. (Contractors and suppliers who work inside plants get that $9/hour wage). In Germany, wages run about $40 an hour. In Japan, they're closer to the $28 a senior UAW employee earns here. In both countries, governments provide the health care and retirement benefits paid for by the automakers here. “In Mexico, autoworkers average roughly $3.50 an hour -- and even that wage was under pressure, as some suppliers sought wage cuts to compete with work moving to China where wages can run $5 a day…”

Will Americans rebel before the globalists level all men - including America's private sector middle class - to the lowest common denominator?

All Germans, however, may not fare as well as German autoworkers. PY-129-20, from Germany, wrote on ZH in March of 2013: The average person in Italy or Spain is now richer than the average German.

On 01/28/2012, PY-129-20 wrote:

"….We Germans exported very well before the EURO experiment started. You think it is because of the Euro that we export so much? Nope. It's because of the cheap labour in my country. Unlike our European neighbours we do not have a minimum wage. There are people out there in Germany that work for 1 Euro per hour. Can you top that? I guess slavery is the next hip thing here… More and more Germans are waking up every morning knowing that they will never be able to retire…"


Capitalism involves the private ownership of the means of production. It does not mean stealing the means of production which describes where this banker-controlled world is headed.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:35 | 4226498 adr
adr's picture

Capitalism requires private ownership is the most important part. Allowing others not associated with a company in any way, other than handing over money for shares, distorts the economy. The purpose of a company is no longer to produce a quality product, but to produce whatever will increase the value of those shares. The quickest way to increase share value is through fraud. 

We now have corporations bypassing the useful product stage, starting out as fraud in order to go straight to the riches received through selling shares.

You rid the world of the stock market and you fix most of the problems.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:21 | 4226643 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Agreed.  The corporate form is one of those things that everyone takes for granted as a necessary evil.  It is not.   What the Mises Institute of Globalist Policy completely fails to recognize is that the same guys who are corrupting the government are the ones who will run things in their desired system.  The idea that the consumer will not buy a product produced by slave labor in China, thus protecting workers via the free market, is demonstrably false.  We already know that because it's already happening.  What Mises pushes is a race to the bottom for the vast majority of people who do not own the capital, which is the same thing Rand teaches.  If you are lucky enough to be an oligarch that system works great.  

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:16 | 4227441 venturen
venturen's picture

You miss so much of the capitalistic system. I agree the bank system in the USA is a criminal mafia. But according to many of the people on this site we should still be making customer cars with artisans. The UAW workers were WAY over paid for what they did at the peak. If the UAW spent more time improving the quality of the work and improving the workers....American cars would be in demand. Who wants a GM or Product made in 70's, 80's or 90's. Their product was crap....and the union and management made it that way. Capitalism workers unless you get an dumb oligrachy like the US Auto or banker slitting their own throats. The US banks should have been allowed to fail! Instead we have a 1970 era of the internal power demanding more money for themselves....while the product get worse and worse. How about the 90% of hedgefund managers take 2+20% that can't match the S&P avg increase. The importation of illegals is very destructive as well. 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:02 | 4227544 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

+1.  LETTHEMEATRAND is a union troll ballwasher.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:59 | 4227538 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

How much do the UAW workers make per hour including benefits?   It ain't $34 per hour. 


Mon, 12/09/2013 - 20:54 | 4231182 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

Herny Ford doubled the going wage of his workers. Ford claimed he gained 1000 new customers for every dollar he dropped the price of his product. It was ~$800 to build a Model T, and five years later was ~$400. Ford was a modern genius, but carry on with the drivel, it was Mises vs. the worker, something like that, or maybe certain people didn't like other people like Ford, running his business in ways that forced them to compete. Detroit may be their example to people getting all uppity and changing the status quo, impowering people. The slave training goes deep in all societies.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:30 | 4226141 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Strawman arguments. Mind the currency detruction.

If corporations exist, and/or money is debased by a central authority for fairness in counterfeiting, then markets ARE NOT DEREGULATED.


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:21 | 4226573 Four chan
Four chan's picture

the money issue is the only issue i agree. end the fed

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 03:33 | 4226282 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

"Unions in the U.S. have massively shrunk over the last few decades."



Not public sector unions.  They've grown astronomically over the last few decades and they're bleeding out both federal and state budgets, blowing holes through pension gaps and destabilizing the muni bond markets.  Look at TSA as just one example.  A year after Bush knights those fuckers into every airport across the country, they... wait for it... unionize.

So, the very people that should unionize can't because of cheap labor from China competing against them and the ones that never should have, are.  Got it.  If you take the fact that every teacher is now a union thug parasite using state violence through property tax confiscation to pad their pension scam, AND, giving you less and less reason via test scores to support such an abusive system and then you throw in cops, firemen, judges, librarians, postal workers and all the other B2B that lever to govt. you can reliably say that we're probably at 50% of the entire American workforce is unionized to some extent or another due to some connection, either direct or indirectly, to the public sector.



Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:36 | 4226812 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

"A year after Bush knights those fuckers into every airport across the country, they... wait for it... unionize."

Tom Daschle took GW to the cleaners with this one. Remember his slogan -"We have to postalize to professionalize" - in other words, only federal employees are capable of doing a professional job. All he wanted was to get the union in there and funnel campaign contributions to the Democrat party.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 03:52 | 4226288 UGrev
UGrev's picture

1. Unions are a type of oligarch. They take YOUR money and claim to be able to protect you all the while the UNION leaders are rolling with nice gear. 

2. Unions are the very thing that prevents prosperity by STEALING IT from the very workers it says it is trying to protect. How? by virtually guaranteeing that they cannot be impacted by poor workmanship. This, in turn, negatively affects that ability of the company to make money and thus pay its employees. The UNION is the entity that eventually and parasitically, sucks the life out of a company. 

3. The heavy hand of government regulation has produced a void of plausible and viable busniess growth by making it too restrictive to actually, you know.. make stuff. This has forced companies to decide or die. Those that decide to leave the shark pit offer prosperity to other countries and leave our workers without jobs. THIS.. it is THIS that weakens our middle class the most. 

4. Idiots who want 15.00/hr minimum are being replaced because they are too fucking stupid to understand that their demands are not market bearing. They have just priced themselves out of the market.. They just gave their job to the tablet maker who probably employs people in one of those buildings with nets that you talk about. 

In the corner of the round room.. there is a clue..  go find it. 


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 08:08 | 4226392 Doña K
Doña K's picture

You were very close in saying it but you just implied it. Protection money, mafia squeeze tactics, political donations to legitimize their tactics and using the union fees as a hedge fund. They can't loose.

Organized crime (Mafia), organized religions and insurance companies capitalize on human fear.

We do not submit, our beliefs are private and we are self insured.


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:12 | 4226638 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So because unions became corrupt, we should not allow workers to bargain collectively?  It's not a black and white issue.  Unions were part of the problem, no doubt.   But like any corruption, Union corruption can be addressed and the problem fixed.   Before laws were passed protecting the rights of workers, corporations simply fired anyone who dared breathe the word "union," or they would use violence on union organizers, which how this author would like to see the world.  

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:22 | 4226691 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

You know what the ultimate problem is LTER. It's that the private sector and the public sector have been successfully put at war with each other. While the private sector has been getting destroyed the last however many years the public sector has turned a blind eye and just watched while their promises were not endangered. So now that we are about to get to the point where the Detroit's start popping up and the pensioners with free healthcare get served a shit sandwich they will look around and watch the private sector shrug and say "it's about time".

That's where this is going. I am not saying it's right. But it's been planned this way.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:47 | 4226833 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Spot on.  And the best part is that the private sector gets mad at the public sector workers who still have quaint little things like pensions, rather than getting mad at the oligarchs who have sold the idea that you should work 'till you drop unless you are one of the few who can save enough individually to be prepared to live to 100.  I'll bet once the public sector workers get fleeced, they will get mad at the few remaining private sector workers who still have decent pay, and so on until the sheep have slaughtered each other.  And all the while Jamie Dimon will remind us that this is why he has more money than we do.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:09 | 4227563 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Your phoney moral equivalence makes me sick.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:02 | 4227708 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So seeing shades of gray is moral equivalence?  All in or all out?    Let me clue you in on something.  Seeing only black and white means you are an idiot and/or simple-minded.  But I don't have to tell you that.  You have all the answers.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:23 | 4226484 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"U.S. corporations already have ready access to cheap "elastic" labor in a deregulated environment where they can pollute to their hearts' content, house workers in dorms with "safety nets" to keep them from committing suicide, where they can hide their income and avoid taxation, etc (see China).  It doesn't work for the economy, though it works great for the CEOs of said corporations."

So China overall is getting poorer right? Oops.  Now go over in the corner, shut up, and put on the dunce cap.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:33 | 4226594 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

At least someone finally came out and said that China is the model that the Mises Institute is pushing.   Thanks for the clarification, but no thanks.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:32 | 4226935 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You show once again that you have an agenda to advocate Socialism and attack anyone that is critical of you political agenda.

I think it should be obvious to anyone that actually understands the material to see that you are completely ignorant on anything that came from Mises or the Institute.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 23:57 | 4228322 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Agreed! LTER throws the words "oligarch" and "corporatist" at everything possible. I know the Mises Institute well and LTER has no clue.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:29 | 4226488 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

"Trickle down" sounds like what Obama is doing, funny how they only blame Regan for that, Obama is the biggest trickle down supporter yet. Your probably one of those Idiot Marksist people that are always blabbing about "Neoliberalism" as if its some sort of Republican phenomenon, while all along Democrats are just as guilty when they are in power. Once again fighting the wrong enemy, wasting your time and ours. I am non-partisan and you should be too if you have a brain and are a true patriot!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:35 | 4226596 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

If you read my posts, I was quite clear that the model I am against has been tried over the last 40 years, which includes Clinton and Zero.  Hell, Clinton was arguably the worst of the bunch with NAFTA.  But it's always more fun to change the subject and make it about Red Team/Blue Team rather than actually debating why trickle down doesn't work, which it doesn't.  

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:34 | 4226946 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

That does not mean you are not advocating the same progressivist neoliberal nonsense here.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:16 | 4227587 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

He advocating the 1917 model that was tried and FAILED in Russia.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:03 | 4227714 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes, I'm a Marxist because I don't agree with you.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:56 | 4225925 PGR88
PGR88's picture

Neither the article, nor Mises, says nothing about "paying workers less."   WTF are you babbling about?

The article is simply asserting the nearly obvious truth - a fiat money system hurts workers, pensioners and the poor and middle class the hardest.   When the FED does QE or Gov't bond monetization, that money printing goes through Government, their cronies and Wall Street first.   They get their cut and get to pump asset prices with it.   Wages will never grow as quickly as inflation, so the "Progressive" Federal Reserve and all the various social engineering project funded by printed money and debt actually wind-up hurting workers in the end.   

Can that get through your slogan-addled brain?


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:10 | 4225932 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

What the fuck do you think the author means by the words I quoted?  Pay them more?  Get rid of unions because they demand lower wages and we need a non-unionized work force who will work less for more?  Take off the ideology glasses and either defend the proposition or admit you have no answer other than to cloud the debate by trying to retract what he said.

Monetary policy is a different issue, and your idea that the bankers who profit from it are "progressive" is absurd.  Unless by progressive you mean oligarchs who like to fuck the poor, in which case you'd be right.  Hadn't see that definition before.   Of course the Fed was and still is sold as being good for the little guy.  They lied.  If I tell you I'm conservative and I want to start a war we don't need and build a military to enrich my buddies at Halliburton, can we agree that conservatives are all free spending crony driven thieves of taxpayer money?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:12 | 4225969 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:19 | 4227595 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Take off the ideology glasses and either defend the proposition or admit you have no answer other than to cloud the debate by trying to retract what he said.

Project much????

Is this guy an Alinskyite or what.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:04 | 4227718 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I'm glad you added that important idea to the debate.  Thanks for helping us understand the problem with your insight.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 03:44 | 4226285 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

 "If I tell you I'm conservative and I want to start a war we don't need and build a military to enrich my buddies at Halliburton, can we agree that conservatives are all free spending crony driven thieves of taxpayer money?"


That's a kid's meal.  The real meat of corruption is when the 535 govt. fuckwipes run for election every year on a bribery patronage system, by duping a braindead electorate with free shit.  Whether it was a 'chicken in every pot' or a McMansion on every lot or, Obama, 'free condoms' because he cares about chicks, man.  Whatever.  

A war.  A cool $4 trillion later.  We can eat that and move on.  What will kill us all, THE REAL WAR, is the institutionalized 100 year welfare state incorporated into the ballot box.  We've spent over $40 trillion on fighting a 'war on poverty' through FDR and LBJ legacy programs and another unfunded $200 trillion staring us in the face ahead.  And its made people poorer because they've been reduced to undiginified beggars reliant on state hand outs.  IOW they have been purposely TRAINED to be wards of the state in order for a few in Washington to moat in power by purchasing their votes.  

The real irony, as this article does a terrible job in communicating, is that these polis, with Obama as their latest snakehead, promises free shit to dumbasses to buy a vote, but then pumps up the money supply right after in order to rape those very poor people of their life savings.  The problem is then, the electorate.  They are too uneducated to know that the moment a politician promises them free shit, they are being directly robbed through a decrease in purchasing power.  It is the ancient saying there are no such thing as free lunches, but hidden through inflation.  

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:31 | 4226586 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture


one hundred thousand

It is what it is.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:17 | 4227172 Kayman
Kayman's picture

"They are too uneducated to know that the moment a politician promises them free shit, they are being directly robbed through a decrease in purchasing power."

Uneducated or wilfully blind.

 Rome physically plundered the outer regions and stripped their vassal states. The Federal Reserve conjures up claims on American made assets. Unfortunately for the holders FRN's most American made assets are promises to pay.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:31 | 4226493 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

"Trickle down" sounds like what Obama is doing, funny how they only blame Regan for that, Obama is the biggest trickle down supporter yet. Your probably one of those Idiot Marksist people that are always blabbing about "Neoliberalism" as if its some sort of Republican phenomenon, while all along Democrats are just as guilty when they are in power. Once again fighting the wrong enemy, wasting your time and ours. I am non-partisan and you should be too if you have a brain and are a true patriot!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:40 | 4226501 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Sure, as long as you also agree that I'm a progressive and I wanted to start a war [that Putin stopped cold] to enrich Dianne Feinstein and her husband who have made billions playing war at our expense, and can we also agree that progressive ar all free spending crony driven thieves of taxpayer money?

Both parties are complete and utter shit because they are at the root the same party. I don't know if you get that or not.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:12 | 4226608 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Obama is worse than Bush, which I didn't believe was possible but he came out swinging for the bankers, NSA, the MIC, etc. from day 1.  Yes, I get it.  And that's the problem.  Both parties are controlled by the same monied interests.  Goldman Sachs was the 2nd highest contributor to Obama.  It was the first highest contributor to Romney.  What's wrong with this picture?   Seems pretty obvious that GS doesn't care who wins, so long as it's "their guy" who does the winning, which is both guys.

Where Mises gets it completely wrong is pushing the idea that handing the keys to the global corporations will make it better.  That is the basic thesis of the Mises Institute.  Take away government regulation including laws protecting workers and collective bargaining, and usher in the Chinese model of employment where corporations can literally do whatever they think best to enrich themselves in the short-term.   Mises throws in red meat about ending the Fed, which I totally agree with.  But what Mises is selling in total is a black and white answer to a complex problem that does not lend itself to black and white solutions, and an answer that would make us look more like China today than America in the 50's and 60's.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:21 | 4227609 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

False moral equivalence, logical fallacy, etc., etc., etc.,,,,,,

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:04 | 4227720 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It is the etc's that really make your point.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:03 | 4225950 booboo
booboo's picture

Government unionized and non unionized employees have flourished in the last 40 years, the common denominator is the state. The private sector has been crushed by state sponsored regulation while the state exempts their own, again the state is at the center. The largest increase in wages in the last decade has been at the local, state and federal level, they create no wealth, only suck capital out of the private sector. If you.really want to know why wages have not increased you need to look no further then the giant wealth sucking mechanism called the state. Now lets talk about the states drive to democratize the world,

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:08 | 4225960 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Why are you changing the subject to public unions?  The author is talking about private unions and private corporations.  Misdirect much?

Private union membership is at generational lows.  Private large corporations already have access to cheap labor and zero regulation (China).  Large corporation taxes are also at generational lows.  It.  Doesn't. Work.  Except for the guys at the top, who fund the Mises Institute of Wealth Creation for the .01%.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:27 | 4225978 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Well, I think the author screwed up by not specifying 'public sector' unions, which I think is what they are referring to. How can you know they meant private sector unions?


To me, there's a huge difference between the two and, again, to me, the author dropped the ball by not being specific about it. For all I know they mean either/or. But I'd bet they meant public sector unions if I were a betting man.


Which type was Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin fighting back against? Seems like I have not heard much about any huge absolutely unsustainble budget problems there ever since the taxpayers FINALLY got some representation there(didn't go far enough tho imo). I keep hearing about Illinois in the news though, and of course California.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:26 | 4226000 booboo
booboo's picture

Stay on topic here, what was it again? Oh that's right, Chinese slave labor. There again we find the hand of the state, the direct result of the opium wars. Now do you want to talk about the African slave trade (cheap labor) lets see if we can find out what the states roll in that was, wonder if we will be surprised to find out their roll was to promote and fund it. See a pattern here.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:36 | 4226017 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So far no one has explained how Germany can pay union workers twice as much as their American counterparts and make twice as many cars and turn a very nice profit, and have a healthy economy all around without fucking over the workers or derugulating, polluting, etc.  I'm not in the mood to discuss the opium wars.  Maybe when there's an opium wars thread I'll change my mind.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:40 | 4226028 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Meet The 35 Foreign Banks That Got Bailed Out By The Fed

You should know this Lola.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:47 | 4226047 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

When all else fails, call the poster to whom you have no substantive response Lola, and point out that private bankers are stealing our money which has absolutely nothing to do with my posts.  I think I'll spend the rest of the night explaining to my dog why he shouldn't lick his balls.  I'm more likely to get somewhere with that.  He's open to new ideas.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:56 | 4226072 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

New Ideas? You are the consumate reiterator of class indentity, Lola. 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:24 | 4227625 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Maybe you should just show your dog how to lick its balls since you are so good at it.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:46 | 4226043 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Germany has no minimum wage and there are is a growing number of part-time, marginally attached workers:

I don't think it is sustainable.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:50 | 4226058 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No, it is not sustainable if they follow the U.S. model and kill the middle class.  But it was great while it lasted for the economic powerhouse that is slowly being taken over by oligarchs who push this kind of bullshit.  Funny how no one will respond to the basic point of the article I posted at the top that the auto companies are able to pay their workers twice as much as their American counterparts and still turn a nice profit.  I guess "nice" profit isn't good enough, heh?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:00 | 4226085 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

A lot of issues can be tied back to severing our currency to gold in 1971. Since then, we've seen greater income inequality, trade deficits, manufacturing jobs leaving, etc.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:26 | 4227631 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Big government is killing the American middle class.  Obamacare is a big part.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:43 | 4226507 TimmyM
TimmyM's picture

Those poor Germans, they wasted trillions on defense spending the last 50 years.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:03 | 4226083 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

I don't know much about Germany. Are these public sector unions there, that give their workers such great pay? Public Sector Unions always seem to be hooked into the politicians/government. If so, I can't make predictions about the future but I'd be very leery/distrustful of them. For all I know it could end up being the 'Detroit' of the future. Are these Unions there fully funding their pensions? Or are promises being made along the lines of, "we'll gladly pay you for your work in 2032 for work done today"?


If you love Public Sector Unions so much, then perhaps we should talk about those oh so wonderful Public Sector Unions in Detroit? Why can't the Public Sector Unions there keep the promises they made to their workers?



Detroit bankruptcy is blow to public sector unions; other cities struggling with pension debt

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:29 | 4227638 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Detroit city pensioners are going to get $.16 on the dollar.  Coming to a municipality to you SOON.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:07 | 4226096 Vidar
Vidar's picture

Germany is able to appear prosperous because they have no MIC to speak of, a culturally homogenous population that believes in hard work, and a cheap Euro that allows them to transfer wealth from the rest of Europe to themselves (see Greece). It is not a sustainable model, though it may be able to last longer than US-style corporate fascism.

The real issue, as the article points out, is fiat money and the power of the state. There is nothing wrong with private unions as long they don't use violence to get their way (and using the state court system or NLRB-style thuggery IS violence), though most productive workers are better off negotiating on their own, not as a part of a union. A free economy would have a much greater percentage of small business and independent contractors, big corporations and the unions that work with them are an artifact of state-enforced cartels.

The heart of the problem is that state: corporations only have power through their ability to manipulate the state. Getting rid of the system of rule by force: that is what the Mises Institute is about. The issues you bring up are minor compared to that over-arching goal.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:25 | 4226129 OneTinSoldier66
OneTinSoldier66's picture

Roger that Vidar.


If LTER is so concerned about labor and the poor, I think there should be a discussion about Minimum Wage LAWS. Which it has been stated on a post here, is something that Germany doesn't have.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 04:01 | 4226289 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

The problem is that the intervensionist State has decided it wants to be both the parent and employer of what were formerly my workers.  Workers who I had a private contract with.  No longer.  The State has inserted itself in an act of violence against their rights and mine, as their employer.  

The second after Obamacare was passed I did the calcs.  The following week I did two things.  In order to stay in business I reduced many of my workers hours down to under 30 hours a week.  I also stopped contributing to their dental and vision.

The second after Jerry Brown raised the minimum wage in Cali to $10, I sent a letter out to my employees informing them I will no longer be offering them vacation time, unfortunately.  I have given them that perk for decades.  No longer.  I have to stay in business.  I wouldn't be able to.

Thus, the State has inserted itself into a once private relationship I had with my employees, wanting to be their Parent.  I can no longer be the employer I once was.  The State has removed that from me.  Now they 'work' for me, but are co-ops of the State.  They really work for the State now, first, then me.  

I wonder what the next big push will be.  I will probably have to stop my 401K match.  Hey, the State can do that too now I suppose.  

Lessee, what else can the State do for 'the people'.  I guess, the employer, will just slowly walk backwards out of the room entirely and let the State have what the State wants.  I've given up.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:35 | 4226813 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Yeah sure - you pay your employees minimum wage but also gave them free health insurance and 401K, what bs.


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:01 | 4226844 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You can claim anything if you have a keyboard.   It's especially funny that he tries to make that point with California, the 12th largest economy in the world.    I was at the Bacara resort a couple of years ago for a conference, and I've spent a lot of time in San Fran, Orange County, Sunnyvale and other depressed spots being destroyed by the middle class making too much money.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:04 | 4227279 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

So the cult of Silicon Valley Google money is all of California now?  And the Bay Area, at least the real estate, is mostly inherited wealth of old money passed down through trust funds.  Its even worse in SoCal on the coast.  And you have a lot of foreign money flowing into those markets.  This isn't California middle class or small business.  Those areas you mention are all part of either the new tech oligarchies which have direct payola influence into the democrat party or Saudi oil money, Russian money or new Chinese wealth buying up land assets, inflating our bubble.  

I'm up here in Norcal.  Small business.  Middle class.  And yes, I have 115 employees and whenever there's a new reg dumped on my head I get raped.  I have to offload those costs somehwere else if I expect to stick around.  Obama just put a target on all small businesses just under 50 employees, basically drawing a line in the sand that you will not grow beyond that size, not now, not ever.  The ACA was a gift to the Oligarchs in removing competition.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:20 | 4227560 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Obamacare is a disaster and I'm not arguing otherwise.  What I'm talking about is the right of workers to collectively bargain, which the Mises Institute would effectively do away with.    

And I have family in the areas you describe and they did not inherit and they are doing very well.  You may have personal issues with CA, but it is ironic that one of the most successful economies in the country is your example of everything wrong with a system of regulation.  Like most people who see things through a purely ideological lens, you seem unable to recognize good regulation from bad.  

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:27 | 4227778 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

The problem with most regulations are that they are just a propaganda piece for a politician's portfolio.  Bush Sr. passed ADA into law, hedging it 'regrettablly' by saying it would be abused.  Well, as a business owner, its being abused way more than whoever it was supposed 'to help'.  Now all my employees know that they can just attach a doctor's note to an attendance problem, even a headache, and it becomes ADA.  Doctors are all too willing to just rubberstamp whatever a patient feeds them.  I might as well just tell everyone to come in whenever they want.  They can be the employer and I'll be the employee.  

Sexual harassment, AB 1825, expanded beyond measure the reach of litigation against corporations to even pursue civil damages against supervisors and managers, their own personal bank accounts if they tell a dirty knock knock joke to the wrong, pissed off person.  In addition, we have to have mandatory training for all supes, shift leaders and managers as well as introductory training to all newhires.  The state approved videos are childish and insulting and compliance cost for a small business including training materials and on the clock payroll just for AB 1825 is about $15,000/year.  Wasted.  Its all a game to protect everyone's ass now and all because the democrats didn't want a black man to be on SCOTUS, this shit got fanned out to all businesses across the country with new, out of control, never ending legislation.  I have too many stories to tell you how my employees abuse this law and use it to manipulate the workplace.   

I have made up legislation from the EPA, new 'green fees' where now I have to add up all my employees at multiply them by an arbitrary number and just pay an amount, a vig, to the state.  Someone at the statehouse just woke up one day and said, 'I think I can get more money with this one!'  

EEOC demographic reporting, BLS reports, OSHA requirements.  Its just too long a list for me to go into right now, especially the abuses of the latter, my own personal anecdotes with these agencies that would make you wonder why I continue to do business here at all.  

Good for your family.  They sound successful.  They are in the minority.  Those enclaves of wealth are principally old wealth buggered off from generation to generation.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:48 | 4227807 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Sexual harassment, AB 1825, expanded beyond measure the reach of litigation against corporations to even pursue civil damages against supervisors and managers, their own personal bank accounts if they tell a dirty knock knock joke to the wrong, pissed off person."

Not really, but I think I'm starting to see the root of your anger towards regulation.  Funny how the guys who preach personal responsbility get incredibly pissed off when they may have to risk paying out of their own pockets for abusing their position of authority over their employees.   Or do you think being the boss means that you get to do what you want?  Or a turn a blind eye when one of your supervisors is abusing his position?   Of course you do, though you won't admit it and I'm sure you'll respond with how it's not you, it's some other guy and you're really good to your workers and someone is just taking advantage.  A dirty knock knock joke does not count as sexual harrassment, and you have a jury of your peers to decide if your actions  crossed the line (you know, people who don't have to suck your anus because they work for you).  Scray, isn't it.

I own my own business, too.  You are not that special.  But I do find that most Rand types at their root want the ability to exert unchecked power over their employees.  Whether it is sexual or just ego boosting or just sociopathic desire to control others doesn't matter.  They hate that there are rules, and they advocate against them.  It's human nature, which is why we are so lucky as a society to have the ability to check that human nature with rules that transcend who writes the paycheck.

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 03:47 | 4228647 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

The problem is that they're not rules, mores or norms.  They are laws which carry the weight of state violence against the individual.  In my own experience over the last 18 years, about 1 in 6 cases are actually legitimate claims of abuse of power.  The rest are arbitrary interpretations of 'law' which most employees use as leverage to manipulate the workplace.  The law itself gives rise to a false sense of righteous anger and vindication that can often times be used in a much more wicked manner against any whom it deems require the necessary punishment according to their own interpretation.  NTM the absolute waste of time in compliance cost, total ruin in morale in adjudicating an investigation, the erosion of productivity and finally the suits themselves which are rarely a contest in the truth, but political show trials within the grievance industry which is a direct contributor to the democrat party state.

Very simply, you are wrong, and dangerously naive.  You should not be a business owner.  If you agree that most regulations are for 'the good' of the employee and not what they really are, namely populist bullshit, then you should resign your company over to someone with half a brain.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 21:55 | 4228019 sylviasays
sylviasays's picture

California has one of the most successful economies in the country? Maybe for the 1% who are mostly leftist elitists who live wealthy coastal enclaves. Many of them have benefited from government regulation and cronyism. Income inequality has risen sharply in California over the past two decades, increasing faster in the state than in the nation as a whole. In fact, California has the highest effective poverty rate in the United States.

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 00:01 | 4228330 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Cali is a total crapsow on paper, even worse than Greece,

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 04:01 | 4228652 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

Who said anything about min wage?  My median employee's salary is around $13.50.  Sure, some are min wage, but the problem is the 'new floor' which causes the inevitable price hike bickering.  I, as their employer, have my wage discretion taken away from me via the violent coercion of the state.  I can't reward my employees appropriately according to their skills.  If there was no min wage, I could actually pay some of my employees a much higher wage, but the problem is for every newhire brought on, they are now taking a larger slice of pay from their immediate supervisors.  The inexperienced rob from the more experienced, the unproductive from the productive.  

But this was never about a min wage for Obama or the DNC.  This is about union labor negotiated contracts that use the min wage as a base from which to draw their own salaries.  And unions are still the number one contributor to the democrat party.  

If you like artificial cost push inflation, then you will also enjoy the effects of min wage on the new inflated prices we, as business owners, use to remain solvent in the face of such tyrranical abuse.  

And no, I didn't say free healthcare.  You did.  I contribute half.  And my 401k is a dollar for dollar match for the first 3% and I contribute .50 for every dollar from 3-5%.  I have several on board.  


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:07 | 4225962 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Why is it so hard to understand that debasing currency screws the poor and middle class?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:10 | 4225966 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Where did I disagree with that?  Change the subject much?  The guys debasing the currency are bankers who have bribed the government into enabling them.  I know, let's get rid of the government so they don't have to spend the bribe money.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:25 | 4225997 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

No, these agencies are full of thoughtful, hardworking people who need to be funded by money we don't have.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:53 | 4227250 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

OK. Then why is the average salary of a nurse in the US $68,000, while the average salary of a nurse in Germany only $28,000?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:31 | 4227645 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Define 'nurse'.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:39 | 4227357 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

" Mises Institute of Oligarch Propaganda.TM"  ?

Thats an extreme charge, don't you think ?

I think the author got the emphasis wrong - modern extended booms & busts are caused by central bank credit expansion. So expansion of employment and the decrease of that employment during the subsequent bust, is bank created.

Government can be used by private parties to gain an economic advantage that would not be the case if pricing was governed by the free market. But I doubt this is the main cause of unemployment. It seems more likely that a century of money printing and the decline in the long term value of the US dollar required that Americans earn more just to keep up with their living expenses; that makes them less competitive at a given level of investment in production factors. The real income of Americans has been going down since the 1960s. Off-shoring of jobs and 'Made in China' on much of what we buy today, are consequences of the trend of long term US dollar devaluation.

Where I differ with some of the Austrian school folks is their views regarding free trade. In this I agree with Paul Craig Roberts that US industry was off shored in order to gain absolute rather than comparative advantage. (Labor and other types of arbitrage.)   The real world isn't made up of textbook examples.

All that said, the Mises folks are far from 'oligarch propagandists'.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:54 | 4225826 JustPrintMoreDuh
JustPrintMoreDuh's picture

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:10 | 4225852 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture
"In 1914, Henry Ford started an industrial revolution by more than doubling wages to $5 a day—a move that helped build the U.S. middle class and the modern economy. In 1913, to help meet the growing demand for the Model T, Henry Ford turned his attention to improving the manufacturing processes. The business model Ford developed—production on a grand scale, performed by well-paid workers—spread throughout the world and became the manufacturing standard for everything from vacuum sweepers to cars, and more." Shhh.  Don't tell the Mises Chinese Labor Camp Institute of Truth.
Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:21 | 4225874 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

The Industrial Revolution started decades before Henry Ford.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:25 | 4225877 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes, the Chinese version where people worked 12+ hour days for shit.  Ford was no saint, but his idea that the workers should be able to afford what he was selling helped create the middle class that drove America to decades of prosperity.   Companies have had free access to cheap wages (the "solution" posed by the Mises Institute of Oligarch Rule) for decades now.  How's that working out for the U.S.?  Sucks when facts get in the way of good oligarch pocket lining theory.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:05 | 4225951 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

And how many people did Karl Marx's ideas kill in the 20th Century? Maybe the unions can save Detroit!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:09 | 4225964 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes, because it's either Karl Marx or oligarch rule.  Those are our options.  Funny how Marx gets pulled out the minute it gets hot in the Rand kitchen and facts are pointed out that debunk worthless ideology.  Want to have an intelligent discussion?  Explain Germany to me.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:30 | 4226013 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Germany is screwed long-term like the rest of the West. They have an aging population and banking issues. They have, however, also made some labor reforms unlike their idiot neighbors to the south. Since they are export driven, the weaker Euro has also helped them. I have quite a few family members there.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:39 | 4226025 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

They have strong unions, pay their workers double their American counterparts, heavily regulate pollution, tax the shit out of luxury items, and yet their economy is strong and their corporations make nice profits.  So your answer to that is to say they also have some problems associated with an aging population and bankers.  Okay, now I'll go join the Mises Institute of Corporate Propaganda.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:54 | 4226071 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Corporate propaganda? Okay....then again, you're the same genius who doesn't understand that socialist Ponzi schemes aren't sustainable in the long-term. It's called math. Germany has a lot of problems beneath the surface, deal with it.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 05:30 | 4226335 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Go ahead and bet on Germany. I'm going with countries like Chile and Singapore which have strong programs to attract entrepreneurs, solid banks, and lower taxes. Also, why aren't states like Califiornia doing better with their high taxes, crappy regulations, and large welfare states? People are fleeing those places now.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:42 | 4227662 ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

He spends a weekend at a four star resort and he is an expert in California.   The state is broke.   It is a giant ponzi, top to bottom...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:11 | 4227421 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

You can't equate A with B necessarily. That's why economics isn't a 'science' like physics is a science.

It takes higher levels of productivity to support higher real wages. It takes investment in factors of production to increase productivity.

So, its likely that in those German auto companies you mentioned, there is higher investment than is true of their competitors. (I don't know if this is absolutely so, however.) There likely are all sorts of factors involved. (For example, the threat of the USSR to Germany was very real after the end of WW2. Much of eastern Europe had been occupied. Much of the cost of defense was born by US taxpayers, rather than the Germans.)   By the 70s US auto makers were caught asleep when the price of gas spiked upward. They had to compete with German and Japanese makers who had newer plants built after the destruction of WW2. They had smaller, more efficient models of cars ready to be bought by consumers. High American wages didn't mean US makers were more productive.

That said, I see nothing wrong with unions getting together to negotiate their labor contracts. That is, as long as they don't use government to set pricing at other than market rates.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:33 | 4226497 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

"Trickle down" sounds like what Obama is doing, funny how they only blame Regan for that, Obama is the biggest trickle down supporter yet. Your probably one of those Idiot Marksist people that are always blabbing about "Neoliberalism" as if its some sort of Republican phenomenon, while all along Democrats are just as guilty when they are in power. Once again fighting the wrong enemy, wasting your time and ours. I am non-partisan and you should be too if you have a brain and are a true patriot!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:49 | 4226052 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

So all we need is more government taxing and regulating and then we too can work only a few hours a day and get paid high wages?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:57 | 4226078 Barking Spaniel
Barking Spaniel's picture

Yes! According to LTER, it's that simple. I always love it when someone cherry picks info.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:51 | 4226851 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Right, that's what I said in all of my posts.  Why do you guys always resort to strawmen?  Or right, because you can't defend your view any other way.   Have at it.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 03:09 | 4226262 Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

Small business, that is 'the marginal capitalist' is the person who is responsible for tightening the labor market and pushing wages and salaries higher.


The small business owner is targeted specifically by the state, because the politicians are bought out by corporations.  Corporations will always attack small business by creating new government regulations to protect their monopolies.


Higher wages will not occur under facism, which is the political system of the west - where corporations run the govt, salaries will be low.  


Of course where their is a scarcity of capital, or a lack of a skilled workforce - then salaries will also be low.  China for example has a scarcity of capital in the general population, and the state itself operates as a monopolistic corporation - a great deal of capital has also been provided by foreigners, but due to existing conditions the labor pool is loose and salaries are low.

If there is enough production to tighten the labor pool in China, then wages will increase, capital will flow into the general population, and small business could create a vast and wealthy middle class.  If the existing corporations are protected by the state, and the state continues to run monoplies itself, then they will continue to be a labor camp for their resident owners of capital, and foreign corporations.


Capitalism practiced widely on a small scale is a solution, mega corporations are economic cancers that survive by using the monopoly of law provided by states, to acquire and maintain other economic monopolies.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:49 | 4226051 Teknopagan
Teknopagan's picture

A quarter ounce of gold a day with no income tax.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:58 | 4225830 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

But obunga told me if I pay 10k a year with a 20k deductible I'd be able to have "health care'for my family?

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 22:57 | 4225832 CunnyFunt
CunnyFunt's picture

Hegel would be proud.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 22:23 | 4228077 TwoHoot
TwoHoot's picture

Problem --> Solution --> Solution causes new problem

The frenzied circular logic of the Hegelian Dialectic is obvious to everyone but academics and bureaucrats.

Will it take another dark age and rennaissance to break free of this fallacy? Probably.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:03 | 4225835 frankTHE COIN
frankTHE COIN's picture

I'm very grateful for the ZeroHedge site. I learned about a Full Reserve System vs a Fractional Reserve System. The difference of a Bailment, A Bailout and a Bail- in. Bruce Krasting alerted everyone to A Vortex in the Bond Mkt when the 10 yr yield just rose from a low of 1.6 and it was at 2.0.
I was able to get family members out of their Bond funds because of that, and they avoided Major losses ( Bruce I'm working on getting you a check from them eventually )
I just wanted to say Thanks to Tyler Durden and all the ZHers.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:02 | 4225839 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Mises, via Marquar, and as I just saw, Godfrey Bloom via Mish, need to stop talking about "the State"...

"the State" is a place behind which everyone can hide.


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:52 | 4226064 Vidar
Vidar's picture

The state is the greatest enemy of mankind, and we need to talk about that fact until enough people are aware. As long as rule by force is seen as legitimate wars will continue to occur, and with modern weapons we will eventually have a war that no one will survive. Withdraw your consent, the revolution begins in the minds of the people. The state is a parasite, it can not survive without a host that is willing to tolerate its presence. All of their weapons, all of their costumed goons, all of their "laws" are meaningless if enough people wake up and simply refuse to participate in the system.

Learn the true nature of the state:


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:13 | 4226108 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

You miss the point, and sorely so.

There is no such thing as "the state."

When you pretend about "the state" while neglecting true and very finite points of control, you are a detriment to solutions of any kind.

For starters, your "theory" about the "system" is part and parcel to why we have a defunct congress.
(And you will find, eventually, that that is a very dangerous thing.)

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 02:00 | 4226175 Vidar
Vidar's picture

If what you are saying is that only individuals act, the state is simply a mental construct that is used to justify the actions of individuals, then I agree with you. But the point is that the mental construct of "the state" is what allows these people to get away with actions that everyone would recognize as crimes if it were not for the "Big Lie" of legitimacy. When people look at a cop beating someone up and think "thats ok" because the cop is wearing a state-issued costume, that is the mental disease of legitimacy at work, and it this "Big Lie" that goes by the name of "the state" that must be exposed.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:46 | 4226729 hootowl
hootowl's picture

Starve The Beast.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:51 | 4227512 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Cabreado:  ""the State" is a place behind which everyone can hide."

IMO you make an excellent point. There is no 'state', it is nothing but a word, a concept. What does exist are human beings thinking & acting in habitual/indoctrinated (and often destructive) ways.

Why does such semantics make a difference ? 

Because psychopath criminals often hide behind the word 'the State'

and cowards often shake in fear at those same words.

They imagine 'the State' as some actual  Godzilla like 'creature'.

We need to identify the actual individuals who harm us and hold them accountable.

'The government' isn't screwing us over . . . specific people are screwing us over.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:06 | 4225840 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Neither continuous war nor the welfare state can flourish and grow without a fiat system.

The heads of the Leviathan Hydra are named The Warfare / Welfare state, and it's lifeblood is fiat currency.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:11 | 4225855 NIHILIST CIPHER

Just think how boring and empty life would be if TPTB weren't constantly fucking you up the ass.       /sarc

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:27 | 4225885 Pejorative Requiem
Pejorative Requiem's picture

Another submission that assumes inflation. As long as deflation is seen as more likely and more potentially devastating than inflation, inflationary policy will conttinue, and will be seen as doing what's best for the folks - sans consideration for who's benefiting in the short term. Yes, it will all collapse eventually, but doesn't everything? Thus the ZH tag line.

Sat, 12/07/2013 - 23:45 | 4225913 Atomizer
Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:06 | 4225953 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I drive a Toyota Camry. I noticed on my Android phone a hidden folder in the 'sdcard' directory named mmsyscache. Inside it was a subdirectory called toyota_camry_sb_<some hex characters>.

I thought it was alarming as fuck and immediately deleted it. On second thought, as an engineer I should have kept it and studied it.

Sometimes your base instincts override the wisdom you have toiled to gain. Somehow I have a feeling I'll see those files again. ;)

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:41 | 4226029 joego1
joego1's picture

I think we are still exporting most of the inflation and while we certainly see inflation in many ways today it's just the tip of the iceburg. There is a massive flock of dollars loose in the world that will be coming home some day to eat us all.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:37 | 4226151 NIHILIST CIPHER

joe       +1 For seeing the storm on the horizon.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 00:52 | 4226067 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Rand seems to have runaway oral squirts... go to a "Small Pecker" chat room, 'roid, or sit back and shut the fuck up.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:25 | 4226128 exonomic halfbreed
exonomic halfbreed's picture

When I was a young man with very little money in the seventies, I bought gold, because with very little knowledge I realized how I had been lied to continuously by the authorities.  I did allright.  When I was retiring (around 1999) I started buying again because I had seen how we all were being raped by the system, via government sponsored ripoffs such as the savings and loan shenanigans and the dotcom frauds faciilitated by the SEC (whose mandate was to prevent the allowing of companies with little or no demonstration of viability to go public).  In 2001 the SEC's evidence against fraudsters was lost in the destruction of World Trade Center number 7.  Who could have predicted that?  Samuel Bush took over the War Department a century ago when military armaments were being stolen and sold to foreign entities.  Documents neccessary for trial were unfortunately lost in a mysterious fire shortly after this Lucky fellow, father of Prescot) happened to get the job.

Is it not curious that any idiot with a small amount of knowledge concerning tax policy can see that our system is designed to benefit those with real assets.  I can purchase real estate, improve it and trade it for other real estate without being subject to capital gains taxes (by deferment simply by using the right form).  If I own oil royalties, I can get a depletion allowance and also am protected somewhat by inflation because my assets go up as the dollar goes down.  Here in the northwest, investments in timber grow by approximately 6% per year due to the favorable weather and with good management I am protected guite well by the continous destruction of the dollars purchasing power.  The system is rife with special benfits for those with assets in land and certain commodities.  If I have an unbelievable amount of money to leave my heirs, I can create a philanthropic trust (which can be used for all sorts of nefarious purposes such as think tanks which promote division among society) which can employ my spoiled spawn so they may never have to grow up and see themsevles for what they are.   If you have ever watched the program on t.v. called arrested development,  I can assure from my experience that for many of the scions of our priveledged families it is not too for from the truth and for some that i know it is spot on.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:19 | 4226480 falak pema
falak pema's picture

bravo for you sincere analysis based on personal experience. Appreciated.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:39 | 4226147 smartstrike
smartstrike's picture

What a stupid article like there was no poverty before modern central banking or there was no poverty in economies using gold as money. Credit based economies span 5,000 years and predate money or central banking.


Sun, 12/08/2013 - 01:38 | 4226155 Vidar
Vidar's picture

An excellent video about how the power elite are structured and why the corporate system needs the state. The corporate oligarchs pretend to oppose the state, and do oppose some state programs at certain times, but more often they use the state to suppress competition and legitimate themselves in the eyes of the people. So-called "social programs" appear to benefit the poor and workers but actually keep them in their place, providing subsistence but also instilling fear and dependency.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 02:00 | 4226174 honestann
honestann's picture

Humans are brainwashed to only think short term.

Which gives them rationalizations to support anything.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 02:13 | 4226193 Brazen Heist
Brazen Heist's picture

Very true. This applies especially to many many graphs and charts that I see on various reports coming out from the financial media, think tanks and "studies". WHen they show the timescale going no further back than 5 years, people don't see the big picture. If they show the time scale 30 years back, people will get some perspective and make better decisions. Vested interests want you to have a short-term memory so you can pump the price for them to short. Short term thinking is being promoted by TPTB so we forget easily and repeat the same mistakes whie the rich can take the cream. 

Its all about managing expectations. 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:17 | 4226689 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

There is nothing else BUT short term thinking because they have destoyed the future in most people's minds. Through debt and speculation they have pulled future earnings forward so far that few see anything in the future besides unending debt. Long term thinking requires a belief in a future, of which few can see existing. Profit today and fuck tomorrow is all we have left.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:08 | 4226884 yogy999
yogy999's picture

You have succintly put into words that which is exactly the realization I came to 4-5 years ago. Great job.


"Long term thinking requires a belief in a future" Exactly.


There is no future since there is no rational way to underconsume today for a better tomorrow.

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 01:12 | 4228437 honestann
honestann's picture

I was very frugal, and "underconsumed" since I started mowing lawns, shoveling snow and doing odd jobs at age 8.  After 25 years of that I accumulated enough to vanish into the extreme boonies and establish self-sufficient digs.  That's what everyone here should have done.

However, I do recognize that doing the same today is more difficult in many ways (and potentially easier in a few ways).  Before I moved out of the USSA about 3 years ago, the evidence was clear that people could be frugal and save, but did not.  I assume it is the same today - drive slowly through any middle or upper middle neighborhood and look at the evidence.  Two (or more) newish SUVs, which are not parked in the 2 car garage because... virtually all garages are packed to all 4 walls and ceiling with CRAP they never needed to buy in the first place.  Oh, and if you can't afford kids, don't have them.  And don't drink or smoke.

Or be conventional, but understand you are half the problem.

Nonetheless, if you assume people must live the way they do (which I don't assume), your conclusion is basically correct.  The fact that people don't develop "excess skills" like they used to is another problem, as is the massive decline in the entrepreneurial spirit and inclination.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 02:48 | 4226238 Andy Lewis
Andy Lewis's picture

Libertardian hogwash.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 03:21 | 4226275 Brazen Heist
Brazen Heist's picture

The State also stokes the divisions and fears that it claims to address. 

The State is an entity acutely aware of self-preservation as its highest priority, and that is human nature, so the tyrannical streak will always be there. Therefore, the State must ALWAYS be questioned, brought to account and exposed. Complacency is not an option. 

Questioning authority is your duty as a free human being, just as it is to keep your shit together as much as possible without harming others. Fuck it, here is a manifesto that I'm starting on the basics duties of being human: 

The Free Human Manifesto

1) I shall always question authority, because I understand that authority has an inherent bias to self-preserve its own power above anything else, and the temptation to consolidate power against my interest and that of my fellow countrymen and women, will always be there.

2) I shall strive to always be a better person and do my best to keep my bad wolf in check and prevent him from spilling over and harming my fellow countrymen and women. I shall do my best to feed the good wolf inside me and change myself first before I strive to change the world. Each man must try his best to get his shit together in a way that minimizes harm to others

....Because being a free human being comes with basic responsibilities and too many of us feel that we are self entitled to shit we don't really deserve. 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:37 | 4226716 hootowl
hootowl's picture

.....and we should always remember that the first duty of a patriot is to protect his country from its government.


Starve The Beast.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:34 | 4227493 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

 I agree with all you wrote.

But, I think that too often we focus on "The State", 'the government', the 'institutions'.

These are word fictions, mere concepts, and 'they' do not actually exist (in the way that a rock or tree exists).

What does exist are human beings - - - - thinking and then acting in certain habitual ways, which most are taught to never question.

During the first Christmas season of WW1, soldiers from both sides decided they weren't going to shoot each other. They actually sang songs and shared food. This was despite the orders from those higher up in their respective armies. So, for a short while . . . they stopped thinking in those old habitual and indoctrinated ways. It wasn't about 'the war', or 'my army', 'the enemy', or any of that. They saw that it came down to them deciding to shoot another guy who they had no personal conflict with . . . . or not.  And, they chose Not.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 04:21 | 4226304 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

For those that haven't seen it I recommend Mike Maloney's Hidden Secrets of Money Part 4

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 06:34 | 4226358 The Abstraction...
The Abstraction of Justice's picture

Did von Mises ever mention the Rothschilds and their clan?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:37 | 4227497 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

The guy who really gets into the actions/history of the banksters is Murray Rothbard

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 07:08 | 4226372 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Another moronic post.

The corporations run the place. Staes have no remaining power.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:32 | 4226667 hootowl
hootowl's picture

Banksters, banksters, banksters.....The Babylonian Tribe that creates the faux money is the root of all of our economic and cultural degradation.

With unlimited access to unlimited amounts of faux money, The Tribe controls everything.  There is NOTHING, except the certainty of death, the money creators do not control.

Economic "theories" serve only to imbue the goyim with the idea that the faux money system of the central banks of The Tribe has validity....and will work for all to prosper, if it is just properly managed by governments. In truth it is the governments that long ago fell into subservience to the the banksters debt-money scam that now is in the final stage of consuming everything on earth.

The rise of the asian "tigers", including China, is only a temporary phenomenon, a place to sequester Tribal resources until the death of the West has been accomplished.  The seeds of asian disintegration have already been implanted in the economics of the region and their illusory prosperity will disappear quickly on the heels of Western economic demise.

The final exploitation of the natural resources of Africa will never accrue to the benefit of poor Africans.  That continent will never prosper due to the congenital misanthropy of Africans for one another......and everyone else.

We must wonder what The Tribe will do when there is nothing and nobody left worth exploiting, but each other.  What does it profit them to gain the whole world and lose their own eternal souls.

Peer through this world system, stand aside and see it for the temporal illusion that it is.  Read the end of The Book and watch as it is brought to life in the news headlines of each day.  It is history writ from the beginning for our edification and guidance.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 09:21 | 4226417 falak pema
falak pema's picture

The State DOES NOT cause the middle class poverty, the OLIGARCHY construct does that. Its been that way since 1981.

But the State, now totally controlled by the Oligarchs, then aids and abets the poverty dissemination, socialising debt  in regulatory capture to achieve this awesome and vertiginous vertical wealth redistribution, at their behest.

The US State, prime world hegemon pre 1981 election, was still in welfare distribution mode to protect the middle classes. No more.

This is all a well thought out plan executed under the Trilateral gun, the legacy of WW2 US dominance; where the SOviets were just small fry and, if anything, necessary bogey men to grease the wheels of the US MIC construct (aka Carthago delenda est meme). It festered during the Cold War period and then blossomed, initiated by a politically unilateral mindset that saw its inception in the USA post November 22, 1963. The US oligarchy plague then began.

"Oligarchs of the world unite you have nothing to lose but the shackles of a Keynesian world, albeit under the gold exchange standard, bequeathed by FDR to humanity built around BW and UN hopium. Today we come to bury Mandela, the last of that breed. After his death, like after those of JFK/MLK, we can begin the big reset in Africa like we have in First World, then in Chindia, all to plan...Then we will have all continents under our control via the global instruments of WTO et IMF."

Dixit the party line of current Oligarchy, as per Dear Henry's 1974 shuttle diplomacy cum ping pong detente Mantra, now practiced by the leaders of the NWO matrix.

The day of the Jackal Oligarchy is now here. But... the sun ALWAYS SETS on a world construct that pretends it's firmly there to rule as "beacon of progress" till Kingdom comes. 

And you know why, here at ZH : Its always hubris and complacency that sinks the Armada and defeats the Tercio and the Conquistador of that other universal Empire. It wasn't Regal France or Imperial Ottomans that destroyed that Imperial army of Habsburgian empire, it was "Les Geux", the dirty Dutch peasantry, in the course of a 80 year war that stretched the EMpires's resources and armies to breaking point; Golden Halls of Montezuma notwithstanding. 

And the tulips have reflourished today to announce another bubble of Spanish main type decay. (Spain lost Holland forever in 1648 ten years after the tulip bubble rage of the dutch golden age.)

That's history.

PS : Amusing anecdote about Emperor Charles V who created the Spanish Inquisition's ruthless rule in Europe with the Pope's hat under his foot : "There will be 'universal justice' in this world or there will be eternal war." Those were his words along with that other iconic phrase : the sun never sets... Sounds like GWB's NWO to me; Dick Cheney and "our way of life is non negotiable" mantra followed by PAtriot Act (control and fear meme); and current Potus is squirming in those outsized clothes when he is not repeating that same stilted prose. 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 09:17 | 4226432 aleph0
aleph0's picture



Once and for all .... get rid of :

# all these Monetary "Theories" and "Theorists"  .. in which  every new "Theory" mean a new Ponzi Scheme
# Fiat Money / Fractional Reserve / Central Banks ...  and make banking a utility  like Water.

If we had pure simple and honest MONEY, we wouldn't need all these "Theories" ....  & Snake Oil Salesmen promoting the latest Economic Ponzi scheme.

How about Coins made of Gold, Silver and Copper ... it worked well before , until we were conned out of it ... yet agaion ... by Govts. over-spending and Banksters reaping in the Sovereign-Interest.

Just sayin'




Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:23 | 4226913 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"# all these Monetary "Theories" and "Theorists"  .. in which  every new "Theory" mean a new Ponzi Scheme"

No theory has ever changed the fact that 1+1 ALWAYS = 2.

The up phase of a cycle will make any theory appear to work.  The down phase exposed The Maestro for what he was.

The founders of LTCM calculated that they had a perpetual money making machine.  The down phase of the market cycle in 1998, exposed it for what it was.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 09:39 | 4226451 Burticus
Burticus's picture

The few who understand the system will either be so interested in its profits or be so dependent upon its favours that there will be no opposition from that class, while on the other hand, the great body of people, mentally incapable of comprehending the tremendous advantage that capital derives from the system, will bear its burdens without complaint, and perhaps without even suspecting that the system is inimical to their interests. - Rothschild Brothers of London

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:51 | 4226520 Duude
Duude's picture

This doesn't even touch on Johnson's 'great society' and the falacies that government can give a hand up and in so doing eventually eliminate poverty in America. It does precisely the opposite by growing generations of dependence, people give up hope in anything but more government spending. The attitude of entitlement is a cancer that will rob a nation of entrepreneurship, quality labor, jobs, and eventually all wealth leaving a hollow shell of dysfunction.  

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!