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Livestream From Ukraine, Where Tens Of Thousands Return To Protest At Kiev's Main Square

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Now that Athens' Syntagma square has been put on indefinite hiatus since everyone has finally figured out the game between Greece and Athens (Greece grudgingly promises to reform but doesn't, at the same time Troika grudgingly threatens to cut off funding for Greece unless reforms are implemented but doesn't... even as the fate of the people gets worse), a new square has emerged as the focal point in the fight for (and against) Europe - Kiev's Independence Square.

However, unlike in Syntagma square where the people were largely against Europe due to its demands for Greek reforms, in the Ukraine, the people who amass at the country's biggest square are instead demanding that the country return to Europe's sphere of influence and tear away from Russian gravity where the country recently found itself gravitating toward as reported previously. If in the process the government of president Yanukovich can be overthrown so much the better.

Which is why following two weeks of escalating protests, today is the latest day in which tens if not hundreds of thousands of people are expected to come down to Independence Square, where Ukraine's opposition leaders urged hundreds of thousands of pro-Europe protesters at a rally on Sunday to keep up pressure on President Viktor Yanukovich to sack his government and drop plans for closer ties with Russia.

Independence Square has been transformed into a makeshift village of tents, festooned with Ukrainian blue and yellow flags, EU flags and opposition banners, beneath a large television screen. People huddle around braziers for warmth.

The live webcast from Kiev can be found below:



#ffffff; display: block; color: #000000; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10px; text-decoration: underline; text-align: center;">Live streaming video by Ustream

More from Reuters:

The protesters, gathered on Kiev's Independence Square, are furious with the Yanukovich government for its decision to ditch a landmark pact with the European Union in favour of a trade deal with Moscow, Ukraine's Soviet-era overlord. Sunday's rally marks a further escalation in a weeks-long confrontation between authorities and protesters that has raised fears for political and economic stability in the former Soviet republic of 46 million people.

 

"This is a decisive moment when all Ukrainians have gathered here because they do not want to live in a country where corruption rules and where there is no justice," said world heavyweight boxing champion-turned-politician Vitaly Klitschko.

 

The opposition accuses Yanukovich, who met Russian President Vladimir Putin on Friday, of preparing to take Ukraine into a Moscow-led customs union, which they see as an attempt to recreate the Soviet Union.

 

"We are on a razor's edge between a final plunge into cruel dictatorship and a return home to the European community," jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko said in an emotional message to the crowd read out by her daughter Yevgenia.

 

"There is a significantly greater chance of ending up in a medieval dictatorship; the choice is in your hands," said Tymoshenko, Yanukovich's main rival, who is serving a seven-year jail sentence for abuse of office in a case condemned by the West as politically motivated.

 

* * *

 

The Moscow and Kiev governments have both denied that Putin and Yanukovich discussed the customs union in their talks on Friday in the Russian Black Sea resort of Sochi, but further bilateral talks are planned for Dec. 17.

 

Yanukovich and Putin, who regards Ukraine as strategically vital to Moscow's own interests, are widely believed to have struck a bargain whereby Ukraine obtains cheaper Russian gas and possibly credits in exchange for backing away from the EU.

What the people demand?

Last weekend, riot police beat protesters and journalists, triggering EU condemnation and swelling the protesters' ranks. "We do not want to be kept quiet by a policeman's truncheon," Klitschko told Sunday's crowd.

 

He demanded the release of political prisoners, punishment of those responsible for last weekend's police crackdown, the resignation of Prime Minister Mykola Azarov's government and early presidential and parliamentary elections. Those camped out on Independence Square have been swelled by huge numbers coming in from Ukrainian-speaking areas of western and central Ukraine, where opposition politicians enjoy strong support.

 

A Tymoshenko ally, former interior minister Yuri Lutsenko, appealed to people in Russian-speaking areas of the east - the bedrock of Yanukovich's power - to turn out and join the protests. "We are the same people as you are, except that they stole from you earlier," he said.

And while the Ukraine government has for now been largely tolerant of protests besides the occasional flare out of police brutality, things are finally changing following news from AFP that the country's security service is launching criminal probes over attempts to "seize power" and that the probe concerns "certain politicians"who the security service says acted illegally. In other words a political crackdown.

In Eastern Europe when such "probes" start flying the result is never good.

 


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Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:42 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

Hey I got my protest college buddies ready to go, just make the call.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:54 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

I cant imagine why the Ukarians would not want to be under Russian domination again ........

http://www.holodomorct.org/history.html

ever seen Fiddler on the Roof ?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:04 | Link to Comment Teknopagan
Teknopagan's picture

It wasn't Russians, but Bolshevik Jews who perpetrated the extermination. Kaganovich and crew.   

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:58 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

.. and now they want to join up with the Bolschevik EU! go figure, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice ..

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment bobert
bobert's picture

Azannoth:

Who is more Bolschevik a typical European or a typical Russian in your view?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

What year is it?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

Same as it ever was...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Ding ding!!!!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Oracle 911
Oracle 911's picture

Kaganovich and crew.  

 

Like Nikita Khruchchev.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:59 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Teknopagan, Indeed! It is nice to see someone get to this comments section and expose reality, the historical truth. The USSR and the Bolshevik revolution was not Russian, only the fools fed proaganda believe that. The revolution was the overthrow of Russian rule, Russian religion, Russian society, Russian culture and the Russian economy by the Bolshevik power masters. Many were non-Russian, the leadership including Stalin and those who followed were not Russian. The USSR after Stalin was run by Ukrainian leaders and their mafia. I have not mentioned Jewish influnce in the USSR. I just suggest anyone read the history of the USSR, the revolution and following red terror had a very strong Jewish component.

One becomes sick of posters just get on here and spew western propaganda when they know not on thing about the Russian Revolution or the following USSR. In the 1930's the entire USSR inner circle had only two Russians. Stalin had one killed and kept the other on as a token Russian under constant threat of death. Molotov's wife was eliminated as a warning to him to not act up.

To call the USSR Russia, is a sick western lie. The Bolshevik's were the anti Russian component in the czarist empire, they overthrew Russian rule. How hard is that for our western educated posters to understand?

I haven't time to recount the history of the Ukraine. Just know that it is spli 50 50 for and against the EU. Should the west run the elected government out and replace it with their EU puppets, the east of Ukraine and the Crimea will revolt, and their Russian allies will support them. Ukraine! Say goodby to all your industry, mineral, gas and oil supplies, and kiss the Crimea goodby. They will never, ever join the EU, they will fight, and they will win. This is simple fact. Red arrows can not change it.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:16 | Link to Comment ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Can you recommend some reference material regarding your assertions above? 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:23 | Link to Comment bobert
bobert's picture

Jack:

 

Thank you for your insightful comments.

 

"Russian." This term needs more definition here. We would all be interested in your thoughts I'm sure.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 23:04 | Link to Comment gallistic
gallistic's picture

Burton, I like the fact that you actually seem to know some of the history behind this. Sadly, most of it is going down the memory hole these days.

Anyone who wants to understand the current events, must dig out the recent history of Ukraine. It's the the same old players, different match. Orange "Revolution" 2.0 is unfolding before us as I type this...

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 07:24 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"Should the west run the elected government out and replace it with their EU puppets..." - you rail against propaganda, yet this sentence sounds not differently. Just to drive in the point, a Pro-Russian government is "elected", a Pro-EU government would be filled with "EU puppets"

well done /s           +1 for the rest, which is has some facts in it. Stalin was Georgian, as you know. doesn't it spoil a bit your "Ukrainian Mafia" narrative, among others?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:16 | Link to Comment bobert
bobert's picture

Technopagan:

 

Were all Bolshevik's jewish in your opinion?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:26 | Link to Comment ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

Leon Trotsky was born Lev Davidovich Bronshtein (Russian: ??? ????????? ?????????) on 7 November 1879, in Yanovka (Russian: ??????) or Yanivka (Ukrainian: ??????), in the Kherson guberniya of the Russian Empire (today's Bereslavka (Ukrainian: ??????????;
 WikiMiniAtlas

in the Bobrynets Raion, Kirovohrad Oblast, Ukraine), a small village 15 miles (24 km) from the nearest post office. He was the fifth child of eight of well-to-do Jewish farmers,

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 07:27 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you should never get on that horse without having at least a cursory look at the history of Jews in the Russian Empire. try to understand the Pale of Settlement, as a starter

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:07 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

"I cant imagine why the Ukarians would not want to be under Russian domination again ........"

 

Really, why not? Growth rates in Russia are looking better as they look worse in the EU.

"Ever feel like you have been cheated?" (Johnny Rotten)

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Handful of Dust
Handful of Dust's picture

Those teens need moar iPads, student loans and zero-down, no interest 10 year car loans. Can't they be moar like us? Then they'd be happy::))

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:58 | Link to Comment joak
joak's picture

You are right, it's much better to turn to Europe and, one day, be forced to follow Brussels Politburo decisions blindly. Close your history books and look at the reality, Russia has a future, not Europe.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment Eos
Eos's picture

Really? Did you move to Russia recently? No? Why? Shitty infrastructure? Roads that are impossible to drive? Stinking public transport? Corrupt cops? Vhechen mafia? Can't hear you!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:29 | Link to Comment Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

i rather live in Moscow than in Detroit.
Why don,t you book a flight and visit, troll.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:43 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I guessing cause the USSR sucked the first time....and unlike Ameican school children, the Ukrainians actually have studied history.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:54 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

studied it ? A lot of them lived it.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:00 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the hard lessons tend to stick

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

Yeah, but so did USA in the 1950s if you were a 'coon', or had any hint of being some sort of commie prevert.

Follow-the-money usually works ... follow-the-debt? ... ah, not so much.

I can't figure why this group think they'll be better off in the euro camp.

And what the hell ever happened to non-aligned and independent? Maybe they should have kept those ex-soviet nukes.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Element

Because this site is overrun by American/Israeli's that carry two passports (betraying the former for the latter) and think there is a future for "only them" when the Anglo-American house of cards that they rigged just like their Russian Ashkenazi ancestors did in 1917 -implodes.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment bobert
bobert's picture

I gave you an up arrow but are you sure they will want to leave for Israel???

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Good question you raise?

They will go where the path of least resistance is the most fertile and get everyone else to do the "dirty work"... 

If America becomes too disruptive, they'll be sure to find a new home.  If the U.S. military won't back them up against Iran -then fill in the blank _______ for the next destination that has money in it and an excuse to occupy. 

I never believed that the Country they invaded and have occupied since 1948 is something they will sacrifice every man woman and child for.  It's not in there DNA and the heroic image they portray to the World is but a myth of fiction in the book they themselves have authored.

They don't call them "wandering"... for nothin!

Let me just clarify some of these statements by saying that what Americans have done in the last 200 years in the war and genocide department is also less than admirable and our relationship with the "outpost", or shall I call it our 51st State, is kindred in nature and the dubious relationship and title that the U.S. carries with them is well deserved.

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 07:35 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Element, about one third of Ukranians see themselves as non-aligned in this Ukrainian "Russia or EU" struggle. their problem is that they don't want neither faction to get the upper hand, which is a negative goal, in the eyes of the others and of course of Russia

"I can't figure why this group think they'll be better off in the euro camp"

Then perhaps it's on you to try to understand them better, isn't it? Let's put it differently: why do you think that being in the EU camp is such a bad thing? And don't confuse it with the EUR camp, aka eurozone

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:44 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

More bitcoin!... er, I mean euros!!! Huh? Wha...?????

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:45 | Link to Comment hairball48
hairball48's picture

If the situation gets really bad, I have a spare bedroom here in MT for one of those Ukrainian hotties.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:09 | Link to Comment TahoeBilly2012
TahoeBilly2012's picture

Dude, I have my bed for a few, the spare is the armory.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:50 | Link to Comment Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

Just one?

I'll take as many as I can get!!

 

Which will probably be zero... :(

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:46 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

There is a significant chance they are going to end up being at the mercy of some 'medieval dictatorship' regardless. The entire world is operating under the same danger.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:55 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yeah.  Come on, Urkaine, get with the program along with the rest of us.  Pick an oligarch, rent a shovel from him, and start digging that ditch he needs over there.   No, let's try it over here.  No, I like it better over there.  

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:05 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

...or pick which Goldman Sachs troglodyte you would like to enrich at the cost of your own safety, wealth, and security. Looks like they're going balls out for Draghi.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 15:17 | Link to Comment Eos
Eos's picture

You folks have no idea how it goes down here. Imagine that every single fucking clerk in every single goverment structure (every cop, doctor, deputee, mayor etc etc) is corrupt and when you hear "hey, let's do the surgery in medieval style or pay me few hundred buks into my pocket, go buy you whole medicine by yourself and we do it right. Maybe. When things are like that on the bottom one does not think about those who steal millions a day. People are really fed up with corruption and fighting for survival and european (i.e. no to little corruption) lifestyle, laws and rules.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:58 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Vote Republican!  No, Democrat!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:09 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The crowds are club fodder.

Call me when they bring guns to the party.  Until then it's just people walking in the street talking loudly.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:47 | Link to Comment SpanishGoop
SpanishGoop's picture

Really, protesting because they want to belong to the EU.

 

 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:01 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yes, because the EU is working out so well....

"A vote for the EU is a vote against the Russians."  Why not vote to remain independent?  BECAUSE THEY'RE MOST LIKELY NOT BEING OFFERED THAT CHOICE.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:13 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Yes, like in America.  Would you like what's behind door number 1, door number 2, or would you like to spend a few years in Cuba at our summer camp?  Good choice.  Door number 1 it is!  Now tell him what he hasn't won.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:14 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Of course not. Being free and independent would be too threatening an option for all of the other countries who chose to give up their right to use their own currency.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment gold_pa3ot
gold_pa3ot's picture

It's not about EU anymore, don't be an idiot. It's about fucking corrupt goverment. People are fed up with this shit.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Seahorse
Seahorse's picture

Thinking they'll get more free-shit from EU.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:49 | Link to Comment DeliciousSteak
DeliciousSteak's picture

What does the EU have to gain by absorbing Ukraine? Last I heard it was one of the poorest countries in Europe and wholly dependent on Russian energy. I guess it makes sense if we consider the EU an American satellite and the cold war never ended, so America feels the need to exploit the temporary weakness of their foe and forces the EU to shoulder an additional burden.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

they get a free people willing to fight and die for a good cause...and good reason. I'm so sick and tired of the Godless thugs "running things." He is laughing with contempt at all of us post "fall of the Berlin Wall" and what it has all "meant" to us in the West (MOAR!). It would be interesting to see if these leaders reach out and express some type of spiritual view...that by doing these things and come what may God sees them as special for doing this. To do right is to suffer...to suffer and overcome "that" (whatever it may be) is to do right in God's eyes. Your opposition is a joyless, paranoid wacko. How funny he has to flee to Moscow to get his "instructions." Hail Ye mighty toady!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:53 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Significant natural resources : iron ore, coal, manganese, natural gas, oil, salt, sulfur, graphite, titanium, magnesium, kaolin, nickel, mercury, timber, arable land (from the CIA factbook - how poetic)

I love the american headlines: Can Ukraine resist the bully,   Why Ukraine's future lies with the EU

we're just a "carbon copy"

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

Yeah well, don't forget where the Russian Black Sea Fleet is based ... might have something to do with it.

 

"The Black Sea Fleet is a large operational-strategic sub-unit of the Russian (and formerly Soviet) Navy, operating in the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea since the late 18th century. Its ships are based in various harbors of the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov, while its aviation and infrastructure is based in various locations in Crimea, Ukraine and Krasnodar Krai, Russia."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Fleet

 

Strategic issues come first, especially so close to home.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:16 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

true

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:50 | Link to Comment virgilcaine
virgilcaine's picture

They want to be a slave to Germania. Can't wait for it.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:08 | Link to Comment Teknopagan
Teknopagan's picture

Just the tardy imposition of the the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk (1918) minus White Russia

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 10:56 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

"This is a decisive moment when all Ukrainians have gathered here because they do not want to live in a country where corruption rules and where there is no justice,"

And just what do they think the EU is?  Granted, Russia is much more cavalier about it.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment gold_pa3ot
gold_pa3ot's picture

Are you an idiot? It's not about EU anymore, it's about people who are fed up with this anti-unkrainian corrupt government!!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

And running to a bigger state is going to help, how?

Men and nations are only entitled to those freedoms which they can keep for themselves.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:03 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Paul Craig Roberts on the Ukraine Protests:

The several days of organized protests in Ukraine are notable for the relative lack of police violence. Unlike in the US, Canada, Thailand, Greece, and Spain, peaceful protesters have not been beaten, tear gassed, water cannoned, and tasered by Ukrainian police. Unlike in Egypt, Palestine, and Bahrain, Ukrainian protesters have not been fired upon with live ammunition. The restraint of the Ukrainian government and police in the face of provocations has been remarkable. Apparently, Ukrainian police have not been militarized by US Homeland Security.

What are the Ukrainian protests about? On the surface, the protests don’t make sense. The Ukrainian government made the correct decision to stay out of the EU. Ukraine’s economic interests lie with Russia, not with the EU. This is completely obvious.

The EU wants Ukraine to join so that Ukraine can be looted, like Latvia, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland, and Portugal. The situation is so bad in Greece, for example, that the World Health Organization reports that some Greeks are infecting themselves with HIV in order to receive the 700 euro monthly benefit for the HIV-infected.

The US wants Ukraine to join so it can become a location for more of Washington’s missile bases against Russia. 

Why would Ukrainians want to be looted?

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:11 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I love PCR, but I recall watching a video here on ZH where about 10 different Ukrainian thug cops beat the living shit out of a protestor who was unwise enough to fall down as they were advancing.  And I have to agree that between Russia and the EU (the choice they are being given), Russia makes more sense for Ukraine.  As someone else here noted, it's unfortunate that they don't have an Option C.  I guess the oligarchs have convinced the whole world that multiple choice means A or B, where they are A and B.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:18 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

And I have to agree that between Russia and the EU (the choice they are being given)

And what about option C

I like how Josh Homme phrased it in this tune

You've made me an offer that I can't refuse
Course either way, I get screwed
Counter proposal
I go home and jerk off

I'm Designer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qb1yPVBrN4

 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:23 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

do I want the guy beating the shit out of me to

a) have a smile or a grimace?

b) wear red or red and two more colors?

c) watch ballet or break dancing?

d) drink vodka or smoke crack and GMOs?  

 

fuck this is hard

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:38 | Link to Comment HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Its been a long time since I was in the Ukraine, so I cannot comment on the current situation. But, does anyone doubt that there is likely to be a Western NGO component to the protests ?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 19:55 | Link to Comment vitoox
vitoox's picture

Why PCR states that US is defeated by Taliban? Sorry for my impolitic state but this time the right answer is important for me. Thanks

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:16 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Natural gas and energy nothing more and nothing less is the crux of this tug of war.

It doesn't matter what the people Ukraine or otherwise want the owner class has decided and the cockfight is between owner class factions unless the people wise up throw them all the fuck out and put their own into power. Notice there is never anyone representing a third choice in these decisions which would be none of the above. Why does it have to be EU or Russia why the fuck can't it be leave us the fuck alone we want to stay single and not date either of you assholes or we want to be 21st century freak shows and be bi-curious and swing both ways EU/Russia.

 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:28 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

They need a few postcards from Iceland.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:28 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Carlin summed it up nicely about the illusion of choice and the owner class before he died.

I paraphrase

You get freedom of choice for things that are not important to the owners like 32 flavors at Howard Johnsons but when it comes to politics you only get 2 choices either the owners left or right hand. The choice has already been made by the owners.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 22:05 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Because they need money.

It's always about money.

Ukranians need a sugar daddy.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:18 | Link to Comment Joe A
Joe A's picture

Funny, the choice is between the USSR and the EUSSR.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:26 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Breakng News:

German president to boycott Sochi Olympics 2014

 

German President Joachim Gauck has become the first major political figure to announce he is boycotting the Sochi Winter Olympics in February 2014. Gauck informed the Kremlin of his decision last week, according to German weekly Der Spiegel. Since coming to office almost two years ago, Gauck has declined any official visits to Russia, citing alleged “rights violations.”

http://rt.com/news/line/2013-12-08/#53083

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:04 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Gauck is a Zionist puppet like much of the German establishment, they want to stick it to Putin for spoiling their Middle Eastern Crusades

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 01:02 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Well, Putin should temporarily cut their gas supplies.

They'll need it for all the visitors at Sochi.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:26 | Link to Comment Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Lexus would like to thank the protestors for for freezing their asses off to provide free advertising globally at the right of the stream for a GX460 POS.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:32 | Link to Comment geno-econ
geno-econ's picture

It is a tough choice either way for the Ukranians. Bottom line is if you are young, competitive, talented, educated and willing to work, go West. If you are old, complacent, mediocre and want to dance to folk music for the rest of your life, go East. Either side will welcome you in order to plunder your land, natural resources and labor. Unfortunately a population of only 46 million can not make it on their own and then there is the language, cultural and religious drag from centuries of servitude. This will not end well with stoking from the political left and right. It seems Hot Spots are developing globally which is a bad omen for Peace. Perhaps the Holiday Season and cold weather will have a quieting impact.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:01 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Ukraine is a huge country with plenty of natural resources, their problem is not lack of wealth, their problem is their Slavic blood and the stupification that goes with it

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 15:31 | Link to Comment Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

gen-econ

Good thoughts the only problem is you have it backwards.  The young and most talented will have nothing to show for it by going to the EU as well as the U.S. and Britain with the unemployment rates that are displacing too many of it's citizens already seeking work.

After all, if what you say is true, they must have gotten that formative discipline to achieve higher learning from somewhere and we know it certainly wasn't in the U.S. educational system? 

The EU wants it for one reason and one reason only.  They got burned over Syria with Putin making a stand and lots of money was lost on that project. 

Wouldn't be at all surprised if Saudi Arabia is funding much of the ferment and unrest that CNN and Fox are only too happy to show the illiterates that watch them of the 500,000 out of 46 million that are stirring up all the trouble?

 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:33 | Link to Comment Element
Element's picture

They won't be out on the streets for much longer after monday night (-9 °C with snow). The current temp is 0 °C, with a wind chill of -6 °C, but on Tuesday morning it looks like this, -8 | -12 °C ... without the wind chill factor.

So if figure this is going to end Monday evening.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

Balmy wintertime temps for Ukraine, son..

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

Please downvote if you enjoy Ukrainian cawk up your bum...

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Dick Gozinya
Dick Gozinya's picture

A lot of hard work, not to mentin dioxin poisoning, by Viktor Yushenko, and his wife Katerina (from Mt. Prospect, Illinois) down the drain if Yanukovick prevails.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:12 | Link to Comment vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

Where is Sausage the riot dog?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:28 | Link to Comment GumbyMe
GumbyMe's picture

Russia or EU? Tough to decide which totalitarian regime to fall under. One way or another, Ukraine will become just another district (Hunger Games), with Russia being a better choice in the long term (at least they have natural resources, unlike EU that's just burning them).

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

It's been years since conflict somewhere in the world has not involved the United States, whether publicly or with its many clandestine agencies. Nowhere is this more prevalent than in the former Soviet satellites where the American Empire, working with its European bankers, attempts to set up puppet regimes that serve the bankers and short change the people.

“When a referendum is held on EU membership, and the results aren’t to the pro-EU side’s liking, the election is simply ignored and the Eurocrats mount yet another campaign until the "right" result is achieved.

“Good for Ukraine and Yanukovich for resisting this incipient version of the old USSR, albeit this time a creature of the West. The EU must call off their hooligans in Kiev and stay out of Ukraine’s business: and that goes double for the US, which should stay out of it (which of course it isn’t) and leave the Ukrainian people to decide their own fate.” – Justin Raimondo

Ukraine Defends Its Sovereignty: Against the Old EU and the New Cold Warriors | Antiwar.com

Posted By Justin Raimondo on December 1, 2013

Remember the "Orange Revolution"?

You’ll be forgiven if you don’t: Ukraine’s "color revolution," organized, financed, and planned in the West, blends into the rainbow gallery of failed Western-backed regime-change operations launched in the wake of the Soviet Union’s fall: Yugoslavia (2000), which rid the world of Slobodan Milosevic and yet failed to permanently install a "pro-Western" government; Georgia’s "Rose Revolution" (2003), which ensconced the lunatic Mikhail Saakashvili in power; Kyrgyzstan’s 2005 "Tulip Revolution," which adopted the color pink as its emblematic tint, that ended in a bloody uprising and fueled continuing chaos; Lebanon’s "Cedar Revolution," which tried to impose this template in yet another (2005) attempt to install a "pro-Western" regime with backing from "pro-democracy" groups in the US and Europe. The Cedar-ites succeeded in driving Syria from Lebanon, but failed in their attempt to neutralize Hezbollah and seize power in their own right.

The "Orange Revolution" was different, however, in that it had a powerful narrative that went beyond mere talking points: the charismatic leader of the revolution, Viktor Yushchenko, former Prime Minister under the pro-Soviet government of Leonid Kuchmas, and once head of the Bank of Ukraine. He arose as the West’s "golden boy," a "reformer" lionized by the Western media who was famously "poisoned" with dioxin, a highly unusual method of murdering someone, to say the least – on a par with the mysterious deaths of Russian exile Alexander Litvinenko and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat by means of polonium poisoning.

On the strength of alleged election fraud on the part of the Ukrainian authorities in favor of Viktor Yanukovich, the pro-government pro-Russian candidate, and his alleged poisoning – purportedly at the hands of Vladimir Putin and the KGB – Yushchenko was elevated to the presidency in a 2004 run-off election. However, the Orange revolutionaries soon started devouring their own, as the movement split into different interest groups aligned with this or that dubious oligarch and the economy continued its downward slide.

Yushchenko’s popularity also slid rather precipitously, as the alleged "poisoning" was increasingly called into question, including by his former chief advisor – and godfather to his child – David Zhvania, who contends the evidence for the poisoning was faked. A number of individuals, including a former prosecutor, have since come forward with more evidence that the "poisoning" was a stunt designed to discredit the opposition and propel Yushchenko into office. I wrote extensively about the "poisoning," raising doubts about its authenticity and the scientific evidence that seemed to verify it. Lothar Wicke, the chief medical officer of the clinic that examined Yushchenko, said from the beginning that there was no evidence of poisoning, and claimed to have been threatened by Yushchenko’s supporters.

Ukraine’s "Orange Revolution" – financed in large part by Western "pro-democracy" government agencies, including NED/USAID in the US and their British and European equivalents – was really the beginning of a new cold war with Russia. A renewed East-West confrontation had been brewing ever since Putin threw out the thieving "pro-Western" oligarchs who surrounded Russian President Boris Yeltsin and started challenging the Western agenda of global dominance.

A big issue has been the alleged "energy blackmail" engaged in by Putin, a favorite Western story line which depicts the Russian bear as cornering the poor helpless Ukrainian maiden and forcing her to submit to unspeakable economic practices, such as paying market prices for Russian oil and gas. Back in the Bad Old Days, when Ukraine was part of the USSR, Ukrainian energy – along with most other staples, such as food – was subsidized by the central authorities in Moscow. After the fall of the Communists, the practice was continued – until Putin got into office. It was he who initiated the "blackmail" campaign by doing what Westerners had been demanding he do since he took office: instituting market prices in basic commodities, including oil and gas.

Yushchenko and his sometime ally, Yulia Tymoshenko – now in jail for corruption – blamed the Russians for practically all of Ukraine’s many problems, playing into the ultra-nationalism that has percolated just below the surface since the fall of the Soviets. They looked to the West, and specifically the European Union, as the only viable future for their country, and even talked of entering NATO.

The failure of the economy to improve, and the authoritarian impulses of the Orange revolutionaries, both played into the country’s growing disillusionment and the reversal of fortunes that put Yanukovich back in power. When Yushchenko, the former Hero of the Orange Revolution, ran for a second term in 2010, he received a little over 5 percent of the vote, and was eliminated in the first round.

If you thought this meant the end of the Western attempt to tear Ukraine out of the Russian orbit, think again: these people never give up. And they seem to have learned their lesson, this time refraining from personifying their cause in a fallible human leader, such as Yushchenko – or the even more flawed Tymoshenko – and instead latching on to an abstraction – the EU – as the flag around which to rally their troops.

EU "associate" membership for Ukraine has long been in the planning stage, delayed in part by the country’s economic condition and in part by the unpopularity of the "European idea" in the eastern pro-Russian provinces. The issue came to a head at the recent EU summit, where Ukraine’s ascension to second class "associate" status was supposed to have been the centerpiece. Yanukovich’s refusal to sign the treaty threw the Euro-crats for a loop, painfully puncturing their pretensions – which have taken a hard beating of late. Angela Merkel scolded Yanukovich at the summit: "We expected more," she reportedly told him.

What she expected was Ukraine’s total capitulation to the EU’s demands that the country "reform" its judicial process so that "selective prosecution" of the Euro-crat’s favored politicians ceases and the "right" people are put in jail. Also demanded: the "reform" of Ukraine’s electoral system, which unfairly favors candidates popular with the Ukrainian people rather than the EU’s in-country sock puppets.

Yet why should Yanukovich sign the EU treaty – aside, that is, from the bromides about "joining Europe"? If he had signed, then why did the Ukrainians, alongside their Russian compatriots, bother fighting the Germans during World War II, finally succeeding in driving them out of the country after unthinkable losses? Why did they throw off the Russian yoke after the USSR disappeared – only to surrender their hard won sovereignty to yet another amalgam of socialist states?

The Eurocrats have their Ukrainian fifth column out in the streets of Kiev, attacking government buildings, engaging in hand-to-hand fighting with the police, and deploying the aggressive tactics we have come to know so well from the "color revolutions" of the past. Yet this Orange movement is dried up and rotten to the core, a juice-less phenomenon which holds up as a political ideal the faceless bureaucracy of Brussels, which is rightly hated from Greece to Spain to what used to be the free country of England. Good luck with that!

The pro-EU hooligans in the streets of Kiev are pawns in a larger game: the new cold war with Russia. This battle is being waged with the Europeans in the front lines and the Americans finagling and maneuvering behind the scenes, eager for vengeance against the one man who has successfully defied and outsmarted them at every turn: Vladimir Putin. …

Read more:

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2013/12/01/ukraine-defends-its-sovereignty/

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:16 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

Ukraine has the same curse as Poland 1939. Which carnivore shall make a meal of you?  Perhaps both.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:18 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

It’s now root hog or die, Kayman, both for Americans and Europeans. There’s no law to contain this banker-directed takeover. It time to stop running; people have to fight for most of what’s worth having and what’s worth having is what this lawless Empire covets.

The International bankers live by the gun, by war, by confiscation. The willingness to resist, to fight back is all that will stop them.

The way one of Louis L’Amour’s western heroes put it: “A man’s only king as long as folks let him be…

“It was right about then that I decided I’d better go right after them instead of settin’, waitin’, and finally getting clobbered.

“Some folks take to running. Some folks hope that by backing up far enough they’ll not have trouble, but it surely doesn’t work. I’d ridden all over the Rio Grande, Mogollon, Mimbres, La Plata, and Mesa Verde country and what I saw was a lesson.

“The Indians there were good Indians, planting Indians. For a long time they lived in peace and bothered nobody, and then Navajo-Apache tribes came migrating down the east side of the Rockies. They found a way west without climbing over the mountains. Those nice, peaceful tribes along the Rio Grande were shoved right off the map. Some were killed, some fled to western lands and built cliff house, but you couldn’t escape by running. The Navajo followed them right along, killing and destroying. Had they banded together under a good leader and waited they might have held the Navajo off, but when danger showed a family or group of families would slip away to avoid trouble, and those left would be too few to hold off the enemy.

“Finally, most of them were killed, the cliff houses fell into ruins, the irrigation projects they’d started fell apart. The wild tribes from out of the wilderness had again won a battle over the planting peoples…so it had always been….

“They’d pull out rather than make a stand, and they saw all they’d built fall apart, saw their people cut down, saw their world fall apart…

“I’d had enough of waiting. I wasn’t going to sit and let them bring death to me… I was going after them. I was going to root them out...”

Merry Christmas! Kayman. And may it be a happier New Year.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:34 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

JR

Always a pleasure.

I have to ask.  What is the great moral truth? Are we ants scurrying around, bound by invisible forces, predestined to dance, to justify our fears in the grand emptyiness of the Multiverse ?  Or are we here for God's amusement ?

Merry Christmas my friend.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment bobert
bobert's picture

Or, are you mentioning God for your amusement?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:35 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

The beauty of the creation heavily suggests that the worker ants have a purpose. The purposes are obviously hidden from us, and thus, the race came seem abstract and futile but the clockwork and mechanism of life is too intricate and eternal not to have been planned, to be without purpose. What would life be without the purpose? A void, of nothingness.

“There are no easy answers but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” – Ronald Reagan

As the great C.S. Lewis,said in Mere Christianity, “The only things we can keep are the things we freely give to God. What we try to keep for ourselves is just what we are sure to lose.”

That’s enough for me in this age-old conflict, Kayman. In the end, the light overcomes the darkness. And that’s why I, and you, keep pressing on, Kayman. And let the chips fall where they may.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 18:01 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture

Thank you.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:42 | Link to Comment bobert
bobert's picture

I thank you also.

 

Good response.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:07 | Link to Comment jumped_ship_and_swam
jumped_ship_and_swam's picture

JR, you are right that joining Europe would not serve Ukraine's interests.  You are wrong to assume that is the issue.

The people are fed up with this government.  Its transparent thefts from every element of the public domain.  Its savagery and crude hipocricy.  One can hope that Ukraine is too smart to rush into Europe's arms, to fall into the snares of the IMF.  However, if this is the issue that will free them from this stupid and corrupt government, let it be.

 

 

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 16:57 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

Ukraine may be corrupted but the EU is a tryanny: the EU will not "free" the Ukrainians.  If Ukraine's system is corrupted it needs to be reformed. But if it’s taken over by the forces of the EU bankers then its over for Ukrainians; there’s no route back. Why, if you are right does the EU demand “the ‘reform’ of Ukraine’s electoral system, which unfairly favors candidates popular with the Ukrainian people rather than the EU’s in-country sock puppets (the EU where 11 of its 27 executive body commissioners are communists)"?

“In reality , the World Bank and IMF (both satellites of the Fed) promote poverty,” which explains why the peoples of so many recovering and developing nations remain poor.

Lord Aikins Adusei on May 30, 2009, gives many of the answers in IMF and World Bank: Agents of Poverty or Partners of Development. Adusel charges that decade after decade poor countries have been losing billions of dollars in revenue to rich multinational corporations with the support and collusion of the IMF and World Bank.

“The unflinching support that the Bank and the IMF give to multinational corporations against the wishes of third world governments is another reason why poverty is still rampant in Africa and elsewhere. For example, in 1998 the Pakistani anti-corruption agency investigated over 20 Western companies for paying kickbacks to Benazir Bhutto's government for public contracts to provide electricity. Six of the companies later confessed to offering bribes. Instead of receiving support from Britain, France, the US, IMF, World Bank and other Western governments they were told to quash the investigation on the grounds that investors would shy away from Pakistan. The IMF even made a package of loans conditional on the government dropping the charges against the companies involved. Source: http://www.thecornerhouse.org.uk/item.shtml?x=51975

“In the end Pakistan had no choice but to stop the investigations.

“It is on record that about 45% of all World Bank project contracts go to multinationals in the US, Germany and Britain why? Why not companies in these poor countries where the projects take place and who finally end up paying for the projects?

“But it is not surprising that these multinational financial institutions behave the way they did. Both institutions only acknowledged in 1996 the role corruption plays in entrenching poverty after more than 50 years in existence. Why did they continue to loan to the dictators after mounting evidence that they were looting the loans? Why did it take World Bank 50 years to recognise the devastating impact corruption was having on the world´s poor? Could it be that both institutions are corrupt themselves?”

The EU, the US Federal Reserve, the IMF, and the World Bank are one. Ukrainians should stay clear.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 13:12 | Link to Comment starman
starman's picture

From what I see this a very nicely controlled Black Friday event.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 14:50 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

They want to be part of the Euro and Western Europe?  Funny.

Don't they realize that dream is dying faster than Stalin's did?

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 15:04 | Link to Comment Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The EU terms for Ukraine to join would crush the Ukraine's mainstreet economy and cut off their markets to the east and their cheap gas supplies. Yes, Ukriane can frack, but this will not produce energy cheaply. The cost for Ukrainian gas will be orders of magnitude higher than Russian supplied gas. The EU has already demanded that the Ukriane increase the retail price of energy by 40% as a start on terms of the cooperation agreement.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:47 | Link to Comment Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

You got that right, Jack. The EU status quo wants to steal the Ukraine for the profit of the few, and sends agent provocateurs to do its dirty work for the globalist international central bank crime syndicate.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment bombdog
bombdog's picture

And to think that the Germans had to invade last time. Not picking on the Germans per se, just saying that you had to fight them to take control of their resources, now you just bribe a few fools and foment a colah revolution!

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 15:59 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

Hmmmm.....

From the perspective of the average young person with a trace of ambition:

1. Join the EU and move to any number of countries that are in better shape and have more opportunities.

2. Stay where you are and put up with the same old shit for the rest of your life.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 20:27 | Link to Comment bombdog
bombdog's picture

You're probably right about that - these young people, they may well have that perspective but it's completely misplaced. The EU is a prison of nations, especially for already weak nations like Ukraine. It will end badly. The EU politicians even know it will hurt the Ukraine to join and they simply don't care. They are dyed in the wool corporatist/socialist/technocrat pigs with a massive power agenda. It's disgusting to watch.

Mon, 12/09/2013 - 04:30 | Link to Comment ebear
ebear's picture

I agree completely, but have to say, the down votes surprised me.  I was wearing my young-guy hat when I wrote that, which falls under the heading "seen though others' eyes" - part of the ZH zeitgeist, I believe.  In short, I just asked myself, "as a 20 something with smarts and a bit of education, what would *I* do?"

On the greater question, I'd say Europe has more potential to throw off its oligarchs than Russia (all the moreso with Ukraine back in the fold).  That is, if you see "throwing off oligarchs" as the way forward.  If not, then I'd still go west, since their brand of oppression comes with a milder winter.

Sun, 12/08/2013 - 17:44 | Link to Comment Constitutional ...
Constitutional Republic's picture

Rothschild led central banks see the European Union and euro as their crowning glory, and they will try to ruin any country that rejects the Rothschild-led central bank model; the old feudalism is the new feudalism.

They sent their agent provocateurs Lenin, Trotsky, Marx to ruin Russia before. Putin knows this.

Libya, Iran, Syria, Iran...any country that defies the old monechangers is invaded and ruined.

Modern Russia and modern China are more aware and resilient than their forbears, imo.

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