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Gold Halted As Prices Spike Higher; Stocks Stumbling

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Gold (>$1260) and silver (>$20) are extending yesterday's gains as US markets awake this morning. The crack higher at around 8:07ET caused the futures market to be halted after 3,000 Gold Futures contracts traded in one second at 08:07:45 on December 10, 2013 sending the price up $10 and tripping circuit breakers for 10 seconds. Silver is now +4% on the week and gold +2.5% as Treasuries are also bid. Stocks are stumbling overnight, driven by the "fundamentals" of a drop in EURJPY after it tagged 142 overnight and fell back.

PMs spiking again at the US open...

And halted at 8:07 - as Nanex shows,

About 3,000 Gold Futures contracts traded in one second at 08:07:45 on December 10, 2013 sending the price up $10 and tripping circuit breakers which halted trading for 10 seconds. This sort of thing is happening far too often: see also the drops on April 12, 2013,  September 12, 2013, October 11, 2013, November 20, 2013 and November 25, 2013 which also resulted in trading halts.

1. February 2014 Gold (GC) Futures Trades.



2. February 2014 Gold (GC) Futures Trades - Zoom.



3. February 2014 Gold (GC) Futures Depth of Book (how to read).


 

 

and stocks tumbling to play catch up to JPY carry...

 

and Treasuries are bid...

 

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Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:36 | 4231953 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Wack a mole.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:47 | 4231971 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

The Huns are at the gate!

 

Just growl at them.....maybe they'll just go away.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:48 | 4231996 knukles
knukles's picture

Is this "What God Wrought?" to paraphrase Tommie Edison (the arch enemy of Nikola Tesla) when the Bullion Banks become Net Long of Gold Futures Contracts?
We get morning ramp-ups instead of morning beat downs?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:52 | 4232026 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

....
The S&P down 5 points is hardly "stocks tumbling".

Are you mad, stoned, deluded or just a "Gold Bug"

waiting to be swatted?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:57 | 4232053 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

The problem with artificial gains, grotesquely protracted, is that any slightest beginning of a retraction can turn into an earth-shaking stampede.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:02 | 4232072 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Right, that should make those

wonder, who bought Gold in any

shape or form when it was trading at 1,900 -

did I get your drift? - am I correcto?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:08 | 4232112 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Man that rack is sure distracting

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:24 | 4232193 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

"You're gonna need a bigger boat."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I91DJZKRxs

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:25 | 4232228 Occident Mortal
Occident Mortal's picture

Been calling gold a buy here for 2 weeks now.

 

Buy gold - http://i40.tinypic.com/29gipnm.png

 

I'm averaging mid 1220's on my long position. Sub 1180 would invalidate the move.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:19 | 4232455 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

USD Index just busted 80

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:45 | 4232557 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Gold is up in "dollars".  Yay!  Happy seal dance for everyone!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvPA4BgEH00

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:19 | 4232658 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

https://ounce.me/ provides a convenient quick glance at Au priced in BTC as well as US$/Au.  The rather handy site also gives prices all in one place for Pt, Pd, Ag, WTIC (oil) and the 10% Treasury rate.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:23 | 4232199 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Distrackting!  Well done, ZH invents another word.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:14 | 4232149 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I've been disappointed with ZH's PM coverage lately.  Turd called this thing perfectly, forwarded the article to ZH, but they don't publish it, but rather just publish tripe.

This probably isn't "it" because JPM, the ENEMY, is net long gold and has cornered the market long (previously having cornered the market short).  The fact that the thin volume slamdowns have turned around should be evidence enough of that.

Ironically, a rising price is the only thing that will save the COMEX.  True PM bugs like me should be rooting for a price of ZERO.  Of course, it's nice to be able to liquidate a little here or there for some purchasing power, but that only drains your stack and lets them win.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:32 | 4232213 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Let's see if they cancel my order for gold paid for by Bitcoin I started yesterday.  Also, Randall Forsyth wrote an influential column in Barron's re BTC last weekend.  WHAT is China doing?  "Bitcoin Insider" answers some of my questions...

"Fun With Bitcoin for Beginners: Part Three"

http://tinyurl.com/mb7no3q

Thank you, mick_richfield (and others) for your answers to my questions!

 


Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:25 | 4232480 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Why does china need bitcoin when it's printing its own currency and buying the shiny?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:32 | 4232510 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I still do not have all the answers I would like, especially to the curious yet massive acceptance of BTC in China.  

Your question is excellent, I will pass it along to the expert I stay in contact with.

Even DoChenRollingBearings's central bank is trying to get more shiny with BTC.  China may have other reasons (I have read, but cannot confirm) that China likes gambling and some of that BTC is for gambling money and debts.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:39 | 4232530 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"Why does china need bitcoin when it's printing its own currency and buying the shiny?"

 

For the same reason everywhere else needs Bitcoin.  Because Bitcoin can do many things that gold and nationalist digital currencies cannot do.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:06 | 4232629 unrulian
unrulian's picture

disappear into thin air?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 15:41 | 4233359 akak
akak's picture

You say that almost as if you do not believe that a long and random string of numbers satisfies, or can satisfy, all the classic criteria of what constitutes money.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 13:28 | 4232962 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

Like be used for transactions that might be of interest to the NSA, FBI, CIA, IRS, and other intelligence agencies, in order to find certain people of interest who think bitchcoin allows them to hide their financial activities? 

What happens when these agencies make their busts and Bitchcoin is no longer of any use to them?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:34 | 4232257 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> Turd called this thing perfectly,

All hail the blind squirrel in his moment of glory.  I can't believe ZH didn't give him his due in spite of all the spamming he did here.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:45 | 4232308 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How do you sit at your computer with all that assdamage?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:09 | 4232428 bullchit
bullchit's picture

S'Ok. Your mother is licking it better.

Regards.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:33 | 4232701 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

What spammimg? Turd left ZH months ago.

Have to agree tmosley, I thought some of Turds latest writings were pretty interesting and definitely worth reading. GATA even linked them.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 13:36 | 4232993 eclectic syncretist
eclectic syncretist's picture

The 2013 low in PMs was hit in July.  Up to that point in the year JPM had sold a net 1,300,000 ounces of gold.  In august they bought a net 315,100 ounces and between august and now they've bought a net 665,000 ounces (of which 388,000 have come so far this month alone).  Their turnaround corresponded perfectly with the low.  How do they do that?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 14:55 | 4233218 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> What spammimg? Turd left ZH months ago.

"Did here".  Did is the past tense of does.  Do you get the subtle nuance of that, jackass?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 15:32 | 4233330 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

What the fuck is up your ass? It was just an observation on the fact that Turd hasn't been at ZH for a long time.

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 00:24 | 4235033 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

What TF? I left him years ago....haha. Well, not officially. Just don't partake in the daily metals report any more...consumes too much time and interfers with my strategy of buy low.....and never sell. Placed an order last week. Can't wait to see my Precious(es)........oh, what's my strategy you say? When I have money, I buy PMs...especially when they are on a 1/2 price sale. toodles.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 17:52 | 4233889 auric1234
auric1234's picture

You don't have to sell physical PMs when the fake price rises too much. Just buy some PUTS instead. It's a paper bet, so use paper instrument.

No reason to sell the real thing until the fiat experiment is over.

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:22 | 4232203 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

It was a fear trade and that day is coming again, how's that budget working for ya?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 19:16 | 4234134 Banjo
Banjo's picture

I purchased a couple of ounces at $1900, I was also buying in 08 when it was $900 or there abouts.

 

Towards the end of 2007 gold was reaching $833 it's up 50% from there at around $1,260 today

In 2007 DJIA was reaching 14,000 it's up 15% from there at around 16000

IN 2007 S&P was reaching 1560 it's up 16% from there at around 1800

 

I would suggest looking at the immediate short term of your favorite investment and making decisions based on that.

I also recommend buying all major tops going ALL IN, as a solid foundation to manage your portfolio. This includes Apple, RMS, Worldcom, Enron, Amazon, Silver and Gold. If you do this with leverage even better.

 

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:54 | 4232366 Doña K
Doña K's picture

@ He Who Carried

You need reading lessons as the title is "Stumbling" not "Tumbling"

I would not give you grammar lessons but your accusatory manner.

Manners still count

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:36 | 4232520 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Doña K wrote: "Manners still count"

Yes, they do in my book as well.  Good on you.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:50 | 4232573 juslen
juslen's picture

Stumbling. Big differense.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 13:08 | 4232747 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

It's "difference". Unless you're stumbling... or was it tumbling?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:57 | 4232054 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Tommie was, apparently, misquoting Samual Morse's "What hath God wrought?" message sent from the Supreme Court to the B&O railroad depot in Baltimore. Slightly over 150 years later, using a newer version of electronic messaging, John Roberts sent a message saying "What have I done?" to someone named BO, but that only got as far as that big white building on Pennsylvania Avenue. It wasn't even December 7, but it nevertheless was a day that will live in infamy, to borrow a line from some other obscure politician.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:07 | 4232420 BandGap
BandGap's picture

What Hath God Wrought was Morse when they were laying the Trans Atlantic Cable.

The real fight is starting to pick up. How much can the Feds suppress PMs with all the other bullshit going on?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:47 | 4231983 knukles
knukles's picture

Where's the "E"?

Y'all notice that layoffs around the world seem to be accelerating?  And in the damnedest spots.  Like a BBG headline about how "immigrants" are keeping the Ozzie economy afloat offsetting the decline in mining activity.

Decline in mining activity?
Kinda contemperaneous indicator?
Layoffs?
Not temporary

And immigrants?

And talk about Propaganda.
Last night I'm tuning to a financial channel and what do I see an ad for?
A full length feature movie about the life of Nelson Madella.
Out in time for Christmas.
Talk about (no it's not a fucking coincidence, to fucking many of them... duh... glitches, excuses, etc) Propaganda!
 

Timed!

 

Damn!

And you were wonderin' why one should own gold, huh?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:20 | 4232190 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Out in time for Christmas.

This was all planned ... they whacked Mandella.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:27 | 4232226 duo
duo's picture

Mandela was on life support.  All they had to do was pick the date.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:58 | 4232379 Doña K
Doña K's picture

They may have checked with Obama's schedule.

BTW: It's raining like hell here very unusual for December

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:11 | 4232641 unrulian
unrulian's picture

...ahh yes...you're right...Here in Canada in recent months and weeks it's all you hear...layoffs and in more traditional sectors, mining, food production etc.. heinz plant last week, kelloggs plant this week, pot ash corp ...it's been a constant buzz lately

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:50 | 4232010 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

A mole whacked alright...

Alan Greyson (dick) Florida... got smoked for 18 million in some scheme that I'm sure was totally above board.

.... has had a long record for picking winning stocks, which formed the basis for his personal fortune.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53785514

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:03 | 4232075 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

And it could not have happened to a nicer fucking guy.... sarc/

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:06 | 4232103 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Grayson got what he deserved for investing in stuff not listed on the Congressional Insider Stock Tips bulletin. Curiously, I find myself on occassion agreeing with him; maybe 2% of the time. Usually, however, he's as useless as thet idiot congresscritter from New Hampshire, Ann Kuster, who claimed - in front of constituents - that a House Resolution was the Senate's, not House business. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEeX8q1NQ4w

And these are the types making our laws? Thank heaven they've been slow to do anything this year.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:29 | 4232238 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

Remember, to rise to high office, all you have to do is find an opening on the D ticket.  Their voters party vote en masse without rational due diligence or careful consideration.  LIVs as swing voters...whatta concept.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:37 | 4231954 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

PM's ironically have become "the fed is going to taper" play. The best thing to do is short every single fkin rally in PM's and BTFD on every tiny correction in stawks. 

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:40 | 4231970 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

er...um...no.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:42 | 4231977 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

good luck pal.

with that said, this is a stunning amount of activity by 4 old guys on their phones.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:51 | 4232020 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

upped

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:39 | 4232533 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> short every single fkin rally in PM's

You ain't makin' no friends with the gold Nazis.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:36 | 4231958 Took Red Pill
Took Red Pill's picture

it's up until it's knocked down again

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:40 | 4231967 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

This time is different.  No really.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:04 | 4232083 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

No shit

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:59 | 4232380 HungryPorkChop
HungryPorkChop's picture

We'll know the bottom is in once the usual suspects turn on their bullion algorithms in reverse.  Someone savy out there in the trading world should know the signs of these algorithms. I'm not overly optomistic anything has changed and this is the usual work of the banks pulling the metals up by 10% just to short them again and kick them even lower.  Remember these prices are 40:1 and 60:1 paper to real phyzzz.  So they are controlled by algorithms and paper!  They are completely disconnected with real supply and demand.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:41 | 4231965 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Make it Rain....

 

$1,900 will be here sooner than you think.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:40 | 4231969 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

It's going to see $1,000 before $1,900

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:42 | 4231978 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Click your heels three times fonz......you'll be there before you know it!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:46 | 4231988 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I have long since suspended any belief that these limp dick rallies bare any significance to a real market at work my man. I feel bad for those who still do. I'm not saying it won't have it's day in the sun. It just won't be because 4 guys in a room with some phones decided to upend the financial system.

Anyone who thinks this is real is clicking their heels, and will end up in shitsandwichville.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:49 | 4232014 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Agreed. Anybody who is buying gold and silver for anything else besides insurance is deluding themselves. TPTB will knock this shit right back into it's place.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:51 | 4232029 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Thank you for speaking the truth, which amazingly is still not understood by 90% of this place.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:07 | 4232048 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Crank up the Normalcy Bias.......we need warp speed here.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:02 | 4232609 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

If a boner happens RIGHT AROUND 8am EST, IT'S THE FIX, YA GENIUSES.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:07 | 4232095 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

That implies that the status quo, engineered by TPTB can last indefinitely.

It cannot, and the Powers know that better than anyone.

The idea that a worldwide fiat currency regime is unstable is not just a pious wish of goldbugs, it's obvious, observable, and measurable.  The Powers know that it is unstable better than we do.

The Powers have not been 'selling' gold these past 40 years because they want to suppress its price forever.  They have been 'selling' it mostly to themselves, so that when they are finally forced to return to a hard currency regime, they will own a much larger percentage of the hard money than they did 40 years ago.

When the structure of the status quo becomes sufficiently unstable, the Powers will not stand there trying to support it until it collapses and destroys them.  They are not stupid.

They will walk away, pick up a telephone, and say "Pull it."

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:29 | 4232246 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Again that's why you buy precious metals as insurance and not an investment.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:28 | 4232491 Odin
Odin's picture

Riiight, except insurance is usually purchased as a safeguard against a SMALL possibility that something bad will occur. If you think that there is only a small possibility that all of this money printing and blatant market manipulation will one day go drastically wrong, I have some excellent land down in Florida that you may be interested in...

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:27 | 4232687 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You should quit assuming you understand our reasoning and probably just ask instead.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 13:14 | 4232894 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

1.) Gold going parabolic = bad.  The fact that you bought some gold to hedge against hyperinflation is good.  The fact that you have to use it to buy $60 bread is bad because you're probably trying not to get Reginald Denny'd on the way to the grocery store as the FSA loses its mind because the EBT cards no longer worky. 

2.) Gold going to $1,000 and below = good.  Why?  Because you can buy MOAR and also because it's probably a good indicator that we're not experiencing a societal collapse.  (Sorry, doom-porn lovers).  You may be in the red in terms of fiat if you bought in at $1,900, but so what?  Hopefully, you didn't buy it to make a quick buck.  

Gold is like a gun - It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.  

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 14:21 | 4233115 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"Because you can buy MOAR . . ."

The ones that can buy more are the ones that can get as many dollars as they want at essentially no interest. The rest of us cannot buy more because we need the (rapidly declining in value) dollars to eat and keep warm. Some of us that have saved our pensions in gold even need to sell some of it (often at a loss) to keep warm. This is the way the thieving motherfuckers win.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:52 | 4232794 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

Bingo! Well said.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:12 | 4232133 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

I agree with all your observations.  What's really bad is people will flood in to buy this bounce and gold will quickly resume its downtrend and destroy those that "bought the dip".  I mean, the timeline for this market demise is soooooo long.  All other economies must start their spiral into the abyss before we go.  Central banks will print, for ahwile.  This could take 20 years to play out.  Don't be a fool and buy 100% into PM.  Your allocation should be 10% in gold/silver/platinum.... or whatever.  Only 10% total of your portfolio should be in this area.  So 7% gold and 3% silver.  And sleep at night.  Also, why would gold be going up if the FED is considering a taper?  If gold is up due to the Ukranian crisis, then that will be over quick.  No sustainable rally in gold will prevail.  It's a trader bump.  Someone covered a short in the lowest volume of the day.  Someone bought 3,000 contracts at once?  lol.  No "investor" does that.  That was a total short covering.  Yes, 1,000 will be here sooner than 1,500.  Maybe by 2nd qtr next year.  Wait till last week of December when all the portfolio shuffling begins.  Gold will drop 5% between now and end of year.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:25 | 4232216 Debugas
Debugas's picture

"why would gold be going up if the FED is considering a taper"

because taper would make speculators move from stocks into gold

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:15 | 4232440 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

According to that theory, gold would go up in a rising interest rate environment.  When interest rates rise, gold goes down.  "Speculators" don't buy gold as an alternative to stocks in a rising interest rate environment.  So, terrible investment idea there.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:30 | 4232704 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

How is the interest rate climbing much higher without compounding the risk of sovereign debt default exactly? Most of the people here understand the situation, why do you not understand this? Revaluate your premises again and then try again.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 14:33 | 4233150 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

"Most of the people here understand the situation, why do you not understand this?"

LOL.  Yeah keep telling yourself that.  Keep taking those losses all the way down to pre-Lehman levels.  This article on zero hedge 2 months ago may apply to you:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-04/decision-making-and-10-most-common-psychological-biases-investing

We aren't in a free market bro.  So don't invest/trade/speculate in it like its one.  You clowns kill me.  Buying every dip and drop in the market.  Where the hell are u getting this money?  You're buying based on what premise?  Seriously.  Why are you buying gold right here?  Do you know why or why not?  Because this whole environment is a huge "DONT BUY" right now.  But you're offering up all this sage investment advice based on sovereign default?  LOL.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 17:41 | 4233857 auric1234
auric1234's picture

I buy now because the whole thing could break down at any moment, just like it did in 1971. And when it does they won't have the decency to tell me in advance, just like they didn't in 1971.

If the price goes lower after I've bought, but I succeeded in getting the metal in hand and leaving them the worthless paper, I couldn't give a shit's ass about the downtrend. Except that it allows me to buy even cheaper next time.

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:30 | 4232705 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

How is the interest rate climbing much higher without compounding the risk of sovereign debt default exactly? Most of the people here understand the situation, why do you not understand this? Revaluate your premises again and then try again.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 14:46 | 4233185 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

Re-evaluate my premise?  lol.  I dont have to.  If you're invested in PM beyond 10 or 20% you're an idiot.  If you're invested at 100% you're an even bigger idiot.  But let me guess, everyone on here bought at 273/ounce back in 1987.  lol.  I would venture to guess those that really own gold are taking an ass pounding over the past 2 years.  Very few of you got in below 1000.  So yeah, you're up 25% since pre-Lehman.  Congrats.  Pay that 20% premium on silver coins and go live in your cave with your AR-15 and MRE's until the Great Economic Collapse makes you rich.  LOL.  I've never seen more delusional "sheep" in my life.  If you think owning PM makes you a non-sheep you're even more than delusional, it makes you sad. 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 15:51 | 4233409 akak
akak's picture

Jon Nadler, is that you?

We don't get that many full-bore Stockholm Syndrome sufferers on these boards, so it is always highly entertaining when one such as you accidentally stumbles in.

What is it about "the inevitable collapse of the current fiat currency-based financial and monetary status-quo" that you do not understand?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:41 | 4232283 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> This could take 20 years to play out.

NFW. Food is already expensive. When it inevitably gets more so, and the packaging shrinks to nothing, the masses will push back and the riots will start. We're pretty close right now ... just one more 'glitch' and it goes pop.

> Your allocation should be 10% in gold/silver/platinum.... or whatever.  Only 10% total of your portfolio should be in this area.  So 7% gold and 3% silver.

Who taught you this shit and where did you get these nice round numbers? Why not 10.6% or 12.8?

Admit it, you read this shit somewhere from an MSM source at least five years ago.

I junked ya for perpetuating bullshit.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:24 | 4232485 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

Who taught me this shit?  Lol.  Read.  10% PM's in a portfolio is insurance.  Gold to silver should be 2 parts gold, 1 part silver or 66% gold and 33% silver.  Thats basic investment allocation for PM's.  So of that 10% allocation, 66% should be in gold, 33% in silver.  So, in case you can't follow, 7% gold and 3% silver makes the total of 10% PM's.  Or maybe you want me to say 6.666% gold and 3.333% silver.  But hey, go ahead and buy your 75% silver and 25% gold in your portfolio, which is probably 100% of your allocation.  Except for the ammo and 10lb bags of rice you buy for your "bug-out" shelter.  LOL.  And then in 2 years when silver is 10 bucks and gold is 800 we'll check back in on ya to see how that rice tastes since you wont be able to afford anything else.

Oh, and go ahead and junk me.  You can't stand hearing anything other than "adding to my stacks" or "buying silver on the dip, its on sale".  So you'd be better off not listening to me anyway. 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:15 | 4232649 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Thats basic investment allocation for PM's.

Who said so and when did they say it?

Names and dates, otherwise you're pullin' it out of your behind. Or maybe it's just common (lol) knowledge?

Why 10% and not 11, 12, 16 or 21.4? Where do you put the rest? Stocks, bonds or mattress? 

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 14:19 | 4233108 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

LOL.  My god.  Do whatever you want.  Have fun.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 15:07 | 4233249 DebtSlaveZombie
DebtSlaveZombie's picture

I decided to be your mommy and do your homework for you, I simply googled "how much gold should i own" and picked random articles from well known sources... just to meet your demands from above.  lol.  have fun bitching about this too... Caution!!...these come from investment banks/services, not from Peter Schiff, Gerald Celente, Jim Rogers, Ron Paul, Marc Faber, Eric Sprott or Infowars (lol)... so the below links may not be deemed reliable...

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB50001424052748704329604578635732901193080.html

"I use gold metal and stocks for portfolio diversification. It should be considered like portfolio insurance, present at 5% or less of a diversified portfolio. When it goes down in price add more to get back to the allocation level. When it goes up, sell to maintain the desired allocation level."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cfainstitute/2011/07/21/does-gold-belong-in-my-portfolio/2/

"If you are looking to diversify your risk with commodities, I usually say a maximum of 10 to 20 percent of your portfolio in commodities such as gold, silver, copper, platinum, petroleum or food is adequate"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/16/us-column-wasik-gold-idUSBRE86F0GT20120716

"Whatever view you take on gold, most financial savants suggest it should occupy no more than 10 percent of your portfolio; and don't try to time its price movements."

 

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 15:55 | 4233429 akak
akak's picture

Hey Jon Nadler ol' boy, your "no more than 10% in precious metals" advice was conservatively sensible back in 1985 or 1995, when we were NOT facing, or in the middle of, the death throes of the current fiat-currency based financial and monetary status-quo paradigm, as we are today.

When one faces a certainty, rather than a risk, one does not talk about "insurance", but damage control.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:36 | 4232717 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Except it is supposed to be 20% PM's to cover your losses if the paper assets get destroyed. 

 

Which was good advice about 30 years ago when there was still something left of real markets in the US. 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 17:35 | 4233835 auric1234
auric1234's picture

10% PM's in a portfolio is insurance.

When you have this kind of morons running the USD, you can't EVER have enough insurance.

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 17:35 | 4233829 auric1234
auric1234's picture

Don't be a fool and buy 100% into PM.  Your allocation should be 10% in gold/silver/platinum.... or whatever.  Only 10% total of your portfolio should be in this area.  So 7% gold and 3% silver.  And sleep at night.

If I did that, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night as I'd be worried about the remaining 90%.

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:47 | 4232560 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

Agreed. It was over 1300 early Nov.    1260 means what, we rallied off of last weeks lows?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:48 | 4231994 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'll trade you a bitcoin for a shiny 1oz gold eagle.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:50 | 4232019 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Doc we said one month on that twitter bet right. Definitely one month. Definitely not six months....right?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:57 | 4232042 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Lol ... I was just thinking yesterday that it's a good thing our bet was six months out. I don't want to break my winning streak. :)

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:01 | 4232066 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I am playing this one humble for my short stint being on the right side of this trade. I have watched Kito go all Shannon Sharpe on you halfway through these bets only to buy the sandwich.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxsHXuM6ah0

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:59 | 4232064 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture

I'll trade you 1,000 worthless toilet paper FRN's for one of your eagles Doc...

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:50 | 4232017 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

If it hits $1,000, you won't be able to buy any before it bounces back to $1,500.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:12 | 4232155 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

No disrespect meant here Team, but if I had a dollar for every price point I have seen that post from various posters.......

Same goes for silver, maybe even more so. Every time it hit a certain level heading down, it was always "you won't be able to____"

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:28 | 4232234 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

None taken.  Look above, we created a new word today!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:11 | 4232639 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Dialogue-ing..., + 1  !!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:04 | 4232091 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

"On the balance of probability, gold is more likely to trade towards the $1000 range than

it is to trade towards the $1900 range."

 

There, I fixed it for you and even then it's still shit.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:20 | 4232194 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

Only if we have deflation and the gold to. S&P ratio will be approx. one

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:09 | 4232427 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

I can only hope.  Prolly unload some more BTC.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:11 | 4232430 BandGap
BandGap's picture

The last convulsion before the upheaval.

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:57 | 4232598 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Below $1000 would be silly, too far below the mining/production cost.

 

I dare them...

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 13:00 | 4232833 KnightTakesKing
KnightTakesKing's picture

I always maintain some 'dry powder'. Au at our below $1000 and I will pick up a few more gold buffalos. So will everyone in the Pacific Rim.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:48 | 4231997 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Then $19,000 then "yeah, sure, I'm going to trade my shiny for your worthless FRNs, euros, etc."

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:40 | 4231966 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Forecast has been up for over a week. 

 

http://bullandbearmash.com/chart/gold-daily-moves-higher-expecting-bigge...

 

This is a corrective move up - the larger trend is still down, but there's time for the bulls to cash in.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:11 | 4232128 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

You're on the wrong site, fuck off.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:41 | 4231975 Balvan
Balvan's picture

Gold is 1.32 BTC if you can't visualize USD price.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:44 | 4231982 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Helps.....thanks.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:49 | 4232001 Balvan
Balvan's picture

BREAKING NEWS Gold collapses to 5040 Quarkcoin!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:12 | 4232147 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Quarkcoin? How strange!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:17 | 4232175 tmosley
tmosley's picture

There'sa certain beauty in it, isn't there?  That's the truth.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:41 | 4232281 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I see what you did there GeezerGeek, top quality comment!  :)

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:03 | 4232398 Bearwagon
Bearwagon's picture

Yeah, it's got charm  ;)

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 15:59 | 4233437 akak
akak's picture

I have to up-arrow your comment from the bottom of my heart after you put such a positive spin on the subject, even if it does seem kind of strange.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 12:02 | 4232610 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

I would invest a little in a digital currency backed by gold and silver if I could input an encryption key into a vending machine and it spits out the physical into my hand.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:42 | 4231979 Racer
Racer's picture

Halted going up? Now there's a change!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:45 | 4231985 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Well.....they had to do something.

 

We couldn't just let China pay through the nose.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:17 | 4232181 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Perfectly predictable though, given that JPM has cornered the Comex gold market.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:25 | 4232219 aleph0
aleph0's picture

Yeah .. that "10$ Spike" must have really hurt them LOL

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:43 | 4231981 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Great Rotation into Hard Assets as they exit uncertain worth of paper stuff.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:46 | 4231986 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

If you want to keep your gold, you can keep your gold.  We just have to turn off the exchange first. 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:48 | 4231995 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

PERIOD!!!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:45 | 4231991 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

Never halts on a monkeyhammer though, does it?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:47 | 4232000 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

JPMorgan is Net Long Gold now and

 


The Chase Is On: JPMorgan Chase Building Bitcoin-Killer

  After years of allegations about involvement in Gold and Silver manipulation JPMorgan is chasing Bitcoin. So much is for Bitcoin "Gold 2.0" "Limited supply" - you can chose already from 43 listed crypto-currencies and now more are to come. After China and South Korea have banned Bitcoin from Financial Institutions the race is on among the Central Banks to outlaw it. Banksters are always ready to help here.
  JPMorgan involvement in the "Bitcoin-Killer" is very interesting in light of recent reports from Turd Ferguson that for the long time JPMorgan is Net Long Gold and will stand to benefit from the Gold price going higher this time. Gold is spiking up this morning to $1260 and US Dollar is very close to the crucial 80.00 level - the end of 2013 will be very interesting to say at least.

 

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-chase-is-on-jpmorgan-chase-build...

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 13:50 | 4233023 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

I'm sure their crypto currency will turn out to be just ask good as their #askjpm idea.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:49 | 4232003 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Halted as it goes higher?! One word, MOTHERFUCKERS!

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:51 | 4232030 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

I'm sure you forget to use the word Honorable.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:51 | 4232006 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

I am downarrowing a lot of these posts just to express an intellectual disagreement, nothing personal; I respect the very great bulk of you gentlemens' posts.

We are conditioned to be bulls and we are conditioned to be bears.

No one rings the bell at the bottom; which is all-in mining costs - which is where we are.

A very large swathe of land called Asia by us Westerners, respects precious metals and wants them.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:05 | 4232101 Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Could it be China has a little response here to those war planes flying around?

 

Just because we sleep together doesn't mean your my only fuck, right?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:50 | 4232025 Paper CRUSHer
Paper CRUSHer's picture

Many technicals such as sentiment,COTs and Stochastic readings have been indicating for a number of days that a counter trend rally should last a couple of weeks at least which will once again give us another opportunity to convert paper profits into physical.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:54 | 4232031 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Fonz, that has been the best strategy if you have the acumen to be a trader.

If not, the best strategy imvho is to buy bullion with cash at all-in mining / refining cost; and wait.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:54 | 4232032 Pig Circus
Pig Circus's picture

I actually tuned into CNBC to AM to adviod that stupid Marxist love fest in South Africa. The dopes were claiming we can take the training wheels off and about all the money that will pour out of bonds because of a small Taper. The market reacts the opposite then what these dopes were touting. Man I need a labotomy after watching for 10 minutes. What a bunch of idiots. I had forgotten.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 09:55 | 4232041 youngman
youngman's picture

Its begining to look a lot like Christmas.....

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:04 | 4232057 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Clearly this is manipulation.  To the up side?  Why would anyone do this all at once if they wanted to buy at the lowest overall price?

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:01 | 4232070 The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Wake me when we hit a lousy $1600 again.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:44 | 4232307 lemarche
lemarche's picture

WAKE MEEE WHEN WE BREAK 1800...

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:12 | 4232148 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

Just last night (no, really), I told a very good friend who knows my investments and has actually profited from them (silver bonds I created), "I am seriously thinking about buying more silver."

Paraphrasing my own insight was this: On CNBC's Fast Money on Monday, Brian Kelly (Beeks) said, "try paying your mortgage with gold. Good luck with that."

Nobody challenged him on that notion, and I pointed out I could pay any mortgage, note or debt easily with gold. To wit: go into any bank and tell them you want a loan, using your gold as collateral. You'd have a loan in hand within minutes. Maybe it's not that easy, but you can surely take gold to a pawn shop and get a loan (probably easier than at a bank), with which you could pay off any debt instrument.

I also said that while all the talk has been stocks, bonds, FX and bitcoin, nobody, absolutely nobody is talking about silver.

$19 and change looks like a pretty serious bottom. May not be, but I'll take my chances here, as, if it goes any lower ($17 has been my target for the past 18 months, and also a pretty strong support area), the buying frenzy will be enormous. I have and continue to love silver at any price under $23.

I'm buying today.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:35 | 4232270 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

I have actually contacted my credit union about this.  They rejected using gold as collateral, more accurately they laughed at me. 

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:00 | 4232390 FreeNewEnergy
FreeNewEnergy's picture

I'm sorry to hear that, but, I think the last laugh will be yours. Gold and silver are certain stores of value, can be easily converted to cash and, other than raw land, are the ultimate collateral.

If I had money to lend, I would surely take gold or silver as collateral, charge fair interest and make good money, all at little to no risk.

Bankers are - excuse the expression - fucking dumber than rocks. They'll loan you money to buy a car (car as collateral), house (same) or make home improvements (shaky collateral), but those old relics, gold and silver, no way.

Sorry, but I'll stick with the collateral that has thousands of years of history behind it.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 14:34 | 4233146 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

error

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 15:49 | 4233160 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

To pay your mortgage with gold.

I believe there are many firms that provide a credit card (debit card) that you pay for with Gold.  They look and work like any old credit card but you pay it off with the gold you hold with them.  You can apparently buy their gold (but they may lease it out 50% or you ship your gold there, where they can't fractionalize it and must return the actual bars if you cancel.

This seems to be the best of all worlds.

I have not researched this more than stated but if you are concerned about confiscation I would only send them a bit of physical at a time since this is a US based bank.  Also fees and timing of selling might be an issue so please research for yourself.

 

I cannot find the link of the one I researched but here are a few including Utah based one:

http://www.coinlink.com/News/commentary-and-opinion/gold-backed-credit-c...

http://www.bankrate.com/blogs/credit-cards/a-real-gold-card.aspx

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 17:31 | 4233816 auric1234
auric1234's picture

What mortgage? Mortgages are for debt serfs. If you want your mortgage, you can have it.

 

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:31 | 4232247 bigerny
bigerny's picture

I just find it strange,given the history of down days smashups to see an up day(or at least an hour or two)of an up 'smash'.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:43 | 4232293 lemarche
lemarche's picture

WELL.. BETTER GET USED TO IT...

JUST AS SOME PEOPLE HAVE MADE ENORMOUS PROFITS BY SMACKING IT DOWN, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DO EXACTLY THE SAME THING ON THE OTHER WAY.. ESPECIALLY SINCE GOLD SHOULD NOT TRADE WHERE IT IS CURRENTLY TRADING...

10/20$ MOVES IN 1/15MIN WILL BECOME COMMON... AND MANY LATE SHORTS WILL GET SKINNED...

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:38 | 4232271 vincent
vincent's picture

It's only Tuesday. Plenty of time to let some air out of the balloons.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 10:53 | 4232357 Eastwood
Eastwood's picture

Tumbling? #%^* off.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:04 | 4232401 Obama_4_Dictator
Obama_4_Dictator's picture

Nothing to see here - move along.  Contiuned DOW ramp to be proceeded with metals beatdown.

Tue, 12/10/2013 - 11:27 | 4232495 safe as milk
safe as milk's picture

oops... somebody at the fed pushed the "up" button by mistake!

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