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When Bitcoin Is Not In The Hands Of The Bagholder
If the Bitcoin marketplace is this excited to accept people's fiat - especially those who have not blown up any bailed out banks, traded on SAC-type information, or abused the NAR's exemption from anti-money laundering provisions - one wonders just how is all the buying interest being funded? And also, whatever happened to the no transaction friction pledge surrounding the digital currency? Actually, scratch that: if there are no transactions, there can be no frictions.
Perhaps the delayed response had something to do with a purchase that took place near the bottom of the most recent selloff?
We wonder: is this how Coinbase would feel about selling at the "top" especially if Bitcoin's USD value were to be cut in half in two days, as happened just this past weekend?
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as soon as hes done with his melt down after veiwing something negitive about bitcoin and his pep talk from MDB
This article is already up on a couple of the major bitcoin hangouts. Expect the brigade shortly.
Sucks to be the guy who can't get btc.
Sucks even worse to have to pay a higher price "in a few weeks".
But it will suck the most when the whole world adopts BTC, each bitcoin has the purchasing power of 700 ounces of gold and you look back and say,
"God I was rude and I called that one wrong, and why?? because I didnt understand what I was talking about"
yep. I dont envy you that one. Tell you what xeno.
YOU ARE RIGHT. Bitcoin will crash to zero. come laugh at me in a few months. Or wait a few years if you want. Come laugh at me either way. When this happens. But for now. You are right. Without a doubt.
The least I can do for someone in your position is let you feel better about yourself and your misunderstandings.
Crystal ball, smugness, or whistling past the graveyard?
More like nutcase babbling.
Is this not the same as all those who take the counter opinion? Very little moderate and real discussion occuring from either side IMO.
@akak
Be sure to bring the smarm when the Swiss recognize Bitcoin as a currency. Honestly, I'd love to see your reaction to that. (Let me guess.. "no big deal, because... reasons.")
Go pop some zits, and then get out of the basement.
I don't buy anything from Switzerland so I suppose it has no bearing.
Even the vaunted swiss bank accounts are losing their lustre.
naw, theres a new world of warcraft just out, they'll be off the grid for days.
where is failstar? i almost miss him.
i said almost.
his mom went out so hes probably skull fucking or something in the attic.
Fonestar probably sold out at the top and is sipping umbrella drinks in the Caymans. The rest of these assholes won't be joining him.
What? Manipulation associated with bitcoin? Couldn't be, Can't be, Will never be?
It's open source, outside the system, above control.
Yeah, right................
To be clear, you claim Coinbase merchant interaction with one of its customers constitutes market manipulation??!? So if I agree to sell you a few cows, then I run a credit check on you and decide to back out of the deal, obviously I am manipulating the cattle market...
Stop spewing nonsense.
It's clear that payment was received in full.
Don't look now but the bitcoin stiffie is softening.
depends on if you take the money AFTER OR before doing the credit check.
When I worked credit & fraud verification at T-Mobile we did credit checks and never EVER took the money or made an agreement FIRST, then kept the money "for a few days" after rejecting the customer.
By what criteria was it determined to be high risk?
High risk as in "we're afraid you'll lose money?"
Or high risk as in "you're from Nigeria and using a stolen Visa?"
"High risk": ‘When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean, neither more nor less.’
In 3 or 4 business days, BTC could double or triple! Or did Coinbase buy the 10BTC, wait for one hour, see that the price had gone up by $2000, and then decide to cancel the order and sell the 10BTC for a quick profit? Good luck buying the dip!
Then they helpfully suggest trying again in a few weeks... Right.
In 3 or 4 business I could develop super powers. That has about as much chance of happening as bitcoin tripling in price.
I was being a bit sarcastic. But BTC went from just over $200 in early November to over $1200 in December (so far). Roughly 6X in just over a month. And it has significant price fluctuations on an hourly basis. So my example isn't all that unrealistic.
Pretty clear cut shenanigans. That poor prick wasn't worthy of the profits. The BTC mafia is no better than the Wall St. pimps.
Yes. And hopefully, since this is a free market, he chooses to take his business elsewhere.
Coinbases loss.
Oh wait thats right.
Coin base you suck. We need laws to prevent this, Big brother please save us all.
bitcoin must be the best monay laundering scheme evar but fed doesnt like competetion as soon as they figure out how bitcoin works they will nationalize it
The issue here is that Coinbase didn't want to fill a 10BTC trade at the panic low price of $699.
Bullshit... they have to put up hoops since the feds watch them pretty hard for AML, etc there aren't much of any real exchanges in america.. i think campBX is one but their volume is dirt.
Coinbase is useful, but not where the heavy action is
Even if tallystick is correct, it has fuck-all to do with Bitcoin in general. As a gold dealer, neither I nor the element AU has fuck-all to do with business practices of some other random dealer. Kudos for Tyler running ZH as a Better Business Bureau on the various Bitcoin sellers.
They haven't had a god damn clue about bitcoin all year, isn't it obvious? They just regurgitate hearsay
I am in the business of selling gold. Some people drive the price down to $1200 and I'm not willing to sell at that price.
Am I evil??
Coinbase isn't required to sell to anyone.
Maybe they were too good for this buyer. Maybe he smelled funny when he walked into their shop. We wont know for sure.
Sounds to me like the buyer isn't very savvy. Welcome to the free market. Better luck in a few weeks is right. Stop crying now and find someone else to buy from.
On the flip side, anyone with any clue at all knows all of these sellers have to comply with AML and KYC laws.
Have you ever fucked with the 3 letter departments? Im pretty sure we all do what they say. Maybe coinbase was telling the truth and doesn't want to be shut down because they let a questionable transaction fly.
We will never know.
Use the free market. Go buy elsewhere. Or cry all day and dont buy. You'll only be hurting yourself.
When I bought from Coinbase the price had not plunged. It was under $350 and on a sharp upwards trajectory. It was an ACH transfer thru an American bank but coinbase reversed the charge three business days after it cleared the bank.
Right after that I dissed them on a couple sites, but when I went back later to view my posts I couldn't find them or other posts complaining of the same.
Coinbase uses a method called "ACH" to electronically request the money from your bank account. The problem with this method is that it is relatively easy for a fraudster to get the information needed to do this (routing and account number) and submit that as their account on coinbase. Consumer protection banking laws in the US are very consumer favorable and thus if someone goes to their bank and claims they did not authorize the transaction (of coinbase taking the money from your account) the funds will be returned to you and coinbase will take the hit. Now, typically this is less of an issue, but with bitcoin, coinbase is not able to take back any bitcoins they have let you withdraw. Thus you can see where this leaves them in a very delicate situation about having to monitor how and who they withdraw money from as well as the amounts.
From the time I placed my order till it cleared my bank was within a typical transaction timeframe. Why as a company do any ACH if the company is just going to cancel anyway?
If you take my money and then say "Sorry, I don't want to deal with you. You seem like a crook. You can have your money back in 3-4 days.", then yes, you are evil. Particularly if the price of gold goes from $1200 to $1400 in those 3-4 days.
of course you sell gold, 90% of the commentors here sell gold which explains all their stacker droning of "buy buy high or low buy buy.. and buy some more, keep stackin!!"
Coinbase is fine, I've used them plenty but they aren't an exchange. They aren't built that way. They really are more like a coinshop than say Forex
coinbase SAYS THEY WILL do the sale, takes the money, THEN changes their mind & says they will return the money.
Do you pretend you'll do the sale THEN return the money, much later, or do you say 'no' upfront like an honest business person?
I like to compare like-terms to like-terms, know what I mean?
As for "using the free market" you CAN'T if you're waiting on THE RETURN of the money since THEY HAVE IT.
Right?
Right.
For Bitcoin to become more popular, the conversion process from fiat has to be much easier and faster. As it stands, this process is the weakest link. If this issue is resolved, Bitcoin will go up in value even faster than it has been.
Or maybe completely the opposite...
The easier it is to buy it the less need there is to own it.
the fact it happens AT ALL is the weakest link.
Bitcoin can only end its ponzi stage by BREAKING all links to fiat.
Making them faster only puts the Fed in charge of all bitcoin.
broke ass ZH can't even do a few wire transfer's themselves to get a first hand experience to report.. once you get white listed @ coinbase you don't have these issues.
Lots of times they will run out of bitcoin on a given day though since they aren't really an exchange, but just a broker. During the recent crash though, they never seemed to have had any shortage. I was on an exchange at the time so I didn't bother with coinbase during the real drop into 600's
but remember, it still is the wild west so stop thinking mommy will hold your hand every step.
LocalBitCoins works pretty good. MtGox is still ok. Works well until the tech guy goes on a bender. You can usually tell when that is by watching the price. It will keep tripping at the same value until they can haul him out of the bar and back to the cage.
China gets to sprouting daisy cutters and we'll have to start trading in person.
I know how to buy stuff with BitCoin now. Look for an improvement in GDP.
Long live the revolution.
If you thought buying was tough, wait til you try to sell as its collapsing
True,
But what if it never collapses. What if its voluntarily adopted by the free markets, gets the fed shut down, and finds parity to gold at a 700oz to 1 btc ratio.
Try selling during that non-existent collapse. Even more difficult!
What if there's a Texas sized asteroid heading toward Earth, do we send Bruce Wilis and his band of cohorts to save us?
Now I know what the tulip peddlers sounded like. Hey, how many BTC can I get per share of pets.com? No, what about shares of Enron? No, well how about South Sea shares?
gold from 1800s to the 1200s.. nice tulip crash.. when is it EVER going to 2000?
dead money
Funny, my stacks don't feel any lighter. I haven't been buying pm's to price in fiat, I'm buying for when there is no fiat.
me too.
bit-conners are looking for fiat bag-holders.
Until you mentally price everything in work-hours matching your wages, and in physical ounces of silver, gold or other goods, you just don't get it.
and when is that?? 10 years ago?? 20 years ago???
a tulip crash would be 1900 to 1200 in a day, not in 2.5 years.
a tulip crash would be from 1900 to 19 in 2.5 years.
You really don't get this 'market' stuff.
MtQox is gone! MtQox is GONE! anything for my quatloos, ANYTHING!
Commonplace with Coinbase to take customers coins on the way up. They give no warning they will even reverse charges three business days after it's cleared the bank.
Commonplace for you? Or maybe you can provide a link backing up your allegation. Surely it's been documented somewhere since its so commonplace for people to be getting ripped off like this.
We tend to look out for each other in the BTC community. Scammers are immediately identified by the first victim within the commmunity. So where again and for who is this commonplace?
I have detailed my experiece with coinbase on this thread. After it happened to me I searched for others with the same experience.
Excuse me for calling them coins.
Yes Coinbase should not have that authority, I had a similar problem when I bought some down at 469, they waited like a week to withdraw money from my bank account, I was wondering why it would take that long to settle, they did not give me an answer, but it seems as if they are playing some buy and hold games, but I hope that is not the case...if so this rise up has caught them off guard..
that's how Fiat works & as long as you're dealing with fiat instead of goods vs bitcoins you really only want fiat (and goods) with leverage multipliers in the middle no matter how the 'magic' happens
.... 'american'
(LOL)
Gives me no pleasure to say this, but I have said before that bitcoin is a test. The structure is being tested. It's not about the money or some liberation movement. NB: JP Morgue getting into the game.
Caveat emptor.
Frictionless is once you're *in* bitcoin. Bitcoin can't and won't fix the red tape in the legacy financial system. Coinbase has to be paranoid about fraud, because those dollars could get clawed back by the bank if it was fraudulent.
There is a way to speculate on bitcoin long or short through Forex contracts offered by Plus500 a London Forex dealer listed on the London Stock Exchange.
Here is the link.
http://www.plus500.com/?id=77170&pl=2
Contracts are for 10 bitcoins Initial margin is 10% with a 5% maintenance margin
The contracts expire on a daily basis so are sold if not closed.
You can of course re buy the next day.
The contracts are backed by bitcoins on MtGox.
Advantages.
You don't need to buy bitcoins or worry they will be stolen.
Liquidity is instant.
Orders are executed instantly no commissions. The broker makes money on the spread between the bid and ask price.
Your money is safe.
If you download the demo trading platform they give you about 25 euros free once you verify your account which is very easy, and takes about 2 minites. Just your name and address and they send a 3 digit code to your phone. Enter it and the account is validated.
You are dealing with a reputable party authorized and regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority in the UK. Its Australian operations are regulated by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission.
the company's Market capitalization to US$ 200million.
The website and the platform are available in 31 different languages in over 30 different domains.
They even have a affiliate program so every trader you refer, you make money.
You are not dealing with a fly by night bitcoin broker, who may take your money and bitcoins with no legal recourse,or deny your order like the company in this article.
Disadvantages
It is not open to Americans
You are leveraging something that is very volatile making it trading on speed.
You do not actually own bitcoins it's a CFD contract for difference so you make money only if the price goes up and you are long
Or when the price goes down and you are short.
Something to think about.
Anyone heard this one before?
"Your money is safe."
And
"It is not open to Americans"
Aww, shucks, and here I was going to buy out Mt. Gox and take control of the exchange. Gull dang it, I thought it was a free currency that could not be manipulated? Shuckey darn.
CFD"s on Forex traded in London are not open to Americans due to American securities regulations. It is not because it"s some kind of scam. Anyone else in the world can trade them.
if MtQox goes down how will I ever unload my quatloos?
here is a update and correction of my post about speculating on bitcoin long or short.
It turns out that each contract is for 1/10 of a bitcoin, Not 10 bitcoins as I stated.
Right now that is about a value of $93.50 per contract with $9.30 ininal margin. A very managable speculation.
BS.
You transfer money to your brokerage account, and only then do you buy Bitcoin.
It's no different than with stawks.
I bet one of their internal systems failed and they later realized no buy orders were filled.
bullshit on you. It's completely different.
Oversight, laws & regulations on brokerage accounts are absolutely nothing like bitcoin fiat exchange grids / servers / accounts.
and they can ALL be clawed back in the name of fraud or government edict.
butcoin, where fools park their money when they dont mind taking it in the ass
Phonestar is nowhere to be found. It was fun while it lasted. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
I actually spotted Fonestar around 31 hours ago on a non-btc thread. It's true though that which you say.
I use coinbase. they've always been cool with me. But I've never done a $7,000 transaction, and I don''t use it to make purchases. I use it to accept purchases on my siteand convert into dollars which they deposit in my bank account for a 1% fee and I am a verified user.
They are just trying to cover their own asses. Can't say that I blame them. You never know who is lurking behind the bushes.
If they tried that shit with me, I'd close my account and go to another agency like Bitpay. That's how the freee market works.
Derp
I think this fiatleak site is a fraud... Or money is flowing into Bitcoin at the rate of $1000/second - or $33 Billion dollars a year.
The problem is we have fiat currency chasing a fiat digital currency. Both are going to fail, because they are backed by nothing but their own inflation. What happens if everyone in the world invests in Bitcoin rides the wave, but nobody grows any food or makes any car tires or anything of value? In a year everybody in the planet is worth a billion dollars but are still starving.
To give any currency value it must be represented by production.
When engineers and contractors start building buildings with bitcoin, and grain and gold production is priced in bitcoin it will have value - it will represent economic production.
Today both the FRN, and bitcoin are hyperbolically delinked from the productivity of the nation, they will have to return and when they do it will cause a great depression.
fiatleak shows $11 million dollars of bitcoin was purchased in China in 14 minutes.. It's 9 pm there. Seriously?
Obama should make a similar site showing Americans getting jobs at the rate of 42,000 / second..
I find it hard to believe that bitcoin has that kind of volume. What is further strange is money is flowing into bitcoin from China at 18x the rate it is flowing into US.
If it is genuine only the Central Bank of China could buy bitcoin at that velocity. I call total BS. Fiatleak is made up.
The Fiatleak website is misleading. The chinese exchanges are operating with 0% fees so traders are just swaping coins for Yuan back and forth for free. Other exchanges charge around 0.5%, so volume is a little more "muted". I could have sold a coin at the high today at $1050 and bought it back at $900. $150 in profit (from my perspective) but Fiatleak would report 2 coins sold for a total of $1950.
fiatleak shows $11 million dollars of bitcoin was purchased in China in 14 minutes.. It's 9 pm there. Seriously?
Obama should make a similar site showing Americans getting jobs at the rate of 42,000 / second..
I find it hard to believe that bitcoin has that kind of volume. What is further strange is money is flowing into bitcoin from China at 18x the rate it is flowing into US.
If it is genuine only the Central Bank of China could buy bitcoin at that velocity. I call total BS. Fiatleak is made up.
I wonder if back when Jefferson clearly warned us that a nation should never let bankers/politicians control the financial system there were any snafus or hiccups setting up the financial system. Nahhhhh, I'm sure it was as smooth as a baby's butt.
I can't believe how much people latch onto these administrative and technical glitches that are short term oriented.
*OR* China has just pointed it's Tianhe-2 Supercomputer to hashing and has built a building full of ASIC processors to mine bitcoin.
Probably what is happening is sites like Butterfly Labs have their ASIC's being constructed in China. China has a large building of them all running if you want to BUY ONE they simply pull the card out of working service package it and sell it to you.
The final hypothesis is that China has cracked bitcoin encryption, or is using an inordinate number of GH/s miner cards to the rest of the world. I'd stay away from this virtual currency.
RE: "We wonder: is this how Coinbase would feel about selling at the "top" especially if Bitcoin's USD value were to be cut in half in two days, as happened just this past weekend?" They have an email for that, too. It's probably something about the transation failed or broke or something went down or whatever and that they are sorry, but "these things happen sometimes," better luck next time.
in a few WEEKS. Love that.
An original view of Bitcoin :
Bitcoin Proves The Libertarian Idea Of Paradise Would Be Hell On Earth - Business Insider
Calling phonestar and all those libertarians to defend their positions !
Somalia ! wow !
That article is the the "Reefer Madness" of bitcoin. Nothing original there and most of the arguments are the same argument just with a different example.
its a good advice
LOL. Bagholders only plz, no SRS buyers at lower prices.
management, ponzicoinbase.com
CNO (Chief n00b officer)