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Fidelity Now Allowing Bitcoins In IRAs

Tyler Durden's picture





 

We are sure this will all end well... but as Marketwatch reports, Fidelity has partnered with SecondMarket’s Bitcoin Investment Trust to allow its clients to save for their retirement by putting the virtual currency in self-directed IRAs.

 

Via Marketwatch,

If you are a Fidelity client, you can now invest in the Bitcoin Investment Trust through an IRA,” said Barry Silbert, chief executive of SecondMarket, in an interview.

 

...

 

MarketWatch previously reported that SecondMarket had teamed up with self-directed IRA providers PENSCO, Entrust and Equity Institutional  to allow investors to save for retirement with bitcoin.

 

Fidelity is the largest and most well-known company that SecondMarket has teamed up with for this, Silbert said, adding that he hopes to add a few more providers soon.

How long until other larger pension funds demand access (via mandate changes) to the cryto-currency? This evening's comments from CALSTRS CIO:

  • *CALSTRS: `WE ARE UNDERFUNDED' SO NEED CONTRIBUTIONS, RETURNS
  • *CALSTRS: TARGETS 7.5% RETURN ANNUALLY OVER 10-YEAR PERIOD

Implies he needs to be "saving" to fund his liabilities in more than simple old stocks...

Is Bitcoin the great white hope for the nation's under-funded pension schemes?

 


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Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:04 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

It HAD to happen.  Bit by bit.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:11 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

I understand the opposition to fiat, but 100 baggers in one year are not an adequate replacement.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:13 | Link to Comment CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

ABG is the new mantra of Central Bankers.

(anything but gold)

Regards,

Cooter

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:33 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Damn fine point, Cooter, 

   but they are not too keen on silver either.  Witness the mountain of short positions, for market making, liquidity, and the public interest, I'm sure.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:37 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

So if other banks offer them to compete with Fidelity, that would make the price go up right? Something about increased demand with a stable supply....I'm going to keep getting them free at http://freebitco.in/?r=25727 for now. After all, I don't want to risk my REAL dollars.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:51 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Everybody pile on, NOW!

This ain't gonna end well.
Not just this.
The whole bloody thing.
Of which this is simply one small teenie tiny itty bitty insignificant piece.
It's gonna be something to watch a liquidation event with Bitcoin.
LOL

How you doin', Pa?
Up to the elbow with no grease so far, Ma!

This whole fucking thing has been embraced way to quickly and smoothly by TPTB for there to be a coincidence, folks.
Y'all ever heard of being set up?
This is the first official move to all currencies becoming electronic and traceable down to the pfennig by your favorite overseers, 24/7/365

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

The Bitbugs won't listen to reason.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:13 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

Maybe Fonstar will let us know what happens at Bilderberg meetings once he is a billionaire

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:14 | Link to Comment john39
Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:21 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

How many paper Bit Coin holders will there be per Bit Coin?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I'm all in. I just hope they start paying dividends real soon.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 23:23 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Fail. No one bothered to check facts before posting this. Fidelity is reviewing the possibility of adding the bitcoin fund as an investment option. It is not currently available for the public.

Also, though Pure Evil seems to have a sarcstic comment, a fund based on the valuation of an asset can indeed pay honest dividends by strategically trading some portion of the underlying assets while the ticker price reflects the NAV held by the fund. BTFD bitch.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 02:16 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Just like PMs you don't own it if you don't hold it.  In the case of Bitcoin, that means you have the wallet under your control and you store your own keys.  I can't picture the majority of Bitcoin users being interested in a product like this and I also can't picture the type of people in IRAs having much interest in Bitcoin.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 03:24 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

The interest in bitcoin seems to revolve around the fact that the current system of fiat currences is broken. People are looking for a store of value outside the current system. The main argument is what this store of value will be.

Bitcoin is one solution Gold another. Most of the heated arguments here are about which of these two alternatives is better.

Both bitcoin and Gold advocates have a strong libertarian bent, on that we can agree.

Many on this board are strong  Gold advocates, because of it's history as money, and a long established alternative to paper money.

Bitcoins have taken Gold's unique business model, limited supply and expensive to produce, and dispensed with the very thing that created this model in the first place, Gold.

This is what makes bitcoins a hard sell on this site.

Perhaps they will somehow compliment each other, time will tell.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 05:31 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

It's spooky when you see so much acceptance and peddling. TPTB are inside. Talking about inside, I did an analysis of the meaning of the name Satoshi Nakamoto.

with my limited Japanese knowledge having lived in Tokyo for several years I come to the conclusion that there is a hidden message in the name based on the Kanji ideographs

Sato = Village or native land

Shi = 4

Naka = inside or interior

Moto = origin or beginning or cause

My final interpretation is:  Bitcoin -----> has esoteric origin from my native land. That can be Japan or China as the Kanji ideographs have the same meaning in both languages but are pronounced differently.

Fire away with your take.

 

 

  

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 05:53 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"I did an analysis of the meaning of the name Satoshi Nakamoto"

But what might be a bit more profitable and/or informative would be an analysis of the source code; or the entire concept of decentralized encrypted virtual currencies.  But that might be a little bit too challenging for the ZeroHead minions, or could derail their Bitcoin bashing party.  Shill on.

The Bitcoin Channel

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 05:54 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"bitcoin, designed by the NSA"

Did the NSA also invent email?  And if they did, so what?

The Bitcoin Channel

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Hypocritical ?

While I share an open mindedness to the possibility it is yet another scheme by the PTB ... it is moving very fast ! Everyone of you who still use USD are guilty of the same "won't listen to reason" argument. They are clearly an instrument of oppression bemoaned incessantly on this blog and a million others  ( at least BTC is still in the undecided camp) yet you still want to defend and embrace it ?

If you're right you'll be no worse off as you're getting screwed anyway but might make a few quid because you were open-minded enough to be an early adopter.

Buying gold bullion with BTC is the same end result as buying with USD .. No ?

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:59 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

 

 

"This whole fucking thing has been embraced way to quickly and smoothly by TPTB for there to be a coincidence, folks"

 

Zackly!  Been saying that for weeks now.  It's just too smooth, too seamless, too contrived.

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

It's taken years, gone through 3 bubbles and had a host of theft scandals. I'm looking for the "smooth and seamless" part ?

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 05:59 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Of course it has taken years, and defeated everything thrown at it including the kitchen sink.  But we cannot expect the morons over here at ZeroHead to know anything about that because they only eat the crumbs that fall off of Tyler's table.

The Bitcoin Channel

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Too quickly knuck?

 

Where were TPTB for the last four years?

They thought they were #winning with gold manipulation.

Bitcoin is a black swan and they don't know what to do about it.

 

Is there any coherence in TPTB approach to BTC at this point?

Except all rats jump sinking ships and cling to whatever floats by.

 

That seems just as plausible to me, actually much more so. FWIW.

 

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:07 | Link to Comment sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

From Wiki:  "Furthermore, no state may make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts, which expressly forbids any state government (but not the federal government) from "making a tender" (i.e., authorizing something that may be offered in payment) of any type or form of money to meet any financial obligation." 

This is Constitutional and has been upheld many times by the Supreme Court.  I don't see the part where it says BitCoin is exempt from private currency laws.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 02:27 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Meh, treat it as a commodity if that floats your boat.  Barter is still legal, ain't it?  I can owe you 3 chickens next week if you front me a box of nails today.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 08:37 | Link to Comment Doña K
Doña K's picture

Barter is not legal as it evades taxation. If you barter you must report the buy and sell. Of course they can not enforce trading eggs for veggies but it is not legal unless reported.

Larger example, caterpillar sends 200 excavators to Iran and gets oil for its factories. It must go in the books as a buy and a sell and show price.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:05 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Keep reading:

The Contract Clause prohibits states from enacting any law that retroactively impairs contract rights. The Contract Clause applies only to state legislation, not court decisions.

The Framers of the Constitution added this clause in response to the fear that states would continue a practice that had been widespread under the Articles of Confederation—that of granting "private relief." Legislatures would pass bills relieving particular persons (predictably, influential persons) of their obligation to pay their debts. It was this phenomenon that also prompted the framers to make bankruptcy law the province of the federal government.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 13:32 | Link to Comment Trampy
Trampy's picture

Keep reading:

The Contract Clause prohibits states from enacting any law that retroactively impairs contract rights. The Contract Clause applies only to state legislation, not court decisions.

The Framers of the Constitution added this clause in response to the fear that states would continue a practice that had been widespread under the Articles of Confederation—that of granting "private relief." Legislatures would pass bills relieving particular persons (predictably, influential persons) of their obligation to pay their debts. It was this phenomenon that also prompted the framers to make bankruptcy law the province of the federal government.

If this was high school, you'd get an F for plagiarism for your copying and pasting without credit, but you should get a D if you wrote it yourself, because it's wrong.  So where exactly is this Contract Clause you mention?  Somewhere in some wiki you found?  Your author's "Contract Clause" seems to be a mish-mash of Article I "No Bill of Attainder" and Article VI "All Debts Contracted."  If it's mumbled real fast, someone might mistake Commerce Clause for Contract Clause; but no, that's not it by a long shot.  And the bans of Bills of Attainder and ex-post facto laws cover all laws, both civil and criminal law; it''s not just about contracts, not by a long shot.

And Article I mentions Bills of Attainder twice, first to Congress and only later to the States; so it certainly does not apply "only to state legslation" as your author says it does.  And it certainly does not say "not court decisions," because the judicial review doctrine of Madison v. Marbury only came much later and from the Supremes.

Keep reading!

Over.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:05 | Link to Comment G_T_A_44
G_T_A_44's picture

"This whole fucking thing has been embraced way to quickly and smoothly by TPTB for there to be a coincidence, folks.

Y'all ever heard of being set up?

This is the first official move to all currencies becoming electronic and traceable down to the pfennig by your favorite overseers, 24/7/365"

 

Bingo~

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 23:35 | Link to Comment Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> It's gonna be something to watch a liquidation event with Bitcoin.


What does 'unconfirmed' means? 

It means that the transaction has not yet been included in the blockchain, and is still reversible. A transaction typically takes around 10 minutes to be confirmed. When that happens, it is said that one confirmation has occurred for the transaction. With each subsequent block that is found, the number of confirmations is increased by one. To protect against double spending, a transaction should not be considered as confirmed until a certain number of confirmations is seen.

~~

Lol ... what could go wrong? Especially once the blockchain file size gets to be a few TB in size and completely unmanageable?

"Only 5% left to download of 2.6TB ... gotta hurry!"

MSOS: BSOD!

 

Lol... fools and their virtural money.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:07 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
Thu, 12/12/2013 - 15:22 | Link to Comment PTR
PTR's picture

I get ill to my stomach thinking about the dream I had to that affect.

It makes me look at legislation in the 90's that kept the internet "unregulated" and "tax free" in a slightly differnet light.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment AvoidingTaxation
AvoidingTaxation's picture

Perhaps the US gov found the stash of bitcoin of Satoshi and DPR and now wants to create this thing.

People, this thing is going really crazy:

I mean an IRA and an Isurance??

11 billion!!!

http://coinmarketcap.com/

IS a lot of endorsment folks

FUKING UNBELIEVABLE

 

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:20 | Link to Comment AvoidingTaxation
AvoidingTaxation's picture

And ganja is getting legalizing also in denver now

 

http://rt.com/usa/denver-legalizes-marijuana-private-property-025/

 

hahaha Denver + ganja + imagine being there that would be an action movie

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment WhoMe
WhoMe's picture

That same thought hit  me awhile back as Bitcoin talk took the media by storm. Since when in the world would any banker or central banker for that matter do anything but pan let alone even acknowledge another non country backed currency. Especially one that cannot be printed at their free will. I don't own one ounce of gold but it seems to me that they are trying everything in their power to get peoples attention away from precious metals.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:21 | Link to Comment AvoidingTaxation
AvoidingTaxation's picture

BUY ONE FAST DUDE

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:40 | Link to Comment A L I E N
A L I E N's picture

They see where the next boom and bust is going to be, cryptocurrencies.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 03:02 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

So we have bitcoins, and China has all the Gold.

During the depression in the 30's so much Gold flowed into the United States, they ended up with most of the world supply.

This was the reason the US Dollar replaced the pound as the world's reserve currency with the Bretton woods agreement.

He who has the Gold makes the rules.

Now we are seeing history repeat and all the Gold is flowing to China.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:25 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

The gold is indeed flowing to China, but the Bitcoins are FLOODING into China.

http://fiatleak.com/

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:30 | Link to Comment Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

Because I am slow...can someone explain to me how bitcoin is any different than any other fiat currency?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:37 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Secrecy, independence from central banks, minimal or no reporting when the tax man cometh, but is it a fiat?

Yaz, I think so.  Good kind of slow;)

and a point well made.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:59 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

Bitcoin is Free Man's Money. It bypasses the cartel. If it succeeds, it slays the cartel.

Is that enough?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:06 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Bitcoin is Free Man's Money. It bypasses the cartel. If it succeeds, the cartel will jump on and steal it or lobby new laws to control it.

 

fify

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:13 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

The Cartel is not God, and it is a mistake to treat it as Almighty.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:22 | Link to Comment ultraticum
ultraticum's picture

. . . . and . . . . "fiat" means, by decree.  Nobody is decreeing you use Bitcoin.  Nobody cares.  Most Bitcoin enthusiasts are firmly in the Austrian/precious metals camp.  Can you spell VOLUNTARY?  On the other hand, the dollar is forced upon us by the two enemies of freedom:  the state and the central bank.

 

I expect a normalcy bias toward bankster paper garbage - but not so much at ZH.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 23:53 | Link to Comment Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

Ok thanks for semantics, it's not by "decree."  That helps a lot.  Backed by nothing and has zero intrinsic value…sound familiar?  Oh and by the way, cash is pretty hard to trace too.  Just sayin…

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:26 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"the cartel will jump on and steal it or lobby new laws to control it."

King Canute commanded the waves to obey him.  That didn't stop his feet from getting wet.

The Bitcoin Channel

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:20 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

I love the concept of alternative currencies, or for that matter plain old barter.  I just think the execution here is clunky.  It's not at all transparent, it's a cop magnet, and bad things can happen to your stash. 

Maybe this can move the conversation forward, gradually.  How is bitcoin an improvement over silver dollars or krugerrands?  In some ways, I'm sure it is, but what's the balance?  As to killing the cartel, that's a bit much.  It's at best a tiny, low grade nuisance, and it helps them sniff out the druggies.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 02:34 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

For one, bitcoin is more portable than PMs.  It saves time delays and transportation costs for commerce at a distance and/or hiring trustworthy guards + insurance. Bitcoin recognizes no borders. 

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:28 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"How is bitcoin an improvement over silver dollars or krugerrands?"

Wow, ZeroHead.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 23:12 | Link to Comment Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

Please let me know when the cartel has been slain.  Should be any day now, right?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:38 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

Main differences:

1. It's the only fiat not backed by a central bank or national government.

2. It has rigid rules on the introduction of new currency that are enforced by every user.

3. Every transaction (save the exchange of private keys such as physical bitcoins) is recorded, and thus the economy can be monitored (and manipulation detected) with extreme ease.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:41 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Well it's not the only one. But it is the only one getting huge media attention, making it the one with the highest probability off long-term success.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html

This article says it all so I will post is as a reply to every single comment here just so people can find it.

Enjoy!

 

Counter question for you.

Who is doing the decreee that says you must use BTC.

Show me the public servant holding a gun to your head.

Show me a single law on the topic.

 

Now show me the definition of black swan.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:57 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Outside of government mandating it as its official currency..."virtually speaking", nothing.

The Fed creates electronic digits to offset real government wants & needs everyday, out of complete nothingness as well.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:12 | Link to Comment itchy166
itchy166's picture

It can not be inflated away to nothing by central banks.  It isn't backed by debt.  It can't be taxed if you don't want it to be.  Its hard to buy stuff with it.  It isn't easily converted back to dollars.  People are hoarding it instead of spending it.  It can move across international borders undetected in any amount. Its worthless if the lights go out.  Once lost, it can never be found.  Most don't understand it, and banks and governments are afraid of it...

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:30 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"Its worthless if the lights go out"

The lights have to go out everywhere..... forever.....  If you're expecting that, you might want to see if the Amish will take you in.

The Bitcoin Channel

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment PT
PT's picture

It's a clever move.  The people who hate pension funds AND hate bitcoin are now encouraged to put bitcoin in their pension fund, so they can divert their "real" money elsewhere.  Creates a market for bitcoin where none previously existed.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:06 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

100 baggers in one year are not an adequate replacement.

Yeah, all those big gains... who wants that?

/s

I think price is the least important thing about BTC, but gains are definitely NOT a problem.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:29 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Thomas

Perhaps your doubt is tempered by the "deals" that the wall street goons "let" you have. They always get the mega-bonuses, why not you this time? That's the best part of Bitcoin, you can experience what it is like to have that big corner office, the paid-for bloomberg feed, but instead of the hubris and hookers at lunchtime, you have a bitcoin investment yielding more than those scumsuckers could pull in 5 years, if they tried.

And that is the difference. You don't have to sell your soul to get the returns the Wall Street parasites have been enjoying via their expense accounts and "perks" while main street suffers. Go long bitcoin, and I promise you, you won't have to put your trust into anything else ever again.

Bitcoin is Wall Street kryptonite, and its about time.

Suck on it, you fucking A-Type paper pushing Bloomberg punching fucks.

 

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 01:29 | Link to Comment Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

It is late evening, why hasn't your mommy put you to bed yet?

 

Stack On

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:17 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Fonestar would have posted first, as usual, but he's signing up with Fidelity even as we speak.

Of course, by the time his zits die down, retirement will be a thing of the past, but still ...

It's Bitcoins, bitchez!

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:23 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Nothing says "fuck the man" like an open ended investment trust inside a Fidelity IRA

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

safe, secure, sound....

Win/Win

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

You could pay me for life insurance, shake on it, settle it, and live happly ever after knowing your kin are safe in my hands once you meet your reward. 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:45 | Link to Comment aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

You owe a bunch of guys at Fidelity keyboards. Pls send bitcoins by tomm. am.

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:05 | Link to Comment edb5s
edb5s's picture

As if there weren't already enough vehicles with which retail investors can get themselves into trouble...

Between triple leveraged reverse ETNs, mutual funds with 5% front loads, and now bitcoin investment trusts, the peasants won't even need inflation's help to vaporize their savings.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:59 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

The best part is, they'll still charge you a fee for "managing" your 50% loss.

What's not to love ;-)

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:04 | Link to Comment edb5s
edb5s's picture

Front End Fee: 1.5%, Annual Admin and "Safekeeping" Fee: 2.0%, Back End Fee: 1.5%

 

http://www.bitcointrust.co/

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:46 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

A five percent loss right off the top...lol.

The BitSter who financed his Lamborghini got a better rate in fiat deduction, course, he probably stole it anyhow from the schlubs on Sheep Marketplace ;-)

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:25 | Link to Comment hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

Her Lamborghini!

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 23:07 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...ok, my bad I guess, I didn't dig/mine that far down into it.

Hell hath no fury like a FemaleBit scamming a Lamborghini? ;-)

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

hey kackles,

Glad to see you here learning up on bitcoin.

let me know if you have any questions.

I'll field them all day.

 

Fuck the Fed. Bitcoins for Liberty!

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

akak, you seem to be allowing your anger at fonestar to color your opinion of bitcoin.  That is the definition of ad hominem.

Why don't you make factual arguments instead?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:27 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

fonsetar is kind of like Krugman. You only give him validity when you give him attention without him asking for it. 

It's actually interesting. Fidelity getting involved with this just reeks of bitcoin becoming securitized. The etf has got to be months away. Then the real sheep can finally pile in, knowing that it is regulated and safe. 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:46 | Link to Comment Ness.
Ness.'s picture

Fidelity AUM $4,483,000,000,000

 

Fonestar??  Not so much.

 

Talk about being the "short" stack at the table.  Even tho this move might be considered 'validation' of BTC it will end up yet another mechanism used by TBTF to profit off of the sheep.

http://www.fidelity.com/inside-fidelity/fidelity-facts/fidelity-corporate-fact-sheet

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@fonzannoon

So then, by your reasoning, its only a matter of time before Bitcoin is "ruined", is it?

Then why are you so... angry about it? Shouldn't you be happy its happening? Or perhaps its something else, maybe a titan in retail fund management being involved is stirring up other feelings...

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 05:50 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

if bitcoin is the real deal, then why would I be happy to see it ruined?

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 03:41 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

If bitcoin becoming securitized I would think the bitcoin people would be alarmed. It fly's in the face of their argument about being outside the system and the people's money.

Or maybe they embrace it because it adds legitimacy to them, and creates demand and increases the value of their coins. The old if you can"t beat them join them.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:39 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

If people were to fully embrace physical silver by trying to shove a portion of that 4 plus trillion dollars at Fido into a tiny 750 million ounce market, would we consider that bearish for silver?  Would my stack be worried that Fido is now in the game?  Hardly.

The Bitcoin Channel

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Tmosley, I'm actually not that angry at Fonestar, nor I think am I allowing my opinion of him to color my thoughts on Bitcoin.  I just like tweaking the youngsters' noses from time to time.

I'm actually watching the whole Bitcoin experiment with some interest, but I am reluctant to deal with it based on the fundamental impossibility of true internet anonymity, as I explained yesterday in another thread.

PS: I did not downvote you, nor was I inclined to.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:48 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

hey grandpa,

you already tweaked my nose enough by handing off a broken constitution to me.

greatest generation my ass.

 

Most cowardly is more fitting.

 

And I wish we could talk in person. It would be enlightening for both of us I'm sure. Probgably me much more so than you.

This form of comms is far from perfect.

All that said,

I want privacy from government, not akak.

If bitcoin destroys the fed, and government is severly restrained, there goes our gripe about online anonymity.

 

As all out of bubblegum once said

"Those who suffer from the disease of centralization tend not to come up with these brilliant solutions."

The flip side is those honest, hard-working, voluntarily trading folks are not the ones trying to inspect our every move.

Only psychopaths desire that much control.

 

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:49 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

"I'm actually watching the whole Bitcoin experiment with some interest, but I am reluctant to deal with it based on the fundamental impossibility of true internet anonymity,"

So why do you  post under the pseudonym "akak" and not your birth name? I mean you don't believe in anonymity so what are you hiding from?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

+1

if they already know who you are akak,

why hide behind akak.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:00 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

That not unexpected disingenuous response does nothing to add to my confidence in the honesty, intelligence and wisdom of those most vehement in pushing this bitcoin fad.

I am not nearly as worried about my lack of privacy from YOU --- although it is a concern --- as I am worried (and outraged) about my now COMPLETE lack of privacy from our increasingly totalitarian government.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Agreed brother,

and thats whats so cool about BTC.

if you or the NSA can tell me who owns this address, I will give you the equivalent sum for yourself.

https://blockchain.info/address/141EbyCK4aiBFFZdS9RhzSBs98pKsyKEtJ

$500 worth at todays value if ANYONE in the world can tell me who owns that address, I will give .55 BTC to akak.

 

Don't let me turn you off to BTC.  That thought will keep me up at night because as someone who loves liberty, I want you to also enjoy the blessings of liberty. Shit if I could bestow liberty on some strangers with no other info, all else equal, I would give it to the ZH crowd all day every day.

I'll try to cool my jets a lil.

But my heads starting to hurt from banging it against the wall.

 

 

Gold 2.0 is here and I want you to be filthy stinking rich from it because you're a ZH reader.

One of the coolest people alive in my book.

And you keep telling me its broken and its obvious to me you dont know how BTC works.

And I dont know how to reach you.

That makes me sad man.

And now I think back to how I was more polite when BTC was $18 per and how I failed my fellow ZHers.

This is getting friggen depressing.

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:18 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

"$500 worth at todays value if ANYONE in the world can tell me who owns that address, I will give .55 BTC to akak."

Warren Buffet

Now prove me wrong.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:32 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Touche

Lets just ask Warren Buffett to sign a message (this is a cool feature in bitcoin that allows someone to prove they own a wallet address, by using the private keys to sign a message) proving he possesses the private keys with spending rights to those coins. He wont be able to.

To prove Buffett doesn't own them, I will have those coins moved at the time and date of your choosing.

just not the receiving address  :)

 

Cuz you guessed wrong.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 02:16 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Beginning Bitcoiner Bearing just paid out 0.05 BTC to the Contest Winner at my blog, and my article is not even finished (still)!  The problem was to factor 12,094,091 into its two primes.  An example in encryption.

But, factoring the product of two primes is not NEARLY as difficult a problem as the "hash function" behind Bitcoin.

And that is the first time I ever got a Comment at my blog before I had finished the article.  It turns out that there are websites which will factor prime number products for you...

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 06:46 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

You just made their ZeroHeads explode.  The very encryption which allows for Bitcoin to exist, also creates the possibilty that privacy can be achieved.  Grabbe saw it over 20 years ago:

"At any rate, the spook spoke the truth: cryptology represents the future of privacy, and more. By implication cryptology also represents the future of money, and the future of banking and finance. (By "money" I mean the medium of exchange, the institutional mechanisms for making transactions, whether by cash, check, debit card or other electronic transfer.) Given the choice between intersecting with a monetary system that leaves a detailed electronic trail of all one's financial activities, and a parallel system that ensures anonymity and privacy, people will opt for the latter. Moreover, they will demand the latter, because the current monetary system is being turned into the principal instrument of surveillance and control by tyrannical elements in Western governments." - J. Orlin Grabbe

http://www.orlingrabbe.com/money1.htm

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 15:26 | Link to Comment AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Prisoners_dilemna

Is this close? It was worth a shot.

Yonatan Naamad Age 24

Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA Ph.D. Student in Computer Science (Theory), September 2011 - Present Mobile: 617-543-XXXX E-mail: ynaamad@cs.princeton.edu WWW: www.yonatan.us

Mailing Address 84 Beals Street #2 Brookline, MA 02446 Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA Ph.D. Student in Computer Science (Theory),

September 2011 - Present – Research advisor: Moses Charikar Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, New York, USA M.S. Applied Mathematics, January 2010 - Graduate GPA: 3.96 B.S. Computer Science and Mathematics, August 2007 - May 2011 – Undergraduate GPA: 3.94 (Summa Cum Laude) RPI / Princeton Teaching Assistant • Assistant Instructor - Networks, Economics, and Computation • Teaching Assistant - Calculus II • Teaching Assistant - Introduction to Discrete Structures • Teaching Assistant - Multivariable Calculus & Matrix Algebra • Undergraduate Teaching Assistant - Introduction to Logic • Undergraduate Teaching Assistant - Data Structures and Algorithms

World Bank Temporary Employee

• Short Term Temporary EMC Corporation Summer Intern • Technical Competitive Analysis Group Intern • Performance Group Intern “Following the Trail of Data” presented at the 2010 SIAM Annual Meeting (AN10) Programming: C, C++, C#, Java, Matlab, MIPS, PHP, Prolog, Python (+Django), Scheme, SQL, Visual Basic Software: ACT-R, AMPL, Emacs, LATEX, VMWare, QEMU Edit:

This excerpt from Yonatan's paper on Anarchic Matching titled Anarchy, Stability, and Utopia: Creating Better Matchings is a clue:

"While many good algorithms exist for computing stable matchings (Gale-Shapley being the most standard), we would like to consider more natural dynamics for forming stable matchings. Such dynamics are likely to occur in practice if there were no central planner to compute a matching for the agents, and if instead the agents tried to do what was best for themselves in a decentralized manner." "

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:25 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

I am reluctant to deal with it based on the fundamental impossibility of true internet anonymity

Translation: "Something about it might somehow be less than perfect, so I'll stay with my slave money."

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:30 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

My reality takes a flamethrower to your strawman.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:24 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@akak

Busy "adding value" I see. Perhaps you could add REAL value and call someone at Fidelity? I hear they have a nice investment that isn't based on sticking your head in the ground.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:37 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

exponere mendaces...........everybody knows you are VastDom.......

now be a good little girly-boy and tell abe foxman to kiss my hariy white ass

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@dick cheneys ghost

Aww, sounds like someone is angry. Maybe read the Fidelity prospectus about Bitcoin IRAs? I hear the returns could make even someone like you smile.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:31 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@akak

Adding so much "value", how do you do it? Or is it merely the bile that escapes every orifice? It must be uncontainable, much like the effervescent yields that Bitcoin offers. Perhaps you should see further than your own nose and understand that bigger changes are happening right now.

Or you can choose to stay in the ascii undergrowth with the rest of the ZH trolls....

 

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 02:24 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

"Perhaps you should see further than your own nose and understand that bigger changes are happening right now."

You mean like asteroid mining Math Man? I'm sure there's nothing to it. Probably do it easily for $5 bucks an ounce.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Bay of Pigs

Someone seems rather agitated if it is all a technological pipe-dream. Too hard to discount? Bringing on nightmares of a gleaming rock parked in upper geosynchronous orbit? Its okay, at least your stack is still shiny... and.. uh... heavy and stuff.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

What's that damp spot in the front of fonestar's pants?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

IRS will be all over those that have capital gains they didn't pay on their BitCoin sales. This'll be fun.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 02:45 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Cheering for the home team?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

So CalSTRS just unwittingly admitted that the cupboards are bare?  

Maybe they shouldn't have built this lovely addition to the Sacramento riverfront back in 2008, then.

http://www.hok.com/uploads/2012/04/04/calstrs-sd01-hzr.jpg

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

And even if S&P themselves came out with a rating on Bitcoin, ZH and the embedded trolls would cry anew, as if they hadn't thought it would come to this. Its okay, change sometimes can be good, if you let it happen.

But no, a select few will cower near their piles of goods, thinking that it is the only way "out". Such shortsightedness never ceases to amaze.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:05 | Link to Comment BadDog
BadDog's picture

Through and opened ended trust ETF yet.  Does GLD ring a bell?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:06 | Link to Comment Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

Tyler, how about you start accepting BTCs.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:09 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Hey Calstrs....Pssst...look over here

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SPY+Basic+Chart&t=5y

what's the fuckin problem?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:19 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Or setting up an SSL certificate so we can browse using https.

They'd probably lose a big portion of the luddite crowd if they get with the times too fast.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

No Shit right.

You ever wonder why the site with the most discussions on real money doesn't provide secure communications?!?!

 

Tyler  WTF?!?!

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 03:57 | Link to Comment frenzic
frenzic's picture

Yeah because ssl is REAL secure right..

I can make my own certificate no problem.

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 15:22 | Link to Comment PTR
PTR's picture

If you use chrome, you can use the extension "HTTPS Everywhere" - it pushes an encripted connection.  For whatever value that holds these days.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:07 | Link to Comment Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Next thing you know they'll be adding FB to the S&P.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:15 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Onion, or not the onion.  WTF?

How can you tell?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:20 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

You can tell by reading this

http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html

 

 

 

Don't be the last one to cast your shackles off.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Listen, zitpopper, I was a libertarian probably long before you were crapping your diapers, so shut up and don't try to dare tell ME who and what is and is not libertarian!

My skepticism of the latest tulipmania is in no way non-libertarian.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment PT
PT's picture

The interesting thing is that the tulips themselves were not the problem.  Eventually their price reverted to true value.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Erik VOorheis, among being an articulate writer, is also a member of the free state project.

Did your generation create that? Oh that's right.

Your generation got Irwin Schiff jailed.

 

Statist!

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:08 | Link to Comment AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

tax shelter

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment AGAU
AGAU's picture

Why would you need an IRA if you have bitcoin?

I thought the reason you have bitcoin is cause you don't want an IRA.

Could someone let me know if i'm losing my mind? I can't tell what is real and unreal any more.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:21 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Mommy really DID kiss Santa Claus, that cuckholding SOB.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:21 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

It sounds like you need to sit down with a Fidelity representative.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

Maybe this is for people like me who already have a wad sitting in a Fidelity IRA.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:28 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

yes yes it now you get it Fred, I imagine a whole bunch of fidelity higher ups reading your posts now and saying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnKXiQzgbm0

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment negative rates
negative rates's picture

You're gonna need a magician the likes of which you aint never seen to remedy that headache.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Why because as a trustee Fidelity gets to make money managing your money on the bitcoin exchanges and you don't have to then. Plus in the case of most people they'd rather have the trustee who has experience in markets in general like bitcoin exchanges do the trading as long as they get the returns Fidelity promises for investing in it. Think of all those undefunded pension plans drooling at the opportunity to possibly make up shortfalls in funding because of the interest rate squeeze The FED has put on everyone that is called QE.

Overall it is a good thing if more people get in and learn more instead being ingnorant can't do luddites.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:37 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Dewey having been in this busines long enough....your typical fidelity rep can't do much more then subtract your age from 100 and assigning you a stock/bond allocation based on it. They are fucking clueless. Some of their asset managers by the way are clinically insane (I just found this out recently).

You honestly think some 40k a year fidelity rep will be any more successful than a monkey with down syndrome at managing your money on a bitcoin exchange?

As for "experience" regarding bitcoin I would refer you to Steven Wright. "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it".

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Fonzannoon, depends. I've been making money trading coins taking advantage of arbitrage opportunities and I have no formal trading experience. I am only doing simple conversions using preset math formulas to find the opportunities. That a monkey can do. If they know how to do Forex style trading then yes I do believe they have a better chance. If they also know how to options trade then yes again since options exchanges for bitcoin now exist and they can hedge better within the ecosystem without looking outside to do so.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:50 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If I had a choice I'd rather you managed my bitcoin transactions. But that is just me.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:15 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

If you dont hold it, you dont own it. And this is especially true for bitcoins.

Check out the story of this guy. Lived in Cyprus. Had 700,000 Euros removed from his account. Now he worships btc.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=160292.0

Go ahead. Read his story. Ask him a question.

 

But he holds his own!! Otherwise just like with the Cyrpus banks (soon to be EU/worldwide banks) depositors money will be stolen.

Hold your own coins damnit!

electrum.org

http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html

Required reading for all interested in BTC.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:21 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

 

If you dont hold it, you dont own it.

That's what I keep trying to tell my girlfriend, but she keeps blaming internet porn.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Did you try to put a ring on it?  :)

Not talking about the fingers here.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:14 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

Why wouldn't you just buy bitcoin? It's not fucking hard; 5 minutes, two synapses, a little money.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Backing up your wallet(s) to multiple locations, securely, is a bit of a pain in the ass. On a lark, I mined some (800) Zetacoins a while back. Kept half in my wallet, half sent to cryptsy. Didn't quite get around to backing up that wallet (Bitcoin and Litecoin were higher priorities), lost the 400 coins. Sold the other 400 today for 0.03 BTC, sold the BTC for $27.

I can't imagine more than 10 percent of the population having the motivation to create a wallet, make a password and encrypt it, then back it up to several locations, and leave it for 40 years, then recover one of the wallets and sell the coins. Nevermind that who knows what technology will be compatible in 40 years. Either that, or back it up to the cloud and hope it doesn't get robbed. In order to even consider using bitcoins as savings, I'd need some sort of secure way of storing it that I would be confident will still work in 50 years.

On the upside, bitcoin going mainstream as a hyper-bubble means 2014 could be another 100+ bagger year.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

I appreciate your response but nothing about buying, selling, or storing bitcoin (safely/securely) is complicated or hard.

Making a secure paper wallet takes a few minutes.

People are over thinking this because it's new and things that are new are scary. Keep it simple stupid.

Yes bitcoins can be stolen. So can dollars, gold, or anything else if you're irresponsible.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:04 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

I guess in 50 years we'll see who still has their paper wallet and who still has their gold.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

I'll be dead in 50 years.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:03 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Well then, we'll see if your inheritor can figure out your notes to recover the wealth you saved.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:45 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

My progeny can make their own wealth. I breed and raise warriors.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:30 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

This is exactly why I recommend electrum wallets.

Theyre idiot proof.

No need to back them up.

 

electrum.org

 

or bitcointalk.org  search electrum  (for those that actually do their own due diligence)

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:07 | Link to Comment quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

You sure you want the term idiot proof in a thread about bitcoin? 

 

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 02:34 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Are you familiar with Brain Wallet Mining?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:14 | Link to Comment Sixdeuce062
Sixdeuce062's picture

what no fonestar yet he must be writing a huge smooze peice for fidelity right now and high fiveing MDB

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:18 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

I believe someone said he was fapping onto his pile of bitcoins.

 

Despite the fact that the blockchain is virtual and there doesn't exist "a pile of coins",

none the less we can't blame fonestar for a lil bit of celebration.

His days just keep getting brighter.

 

How about yours?

Thu, 12/12/2013 - 13:43 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Sixdeuce062

It really sticks in your craw, doesn't it? That a heavyweight in the retail world is into the Bitcoin option? Its coming off you in waves, you know. Like the roiling air above a mall parking lot. Just wait a few months, when the larger houses are going for it, making it part of their portfolios...

I guess when you start seeing regular analysis of Bitcoin, you'll all just go kill yourselves or something. Its funny seeing people so brittle try to rationalize everything away. Like cavemen in the face of an inexorably advancing glacier.

"GO 'WAY ICE - BAITIN'"

Man, this is too good.

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

This should tell you all you need to know.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment skank
skank's picture

Res ipsa loquitur
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_ipsa_loquitur
Latin for "the thing itself speaks"

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:23 | Link to Comment Possible Impact
Possible Impact's picture

Iraqi Dinar

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnwasik/2013/05/28/dinar-deception-driven-...

 

They are expecting a Revaluation to $3.40 per Dinar.

(Right now it is 1164 Dinar per dollar!)

 

 

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

Any idea where to get a good deal on 10,000 dinars, just in case?

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 22:49 | Link to Comment hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

You can go onto localbitcoins and buy them instantly with bitcoins.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Created by banksters so that they may track you. I am telling you, when these bankster fucks start touting it, it is for a reason and that reason is not good. Digital money is the end goal and you all are playing into it.

Wed, 12/11/2013 - 20:34 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

Well banks also own a lot of gold. So according to your reasoning might as well not own gold....or currency, or houses, or anything and just live under a bridge.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!