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The Definitive History Of Bitcoin

Tyler Durden's picture




 

In 2008, the aftermath of the Subprime Mortgage Crisis created the perfect storm for the emergence of Bitcoin. Here is the definitive history of the famous crypto-currency. From the pseudonymous "Satoshi Nakamoto"'s founding to the innovation of block chains to the "genesis block", buying pizzas, Sandiches, Teslas, and now houses... Bitcoin has come a long way (and where it goes is anyone's guess)...

 

(click image for massive legible version)

 

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Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:34 | 4247341 Dear Infinity
Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:40 | 4247356 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

Unfortunately, it will be a brief history.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:46 | 4247368 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

If voting could really change anything, it would be illegal.

I hope (for those invested) that BC is different.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:14 | 4247430 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

with bitcoin, you do get to vote.

either you use it, or you don't.

that's unlike with the dollar, where you get to vote for the left or right hand of the wall street party.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:29 | 4247580 kushmere
kushmere's picture

Wouldn't be surprised to see a tea-party breakoff as the establishment republicans consolidate control. Might be 3 hands of the wall street party soon.

 

http://bestbitcoinsites.wordpress.com

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:39 | 4247751 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

At least two NSA backdoors in bitcoin allow the govt to control Bitcoin mining.

1. Its use of elliptic curves systems for public-key cryptography. As a cryptographer said, "Prefer conventional discrete-log-based systems over elliptic-curve systems; the latter have constants that the NSA influences when they can." 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-su...

2. NSA designed SHA-256, the Bitcoin cryptographic hash function and it can't be replaced in a backwards compatible way.

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/what-do-the-latest-nsa-leaks-mean-for-b...

 

Backdoors that may take decades to find.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:41 | 4247771 foodisgood
foodisgood's picture

A tv show about a teacher who makes meth has come a long way

The price of PM's have come a long way (up and down)

The idea of health care for all has come a long way

Conspirary theories to facts have come a long way

Alpha seeking tweekers know nuthin of what a long way is

Just ask fonehomestar

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:31 | 4247811 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

well, I'm buying bitcoin just because it really really pisses them all off.  That's my guilty pleasure.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 03:14 | 4247847 mijev
mijev's picture

Who gives a fuck about the NSA? Seriously.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 08:52 | 4248005 CH1
CH1's picture

So, we should just accept their crimes? 

No, we should ACT to protect ourelves from them.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 10:09 | 4248066 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Government employees and their unions.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:37 | 4247765 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Till one by one the companies owned by the ruling class begin accepting bitcoins and paying their employees in bitcoin till it pushes cash out as The Fed kills the dollar.

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 10:03 | 4248061 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

If our markets crash and we are hit with monumental deflation, the US government will not allow crypto currencies to subgigate the dollar -  they would lose control of everything 'important' at that moment such as financing all governmental agencies, banking, trade, and other commercial/commerce enterprises>

 

 

 

jb

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:25 | 4247433 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I am leaning toward thinking that Bitcoin (BTC) is real, and will be hard to ban.  But, so thought some of us re e-gold.

My four recent pieces on BTC ("reverse-Polish-notation", start at the bottom), there are other places that give a more clear explanation, but do not delve as much into some of the math and arcana of BTC.

http://tinyurl.com/9hlvzdx

^--- tinyurl's service is itself a "hash function"!

Part Five comes when I get my gold coin paid for w/ BTC (1/4 oz Au Eagle).

EDIT:

Excellent graphic from the VC guys, thanks for posting this Tyler(s)!

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:23 | 4247449 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Yes Bitcoin will be impossible to stop.  Already a hybrid Bitcoin/Bittorrent client is underway.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:29 | 4247455 Midas
Midas's picture

Weird seeing you around here fonestar!   

 

Just kidding...keep on hashing...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:35 | 4247473 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1 ha ha.  If fonestar has a sense of humor (probably), then even he will smile.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:42 | 4247492 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

" Already a hybrid Bitcoin/Bittorrent client is underway."

Curious--What is the benefit of this?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:59 | 4247528 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Churn.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:23 | 4247667 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Anything about bitcoins mentioned in any ancient texts/scripts/monoliths/hieroglyphics...Book of Ezekiel, Book of Enoch, Dead Sea Scrolls?

 

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:03 | 4247716 knukles
knukles's picture

Yes, as a matter of fact.  There were once upon a time Annanuki who cane from the heavens, were considered Gods, mated with the then humanoids to create a race of docile, easily programmable and indoctrionatable, self-centered, ego-maniacal, lazy, untrustworthy, sloth like beiongs referred to as humans.
The Annanuki taught them to mine Bitcoins which since that time have served as a store off value by Bitcon bugs and Central Banks.
Especially the shiny ones.
But what happened in the interim was that there was one mother of a flood and the dude, Noah, forgot his 1GB storage wand, having left it the night before at the Bar and Grill at the End of the Universe.
While whispered about for eons, it is only of late that Bitcoins have been rdiscovered by some guy name Scrotum Scoratchy.  Conspiracy Theorists posit that he had found Noah's wand and waving it about aimlessly looking for trails he used to enjoy as a youth on Black Cat Acid, was granted 3 wishes, the first was a large pile of Papal Shite when he'd in shock, exclaimed "Holy Shit!"
And the rest is history, as they say having disappeared into the dark underbelly of the ethernet.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:55 | 4247781 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

But was Noah a Rothchild Jew? Frances Sawyer wants to know knukles!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:20 | 4247802 xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

No but here is something surprising. I was reading on Sir Thomas Browne 1605 – 1682) on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Browne

He is credited with the invention of the actual words computer, and cryptography.
Bear in mind he was living between 1605 to 1682.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 10:21 | 4248073 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Commerce applications. Give you an example I am a music artist. I sell recordings of shows right afterwards and I want to cut out middlemen and such for distribution purposes. I create a torrent that can't be downloaded unless paid for. By integrating the wallet into the client it becomes a defacto receipt for proof of purchase since I as the artist on the end other end can verify if your wallet transferred coins ultimately to mine in the ledger. Other advantage more clients on the network the more the ledger can be distributed and decentralized with each client handling a small portion of the overall searching and sorting. This all works on the fundmental concept that the data can be ordered sequentially which means it can be put into extremely large M X N matrices and broken into smaller pieces that each machine works on independently of each other.  It is not just music think other digital formats like movies and tv shows or original content providers. It cuts down overhead costs like webhosting and such.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 12:41 | 4248228 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Interesting. So this could help solve the large block chain problem?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 00:18 | 4249665 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Potentially yes. The ledger itself in bitcoin has issues that need to be worked out being able to distribute it when it grows large enough is only one of them but that can be scaled up in this manner. There are other applications but the basic bittorent technology should be a potential short term workable solution. Another problem is the compliance company ventures are coming out which in turn cause privacy issues and in turn may hurt the fungibility of bitcoin. That is something that needs to be dealt with for bitcoin to have long term viable success.

Coinvalidation is one of the biggest ones pushing this right now.

https://coinvalidation.com/resources/

 

But the alt coins developers are working on dealing with this sort problem. Bitcoin developers also need to follow suite or they are going to get passed by at some point. The whole distributed ledger and privacy concerns issues and speed of search and sorting it are still evolving but the basics are pretty much proven so far.

One coin that is working on that problem is called stable coin. What they do is use something called coin mixing to essentially poison the data.

You can read the gory technical details here.

http://54.242.128.134/stablecoin.net/#mixing

A lot of these alt coins may ultimately fizz out but the things they are trying to solve if successful should live on as the underlying technology progresses.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 10:12 | 4248006 CH1
CH1's picture

Bitcoin will be impossible to stop.

Not impossible, Fonestar. Just very difficult. We have to stay on our toes.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 10:30 | 4248076 Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Yeah that type of hubris tends to come back and bite you in the ass. No need to put a bigger target on your back than needed. That is the best way to induce failure of something. I don't think bitcoin itself is the long term solution but the underlying technologies will be that are being proven right now whether it is bitcoin, litecoin, etc.

Stuff like SWIFT and most of these payment systems are based on solving problems on a communication network and old analog lines. The internet is digitial and distribution network. You need underlying basic protocols that are in line with the network they reside in. You can't have proof of concept and testing without having digital currency that people want to use to in essence do the R & D testing in the wild as opposed to some sterile labratory where it doesn't reflect the real world (kinda how the FED operates).

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:05 | 4247719 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Rule #19a of bitcoin use. Never click on a shortened URL.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 04:28 | 4247886 Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

"My four recent pieces on BTC.."

Thanks for sharing

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 12:41 | 4248229 funthea
funthea's picture

http://www.businessinsider.com/927-people-own-half-of-the-bitcoins-2013-12

When the concentration of all bitcoins is held by so few, it inherently makes for a precarious ride.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:44 | 4247358 The Heart
The Heart's picture

The definitive history of the banksters in Iceland:

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/12/bankers-arrested-civil-war-averted.html

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:49 | 4249242 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

I wish I would have bought coins when it was 1,000 coins for 3 dollars, I would have bought 1,000 dollars worth.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:37 | 4247348 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

I was waiting the whole day for the daily bitcoin article.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:48 | 4247376 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Don't worry, they'll go the way of Biderman soon enough....

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:20 | 4247443 fonestar
fonestar's picture

You can only wish, Bitcoin is just getting started.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:38 | 4247481 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Why are you sitting freezing your ass off in Ontario in that snowstorm when you could be laughing it up in Paradise?

I know some good realtors in Maui. Let me know when you are going to buy a place and I will make some calls. (See fonestar, I'm not a bad guy, I have your back ;)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:49 | 4247593 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

fonestar  You can only wish, Bitcoin is just getting started.

March 1637 (Tulip Mania)... Déjà Vu all over again.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:41 | 4247688 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

And Tulips were a technical invention with tremendous economic benefits?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:56 | 4247782 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

The Dutch still make money off them, but much later, and with cheep labor.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:37 | 4247816 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

The Tulip Mania was fueled by the introduction of commodity derivatives.

Unlike a digital crypto-currency, there were actual physical items involved at the core.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:43 | 4247361 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So Satoshi is like Ben "thinking clearly inside the foundation"? ;-)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:48 | 4247374 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

Inside the foundation looking up is where "understanding" comes from.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:52 | 4247382 nmewn
nmewn's picture

BC...scroll all the way down to the bottom of the graphic and see what Ben said about BitCoin.

My take, a cashless/moneyless society equals slavery.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:02 | 4247406 BlackChicken
BlackChicken's picture

"My take, a cashless/moneyless society equals slavery."

I totally agree with that Nmewn.

I also take from that an admission that there are currently no laws on the books that gives the Feds "Legal Standing" on the issue either, as well as an admission that this is a threat in being faster, more secure, and more efficient. That's what gives Ben, and us, an understanding.

I just couldn't pass up the word play...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:35 | 4247467 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...nice play BC.

My suspicion is, they initially viewed it as a threat, I'm really not so sure anymore. Lets game it out...but its a short game...BitCoin relies on the electronic conveyance of money over the internet for most purchases. Your ISP knows who you are, where you've been, what your likes & dislikes are and government regulates & controls the ISP's.

End of game.

To carry it further, say you were wanted by the state (it doesn't matter for this exercise whether you're a criminal or an innocent) without access to your money and without friends (read accomplices in statist-speak) you're dead meat.

Innocent or not, with the state after you, you would want untraceable, normal, real money.

And several ID's ;-)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:40 | 4247487 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Won't matter either way if they can't get the blockchain down to a manageable size soon....

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:53 | 4247515 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'm an outsider looking in on it with limited knowledge of its mechanics/problems.

My only real main beef has been its not money or currency...if it has limited access, it can't be money/currency. It has limited access by its very own design.

Its digital.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:12 | 4247727 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

It's a pain, but not necessary for everyone to download the whole chain. There are some wallets that host the chain for you. And i suspect there will be a large base that uses online wallets.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:00 | 4247525 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

With or without BitCoin, we have already become an almost completely cashless society. And with or without BitCoin, they have been gradually outlawing cash over the last 20 years.

BitCoin at least gives us some hope of anonymity and freedom from onerous banking fees and regulators.

The PTB were doing great without BitCoin. BitCoin doesn't help them, and arguably, it hurts them. They haven't woken up to the threat it represents yet.

You can bet they will try to co-opt it once they do wake up. Not clear how successful they will be.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:05 | 4247537 nmewn
nmewn's picture

When they buy up all the manufactured from thin air BitCoins, with manufactured from thin air fiat...what then?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:23 | 4247568 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Exactly.  Then we all end up in Parchman Farm, working for da bossman.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:36 | 4247591 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Starting to look that way.

I was off Friday and happened to turn on CNBCBLOOMCNN (whatever the hell) just to see some Buffet porn and there they are, pumping BitCoin's leg like an horny poodle.

That sealed it for me. 

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:07 | 4247640 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

hopefully 'they' DO buy them all up and then I cash the hell out and go to the next thing,..   why are you so religious on a trading site anyway???  are you stuck as a bagholder on your PM's with nothing else to do except wait for the stacker rapture (ie.. grid go dark)

 

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:36 | 4247761 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

So, you're the new Trav at ZH now? LOL..."bagholders", "stacker rapture"? Not bad.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 07:50 | 4250006 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

lol. "stacker rapture"... though I still don't understand why the grid is supposed to go dark for that. what are the chances of the whole world going dark?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 08:19 | 4247985 nmewn
nmewn's picture

So basically, you're waiting for the Fed and its banks to bail you out?

Where have I heard that before ;-)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:08 | 4248292 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

Why are you twisting stuff like that? First you ask about an incredibly unlikely scenario, get the only logical answer (you should have expected it), then in a fell change of rhetoric try to insinuate that this is the actual plan and only hope for cryptocurrency supporters *facepalm*

You thought of that ridiculous "plan" first, not cryptocurrency supporters.

That's like saying to a person who says that he is willing to lift a gold bar laying on the ground that "well if that's the only thing you are waiting for and hoping for then you ain't worth shit, are ya?". Are you willing to condemn the person for being rational and frank about it?

What are you up to?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:19 | 4249098 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Twist what?

My concern was about a "cashless society" and is the companion topic to BitCoin I raised...THE question (and most pertinent to that concern is number one below) & my responses thereafter...in order:

1) "When they buy up all the manufactured from thin air BitCoins, with manufactured from thin air fiat...what then?"

2) (Parchman Farm is a prison labor institution) "Starting to look that way." ie...working for the man, not yourself.

3) (DPS retorts he hopes the Fed & banks buy his BitCoins) "So basically, you're waiting for the Fed and its banks to bail you out?"...of his investment. Not "currency or money"...his investment...leading back to NUMBER FUCKING ONE!!!

My questions & answers are absolutely consistent.

Now what ARE YOU up to?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 22:52 | 4249498 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

I responded directly to 1) here. Now, if we suppose it actually happened, 2) is right. That would be an undesirable situation in the long run and nothing would be able to make it tolerable. 1) happening would actually have a short term positive effect for holders of bitcoin while it is being executed in that they would be bidding the price of bitcoin up with whatever remaining credibility their currency has (there would have to be at least some left in order to be able to do it). This means bitcoin would go up in relation to other goods and services, not just in relation to their currencies. But that is just an extra free profit for those who hold bitcoins.

But since the new situation would be intolerable, the only course of action would be to abandon bitcoin and go into something else, which is very easy with cryptocurrencies.

What is bothering is, why are you saying "to bail you out"? Bitcoin is a good form of currency and it can be held without fear of monetary inflation. I don't see how you could ever use the phrase "to bail someone out" about bitcoin. It shows you see bitcoin as something different from what me and many other do. "To bail someone out" implies difficulty, hopelessness. dark pools of soros says "hopefully" because there would be an unlikely extra profit, not because it is his only hope. He also didn't use the word "investment".

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 07:40 | 4250000 nmewn
nmewn's picture

My entire point was the prospect of people living in a physical cashless society and the ramifications of that...from my first post about what Bernanke said about BitCoin...way up top...to way own here.

And DPS said, in his entirety, and highlighted for your consideration:

"hopefully 'they' DO buy them all up and then I cash the hell out and go to the next thing,..   why are you so religious on a trading site anyway???  are you stuck as a bagholder on your PM's with nothing else to do except wait for the stacker rapture (ie.. grid go dark)"

He's talking about holding until bought out by "they"...then moving on to the next thing.

Thats an investment.

Nothing wrong with that (IMO) but at least he doesn't pump it endlessly like fonestar, hoping for a higher PRICE in FIAT.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:44 | 4251354 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

What can I say about a "physical cashless society"... I simply see no issue per se in a society that does not use physical cash! Not when it is so by choice and when you cover all risks of centralized control, unwanted attention, rent seeking, and so on. You can do that with Bitcoin. It is easy to remain anonymous or pseudonymous over the internet (it's been discussed here thousands of times). And of course no one is even talking about actually abolishing pre-existing physical forms of money - that is not even practically possible.

What is more significantly different from physical cash is how property rights are established. Property rights in Bitcoin depend on two things: 1) keeping your private keys secret, and 2) recording the transactions in the blockchain.

1) can be reduced to physical security - the same thing you do with physical movable property, or even better, 1) can be accomplished while combining both redundancy (holding copies of the encrypted keys in many places), the security of your own thought (no one can read your password from your brain) and deniability (no one can find out for sure that you even have any bitcoins). So far, this is better than physical cash, because of the extra options you have over what you have with physical cash.

2) is very much like a notary service, which people are familiar with from things like real estate and incorporated businesses. Bitcoin tries to ensure that the market for these services (mining) is totally free. This ensures that you don't get excluded, ripped off with unreasonable fees or inflation or defrauded. So Bitcoin is actually disruptive to the notary business. In this way it is better than the things whose property title and transferability rely on traditional notaries and lawyers. If there are notaries or lawyers somewhere, Bitcoin can exist there (and probably do a better job).

So in my opinion it is possible that people could choose something like Bitcoin over physical cash in practically every situation and not lose anything in the process. That said, it is actually only necessary for Bitcoin to attain one significant use for it to maintain significant value for the long run.

For all we know from what dark pools of soros said, he could simply be a merchant who accepts bitcoins, or a consumer buying with bitcoins, and therefore would be holding some positive balance in BTC, even only transitively. So it is not necessarily about investing in the currency.

And by the way, about Bernanke, see his original letter, on page 10 here: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/835843-virtual-currency-hearings.html
Here's the quotation in context:

"For example, in 1995, the U.S. House of Representatives held hearings on “the future of money” at which early versions of virtual currencies and other innovations were discussed. Vice Chairman Alan Blinder’s testimony at that time made the key point that while these types of innovations may pose risks related to law enforcement and supervisory matters, there are also areas in which they may hold long-term promise, particularly if the innovations promote a faster, more secure and more efficient payment system."

Ben Bernanke simply noted what someone else said 18 years ago. This was not an expression of his own thoughts.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:30 | 4252193 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"What can I say about a "physical cashless society"... I simply see no issue per se in a society that does not use physical cash! "

Thats because you're a damned fool and probably around thirty years old.

"Not when it is so by choice and when you cover all risks of centralized control, unwanted attention, rent seeking, and so on. You can do that with Bitcoin."

In other words, jump through ten thousand hoops to gain some semblance of just one of the attributes of cash, as in its anonymity? Again, cash in the hand is the definition of being anonymous. Why should I spend cash to gain anonymity when it already is?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 23:33 | 4252841 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

Anonymity is a matter of preference anyway. I see it as an option that one would rather have, but rather not use unless necessary (sort of like guns). Anonymity is also in direct conflict with concepts such as reputation, fame, building trust.

Anonymity itself has a lot of aspects.

The anonymity of cash is dependent on many things. Think of an actual deal when cash has to change hands. There are countless ways in which it can be compromised (and generally they are very different from what you have with cryptocurrencies). In some cases you would prefer cash, in other, cryptocurrencies can offer you a better proposition.

We are all people and all our actions have consequences, so you're always gonna have to jump some hoops to the extent that you seek anonymity, no matter what.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 07:29 | 4253414 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Anonymity is a matter of preference anyway."

True, at times I use BitVisa when I don't care about anyone knowing where I am or what I'm buying ;-)

"Anonymity is also in direct conflict with concepts such as reputation, fame, building trust."

Absolutely false, anonymity simply means you don't want certain parties to know who you are or where you are. The shopkeeper you're standing in front of can identify you but not the banker or the sheriff unless they force him to identify you to them.

Lets put it in real terms maybe you can understand, I've gone out of my way to build a certain reputation as a commenter here at ZH. I've done it by speaking the truth when a lie would have sufficed (at least in the short term) just as well, that is what builds trust & reputation.

Yet, I remain anonymous.

So there is no inherent conflict with trust & reputation by simply being anonymous. You're reputation & trust is gained by being truthful along with your actions as a person.

You may have the last word...seeya.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:40 | 4254787 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

The first example, the one with the shopkeeper, where you are only concerned about hiding from third parties, concerns the broader term privacy.

What you described in the second example is pseudonymity. Me and you and everyone else is pseudonymous here on ZH.

It is difficult communicating with you when you use words to mean something different from what I understand and use them to mean, based on a common understanding of how they are used and what their origin is.

Maybe one day there will be some sort of a proof-of-work based system for arriving at a common consensus for the definitions of words... who knows.

Of course you can build both private and pseudonymous reputation, but not anonymous reputation, because someone being anonymous in the narrow sense of the word means you don't have any expectation that you would ever see or hear of them in the future.

Semantics aside, in Bitcoin you can cover your tracks from eavesdroppers (as I mentioned before, e.g. TOR, I2P, public Wi-Fi) and also from people analyzing the blockchain trying find a transaction trail between one already identified address and another. You do the latter with so-called mixing services. So this way the parties to the transaction recorded in the blockchain can be pretty much obscure for everyone (only the amount is known). If desired, the originator can then prove to the payee alone (or to whoever he desires) that he/she is indeed the originator, using encrypted communication. The payee then also has the choice of whether to try to obscure the way they spend that money or not.

Note Bitcoin itself never promised to be anonymous (it's just a popular myth).

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 08:30 | 4247990 lewy14
lewy14's picture

It's not a trading site.

It's a hedging site.

Gold isn't a trade. It is a hedge.

It's the best kind of put option ever invented.

Because we will expire before it does.

"Zero Hedge" exegesis.

You're welcome.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:11 | 4247725 knukles
knukles's picture

Way too much positive energy being shown upon this breaking innovation, downright encouragement by TPTB to be coincidental.
They sure didn't like gold that much.

Hmmmmm

Way too slick ...
I'm not saying they're bad or good.

Just sayin' Uncle Snmuckerpuss is in this up to his elbow already.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:41 | 4247819 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

Bitcoin is the perfect scapegoat for hyperinflation.  When it comes, that's when they go after it and label all holders criminal.  

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:48 | 4247605 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I'm not sure how that would happen.

First, they would have to buy them on open exchanges. Consequently, they will drive the price up massively on themselves, drawing a lot of unwanted and counterproductive attention to what they are doing.

Second, they could only buy up the bitcoins available today...and yet, with millions more available to be mined in the future, they will be fighting the battle for years and years to come.

No, it's very unlikely that they could even purchase a majority of the bitcoins out there.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 12:26 | 4248199 Pseudonymous
Pseudonymous's picture

Go on, do your worst. That would be one scenario when I would want to dump my BTC, and, guess what, convert it into another cryptocurrency or cryptocurrencies that they don't own. I think it is extremely unlikely though, no matter how much cryptocurrency supporters would be happy to profit from it. Central bankers simply have no reason to give away their seigniorage profits to us. We are not their cronies and they would have nothing to get from us in return anyway.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:14 | 4247731 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Your ISP knows who you are, where you've been, what your likes & dislikes are and government regulates & controls the ISP's.

They might know who I am, but as to the rest they have no idea. And no, I'm not some Jo Blogs posting random shit. Between 1996 and 2001 I worked as a network administrator for a mid level ISP so please don't go spouting off that I don't know what I'm on about.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:00 | 4247783 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Yea. You use your neighbors WIFI. Good luck with that. You know they will Layer 7 inspect everything for the blockchain, and shut it down cold. TCP traffic is too easy to filter these days, and they can fragment the chain whenever they are ready. BC is the gateway to 100% digital Fiat, and tax tracing. JP filed their patent for a reason, and they know who everyone is. 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:41 | 4247821 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

LOL.

 

go and read about VPNs.

 

Moron

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:29 | 4248269 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Uh, like the hundreds I've installed and maintained? The Cisco backdoored ones? Maybe TOR, with all the US/NSA backdoors? Or are you going to setup a massive router table with a huge hub and spoke VPN so you can encrypt and protect all of the blockchain traffic with the VPN overhead? Or.... does the NSA already have the ability to break the VPN security algos? How is TOR working? The packet overhead and need for a central setup for the VPN will never allow the blockchain to be protected at that level. How about you get some HAM radios, and some http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_radio setups, and just go all Terminator with the blockchain.  I bet you're dumb enough you use Windows XP with Malwarebytes, and think you're "secure."

 

Tor? http://blogs.computerworld.com/security/22914/silk-road-busted-feds-ross-ulbricht-arrested-bad-news-tor-and-bitcoin-itbwcw

VPN? http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/20/4751364/rsa-tells-developers-to-stop-using-encryption-with-suspected-nsa-backdoor

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 09:45 | 4248045 nmewn
nmewn's picture

If you were in fact a network admin, then you know where all the traffic routes back to, no matter where you are. It goes back to a POP/ATM attached to the network you happen to be on, then on to its destination. And they've already developed malware to install on whatever device you're using.

Now, you may actually think privacy is a trivial mattering thing and "money" can be whatever you want it to be in your geeked out virtual world but I'm beginning to think this is nothing more than a first step to the acceptance of electronic "credits" whereby YOU work, they deposit for your labor, into something THEY can restrict access to anytime they want.

Go ahead, call me a "monetary Luddite"...lol...but advances in science & technology also gave governments nuclear weapons and drones and I have no desire to see my savings (my past labor) vaporized because some inbred technocrat at .gov decides I'm a menace to "its society".

Rightly or wrongly ;-)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:00 | 4248272 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Thank you! Don't forget the power of controlling DNS and man in the middle attacks for this type of stuff. 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:09 | 4249177 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Fuckin A!!!! Lay it down. I love that shit, "monetary Luddite".

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 21:14 | 4249294 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...it gets even better:

http://io9.com/freakishly-realistic-telemarketing-robots-are-denying-t-1481050295

You can't say "Progressive" without progress ;-)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 22:03 | 4249403 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

God damn replicants, time to get Deckard on this. Those recordings were kind of creepy. This is just the beginning, just imagine when they have functional AI in the mix.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:47 | 4247367 TheAntiGov
TheAntiGov's picture

I remember when they were under $1 and I was going to buy $500 worth. Then, the things you could buy with them were very limited, so I didn't get them. Wish I had.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:56 | 4247380 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

You will wish you had bought them.   Then you will cowtow every day in gratitude that you somehow missed the tulip bubble.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:55 | 4247387 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Central Banks Launching Worldwide Coordinated Attack On Bitcoin

Central Banks are getting all together now to celebrate Federal Reserve 100 Year Anniversary. If somebody thought that Bitcoin with other "listed" 42 Crypto-Currencies can challenge the banksters for real, please think twice and take at least the profit! We need more smart people with capital to join the real values when Gold and Silver will be shining again after Special Op "Gold 2.0" to distract 99% from Gold will be over. FED is still silent, but crackdown on Bitcoin is already in place. Now Central Banks of Australia and New Zealand have issued Bitcoin warning. All these actions are coordinated, as you can see now. Pump it Up and Crash it hard - how many will be left to support the brilliant idea? We will note one more time very important coincidence: according to the reports JPMorgan is Net Long Gold now. Crashing Bitcoin will send Gold much higher, maybe JPMorgan knows something the others don't?

European Banking Authority Warns Consumers On Virtual Currencies.

EBA joins with its warning China, South Korea, Norway, France and other financial authorities from different countries. This warning and presented footprint for actions by authorities in order to attack and seize the assets involved is the most explicit among the ones we have seen so far. Unless Bitcoin is not the Special Op created by the FED to celebrate its Anniversary and 100 Year War On Gold, U.S. will follow soon with its actions. You can guess yourself whether it will be difficult to find evidence that some transactions on the particular exchange were involved in criminal activity and can affect Everybody Involved. Major risks according to EBA:

You may lose your money on the exchange platform

Your money may be stolen from your digital wallet

You are not protected when using virtual currencies as a means of payment

The value of your virtual currency can change quickly, and could even drop to zero

Transactions in virtual currency may be misused for criminal activities, including money laundering

And the punchline and footprint for further actions against Crypto-Currencies:

"Transactions in virtual currencies are public, but the owners and recipients of these transactions are not. Transactions are largely untraceable, and provide virtual currency consumers with a high degree of anonymity. It is therefore possible that the virtual currency network will be used for transactions associated with criminal activities, including money laundering. This misuse could affect you, as law enforcement agencies may decide to close exchange platforms and prevent you from accessing or using any funds that the platforms may be holding for you."

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/european-banking-authority-warns.html

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:10 | 4247418 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

The Central Bank of Cyprus also warned .... only several months after their bank deposit haircut. LOL.

 

"Bitcoin may lose value" ... at the same time they are printing fiat money like crazy. ROFL.

Lots of negative psychology. Bitcoin will go up up up.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:32 | 4247459 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Bitcoin, at a minimum, is worth a a gamble for a small amount.  I have but a tiny holding, but it has been fun, and considering its history of going up by orders of magnitude, well...  But, beware of its periodic crashes...

But, BTC are not (yet) a Store of Wealth.  If you do not spend them (and fast), they are a currency at best.

If a critical mass of retail merchants (tired of paying 3% to VISA & MC) or if one of our bearing suppliers (probably China would be first, my guess) starts taking BTC, then the game will have changed.

BTC is well worth watching, for entertainment and perhaps great profit.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:38 | 4247477 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

I heard you saying in 1875: "Telephone is not a tool for communication, since only a few people in the world have a telehone. If a critical mass of people had a telephone, then the game will have changed. Telephone is well worth watching, for entertainment and perhaps great profit."

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:03 | 4247498 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

They did NOT have rolling bearings in 1875 !!

Well, made out of good steel anyway...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:16 | 4247556 kushmere
kushmere's picture

New technology is not fully understood when it is invented. We didn't know what the internet would become, when AOL was mailing us 3 CDs a day!

http://bestbitcoinsites.wordpress.com

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:35 | 4247681 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers"

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 05:51 | 4247927 malikai
malikai's picture

To be fair, the size of computers he was talking about can today be called 'datacenters', and cost appropriately.

At that cost, the market was pretty limited.

His mistake was to ignore what his competition would do.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:26 | 4247668 monad
monad's picture

Oil permiated bearings

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:18 | 4247434 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

who gives a crap about what the BIS thinks.

 

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:36 | 4247684 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I do. The more the BIS hates BitCoin, the more I like it.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:49 | 4247697 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

The more the elites hate bitcoin, the more the people will like it.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:32 | 4247585 JimmyRainbow
JimmyRainbow's picture

its not that this money laundering is done all the time via discrete banks, state channels and who knows what.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:45 | 4247599 hmmmstrange
hmmmstrange's picture

The central banks own most of the gold and silver above ground and below ground. Why would you want to increase in value the one asset that banks control? If you want to do harm to the banks and free yourself from the serfdom imposed on us by the bankers, sell your metals. Crash JPM, sell your silver and gold.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:15 | 4247650 monad
monad's picture

Shite. Cocaine meets all the rules to be money far better than BTC, and its got a built in profit mechanism. Value is easy to test & scarcity is not just easy to prove, its built in. K.I.S.S.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:20 | 4247739 pipes
pipes's picture

Blah,blah,freakin' blah sufiy

 

All FUD - all the time.

 

Propaganda Goebbels would be proud of.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:20 | 4247742 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

In others words, they are scared of it.

...prevent you from accessing or using any funds that the platforms may be holding for you.

Or here is an idea. Take some bloody self responsibilty and look after your own damn wallet, and no not on a system with Windows or Mac as the O/S

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:42 | 4247396 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

That was one expensive pizza.

I wouldn't want to be the one that has to explain to his wife that he blew $10mil equivalent on two pizzas.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:43 | 4247497 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

So better keep your coins.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:06 | 4247415 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

OK.....Now is it really clear to you people the folks at ZH are pushing F#@Kin bitcoin....Every day all day....good gawd, Jesus wouldn't get this much play on here if he made a second coming.  WTF?  See nmewn's post above as his opinion rings true and I echo his sentiment.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:24 | 4247447 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Zerohedge is a pro-Bitcoin website.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:47 | 4247500 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It could be percieved as that...but I tend to think its more informational on their part.

But yes, they could have said BitCoin is patented (relying on the state for its protection, that is what a patent is afterall) and Jed McCaleb made a knot in government fiat for selling Mt.Gox.

That was left out of the graphic.

Jus sayin ;-)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:28 | 4247807 Ayr Rand
Ayr Rand's picture

Moreover, NSA engineered Bitcoin, and mined the first significant quantities. Just as the DOD invented the Internet, so NSA invented Bitcoin. It is up to us to use them wisely.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:25 | 4247747 Curiously_Crazy
Curiously_Crazy's picture

Erm, you do realise they were quite up front publicing the crash down from $1200 odd with ramblings about a collapse. Shitloads of people on here fell for it and were crapping on like "Ha! see, it's the end of btc" even though crashes of higher magnitudes had happened before (and will happen again). Some tried to explain to the naysayers that it will come up again - and surprise surprise it has.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:39 | 4247451 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Although I believe in cryptocurrencies, I don't believe BitCoin is honest money.  Honest money doesn't require validation by other currencies.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:53 | 4247618 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

That doesn't make any sense.

Honest money is whatever two people freely agree upon to use as a medium of exchange.

The ony "validation" required is between the people that choose to use it.

Fiat money, on the other hand, is dishonest money, because the parties are forced to use it by law, whether they like it or not.

You seem very confused about what the word "honest" means.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:19 | 4247646 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

"Honest money is whatever two people freely agree upon to use as a medium of exchange."

What you are describing is an IOU or private money at best, which is not necessarily honest money.  And you'll find most people won't accept your third party IOUs or private money in exchange for their goods or services.  And with good reason.

Now go back and study the meaning of "honest money" before you engage in such accusations.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:38 | 4247686 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I know exactly what honest money is, dipshit. You are an asshat who doesn't know what you are talking about.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:46 | 4247698 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Yes, you've certainly proven something.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:39 | 4247766 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I charge 1oz of gold for an honest week of work.  If gold doubled to $2500, would you still pay me the same amount?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:31 | 4247463 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Nice graphic.

BitCoin is about to make Cypress the next global super power.

Keiser 534

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:15 | 4247558 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Excellent link, thanks!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:36 | 4247470 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Drug residue on Federal Reserve Notes.

 

NSA residue on Bitcoins.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:57 | 4247624 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

If there is NSA "residue" on bitcoins, then your bank and credit card transactions are practically soaked in NSA jizz.

Don't kid yourself. You think the NSA has been waiting around for BitCoin to figure out exactly what the sources and uses of your funds are??

Come on, guys.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:34 | 4247471 q99x2
q99x2's picture

I do not think Bitcoin is out of the woods yet.

Several nations have the ability to create 10 million super clusters to technically defeat it.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:49 | 4247508 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I find it interesting that the most interesting comments are usually at the bottom...this one being no exception. you could get a "bit coin arms race" as "too good to be true" turns into "make it so Number One." ("Jordi we're gonna need everything you've got on this on!" ..."Aye, Aye Captain Nemo!" ) you just never know about these things. I have read from verifiable sources of shortages of GPU (graphics card cpu's) suddenly being depleted as "hash tag wars" breakout in the Bitcoin universe. Barely moving the needle at the local base load provider of power of course. Plis cooling these things has to be a real bear.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:01 | 4247630 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Yep. The governments are late to the party, they don't have a thing to wear, and the liquor stores are empty.

Oh yeah-- they are also incompetent clowns who have to spend 100x what the private sector spends to get the same results.

The idea that they are gonna get in the game now and win is absurd.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:35 | 4247758 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

You are behind the times.  GPU's are only used for Scrypt mining now- not Bitcoin.  A midrange ASIC will net you about about 600 top of the line AMD R9 290x when it comes to Bitcoin mining.  The cards themselves would cost you 36,000, let alone all the other necessary hardware and the ridiculous power costs to run them.

 

Bitcoin is in a different type of arms race now.  It's getting mroe and more centralized as only the rich or early miners can afford the 25K purchases necessary to be competitive for the next 6 months mining.  Multiple 25K purchases.  

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:49 | 4247832 mijev
mijev's picture

But why would they bother when it's all just an NSA plot to monitor me buying a cup of coffee.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:53 | 4247521 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Hardly a 'definitive' history.  The dream has been around twenty plus years.  Bitcoin wasn't the first, and it won't be the last...

http://www.finney.org/~hal/chcash2.html

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:00 | 4247523 cristo
cristo's picture

This person is looking to trade 157 Bitcoins for gold and silver bullion .

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-art-collectibles-trading-Bitcoins-for-silver-and-gold-bullion-W0QQAdIdZ552259883

It's a bad sign for Bitcoin . it looks like some holders are getting out and want to have real money in exchange .

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 23:09 | 4247543 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I'm looking for PMs for BTC and fiat.  I don't think it's a bad sign at all re BTC.  BTC and gold complement each other.

Buy and hold lots of gold if you can.  Buy and hold some (much smaller amounts) of BTC if you dare...

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:33 | 4247680 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

It's called diversification. If you found 1000 ounces of gold buried in your backyard, you'd sell some of that, wouldn't you?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:59 | 4247707 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Um, well, maybe not!  :)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 09:43 | 4248039 cristo
cristo's picture

there's a big difference betwen 1000oz of gold and 157 imaginary Bitcoins . and if i found 157oz's of gold i would not sell anything .

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:05 | 4248278 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

If you have a wife, I GUARANTEE that some of that gold is getting sold. Do I even need to make a list of the things you'll be buying with that money???

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:04 | 4248757 cristo
cristo's picture

the only thing my wife would want is silver or platinum maybe some palladium .

BTW i still haven't seen anyone looking to sell PM's for bitcoins .

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:03 | 4247632 monad
monad's picture

BTsCam is the prepaid VISA card for those who don't know VISA is the FR. And the winning lottery ticket for those who rigged the lottery.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:43 | 4247694 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

For people like myself with only a little money but some curiosity, Bitcoin is a good way to learn about the latest software developments. This seems to be the cutting edge of distributed processing, with a lot of people making a significant investment of time and effort in the system. The software is being updated and modified based on real-world experience, and the alt coins are testing alternative methods of operating virtual currencies.

It's a good project to learn about and get involved in without risking a lot of money. Since I missed the initial ramp-up, I will risk only a small amount of money, no more than someone might spend on slots at the local casino.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:54 | 4247703 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Bitcoin is Tuition on digital currency. If it works, it will be disabled by the usual monopoly like Keyser Soze by The Usual Suspects. The movie is indestructible for a reason; the attache case never glows long.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:03 | 4247715 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

You would spend several hundreds of dollars or more to take a university course on distributed software, assuming you had the prerequisite knowledge to sign up for the course. That's money spent that will never be returned to you. If you experiment with Bitcoin, you can do so for much less investment of money than a single college course.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:51 | 4247738 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Where does the 1999 JPM patent on virtual currencies fit into the definitive history of Bitcoin?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 11:51 | 4248146 Saro
Saro's picture

What are they going to do? Sue Satoshi? Demand a licensing fee from the blockchain? 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 11:53 | 4248149 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

As I found out once, the hard way, a patent is worthless unless you have a whole bunch of money

to defend it.Not a problem for JPM ,so expect civil injuctions across multile jurisdictions stopping bitcoin..

Who will fund the humongous defense costs from legal attacks in civil court?

There can only be one , their one, in the end.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:07 | 4248293 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The problem is, who do they go after?? It's a completely decentralized network. It will be like trying to boil the ocean.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:19 | 4247740 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Bitcoin uses elliptic curves systems for public-key cryptography. NSA can mathematically conceal a public backdoor key for themselves obscured in mathematical cryptography that lets them solve the cryptographic puzzles miners try to solve to get bitcoins. As a cryptographer said, "Prefer conventional discrete-log-based systems over elliptic-curve systems; the latter have constants that the NSA influences when they can."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-su...

Another way the NSA can control bitcoin is thru NSA designed SHA-256, the Bitcoin cryptographic hash function. Bitcoin was written so that SHA-256 can not be replaced in a backwards compatible way.

http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/what-do-the-latest-nsa-leaks-mean-for-b...

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:48 | 4247769 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

From your Guardian article

  Snowdensaid it in an online Q&A soon after he made his first document public: "Encryption works. Properly implemented strong crypto systems are one of the few things that you can rely on."

If you look at the NSA's best attemt, look at the takedown of Freedom Hosting. Freedom Hosting operated as a Tor Hidden Service. The NSA/FBI istalled an exxploit on their server that infected anyone that used any service hosted by Freedom Hosting.

BUT, it only worked on browsers running an older version of Tor on top of Windows.

 

Look, if you want to try to discresit bitcoin, do it truthfully and accurately. Try Gresham's Law. This tinfoil hat shit doesn't fly. 

If, however, you prefer using FRNs to bitcoin, be my guest. Personally, I'd rather use dogshit than FRNs.

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:06 | 4247787 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

Snowden did not say cryptography works when the NSA has a back door.

Notice he also said "propery implemented."

How does your Freedom House example have anything to do with elliptical curve systems and hashing functions?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:45 | 4247823 mijev
mijev's picture

To be a bit more blunt, who gives a flying fuck what the NSA does? So the fuck what if they have a back door?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:47 | 4247826 mijev
mijev's picture

I hear they plant a bug inside every bar of gold too.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:52 | 4247834 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

You don't mind if they mine bitcoins for themselves with a backdoor?  It's the same result as the Fed printing money out of thin air.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:11 | 4248301 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

If they had a back door, then it would be immediately obvious, because all the newly mined bitcoins would be going to the same place. If they were going to do it, wouldn't hey have done it already?

And even if they did...

Then everyone would just go to LTC.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 10:39 | 4250214 One World Mafia
One World Mafia's picture

It would be easy for them to hide the newly mined bitcoins were going to them.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:33 | 4247756 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Who is David Chaum? 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 06:13 | 4247935 lewy14
lewy14's picture

David Chaum is John Galt.

No, OK, serious answer, David Chaum is a cryptographer who patented a bunch of digital cash algorithms back 25 years ago or so. Used a crypto technique called "blinding". Damn, it's been a few years - but what I gave you is enough to google on if you like.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:48 | 4247777 Manipuflation
Manipuflation's picture

Damn it, someone beat me to publishing the concept.  I was considering how to launch my own crypto currency when I came across this.  My idea still has added elements compared to this option but I am a day late.  I have an exchange concept brewing in my head and this guy does not, but still I have to give credit.

  http://www.digitaltrends.com/social-media/wow-dogecoin-bitcoin/

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 03:32 | 4247858 mijev
mijev's picture

Wow so many negative comments. And yet you fags are still scared that the NSA has a back door (sic) into bitcoin? Seriously? The NSA is an irrelevant government department in an increasingly irrelevant country. Stop acting like the gay kid at school who gets bullied into giving BJs all the time to the school bully and grow a pair.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!