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Obamacare's Next Hurdle: Getting People To Pay

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Healthcare.gov may or may not be fixed, depending on who one listens to (and if one reads the WSJ's, "Errors Continue to Plague Government Health Site" this morning, there is much more fixing left despite the administration's most sincere promises), but a greater issue is already looming: payment. "We have a bigger number of applicants than people who have paid," Aetna Chief Financial Officer Shawn Guertin said in an interview today in New York. "That’s a situation that I am a little bit worried about, that people will think they have completed the process but haven’t paid the premium yet." Whether Americans didn't realize there would be an actual payment involved in America's socialized healthcare system, or simply there is too much confusion over how the process is run, is irrelevant - the bottom line is that for whatever reason people are simply not paying their premiums.

As Bloomberg reports, the disjointed process of having customers shop through the government-run marketplace and then pay insurers separately has created a risk that people who have chosen a plan won’t actually be covered Jan. 1. And if people don’t pay by Dec. 31, insurers may end up stuck with a disproportionate number of sicker and costlier customers.

“You have to remember that many times we are dealing with low-income people,” Robert Laszewski, an Alexandria, Virginia-based consultant to carriers, said in a telephone interview last week. “They signed up and they certainly want the insurance, but do they have the money or have they changed their mind by Dec. 31? Nobody’s done this before.

And while the government has been touting the surge in sign up numbers, with the CMMS announcing yesterday that some 365,000 people have signed up for a private plan through November, what the government has not said is how many of these people have already paid their premium. Judging by the Aetna CFO remarks there is a major, gaping discrepancy between the two. And even if people do expect to get completely free healthcare, that is not what Obamacare is about, at least not yet. So suddenly Obama may have a situation where he has millions signed up for the ACA, and only a fraction has actually paid. Recall that Obama has a goal of 7 million sign ups by the March 31 end of open enrollment.

In the meantime, while it remains to be seen if the new plans will be feasible, the old healthcare plans have already been largely scrapped.

Aetna, based in Hartford, Connecticut, also said it faces too many administrative hurdles to reinstate policies that it’s terminating next year because they don’t meet the new standards set by the health law. Hundreds of thousands of people around the country have gotten cancellation notices from insurers this year, prompting a political firestorm for President Barack Obama.

 

Obama responded last month by giving insurers and state regulators the option of extending the policies by an extra year. Aetna decided it would be too difficult to do in time for Jan. 1, Guertin said. Some customers were able to renew their policies early before the termination notices arrived. Guertin declined to say how many.

 

“It gets them a plan frankly that we’re ready to service,” he said. “It would just be too administratively burdensome to try to get everything ready to restore all the old plans.”

Well, nobody said central planning works everywhere. The good news that for now, at least, the fourth - monetary - branch of government is offsetting any and all other disappointments created by the legislative and executive. Because no matter how vast the shock, or how acute the disappointment, one can always point to an S&P that is just shy of all time highs. And all is well if the "markets" say it is...

 


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Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Why pay when that shitbag oblowhard admin is effectively ordering insurance companies to provide insurance for those who dont pay?

And isnt ordering services to be provided for zero compensation called "slavery?" 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:22 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

Waaaaaa'd? It's Not Free???
Gimme My Money Back...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Obama said all I had to do was help him, and he would help me.  I'll never have to worry about paying for (mortgage, car, healthcare) again.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:33 | Link to Comment What you talkin...
What you talkin about Willis's picture

Obama care. the cluesterfuck that keeps on fucking, and this is just the peak of the tip of the iceburg.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:38 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I am becoming convinced that anarcho-capitalism is actually a more honest and less violent way to live.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:54 | Link to Comment jefferson32
jefferson32's picture

could someone draw a cartoon with .gov guy proudly presenting to peers Obamacare in 1 chart:

 

you can't afford healthcare:

-> we force you to buy healthcare

you already have healthcare:

-> we force you to change healthcare

 

government guy: problem solved!

other .govs: brilliant! remarkable! astounding!

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:02 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

<-- Obamacare is utter fail, Boy King is public hang

<-- Obamacare is utter fail, Boy King is declare dictatorship

This is politic between stone and hard placement.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:20 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

  "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a healthcare plan today."

I'll be 'fine' with my healthcare opt-out, good luck collecting you .Gov pricks...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:58 | Link to Comment mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

So we're asking people who currently don't pay for their medical care to pay for their medical care, and telling them how great a deal that is for them, as compared to walking into the ER and tossing the bill in the trash on the way out.

What could go wrong?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:05 | Link to Comment NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

The new Obamataxcare scam's official theme song. You picked a fine time to leave me Blue Shield...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment wintermute
wintermute's picture

Isn't Obamacare free? 

Taxes have gone up to pay for it, so it must be free for its users. Surely.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:16 | Link to Comment Rick Blaine
Rick Blaine's picture
“If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free.”

- P.J. O'Rourke

Maybe P.J. was right afterall...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Keyser
Keyser's picture

I feel for the people that the ACA is affecting, but I am also enjoying it coming unraveled and watching Obama twist in the wind. 

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 04:32 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is also enjoy dog and puppy show, but now is trigger high cholesterol and diabetes because consumption of popcorn and soda. Please already, Obamacare, crash and burn. Is like watch bloody detergent operetta cliff-hanging. Can already economy of USSA kick barrel!?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 05:29 | Link to Comment Serenity Now
Serenity Now's picture

Dog and puppy show.  Haha.  

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 08:34 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

So when do we get the free heroin again?

 

Only heroin can dull the pain that being raped by Obamacare has given me.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

heh.. heh  where the rubber meets the road..

..and now the timing is right..

the next election will see the plebes doing a number on vain incumbents.

...(unless the whole system is rigged beyond conventional repair)


oh.. and maybe a strong 7.5/375 hydrocodone will dull that horrid anal pain.. but I refuse to accept that imposition and I am no doctor so seek help from a government certified professional.  

there was an interesting Jack Nicholson awards ceremony comment youtube re. Scotch and Vicoden but it looks like it got scrubbed.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:23 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"as compared to walking into the ER and tossing the bill in the trash on the way out."

What makes you think they're going to stop doing that?  "I'm Enrolled!  Didn't pay for it, but I'm enrolled.  Send the bill to Obama.  See ya later, suckers."

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:46 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Hi Gang.

Wonder where bailouts part two would occur?

Wonder no more; they will bail out the health insurers.

No line between government/corporations, none; politics is the distraction.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

In the private sector, "Enrollment" would be defined as a policy having been paid for and issued. Not in the Orwellian world of .Gov, of course.

The other item NOT being mentioned in the MSM is that the number of people being directed into Medicaid is about THREE times, the numbers who have "Enrolled" into a private plan (But not yet necessarily paid. Expect about 70% not to pay based on online commerce data). Medicaid re-imbursements to and restrictions on physicians are resulting in more physicians refusing to take Medicaid patients. So expect all of these patients to use the ER, the most expensive outcome. This will push up provider costs which in turn will push up premiums which in turn will make it less likely that people will "Enroll", especially young people. This "Advrse selection (Where only the old, sick and with pre-existing conditions, will "Enroll" will also push up insurer costs, which will further push up premiums, which means that even fewer people will "Enroll", especially the young. Rinse, repeat all of the above.

This is simply NOT workable and Obamacre will implode, leaving even more people than before with health cover. The problem with that is that, in minds of the socialist "Progressives" that will be confirmation that a "Single payer" system should have been used and is, in fact, the only solution. This would put 65% of US GDP under the control of .Gov, higher than socialist France, would delight the "Progressives". And with the FSA now controlling the vote, private sector solutions where people have to accept responsibility and actually pay for healthcare, that will be difficult to prevent.

We are still in Round 1 and this thing still has a long way to go.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Just wait...Doctors will be told they have to take Medicare paitents if they want to keep their license to practice.

The Republicrats won't be able to turn back the preexisting conditions and coverage for all any more than S.S. or immigration.

The kleptoligarchy marches forward; left leg/right leg for the good of the corporate/.gov machine, dragging the body public along.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

Yes, I'm sure they will try. Remeber that Licenses, however, are under the control of the States, not the Feds. That might be another interesting test of whether there is still a document previously known as The Constitution?.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:03 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Doctors way way back around the Federal Reserve era, went in bed with their government cartel license to pratice. Kind of like going partners with The Mob. Eventually they come for you...They're rich, according to The One, very white, often Jewish and few.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:50 | Link to Comment wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

The IRS will garnish your wages, your bank account, and your first-born child.

They're gonna get their "pound of flesh."

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:00 | Link to Comment Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

What wages? Bank account? These are laid-off workers and the gov't already took their kids years ago.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:05 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Their kids could be sent back!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:28 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

The government can only take your stuff if you keep it in a place where they can rob you of it at will. Anything in the bank is their's for the taking. All your paper bases are belong to them. You can pay on your mortgage for 30 years and pay it off, but you still don't own a home - you own paper. They already own your first-born child and any other children you may have. They are simply waiting until the child becomes productive before they assume title. You'd be a fool to stay in a job where they are garnishing your wage - better to join the FSA and be a burden - the faster to take this sucker down, because no matter what you do, when the government and the banks get desperate enough they'll come for what you think is your property. Nothing you think you own is actually yours, but is an asset of the state (up to and including your person). Just ask the Kuluks - oh wait, everything they owned was confiscated and they were wiped out.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 02:12 | Link to Comment Nehweh Gahnin
Nehweh Gahnin's picture

I will be happy to parcel out my possessions to the kleptocrats ... one piece of lead at a time.

DIS-O-BEY

I ain't paying .gov shit.  In fact, it's about time to start getting some of it back.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 04:39 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I practice civil disobedience every day.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:21 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

"The IRS will garnish your wages, your bank account, and your first-born child.

They're gonna get their "pound of flesh."

                                     .  . .sarcasm?
Obstruction of justice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:33 | Link to Comment Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Obama and Obamacare is collapsing under it's own weight of stupidity and disconnection from reality.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:52 | Link to Comment Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Yea, until they lock in the IRS, your refund, and wage garnishment to pay for your forced plan. It's comming soon....

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:20 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Which leads back to...the need to oppose the so-called cashless society at every turn...no matter what they choose to call it. Credit, Bits, debit...whatever.

Money needs to circulate freely among the people, unencumbered by anything or society will be enslaved.

Yes, for now, that includes Benny-Yellen Bucks.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:05 | Link to Comment BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

And stop filing tax returns electronically!  Mail in the paper forms and force the IRS to keywhack the entries.....

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:31 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

This is extremely important and can't be emphasized enough. This iincludes all those 1099s that they require you to issue too. Why do their work for them, as it contributes to the ever-tightening grasp they hold over us? Bury them in paperwork. Spread the word.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Great idea, but it doen't help. I have sources, and the worst thing about paper file is that they just start making "mistakes" to come audit you with. Just think about an IRS employee typing shit in all day, and just adding a number here or there. E-file, and hide your gold well.  

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Still have the paper record and paper copies on file.

Unlike electronic voting.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:00 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

"This is politic between stone and hard placement."

Way too funny.

Darn Boris, is poetical how you so politely speak your politics well. Good works man!

Big huge Merry Blessings, and a Happier Christmas to ya!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:20 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

If you think the company store is practically any different, then I have a bridge to sell you...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Pay? The FSA gonna love this....if you don't want to pay for your healthcare then you don't have to pay for your healthcare.....

 

What country have we turned into

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:12 | Link to Comment MedTechEntrepreneur
Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:45 | Link to Comment reTARD
Sun, 12/15/2013 - 11:27 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Good.  Many sheep will be frightened by Larkin Rose but this girl can get through to them.

this is good also... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20RoAfflGCM

Seems like just yesterday the statists thought they were sailing into Fantasy Island on the frikkin' Love Boat.  Now it's morphing into The Titanic before their eyes.  Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of elitest jerks.  O-bongwater FOR THE WIN :-)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:38 | Link to Comment reTARD
reTARD's picture

Anarchy bitchez!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:55 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

"Obama care. the cluesterfuck that keeps on fucking, and this is just the peak of the tip of the iceburg."

Yo, What?

Naw, this is just another distraction from the overall goal of killing off the species.

The ELE in fukushima is the CF that keeps on fracking...the never ending peak...is still coming.

Between celestial events and flyby/impacts, and the radioactive killing death machine being used by rottentick banksters that own everything, not much will matter in the potential possible coming future of the shake...rattle...and roll.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC-7JYAtuEY

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:32 | Link to Comment NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Because I am self employed my individual policy was ended.  I have had to spend countless hours on that stupid fucking website.  Now I have been offered a plan and am trying to pay for it and no one will tell me how.  I was on the phone with Blue Cross yesterday and said please just take my credit card number and issue the fucking policy, time is short.  No, can't do that.  So at least in my case I cant wait to pay but no one will send me a fucking bill.

Said this many times.  This thing is designed to fail.  Single payer on the way, count on it.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

The Democrats have your back.  They won't force anyone to get an ID for voting because that is an undue burden for people.  So feel good, you won't need to pay $5 every 5 years or so for an ID to vote.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:50 | Link to Comment kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Voting: Hoping you matter by pretending to have a say.

"Vote Guillotine! Putting all their heads together for a solution."

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Don't worry, they will just be directly debiting your paycheck / bank accounts / brokerage accounts / 401k / IRA when they figure out how much money they want you to pay to cover all the leeches.  

 

How much will they take?  My guess is all of it, whether you are already covered by private healthcare or not.  

 

 

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:21 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Presuming that the self employed insurance premium deduction is still viable in 2014, then I'd say why not just go through blue cross directly?  My wife is self employed and we signed her up yesterday through their website (outside of the exchange) and it took about 5 minutes...  further, you'll get a receipt for the total and you'll have to input your method of payment...  so, no guesswork as to that end of it.

Do you even qualify for credits for your premium?  If not, then just forego the exchange and hit up the insurers directly...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:44 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

If you are entitled to a subsidy you can only get it through the exchange.  He may be entitled to a subsidy depending on his income.  If that's the case he has to go through the exchange.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:26 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

exactly, I posted on this about a week ago. I know many many young solo attorneys who think they qualify (as the economy sucks) and I am sure there are numerous contractors, small shop owners, home busines etc who qualify but no one knows a goddamn thing.

 

Here in Washington (and I bet other states) the whole online thing is fucked up the same way and has stonewalled our insurance brokers. The written app is correct for net icnome, the online is not. My wife and I emailed the author of this article yesterday directly and he got back to us.   

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:27 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

Same place as you, Nuts-  while I could easily afford to pay whatever number Obama comes up with for my new policy,  I haven't yet dealt with anyone who has a clue about what I'm signing up for-

That's fine, I'll just take my premium cash and sit on the sidelines-  hey, want to penalize me for it?  Go right ahead-  I don't pay for something I can't understand to those who don't understand.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:01 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

sounds like a good time to remain bullish on deficit reduction.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:46 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

I just checked out ehealthinsurance.com where they will quote prices.  I did the 2014 and you can get all the insurance companies but it is bronze, silver and gold and the prices are a lot higher.  This is total shit.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

I'm SE and I knew my catastrophic plan was doomed years ago, so I torched it.  I use only cash to pay for tests and doctor visits and will only use facilities that accept pre-paid, price-fixed procedures going forward(like Surgery Center of Oklahoma).  From reading postings, I gather that even local hospitals are agreeing to fixed price costs for procedures rather than losing the business to out-of-state facilities.  If you go into a hospital with an insurance plan, everything is up for negotiation.  If you have to go to the ER with no insurance, lose your wallet, say 'No habla Englais' and ride the wave to non-indebtedness.  For this reason I am learning Spanish(Mexican).  There's always more than one way to beat the system...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:32 | Link to Comment infinity8
infinity8's picture

Love it. I've got a local practice that really works with people without insurance (like me). If you pay in full on the day of service they give a big discount. Smart. Hope it spreads.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:39 | Link to Comment infinity8
infinity8's picture

And, you don't really want to be a "frijolero".

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:40 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Because I am self employed my individual policy was ended. I have had to spend countless hours on that stupid fucking website. Now I have been offered a plan and am trying to pay for it and no one will tell me how. "

Why are you bothering? After Jan 1, Healthcare is merely a tax. If your medical bills exceed the cost of the deductable and the sum of your premiums, the Insurance company just raises your premiums to match your medical bills. There is nothing in ASA that prevents insurance companies from jacking up your premiums to match or exceed your medical expenses.

I am sure you seen all the articles about people with pre-existing conditions see their premiums increase to match there medical costs. basically you're paying a boat load for nothing. why bother throwing good money down a rat hole. Save your money for your medical expendures.

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 06:00 | Link to Comment zhandax
zhandax's picture

"If your medical bills exceed the cost of the deductible and the sum of your premiums, the Insurance company just raises your premiums to match your medical bills."

Oh, that it were that simple.  Insurance is based on the art of spreading risk over large numbers.  More succinctly, if everyone's medical bills exceed the cost of the deductible and the sum of premiums, the insurance company raises everyone's premiums to match their bills.  If you require little medical attention, you get penalized for the poorer health of your fellow policyholders.  When someone SE bought private insurance before, he became a member of the group of SE covered by that insurance company (actually the proper term is risk pool, but group will be understood by more peeps).  That is what is so insidious about ACA drawing all the pre-existing conditions who were the first to sign up.  That new group will be all ACA members.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:28 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Oh, that it were that simple. Insurance is based on the art of spreading risk over large numbers."

It is that simple. Its not insurance anymore, its a tax! Look at all of the people with pre-exisitng conditions see there premiums increase to match there medical costs.

"That is what is so insidious about ACA drawing all the pre-existing conditions who were the first to sign up."

 Only a tiny few that did sign up did pay the premiums to enroll. I doubt anyone who has a pre-exisitng condition that didn't have coverage was able to afford the premiums. Its just a giant farse and offers zero protection. I've seen articles about single mothers working at a part-time minimum wage get declined the subsidy. Even if a person does get the premium subsidy they still have to come up with the $6K deductable every year. If they qualify for the subsidy they certainly can't afford the deductable anyway. Everyone gets screwed except perhaps those exempt from ACA and the Medical Insurance companies.

 

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:26 | Link to Comment G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

"Well, nobody said central planning works everywhere."

Give me one single time where central planning has worked without some form of sick ars abuse.

They signed up and they certainly want the insurance, but do they have the money or have they changed their mind by Dec. 31? Nobody’s done this before.

Statist minds create policy but have a part of the brain missing when it comes to realizing the horrorible residual effects of that policy. They're retarded that way!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:46 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

YOU FIRST HAVE TO PAY FOR IT TO KNOW WHAT'S INSIDE OF IT!!!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

On getting people tp pay:

 

1)  Put gun to temple of ObamaCare 'freeloader' and extend other hand

2)  Receive wallet in free hand

3)  Tell customer "You've made a wise decision," and leave

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment Drifter
Drifter's picture

But website has no way to pay for it.   That part hasn't even been written yet.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:14 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

If you like your payment.....you can keep your payment.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:44 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"If you like your payment.....you can keep your payment."

 if you like your payment, you can double your payment"

If you like your payment, your going to miss it when we double or triple it!

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:45 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is a huge tax on the middle class and a take over of healthcare by SEIU, La Raza, ACORN and other community organizer types.

If you ran healthcare on einsurance.com in early 2013 versus now for 2014 with bronze, silver and gold.   I am not pimping that web site but they list prices quickly and easily.   They have the same companies like Aetna, Utd Health, Humana, Coventry, etc.   The coverage in 2014 is a lot less and almost 40 to 60% more for LESS! 

 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 09:46 | Link to Comment Canoe Driver
Canoe Driver's picture

Even worse, it's not insurance at all. Insurance is a rated assumption of a quantifiable risk. Obamacare, on the other hand, seeks to give coverage to millions for whom illness and/or injury are not a risk, but rather a certainty --i.e., those with pre-existing conditions. The only way to cover such persons is to simply redistribute the wealth of others to pay for their care.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:13 | Link to Comment dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

FSA motto = "PAY FOR NOTHING, YES WE CAN!"

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:47 | Link to Comment mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

Ban all leftists from owning guns, knives, scissors, screwdrivers, leftist cops and millitary included, as to be on the left one has to have a serious mental disorder in order to want to enslave all of humanity, and with such smugness nonetheless.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:29 | Link to Comment formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

Some digging was necessary but turns out that's essentially correct. It wasn't easy to find out the truth. Wonder why?

Sort of like stories on 'knockout game' leave out one important thread running through them all. MSM sucks.

You link doesn't work by the way.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:52 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Some digging was necessary but turns out that's essentially correct. It wasn't easy to find out the truth. Wonder why?"

The Denver Post edited out "socialist". Here's how it reads now:

"Thomas Conrad, who had an economics class with Pierson, described him as very opinionated."


http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_24721367/arapahoe-high-gunman-held-strong-political-beliefs-classmates

All the news thats fit to print or fits their propaganda point of view...or sumpin ;-)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:49 | Link to Comment formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

Credibility is all that's at stake, right? It's not like anybody wants to know the truth or anything.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:22 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Truth is a hard thing to swallow for many people ;-)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment mofreedom
mofreedom's picture

some truths cannot be made evident, lest it be known and destroy the leftist agenda.

truth!!!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 22:13 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

And lets not forget the dissembling & obfuscation that accompanies the attempt to block truth. These are also clear indicators of a lie.

Truth can stand on its own...it doesn't need "but ifs, what ifs, but they's, clarifications or modification"...it just is.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:54 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

The MSM is just like clockwork, very reliable...lol.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

The story includes a passage saying he had an issue with "a teacher who he believed had wronged him." Socialist that he was, perhaps the shooter was upset that the teacher didn't redistribute some other students' higher grades to his own worthless butt.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:26 | Link to Comment Northern Lights
Northern Lights's picture

LOL

He was upset that they failed to apply the bell curve.  A socialist masterpiece.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

The story includes a passage saying he had an issue with "a teacher who he believed had wronged him." Socialist that he was, perhaps the shooter was upset that the teacher didn't redistribute some other students' higher grades to his own worthless butt.

 

I am sure whatever SSRI coctail the shooter was on made it seem like a good idea at the time.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 04:59 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

He was after the librarian - who was the leader of the speech / debate team.  The shooter had recently been kicked off of the speech team, and the librarian had disciplined him in some way.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:13 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Waiting on the drug overdose report.

http://www.ssristories.com/index.php

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:14 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

The website matches Obamacare.Garbage in, garbage out.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:45 | Link to Comment Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

I will not comply, I will not obey.

You can take you're Obamacare and shove it.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:56 | Link to Comment Neo
Neo's picture

I'll second that!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:46 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

I am opting out. No point since Health insurance is no longer insurance but mearly a tax. When your medical costs exceed the deductible and the sum of your premiums, they will just increase your premiums to match your medical costs. Paying for nothing is just plain dumb!

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:16 | Link to Comment overexposed
overexposed's picture

Government equals failure, 100% of the time.  What a shame that we have to be stuck with these jokers year after year.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:32 | Link to Comment SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Anarcho-capitalism starting to look pretty good.  At least then if some clown tries to rob me to make his life more comfortable, I'll be able to shoot back and not have to worry about getting put in a cage.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

 

despite the administration's most sincere promises

Isn't that an oxymoron?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:12 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

"Sincere promises" is a phrase synonymous with "lies" where most politicians are concerned.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:20 | Link to Comment Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

The FSA will be reeling back with shock, in stunned amazment, that anything O came up with actually involved payment.

Poor bastards, their hope got changed.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I already have Medicare and will pay more to get less in 2014. Is there any chance I can get an Obamacare subsidy to meke up for the difference? 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 05:01 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

No.  That is the correct answer, regardless of whether your question was serious or not.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:25 | Link to Comment csmith
csmith's picture

"So suddenly Obama may have a situation where he has millions signed up for the ACA, and only a fraction has actually paid."

 

How predictable was this? Has nothing to do with a bad website either. As with Medicare, Medicaid and EVERY OTHER entitlement in U.S. history, the cost will be EXPONENTIALLY LARGER than anyone estimated. Looks like we're setting up to read the following headline in the next month or so: 

"Costs of Obamacare Blowing Through Estimates as Premium Subsidies Soar"

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment What you talkin...
What you talkin about Willis's picture

Just like how the Iraqi oil revenues where going to pay for operation freedom fries.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:26 | Link to Comment whoopsing
whoopsing's picture

Sorry I could'nt pay, I was doing kegstands. Can you fix my broken back now ?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:53 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

NO PROB! AND DO YOU NEED ANOTHER KEG?!?

unless you have a job... than we can't help ya...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Welcome to Healthcare.gov  Abort, Retry, Fail?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:51 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

STOP THE JOKES OR WE'LL 404 YOU!!!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:59 | Link to Comment sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Political jokes are an American tradition.  We get to elect one every four years.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:49 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Welcome to Healthcare.gov Abort, Retry, Fail?"

Well this does finally answer the question "Who is General Failure and why is reading all my data?". Clearly its Obama with a little help from the NSA.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:29 | Link to Comment topspinslicer
topspinslicer's picture

But I wants me the free version. Besides the 71% IMF tax will pay for everything. Everything.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:30 | Link to Comment Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

Not surprising since the same people who signed up are the same people who ride public transportation.  

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:30 | Link to Comment beaker
beaker's picture

Yes, and right at Christmas time.  This should help the retail sales...

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:33 | Link to Comment Yancey Ward
Yancey Ward's picture

I just signed up on Obamacare this morning.  It took me 2.6 seconds and it told me I not only don't have to pay, but it will pay me $700/month just to post comments supporting Obamacare.  I also get free hookers.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

If you liked your VD, you can spread it. Free birth control for all.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Sounds like you may have applied for a secret service position and were hired instead of OCare.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:17 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Do they supply the blow, or is that extra?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:41 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Don't know how this came up in a search but there it is(link)Obamacare: Get Insurance and Make Money - A Step by Step Guide (The Win-Win Series)  It was actually free a few days ago...this crap is gettin way to weird for me...(Disclaimer; No, I haven't read it.)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:36 | Link to Comment formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

extract from the reviews for Obamacare: Get Insurance and Make Money - A Step by Step Guide (The Win-Win Series):

By the way, I was shocked to learn in this book, the health industry is looting America and how my own wages are used to fund my healthcare benefits. It's my own money and I thought all along I was getting free health insurance from my employer-I feel so cheated!! I would rather get paid a higher salary then have my lame group health plan.   - Cathy C.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:54 | Link to Comment AGuy
AGuy's picture

"just signed up on Obamacare this morning. It took me 2.6 seconds and it told me I not only don't have to pay, but it will pay me $700/month just"

Odd! Today I recieved an e-mail from a Kenyan King promising me free healthcare, all I need to do is provide him with all my financial information including bank account numbers, SSN etc. Once I send this information to him, hes promissing all sorts of free stuff? Do you guys think  this deal is for real?

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:39 | Link to Comment wackydog
wackydog's picture

You mean Obama ain't pickin' up the bill? Well, how fair is THAT? He said we HAD to sign up... so natch, he's payin' right?

I wonder if the website has a "cancel" button after you've selected a plan? Or if - once in the system - always in the system?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:40 | Link to Comment divedivedive
divedivedive's picture

Sorry - sincere question - what is the procedure ? You visit this website, enter your personal info, select a plan (put it in your cart) ... and then you are expected to "checkout now" ? Is there an option - "Please bill me later" or "Send me an invoice" ? Does the selected insurance company bill the customer ? Do you only truely "commit" to the purchase when you pay ? Is there a Paypal option ?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:39 | Link to Comment MrButtoMcFarty
MrButtoMcFarty's picture

6 Months - No Pmts if you get our VISA!!

:)

 

This shit is solid gold comedy.

Somewhere Hunter S Thompson is smoking a big fattie and cackling his ass off!!

 

Off to Puerto Rico for 3 weeks of 25th Anniversary Rum & Sun.

Where do the years go??

My SINCERE Best Wishes to All of You and Yours!

Happy New Year's Bitchez!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:07 | Link to Comment divedivedive
divedivedive's picture

Congrats - 30+ here.

Permanent Tequila and Sun :-)

Feliz Navidad.

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 20:28 | Link to Comment divedivedive
divedivedive's picture

All  kidding aside - How does it work ?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 05:20 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

The only reason to bother with the ACA website in your state is if you think you qualify for a premium tax credit.  If you don't qualify for the credit, you should be going directly to the insurance company - or though an insurance broker if you don' know what company you want.

Regarding the state website - you enter in all the data they ask for, including financial data.  The website calculates whether you qualify for a premium tax credit.  If your income minus expenses is too low, the only health insurance plan the website will offer you is Medicaid (seriously).

You will be offered the option of paying your first month's premium through the website or getting billed.  This information is then forwarded to the insurance company you selected.  If you asked to be billed, it will be the insurance company you selected that will bill you.

The website only acts as a middle-man - bringing you and the insurance company you chose together.  Once you two shake hands electronically, all other business is conducted directly between you and the insurance company you chose.

No policy will go into effect until the first payment is received by the chosen insurance company.

If you qualify for a premium tax credit, and make your first premium payment, you immediately qualify for the 90-day grace period.  You can go 90 days without paying your premium and the insurance company cannot cancel your policy.  They can cancel you policy for non-payment of premium if you haven't brought your account current by Day 91 after the first missed premium payment.

If you don't pay your premium, after you have made at least one payment, the insurance company must cover all medical expenses in the first 30 days after missing your payment.  They are not required to cover any of your medical expenses on Day 31 - Day 90 of the grace period.  If you have seen your doctor during this time, and you don't bring your premium current, he just saw you for free.

When your plan is cancelled, you can go to another insurance company on the exchange and start all over again.

http://www.cbpp.org/files/QA-on-Premium-Credits.pdf

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment goldenbuddha454
goldenbuddha454's picture

But if they pay, he won't get his coveted single payer system because the insurance companies will still remain solvent.  That's not what he wants.  He wants insolvent insurance companies.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 21:42 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

He wants insolvent America.

fixed it for ya

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:18 | Link to Comment RichardP
RichardP's picture

He wants insolvent insurance companies.

Given the history of how the ACA was put together, what was left out by demand of the insurance industry, and the fact that at least the Senate version was written mainly by an insurance company executive, it is difficult to find proof that your comment is correct.

Which is an issue completely separate from whether the ultimate goal is a single-payer system.  I think it has been acknowledged a number of times that this is the ultimate goal.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:44 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

sorry obummercare, but the fed and the other bankers have stolen enough of our labor as it is, there is nothing left to steal

SUCK IT

~~~

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

IT'S OKAY! WE ONLY NEED YOUR KID TO SIGN FOR IT!
THE YOUNGER THE BETTER!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:48 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

MY GOLDFISH BUBBLES NEEDS A CATSCAN....
HE'S UNEMPLOYED SO IT'S FREE RIGHT?!?!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

When ACA enrollment continues to falter. The sexiest point man to advertise ACA fails. What does one do too prop up social conformance?

 

Electric Six - Gay bar (Uncensored)- Don’t forget the ending of video. Priceless.

But they are already aware of how you use the high heath care risk setters to fund a new Ponzi scheme. In case you forgot.

Spiritual Fascism

 

Those poor metrosexual society closet guests never knew their real significance in life.. winks!

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 16:58 | Link to Comment viator
viator's picture

You don't have to pay for an Obamaphone, why should you have to pay for Obamacare?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:06 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I has ta pay? Screw that. If it ain't free I don'ts wants it.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:27 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (1/9) Movie CLIP - My Precious (2003) HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhF060VmS1g (2:34)

Sneaky Little Hobbitses - The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers (5/9) Movie CLIP (2002) HD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_aziIIp8U8 (2:43)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:06 | Link to Comment Obamananke
Obamananke's picture

Obama is now sitting back admiring his handy work. Thinking the failure is going better than even he could imagine.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 19:28 | Link to Comment Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

In all my travels up & down and to & fro in this fair city, cafe to cabaret, I have not heard a single conversation concerning the ACA or "signing up".

I get the feeling everyone is just ignoring the monstrosity that is the Affordable Care Act

Somehow or other the 7 million will be signed up when Messiah said they would be.  They will find a way to redefine 'signed up' and the number will be reached.

I also speculate the Administration will think long & hard before taking any more Draconian steps to push this unnatural act on the publick and esp. to collect.  

Maybe an extension to a due date past the 2014 election.

The thing is a total, abject failure and will limp along and get pushed out until it is gone a-la Real I.D. ... jmvho.

I am personally enjoying every minute of this train wreck from the sidelines.  I will never sign up and push to shove I am going off the radar even moar.  I will electronically cease to exist to my maximum ability.

Or maybe I'm not that nimble.  Well, maybe I'm sending in my registration on hard copy ... security paper (can't be copied, can't be scanned) 'cause my computer ain't fast enough and I cannot afford to fix it.

Special Delivery and someone has to sign for it.  Filled out wearing cotton gloves.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:31 | Link to Comment bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZo1sXsC-68

This is not actually happening is it?  (Several minutes of one person's observations - done well).

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

The administration will casually announce that because of the "snags" the government is gonna foot the bill for everbody who signed up wether they paid or not.

Kicking the Obamacare can down the road further.

At taxpayer expense.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Abraham Snake
Abraham Snake's picture

Our family plan premiums have almost tripled to 22% of our gross income for 2014. We didn't need subsidies in 2013, but at 22% of income, we need subsidies for 2014. We don't qualify for subsidies for 2014. The calculation only looks at single plans which must not exceed 9.5% of income. Family plans may require 40%, 50%, or even 100% of income for premiums without qualifying for subsidies. We can't afford to pay 22% so we are being forced out of the health insurance market. We may apply, we may pay the first premium, but somewhere down the road, we will not have the money to pay a premium. Or we may only apply for some of our family members. We haven't decided yet.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:01 | Link to Comment wonderatitall
wonderatitall's picture

too bad..i aint a payin.....and kim kardassian is not a hobbit..blame bucsh

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 00:29 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Just go to the ER and give a fake name. Don't even speak. Just act like you speak Russian and tell them where it hurts by gesture. Wife is former ER nurse. They won't check. Just make sure they don't get your real name.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 01:05 | Link to Comment kareninca
kareninca's picture

A.Snake, do you have a link or a site that says that (re single plans not exceeding 9.5 percent of income, but family plans being able to require 40%+ of income w/o qualifying for subsidies)??  It's not that I don't believe you; it is just that it is so terrible that I want more info sooner rather than later.  I will look for sites/cites myself, too.

p.s.  I wouldn't be surprised if the only way to find that out readily, is to try to sign on/up.  A lot of info is only coming out that way.  Horrible.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 10:22 | Link to Comment Abraham Snake
Abraham Snake's picture

At first, for the last few years, most of the info pages that return from a Google search would indicate premiums were required to be capped at 9.5% of income. It doesn't sound so bad.

However, recently dated pages indicate the calculation is based on premiums for individual plan insurance! Whole family income is required in ratio to individual plan prices. We have also noticed that individual plans offered through employers are -mysteriously- quite cheap [1/6 price of family plans]. It looks like the system is being gamed.

A 9% of-income individual plan passes muster, is approved by AHCA. The family possibly gets stuck with a 50% of-income family plan premium. Then the deductible is high, perhaps another 20% of family income. Have you heard of balance billing? Balance billing could easily cost another 30% of income.

I've looked at health plans offered from our employers. I've looked at plans offered on for-profit-websites like ehealthinsurance. I've looked at plans on healthcare.gov. It's all the same. Huge premiums, huge deductibles, no subsidy qualifications. However we do have plenty of choices, just none of them involve affordable healthcare.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:02 | Link to Comment kareninca
kareninca's picture

thank you for the info, ASnake

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:17 | Link to Comment debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Obamacare is invented to put a new dollar in place in an earlier stage. Like finishing off the starving debt beast. It has nothing to do with "care", it's about taking care of 'things'.

Read it: "Obamacare".

It's like Kim Jung Un showing his bare ass to South Korea on state tv.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:17 | Link to Comment TheGermanGuy
TheGermanGuy's picture

People paying for Obamacare... like that´s ever gonna happen

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:25 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

I think it's only fair that we pay for the healthcare of Africa. It's not fair that people don't have healthcare and it is our moral obligation to provide it for them. Furthermore insurance companies should provide coverage even if no one pays a premium. Equality for all.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:29 | Link to Comment Animal Cracker
Animal Cracker's picture

Do they accept bit coin?

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:33 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

BY HOOK OR BY CROOK trailer, you know
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-gCa-Fp3GA (0:24)

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Dr. Destructo
Dr. Destructo's picture

Just take it out from the money I "owe" thanks to your wasteful spending .gov. Kay?

Eventually we'll call it even.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:38 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Soon as I have my degree I'm outta this hell-hole.

Long live Nancy Pelosi.

Good-bye.

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 17:53 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

This has been plotted out for years. Why do you think a negro resides in the WH. Once again, Time Magazine spills the beans. Pope Francis, The Choice

 

This video was created in 2005. Watch to understand the significant storyline about to unfold unless someone changes (prevents the event). Just my 2 cents, get to work!

Ministry Messiah

 

 

 

 

Sat, 12/14/2013 - 18:28 | Link to Comment TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

The implementation of Obamacare is so niggardly stupid that it must be so expensively wise.

Does anyone think the implementation is just niggardly stupid.  This is not racist as niggardly is a great desciptive word.

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