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The IMF Disagrees With Zero Hedge

Tyler Durden's picture


On Thursday, after we presented an article by Simon Black in which the author suggested that the IMF was implicitly proposing a 71% tax-rate on Americans, by "suggesting that the US government could maximize its tax revenue by increasing tax brackets to as high as 71%", the IMF took offense to this characterization, and tweeted out the following:


Naturally, the IMF has a right to its opinion, be it retroactive revisionism, or proactive humorous predictions about the future, which incidentally we have charted in the past showing just how "accurate" the IMF's forecasting track record has been in recent years...




... but since the topic of taxation, be it on wealth (something we warned about in September 2011, which as depositors in Cyprus banks learned about the hard way in March of this year), or income, is far less humorous, we leave it up to readers to decide just what the IMF is "proposing", using only the IMF's own words.

Below we present the key passage from the IMF's October 2013 Fiscal Monitor report titled "Taxing Times."

Whether those with the highest incomes could or should pay more has become a contentious political issue in many countries. Several, given large consolidation needs, have bucked the decades-long trend by increasing top personal income tax rates quite substantially: since 2008, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom have all done so, on average by more than 8 percentage points.


Assessing whether there is untapped revenue potential at the top of the income distribution requires comparing today’s top marginal income tax rate with the marginal tax rate that would maximize the amount of tax paid by top income earners. The latter depends on two things: first, how responsive their taxable income is to that marginal rate—which in turn depends on both “real” decisions (on labor supply efforts and the like) and “paper” avoidance activities; and second, the distribution of income within that upper group. Ranges of revenue-maximizing top income tax rates can be calculated by combining existing estimates of the elasticity of taxable income with the data on income distribution used above. The average is about 60 percent. In several cases, current top marginal rates are toward the lower end of the range (Figure 17), implying that it might indeed be possible to raise more from those with the highest incomes.


How much more? The implied revenue gain if top rates on only the top 1 percent were returned to their levels in the 1980s averages about 0.20 percent of GDP (Figure 18), but the gain could in some cases, such as that of the United States, be more significant. This would not make much of a dent in aggregate inequality, for which, if that is the objective, more dramatic change would be needed.

Figure 17:

Furthermore, here is additional commentary from the WSJ dated December 3, 2013 with "The Coming Global Wealth Tax", preceding our article if picking up where we left off in September 2011, and curiously a piece the IMF had no problems with:

What the IMF calls "revenue-maximizing top income tax rates" may be a good indication of how much further those rates could rise: As the IMF calculates, the average revenue-maximizing rate for the main Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development countries is around 60%, way above existing levels.


For the U.S., it is 56% to 71%—far more than the current 45% paid in federal, state and local taxes by those in the top tax bracket. The IMF singles out the U.S. as the country where raising top rates toward 70% (where they were before the Reagan tax cuts) would yield the most revenue—around 1.25% of GDP. And with a chilling candor, the IMF admits that its revenue-maximizing approach takes no account of the well-being of top earners (or their businesses).




Of course these measures won't return the world's top economies to sustainable levels of debt. That could be achieved only through significant economic growth (the good way) or, as the IMF puts it, "by repudiating public debt or inflating it away" (the bad way). In October the IMF floated a bold idea that didn't get the attention it deserved: lowering sovereign debt levels through a one-off tax on private wealth.


As applied to the euro zone, the IMF claims that a 10% levy on households' positive net worth would bring public debt levels back to pre-financial crisis levels. Such a tax sounds crazy, but recall what happened in euro-zone country Cyprus this year: Holders of bank accounts larger than 100,000 euros had to incur losses of up to 100% on their savings above that threshold, in order to "bail-in" the bankrupt Mediterranean state. Japanese households, sitting on one of the world's largest pools of savings, have particular reason to worry about their assets: At 240% of GDP, their country's public debt ratio is more than twice that of Cyprus when it defaulted.




From New York to London, Paris and beyond, powerful economic players are deciding that with an ever-deteriorating global fiscal outlook, conventional levels and methods of taxation will no longer suffice. That makes weapons of mass wealth destruction—such as the IMF's one-off capital levy, Cyprus's bank deposit confiscation, or outright sovereign defaults—likelier by the day.

Indeed, here is the IMF on the prospect of a "one-off" financial asset tax:

A One-Off Capital Levy?


The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a “capital levy”— a one-off tax on private wealth—as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability. The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair). There have been illustrious supporters, including Pigou, Ricardo, Schumpeter, and—until he changed his mind—Keynes. The conditions for success are strong, but also need to be weighed against the risks of the alternatives, which include repudiating public debt or inflating it away (these, in turn, are a particular form of wealth tax—on bondholders—that also falls on nonresidents).


There is a surprisingly large amount of experience to draw on, as such levies were widely adopted in Europe after World War I and in Germany and Japan after World War II. Reviewed in Eichengreen (1990), this experience suggests that more notable than any loss of credibility was a simple failure to achieve debt reduction, largely because the delay in introduction gave space for extensive avoidance and capital flight—in turn spurring inflation.


The tax rates needed to bring down public debt to precrisis levels, moreover, are sizable: reducing debt ratios to end-2007 levels would require (for a sample of 15 euro area countries) a tax rate of about 10 percent on households with positive net wealth

... which promptly resulted in this "IMF Statement on Taxation" clarification.

So is Zero Hedge wrong as the IMF broadly trumpets? We'll let readers decide. However, we just wanted to set the record straight - after all the last thing we want is for the IMF to admit it is wrong once again as it did in early 2013 with the whole "fiscal multipliers" fiasco (about which incidentally the IMF would be absolutely correct if instead of "austerity" the IMF were to use the proper term in its calculations: "corruption, gross government incompetence and epic capital misallocation").


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Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:24 | Link to Comment markmotive
markmotive's picture

The sooner we realize that nobody really knows what the f@ck is going on the better.

There is no 'right' answer. There never has been and there never will be.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:35 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"The sooner everyone realizes that Durden and Crew really knows what the f@ck is going on the better."

There fixed.

Congrats on getting the attention of the global elite.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:42 | Link to Comment Skid Marks
Skid Marks's picture



Grant me thirty years of equal division of inheritances and a free press, and I will provide you with a republic.

--Alexis de Tocqueville

When the public's right to know is threatened, and when the rights of free speech and free press are at risk, all of the other liberties we hold dear are endangered.

--Christopher Dodd

No government ought to be without censors; and where the press is free no one ever will.

--Thomas Jefferson

The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses.

--Vladimir Lenin


Our country is now geared to an arms economy bred in an artificially induced psychosis of war hysteria and an incessant propaganda of fear.

Douglas MacArthur

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:47 | Link to Comment kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

hehehehhehe........foch you IMF

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:17 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Perhaps Legarde is not as thick skinned as she appears.   

Fucking IMF cocksuckers, existing to destroy populations and raid their national resources for the oligarchs since 1944.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:30 | Link to Comment BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Preach it LTER.


You forgot, 'subsidize infrastructure with national debt and then sell to private business cronies'


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

We are already paying 71% when you factor in federal state and local income taxes! then add on property, sales, and other hidden taxes on gas, cigarettes and your phone. Top that off with the myriad of fees and licenses you need to buy and 71% is probably on the low side.

Work 10 days and you get to keep 3 of it to live on. Shut up slave or we will make it 2.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:54 | Link to Comment clymer
clymer's picture

you just know that the self-described trendy at the IMF who decided it would be a good idea to address ZH over a tweet has probably made a CLM (career limiting move)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:09 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

YIKES, IMF Admits They READ ZEROHEDGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PS... {{Christine, can I Have A Pic Of You In Those Garters}} ???
Preddy Please...
AND... Send A Few SDR's While Your At It...>>> I PROMISE NOT To BUY

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:24 | Link to Comment TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

All we know for sure is that they check Twitter for people saying "IMF" and respond to the occasional controversial tweet by accounts that have a fair amount of followers and/or retweets.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:32 | Link to Comment Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

Now that a low class relic hugging piece of shit like me has a chance to be under the gaze of the "esteemed" "all knowing" "great" Overlords, i beseech you all to please accept my service, and please, if you be so kind, to not exterminate me when your excellencies think its time to depopulate this planet.

In your service forever O Lords

Thank you


PS: I bet that moron Joe wiesenthal is burning with envy

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:12 | Link to Comment The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture


Economic Hitmen that are repsonsible for untold global suffering, death, poverty and hunger.

You have been weighed and you have been measured. Rest assured you will all be the first up against the wall, your lives are forfeit.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:27 | Link to Comment FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Does the IMF get their updates on various websites right from the NSA? Seem like it would be the efficient way to do things since they are spying on everyones web traffic anyway.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:58 | Link to Comment ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

@zerohedge is wrong: IMF does not propose a 71% income tax.


72% ?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Anti-IMF? Bitcoins are the answer. Get some free:

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:52 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture


IMF.. since like what.. late 1930’s?

Zero.. zilch.. nada.. squat end game for paper fiat like forever..

Choose wisely.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:55 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

And every single one of us making comments here are on their shit list. (I was already there and have gotten emails from their execs saying nearly as much, so fuck it anyway.)  I bet they monkey-hammer gold and silver at the open just to piss us off.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 04:41 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

"Perhaps Legarde is not as thick skinned as she appears"

Skin as tender as DiMaggio's glove?

..and/or tanned simularly,

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 07:32 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



I sense the IMF is about to announce massive gold sales again......but just not to Eric Sprott.


So what are you doing with all that massive revenue again?


P.S. where did you get all that gold anyway.....can Germany have some back?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 09:29 | Link to Comment kralizec
kralizec's picture

Dear Germany,

Sorry, we are really busy, we'll get back to you later.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment MontgomeryScott
MontgomeryScott's picture

@zerohedge: IMF doesn't propose a 71% income tax...

No, of course 'WE' don't. We're merely suggesting voicferously that the IMF-run IRS impose one on the top-rate taxpayers in the United States, NOW (or else).

Of COURSE, those at ZEROHEDGE are nothing but a bunch of tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist nut-jobs, and 'WE' NEVER 'said' that a 71 % tax rate would be 'desirable' (heh heh heh)...

(Note to IRS: Impose this tax, now, or else, bitchez...)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment Enslavethechild...
EnslavethechildrenforBen's picture

Shameless cock suckers would be happy if they could tax us at 971%

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 00:14 | Link to Comment chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ah, it reminds me of the Good Old Days™ of Zero Hedge when I got to directly confront Lloyd Blankfein via an open invitation on Zero Hedge to invite his correspondence.  To wit, my communication was something along the lines of, "GO FUCK YOURSELF" with some added flare.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 22:21 | Link to Comment old naughty
old naughty's picture

IMF, UN, WHO...all administrator-executors of tptb agendas.

None of them tell the truth, ZH does !

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 00:05 | Link to Comment linniepar
linniepar's picture

Soberone was here.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:30 | Link to Comment BoNeSxxx
BoNeSxxx's picture

Said 'trendy' also appears to have a ZH username and password... judging by the number of (-1) downvotes.

Spoiled Sport.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:27 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Zero Hedge twerkin in Legarde's face...ya gotta love

#StripperTipsGoUntaxed ;-)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:59 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

If it causes enough damage, it could be a LEM

(Life Ending Move)

No smalll planes - no hot tubs - no hotel balconies................

Go carefully.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment blackbeardz
blackbeardz's picture

-don't forget fast 'n furious cars


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:51 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

YIKES, IMF Admits They READ ZEROHEDGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment clymer
clymer's picture

you know what Ghandi used to say: first they ignore you, then they respond to your tweets..

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:50 | Link to Comment lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

and then they grant you an h1b visa!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:08 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Please Dis Lagarde those crazies @ ZH.  ALL is well.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:31 | Link to Comment theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

(First they ignore you ....)

Looks like we've got a man on third base now.

You've come a long way ZH baby.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:05 | Link to Comment zappelscreech
zappelscreech's picture

ZH has done it now.  The're a force to be respected and feared.  Funny how the liers react to truth smackin'em in the face.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

It's not the first time.  Remember "template" (bail-ins)?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 03:53 | Link to Comment Bearwagon
Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:35 | Link to Comment michael_engineer
michael_engineer's picture

It would make sense for the IMF, the Fed, and the 0.001 percent to read ZH because of the kernels of truth and important opinions expressed here that aren't expressed elsewhere in the MSM.  Similarly, I'm confident that the sheiks, the oil powerful, and the 0.001 percent used to read the materials at for the same reasons.  Or at least they had some high level underlings summarize the important stuff for them.  And I'd bet that they still follow the good analyses on those topics that can still be found by the expert authors of the guest posts that you occasionally read here.  Personally, I come to ZH for both the insights in the articles and the kernels in the commentary such as this interesting new development :

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 05:56 | Link to Comment StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

That's it, use ZH to pimp your silly web site.  Spamming scum.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment michael_engineer
michael_engineer's picture

Deviant --  Please enlighten me about your bright contributions to the discussions here on ZH.  Do you have anything that you can proudly point out to us?  

I've been here a while, with a pretty good footprint.  The material at the below link was proffered here in the past by me.  It's a good read that many here appreciated and it discusses some economic concerns in insightful and unique ways :

Please note that for some reason, good or bad, it used to be directly available, now it has to be found in an archive.
Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

Yeah, knowing they read it makes me wonder which one of you cunts is an IMF shill. Lately I think they've increased hiring in their troll division. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 03:09 | Link to Comment caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

Exactly!  "Oldman" was doing some good divice-and-conquer service.  Perhaps the Tyler's would do a service to us all and check the IP addresses of the posters here.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:41 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Hah, quit yer whingin and don't work at all.

It's Obamafare for everyone!

Obamaphone, Obamacare, Obamacrisis, Obamaphonyscandal, Obamalies ...

Dude, it's Utopia!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:13 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

OT, but what is up with this word "whinging"?

The first few times I saw it here on ZH, I just took it to be a spelling error for "whining", but I keep seeing it (in that same general context), so I wonder if you actually meant to spell it that way, and if so, why?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment beaglebog
beaglebog's picture

Pronounced like "singeing".


English verb ... to cry, moan, bleat, complain and generally "carry on like an old woman" or spoilt child.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:39 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Beagle, your definition covers the word "whining", spelled without a "g".

"Whinging" is not, as far as I have ever seen or read, an actual English word.


EDIT: I looked up "whinge" online, and lo and behold, it IS apparently a real English word after all!  But it is just another one of those weird archaic Britishisms, like "whilst" or arse" or "Queen Elizabeth".

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:42 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Pronoucned 'Win-jing' - English - as in 'British English/UK English'.  Basically means the same as 'whining'

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:44 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

You learn something new every day!

In all my decades of extensive reading, I have never once run across the word "whinging" until seeing it in comments here on ZH a year or two ago.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:17 | Link to Comment Keyser
Keyser's picture

You must have never been to the UK. 95% of the people there whinge about one thing or another. It's a national passtime. The weather and the food are shit, so they do have a reason to whinge. 


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:46 | Link to Comment Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Damn, I was sure it meant "faking knowing sign language".

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 21:16 | Link to Comment Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

Damn!  My dog just saturated the air with fart vapors!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 02:08 | Link to Comment Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Bragging or whinging?


Stack On

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:33 | Link to Comment SolarSystem1932
SolarSystem1932's picture


I have 5 decades of interpretting the written word,

and lately, those types of letter arrangements (whingin[g])

are making it difficult to read anything.

As soon as I see "4get", I jump to the next article/comment.

Don't get me started on Acronyms.  I started my personal

acronym dictionary years ago, but could not keep up since most were...


My tin foil moment:  The NSA is removing verbs from sentences to drive us crazy.

And while I'm here...what the hell is "True. Dat." ???

My father often mocked the 'local' manner of speech, and his dialog

slowly aligned with every ebonic utterance.  Odd human paradox.

We become what we fear and hate.


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:33 | Link to Comment phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

@ Solar,  I agree completely with all that you said ... True, Dat, Bro

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Mandel Bot
Mandel Bot's picture

Its a British word. It means to complain in an annoying way. Correct spelling is 'wingeing' from the noun 'to winge'

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:49 | Link to Comment Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Holy shit.


The "noun"?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:09 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Holy shit.

The "noun"?

Actually, it's a voun, except for the first time it's used in a paragraph, when it's called a nerb.

This is why ESL instructors make the big bucks.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:58 | Link to Comment darkpool2
darkpool2's picture

Many years ago when i was in Australia for a few months, the word "whingeing"(sp...?) was in everyday use . I had never heard it used in the UK......but oddly enough its most common use in the vernacular was to put down the UK ex-pats who were commonly described as " whinging Poms" !!......whineres, complainers, malcontents....those who couldnt/ wouldnt adapt to life in Australia.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 22:32 | Link to Comment BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Heavy duty that the IMF feels the need to respond to the ZH Team...good stuff - congrats!


For the side grammar topic going on...


'A disturbing sign of cultural decline is that more and more people cannot write a proper sentence...'

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 04:14 | Link to Comment supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

 whinge (hwnj, wnj) intr.v. whinged, whing·ing, whing·es Chiefly British To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner. [Dialectal alteration of Middle English whinsen, from Old English hwinsian.] whinger n. whinging·ly adv.

. whinge [w?nd?] Informal vb whinges, whingeing, whinged (intr) 1. to cry in a fretful way 2. to complain n a complaint [from a Northern variant of Old English hwinsian to whine; related to Old High German winsan, winisan, whence Middle High German winsen] whingeing n & adj whinger n

In Germany its its still a common word. Nowadays its written: winseln

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:31 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

The thread has clearly responded to your query. In a most amazing and detailed Zero Hedgian fashion.

What I find funny is that I imagined a pirate saying it, that's why I chose "yer" in place of "your".


Lo and behold, a Pirate responded!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:35 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"I believe that we are facing a triple crisis—an economic crisis, an environmental crisis, and, increasing, a social crisis.”
-Christine Legarde, @ theRio+20 conference

She's perfect for the IMF.  She's another redistributive Progressive trying to save the World from Global Warming and Social injustice.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:20 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Ah, yes.  It all fits so neatly in your convenient left/right, progressive/conservative paradigm.

You really need to stop concentrating on what they say, and focus on what they do.  She could give a flying fuck about global warming and social injustice.  Nothing she does is consistent with that agenda, but it gives her cover.   If the IMF said, "we are taking your money for your banker/global corporation overlords," the organization would not be tolerated for very long, would it.   Think outside of your narrow ideological box some time and it will start to make sense.  Until then, you're shooting the message while the messenger runs off with the loot based upon an agenda which is precisely the opposite of what she says.  Or do you also think the Fed was created to foster price stability and full employment?  

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:28 | Link to Comment TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

It is much more likely that these idiots genuinely believe in what they say and just have too short of an attention span to realize that their actions don't line up with their claimed intentions, than that they are all competent enough to pull off some sort of conspiracy involving pretending they believe something so as to hide their true intentions.

I mean, think of the sort of person who goes into government in the first place. Chances are they're someone power hungry and not competent enough to acquire that power any other way, or they're some idiot who actually thinks government is a force for good in the world. Neither of those is all that likely to be some sort of genius oligarch. I highly doubt that even 1% of these robots has the intelligence required to be pulling the scam that you think they are.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:35 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I'm so tired of people saying it is a "conspiracy" to think that global monied interests masquerade around under the banner of do-gooders, and instead that they really are just too stupid to understand what they are doing and only accidentally enrich a few thousand families at the expense of the remainder of humanity.  Legarde started her career as a lawyer for Baker & McKenzie, which represents a Who's Who of global corporations.  She is no dummy and the IMF most certainly operates to enrich globalists.    Read Confessions of an Economic Hitman for a glimpse.


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:00 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

great book

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:34 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

I do pay attention to what they do, you should too.  None of the other "Libs" give a fuck about Global warming or Social Justice either.   If you don't understand that progressives, which means a progressive Socialists, don't have Global Socialism in mind to save us (NWO), then I can't help you.  Because to you , there is no difference between progressive socialist and conservative ideology.  At least that's what you say, but you're a progressive who hates libertarians, Mises, Rand etc., you hate anything not of your progressive ideology.  So I don't trust you as far as I can spit.  But I still love you ;)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

There are so many strawmen in your response that it is absolute proof to me that you really don't care what the truth is and that you simply mindly regurgidate what you hear from Rush Limbaugh and that anyone who disagrees with you must be an evil "progressive."   The only thing you have correct in your rant is that I think Rand was a tool of the oligarchs.  Greenspan proved it.  But taking just a few of your other points before I head off to enjoy my day:    I voted for Ron Paul, yet I hate libertarians?  I've often expressed agreement with some of Mises' theories, but because I don't mindlessly accept all of his conclusions I hate him (I do hate the Mises Institute of Canada, which posts absolute drivel and is nothing more than a front for globalists)?  Socialism by definition seeks to transfer all private property to the public at large, which is so far off the radar for the NWO that only a fool or a liar would equate the two.   As always, go ahead and take the last word.   I'm sure there's something on Rush' website you can quote, like the term "limo liberal" you used below.  

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:08 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Why should I believe you voted for RP after not only voting for Obama but defending his BS policies for years?  You're always indirectly undermining everything RP stands for.  You dance around every issue and pose like you're in partial agreement.  Face it Lola, you only stand for your own self interest.  Only God knows what you think you will gain.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:44 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Not that I disagree with gist of your comment entirely however....

"There are so many strawmen in your response"

Um...says the one who is Poisoning the Well, with a side of hasty generalization. And I quote,

"you really don't care what the truth is and that you simply mindly regurgidate what you hear from Rush Limbaugh"

"The only thing you have correct in your rant is that I think Rand was a tool of the oligarchs.  Greenspan proved it"

Because Greenspank once wrote an article in a Rand publication, Rand is a tool of the Oligarchs? How so?

It should be obvious that Rand's ideas were usurped, similar to Tea Party, and OWS movements by typical divide and conquer tactics. To the contrary, perhaps Greenspank was the tool for the purpose of destroying Rand's philosophy? Why is the one whose words are prophetic, whose books are now documentaries (soon to be history), so reviled, while the Statist gets a free pass? Rand knew that the battle lines are drawn between the productive and the unproductive. Membership in either group is wealth agnostic.

Because Rush says, "Limo Liberal" such a term is invalidated when used to describe people like Al Gore, who identify as Liberals? Never mind that current Liberals do not even know the origin thus the meaning of the term liberal or liberalism.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:13 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Greenspan co-wrote with Rand and was part of her inner-circle.   A rational, objective person (using terms you understand) who was not already a true believer would never accept "Greenspan was kidding" or "Rand's ideas were usurped" as an explanation for him and his reign of destruction over the Western economies in favor of the oligarchs.   Instead, they would surmise that Rand's philosophy is a cancer when anyone who believes that philosophy puts it into practice.   Greenspan is a smart guy and no one is going to convince me that he is not a perfect example of what Rand followers do to society at large when given the keys.

What do you have to support your contrary view?  Some fiction books?   

There are libraries full of philosophies that don't work in practice.  Put the Rand books back in the fiction section where they belong.

By the way, do you notice how Harbanger's last criticism of me is that I must just be standing for my own self-interest?  Funny how he doesn't get the irony of that statement in the context of this discussion.  I seem to recall that pursuing one's self-interest is the very pillar on which Rand's philosophy stands.   But that doesn't bother you either, does it.  

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 23:32 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture


The core of the problem is that many of you believe that there are Political Solutions. THERE ARE NO POLITICAL SOLUTIONS.


Do you understand that Liberatarianism WILL NOT WORK? The REASON is that a true Libertarian cannot COERCE others to buy into the system. Most are just too ignorant to adopt it WILLINGLY. It is not their "fault". It is Hard Wired for Pack Animals (Humans) to submit to leadership. Your hope is just in the WRONG UNPRODUCTIVE PLACE.


There is NO HOPE for that "ideal Utopia". Of course I am NOT PROPOSING or ENDORSING ENSLAVEMENT. Unfortunately it is Hard Wired into the DNA. This can be demonstrated, NOT JUST WITH HUMANS, but throughout the Animal Kingdom, when Animals are in Packs. An Alpha will emerge. That is the REALITY. That is NATURAL LAW. You may not like it. But you cannot transcend Natural Law...without God.




If you do not like it then break away from the Pack and DO NOT PARTICIPATE.


(Of course your self imposed ostracism will just serve to weaken you as it has me. But I do that for Moral Reasons, Spiritual Reasons, to which you do not ascribe.)


But being an ATHEIST you need to ABANDON Morality. "Beyond Good and Evil", by Freidrich Nietsche, is a good book to read if you are an atheist. You must understand that Might makes Right in the Animal Kingdom. The strong thrive and survive while the weak are depleted and die. There is no "Crisis of Morality" when a Lion kills a Gazelle or when a Central Bank steals from the weaker Banks, a Government Treasury, or the working Public. You may NOT LIKE IT. Regardless of whether you like it or not...THE REALITY DOES NOT CHANGE. It is NOT RIGHT. It is NOT WRONG. It is the Natural Order.


So do as Altlas did and Shrug. Ayn Rand was an Atheist well schooled in Nietsche. There is just no need for a "Crisis of Conscience" if you reject God. Morality is just a Human Construct, manufactured to control you, and you need to transcend the Banalities of Good and Evil. You need to move beyond it.


Now I am not writing that you are immoral. I am writing that you need to ABANDON IT so that you are RATIONALLY CONSISTENT. Morality just does NOT SERVE YOU WELL. That is why Ayn Rand was so successful.


But, as for me, I will continue to place my hope in God. At least my "delusion" is much better than placing your hope into a system that can NEVER be manifested as it is a fucking Pipe Dream. Thus I take a Moral Stance and I am RATIONALLY CONSISTENT.


Understand the difference?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 00:02 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

There is no political solution
To our troubled evolution
Have no faith in constitution
There is no bloody revolution

I would otherwise argue against your post, in that other animals have not developed grammar, logic, and rhetoric (trivium) forms of liberal arts. Animals do not participate in free exchange, or understand the notion of universally preferrable behavior. I say this as a member of the species that has risen to the top of the food chain...FWIW.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 02:26 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

We are Spirits in the Material World...Personally I ascribe to a Holy Existence, one that is set apart. from that of the Animal Kingdom.  (The literal meaning of the word, "Holy" is "set apart".)


In the slim case that you did not understand, in the poem "Spirits in the Material World", when Sting delivers the question, "Where does the answer lie?", he is NOT a writing of a particular location. That word, "LIE", means DECEPTION.


As to your rebuttal I will agree that SOME Humans are very developed in regards to their Cognitive Faculties.  They are the enlightened.


However most are unaware of their Primary Motivators. They dull their Cognitive Minds with Durgs, Alcohol and TELEVISION, and tend to react as a result of their instinctual drives rather than that of their Rational and Cognitive Thought. Most people are Emotively Operant rather than Cognitively Operant.


Bernays could not have dreamed how well his Operant Conditioning, through shutting down Cerebral Thinking, and dirctly influencing the Emotive Mind, will have worked through the implementation of the Mass Media, through the electronics of Television Programming. I am awed by the Mass Hypnosis induced through the Television Set. It is evidential that the people do not think Cognitively after the assault upon the Visual and Auditory Senses, which they willingly seek.


Thus most people are driven by the Reptilian Brain and the Emotional Mind with their Cognitive Facilities shut down,  and are not predisposed or inclined to implement the Trivium. They are blinded by ignorance which yields myopic and bitemporal hemianopic VISION. They are affectively BLIND, thus easily swayed and manipulated.


Since you are also as fond of Rock Lyrics as I am...


We will find you acting on your best behavior,

Turn your back on Mother Nature

Everybody wants to rule the World.


I can't stand this indecision,

Married with a LACK OF VISION,

Everybody wants to Rule the World.


With that written I will now address the point that the logical and rational conclusion to the choice of atheism is the abandonment of Morality. One of my atheist friends gets great joy and peace from reading Nietsche's "Beyond Good and Evil" which is a treatise on transcending the issue of Morality. Although I am diametrically opposed I do understand. It would be foolish not to understand his motivations.


If one takes a position that we are just animals, and Darwinism is the prima facie evidence for our existence, then it follows that the weak need to perish for the survival of the fittest. Efficient use of limited resources become paramount for survival of the species. Just do not turn your back on Mother Nature as everybody wants to rule the World. It is not wrong. It is not right. But it is the Reality if you reject God. It is the rational choice.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 04:00 | Link to Comment supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

If one takes a position that we are just animals, and Darwinism is the prima facie evidence for our existence, then it follows that the weak need to perish for the survival of the fittest.

Your conclusion (or is it Nietzsches?) is in principle correct. But that is hard stuff.  If one thinks it to the end it means that nobody is doing something good, Individual human Life is just trying to survive and promoting its personal ideas of life.


Thus most people are driven by the Reptilian Brain and the Emotional Mind ...  

I agree with your statement. I came to the same conclusion when observing the behaviour of my dog and comparing it with a dog I had many years ago. One dog was extreme greedy and agressive when somebody came close to his food (fortunately it was only a small dog).  Even when he was already full stuffed he did not stop this behaviour. The other one was of course also greedy (as all dogs and humans are) but when he was full he allowed it even that another dog ate from his bowl what he had left over.

I concluded, that these characteristics and  their different  behaviours are deeply rooted within the primitive  part of their brain.  They are like this and nothing can change them. 

Its the same with humans some are extreme greedy and do never get enough while others stop beeing greedy once they are satisfied for the moment.  The extreme greedy one is greedy and stays greedy for ever since this is his nature.  

But since humans are at least a bit more clever than dogs the greedy one realizes when growing up that it is not clever to show this part of his character in the open. He is hiding it. But he is what he is and he can never change himself. But this is not his fault because nature produced him like this.

And there is a rule in my opinion. The greedier a person is, the better he is hiding it so that it is very hard to see it.  But when the time comes his true character breaks through with full force. There is nothing what can stop it. Such person simply does not know what friendship is and they are many.


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 07:05 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

If one takes a position that we are just animals, and Darwinism is the prima facie evidence for our existence, then it follows that the weak need to perish for the survival of the fittest.


This is just my understanding of the pure, absolutely rational Atheist...the ideal Atheist. I neither ascribe to it nor own it as I am Theist in my approach. But I do want to understand others' positions.


You are correct. It is hard stuff. It is cold, void of emotion, rational, and it is a transcension of Good and Evil.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 00:16 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Greenspan co-wrote with Rand and was part of her inner-circle.

Again....poisoning the well. You are not starting off very well, if you wish to refute my arguments.

A rational, objective person (using terms you understand) who was not already a true believer would never accept "Greenspan was kidding" or "Rand's ideas were usurped" as an explanation for him and his reign of destruction over the Western economies in favor of the oligarchs.

Suspiciously close to Ad Hominem. Elaborate please? Having rationally, and objectively observed the fake world in which we live, western economies were fucking doomed regardless of Greenspank. PERI-FUCKING-OD! Greenspank is merely a convenient strawman.

Instead, they would surmise that Rand's philosophy is a cancer when anyone who believes that philosophy puts it into practice.


Is it freedom that failed (Rand), or is it Central Planning, and Statism that have failed (Greespank/Bernanke)?

Greenspan is a smart guy and no one is going to convince me that he is not a perfect example of what Rand followers do to society at large when given the keys.

IOW, despite the evidence you seek that which is irrational based on your current confirmation bias. Nice to know.

What do you have to support your contrary view?  Some fiction books?   

There are libraries full of philosophies that don't work in practice.  Put the Rand books back in the fiction section where they belong.

Except that Rand is still a documentary. Soon to be a history book. Perhaps you think her presience makes her a witch?

By the way, do you notice how Harbanger's last criticism of me is that I must just be standing for my own self-interest?

Irrelevant however I comprehend the irony. I thing the assumption, given your pattern of support for statism, revolves around  the possibility that you may be acting in your own self interests while the self interests of others may not be allowed.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

I really don't give much a shit what Greenspan wrote or who he hung out with. It didn't matter for Obama and shouldn't with him, right? The only thing that really matters is what one does, just like the liberals who constantly preach about being for "the little guy", while completely fucking them over. I don't know of any public leader who aligns themselves with Rand, except for the "extremists" who have no sway in policy. You really need to find a new straw man (women) to beat on. This is tiring.

As far as your definition of socialism as being the transfer of property to "the public at large", who exactly are they or is it? That property that belongs to the "public" doesn't belong to me. They put a fence around it and at best, charge admission, plus tax me additionally to maintain and support it. There is no "public at large" there is only ourselves and someone else. When 50% of all assets belong to .5% of the population, is that getting close enough to transferring our property to "others"? What is the difference between the public at large and the top .5%?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 03:29 | Link to Comment caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

oldwood, you're a commenting dynamo of late!   please let us know, are we being screwed by the 0.1%, or are we being screwed by minorities?   it's hard to keep track of your opinions, other than incoherence and divisiveness.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Deacon Frost
Deacon Frost's picture

Philosophies must be put into practice to know if they do not work in practice.

Greenspan was a traitor to the Objectivist movement of Ann Rand.

A good paper to read, is when Greenspan was true to the ideals, is his 1966/67 treatise,

‘Gold and Economic Freedom’ (referring to the tyranny of the Statists).


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 23:07 | Link to Comment LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

If you're going to defend that pathetic excuse for a human, it's Ayn.  

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 23:39 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Greenspan is not pathetic. Ayn Rand is not pathetic. Why are you so jugmental? There is NO SUCH THING AS GOOD AND EVIL...if you are true to your beliefs. You need to read some Nietsche as Ayn Rand did.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 00:20 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture defend the Statist, TPTB, oligarch excuse for an anarcho-capitalist, rather than the philosopher.

Sounds like appeal to authority form of ad hominem. IOW, you fail to argue ideas in favor of attacking the person.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:54 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

It seems the best way to create a crisis is to claim the crisis exists and then impose policies and solutions that in theory would correct or prevent the crisis from worsening, as we see has worked so wonderfully in our current healthcare crisis. We are suffering under an economic crisis that was predicted by those who thought the Federal Reserve as a solution and preventitive force. Since their creation the crisis' have not been eliminated and if anything have become worse and as we saw with the drastic measures taken since 08, things only seem to have worsened to become what we see as a REAL crisis. We must create a crisis in order to fix it. Its our #1 industry.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:58 | Link to Comment NeoLuddite
NeoLuddite's picture

Agreed. A clever execution of the Hegelian dialectic in concert with Saul Anlinsky's rules for radicals. Inevitably the solution will lead to a new crisis. Rinse and repeat.

Problems are opportunities in disguise, but OTOH opportunities are problems in disguise.


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:54 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

Hey, if global warming has turned your skin orange you'd be worried too.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:44 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Hey, you're right!  Maybe she's reading!

Hi, Christine!  After the revolution, you will be put on trial for crimes against humanity.

Practice delivering speeches from the inside of a bulletproof glass booth.

Practice saying "I was only following orders."

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:21 | Link to Comment Drifter
Drifter's picture

What revolution? 

You're delusional as she is.

More delusional actually.  There's some chance her 71% tax might happen.   There's no chance your revolution might happen.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

You can argue for your own chains.

Or you can stand up.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 21:53 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

These chains are moar better!

I VOTED for them!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 00:28 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Define "revolution?" Only that which is produced AND MONETIZED can be taxed.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:56 | Link to Comment Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

I am just wondering why I have to pay to live on the planet I was born on...

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 22:11 | Link to Comment Mr Poopra
Mr Poopra's picture

I believe we are taking something quite important for granted here:  The fact that they read ZeroHedge.


Let them hate, so long as they fear.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:22 | Link to Comment debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you.....

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:17 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

... then they start monitoring ALL your communications, then they call you a "terrorist", then they 'indefinitely detain' you, then they eventually kill you (or your spirit).

Until enough people wake the fuck up and say "ENOUGH!".

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:01 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

I strongly suspect Tyler has long been considered an enemy combatant and after this article has the cross hairs of a drone aimed squarely at his ass.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Not anymore, Tyler has become a product of his own success.

The edgey articles have succumbed to more and more politcal correctness lately.

Even the comments have become Huffpoesque.

But still better than most sites with comment sections where posters can tell us how they really feel...


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:04 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Welcome to all new bees who follow the IMF's tweets. Well played, Tylers.

We like to use terms like "guillotines" around here but we don't really mean it. We hate guns and that crazy notion of laying down our lives for the sake of posterity.

So, by all means, please sign up (with your maiden names) and add comments about the great work the IMF does for humanity.

We look foarward to your wisdom!


Edit: Does the B.I.S. have the twiitter?



Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:16 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

"New bees"!  LOL!

I take it for granite that for all intensive purposes you are joking.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:33 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Your assumption is for solid as the rock.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:08 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Excellent work, Akak.  (Is that an Egyptian name?)

But you should have said

"...for all intensive purposes your joking."

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:12 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Yore wright.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:19 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I love you, Akak.

After the Change, come to my place.

I will give you food, and a weapon, and ammunition.

And silver.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:36 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

That is very kind of you, Mick.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 21:39 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Careful Akak...

That Kai guy took up an offer like that and it didn't turn out well...

Smash, Smash, SMASH.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:44 | Link to Comment phaedrus1952
phaedrus1952's picture

Youze guys are gonna give ol' SolarSystem - up above - a hard attack.

Is Boris in the house to provide some sintactual clarity?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:54 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

I used to regularly get hard attacks when I was younger, especially in my teens, but not so much any more.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:23 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Their, they're, its just technicality's, no need to get an historical about it.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:34 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Hey Gooch, Shouldn't they also use their home addresses and a recent photo?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

I dig the plurality of "addresses" since most have additional condos near Central Park and Miami Beach.

One can deduce "posterity" and "family trees" by simple web searches.

Granted, our posterity is directly threatened by the policies and sociopathy of these benevolent bankers and their politico / media sycophants, their posterity shall be considered fair game.

Sever Roots, Tree Dies.


I can't place commas, so goodly but I can place accents within variations of 7 and shatter blue helmets from 750+ yds. 

Mick, you may want to head North to AKAK and bring that Red, Rider! It's snowing just like Cairo and the Salmon Tsunami® Rolls, Are, Fantastic!



Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:28 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Fuck, I hope he's not north of me.  I'm already in fucking Hyperboria here.

And anyway, I'm not moving.  I have my land, and I have planted my trees.

Let the inconstant Earth rotate how it will. 

I stay.


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

Thanks for the cryptic introduction. 


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 23:59 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

So we have the IMF's attention? Well played Tylers?


We first got their ATTENTION because of one WilliamBanzai7 and what he did, and we did, during that "Ask JPM" party. Wasn't that fun?

Then the Simon Black Article sealed it. What an opportunty.


Now the question remains...Just what do we do with it? That is up to all of us.


William Banzai...We have the Twitter address of the IMF. (How many pics do you have ready?) Let's nail them.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

-1 for Christopher Dodd...

Dodd is... what is the polite term... a fat f@$king moron... And so was his old man...

"It ain't me, it ain't me.
I ain't no Senator's son..."

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Yes, quoting that limo liberal Dodd speaking about liberty is idiotic.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:44 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Problem Is - you're right about old Tom Dodd. But he was more than just a moron. He was a thief, a traitor, and a closet Nazi.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

"Ima take a tenth of your income as a one-time tax to improve your shitty future by increasing next year's GDP forecast by 0.2%."

"Uh huh. What about the year after that?"


Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:10 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture


All these -1 downvotes!

She's here!

Hi, Christine.

I will put you on trial, and I will judge you.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yes, the details may be mysterious but the basics ar pretty clear - corruption, can kicking, contradiction, collapse

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:03 | Link to Comment lostintheflood
lostintheflood's picture

Congrats on getting the attention of the global elite.


that's what i was thinking!  who cares about the 71% tax rate...(i mean...they're gonna do whatever they're gonna do).  the important message here is that not only does the IMF READ zero hedge, but they actually TWEET zerohedge...who knew?!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

"ZH is wrong and right, we did not suppose a 71 % income tax, we were just taxing the 71% surplus population and tried to smear some coming action on anyone counting
the survival rates to zero like we do . "

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:33 | Link to Comment TheRedScourge
TheRedScourge's picture

All we know for sure is they check Twitter for people talking about them (the sort of narcisissm Twitter is meant for), and if someone with a lot of followers talks about them, they might dignify it with a response.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:05 | Link to Comment lewy14
lewy14's picture

ZH afforded the IMF opportunity to make an official denial.

And by official denial I mean "confirmation".

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 06:09 | Link to Comment StandardDeviant
StandardDeviant's picture

The whole thing reminds me of the classic British comedy, Yes Minister:

"The first rule of politics: never believe anything until it's been officially denied."

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:14 | Link to Comment JackT
JackT's picture

Logged in to up arrow you. Well played.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:20 | Link to Comment stant
stant's picture

we will have a new batch of trolls to go with the gems we have now monday morning

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:31 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

For Sale,

2 year old account. 15BTC.

Don't get busted as a troll for having a 2 week old account!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:01 | Link to Comment stant
stant's picture

oh i cant wait!! bs gets called out quick here. and unmercifully monkey hammered into shit. i thought i was above average smart ass until i got here. dont even rank.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 17:12 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I'll give you an ounce of silver.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:30 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


Don't get busted as a troll for having a 2 week old account!

The seasoned professionals / hasbarium enemas have a stash of reserve accounts that are 4+ years old with no posting history.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:44 | Link to Comment DESMO_RR
DESMO_RR's picture

I'd assume it's pretty safe to say that the global elite/IMF keep an eye on ZH so THEY know what the fuck is really going on! Congrats on getting/keeping their attention :)

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 15:00 | Link to Comment VD
VD's picture




Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment mt paul
mt paul's picture

i did not have sex

with that 71 %....


wearing an IMF tee shirt

to fight club

not a wise wardrobe choice 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment indygo55
indygo55's picture

Just redistribute the Rothchild wealth: Problem solved.



Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment thunderchief
thunderchief's picture

What is worth noting is that the IMF is interested in ZH.
Pimp a pusher too much and he shows up at your door.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:58 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

what's that scene from "The Bad Lieutenant"

"Julio: [after giving the Lieutenant drugs] Shit's gonna kill you, man!

The Lieutenant: What the fuck are you? A drug counsellor... or a drug dealer? If you don't deal your own product, what kind of businessman are you?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:08 | Link to Comment Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

I always feel like the bad lieutenant when driving to work, especially that scene where he loses money on the baseball game heh.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Alhazred
Alhazred's picture

You can say that, but I still think a few of these and a few guns are the way to plan.

But hey that's just me.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:57 | Link to Comment sgorem
sgorem's picture

now we know at least you're paying attention IMF! let me be the first to issue a warm and welcome holiday greeting in FUCK YOU!

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 16:00 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Since Bill Clinton's famous....or infamous....statement, "It depends on what the meaning of the word "IS" " ALWAYS must put the Bill Clinton linguistic filter on ANYTHING these psychopaths in financial and political power say.

So....yeah.....I believe that the IMF is telling the TRUTH when they say they don't propose it.   Now apply the Bill Clinton Linguistic filter on that and you will see that the IMF really means......."But.....we're just not proposing it NOW.  We're are not OPPOSED to a 71%'s just that we can't get enough sheeple on board to guarantee the result we want.  But that is the goal. "

Hello Frog.....this is slowly warming kettle of water.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:37 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


you ALWAYS must put the Bill Clinton linguistic filter on ANYTHING these psychopaths in financial and political power say.

It depends on what the meaning of the phrase "ass rape the middle class and small businesses" is.

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:33 | Link to Comment Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture
markmotive, I agree that "There is no one 'right' answer." However, I disagree that "nobody really knows what the f@ck is going on better."

The more one studies the problems, the worse they get. We have a fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting system, which evolved through the triumphant application of the methods of organized crime to take over control of the political processes. Money is measurement backed by murder. The murder system evolved through the history of warfare on the basis that success depended upon deceits, which then enabled the monetary system to become success based on frauds. Human realities are always organized lies operating organized robberies. There is surely NO one right answer inside of that context. There is only the continued muddling through the madness of the dynamic equilibria between the different systems of organized lies, operating organized robberies.

The IMF fits into the global systems set up by the international bankers, which were the biggest gangsters, the BANKSTERS, that were able to take control of the public money supply in almost all countries, in ways which resulted in the privatized power to make "money" out of nothing as debts. That social insanity automatically became exponentially worse, as its debt slavery systems drove numbers which became debt insanities. However, since the debt controls are based on the death controls, and both actually operate through the maximum possible frauds and deceits about themselves, enabling those benefiting from those systems to more and more dominate the political processes, and all social institutions, there are no practically possible 'right' answers to those problems. Rather, the bigger problems are that the human ecology is even more psychotic than the political economy, because both operate through EVIL DELIBERATE IGNORANCE!

As with the generalized global destruction of ocean ecologies, so too, the accumulating, apparently runaway, effects of all of the indirect pollution effects on the land, like the generation of ozone gas, are adding up and up, while the basic Neolithic Civilization IS still based on lies backed by violence, manifesting as deliberate ignorance! The social polarization driven by triumphant financial frauds is matched by the ways that also drives environmental destruction, both due to how backing up lies with violence works to dominate what civilization is doing, as primarily being dominated by deliberate ignorance towards what it is really doing!

The fundamental drivers are privatization of the profits, while losses are socialized, through political processes where the legalized lies, and related evil deliberate ignorance, are able to direct what the human species as whole actually does. Of course, inside of that context, ruling classes present the real problems distorted through proposed solutions which would benefit the ruling classes, rather than be real solutions to the real problems, which will "work" because the vast majority of people are too ignorant, and have been conditioned to want to stay that way. Adding all of the collective human ignorance together with the increasing powers of science and technology seems to be headed towards SEVERE FEEDBACK!

(While that process is shaking itself to bits, one interesting expression of that becomes the mainstream paying a little more attention to alternative views than they ever needed to do before. As many other comments on this article have already pointed out, the most surprising thing is the IMF paid any attention whatsoever to what was on the Zero Hedge Web site.)

The IMF is symbol of how the international banksters have driven their own triumphant organized crimes through towards their paradoxical mad self-destruction. In general, that is the basic problem with everything that the Neolithic styles of civilization, in the form of social pyramid systems, are doing. Since society has become based on legalized lies, backed by legalized violence, which requires increasing deliberate ignorance, which gets increasingly difficult to maintain, those systems are shaking themselves apart ... There are plenty of possible right answers, but any of those creative alternatives would have to be based upon alternative death controls to back up alternative debt controls, and that would have to attempt to develop through the already established ways that the current systems operate on the basis of their history of triumphant deceits and frauds.

The fundamentally fraudulent financial accounting systems, that legally allow private banks to make the public money supply out of nothing, as debts, are the most salient symbol of all the other ways that our society deliberately ignores the laws of nature, as those are expressed through evolutionary ecologies. Since human ecology was governed by the murder systems that evolved through the history of warfare, and since any surviving human ecology, inside of which some political economy would exist, MUST have its death controls as the central core to that, there are plenty of creative alternatives which are theoretically possible, but they all are more difficult and dangerous than we can imagine at the present time!


World Bank Whistleblower Karen Hudes Spills More! 11-30-13
Sun, 12/15/2013 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Goldenballs
Goldenballs's picture

To live in fear is a terrible thing,to deny that fear is dangerous,to deny that fear for over 50 years is deadly.Wonder what the coming event will be to eclipse the total collapse of the financial system,Stack to infinity,believe in yourself and expose the tyranny of the elites for all you are are worth to everyone you care about.

The IMF lives in total fear of Zero Hedge,top job Tyler.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 01:54 | Link to Comment All Risk No Reward
All Risk No Reward's picture

Ending Debt Money Tyranny is a gimme.

Calling the Fed out for their criminal credit bubble blowing...

Laws that apply to oligarch control mechanisms need to have penalties.

This isn't random.  This is a debt money Art of War operation to end national sovereignty and transfer to the Biggest Finance Capital controlled multi-national corporations.

Think of it as an improved iteration of the Death Star - the Debt Star.  It implodes the entire world's economy while leaving the planet and it assets basically standing.

The Death Star destroys all the wealth so nobody gets it.  The Debt Star transfers all the wealth into the hands of the Debt Money Tyrants.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 03:22 | Link to Comment mt paul
mt paul's picture

If the IMF wants to play with the big boys

they should get a Zero Hedge account 


and show up for fight club ..

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:35 | Link to Comment bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

Predatory lending. 

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:38 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

...we're proposing more like 75% to start.


And the size and scope of government is just perfect...or perhaps not large enough - one or the other, we'll get back to you on that. No more questions please.


Now...where's my gala luncheon?

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

Yep-  ZH is "wrong" only in the sense of understating the impact-  they'll take this as leaway to go for 75 or 80%.....

Sun, 12/15/2013 - 14:01 | Link to Comment Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

They take 100% of our earnings and then "loan" us back 25% with interest (inflation) of freshly printed fiat.

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