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The IMF Disagrees With Zero Hedge
On Thursday, after we presented an article by Simon Black in which the author suggested that the IMF was implicitly proposing a 71% tax-rate on Americans, by "suggesting that the US government could maximize its tax revenue by increasing tax brackets to as high as 71%", the IMF took offense to this characterization, and tweeted out the following:
@zerohedge is wrong: IMF does not propose a 71% income tax.
— IMF (@IMFNews) December 13, 2013
Naturally, the IMF has a right to its opinion, be it retroactive revisionism, or proactive humorous predictions about the future, which incidentally we have charted in the past showing just how "accurate" the IMF's forecasting track record has been in recent years...
... but since the topic of taxation, be it on wealth (something we warned about in September 2011, which as depositors in Cyprus banks learned about the hard way in March of this year), or income, is far less humorous, we leave it up to readers to decide just what the IMF is "proposing", using only the IMF's own words.
Below we present the key passage from the IMF's October 2013 Fiscal Monitor report titled "Taxing Times."
Whether those with the highest incomes could or should pay more has become a contentious political issue in many countries. Several, given large consolidation needs, have bucked the decades-long trend by increasing top personal income tax rates quite substantially: since 2008, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, and the United Kingdom have all done so, on average by more than 8 percentage points.
Assessing whether there is untapped revenue potential at the top of the income distribution requires comparing today’s top marginal income tax rate with the marginal tax rate that would maximize the amount of tax paid by top income earners. The latter depends on two things: first, how responsive their taxable income is to that marginal rate—which in turn depends on both “real” decisions (on labor supply efforts and the like) and “paper” avoidance activities; and second, the distribution of income within that upper group. Ranges of revenue-maximizing top income tax rates can be calculated by combining existing estimates of the elasticity of taxable income with the data on income distribution used above. The average is about 60 percent. In several cases, current top marginal rates are toward the lower end of the range (Figure 17), implying that it might indeed be possible to raise more from those with the highest incomes.
How much more? The implied revenue gain if top rates on only the top 1 percent were returned to their levels in the 1980s averages about 0.20 percent of GDP (Figure 18), but the gain could in some cases, such as that of the United States, be more significant. This would not make much of a dent in aggregate inequality, for which, if that is the objective, more dramatic change would be needed.
Figure 17:
Furthermore, here is additional commentary from the WSJ dated December 3, 2013 with "The Coming Global Wealth Tax", preceding our article if picking up where we left off in September 2011, and curiously a piece the IMF had no problems with:
What the IMF calls "revenue-maximizing top income tax rates" may be a good indication of how much further those rates could rise: As the IMF calculates, the average revenue-maximizing rate for the main Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development countries is around 60%, way above existing levels.
For the U.S., it is 56% to 71%—far more than the current 45% paid in federal, state and local taxes by those in the top tax bracket. The IMF singles out the U.S. as the country where raising top rates toward 70% (where they were before the Reagan tax cuts) would yield the most revenue—around 1.25% of GDP. And with a chilling candor, the IMF admits that its revenue-maximizing approach takes no account of the well-being of top earners (or their businesses).
...
Of course these measures won't return the world's top economies to sustainable levels of debt. That could be achieved only through significant economic growth (the good way) or, as the IMF puts it, "by repudiating public debt or inflating it away" (the bad way). In October the IMF floated a bold idea that didn't get the attention it deserved: lowering sovereign debt levels through a one-off tax on private wealth.
As applied to the euro zone, the IMF claims that a 10% levy on households' positive net worth would bring public debt levels back to pre-financial crisis levels. Such a tax sounds crazy, but recall what happened in euro-zone country Cyprus this year: Holders of bank accounts larger than 100,000 euros had to incur losses of up to 100% on their savings above that threshold, in order to "bail-in" the bankrupt Mediterranean state. Japanese households, sitting on one of the world's largest pools of savings, have particular reason to worry about their assets: At 240% of GDP, their country's public debt ratio is more than twice that of Cyprus when it defaulted.
...
From New York to London, Paris and beyond, powerful economic players are deciding that with an ever-deteriorating global fiscal outlook, conventional levels and methods of taxation will no longer suffice. That makes weapons of mass wealth destruction—such as the IMF's one-off capital levy, Cyprus's bank deposit confiscation, or outright sovereign defaults—likelier by the day.
Indeed, here is the IMF on the prospect of a "one-off" financial asset tax:
A One-Off Capital Levy?
The sharp deterioration of the public finances in many countries has revived interest in a “capital levy”— a one-off tax on private wealth—as an exceptional measure to restore debt sustainability. The appeal is that such a tax, if it is implemented before avoidance is possible and there is a belief that it will never be repeated, does not distort behavior (and may be seen by some as fair). There have been illustrious supporters, including Pigou, Ricardo, Schumpeter, and—until he changed his mind—Keynes. The conditions for success are strong, but also need to be weighed against the risks of the alternatives, which include repudiating public debt or inflating it away (these, in turn, are a particular form of wealth tax—on bondholders—that also falls on nonresidents).
There is a surprisingly large amount of experience to draw on, as such levies were widely adopted in Europe after World War I and in Germany and Japan after World War II. Reviewed in Eichengreen (1990), this experience suggests that more notable than any loss of credibility was a simple failure to achieve debt reduction, largely because the delay in introduction gave space for extensive avoidance and capital flight—in turn spurring inflation.
The tax rates needed to bring down public debt to precrisis levels, moreover, are sizable: reducing debt ratios to end-2007 levels would require (for a sample of 15 euro area countries) a tax rate of about 10 percent on households with positive net wealth
... which promptly resulted in this "IMF Statement on Taxation" clarification.
So is Zero Hedge wrong as the IMF broadly trumpets? We'll let readers decide. However, we just wanted to set the record straight - after all the last thing we want is for the IMF to admit it is wrong once again as it did in early 2013 with the whole "fiscal multipliers" fiasco (about which incidentally the IMF would be absolutely correct if instead of "austerity" the IMF were to use the proper term in its calculations: "corruption, gross government incompetence and epic capital misallocation").
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Did the IMF note this part?.... http://www.nber.org/papers/w3096 (my highlight)
The only successful levies occur in cases like post-World War II Japan, where important elements of the democratic process are suppressed and where the fact that the levy was imposed by an outside power minimized the negative impact on the reputation of subsequent sovereign governments
"They made me do it!"
Love the denial from the IMF.
Now the IMF is just another useless world organization but I am sure their statement will hold up in a court of international chart because those of us in the real world look at the graph and clearly see that the top of the bar is higher than 70%. However these fucking useless spokespersons for these fucking useless organizations will say our statement is "IMF does not propose a 71% income tax" and then they will furnish the numbers which will show that the top range is 70.987% or 71.0003% or 72.67% but you can be sure it is not exactly 71%.
Fuck the IMF
Fuck taxes
Yes, as usual M comes to some parties a bit late. I picked up this thread after the satoshi comments over in "Prison System".
Just checked out a bit of the IMF website. Good to see they employ part time proof readers and keep their narrative up to date.
Look at this, http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2011/new030411a.htm
where paragraph 7 and 8 state, and I paste,
"“It means we will have the top 10 shareholders that really represent the top 10 countries in the world, namely the United States, Japan, the four main European countries, and the four BRICs,” Strauss-Kahn said.
"The term “BRICS” collectively refer to Brazil, Russia, India, and China."
Now, the membership of (S) South Africa may or may not have been current at the time of writing. But there are now 5 BRICS countries.
Please Keep Up, IMF!!!
(M wondering when the correction might appear)
I think it's a good idea to tax higher earners at higher rates but it sure will never solve government debt problems.
Seeking justice rather than pursuing productive ventures is a big waste of time. If we spent more time building quality sustainable lives for ourselves rather than chasing the golden calf they put out there for us, they would have no power. Their solution is always for us to empower them to take wealth from others to pay for the common good, which just incidentally is them.
Awh push the head to the speed of pain.
The IMF reckons with the faceless pseudonymous wolf pack horde as a snarling zerohedge singularity.
IMF prepares 71% tax to welcome the Ukrainian people.
Fuck You Goldman Sachs.
I can't wait for the headline: "The entire US mainstream media disagrees with zerohedge"
If you like your current income tax rate you can keep your current income tax rate.
+1 I never get tired of the meme. he he
http://www.imf.org/external/about/quotas.htm
Time to reply Lagarde. Do you want me to post the 2014 currency allocations for your SDR? Has Bitcoin become a competing rivalry to the IMF business interest?
FarseBook ZH your position, Largarde. Have a great day…
Great move! This is the best promotion for Zero Hedge!
IMF new tactics: It is better to appear unreliable than to let people understand that you serve specific interests
http://failedevolution.blogspot.gr/2013/02/imf-new-tactics-it-is-better-...
Tick tock tick tock IMF motherfuckers...
The time for revolution is near...
"Poor, wretched, and stupid peoples, nations determined on your own misfortune and blind to your own good! You let yourselves be deprived before your own eyes of the best part of your revenues; your fields are plundered, your homes robbed, your family heirlooms taken away. You live in such a way that you cannot claim a single thing as your own; and it would seem that you consider yourselves lucky to be loaned your property, your families, and your very lives. All this havoc, this misfortune, this ruin, descends upon you not from alien foes, but from the one enemy whom you yourselves render as powerful as he is, for whom you go bravely to war, for whose greatness you do not refuse to offer your own bodies unto death. He who thus domineers over you has only two eyes, only two hands, only one body, no more than is possessed by the least man among the infinite numbers dwelling in your cities; he has indeed nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you.
Where has he acquired enough eyes to spy upon you, if you do not provide them yourselves? How can he have so many arms to beat you with, if he does not borrow them from you? The feet that trample down your cities, where does he get them if they are not your own? How does he have any power over you except through you? How would he dare assail you if he had no cooperation from you? What could he do to you if you yourselves did not connive with the thief who plunders you, if you were not accomplices of the murderer who kills you, if you were not traitors to yourselves? You sow your crops in order that he may ravage them, you install and furnish your homes to give him goods to pillage; you rear your daughters that he may gratify his lust; you bring up your children in order that he may confer upon them the greatest privilege he knows — to be led into his battles, to be delivered to butchery, to be made the servants of his greed and the instruments of his vengeance; you yield your bodies unto hard labour in order that he may indulge in his delights and wallow in his filthy pleasures; you weaken yourselves in order to make him the stronger and the mightier to hold you in check.
From all these indignities, such as the very beasts of the field would not endure, you can deliver yourselves if you try, not by taking action, but merely by willing to be free. Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.
Etienne De La Boetie. 1552.
+1
Every time I feel inclined on making a discretionary purchase, I think of that text, and buy gold instead.
Start here and save your shiny: http://files.libertyfund.org/files/2549/Boetie_Servitude1552.pdf
Of course not; what they want is more than 71%. What a bunch of parasites.
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
So that's why they are pushing the stock markets up! Fattening the cattle before the slaughter..
I love you, Tyler Durden.
Zerohedge was lying. The numbers were there, but your interpretation distorted the statement by the IMF, and additionally was incorrect in its implications. What you posted shows the IMF stated that 71% marginal rates might be revenue maximizing. Your statement that the IMF wants you to pay a 71% income tax misses two key points. First the IMF did not suggest a course of action, merely an analysis of what would maximize revenue. In addition you changed their marginal tax rate into an effective tax rate, which is a massive difference.
Great, so you swagger forth as Mr Bold denier of thread consensus and glance sidelong at the mirror to see if you look brave and non conformist.
Except that the only mention of anything marginal or effective was this snippet, in which the word "bracket" appears -- which is marginal.
For the US, it is 56% to 71%—far more than the current 45% paid in federal, state and local taxes by those in the top tax bracket . . .
So it turns out you're wrong. Not TD.
juggalo - your 15 seconds of fame on the now infamous ZH ?
Ok we'll give it to you...Now fuck off.....read before you snipe your tripe.
The excerpt which TD bolded referred to "top marginal income tax rate with the marginal tax rate that would maximize the amount of tax paid by top income earners." It seems clear the IMF is referring to a marginal rate. You even seem to agree that the excerpt contains a reference to the marginal rate. Can you please clarify what your conflict with my position is?
No. You are not worth the time and energy. You serve to distract from the point that the IMF is taking ZH seriously...and they need to.
Looking forward to the total destruction of the Fraudulent World Currency System so that shills as yourself will starve.
Starve the Beast. Collapse baby collapse. THERE ARE NO POLITICAL SOLUTIONS.
Is that you Christine?
LOL
Easy on the spray tan honey
Can we pull that Santa Claus hat to blind your vision?
Press Briefing by Gerry Rice, Director, IMF Communications Department |December 12, 2013
@ Juggalo1
Christine, is that you?
Hey Christine. I know you're reading this:
You are one ugly, incompetent cunt.
The USA statist has used gradualism as a successful strategy. Welcome to the quickening.
Fuck YOU, Legarde, you mummified cunt!
Big Fish now. I think this site just made it onto a few (additional) watch lists and every poster on here is now being watched by the IMF, World Bank, Jewish Internet Defense Force (Hasbara) and affiliates. Gotta keep us Goy sheeple under watch and wraps. Banks! Banks! Banks! How will they ever survive without control over interest and money supply, and through it control over politics and the media?
And when I get paid $100 I enjoy only receiving $29 of those dollars while the rest of it goes to Shaniqua's Escalade and toward fighting WAAAGH for the Internationalist Bankers. Fuck You Evil Cunts!
Glad to see the Hasbara shitbag came through and -1'ed everyone's comments down the list. Ooooo I'm so scared now, I got a minus one!
If I were rich (in some ways I am but not finanically) I would have half my wealth in silver gold copper and just deal with my local coin shop and local characters on craigslist and in that way throw sheet at the tax collectives
The IMF - and most other unelected International Institutions - are stuffed full of jobs for the boys.
When the IMF deny tabling a proposal for heavily indebted governments to impose an across the board 10% flat tax on all bank accounts to help fund out-of-control state spending which governments are all addicted to, then we'll know they have no respect for honesty and truth.
And WHO nicks from the GOVERNMENT COFFERS???????
Is it maybe Politicos and their Friends ?
http://portugalresident.com/german-submarines-scandal-goes-to-court
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=submarine+scandal+greece&client=firefo...
or is it the INCORRUPTABLE Gerries????
Wow... the big time.
Now back to random shootings, Bitcoin squabbles, and tomorrow's news today.
No Tax On Anyone's EARNED Income
1% Wall Street sales tax on HFT and all derivatives. Investors who buy and hold equities are exempt.
Wall Street, Jamie & Lloyd et al caused the crash... Jamie & Lloyd pay to fix it...
Because this is what happens when you fuck a stranger in the ass, Jamie...
Your income is your private property, not taxable. You received no Federal privilege to earn it, unless you are a federal employee or bankster douche bag. Then you pay income tax.
Idle wealth like the treasonous worm... wait what's the polite term.... oh yeah.... treasonous worm David Rockefeller are always taxed annually.
Now, this is ZeroHedge. Shutting the IMF up...
Keep the squabbles, your bitcoins and stacking, bitchez!
Alls I wanna know is where the damned Pulitzers?
C'mon, man!
:D
No one gives a fuck about Pulitzers anymore because it is controlled by the state. You are still so god damned mainstream Orly.
Manip -
Hmmm... nasty mofos here... 2 down arrows.... hehe. Couldn't be Manip.
Oh when the saints learn to count...that'll be the day the IMF wil be out of a job.
Oh when the Saints...
Pulitzer prizes are like meeting Marilyn in real life, once you get it you're lost forever, you produce nothing new you even regress; living in nostalgia. But some like it hot and ZH is on heat when to comes to taking the IMF pulse.
Troika Troika Troika....or is it Tora Tora Tora!
If I was going to red arrow you I would have mentioned it. Sometimes I deserve red arrows so I just walk on. When the reds and the greens are near to equal, that means I have hit a nerve.
Ideally ZH becomes the Main Stream and the Main Stream becomes the Fringe.
At that point the tide turns in OUR FAVOR...for a GOOD CHANGE.
A quick scan down the comments and it looks like one of the "-1" trolls has climbed aboard...
Washington Cuntsensus.
Politicians should work for free since they are already stealing from the Public.
Remember space monkeys. Turbo Timmah cheated via undeclared 2002 income earned at the International Monetary Fund. He was later approved to be the guy in charge of the U.S. IRS. There are many people that went to prison under the agency he ran.
I hope they do read my occasional comment and are shitting the bed. Good time to start investing in depends
Lagarde, talk to the palm of my hand.
http://www.imf.org/external/np/sta/ed/joint.htm
http://www.jedh.org/
http://www.jedh.org/jedh_calendar.html
I guess that says a lot about ZH if the IMF is not only reading them but responding to their posts!
Go ZH!
IMF denying it's own words.....must be true!
LOL... someone is getting fired by the IMF today, "You're not supposed to poke the crazies!!"
The IMF and the rest of the Democrats, gun grabbing fools, genocide liberals, and global warming kooks, are a bunch of evil communist fascist.
So let me get this straight. The IMF thinks that the 1.25% increase in revenue say on $17 trillion is going to make a difference? This amounts to roughly $200 billion which on the surface would decrease the annual deficit from say $700 billion to $500 billion. But when one factors in normalized interest rates of say, god forbid, a 100 basis point increase this would translate into increased interest expense on the federal deficit of $170 billion. Basically a push. Further, when the government truly has to start on-boarding the $100 trillion of "off balance sheet" debts lets just say at a minimum of 25 basis points per year (very optimistic), this amounts to $250 billion. Further, does the IMF not factor in the impact of capital flight, wealth moving underground as tax rates increase, etc., etc., etc.
Even if the IMF's proposal was actually accepted and implemented, it would be like filing one hole of the leaking dam when three other new holes are springing up. I'm not sure what they're smoking at the IMF but what they fail to have any grasp on what so ever is the concept of DEBT!. That is, there is just too much of it without adequate collateral and cash flow to service it. No model they can dream up is ever going to solve an excessive debt problem other than massive defaults and restructuring.
What people need to understand is that when the primary assets supporting the debt face value are impaired (in this case, the actual collateral value or the cash flow available to service the debt), then the debt holders will look to secondary repayment sources to service the debt. To date, this has been one single source - The World's Central Banks! Now with this strategy failing, the soverigns will turn to whatever secondary repayment sources are left which is where we're at - Wealth Confiscation!
In 2010/2011, I figured the options were simple to resolve the debt problem. Inflate or Default. At that point, I thought the CB's had an opportunity to inflate their way out of this mess but I'm affraid this window has come and gone. I now am a firm believer that the debt problems are so large that a massive debt default and deflationary economic collapse are now just a matter of time and pressure. Will it be 2014, 2016, 2018, 2020? - well I'm not sure but with debt loads building again at just above every level (personal, corporate, and government), and most of the asset values supporting this debt centered in financial paper, eventually the simply laws of gravity will take hold.
That is one excellent analysis, delivered. In my own ongoing, ever-observant mode, I am seeing a growing trend/"sense" that debt default on a wide scale may be forthcoming soon. (Imminently, perhaps, with this Obamascare fiasco?)
Younger people with their student loan debt and shit jobs, small businesses that are just about out of rabbits to pull out of their hats to remain viable, middle class folks who are increasingly seeing more days left in the month than money ... one and all show signs of fatigue and fuck it attitudes.
Don't know just how or when this will all play out, but I think it will be bad and sooner rather than later.
Betwen 1936 and 1981, the top income tax bracket in the US was always 70% or higher, see for example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States
A tax rate of 91% on earnings above $200,000 (equivalent to 2.3 million today) was in effect between 1946 and 1964. This coincided with the post-war boom and did not seem to be a hindrance to economic growth at the time. If this was in effect today, it would mean that a hedge-fund manager earning $1 billion would effectively be left with less than $92 million after tax.
One way or another, top earners do seem to be paying far too little tax, a fact that even some very rich people have acknowledged - including Warren Buffett.
However, rather than increasing income taxes, an interesting and maybe economically more useful alternative would be a (very significant) increase of estate taxes.
The message of this would be: "Go ahead and get as rich as you can, but when you die, most of your riches revert to society which, after all, made it possible for you to get rich in the first place."
By giving away the bulk of their fortunes, Warren Buffett and Bill Gates may actually be showing the way to a possible future.
By using corporatism to exact disporportionate tax from the labor of their own personal secretaries, in lieu of fair corporate taxation, they have denied dignified people the somewhat less megar life they could have had while still in the mortal coil.
Slavery never went away. It just got more sophisticated.
Why again should we be taxing the suppliers of everything we buy? Why not just tax our government as they are the only growing industry left? While I support a sales tax only approach, if we are going to tax income, do that, not tax the machine that produces the income. It just seems counter productive (even more so than income taxes) and leaves our businesses at a huge disadvantage internationally. Further it feed more into divisiveness that the "taxers" use against us. Raise taxes on business, while attacking them for leaving the country in order to compete, while creating "gifts" to enhance the competitiveness of the chosen few corporations that happen to ideologically align with them.
Well in academic circles we can get back to wnoise's comment. Tax LLMs will tell you that the inheriter of all advancement (technological, automation, art, music, etc.) is bequethed from the individuals who contributed it ,(and died) to the state upon their death. Keynsianism 101. If you need a visual, watch the end of an old movie called indiana jones and the raiders of the lost ark.
So, it ultimately always belonged to the state.. They simply allowed us to rent it in exchange for our labors and return it upon death? It has always been my understanding and belief that the reason for modern economic growth was largely attributed to the right to property ownership. Is that A lie? We don't actually OWN anything? They just want us to believe we own it to incentivize us to work for the potential of ownership? Is honesty not a possibility in governing? If I own something, I have the right to give it to anyone. The only way they can tell me I cannot, is if it is not mine to give.
my gig is really simple. The idea that Timmah sent rent-a-cops out to enforce the tax code is way too much drama for me. They should atleast be logically consistant.
More academically, you'd have to look at the people who think they allowed 'merica to have 'mericans, and what not. At the detriment of the people who happened to be here before. And how much rent is owed.
You both understand. Welcome to our world. No new technology will appear until we take down the Marxist monopoly first. You slowly bleed off their profits. They continue to ask for taxpayer subsidy until the company goes under. This is how you take out a monopoly that restricts free Capitalism creation.
New talking points for this week in financial world. Winks.
who is tyler durden?
A soap salesman :-)
Haven't you noticed that you are commited to be Tyler yourself?!
Please! Buffet and Gates have put huge assets into trusts that they and their families will continue to control, tax free, for generations to come. And unless we can talk about actual rates, after deductions and loopholes, percentages are meaningless. And above all things, why do you believe ANYONE has a right to another's property, as long as it is not stolen or otherwise obtained through devious means.
"Betwen 1936 and 1981, the top income tax bracket in the US was always 70% or higher, see for example:" A tax rate of 91% on earnings above $200,000 (equivalent to 2.3 million today) was in effect between 1946 and 1964. This coincided with the post-war boom and did not seem to be a hindrance to economic growth at the time.
You stoopid fuck. Do some research, no body paid the 70 to 91 % rate because of tax loopholes and dodges. When Kennedy cut the tax rates to 50's% (and closed most of the loopholes) the tax revenue increased substantially.
You must be a senior fellow at the IMF.... feckin' dumkoff.
This is Marxist non-sense. Hardly anyone paid an effective top rate of 91%. This was a means to force money in other directions. But 91% taxation is legalized theft, PERIOD. If this were in effect today a hedge fund manager earning a billion would not be taxed at that rate. They would be taxed at the current capital gains rate because we don't do double taxation, at least on the surface. EARNED INCOME IS DIFFERENT THAN CAPITAL GAINS INVESTMENTS! This is an inconvenient truth for people who think other peoples money belong to them.
Warren fucking Buffet, who put these idiotic ideas in your simpleton head magically profited from the dissolution of the Keystone Pipeline after buying up rail lines that would have to haul oil in stead of a much safer pipeline. He told you that his secretary payed a higher tax rate than him and you took the bait hook line and sinker. He didn't tell you that he has no earned income. That his rate is the current capital gains rate. MONEY THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN TAXED.
Fuck you and your fucking estate tax. THAT'S NOT YOUR MONEY YOU FUCKING THIEF.
And yes, Warren and Bill are showing the way to the future, a future with a small number of very wealthy, very powerful elite and the rest of as surfs. They are steady closing doors so no one else can come through and you are a witless hap helping them.
"However, rather than increasing income taxes, an interesting and maybe economically more useful alternative would be a (very significant) increase of estate taxes."
Right, so that the fruits of my labor could be divided equally between my kids and your kids when I die. If you can even stand to consider that idea for a moment, then ...well, I pity where you are at and think you're in the wrong country. Wait a bit - what country are you in?
Do you need someone to explain to your kids why it is bad to be a parasitic sloth? And why families should take a back seat to collectives of sheeple?
Another useful alternative would be castration for those coveting other people's productivity.
OT
The NSA opens it's doors to 60 Minutes tonight. I might be sleeping or jerking off so post the lowlights and your feedback here.
trying to unring a bell. fukem
60 minutes is a fucking joke. They were caught red handed with a lying source during their Benghazi "investigation". Said source had recently published a book at Simon & Schuster (also a CBS company), and they expect everyone to believe it wasn't intentional.
Makes you wonder about their Seal Team 6 "investigation" too, given that whole story was bullshit too.
The US would not need to raise marginal rates if we would just tax capital gains exactly like ordinary income. In fact, if we do it in a revenue neutral way, I expect all marginal rates could come down.
Yes, what this country needs, obviousy, is a huge tax increase. That would certainly solve the problem. As history has repeatedly shown.
fuck you IMF!
all of you are criminal scum
A better idea, and cheaper too, would be for the u.s. to apply some austerity to the imf by de-funding it.
IMF ... fuck off!
This is a fight club!
(Bloody mainstraimization)
IMF
should get an account
and come to fight club ..
put up , or shut up ..
OF THE NOBEL PRIZE IN ECONOMICS JOE STIGLITZ: IMF same exact four-step program
IMF same exact four-step program:
1.0 Privatization 'Briberization.'
2.0 IMF/World Bank capital market deregulation allows investment capital to flow in and out the "Hot Money" cycle.
3.0 Market-Based Pricing, a fancy term for raising prices on food, water and cooking gas
4.0 IMF and World Bank call their "poverty reduction strategy": Free Trade- "The IMF riot."
http://www.gregpalast.com/the-globalizer-who-came-in-from-the-cold/
Stiglitz Wins Moynihan Prize for Research on Income Inequality13 December 2013, by Michelle Jamrisko (Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/print/2013-12-13/stiglitz-wins-moynihan-prize-for-research-on-income-inequality.html
The IMF exposes its own dishonesty by posting pathetic tweets accusing ZH of making a false allegation. But there was nothing untrue in the ZH article. Its repost of Simon Black's article very clearly referred to the 71% tax rate as being a "bracket" aka a marginal rate, not a flat rate as the IMF now wants people to think.
If Madame Lagarde and her IMF want to know why huge numbers of people around the world have lost all trust in their governments and international institutions like the IMF, they need only look at their own rank dishonesty.
IMF :: "LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE"
"the elasticity of taxable income"
Just how divorced from reality are you people? Remind me again to what end my taxes are being used and how they benefit me. Go ahead and admit why I'm frozen to mobility and robbed of my time to do better things than pay interest on debt that isnt even mine. Keep pushing and you'll see the limits of that elasticity.
I got to shoot one of these today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.338_Lapua_Magnum
Is that off topic?
no.
Technically they are correct. The IMF wants to take 71% of all your assets, so technically it's not an income tax, it's an everything tax.
roll the motherfucking guillotines, nothing changes otherwise.
'...the IMF would be absolutely correct if instead of "austerity" the IMF were to use the proper term in its calculations: "corruption, gross government incompetence and epic capital misallocation").'
This reposte is a thing of beauty. Well done.
Notice how almost every comment in this thread has at least one vote down on it? Sorry, can't get the imagine of that bitter bitch Lagarde in her bathrobe, hair in rollers, with a scowl on her face, sitting at her computer at home feverishly clicking the down arrow on every comment...
Yes, noticed.
we would not be so lucky. she probably has somebody read it for her.
we are just victims of a random drive-by khazar downvote.
Since we now know you're reading, Fuck you IMF!
don't be sucked in by this patent false flag.
by directing attention to a tax rate, the imf is deflecting attention from the correct response of cutting waste in government departments and to abolish benefits to those who simply take free hand-outs because they are there. These benefit cheats include their own womanizing, tax dodging, "favours for friends of the IMF with your taxes" and racist organization...even the non-white europeans are nothing more than privileged slaves.
cutting Government spending would of course need to start with the corrupt institutions like the IMF, corrupt because they know they do not benefit any country with other peoples money.
just saying
You can't have an effective corruption unless people are getting something for nothing, or at least think they are. Just a cost of doing business. Government of any kind cannot reduce their size and power for to do so would be an admission that they were not needed in the first place. This is a concept that cannot be allowed to stand, not for one moment. They instead will privatize and outsource their functions to create the illusion that that they are smaller and more efficient, but regardless of who you work for, the only thing that matters is who writes the check. We know the corruption exists. It always has. The question is how big, what percentage of the economy do they control directly and indirectly? I think we know they answer to that. They control it all. Even illegal drug trade is influenced by their policies. Every fucking thing has their hands on it. They are so deep into it now that even if we eliminated all taxation, they would still have huge control, and they are not letting go. Even the slightest budget shortfall results in teachers and firemen being laid off. They got us by the gonads. They are just laughing at us now, with our meager protestations. We dare not yell too loud as we wouldn't want to piss anyone off. Our future depends upon them. That's why we are here bitching anonymously. Its why we bitch at our spouse about work rather than our boss.
"We wouldn't propose the the pols and crats steal more to feed us banksters. No way, no how, cross our heart." LOL
"Banksters, just what guillotines like to eat."
Bankers got what Guillotines crave.
... I'm guillotine-immune, J. Yelen says. "Too short."
Bada bing!
@ZH: Time for IMF revelations....following confirmation of IMF readership
Well done ZH!
How about making the corporations pay tax instead of them paying to get laws and loopholes put in place so they pay very little
@ Racer
The debt of the U.SS.A has doubled in twelve years under the G.W. Bush and B.(O?)bama administrations. The 'Bush #43`Tax Cuts' (during war`time?) had already (?accumulation?) cost the US Treasury revenues of ~ $1.7 Tn. as of Jan/07, accounting for ~ 4% of GDP @ ~$15Tn!
Please realize that before 9/11 the U.S. DOD and State Dept. were planning a pre-emptive strike on Iraq!!! The 9/11 strike just gave the adm. the opportunity of a lifetime to roll both 9/11 and Iraq into one neat package! Why??? Cheney, Rumsfeld/ Wolfowitz and Bush#43 wanted it, Period!!!
Believe it or not,... al Qaeda became the lesser of their (the Cold War NeoCon's) concern(s)! Remember when Cheney had the SCOTUS seal the names and corporations at a secretely held meeting at the WH? Could the Cold-War NeoCon's actually been in cahoots with Saudi Arabia's Bandar & Co.? Only time will tell???
Now, getting back to corporations! Just recently congress slapped itself-on-the-back (both houses) for a job well done, postponing another gov't crisis over lack-of-funds? But, it is what was left out by MSM that should raise some fiscal hawk eyebrows-- not one word of raising corporate taxes, but... even implicitly suggesting that they should be lowered!!!
Ref: "Nonpartisan budget analysis says Bush hid true cost of wars" (The return of 'fuzzy math'?) 12/16/08 http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Bushs_fuzzy_math_masked_true_cost_1216.html
"The $1 Trillion Bill for Bush's War on Terror" 12/26/08 http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1868367,00.html
and lastly,... "How Much Did the Bush Tax Cuts Cost in Forgone Revenue?" 5/26/10 http://taxfoundation.org/article/how-much-did-bush-tax-cuts-cost-forgone-revenue
Finally. Obama is just carrying GW's water with the same people behind the scenes, but with different 'Cold War' agenda's for 'AIPAC and SA', as it has become abundantly clear over their 'Coming-Out Party"!?!
Grats Tyler, for calling-out the broken ($$$) IMF, whose #1's contributer (source of revenue) is near broke!!!
No disrespect intended, but corporations, businesses, do not pay taxes. The final consumer of what ever they produce does.
world financial system notifications: the most reliable indicator you are being taken seriously and are considered to be a credible threat to worldwide financial system profitability and/or stability.
Taxation is an outmoded concept. These days governments simply print wealth.
Everyone, it is not only Tyler that has the IMF's attention -- by extension, so do we. Will you shrink in fear or will you stand your ground? Will you do what the greatest generation did and stand up to the new fascist Nazis? My grandfather did and he was one tough SOB. That is the charge to us. Not for no stinking Marxist in the white house but for your children, nieces, and nephews.
Bravo Tyler.
Everyone spread the news.
Tyler, start backup servers in other nations and make sure you have alternate DNS names.
In that case, "Let me be clear" - roll the motherfucking guillotines, nothing changes otherwise...
What you get when you cross Janet Yellen and Christine Lagarde - SPAWN
I've been around here a while now and have read counless articles and nearly always read the comments also. I gotta say this is hands down the best fucking thing I have ever witnessed here. Thank you Tylers and the rest of you mooks for letting me sit around the campfire with ya's
It makes me wonder why the IMF reads Zerohedge. Could it be.. truth?
Far more likely is that some tax-funded office lackey is tasked with a periodic search of IMF-related terms (like "IMF") across social media platforms - or (more likely) perusing an RSS feed that aggregates
If I was designing such a 'social media monitoring script', it would sort Twitter mentions of IMF by the number of Twitter followers - to get some idea of the likelihood that a given tweet would have an impact outside of a narrow group.
Then, some other tax-feeding shithead gets to write response tweets, and the some script-based sockpuppets RT it.
It's not true until it's been denied officially :). So there you have it.
If you see a User Name of "Daily Cologne Bath" Or "Hairy Pits"...this might be the IMF's French Whore on ZH..
I wouldn't trust a single word that come out of the World Bank, IMF, Federal Reserve, BIS they are all Pathalogical Liars and Crimimals. They are all controlled by the same Banking Family. As for that witch LaGarde, I would sooner take the word of Richard Milhouse Nixon any day of the week.
Comments tl;dr, in the end it is already almost 1 am over here, but please help me understand
This is an official denial by the IMF, so doesn't that make the 71% tax rate a done deal?
Off topic but NOW THEY ARE CONSIDERING OFFERING AMNESTY FOR SNOWDEN IF HE JUST HANDS OVER THE UNPUBLISHED DATA.
They were ready to Drone him,waterboard him and castrate him.And now they are being nice?
MAKES YA WONDER WHAT HE'S GOT THAT THEY WANT SOOOO BADLY Hmmm....
and that comes with a free mercedes
.
...equipped with the oak tree homing, high speed automatic guidance system.
I think IMF employees should pay taxes to all jurisdictions that they operate in. Thinking it would amount to 3,976% tax. Pay up IMF bitchez!
Congratulations ZH.
It's been a shitty year for the entire planet thanks to the IMF and the CB community. But the fact that you managed to corner them and brought them out of their winter den was the best early Christmas gift I could have received.
A memorable milestone to enjoy. Keep up the great work that you do!
Looks like the preponderence of the evidence supports ZH
It's called a Spears "one time" tax. Think Britney Spears... oops I did it again.
By their silence to this point, it's clear they have agreed with everything else.
It's a spending not a revenue problem.... Fucking gov't sociopaths
If we didn't spend so much
we wouldn't need higher taxes.
And speaking of "accurate economic forecasting" a large piece of academic research in Denmark has just shown that over the last 47 years of economic progrostications (including from the OECD) about the Danish economy, the economists managed to get it wrong 174 times out of 179.
Unfortunately, most of you probaly won't be able to decipher the article ...
http://www.information.dk/databloggen/480727
That's Ok.
The last time anyone understood the Danes was when they carried broadswords.
Hey Christine, if you were hotter and younger I would let you work the street for me.
You could still let her do it for you if you need a tax writeoff.
Lack of success for such actions in the past was due to delays which lead to extensive avoidance actions.......
Well if 2008 and everything since hasnt woken you up, then you are truly going to be screwed. Part of the reason for the sub par economic performance since 2008 can, i believe, be put down to the "reallocations and readjustments" that the wise ones have been making.
Everyone can do SOMETHING to protect themselves.....look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself have you done ENOUGH ?
Congrats, Tyler, you have their attention. But lets hope that this isn't a sign that the collapse is just around the corner (say within the next six months). When a website such as ZH has the elites this nervous, things must be really getting bad.
BTW, it appears that the IMF removed that tweet. I don't see it on their Twitter feed.
I was wandering around the internet the other day and came across a website that I would have liked to watched a show ABC or PBS I think. Anyway my government doesn't approve that I should watch those shows. They allow me to only watch what they approve of in the manner that they approve. I'm Canadian you see. So I am my government chooses what is acceptable for me to watch.
I have very sever pain in both knees elbows and back and shoulder. Now finding a family Doctor is extremely difficult because there just aren't enough so most times I have to go to a walk in clinic. Anyway with the walk in clinic I typically have to wait some 5 - 6 hours to get in to see the doctor for the most rudimentary things. They are very concerned that I may get addicted to the pain killers that are of sufficient strength to manage the pain so I do without. I really can't go anywhere or do much of anything because it hurts quite a lot. However my government knows what is best for me and is looking out for my best interest the doctors get quite upset when I suggest a stornger pain killer. The government monitors these things very closely so they suggest exercise and diet to manage the pain.
I am currently looking for a temple to worship the bureacracy. They spend so much effort monitoring me and managing everything about my life that their omnipotence should be worshipped. They feel that my living in great pain is characther building and my great difficulty in just getting to a doctor the time I should wait to see one leaves me to believe that I am infringing on using precious resources that the bureacracy can put to much better use inside the bureacracy. So it occured to me that there must be a place of worship to bureacrates. I feel that with their power and wisdom I must kneel or better yet prostrate myself in their honor. I am so dependent on their grace that it should be honored in a place of worship.
It was on the IMF website - (immediate and permanent)
IMF suggests: (USA)
35% increase in all taxes, immediately and permanently.
35% decrease in all govt checks immediately and permanently.
When I returned to their site to bring a link to a comment later on, maybe a month later, this page was no longer available.
We can settle this like adults without rancor and namecalling...
#Ask JP Morgan.
Me thinks they'll be eating that tweet
I wonder what tax bracket IMF executives currently enjoy, or would then fall into, should their own proposals be adopted?
Sounds like the IMF has been talking to the Pope.
Hey IMF Fuck You! If this phrase is played out I apologize to ZH'ers.
PS...FUCK YOU IMF BTCHEZ!
Disarm Damn You
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1acEVmnVhI
(Smashing Pumpkins w/orchestra)
Tyler just made some fresh soap out of the IMF.
Well done, Sir, well done.
I just logged in to say.............FUCK THE IMF and its "Conditionalities"!!!
This is a contingency plan for when the middle class has been sucked completely dry. This won't happen for a while though. First up is another bail-in/bail-out using our deposits and 401k's. Then the super rich will then start to eat the marginally rich. At least we can be entertained while broke.
GAS 'EM...
Chris Lagarde is pretty Handsome for a French dude...
If we all agree Lagarde is a cunt, do we get in trouble???
"First They ignore you, Then they laugh at you, Then they fight you, Then you win." (Ghandi)
Yeah, the IMF proposses a 75% income tax, get it right Tylor!
Another update on the end of the world ....
Every tick higher on the spools, hedge gets its nuts clips
"the IMF would be absolutely correct if instead of "austerity" the IMF were to use the proper term in its calculations: "corruption, gross government incompetence and epic capital misallocation")."milti
Sentence of the year IMO!
Further if the public began referring to central bankers, investment banking cartel, military opportunists, and governments desire to "raise" the quality of life of it's citizens for what it really is, an organized crime syndicate to line their pockets and wield unchecked power, we could get to the crux of financial problem which govts spending money they don't have to enrich the lives of the syndicate members at the expense of everything and everyone else.
It should, however, show the level of fear they have for the truth to be exposed that they pay attention and even respond to a "fringe blog". Maybe they will give Tyler a press credential at the next IMF meeting.
yell "the end is nigh"...then get your...nuts clipped