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Chart Of The Day: This Is What "Generational Theft" Looks Like

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Much has been said about the key aspect of the Ponzi scheme behind America's welfare state (if not enough where it matters as the three living Fed Chairmen currently joke around during the Fed's shindig on the central bank's 100th anniversary), namely that all those who have paid in money to entitlements, are entitled to benefit from entitlement distributions in the future. On paper this is absolutely correct, and in an efficient market, without capital allocation distortions this would work (ignoring that a Ponzi scheme, is, by definition, a Ponzi scheme and is reliant on ever greater inflows of money and participants or, as some may call them, suckers). More importantly, this is also fair. Sadly, as recent experiments within the Obama administration and elsewhere, most notably France, when the entire developed world has hit "peak debt" levels, the fairness doctrine no longer works, especially if and when it is enforced upon a destitute population.

Since we don't live in a paper world, one should be able to quantify the disparity between the "haves" and the "have nots" when it comes to entitlements. This is precisely what Larry Kotlikoff did in August 2013 in "How the millennial generation will pay the price of Washington's paralysis." The results, charted, show what JPM's Michael Cembalest has dubbed, accurately, "generational theft", or the difference between how much excess some Americans will have received in government benefits (the older ones), compared to how great the funding deficit is for others - mostly young Americans, those who are about to graduated from college with record amounts of student loans (on average) and those yet unborn.

Cembalest's summary:

After you graduate, the US will be in the thick of the “generational theft” issue; here’s a heads-up on what this is all about. Generational accounting is an estimate of who benefits from and who pays for government programs. As shown in the first chart, the average person in the generation that turned 65 this year received $327 thousand dollars more in lifetime government benefits than they paid in Federal taxes. On the other hand, children born in the future (e.g., yours) will have a lifetime deficit on this basis of -$421 thousand dollars. If it sounds unfair, it is.

It seems that these days few things are fair. Which is perhaps why the rulers are desperate to do everything in their power to "enforce" their idea of fairness on everyone.

 

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Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:41 | 4251339 hedgeless_horseman
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I am no technical trader, but it looks to me like therte is plenty support for Bitcoin at $200, then again around $100.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:40 | 4251349 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

Wrong thread occured?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:45 | 4251360 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Wrong thread occured?

Kinda...sorta...but not really...

Which is perhaps why the rulers are desperate to do everything in their power to "enforce" their idea of fairness on everyone.

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:52 | 4251396 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

To QEnfinity and beyond!

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:05 | 4251463 malikai
malikai's picture

$100 bitcoin would be a gift from the gods that I would rejoice.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:13 | 4251493 Transformer
Transformer's picture

This article is BS.  Average 65 year old rc'd $327K more than they paid in?  No proof or explanation is offered.  If you're talking Social Security, the congress stole $2.6 Trillion and spent on their usual fare.  Social Security would be funded for another 10-15 years at least if Congress hadn't stolen all the funds.

You see this kind of shit all the time.  It's part of the divide and conquer meme.  Turn the young people against the old.

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:18 | 4251513 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

Ugggg.  Where do I begin with this one?!?  Probably not worth our time.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:25 | 4251532 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

Regardless, I pity the people who depend on government assistance to either eat or stay warm.  They are going to die.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:39 | 4251585 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

"They are going to die."

When?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:35 | 4251825 madcows
madcows's picture

That's a question for the obama death panels... AKA Kathleen "Terminator" Sebelius

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:48 | 4252550 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Orange is a good color as they zap you then plop you on to the conveyor.

..then as a good commodity, you go green. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:03 | 4252588 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Yeah but unborn children don't vote, so it's fair... isn't it?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:10 | 4252603 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

We're 'living the dream' boys and gals...just unfortunately, its not ours.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 06:53 | 4253392 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

It's easy to steal candy from babies......cause they're really little.

 

We're not talking a high degree of difficulty here.

 

If you do it the right way.....most of them won't even notice it.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:12 | 4252609 Manthong
Manthong's picture

c'mon..  Power Rangers.. save the planet.. Ninja Reptiles to save the next generation..

Dont'cha get it? Geez, like tune in.. plug in.. absorb the surveillance.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:07 | 4252602 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Green!? As is in "Soylent Green"?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:32 | 4252635 Manthong
Manthong's picture

as Boris is might say. is big green tasty circle.. maybe is chlorophil simulated, hypothecated, synthesized circle jerk?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:19 | 4253153 yogy999
yogy999's picture

Awesome!! :-)

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:23 | 4252172 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Not soon enough.  

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:01 | 4252416 Patriot Eke
Patriot Eke's picture

When either this whole economic system collapses or a world war makes it collapsing the least of our concerns.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:26 | 4253164 scrappy
scrappy's picture

You mean our ultimate destination, Amen.

BUT NOT YET, UNFINISHED BUSINESS to attend to.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:43 | 4251599 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

"what JPM's Michael Cembalest has dubbed, accurately, "generational theft"

Which was preceded by an earlier form of theft: governmental theft.

The latter wouldn't occur without the former.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:35 | 4252688 HiHoAg
HiHoAg's picture

I got some bad news for you patriot.

Ain't none of us getting out alive...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:50 | 4252707 Manthong
Manthong's picture

hi ho.. hi ho.. keep Ag and Au you know.

We knowing one's must keep the faith..

Hi ho, Hi ho..

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:53 | 4251635 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Start with those who were responsible for SS and then go to those who won't get rid of it.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:24 | 4251539 YC2
YC2's picture

The proof and explanation, I would guess, is in the link to the 40 page report.  

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:24 | 4251793 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

but i won't be able to keep my biased opinions if i actually read the data... come on now... what fun is there in that? /sarcasm 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:53 | 4252565 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Are you trying to say that highly informative and detailed bar graph didn't prove anything?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:43 | 4251592 madcows
madcows's picture

The money the boomers paid in didn't go into some lock box for dispensation at retirement age.  It went right to the Boomer's parents.  But, there are a shitload more boomers than there are boomer parents, so the "pay-in" was rather reasonable.  It's easy for the boomer parent to live large until they died at the ripe old age of 55. 

Meanwhile, the Boomers are retiring with far fewer Gen-x-Y-millenials paying in, and are receiving benefits for 30-40 years.  Clearly, that is a problem that the Government did not want to prepare for.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:55 | 4251618 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

The SS recipients are usually quite hawkish, so give them the choice of receiving their payment and defense losing that amount, or having it applied to the defense budget and not receiving SS.

Same for the other welfare recipients.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:56 | 4251671 max2205
max2205's picture

Ben blew up 401k's by the millions 3 times in 9 years....what the fuck do you all expect....Ben...ben?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:35 | 4251828 madcows
madcows's picture

what does ben have to do with SS?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:49 | 4251615 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

This is the second time this month this falacious reasoning has been presented.  When doing these "paid in" calculations, compound interest needs to be applied at the inflation rates through all the years.  The social security accounts would have grown larger than the payouts if congress had not misappropriated funds to spend on pet programs.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:56 | 4251659 max2205
max2205's picture

moar brown people please

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:12 | 4252604 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I was under the impression that brown people are undocumented and therefore don't pay taxes/SS or they make so little(above the table) that they don't pay taxes/SS.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 23:59 | 4252932 ServingMyKing
ServingMyKing's picture

Simple, make them citizens. /sarc

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:43 | 4252703 centerline
centerline's picture

math isn't your strong suit, is it?

ever heard of a ponzi scheme?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:07 | 4251714 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

All SS ( State Sheeple ) funds go into the general fund.  There is no trust fund.  Also, no one is owed anything.  Nada.  Zip.  Zero.  SS is a plain ordinary tax.  Everything else is boob bait for sucker old gummys.

Obamacare is the same.  A plain ordinary tax with some health mumbo jumbo palaver for idiots. 

 

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:18 | 4251769 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

Transformer,

i agree, no mention of how they did these calculations...here's my numbers, i have 20+ years left till i could think of retirement and SS has stolen $200K from me...... and counting.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:22 | 4251775 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

This is bullshit! No explanation? What ass did they pull these numbers from? Most people I know will be lucky to retire at all much less at 65. Exactly how are we extracting this precious money from anyone. I know from government statements that I have paid in $250,000 or more and as far as I know have not yet received a thin pre 65 dime from them yet. Don't even get me started on my $40k/yr property taxes that I'm paying in to educate illegals and all the rest. Generational theft my ASS!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:49 | 4252723 centerline
centerline's picture

All depends on where you are on the "wave" (timing per se) I suppose.  But, really this is not about generational theft.  This is about being lied to over and over.  Centuries of bankers raping the world.  Governments run amok (we were warned by our own founding fathers of course).  Just another cycle in the grand scheme of things.

 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 05:07 | 4253314 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

This is about distractions and division. Our glorious and generous leaders have robbing us blind for years while using a cut of the take to addict citizens and illegals to to "entitlements". Now they have a society that senses the gig is about up and they are trying to focus them on anyone but the actual thieves. There is no way in hell that any generation will be able to fund the stolen money, not in real value anyway. Articles like this just annoy the shit out of me. Boomers know they were robbed and the money isn't there, but they are going to raise hell and demand it if nothing else because society does not understand actions of principle, and if we do not demand the money and make a big stink about it, it will go the way of fast and furious, IRS scandals and Benghazi. After all, "what does it matter, anyway?". This will all have to get really ugly and irrational before anyone pays attention.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:01 | 4252116 doctor10
doctor10's picture

Income tax and payroll deuctible is just too distracting for the clowncar brigade  on Capitol Hill

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:12 | 4252436 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

"Those goddamn socialists in DC and their goddamn socialist lobbyists better not mess with my monthly government check! I'm callin' the AARP, goddamn it! Hey, you kids get offa my lawn!"

If you're talking Social Security, the congress stole $2.6 Trillion and spent on their usual fare.  Social Security would be funded for another 10-15 years at least if Congress hadn't stolen all the funds.

Social Security is, and always has been, a tax. If you fell for the story that it's some kind of fund that you've paid into and that you can expect some kind of return on, well, sorry to rain on your parade but, like millions of others, you've been had.

You don't expect someday to receive a monthly check based on the amount of other taxes you've paid over your life, do you? The only difference between SS and other taxes is the lies told to justify it.

You see this kind of shit all the time.  It's part of the divide and conquer meme.  Turn the young people against the old.

...and the old against the young. You are, unfortunately, correct.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:49 | 4252725 centerline
centerline's picture

Yup.  The truth hurts.  If the money flows to the government, it's a tax.  Got to love those SS statements though.  Almost makes it feel like it's your money!  lol.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:31 | 4253165 scrappy
scrappy's picture

This is ZH.

Stop thinking within the present "system"

We can do any social construct we wish.

It is our true power, if you embrace it.

It's called Liberty.

 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 04:41 | 4253296 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

present system was built over 1000s years.

 

you want true liberty, start your own society on mars and cultivate it for 1000 years.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:46 | 4252537 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

you, transformer, are a special kind of ignorant.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:47 | 4252718 starfcker
starfcker's picture

really, dirtdigger? that's what's wrong with america, the people who worked hard and paid taxes for the last 40 years are getting 1200 bucks a month? cut them off and all is well? how many months of 1200 dollars does it take to get to 300 grand? and you call transformer ignorant? 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:35 | 4252862 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Still the trend is there, let's ally ourselves with the millenials, and the new artist generation (4th turning) and ALL that follow...

It is our ancient and time tested true DUTY as a society.

Come together, right now, over me.

 

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 23:59 | 4252927 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Yup, government are the only criminals that can take the same dollar multiple times.

Here you have them taking a dollar with the promise to give it to retirees. However, they then also steal it from them.

 

"Hi, I'm with the government. Which hole will it be?"

 

 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 01:55 | 4253107 Not_Sure
Not_Sure's picture

Wow! The stupidity is astounding. It is yet another example that economics is never taught to the younger generation for a reason.

 

The american "dream" is a large unlubricated dildo stuffed into the nether regions of our posterior. Enjoy!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 04:10 | 4253284 Just Observing
Just Observing's picture

Ok....here is some back of the napkin figuring.

Average social security check is probably in the 1000 to 1200 range......I get 870/mo because I made it a point to avoid SS by earning more in the form of 'unearned' income the last 20 years of my working life.  My wife was a wage slave, and hers runs about 1500/mo.

So let's take 1000/mo as average.

Let's say the average life span once you reach 65 is about 15 more years....180 months.

180 x 1000 = 180,000 JUST in SS.

Add in a minimum of 500/mo for medicare benefits, and you get another 90k....now you're at 270.  (And that is probably low for the medicare, since there is a LOT of major surgery tht goes on after 65...heart....I had a triple bypass that was about 140k alone...replacement joints down the road are gonna run probably another 100 or more....hey, THANKS by the way....)

Yeah.....I can easily see 327k as an average.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 06:41 | 4253382 didyoujustpullt...
didyoujustpullthatoutofyourass's picture

I don't doubt the numbers, but it's due to inflation. The amount they'll recieve will be alot more than what they paid in, but will be worth less. The same thing will happen to every generation as long as the debt/fiat/socialsecurity ponzi keeps chuggin' along.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 23:19 | 4252811 squib
squib's picture

Back up the truck.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:52 | 4251405 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Fonestar and his merry guild of BitPals will have their "Leeroy Jenkins moment," to be sure.  Although I would be tempted to feel bad for them, it isn't like they weren't warned.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:16 | 4251502 funthea
funthea's picture

Fonestar still hasn't reconciled the implications of how 927 people hold half of all bitcoins. In his utopian bitcoin world, where bitcoin triumphs over all of mankind, these 927 people Will basicaly own the US, China, Europe and most of Latin America. All without ill-consequences.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4251546 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I'm sure they're nice folks who like to share their beer.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:33 | 4251576 funthea
funthea's picture

Speaking of... I just brewed my first Black Rye IPA. Best beer I have ever brewed. 9.1 ABV and was 107 IBU. But tastes like about 50 IBU on acount of the san diego super yeast.

Not enough to share... all for me.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:50 | 4251883 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Very cool. I've never brewed with rye - have to try that the next time I get a setup going. I like them nice thick brews as well.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:52 | 4252736 centerline
centerline's picture

... feeling pretty inadequate with my plastic keg "Mr. Beer" kit.  ha ha...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:23 | 4252007 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Come on! Aren't we supposed to spead the beer around? (the next new currency)

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 01:27 | 4253080 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

You didn't brew that.

Also, if you want your beer, you can keep your beer.
Honest.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 00:08 | 4252923 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Awesome, Got my beer making set up, and wine potions and champagne yeast for quick wines out of any juice. Kudos ZHr.

This is the Beer kit I got, has a 6 gal. glass carboy.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002BU7CVM/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?i...

True Brew Oktoberfest Home Brew Beer Ingredient Kit

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003SSFG7I/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?i...

The carboy can be used for wine as well.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ELJK46/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i01?i...

Don't forget the carsan.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064O7YFA/ref=oh_details_o05_s00_i00?i...

Active Yeast

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0064O7T2I/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?i...

Champagne yeast

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00434CB74/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i02?i...

You can also make your own yeast when the SHTF.

http://www.tacticalintelligence.net/blog/how-to-make-homemade-yeast.htm

This is ZHr Fuel that should never be left to chance.

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:50 | 4251629 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

927 people Will basicaly own the US, China, Europe and most of Latin America. All without ill-consequences.

So you're saying bitcon is just like fiat.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:27 | 4251807 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

or precious metals in terms of volume.... but hey don't let reality get in the way of bashing the bitcoiners

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:26 | 4251800 InTheLandOfTheBlind
InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

what about us dollars?  should we get rid of those too (maybe!!!) since they are held in majority by a small minority? ... you really think you have one up on fonestar?  you might want to reconsider if you do

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:10 | 4253135 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Long 'Exit Visas'. QED.

Maybe guys like Casey and Black aren't totally off track with their 2nd Residency philosophy.

So glad I've had a 2nd passport for decades, and have been raised in a multi-lingual home. Thanks, mom & dad!

Will strive to pass on these priceless gifts to my kids. Although I truly fear for the younger ones, whom I'm trying to wean off (detox) the Gaming disease and Hive-Mind pop culture of FB and texting.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:53 | 4251413 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

So the 401K plan is not working as designed. You saved taxes then but now that many people need the money out because of the financial conditions and with higher taxes, you came out a loser.

Even for those who do not need it right away, coming out ahead in any significant way, is questionable.

Brilliant!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:08 | 4251474 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

On the contrary it is working to plan. Did you forget who planned it, and who sold it to you? Did you really think the Casino invited you to play so you could take their purchasing power home with you? What an odd idea. Your role is to be road kill. The 401K is the greatest rip-off in the history of civilization. As for the article; charts in dollar numbers without correction for devaluation/inflation; are meaningless.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 05:13 | 4253317 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

And a great plan it is. Induce us to work and save, then inflate currencies to induce us to "invest" to protect its value. We are giving them our money that we worked for. They are using the money while paying us meager returns and then we have to pay taxes on anything we might make, even if it doesn't match inflation. A perfect plan, and the more it fucks us and we tealize it, the more we put into higher and higher risk investments to make the returns to just break even. Helluvadeal.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:02 | 4251451 seek
seek's picture

He's commenting because BTC has taken nearly a $200 dump today. This one is slower that the slamdown from before, but the pre-slamdown pattern is the same -- someone is doing multiple trades of about $2M each spaced every 5 minutes. Last time they kept that up for a few hours to suck up liquidity then dropped a $25M order on the market. We'll see if they do the same here shortly or if they're content with the slow walk.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:11 | 4251481 malikai
malikai's picture

Incoming Bitcoin CRASH!!11 thread detected.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:03 | 4251693 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

This is called: cashing out.

You know those speculative hot money flows?  They were using Bitcoin to launder their cash, not to store their savings.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:58 | 4252752 centerline
centerline's picture

Shit HR, the global hunt for capital is on like donkey kong.  There is a ton of money out there looking to flee.  Any and every way to find a channel to safe haven (and a safe haven).  Just a brush fire now though...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:50 | 4251393 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Extremely strong support at $0 or $1 trln.  That's my target trading band.    

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:56 | 4251428 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

nah, bitcoin is about to be regulated. It's not even worth 1$ anymore.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:10 | 4251479 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Time to buy more Silver; oh-continental Sudden Debt Friend. Price is nicely beat up. Will seem quaint next Christmas.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:24 | 4251541 AGAU
AGAU's picture

At that price i'm going to back up the truck..I mean...usb key.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:40 | 4251594 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

"....all those who have paid in money to entitlements, are entitled to benefit from entitlement distributions in the future."

I am damn sick and tired of hearing from the media, politicians and ordinary citizens how we have "paid in money to entitlements". None of us have paid a dime in to entitlement programs, we've been stolen from...robbed...hoodwinked. I haven't paid a dime into Social Security or Medicare but in fact have had tens of thousands of dollars stolen from me over nearly 60 years to fund the programs which pay current recipients. To say that any of us have "paid money in to entitlements" is to imply that we have done so willingly and of of our own volition. None of us had a fucking choice in the matter. The government has enacted laws (like the 16th amendment) which allow employers to act as collection agencies to garnish a portion of our wages. There ain't nothing voluntary about the arrangement.

Language is important and as long as people keep saying "we paid in" then what gets lost in the conversation is that all of us, every single one of us has been robbed blind by a cabal of thieves who have a monopoly on the use of force.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:07 | 4253127 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

you are a funny bastid horseman !

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:39 | 4251343 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

The millenials are so fucked.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:43 | 4251358 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

bearish for housing.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:46 | 4251374 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

So sign up for BammyCare kiddies, 'cause we know what's best for you.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:52 | 4251404 Chris Jusset
Chris Jusset's picture

Comment:

"The millenials are so fucked."

True, and more generally, the US is so fucked ...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:30 | 4251559 SMG
SMG's picture

That's right we've all been screwed.

The young, the old, men, women, everybody. 

The oligarchs want us fighting amongst ourselves, instead of fighting them.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:45 | 4251365 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Would you rather be a millenial or a 65 year old knowing the millenials and every generation after them are never going to make good on the next 20 years worth of promises the 65 year olds made to themselves?

 

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:49 | 4251381 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

millenial, anyday. youth is priceless, even these moron's youth.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:53 | 4251400 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

that's what I'm saying. CD (below) is correct, they will inflate it all away and bot generations will be fighting over cat food. But I'd hate to be old and frail knowing someone may change the rules.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:55 | 4251423 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

The world isn't gonna last that long.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:57 | 4251435 youngman
youngman's picture

Do you really think the 65 year olds think they are not going to get their paydays.....lol....they have no idea of what they are going to get..they think they are all covered forever...they think they deserve it..

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:24 | 4251795 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Well if you deserve it, you should get it.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:16 | 4251497 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Gov't bennies like SS are tied to inflation so that won't work.  I know what you're going to say- they're manipulating the inflation rate. True, but they can't manipulate it enough to get around this one.  This one will have to be fixed out in the open someday.  Someone's gonna lose and someone's gonna lose worse.  

And after everyone's taken the 2x4 up their ass the politicians and spin doctors will declare it "fair" and that will be that.

When?  Good question.  When enough of the boomers die off they don't have sufficient political leverage to keep the river flowing uphill to themselves.  In short, a long long time.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:22 | 4251528 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

 

All talk of Social Security always misses the housing crash effect.

Avg Soc Sec benefit check is under $20K/yr and a Medicare premium is extracted from that.

With that, these people have to pay rent.  Looking forward, more and more have to pay rent because their houses evaporated.  It's a renter nation now.  Whereas 10 years ago, that Soc Sec recipient had paid off his mortgage and that $16K/yr might have covered food, now and forward it has to cover food and rent.

It will never work.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:25 | 4251545 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

well at least gold and silver are surging....were surging......

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:25 | 4252968 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Not to mention O Care and broke municipalities, blood from stone, it will not work.

Triage time, save the best, get rid of the rest.

Face reality with courage.

Rebuild together, not apart.

 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 00:56 | 4253037 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

All part of the plan. Can't have Pottersville without a nation of renters. Next step, starvation for the superfluous.

Miffed;-)

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:22 | 4251783 max2205
max2205's picture

and fed workers get another 1% raise....fuck me...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:27 | 4251799 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Yea, just pack up the plantation and call it a day.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:53 | 4251401 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Aging boomers Mr and Mrs Bearing, it turns out, aren't even eligible for Social Security nor Medicare.  We did not put enough (taxes) into the system.  Which is just as well, because the future money is not there (OK, maybe hyperinflated money night be there).

Millennials might be smart to NOT COUNT ON ANYTHING!

Go long bearing companies in Peru...

Go long gold...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:42 | 4251351 madcows
madcows's picture

Thank you boomers. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:55 | 4251410 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Fuck you.

How would you like to be 52 years old, have paid over 1.1 million in state and federal taxes, 175000 in Social Security taxes, know that you aren't going to see shit in retirement and then have to listen to assholes talk about "boomers"?

Grow up. We're both getting robbed. Me - for what I have already accomplished and you - for whatever the fuck it is you're supposed to get done.

Stop the divisiveness, we're on the same side. As for those collecting now, good for them. They made it. Now watch what they get to enjoy in their old age.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:04 | 4251449 john39
john39's picture

I have to agree. many elderly get robbed blind by the medical industry. anyone who has older relatives fall into the system with health problems knows, wealth evaporates overnight...  then medicaid kicks in, once the patient is broke, and the loop goes from the taxpayer straight to the medical industrial complex while the elderly rot in hellish holding cells shitting on themselves and drooling while watching game shows on TV.  better die younger, when you still have control over your life.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:27 | 4251809 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Only the good die young, them and liars.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:03 | 4251459 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

We're not on the same side until you demand that the younger generations stop paying into the system (e.g. ss & medicare)...  lemme know when you get around to giving the checks back to uncle sam.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:26 | 4251530 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Absolutely.  Lots of these idiots know all about what I should/shouldn't get 30 years from now.  But you'll never see them advocate ending the payroll deduction!  Why, that would endanger _their_ gravy train...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:33 | 4251577 madcows
madcows's picture

I would gladly give up my SS check later in return for my SS taxes now.  But, that's a cash cow Con-gress won't give up so easily.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:53 | 4251901 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

You, I, and anyone else younger than 50 with a pulse...  which is why it will never be an option.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4251555 James-Morrison
James-Morrison's picture

Dude,  it's not as if you get to pick-and-choose where taxes are spent.

It would be a great system, but taxes and spending really drop from the same bucket.

You know, the one that leaks like a sieve!

The whole US goverment is one big Ponzi scheme, with lobbyists and crooks lined up first at the trough.   

I strongly encourage ANY generation to stop paying into the system -- see you at the FEMA camp, I'll be the one singing retro Doors songs, like "The End". 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:52 | 4251896 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I'm not advocating to pick and choose where taxes are spent, I'm advocating that we no longer be forced to pay into a system we know won't be around in any material sense (e.g. retention of purchasing power of the dollar over time) when it's time for us to collect.  Hell, the assholes that love SS and medicare now are already starting to feel the squeeze of dollar devaluation...  let alone a few more generations of retirees running through the system...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 01:38 | 4253098 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

The country is the FEMA camp. Like Siberia no need of fences. One big tax farm plantation. Some parts of the plantation are less worse then others.
The crop that is harvested is you. You are living Soylent Green.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:46 | 4251859 ejmoosa
ejmoosa's picture

You mean the younger generation that is running up all that student loan debt, and are only going to pay 10% of what they earn, over the poverty line, for a fixed amount of time, before the rest is forgiven?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:51 | 4251881 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yes, the younger generation that goes into debt in order to receive a little diploma (no net benefit) and no chance at upward mobility as opposed to the greatestish generation who has been humping the SS/medicare gravy train for decades like the night at the roxbury (huge net benefit...  cold hard cash)...  the difference between SS contributions and payouts being born by successor generations...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:08 | 4253723 RKDS
RKDS's picture

You really think that the banks will forgive those loans?  Wow.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:30 | 4251464 madcows
madcows's picture

You're right.  Let's just pretend it never happened, and everything is ok.  No harm, no fouls, no generational theft, no generational lack of responsibility.  It used to be if people committed a wrong that they went to jail.  Now, it's nobody's fault, everyone gets a trophy and don't fight a bully

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:45 | 4251610 HoleInTheDonut
HoleInTheDonut's picture

And a monthly participation certificate with your name on it

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:36 | 4251572 Drunken Ecnonomist
Drunken Ecnonomist's picture

(Responding to BandGap's weaksauce "Fuck You")

 

Oh no, by all means, please kindly go fuck yoooourself.

 

Your generation went to Canada during Vietnam, then CAME BACK and cheered on 2 pointless wars after 9/2001, all the while feathering your collective nests with entitlements.

 

"No child left behind?" Finish that sentence: "No child left behind to clean up your parasitic generations' clusterfuck of a mess."

 

The "We're both getting robbed" "it's fair" argument has worn WAY PAST thin. Suck it up and fall on your sword, hippy.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:53 | 4251650 pods
pods's picture

We are all merely at different points on the same ponzi line.  

If you think the recent politicians were bad, wait till you see the future ones.  They will have to deal with spiralling debt, AND lack of cheap oil.

The whole system is a ponzi scheme.  We are all involved.  Anyone who has taken on debt to purchase something is part of the problem.

I know of nobody who cannot have a finger pointed at them.

pods

(Gen Xer)

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:13 | 4251741 waterhorse
waterhorse's picture

At 52 years of age presently (born in 1961?), the OP wouldn't have been old enough to have been drafted for Vietnam.   So there goes your strawman boogieman - lol.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:48 | 4251867 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

You can kiss my ass on that one, I was one of those who went to vietnam but did not come home and buy into the MIC fueled endless war syndrome, actually what I did was attempt to have a normal life working hard to raise a family paying what I had to in taxes for forty years.

I have never experienced but one political victory and that was in 1979, after that it has been one scam after the next with no one representing my interests concerning Reason or Liberty in Washington.

Clowns like you need to season a bit before becoming such a judge of your fellow man- I doubt you could walk in the shoes I have to begin with and I imagine that every one of these idiots now ready to throw their grandfather and grandmother in the woodchipper in the same era would have done nothing different than my generation did, either pay your taxes or go to prison-

..you are a fraud.

fuck you kid- there is nobody here defending the excesses of GWB who was the only choice we had to avoid an Algore presidency or do you maintain he was a better choice?

Every election has been a desperate attempt to buy time- and that is all it did, buy time or kick the can - call it what you will, but either way none of this crap was our intent nor choice.

I repeat- fuck you and the unicorn you are screwing.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:06 | 4253705 RKDS
RKDS's picture

.

fuck you kid- there is nobody here defending the excesses of GWB who was the only choice we had to avoid an Algore presidency or do you maintain he was a better choice?

Do you give the same consideration to voters who chose Obama over Romney for the same reason?

 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 00:55 | 4253008 scrappy
scrappy's picture

52 is an XR-

http://www.lifecourse.com/about/method/the-generational-constellation.html

http://fourthturning.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?18-Generation-X

You Millenials are becoming like us, that's why I like you. I also hang with some of you and have a blast

Now learn grasshopper. You missed this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_J4TRYxpmU

Looking forward to working by your side in the the fourth turning, (crisis) and the first turning, the dawn of a very special new cycle..

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:43 | 4251849 madcows
madcows's picture

better to have been 52 and earned millions than to be 22 and owe millions with nothing but part time work at the burger joint.  quit whining.  you should have put all that money aside and held your representatives responsible.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 04:13 | 4253287 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You issue is lies with your own consent to theft. Own it. Good Day.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:01 | 4251447 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

You are welcome. 

But don't worry, I'll be "going home" in about 30-40 years. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edQNjJZFdLU

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:31 | 4251561 madcows
madcows's picture

The boomer's argument is that the government put it into the general fund and blew it all on questionable government largesse.  And, that they suffered an extra tax that was supposed to protect the next generations.

My rebuttal is this:  How come nobody held them accountable?  BTW, Clinton, Bush jr, and Obama are all boomers, as are most of their congressional counterparts.  I say the absolute failure of good governance happened under the boomers watch.  The boomer's government was the beginning of the "get it now, pay for it later" government.   The predecessor to the Free Shit Army.  Promises and Handouts in return for re-election.  And nowhere in there, was there "responsible, pay as you go" governance.

The legacy of MY generation will be the "cradle to grave" government.  It's already here.  No one is responsible for anything anymore.  They don't even feed or clothe or house themselves.  It's all government, all the time.

The boomers can complain that it is an unfair accusation.  That "they" paid in.  But, the fact remains, that as a GENERATION, not an individual, the Boomer generation was the beginning of the end.  The end of responsibility and the end of the nation.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:49 | 4251627 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

And when are you going to fix government?  If and when you don't, someone in 30 years will be blaming you.  

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:22 | 4251782 madcows
madcows's picture

I can't outvote the free shit army.  I can't outvote the black/latin/women vote.  I will get blamed.  My generation is the "please take care of me, I don't want to take of myself" generation... so far.

I'm hoping as a generation we can take back the country and restore morality. But i'm betting the chances are thin.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:21 | 4252645 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"But i'm betting the chances are thin."

The chances are zero, zip, nada.  

Stop dreaming about it.  It won't happen.

Future generations in (what's left of) America will live under a communist soviet type govt.  We're close to it now. 

 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:17 | 4253040 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Let's beat the odds then.

I always root for the underdog.

By the way, if you saw the fight, Hearns won over sugar ray, for sure.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:53 | 4251892 PoliticalRefuge...
PoliticalRefugeefromCalif.'s picture

And that's the problem with these people, they are quick to take the bait but then choke on it whole- so they just take part of it.

intellectual frauds all of them.

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:25 | 4251786 max2205
max2205's picture

no thank you SSI and EUI and FSA...stfu..

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:26 | 4251792 max2205
max2205's picture

4 trillion of over spending in 4 years by you know who....thats where poof...it went..poof

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:41 | 4251352 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Bullish for Abortions.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:21 | 4251527 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

"210th trimester abortions", that is.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:45 | 4251359 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Life is unfair. Get with the program.

In other news.

U.S. CONCERNED BY RUSSIAN MISSILE DEPLOYMENT IN BALTIC, ASKED RUSSIA TO TAKE NO STEPS TO DESTABILIZE REGION

The nerve of the US...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:17 | 4251510 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

If the US doesn't want the region destabilized maybe they should fire their mercenaries in Syria, and stop trying to get the Ukraine signed up with Nato. Better yet, just stop fucking with Russia, altogether, and mind their own business.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:43 | 4251362 subqtaneous
subqtaneous's picture

 

Giant Sucking Sound v2.0

 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:45 | 4251366 Usura
Usura's picture

This will never happen.  A man's obligations die with him.  The only legal exception I have read is in Japan, where multi-generational property mortgages apparently exist.  Default is a certainty, the remaining questions are when and how.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:57 | 4251420 Bryan
Bryan's picture

"A man's obligations die with him."

That's an astute point.  I found this out personally when my mother died in 2005.  She had debt on a new car she bought and the collection agency hounded me for weeks to "do the right thing" and pay it off.  I said "come take the car, it's yours."  They ate the difference in value vs. loan balance, not me. 

So I guess the mantra these days is not 'responsibility' but leverage yourself to the hilt (only in your own name, and with no collateral) as fast as possible so the banks don't find out you're way overextended and shut your credit down.  Then take the money you 'borrowed' and play with it in the market, pretending you're some day going to pay them back.  But don't make any payments on your loans - instead move out of the country and hide until you die, and poof, your debts are gone.  Whee!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:05 | 4251462 john39
john39's picture

one issue though. spouses are on the hook in many states for medical debts... which are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, and which can be incredibly high, as most by now know.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 02:00 | 4253118 August
August's picture

The mighty, mighty Gonzalo Lira opines as to why, if you are a Boomer retiring in the USA, you will go broke due to medical expenses:

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2013/07/if-you-are-baby-boomer-you-will-...

Statistically speaking, of course.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:07 | 4251473 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This is what has happened...  once people figured out that upward mobility (hell even sidways mobility or maintenance) is incredibly difficult if not impossible, they said fuck it and got on the dole...  moreover, before so doing, they decided to go out swinging with other peoples' money.  This is what our legal and political system incentivizes.  If you know that the rest of society will take care of you if you make incredibly bad life decisions, then why not have fun making bad decisions?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:48 | 4252072 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

This strategy obviously worked extremely well for the FIRE Sector - make very high-risk decisions, lose millions (billions??), make the false claim that your Institution(s) are so impotant to "Society" that their failure would be "Catastrophic", use Political influence to arrange extensive (and I note ongoing) Taxpayer support, and continue to pay those that were instrumental in causing the problems in the first place astronomical salaries (and multimillion dollar "Bonuses") even at the time these Institutions were "crying broke"!!

If the game's good enough for the "Big Boys" then why should everyone else be expected to live by different rules (because they certainly are "expected" to behave in a "more socially acceptable" fashion, or be prepared to spend "time inside").

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:25 | 4252472 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It isn't just the FIRE sector...  although it has benefitted the most...  it's really a testament to how our society promotes entrepreneurship...  and we wonder why money gets pissed away into nothing endeavors by people who couldn't lead a group of ants to a dropped ice cream cone.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 01:06 | 4253051 scrappy
scrappy's picture

Don't succumb to the criminality.

We must seek a real foundation, not succumb to their sick "system."

Hang in there.

We will all be "tested"

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:57 | 4251433 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

they exist allover europe

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:00 | 4251443 madcows
madcows's picture

No, you see, that's the beauty of the SS ponzi scheme.  They keep kicking the can (that is, racking up their SS payments as long term debt) until they all die, and Gen X, Gen Y and the Millenials are all left holding the bag.  Thanks grampa.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:48 | 4251371 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thus the reason why they will inflate this 'problem' away. The trick is to create inflation, but tell "We The People" there is no inflation.

<So far it's working. Ya can't fight something the 'author-ites' says ain't there.>

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