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Judge Rules NSA's "Indiscriminate & Arbitrary" Invasion Of Privacy Likely Unconstitutional

Tyler Durden's picture


A federal judge ruled Monday that the National Security Agency program which collects information on nearly all telephone calls made to, from or within the United States is likely to be unconstitutional. As Politico reports, Judge Richard Leon blasted, "I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying it and analyzing it without judicial approval." This is the first significant legal setback for the NSA’s surveillance program since Edward Snowden exposed it.

Via Politico,

U.S. District Court Judge Richard Leon found that the program appears to run afoul of the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures. He also said the Justice Department had failed to demonstrate that collecting the so-called metadata had helped to head off terrorist attacks.




Plaintiffs have a very significant expectation of privacy in an aggregated collection of their telephone metadata covering the last five years, and the NSA’s Bulk Telephony Metadata Program significantly intrudes on that expectation,” wrote Leon, an appointee of President George W. Bush. “I have significant doubts about the efficacy of the metadata collection program as a means of conducting time-sensitive investigations in cases involving imminent threats of terrorism.”




Leon’s ruling is the first significant legal setback for the NSA’s surveillance program since it was disclosed in June in news stories based on leaks from former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. The metadata program has been approved repeatedly by numerous judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and at least one judge sitting in a criminal case.

The Blog of Legal Times adds:

A federal magistrate judge in Washington today released a 157-page report detailing evidence and testimony in a dispute over the handling of evidence from mass arrests of protesters in downtown Washington in 2002.


U.S. District Magistrate Judge John Facciola did not, however, offer his conclusions on the central issue of whether city or police officials mishandled, concealed or destroyed evidence.


Facciola, who was appointed by U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan to probe the evidence-related allegations as a special master, wrote that he wasn't clear on the scope of his authority at this point.


"As I am reluctant to speculate as to Judge Sullivan’s intentions, particularly when the sanctions sought are so severe," Facciola wrote.


The underlying litigation involves mass arrests by the Metropolitan Police Department during protests around Pershing Park in 2002. In recent years, the arrest litigation has been put on hold as lawyers for the plaintiffs and the city fought over allegations that officials mishandled evidence and withheld information from the court.


Facciola's report didn't include a time frame for when Sullivan might decide how the case should proceed. "I will instead issue the following findings of fact but defer issuing conclusions of law until Judge Sullivan indicates the nature of the authority he wishes me to exercise," Facciola wrote, "assuming he intends me to have additional responsibilities once he reviews my findings."

Full judge's report:



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Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:09 | 4251216 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



A federal judge ruled Monday that the National Security Agency program
which collects information on nearly all telephone calls made to, from
or within the United States is likely to be unconstitutional.

No fucking shit.

Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:10 | 4251226 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Judge Leon, my advice to you is to avoid Cessnas.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:14 | 4251257 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Yup, the same advice that Jack-Jack got from Jackie. But it was a promise/oath he did not keep. RIP.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:20 | 4251271 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



The bigger concern is that people are not more pissed.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:21 | 4251276 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

It's OK because they got a waiver for that section of the law.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:46 | 4251377 john39
john39's picture

this is only a ruling on a preliminary injunction, not yet a final judgment. that said, a preliminary injunct is essentially a ruling that the claimant will win a judgment when the case is fully heard.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:57 | 4251422 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

"The court concludes that plaintiffs have standing to challenge the constitutionality of the government's bulk collection and querying of phone record metadata, that they have demonstrated a substantial likelihood of success on the merits of their Fourth Amendment claim and that they will suffer irreparable harm absent…relief,'' Leon wrote.

This is good news until they find kiddie porn on Judge Leon's home PC. (NSA would not do that) /s

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:06 | 4251450 Gen. Keith Alexander
Gen. Keith Alexander's picture

I will be happy to retire next year.

When good, hardworking Americans can't do their jobs to protect the people they serve due to mutual mistrust then it is best to hang up the (white) hat.

50 years ago we would have been heroes.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:11 | 4251477 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Why retire General when you could take a dirt nap.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4251538 akak
akak's picture

And I'll even donate the dirt!


("Dirt" here meaning physical soil, of course, not the illegally and unconstitutionally obtained, blackmail-useful personal secrets of individual Americans.)

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:51 | 4251632 outamyeffinway
outamyeffinway's picture

The only problem is that no matter what happens now, trust is destroyed. If the courts order the NSA to quit spying, who will believe that they actually will? They were doing it without approval and will just continue to do so. Even if they quit.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:00 | 4251681 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

who will believe that they actually will?

The secret court will tell us they have.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:08 | 4251683 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

@Gen. Keith Alexander:  Your job is to keep Americans Free not safe, you asshole.  The People are safe ONLY in their Freedom/Independence  You mean 50 years ago fooling the People would have been easier and successful.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:13 | 4251728 markmotive
markmotive's picture

60 Minutes revealed that NSA prevented a plot to destroy US economy.

Is this propaganda? Or journalism?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:14 | 4251734 The Juggernaut
The Juggernaut's picture

@markmotivePropaganda.  The Federal Reserve destroys the roots of the US economy.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:35 | 4251766 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

Not to disrespect anyones race/religion/cult, but I'm guessing Richard Leon is not a Jew.  At least not the kind that create our money out of thin-air and then charge us for it.  The kind that practice rascism and genocide, while screaming they are the victims.  The kind that lie to you on a daily basis by controlling and spinning your daily news.  The kind that oversee the most damaging corruption on the planet.  Right, I'm not supposed to believe my lying eyes.  2+2=5.  Got it....

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:23 | 4251998 Truthseeker2
Truthseeker2's picture
Edward Snowden: Man of the Year

! ! !
Mon, 12/16/2013 - 20:23 | 4252333 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Give it a rest ... Snowden is a psyop.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 20:21 | 4252276 i-dog
i-dog's picture

The judge is a Jesuit (ie. a crypto-Khazar). This is therefore a setup for something else far worse ... more than likely to privatise the data collection into the hands of an "independent" third party or the telecoms providers themselves - away from the prying eyes of constitutions, congressional committees and FOIA requests.

This is not good news, folks!

Indeed, it reinforces what I've said all along: That Snowden was/is a psyop to achieve a specific objective.

Problem ... Reaction ... Solution.


Free Francis Sawyer!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:22 | 4251784 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Sorry to go OT but can anyone shed any light on this?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:31 | 4251815 SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

MoveOn is full of liberal dimwits, but occasionally they get one right....

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:28 | 4252015 TheKinski
TheKinski's picture

"The bigger concern is that people are not more pissed."

My wife is not pissed.

My father is not pissed.

My sister is not pissed.

My mother is not pissed.

My mother in law is not pissed.

My father in law is not pissed.

My best friends are not pissed.

I am an island onto myself.

And although I am an introvert by nature, it is one lonely fucking island.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:40 | 4252222 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Kinski - there are a Lot of islands out there with you. People who aren't only pissed that this violation of the US Constitution goes on . . . . but that those we know personally, don't know about it or don't seem to care.

Youre not alone brother.

(My own brothers don't want to hear about it. Theyre not only willfully ignorant - theyre aggressively ignorant.)

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 05:04 | 4253311 Trampy
Trampy's picture

And although I am an introvert by nature, it is one lonely fucking island.


If you or any other intelligent life here get tired of that loneliness, shoot me an email using the PGP key in my Bio.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 20:08 | 4252292 twh99
twh99's picture

That is what bothers me most about this whole situation.  The minute their practices are exposed to the light, after years of doing it, it is found to be unconstituional.


The judges on the FISA court who approved this should be brought to the public square and exposed.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:52 | 4251643 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

BITCHEZ BUY SILVER MINES! 1. Check the price of Tobacco and M1 since 1950 2.

Processed Tobacco has the most stable demand no substitution, no cycle. It is clockwork to measure other commodities. Right now Silver is affordable in Tobacco Terms, actually it is cheaper than in 1950.

In tobacco terms, Silver is neither in a bubble neither expensive. Granted it is not as cheap than in beginning of 1999-2003, but it quite cheaper than between 1950-1965 pre-bretton Woods trouble. BUY SILVER MINERS!!!!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:57 | 4251679 giggler321
giggler321's picture

So what was when it was 8$/oz just before you lot shouted about how good a deal it was and now is?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:00 | 4251904 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Back in 2005, Silver was priced at 8 in USD, but at 2.50 in tobacco or 2.5 tonnes of tobacco for 100 ounces of Silver.

Today you need 3 tonnes of Tobacco for 100 ounces of Silver, so Silver is slightly more expensive but nothing dramatic. Of course in dollar it doubled, but it is silly to measure commodities in dollars to figure if they are cheap or expensive. Measuring it in dollars says nothing.


Well it is cheaper today at 19 USD than at 8 USD back in 1988. If you measure in processed tobacco, Silver does not move much except during the 1970s inflation panic.

In five years, if Tobacco triples and Silver only doubles, silver will be cheaper than today.

In other words measuring Silver in Dollars in pointless to know if it is cheap or not on a fundamental basis. Of course the volatility is a distraction.

The true metric of prices is Tobacco. I tracks M1 like a clock, it is not speculated with on futures market just an unbiased reliable measure of price inflation.





Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:55 | 4251661 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I'll donate the piss.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:19 | 4251763 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

I'll bring my dancing shoes.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:29 | 4251806 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I'll let you go first for sanitary reasons. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:56 | 4252571 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

akak said:

And I'll even donate the dirt!

("Dirt" here meaning physical soil, of course, not the illegally and unconstitutionally obtained, blackmail-useful personal secrets of individual Americans.)

Although I wouldn't waste any good soil on the likes of Starfleet Commode-odor Keith Alexander, I would be glad to divert all nightsoil production to the cause.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:26 | 4251542 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

'Likely' to be unconstitutional?!  Yeah, as in Obama is likely a dipshit.  As in Mrs. Obama is likely never satisfied.  As in some congressmen are likely driven more by self-interest than in the good of the country.   As in the Earth is likely not flat.  As in one may likely visit ZH free-of-charge. 

As in ......

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4251543 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘arbitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high-tech collection..."

but your honor, we can -Eric Holder 


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:07 | 4251946 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Speaking of that MFer....

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:33 | 4251565 SunRise
SunRise's picture

Sir:  What do you believe is the source of this mistrust?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:42 | 4251602 SunRise
SunRise's picture

From Wikipedia: Andy Greenberg of Forbes said that NSA officials, including Alexander, in the years 2012 and 2013 "publicly denied–often with carefully hedged words–participating in the kind of snooping on Americans that has since become nearly undeniable."[16] In September 2013, Alexander was asked by Senator Mark Udall if it is the goal of the NSA to "collect the phone records of all Americans", to which Alexander replied:

"Yes, I believe it is in the nation's best interest to put all the phone records into a lockbox that we could search."

—Keith B. Alexander, September 2013[20]
Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:59 | 4251686 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

People in DC sure do like those lockboxes.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:53 | 4251889 CH1
CH1's picture

The best sucker word they can find.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:34 | 4252209 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We should put them in one.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:49 | 4252561 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


We should put them in one.

If it's a Vichy DC style 'lockbox', what would prevent them from walking out one of the multiple open doors?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:07 | 4252595 nmewn
nmewn's picture

A few good men with very bad attitudes.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 22:59 | 4252756 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

My suggestion would then be that those few good men probably have better ways to spend their time and should just cut to the chase, break out the guillotines, and leave the heads of the guilty on pikes as a warning.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:38 | 4251817 Dr. Destructo
Dr. Destructo's picture

I would be happy to see the Gen. Alexander in front of a firing squad or behind bars bunked with a very promiscuous body builder that has a thing for generals.

So he thinks the best way to protect the U.S. is to treat all it's citizens as potential terrorists and criminals, and throw away our constitutional rights? Fascism has never sounded so benevolent. Does he remember his oath? To defend the constitution of the United States and so on? Or was that just an oath to defend the physical document itself?

He would be a traitor 50 years from now, and he IS a traitor today, but the only difference is that he is a state-sanctioned traitor.

May true justice catch up with the traitor

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:20 | 4251989 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I'm pretty sure the coffee you drank this morning had pee and hepatitis in it.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:49 | 4252247 steelhead23
steelhead23's picture

It flat stuns me that there are even 3 (at this moment) ZH readers who agree with Gen. Keith Alexander.  My God, he is Goebbels reincarnate.  Yeah, I get it that it ain't really Alexander and its a joke, but this ain't funny.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:20 | 4251280 knukles
knukles's picture

If I knew constitutional law I'd fix it myself

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 01:04 | 4253049 TheLoveArtist
TheLoveArtist's picture

You only need to know the Constitution.  All the other law crap is a bunch of morons coming up with laws that try to get around what the Constitution clearly states.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:25 | 4251302 NIHILIST CIPHER

HH              People won't be pissed until the teevee tells them they're pissed. Don't hold your breath for that one.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:40 | 4251348 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

or the SNAP cards fail... 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:30 | 4252027 BudFox2012
BudFox2012's picture

Yeah, just look at Black Friday to see what to expect the first day of an EBT card failure.  All down hill from there...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:34 | 4251316 bozzy
bozzy's picture

Amen to that

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:51 | 4251388 putaipan
putaipan's picture

being snooped on is one thing, being dragged away by the military and held without chages is another's chris hedges law suit coming? ( i dunno when, but the last time habias corpus was messed with even illiterate mud farmers knew enough to take up arms and make a stink )

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:23 | 4251524 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Being NDAA disappeared is one thing, having a president that can murder innocent 16 year old American citizens and get away with it is another.

Just think, people used to get excited because Nixon had an enemies list.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:40 | 4252232 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

Well, some of those 'illiterate mud farmers' you speak of were not illiterate, but well educated. Most had a clear grasp of reality and were wise amoung any standards.  If we were more like that ourselves it would be of great benefit.      And no, no slam of your sediment intended.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:23 | 4251523 LetsGetPhysical
LetsGetPhysical's picture

"The bigger concern is that people are not more pissed."

Narcissism trumps Liberty every time. Facebook has a reported 665 million active users, while blatantly collecting and sharing your personal data. The unfortunate truth is the internet is nothing more than a giant spying matrix. Play at your own risk. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:28 | 4251812 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

Public education will do that to ya' 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:07 | 4251853 Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

HH, an equally big concern is that U.S. citizens need people in black robes to tell them what is constitutional.


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:25 | 4252475 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

An equally big concern is that U.S. President and Congress and Lobbyists and FISA court Judges need Judges in black robes to tell them what is constitutional.

Too difficult for them to read and understand the Constitution?


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:08 | 4251951 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Biscuit, crux of.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:20 | 4251278 max2205
max2205's picture

And hot tubs and left handled hand guns and showers and driving Tesla's and doing anything bad on a handset pc or smartphone...ect

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:52 | 4251407 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Finally, what seems to be an honest judge.  To be sure, if he isn't, the NSA would have made sure this ruling would never have been made.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:43 | 4251605 Overfed
Overfed's picture

If he is indeed honest, and there is no dirt on him, then he'll just have an 'accident' or become distraght and 'suicide' himself.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:08 | 4251227 dryam
dryam's picture


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:15 | 4251263 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Then it's irrelevant. Even the judges have not guts any more.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:07 | 4251936 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

...after all, they get paid by the same paymaster that pays Gen Alexander.  All their checks say payer US TREASURY......

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:17 | 4251267 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

The secret court was, at the time the Constitution was written, called a Star Chamber, and was specifically prohibited.

It is an unconstitutional court that issues secret warrants, holds secret hearings, issues secret opinions, issues secret arrest warrants, and sends people to secret jails.

Stalin is laughing in his grave . . .

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:23 | 4251283 knukles
knukles's picture

Between breaths Osama is bubbling "We won"

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:23 | 4251534 Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

Pics or it didn't happen.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:56 | 4251656 Keyser
Keyser's picture

I think I know your brother, Dick Cranium. 


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:45 | 4251361 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The court issued an injunction...  it does not decide the merits of the case at this point, only makes an off the cuff call as to the likelihood of success of the claimant.  As a result, "likely" is the standard.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:11 | 4251231 localsavage
localsavage's picture

They just told 60 minute that they don't collect that data.....That may give Obama's "you can keep your doctor" line a run for its monet as biggest lie ever.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:28 | 4251304 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

That Utah center with millions of hard-drives, is just a hard-drivve storage facility.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:02 | 4251444 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

NSA Cloud Storage... you can trust U.S. (wink)

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:13 | 4251243 shutdown
shutdown's picture

This court decision doesn't matter. Some federal agency or another will continue to gather this information whether it's constitutional or not, whether we like it or not. As far as the US Government is concerned, the Fourth Amendment no longer applies. We have to face this simple fact and get used to it. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:36 | 4251334 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

The downvotes suggest a lack of understanding of our reality.  On a functional level, we do not exist within a constitutional republic.  Fedgov has to collapse under the weight of it's own hubris before we can get back to said republic.  

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:21 | 4251773 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

I suspect the down votes refer to "getting used to it". The reality of the situation is clear, the security services are out of control and congress can't or won't bring them into line. I think that's the real reason everybody in goverment went ape sh*t over Snowden. They were all comfortable with their little play act of pretending to oversee these programs while allowing the NSA and others to run wild. Then Snowden dumped all over their comfortable reality. Only Ron Paul, Mark Udall and a few others worked to expose what was happening.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:48 | 4251874 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

"Get used to it" is an appropriate recommendation.

Because there is no means under the sun or by the divine will of any God (pick one doesn't matter) that the situation as it is played out now will change. Nobody in power wants it to change, you cannot change it without power, they will not share power, and nobody willing to change how power is distributed and used will be allowed to get anywhere near the real power.

Period. Stick a fork in it, it's done.

However -- the power structure while impregnable from within is vulnerable to catastrophic collapse and annihilation from without. The current structure is dependant on vast and constant external energy and economic inputs (and corruption) that are subject to sudden interruptions. A substantial global economic meltdown will change the landscape completely and probably forever and permit the sudden evaporation of 600 years of systemic fraud and monetary terrorism.

And now you know something more about what keeps Ben Bernanke up at night.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:17 | 4251976 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Yessir.  Kill the petrodollar, and you do some serious damage to our ability to import oil.  Then, we have to choose between things like using oil to produce food, run the federal government, drive to work, etc...  There are some logical paths to take, which we probably will not take, at least at first.  The federal government will become very dangerous as the energy required to provide bread and circuses and maintain its power slips away.  The other problem is that we, the people are not logistically equipped to deal with this kind of world.  We are not ready for decentralized food production.  We are not ready for a meltdown of the financial system, where we wake up one morning and it the banks are on a permanent vacation. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:26 | 4252179 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

"We are not ready"

No we are not ready at all. For any of those things, and much more. Each of which are important in one manner or another.

People adapt or die. Shrug. But it remains to be seen if the power structure can adapt at all. I think when people divert their attention (and greed and fear) away from Big Gov the latter will simply evaporate. Not without a fight of course, but notice that the fight (for lack of a better word) is a struggle on the part of Big Gov to remain relevant to the peoples' daily lives and the lives of future generations. Shooting people does not accomplish that. Starving people or herding them into FEMA camps does not. And there are probably enough intelligent, patriotic and community-minded armed services folk out there that if they figured their Big Gov way of life was doomed, they would jump off the train (taking their weapons with them) rather than ride if off the rails into a ravine called End Of The Line.

We can certainly hope so.


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:43 | 4252529 scrappy
scrappy's picture


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:36 | 4252501 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Contradictory premises.

Maybe it is divine will that your However scenario will happen.

Just saying.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:30 | 4251563 Blood Spattered...
Blood Spattered Banner's picture

Yes, also puzzled by your downvotes.  If ZH'ers recall back to last year, Federal Judge Kathleen Forrest ruled against NDAA under a similar argument, only to have her ass handed to her by the DoJ.  Nothing mattered then, and nothing will matter now.

Honestly, it's probably just a judge trying to stay on the right side of history, knowing full well his opinion is as useless as tits on a boar.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:03 | 4251692 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture


We have to face this simple fact and get used to it. 

IMO, it is the "get used to it" part that is probably rubbing people the wrong way.  If he means it in a "come to accept it and it's all cool" sort of way, then it deserves the downvotes.  If he means it in a "grit your teeth and figure out how to get through it" sort of way, then it deserves green arrows. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:13 | 4251729 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Isn't 'accept it and get used to it' the MO of the species Ovis Aries?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:58 | 4251670 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Under the NDAA, we have no rights, no consitution, no recourse other than to either shut our mouths and suck it up -or- leave. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:38 | 4251571 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

correct, your government has answered the Fourth Amendment with a resounding "no" and reduced it to "fucking shit"

how do we know that?

it is an actual crime not just a boo boo for an officer to illegally enter your home

your government was already caught red handed, working / forcing / bribing our major communication companies to hand over all that private data and when caught, our government immediately granted them retroactive immunity

So while this lowly district court judge appears to have a conscience, his good intentions will have no effect on the ride up - or is that down? 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:53 | 4252095 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

This sort of thing keeps me up at nights trying to figure out ways to fight against it when lawmakers and law enforcement are themselves committing criminal acts. We see so many examples every day in the open, almost taunting those aware, I wonder whether it is worth fighting such entrenched and established criminals who are the self-appointed exceptions to the rule of law. Fuck exceptionalism.

Blanket surveillance craps on the most fundamental ideas in the justice system: Presumption of innocence and Property rights that include right to privacy and individual sovereignty - the basic idea that a man's home is his castle. Anyone with even a cursory knowledge of history will know how hard won those rights were in the dark days when a feudal lord could do whatever he wanted to his serfs. Along with a veneer of the rule of law that dictates one set of rules for all of us to jump through, and none for the privileged,  we have something else much more sinister in this century: Thought crime, where anything and every thought you have ever committed to your hard drive will one day be used against you. Subverted and twisted to fit whatever the law will criminalise in the future.  

Think about it. How many times have you been pro or anti something online?  How likely is that to be criminalised in the future,  if it isn't already? We live in a dark age indeed. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:53 | 4251640 bobnoxy
bobnoxy's picture

Snowden, Man of the Year!

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:06 | 4251706 doctor10
doctor10's picture

Hope he hasn't a late model Mercedes-ala "Hastings AutoDrive " option

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:24 | 4252008 Freddie
Freddie's picture

His name is Edward Snowden.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:09 | 4251218 NIHILIST CIPHER

Privacy........what's that?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 17:04 | 4251695 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

it's a lot like "piracy"

you have to go out in the middle of the ocean to make it work

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:25 | 4252010 Freddie
Freddie's picture

What this evil scum will do is have Mi6 in England or Israel or Google (redundant) spy on people and forward the info to the NSA. 

There are plenty of lamp posts.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:08 | 4251219 Mercury
Mercury's picture

A federal judge ruled Monday that the National Security Agency program which collects information on nearly all telephone calls made to, from or within the United States is likely to be unconstitutional.



Isn't it his job to rule definitively one way or the other?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:11 | 4251234 TheTmfreak
TheTmfreak's picture

I guess now that's code for lawyers to "interpret" the law.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:13 | 4251238 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Isn't it his job to rule definitively one way or the other?

Yes, but your expectation of our judiciary doing its job is totally unrealistic.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:23 | 4251292 knukles
knukles's picture

"Nah, it's just a tax.", Chief Justice Roberts

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:04 | 4251454 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Chief Roberts cast the deciding vote... never forget this.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:13 | 4251254 Squiddly Diddly
Squiddly Diddly's picture

Probably, but not likely.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:47 | 4251372 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

See post above...  the judge issued a preliminary injunction, so an assessment as to likelihood of success is all that happens...  he found in favor of the claimant, who contended that the state's acts are unconstitutional.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:13 | 4251487 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Thanks. I knew it should be something like that but I didn't see it in the article.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:39 | 4252520 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

He knew that his decision would be appealed to the higher court and ultimately be decided by the Supreme Court.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:07 | 4251222 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

In 0's Amerika, the opinion of a judge - or the Constitution - is irrelevant.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:19 | 4252167 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

But but.... O was a constitutional law professor! And that makes him smart or something, and he knows more about this than you! So shaddup and eat your peas

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:10 | 4251223 Racer
Racer's picture

And instead of branding Snowden a traitor, any true believer in the US constitution should reward him with the highest honours for bringing this breach to the notice of the people. Anyone siding with the idea that he is a traitor should themselves be branded traitors

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:24 | 4251285 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

Now that we know how many millions the members of the intelligence committees are collecting from the Military / Industrial / Orwellian Complex, it's not hard to understnd why they want Snowden dead.


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:40 | 4251597 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

i'm sure the judge put that somewhere in his ruling

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:08 | 4251225 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Obama doesn't care about the Constitution, congress, the law, the will of the people, or common sense.  

Shut up and eat your soylent green peons. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:58 | 4251427 SDShack
SDShack's picture

The sociopath manifesto. Welcome to the NWO of Feudal Banker Kings, State Lords that administer Political/Social/Security dictates, and billions of Feudal Serfs content to scamble for the crumbs that fall from the TPTB tables. The only way this changes is with a New Dark Age that spawns revolution.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:13 | 4251230 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The school yard bully (the NSA) will simply say....."Make me stop spying." Regardless of whether something is unconstitutional, someone/thing has to enforce the courts' ruling.

<Checkmate to the Justice Department.>

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:14 | 4251250 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Yup.  Their spying gives them tremendous power, and they aren't going to give that up easily. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:24 | 4251296 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

With the Black Racist White Collar Defense Attorney Eric Holder as AG, they will be deemed TBTP.


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:31 | 4251314 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

More like ... catch me if you can.

They don't care about terrorists.

It's the Chinese etc. that they're worried about. Bogeymen with real weapons.

Remember, more Americans die by lawnmower than terror attack.

They want a complete backup copy of everything, so when someone knocks the country off line (Nuke, Emp, Plague, CyberWar etc.) they can replay the tape. If they can replay the tape, then deniability or uncertainty is gone. And then, if you have not destroyed every launchpad, yer gonna get some armageddon shoved up yer ...

MAD has given way to assymetric threats and responses.




Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:44 | 4252545 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

They will retaliate against whomever they wish, whether guilty or not.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:30 | 4251560 LetsGetPhysical
LetsGetPhysical's picture

"Make me stop spying."

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:57 | 4251664 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Stop spying on yourself!

Stop spying on yourself!

Stop spying on yourself!

Stop spying on yourself!

Stop spying on yourself!


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:03 | 4251927 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

However after a ruling that domestic spying is unconstitutional several important things change, and right now;

First, Congress cannot pass any new measures or deliberately fund any agencies that violate such a ruling. And existing laws might be suspended pending judicial review, and existing agencies might be required to divulge all their current activity (which is to say -- to Snowden themselves) and all Federal agencies might be required to certify themselves against the ruling.

Next, agencies that continue to spy against the ruling would be subject to being found in contempt of court, which at least for now remains a significant crime against the people.

Also, a ruling against domestic spying would open the door to "populist" politicians (or wannabes) who could then put a lot of heat under the seats of incumbent corporate and M/IC Congress-titutes who, so pressured, might rat out the diehards in the club as a means to either keep their personal power, or to ascend higher in the political class structure.

At any rate, for the moment a finding that these kinds of actions broadly given are contrary to the interests of the people could become explosive.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:10 | 4251239 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Please express our deepest sympathy to the judges family.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:11 | 4251242 madcows
madcows's picture

I'm betting the only person that goes to jail for this is Snowden.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:19 | 4251273 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Jail? Doubtful. Maybe the cemetary, but not jail. I think they'll let him into the United States under an immunity deal and then he'll shoot himself twice in the head.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:22 | 4251288 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

while flying a small plane into a single car collision... suicide note in Janet Napolitano's handwriting...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:28 | 4251303 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

And the cops who investigate the death will all die at a topless bar party.


Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:07 | 4251469 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

"During an interview with 60 Minutes that aired on Sunday night, Richard Ledgett, who heads an NSA task force handling unauthorized disclosures, said officials should weigh offering amnesty to prevent further disclosures.

"'My personal view is, yes, it's worth having a conversation about,' Ledgett said. 'I would need assurances that the remainder of the data could be secured, and my bar for those assurances would be very high. It would be more than just an assertion on his part.'"

and Obama says....

The White House echoed a long-held position Monday: There will be no amnesty for Edward Snowden.

"Mr. Snowden is accused of leaking classified information and faces felony charges here in the United States," said Caitlin Hayden, spokesperson for the National Security Council. "He should be returned to the U.S. as soon as possible, where he will be accorded full due process and protections."

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 19:14 | 4252151 Legolas
Legolas's picture

Infowars has a link to the interivew, and another discovery.

Creepy stuff.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:30 | 4251248 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

So it's "likely unconstitutional," then? Not because people have rights (individually, not as a member of a group or collective), but because it happens extrajudicially. It would be fine if the judge gets to control it.
Fuck him.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:54 | 4251415 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

At this point, the judge has not been tasked with deciding whether the matter is unconstitutional, nor whether it would be acceptable if run through the standard warrant process.  While I haven't parsed through the 68 pages of the opinion, I can say that it is perfectly constitutional for the matters to be run through a public court first and a warrant ensue if it meets the legal (constitutional) standards to be issued...  there isn't anything unconstitutional about the warrant process...  You can complain about it all you like, but please don't cite constitutionality as your authority...   

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:53 | 4252092 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture


Don't be a wanker. Violating the Fourth Amendment is "unconstitutional."

Not sure what you're talking about.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:29 | 4252489 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The process of gathering information on a person (a criminal investigation if you will) is not a violation of the fourth amendment presuming that the warrant process (among others) is followed.  In other words, the technology and gadgets necessary to spy on everyone aren't per se unconstitutional...  rather, their widespread use is unconstitutional.  So the fact that the "judge wishes he could bring the process into his own purview" (again, I doubt that's anywhere in the 68 pages of his opinion, but I didn't read it) is not remotely unconstitutional...  in fact, it's literally the system set forth by the constitution...

Now, all these gadgets ought to scare the hell out of everyone because we know that they will only be put to illegal use (and then the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine later made impotent), but I doubt they're going away and there is an argument to be made that they can be used in a constitutional manner...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:17 | 4259723 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

You sound like a bullshit artist to me. The American revolution was fought over

-firearms confiscation

-improper searches and seizures


-paper money

Does that ring a bell?

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:16 | 4251256 replaceme
replaceme's picture

In a compartmentalized, top secret environment where whistleblowers are prosecuted and persecuted, why would the NSA give a rat's furry ass what this judge says?  Especially since they know every porn site he's ever visited, and can make him drive his car off at high speed while his neck is tied firmly to a lamp post*.

*that last part creeps me out a lot, because a lot of people with secrets have chosen to be "killed themselvesed" that way.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:24 | 4251287 akak
akak's picture

RIP Judge Richard Leon.

Another suicide by gunshot in the back of the head.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:02 | 4251452 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

His vehicle will be at the court house parking lot but his body will be found in a small national park at least a dozen miles away.

Just when you thought it was safe to go to the office in DC, Hillary is back, nastier and meaner than ever.  You've waited a long time for this sequel.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:30 | 4251564 akak
akak's picture

It is always best to avoid Shrillery, especially when she is in the process of shedding her skin.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:28 | 4251558 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

Three gunshots.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 18:40 | 4252050 TheKinski
TheKinski's picture

Back and to the left.

Back and to the left.

Back and to the left.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 21:51 | 4252563 Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Shot from the Grassy Knoll.

Fifty years after the JFK assassination, and the Government and the Establishment news media is still lying about it.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:15 | 4251258 MFLTucson
MFLTucson's picture

You must be an American for the constitution to matter and we dont have many left in DC.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:15 | 4251259 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

They are just giving the public a little something to calm them down.


You can maintain power over people as long as you give them something.

Rob a man of everything and that man will no longer be in your power.

-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 16:27 | 4251552 Blood Spattered...
Blood Spattered Banner's picture

Yep, another false olive branch is offered to give us hope.

This is exactly what is happening with Liz Warren too.  Another blossoming ideologist to give us all hope, only to find she is just as much a "part of the system" as the Clintons, Bushes and Obummer.

"If voting changed anything, they would make it illegal."



Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:18 | 4251265 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

more records for obama

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:22 | 4251275 Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

Okay, so we've all been wronged. Start mailing the reparations checks. I figure about $100,000,000.00 each should do just fine. 

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:59 | 4251436 somecallmetimmah
somecallmetimmah's picture

"Start mailing the reparations checks."

Start?  They've been direct deposit for over 10 years.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:25 | 4251290 ptoemmes
ptoemmes's picture

John Roberts to the rescue....


/sarc off

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:25 | 4251291 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

In other news, Hitler and Stalin were declared despots ...

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:24 | 4251297 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

"Likely Unconstitutional" ????????????? Gee, maybe you think so? 

No shit Sherlock! What was your first clue?  <sarc>

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:24 | 4251299 BadDog
BadDog's picture

Unelect all pro NSA politicians and defund the damn thing.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:36 | 4251321 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

S to the R ...

Yes to the NRA.

No to the NSA.

Mon, 12/16/2013 - 15:35 | 4251326 pupdog1
pupdog1's picture

The Constitution was written in the plainest of plain English so that We the People wouldn't have to hire a filthy lawyer to decipher it.

Especially the Fourth Ammendment.

If you want to know what's really going on, just Google up some of the recent articles about the hundreds of thousands of dollars--"campaign donations"--that the members of the intelligence committees have been paid by the private security industrial complex. And, I'm sure, the board seats awaiting these lackeys when their whorin' days are over.

Think of landing on D-day, and then think of the tiny amount of money needed to get a handful of congressional whores to sell out the rights that hundreds of thousands of Americans have died defending.

Simple as pie.

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