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Jim Grant Slams Steve Liesman "The Fed Can Change How Things Look, But Not What They Are"

Tyler Durden's picture


"I got up this early to talk, not to listen," Jim Grant berates Fed-apologist Steve Liesman as the two go head-to-head over the fallacy that QE has been a success. "The Fed can change how things look, it cannot change what things are," is the single-sentence summation of the mirage that the Fed's "dangerous monetary manipulation" has created.

Arguing that Grant is wrong because, as we saw this morning with CPI, there is no inflation, Grant blasts back pointing to the massive inflation in asset prices, art, farmland, ferraris as indicative of who the Fed's policies have helped. Grant adds to the list of obvious bubbles and even Joe Kiernan jumps in on his side against Liesman's insistence that the Fed is omnipotent (because the currency hasn't crashed... yet).

150 seconds of perfect disequilibrium at the pretense of central planning...

And, as we noted previously, here's why..."The Rich Hold Assets, The Poor Have Debt"

This chart from Citi's Matt King pretty much sums it up (and contrary to what Magic Money Tree growers will tell you, debt is not wealth).

Why is it important? Simple - contrary to the Fed's flawed DSGE models, it is the poor who are more likely to consume. And logically with their purchasing power being funneled to the rich with every $85 billion in monthly debt monetization, they purchase less and less. As the slow but steady contraction in the economy over the past five years has proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

But hey: at least Hamptons' houses have never been more expensive and the Russell2000 keeps on hitting daily all time highs. Thank you "wealth effect."


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Tue, 12/17/2013 - 09:58 | 4253689 unrulian
unrulian's picture

Nice slam...try a DDT next time

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:01 | 4253695 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

DDT doesn't kill slugs.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:14 | 4253752 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Its fer dem cock-er-oaches. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:24 | 4253772 Doña K
Doña K's picture


If you are in the biusiness to make money, change your tune. People will flock. The truth will liberate you. You will be able to look yourselves in the mirror.

If you are in business for idealism, You are doomed.

There is still time. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:34 | 4253817 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

The correlation between Liesman getting botoxed and becoming the mouthpiece for the Fed is 1.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:34 | 4253957 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Was an embarrassment to watch, as Grant made Liesman look like a complete fool.  Not that being a fool is bad or anything, just that fools have no place challenging someone that knows what they're talking about.

Stevie lost any ounce of respect when he said: "Jim when are you going to stop beating the inflation drum and finally say Hey, maybe QE is working"?  Dummy.  A centrally planned economy and Steve wants to argue merit?  Absolute dummy!!!!

I only tuned in for Grant.  Didn't watch anything else on that crummy channel.

Thank you Jim for a great commentary.


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:37 | 4253985 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

Gold just gapped lower again....damn manipulaturds

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:44 | 4254008 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Thought leader vs. Cheer leader!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:18 | 4254129 slotmouth
slotmouth's picture

Give me a Q!  Give me an E!  What's that spell?  More Ferraris.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:48 | 4254253 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Did you notice Jim Grant's jaw start to twitch just before he laid into Liesman?  For people like me who like to study body language that's "I'm gonna rip your f'ing head off and shit down you neck in 3...2...1..." 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:35 | 4254407 foodisgood
foodisgood's picture

Grant was there for a reason and it was not for logic and market fundalmentism.

CNBC is an entertainment network looking for ad dollars. Mr. Grant is not much different in his agenda.

We are the greater fools for following these schills.

IAMSLATTERY - and I shill for one fact. Capital can only come from the fruit of Labor.

You fokers are chasing the reversin to the mean (BTATFH, BTFD) and the biggest lie of how bonds and interest rates are in an inverse relationship the IS NOT based on a ireedemable promise.

Get a life and get to work.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:13 | 4254830 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Liesman conveniently leaves out the residual debt that is left over from all the QE pumping and who / how it's going to repaid. How did this monkey ever get a job on a financial network, I'll never know. Oh wait, he's on the same network as Jim Cramer. 'Nuff said. 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 18:18 | 4255238 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

I would have just beat LIESman with a hose.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 23:59 | 4255953 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

QE has at least killed CNBC's ratings.

There is that.

Huzzah to Mr. Grant.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 04:31 | 4256314 Lore
Lore's picture

For his constant interruptions alone, Liesman deserves a smack -- Kernan, too. 

These aggravating little blurbs are worth keeping for posterity.  People in successful parts of the world will look back on these shallow buffoons and wonder how America fell so far. 


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 05:41 | 4256377 JerseyJoe
JerseyJoe's picture

Thanks for the lemonade line - priceless.  And so spot-on to help people WTFU - I am sure we know people who don't seem to get the gravity of the situation because they listen to ideological fools like LIESman.  (He so epitomizes the Marxist media.)   

I loved Grants comment (paraphasing) - "If I wanted to listen to you, I could have stayed at home in bed. I can hear you anytime."  

Bravo Mr Grant! Stuffed!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 08:03 | 4256464 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture





Jim Grant finally shows up to the party.


Like....where you been dude?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:50 | 4254268 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Key viewer participation at 39k...........FAIL

Oh, and they dropped the dreaded N-Word.......................

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:00 | 4254642 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

What's more amusing than to listen to the experts on low volume when my louder dreamy music melts the true tragegy as it is; you can catch the rare big tuna with a brain by just looking and waiting a month or so.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:02 | 4253893 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

No Dona K.... they are doomed and will stay doomed.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:31 | 4254170 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture


If you are in the biusiness to make money, change your tune. People will flock."


"The people" have no money.  So this would not be a profitable procedure.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 02:25 | 4256215 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

No money necessary. Eyeballs is what counts

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:53 | 4254466 Froman
Froman's picture

Will never happen since Comcast owns the network...Comcast execs are POS to begin with but as long as they have the captive sheeple paying up each month to have this crap piped into their residences it will continue.   Sheeple pay >$100+ for cable/internet/phone (aka CC "Triple Play") each month-> cable fees used to pay execs and talent that spew the crap to the sheeple injected with advertisements for necessities like "Sham-wow" -> Comcast gets additional $$$ from advertisers to ensure that the misinformation and socialist views of the Comcast executives headquartered in one of the bastions of progressiveness that is Los Angeles, New York or Philadelphia is delivered by a handicapped, veteran lesbian, who is a black, Hasidic Jew from the Philippines. Digest and repeat cycle.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:44 | 4253846 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Stevie boy needs a good ass whoopin ....

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:14 | 4253930 tbone654
tbone654's picture

can't whip his ass if he has some fed dick in it...

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:57 | 4256414 new game
new game's picture

a club wantabe

but stevie, the club dont want you 



are so



Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:20 | 4253763 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Always fun to see Liesman bitch-slapped-  sometimes just being louder than your guests isn't enough, Stevie.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:23 | 4253781 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

It's not very satisfying when Liesman is left for dead in the debate but is too stupid to know he lost.  It's like killing a zombie.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:48 | 4253860 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 07:54 | 4256466 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




Good times...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:04 | 4254080 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Steve Liesman, "Keep on Trucking",  Trucking on down the Mandarin's line.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:19 | 4254135 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

You have to remember, Liesman is a paid shill and part of his job to incite debate.   I'm sure he knows he looks bad, but at the end of the day, he has done his job and still takes home a big paycheck.  

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:43 | 4254216 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

But that isn't HOW he's doing it.  He isn't presenting this as "The Fed's Opinion on the subject" he's presenting it as STEVE LIESMAN'S OPINION.  

In one case you're reporting somebody else's case for purpose of discussion, in the other you're basically being a shill, as you say.

It's a big difference.  He could get the same discussion going without being a jerk.  I COULD MAKE THAT DISCUSSION HAPPEN WITHOUT BEING A JERK.  He chooses not to.  Any wonder people want to punch him through the TV screen?  Any wonder Jim Grant basically did it to him with words?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:46 | 4254578 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Better Steve Liesman than me to promote a rhetorical rant of circular reasoning rather than consider the opponent's point and earn the fat paycheck struggling with a thin tail rather than the fat ones that keep coming; rather like the rich man directing a living hell while burning in the warming flames of all its infernal glory.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 01:32 | 4256133 mt paul
mt paul's picture

you couldn't pay me enough

to look that bad..

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:39 | 4253832 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Grant handed LIESman his ass.
You Go Froderick!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:19 | 4254366 tbone654
tbone654's picture

And somehow after Grant hands him his ass...  Liesman's responds -- "when are you (grant) going to admit you are wrong?"

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 05:27 | 4256371 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

The only one worse than Lies Man is Jon Harwood.  

Sad, little crying fuck.  

Careful, don't talk about his infidelities.  He gets kinda snappy.

Wait, no...

... there is one worse than both.

Jay the Carnie.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:05 | 4253718 Popo
Popo's picture

Jim Grant is right, but unfortunately his arguments are too articulate and long-winded for Liesman's small brain.   A better, more succinct answer would have been more fitting for the sheeple watching TV.

Obviously, preserving asset values makes those WITH assets richer, and those without them relatively poorer.   I heart Jim Grant, but the man is too damn educated for CNBC.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:38 | 4253828 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture


"I feel that by having CNBC on I have my pulse on the bottom 20% of the gene pool."  -- Rudolf E. Havenstein@RudyHavenstein

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:03 | 4253903 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Hah! Funny comment and sublimely funny handle.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:08 | 4254094 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

I agree. The way to answer Liesman when he says "Where are the bad effects?" Is to answer: "It's just like living off credit cards. Everything is fine and dandy until your card gets declined. Then it goes from everything is fine to lights out in a single moment". 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:41 | 4254224 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Lies-man.  Fitting name for someone paid to get on TV and parrot govt lies "no inflation".

These people have no principles and no soul.  They'd sell their mother for a paycheck.

But 98% of Americans are the same way, and that's why America isn't worth saving.

And yes you're right, everything goes along seemingly well till the credit card get's declined, or in this case the currency collapses, which will be just as sudden ...and nobody could have seen it coming of course.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:20 | 4254873 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The really dangerous ones believe their own bullshit. When they present their opinions to the public as fact and do it with energy and emotion, the sheeple buy the rhetoric and will parrot it to one and all. We are doomed as no one thinks for themselves anymore. The advent of the internet hasn't helped as you can have an answer to virtually any question in under 0.034523 seconds. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 14:38 | 4254590 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Jim Grant was the older brother from College visiting the 8th Graders for lunch. The dessert sucked. For the1950s videokiddies, like Sidney Fields obliged to listen and learn from Lou Costello.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:07 | 4253720 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Jim Grant is great but he is no Jake the Snake Roberts.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:48 | 4254029 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:22 | 4254881 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Perhaps Ric Flair rings a bell?


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:51 | 4254038 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I've said it before, when this motherfucker blows it is going to be spectacular. The perverse thing is, the bastards who have benefitted the most from it probably won't feel anything ( unless they are pulled out of their Rolls Royce's and beheaded like a neo french revolution ). But I can't wait to see what stooges like LIEsman and Paul Robin Krugman have to say when the tide goes out and their babydicks are exposed.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:08 | 4254328 alangreedspank
alangreedspank's picture

Agreed, but when it hits, I think the free market reaper, as Stockman calls it, will erase and recall all ill gotten profits. It will hurt them, but the government's next response will make sure no pain is felt.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:55 | 4256412 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

"...It will hurt them, but the government's next response will make sure no pain is felt."

No pain felt by the current crop of successful lobbyists who continuously report on the efficacy of the contributions they so direct.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 05:59 | 4256386 JerseyJoe
JerseyJoe's picture

Agreed but like Communist apologists before them, they will say, "They didn't go far enough."  But then the apologists got a look at Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge - that finally shut them up (for a few months at least).   What will finally disgrace these socialist, confetti printing idiots?   A trillion dollar coin didn't.   How Krugman - that rat-faced creep - can show his face after that is beyond me.  

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:44 | 4254237 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

liesman, lies, man.

this pride in staving off inflation holds no water for two major reasons, besides of course not counting in energy and food. 

for one, we export our inflation courtesy of the dollar being the world reserve currency.  and we all know that is changing.  two, the QE has gone directly to the banks who have done nothing to create loans for people or businesses, but rather have taken these funds to the investment casino to enrich themselves, thus the obvious inflation in art, exclusive real estate, and all the other assets only the wealthiest can buy.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 04:26 | 4256319 AngelEyes00
AngelEyes00's picture

A sort of dead silence and blank stares as Grant responds to question about where inflation is, "it's in art, farm land, ferrari's."  That nailed Liesman to the wall.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:04 | 4253693 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

LIESman is the ultimate FED shill and cheerleader. 

Funny to see him get called out today by Jim Grant and Joe Kernan.  Even BJ Becky and Sorkin were against LIESman today.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:04 | 4253708 The Limerick King
The Limerick King's picture



Morons are questioning Grant

Their thoughts are an ignorant rant

Dimwitted shills

High on blue pills

When asked to debate him, they can't

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:11 | 4253920 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Stevie Boy took quite a chance

Advantage is clearly Jim Grant's

The producer, half awake,

Says "Cut to a break"

As Liesman has sharted his pants

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:48 | 4254030 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Baghdad Steve

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 02:01 | 4256175 prains
prains's picture

would love to join in on this spectacular rant but for some reason can't stop being drunk instead

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:07 | 4254090 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

The line " I came here to talk not to listen " was hilarious.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:00 | 4253697 Truther
Truther's picture


"Jim Grant Slams Steve Liesman"

More like fucks him over....

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:03 | 4253701 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Amazed they even let Grant on the show. Kind of contradicts the propaganda.

What is up with that ?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:09 | 4253731 Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

They think they will bring him on as a whipping boy, but it's kind of hard to fuck with the truth.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:18 | 4253760 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:12 | 4253739 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

Ratings are in the tank.  Sheeple are tuning the propaganda out as they are not experiencing what they are told they are experiencing.  Critical thinkers tune in just for entertainment as one minute the cheerleaders will say the economy is taking off like a rocket and the next minute they say that the FED shouldn't taper until 2099 and Congress is crazy for not extending unemployment uninsurance to 520 weeks.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:26 | 4254897 Keyser
Keyser's picture

It actually struck me the other afternoon when I had Fast Money on the tube and Melissa made the point that MSNBC was their "sister" station. Pretty much sums up the editorial content policy at CNBC. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:24 | 4253784 viator
viator's picture

So that when this all goes down the drain the central planning shills can say see "we told you so." That way they can explicate the subsequent chapter in the adventures of central planning with reputations ostensibly intact.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:30 | 4253792 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Amazed they even let Grant on the show. Kind of contradicts the propaganda.

Grant was their token disenting opinion.  They invite folks on who they know will have an opposing view and then shout over top of them until they are "out of time".   It's similar to Fox "fair and balanced".

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:05 | 4253905 PT
PT's picture

<--- Green arrows for Papasmurf  (his was not working)

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 14:39 | 4254609 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Gargamel fukkin broke his green arrow.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:53 | 4254050 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Exactly...  they have a stable of the dissenters who get cycled through...  if it's not him, then it's taleb, bass, schiff, faber, etc...  Personally, I prefer Grant's presentation because he's clearly a step above as far as understanding and scientific fundamentals/academics...  I think many of the other guests/dissenters are more intuitive thinkers/anecdotal experience hipshooters (traders), not necessarily wrong (and tending to arrive at the same conclusion), just a different approach...  and the fabers of the world tend to get a lot of traction simply because of outlandish presentation/character...  Jim Grant has the tv personality of a tree stump, but still manages to be captivating discussing the minutia of bonds...  difficult chore... 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 14:35 | 4254596 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Let's not forget that Dr. Faber made Billions of dollars being righter than other people on major market decisions. He doesn't just get by on "outlandish presentation"; most of which I suspect is just his native accent.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 17:07 | 4255059 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yeah, he got the name Dr. Doom from his accent...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:11 | 4254107 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Trying to appeal to Mr. Grant's subscriber base. That's why he's on the show. Steve fratboy Liesman just screwed the pooch.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:03 | 4254317 resurger
resurger's picture

They are trying to @Belie@ the guy. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:03 | 4253702 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

cnbc is irrelevant

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:04 | 4253704 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Jim Grant uses the common sense of telescopic vision, Liesman is a celestial mechanic, minted by the dozen when Galileo Galilei was pointing out and getting drowned out.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:02 | 4253710 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture



LIESman is a fucking cocksucking jerk

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:03 | 4253711 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Fuck off, Lies-man!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:05 | 4253712 AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

It's that same sh_t as always. Now get this; Sh_t trickles down, and money trickels UP. You give money to the top and it just stays there. Give the same money to the bottem and it's gone, on it's way to the top.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:06 | 4253724 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture
An American horror based on a true story. “I was trying to talk to the guy on the phone and he’s like, ‘You’re going to have to calm down. I can’t understand what you’re saying.’ And I’m like, ‘Well you don’t understand.’ But it was, it was awful. It was probably the worst feeling.”
Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:14 | 4253746 kito
kito's picture

fonz, cnbc and yahoo news?????? if i didnt know any better, id swear you were hardcore sheeple.....

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:45 | 4254018 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

That's better.....

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:03 | 4254078 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

I'd say the onion is spot on. " it will help the local economies, but they will be broke and devastated in 18 months" the krugman dream come true!! Maybe next we can have a small business bubble. Who needs fundamentals when the S&P is at all time highs.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:43 | 4254240 Tanzhosen
Tanzhosen's picture

Here's another one from the onion last week that might hit even closer to home with ZH'ers ;),34815/

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 00:53 | 4256070 Frozen
Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:08 | 4253725 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

These morons should all have their names noted and a front seat when the hanging starts...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:13 | 4253749 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

They will be made to build them first, and someone needs to test that the "drop" is right.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:25 | 4253776 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture


Tie them to the bumper, crank up some banjo music on the car stereo, and take them for a ride around the block while the kids pelt them with snowballs . 


Edit: well, empty their pockets first. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:19 | 4253767 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

"names noted and a front seat"

I really don't think the process will be that organized, except on a Mel Brooks or SNL skit. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:59 | 4254297 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

I'm sorry that the degree of anger caused by this has gotten to the point of extra-judicial executions being called for.  There are so many shades of criminality and complicity (more than half voted for Obama, almost half receiving Government bennefits of some kind or another, FIRe and unconsitutional Gov. employees), the number of truely 100% inocent victims is probably a small fraction of the US Population.

In the spirit of John 8:7  "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." I hope many of you will look into the Truth and Reconciliation tribunals that South Africa set up post-apartheid.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 17:50 | 4255161 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

I hope many of you will look into the Truth and Reconciliation tribunals that South Africa set up post-apartheid

It'll be a cold day in hell before I look to South Africa for anything except another example of Africans fucking something up beyond belief.

By the way, when are they going to have a second round of Truth and Reconciliation tribunals to hold the current crop of blacks who've wrecked the country responsible? Oh that's right - never. 

Spare me your bleeding heart bullshit. 

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 00:26 | 4256020 Crawdaddy
Crawdaddy's picture

MT I go way back as a trapper so i see you as a brother in arms.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 00:50 | 4256061 honestann
honestann's picture

Okay, here I am with my stone.  But what's the point?  One freaking stone?  Maybe 100 tons of anti-matter would be a good start.

You know what?  If 90% of the earth population deserves to die, then justice is for 90% of the earth population to die.  So whatever that number is, 1%, 5%, 10%, 25%, 50%, 90%... so be it - and the world will be an infinitely better place thereafter.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:07 | 4253726 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Stevie is a well paid shill, though. He knows well which side of his bread is buttered.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:30 | 4253793 Typing Typer
Typing Typer's picture

Yes, that was really obvious the way he threw in that intentionally obtuse "well, I thought the criticism of the Fed is that it was hurting savers!", right after Grant exposed everything going wrong with the QE agenda! Way to deflate and confuse as many sheep as possible!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:52 | 4255010 Keyser
Keyser's picture

I understand the good-cop vs bad-cop tactic used by the intelligencia in order to extract information, but the good-cop vs stupid-cop scenario is a new one on me. 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:10 | 4253736 curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

I wish Steve Liesman would get the hint already and crawl under the rock he crawled out from under....  Then we all get to take turns stomping on that rock....

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 01:43 | 4256156 mt paul
mt paul's picture


be nice to rocks..

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 07:33 | 4256424 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Liesman found his joy covering the Dead; that's more like a grave blanket than being under a rock, but no spinners dancing tonight.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:13 | 4253742 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

How much does the Fed pay Liesman to be such a tool?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:11 | 4253743 BigSimes
BigSimes's picture

Reallity: Manipulated Markets will not end until a massive act of urban thuggery jolts the PTB into panic, which then unleashes the out of control monster.

I've been following this tug of war between QE and pre-QE economic life and it is quite clear - we the rational people are alone until the whole charade goes down; and then we are all alone.

Roll out the DIY Guillotines, anyone?

Can we make Guillotines with 3D Printers?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:52 | 4254033 Emergency Ward
Emergency Ward's picture

Senator Elizabeth Warren, pre-beheading, "You didn't build that."

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:31 | 4254176 kurt
kurt's picture

Don't bother, too complex. Are you going to clean up the blood and shit? It's unsanitary. Put tight grandma rubber underpants on them and use the "Killing Fields" plastic bag over the head. These are two modern conveniences. Slip them into a Fema coffin, voila'. No muss, no fuss, no guillotine, no hangin' tree, no gas chamber, no bullets. 

Why do you always make things so complex? It's making me mad at you!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 14:20 | 4254537 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Dude, hope I never get on your bad side.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:54 | 4255017 Keyser
Keyser's picture

So, no sharks with frickin' lazer beams on their heads I guess. 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:16 | 4253751 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

liesman is the prophet of lies

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:32 | 4253766 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Liesman is such a Fed ball holding piece of shit.

I don't even like Grant, but he owned him here. 

Yes, Liesman is right: we didn't get our "QE inflation".....but that's only because they are counting foods and other consumer goods.  In cities, rent is up.  Grant mentioned that art has exploded.  Bitcoin has exploded.  Healthcare costs are going to go up once the ACA is in full effect.  Job creation and wages are stagnant.

One great way to ensure prices of food and other services is to centrally plan both demand AND wages.  The Fed has controlled wage levels behind the scenes (working as an arm for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce) since the 1970s.  Yes, you can control inflation if you suppress wages; just ask the Bank of China.

And what's going to happen once they pull back a little?  Nevermind completely stopping printing all together (which they will never do b/c they can't).

QE is for Greenwich, CT and those who defend the Fed are *paid* to say otherwise. 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:48 | 4253861 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

your confused...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:25 | 4253786 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

Bummer...and I tuned in to hear Tepper

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:27 | 4253787 Pig Circus
Pig Circus's picture

I'm still trying to figure out why a week ago the Liesman claimed Taper is coming tomorrow which caused a four day sell-off. Was he instructed by the Fed to claim that? Then when no Taper is announced tomorrow we can rally another 5% by year end capping off one of the best years eva?

I wonder if one day we will find out the truth...That liesman is the Feds Dan Dorfman.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:27 | 4253789 RubberMartyr
RubberMartyr's picture

I would so like to punch Steve Liesman in the face. 



Walk up to him and go 'Hi Steve, I love you pseudo-economic and simplified thinking. You disgust me and every chinese person working for a dolar per day. Then BANG, hit him right on the nose"

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:28 | 4253794 Blues Traveler
Blues Traveler's picture

"There is no inflation for the las 5 years, the government numbers show no inflation" Liesman.  He is correct that the goverment #s don't show inflation. Liesman must be an attorney.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 17:01 | 4255035 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Yeah, and the BLS shows the unemployment rate at 7%. They are proven to be fucking liars, but the scale of their charade is truly mind boggling. 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:30 | 4253798 Quintus
Quintus's picture

"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is"

-- Winston Churchill

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 07:23 | 4256436 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

"When a film is finished; it is indestructible." - director Francesco Rosi

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:32 | 4253799 B2u
B2u's picture

Oh great....LIESman opened his mouth and I projectile vomited....FUCK LIESman...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:41 | 4253810 GoBadgers
GoBadgers's picture

"I can listen to you at home staying in bed"


I Love Jim Grant.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:37 | 4253826 caShOnlY
caShOnlY's picture

we have lived in a society where "it's all good" has been the motto for 30 years.   Liesman just continues this mantra to pacify the masses. 

We have to look at the other part of the mantra "...unil it isn't".   That's why we we stack: gold, silver, bullets, beans, butter............... 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:41 | 4253831 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

The 7:55am dialogue with Jim Grant on CNBC this morning is worthy of listening to and transcribing.  Articulate and concise. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:00 | 4253885 Q-Q-Q
Q-Q-Q's picture

'Jim Grant is right, but unfortunately his arguments are too articulate and long-winded for Liesman's small brain'.

Lets not forget the average attention span of the CNBC viewer, everything has to be crafted to fit the audience it's aimed at. CNBC grows the crop for the banksters to harvest.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:13 | 4253924 Brokenarrow
Brokenarrow's picture

I would give the last month of my life to get a "get out of jail free" card that allowed me to give Stevie-boy a beating. I hate that mf shilling, lying, banker blowing, wall st ass licking, cocksucker.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:20 | 4253945 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"it is the poor who are more likely to consume. And logically with their purchasing power being funneled to the rich with every $85 billion in monthly debt monetization, they purchase less and less."


Sub Prime auto loans say otherwise. 


More of the middle class is joining the poor, resulting in less income to spend.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:05 | 4254083 Mike in GA
Mike in GA's picture

SubPrime auto loans tell the story that consumption is being pushed down the food chain.  I wondered how there were so many new mercedes owners around in my town and probably 75% Obama voters, then I read the subprime #s and realized they are allowing anyone with a pulse to buy and lease. 

Plus, the manufacturers are holding ever-higher inventories for that wonderful day that sales go to the moon, I dunno, based on rising interest rates?  Doesn't make sense to me, either. 

I love that Grant said the Fed can change how things look but they can't change what things ARE. 

This cannot end well.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:21 | 4253951 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"The Fed can change how things look, it cannot change what things are," is the single-sentence summation of the mirage that the Fed's "dangerous monetary manipulation" has created."


This has been going on for decades, though.  A century, in fact.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:27 | 4253963 Big Johnson
Big Johnson's picture

Leisman douche bag

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:29 | 4253967 pitchpole
pitchpole's picture

Arguing with idiots is a fool's game.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:39 | 4253989 swanpoint
swanpoint's picture

The FED *really* needs a better apologist shill than Liesman. Hey, Liesman, how much do people pay for your market analysis?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:51 | 4254042 B.J. Worthy
B.J. Worthy's picture

Liesman lies, man.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:52 | 4254044 Apostle of Unknown
Apostle of Unknown's picture

In a couple of years they'll be bringing back this guy for apologies. Not that we'll get any. Peter Schiff is still waiting for his penny from Laffer.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:56 | 4254052 SandiaMan
SandiaMan's picture

I can lay in bed and listen to you! LOL

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 15:26 | 4254058 sschu
sschu's picture


It is interesting that 2 years ago (or there abouts) the idea that the Fed was manipulating markets etal was a taboo and ridiculed subject in the MSM.  Now they have to enable guys like Liesman and Hilsenrath (sp) to tell us why this is a good thing.  Denial is no longer even a considered strategy. 

The Fed does not like to be in the spot light, they prefer to be under the radar.  The fact that they are no longer able to hide what is transpiring is revealing.

The game is nearly up.



Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:59 | 4254063 wcvarones
wcvarones's picture

On the other hand, with all that debt, the poor could really benefit from a massive, one-time devaluation.

10-for-1 anyone?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:04 | 4254069 IREN Colorado
IREN Colorado's picture

No inflation? Leisman is quoting official BLS statistics which are developed to show very little inflation (so the Go'bment does not have to increase its SSI payments). How do you reason with someone like that? MSNBC needs to become part of PBS.

In real terms annual inflation in Colorado Springs was:

2011  8.5%

2012  8.7%

Denver Colorado was:

2011  9.1%

2012  9.1%

See Chapwood Index:



Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:13 | 4254116 gmcniff
gmcniff's picture

I just hope Grant is around to see this whole facade come crashing down.  Actually, I hope I'm still around. 

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 07:38 | 4256446 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Face the truth: nobody cares but those whom you are helping.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:13 | 4254119 whirlaway
whirlaway's picture

Well, the few remaining sane people are being hounded by the crazy ones - "Admit that you are wrong!  Admit that you are wrong!!  You have been wrong for 5 years!!".

And together with FB being added to S&P 500, this is beginning to look a lot like Christmas... of 1999!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:15 | 4254124 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

The FED has decreased the value of a dollar by approx. 95%.  What more does anyone have to say?  Now, of course, there have been beneficiaries of this disappearing act but they certainly don't live on Main Street....

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:56 | 4254290 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Actually it's closer to 98%, but what's a few measely percentage points between friends?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:26 | 4254156 Atlantis Consigliore
Atlantis Consigliore's picture

Chicago Michael Jordan Mansion house auction yesterday;  $ 13 Min Reserve Bid  vs for sale of $ 26 million?

Auction?  no bidders 0  Zilch, none.

Must be location, said the FibuRealtor

Real estate is an investment, giggle. 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:37 | 4254419 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Who wants to buy an expensive property made for a basketball player in Illinois, the tax and spend state?

A bankrupt state where already high taxes will keep going up.


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:28 | 4254168 cooperbry
cooperbry's picture

QE has been a great success.  They should tripple it.  While they're at it, they should increase the minimum wage to $50/hr...  Afterall, we are in a "recovery".


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:50 | 4254265 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

It is obvious that the FED has manipulated the thermometer for the 1% but has not changed the weather for the bottom 80%.

i have watched for over a decade the big money change residence again and again across the globe in search of profit while leaving behind victims.

To add insult to injury that profit is taxed less and less as tax havens get fatter and fatter while the equity of society is drained.

Hard to say if things will explode or whether we will one day resemble North Korea.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:04 | 4254313 sgorem
sgorem's picture

i'm beginning to believe that the Liesman is starting to believe all the bullshit he spews out. anyway, you guys have a great CHRISTmas.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:13 | 4254356 bourbondave
bourbondave's picture

It is rather bizarre to consider the arrogance it takes for a business reporter (even a longtime one) to think you can go toe-to-toe with someone like Jim Grant.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 14:02 | 4254488 Firing Pin
Firing Pin's picture

Liesman is truly delusional. He reminds me of a Nazi party member...blindly swearing allegience to his masters.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:12 | 4254344 no more banksters
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