Jim Grant Slams Steve Liesman "The Fed Can Change How Things Look, But Not What They Are"

Tyler Durden's picture


"I got up this early to talk, not to listen," Jim Grant berates Fed-apologist Steve Liesman as the two go head-to-head over the fallacy that QE has been a success. "The Fed can change how things look, it cannot change what things are," is the single-sentence summation of the mirage that the Fed's "dangerous monetary manipulation" has created.

Arguing that Grant is wrong because, as we saw this morning with CPI, there is no inflation, Grant blasts back pointing to the massive inflation in asset prices, art, farmland, ferraris as indicative of who the Fed's policies have helped. Grant adds to the list of obvious bubbles and even Joe Kiernan jumps in on his side against Liesman's insistence that the Fed is omnipotent (because the currency hasn't crashed... yet).

150 seconds of perfect disequilibrium at the pretense of central planning...

And, as we noted previously, here's why..."The Rich Hold Assets, The Poor Have Debt"

This chart from Citi's Matt King pretty much sums it up (and contrary to what Magic Money Tree growers will tell you, debt is not wealth).

Why is it important? Simple - contrary to the Fed's flawed DSGE models, it is the poor who are more likely to consume. And logically with their purchasing power being funneled to the rich with every $85 billion in monthly debt monetization, they purchase less and less. As the slow but steady contraction in the economy over the past five years has proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

But hey: at least Hamptons' houses have never been more expensive and the Russell2000 keeps on hitting daily all time highs. Thank you "wealth effect."

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Tue, 12/17/2013 - 09:58 | 4253689 unrulian
unrulian's picture

Nice slam...try a DDT next time

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:01 | 4253695 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

DDT doesn't kill slugs.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:14 | 4253752 Mi Naem
Mi Naem's picture

Its fer dem cock-er-oaches. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:24 | 4253772 Doña K
Doña K's picture


If you are in the biusiness to make money, change your tune. People will flock. The truth will liberate you. You will be able to look yourselves in the mirror.

If you are in business for idealism, You are doomed.

There is still time. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:34 | 4253817 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

The correlation between Liesman getting botoxed and becoming the mouthpiece for the Fed is 1.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:34 | 4253957 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Was an embarrassment to watch, as Grant made Liesman look like a complete fool.  Not that being a fool is bad or anything, just that fools have no place challenging someone that knows what they're talking about.

Stevie lost any ounce of respect when he said: "Jim when are you going to stop beating the inflation drum and finally say Hey, maybe QE is working"?  Dummy.  A centrally planned economy and Steve wants to argue merit?  Absolute dummy!!!!

I only tuned in for Grant.  Didn't watch anything else on that crummy channel.

Thank you Jim for a great commentary.


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:37 | 4253985 SoilMyselfRotten
SoilMyselfRotten's picture

Gold just gapped lower again....damn manipulaturds

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:44 | 4254008 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Thought leader vs. Cheer leader!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:18 | 4254129 slotmouth
slotmouth's picture

Give me a Q!  Give me an E!  What's that spell?  More Ferraris.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:48 | 4254253 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Did you notice Jim Grant's jaw start to twitch just before he laid into Liesman?  For people like me who like to study body language that's "I'm gonna rip your f'ing head off and shit down you neck in 3...2...1..." 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:35 | 4254407 foodisgood
foodisgood's picture

Grant was there for a reason and it was not for logic and market fundalmentism.

CNBC is an entertainment network looking for ad dollars. Mr. Grant is not much different in his agenda.

We are the greater fools for following these schills.

IAMSLATTERY - and I shill for one fact. Capital can only come from the fruit of Labor.

You fokers are chasing the reversin to the mean (BTATFH, BTFD) and the biggest lie of how bonds and interest rates are in an inverse relationship the IS NOT based on a ireedemable promise.

Get a life and get to work.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:13 | 4254830 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Liesman conveniently leaves out the residual debt that is left over from all the QE pumping and who / how it's going to repaid. How did this monkey ever get a job on a financial network, I'll never know. Oh wait, he's on the same network as Jim Cramer. 'Nuff said. 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 18:18 | 4255238 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

I would have just beat LIESman with a hose.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 23:59 | 4255953 Supernova Born
Supernova Born's picture

QE has at least killed CNBC's ratings.

There is that.

Huzzah to Mr. Grant.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 04:31 | 4256314 Lore
Lore's picture

For his constant interruptions alone, Liesman deserves a smack -- Kernan, too. 

These aggravating little blurbs are worth keeping for posterity.  People in successful parts of the world will look back on these shallow buffoons and wonder how America fell so far. 


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 05:41 | 4256377 JerseyJoe
JerseyJoe's picture

Thanks for the lemonade line - priceless.  And so spot-on to help people WTFU - I am sure we know people who don't seem to get the gravity of the situation because they listen to ideological fools like LIESman.  (He so epitomizes the Marxist media.)   

I loved Grants comment (paraphasing) - "If I wanted to listen to you, I could have stayed at home in bed. I can hear you anytime."  

Bravo Mr Grant! Stuffed!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:52 | 4256410 WarriorClass
Wed, 12/18/2013 - 08:03 | 4256464 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture





Jim Grant finally shows up to the party.


Like....where you been dude?

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:50 | 4254268 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Key viewer participation at 39k...........FAIL

Oh, and they dropped the dreaded N-Word.......................


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:00 | 4254642 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

What's more amusing than to listen to the experts on low volume when my louder dreamy music melts the true tragegy as it is; you can catch the rare big tuna with a brain by just looking and waiting a month or so.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:02 | 4253893 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

No Dona K.... they are doomed and will stay doomed.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:31 | 4254170 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture


If you are in the biusiness to make money, change your tune. People will flock."


"The people" have no money.  So this would not be a profitable procedure.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 02:25 | 4256215 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

No money necessary. Eyeballs is what counts

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:53 | 4254466 Froman
Froman's picture

Will never happen since Comcast owns the network...Comcast execs are POS to begin with but as long as they have the captive sheeple paying up each month to have this crap piped into their residences it will continue.   Sheeple pay >$100+ for cable/internet/phone (aka CC "Triple Play") each month-> cable fees used to pay execs and talent that spew the crap to the sheeple injected with advertisements for necessities like "Sham-wow" -> Comcast gets additional $$$ from advertisers to ensure that the misinformation and socialist views of the Comcast executives headquartered in one of the bastions of progressiveness that is Los Angeles, New York or Philadelphia is delivered by a handicapped, veteran lesbian, who is a black, Hasidic Jew from the Philippines. Digest and repeat cycle.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:44 | 4253846 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Stevie boy needs a good ass whoopin ....

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:14 | 4253930 tbone654
tbone654's picture

can't whip his ass if he has some fed dick in it...

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:57 | 4256414 new game
new game's picture

a club wantabe

but stevie, the club dont want you 



are so



Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:20 | 4253763 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Always fun to see Liesman bitch-slapped-  sometimes just being louder than your guests isn't enough, Stevie.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:23 | 4253781 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

It's not very satisfying when Liesman is left for dead in the debate but is too stupid to know he lost.  It's like killing a zombie.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:48 | 4253860 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 07:54 | 4256466 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture




Good times...

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:04 | 4254080 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Steve Liesman, "Keep on Trucking",  Trucking on down the Mandarin's line.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:19 | 4254135 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

You have to remember, Liesman is a paid shill and part of his job to incite debate.   I'm sure he knows he looks bad, but at the end of the day, he has done his job and still takes home a big paycheck.  

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:43 | 4254216 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

But that isn't HOW he's doing it.  He isn't presenting this as "The Fed's Opinion on the subject" he's presenting it as STEVE LIESMAN'S OPINION.  

In one case you're reporting somebody else's case for purpose of discussion, in the other you're basically being a shill, as you say.

It's a big difference.  He could get the same discussion going without being a jerk.  I COULD MAKE THAT DISCUSSION HAPPEN WITHOUT BEING A JERK.  He chooses not to.  Any wonder people want to punch him through the TV screen?  Any wonder Jim Grant basically did it to him with words?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 06:46 | 4254578 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Better Steve Liesman than me to promote a rhetorical rant of circular reasoning rather than consider the opponent's point and earn the fat paycheck struggling with a thin tail rather than the fat ones that keep coming; rather like the rich man directing a living hell while burning in the warming flames of all its infernal glory.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 01:32 | 4256133 mt paul
mt paul's picture

you couldn't pay me enough

to look that bad..

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:39 | 4253832 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Grant handed LIESman his ass.
You Go Froderick!

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 13:19 | 4254366 tbone654
tbone654's picture

And somehow after Grant hands him his ass...  Liesman's responds -- "when are you (grant) going to admit you are wrong?"

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 05:27 | 4256371 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

The only one worse than Lies Man is Jon Harwood.  

Sad, little crying fuck.  

Careful, don't talk about his infidelities.  He gets kinda snappy.

Wait, no...

... there is one worse than both.

Jay the Carnie.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:05 | 4253718 Popo
Popo's picture

Jim Grant is right, but unfortunately his arguments are too articulate and long-winded for Liesman's small brain.   A better, more succinct answer would have been more fitting for the sheeple watching TV.

Obviously, preserving asset values makes those WITH assets richer, and those without them relatively poorer.   I heart Jim Grant, but the man is too damn educated for CNBC.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:38 | 4253828 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture


"I feel that by having CNBC on I have my pulse on the bottom 20% of the gene pool."  -- Rudolf E. Havenstein@RudyHavenstein

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:03 | 4253903 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Hah! Funny comment and sublimely funny handle.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:08 | 4254094 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

I agree. The way to answer Liesman when he says "Where are the bad effects?" Is to answer: "It's just like living off credit cards. Everything is fine and dandy until your card gets declined. Then it goes from everything is fine to lights out in a single moment". 


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 12:41 | 4254224 Drifter
Drifter's picture

Lies-man.  Fitting name for someone paid to get on TV and parrot govt lies ...like "no inflation".

These people have no principles and no soul.  They'd sell their mother for a paycheck.

But 98% of Americans are the same way, and that's why America isn't worth saving.

And yes you're right, everything goes along seemingly well till the credit card get's declined, or in this case the currency collapses, which will be just as sudden ...and nobody could have seen it coming of course.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:20 | 4254873 Keyser
Keyser's picture

The really dangerous ones believe their own bullshit. When they present their opinions to the public as fact and do it with energy and emotion, the sheeple buy the rhetoric and will parrot it to one and all. We are doomed as no one thinks for themselves anymore. The advent of the internet hasn't helped as you can have an answer to virtually any question in under 0.034523 seconds. 

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 14:38 | 4254590 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Jim Grant was the older brother from College visiting the 8th Graders for lunch. The dessert sucked. For the1950s videokiddies, like Sidney Fields obliged to listen and learn from Lou Costello.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 10:07 | 4253720 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Jim Grant is great but he is no Jake the Snake Roberts.

Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:48 | 4254029 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 16:22 | 4254881 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Perhaps Ric Flair rings a bell?


Tue, 12/17/2013 - 11:51 | 4254038 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I've said it before, when this motherfucker blows it is going to be spectacular. The perverse thing is, the bastards who have benefitted the most from it probably won't feel anything ( unless they are pulled out of their Rolls Royce's and beheaded like a neo french revolution ). But I can't wait to see what stooges like LIEsman and Paul Robin Krugman have to say when the tide goes out and their babydicks are exposed.

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