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Peter Schiff Explains The Harsh Reality Of Minimum Wage Hikes To The US Public

Tyler Durden's picture


We have tried a number of times (here, here, and here) to explain the simple math behind the populist call for a higher minimum wage (that appears to be founding the President's new class warfare) but in the following clip, we hope, Peter Schiff visits a local Wal-Mart in the hopes of explaining that magic money trees are not real.


Posing as representatives of "15 for 15," a make-believe organization advocating that Walmart raise prices by 15% and use the extra cash to pay its low-skilled workers $15 per hour (Schiff suggests that the surcharge be added to customer's bills at checkout, just like a gratuity at a restaurant).

Not surprisingly few shoppers supported his cause. Even those who felt Walmart workers should be paid more did not want to pay higher prices themselves to make it possible.

Perhaps, as Schiff notes, those demanding higher wages for Walmart's workers should consider the importance of low prices to Walmart's customers.



Those who advocate across the board wage increases assume that the company can meet the additional payroll by simply dipping into profits. But with just $6,600 profit per employee any significant raise in pay will largely cut into profits, greatly alter return on equity, and force dramatic changes in the company’s operations. In truth the kind of pay raises envisioned by the activists, must lead to price increases. Advocates assume that shoppers will gladly support higher prices if they lead to higher wages for workers not higher profit for shareholders. Mr. Schiff’s experiment shows this hope to be delusional. If Wal-Mart loses customers, it will invariably lose workers. Do progressives assume that workers earning no pay would be less of a burden on society than a worker earning low pay?

Mr. Schiff would certainly agree that it is increasingly difficult, if not impossible, to raise a family on entry level Wal-Mart pay. But he argues that such jobs were never intended to be careers, but simply stepping stones for low skilled workers to gain entry into the labor force. The fact that the economy is now providing no other stones on which to step is not the fault of Wal-Mart. Instead, the better paying jobs that used to form the backbone of the middle class have been strangled by an out of control government that strangles businesses with excessive taxation and regulation


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Wed, 12/18/2013 - 19:52 | 4259101 prains
prains's picture

NO! the middle class got fucked by a globalist wage arbitrage that .Gov supported corprofascist america to outsource to the rest of the world because they're 100% OWNED by the same corporations.



Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:12 | 4259146 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

While there is some truth to what you say, Peter is also right in his point about over regulated. You would not believe the amount of hoops we had to jump through in order to get our small firm up and running.

What is really shameful is to see how hard people will fight a business expressing interest in building around here. Most of the major employers have left, and these idiots will fight tooth and nail to prevent anything new from coming in. In the mean time crime rates are going up and the infrastructure going to shit.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:14 | 4259156 kito
kito's picture

i deserve a sandwich

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:17 | 4259165 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Lol.... Not this time.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:25 | 4259185 ACP
ACP's picture

Of course they don't have an extra 15% Peter, when they pay for their all their shit with EBT!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:41 | 4259230 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Bitcoin is down, so free payouts of bitcoins are up at

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:23 | 4259314 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Peter Schiff has finally devolved into Mark Dice

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:42 | 4259369 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

And yet, your average joe blow consumer has yet to evolve from the Cro-Magnon species.


But, who really thinks that even $15 an hour is a living wage in the new normal?


I doubt the vast majority of the people in the Schiff video were making anywhere near $15 an hour, or not much more than that.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:18 | 4259415 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

I stil can't understand how forcing the world's richest people to pay their employees enough to not need governmnet assistance is so evil.  My lowest paid employee makes $12.50/hr, because that's what he's worth.  For less than that, I get unreliable morons who don't show up on time or they steal.  If your business requires $7/hr employees to turn a profit, maybe you shouldn't be in business.  If you pay minimum wage and earn more than a million, you're fucking parasite on a decent society.  Honestly, do you want to live in China? India? Russia?  Is that our example?  Switzerland, Sweden, The Netherlands and many other countries have strict wage laws, less inequality, and as a result, an overall happier population.

My former business partner was a creationist libertarian, and he loved to rail against the miniumum wage.  I never quite understood how he'd square that with his God, but he insisted the workers at the McDonalds would be better off without it.   After a few years I offered him to stay, on commission only, so he would only take home what he produced, and his income would be in line with his philosophy.  I like not having a partner anymore.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:44 | 4259505 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Your employees can problably walk and chew gum at the same time. They might even have been able to spell their names correctly on their SATs.

I'm not sure some Walmarties even know how to spell SAT, or even dial 911.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:58 | 4259542 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Your employees can problably walk and chew gum at the same time.

Well that is one of the qualifications, but it misses the point.   There is no housing available less than $500/month.  There is no grocery list that one person can survive on at less than $200/month.  There is no viable transportation below $100/month.  There is no health insurance at less than $300/month.  Even if you do nothing but eat, piss, breathe and work, your minium needs are $1100 per month and at $7/hr you need 40 hours a week just to stay alive, which most companies won't give you.  It's really damn hard at the bottom.  These are not the people we need to be punishing, and most of them are not lazy, or drug addicts, they are good people who want to move up in life.  Can we really convince ourselves that Lloyd Blankfein is worth a million times more to our society than a farmer or blacksmith?  

Even if your ideology is harsh enough to justify this, look at it practically.  When you don't pay someone enough to live, they steal, which puts them in jail, which costs your town 10K/month.  It's a bad deal for us all.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:26 | 4259629 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

What you describe are not the symptoms wages being too low. Rather they are the symptom of currency destruction. The natural tendency of prices is mildly deflationary. PERIOD!

"There is no housing available less than $500/month."

Horseshit. Creativity and lack of government regulations are all one needs to obtain shelter for <$20K. Creativity and .gov regulations are plentiful.

"There is no grocery list that one person can survive on at less than $200/month"

Horseshit. Beans and rice are still cheap, and last a long time. Dandelions are plentiful if you do not poison them with weed killer.

"There is no health insurance at less than $300/month"

Again.. this is a Dawt Gov intervention issue.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:37 | 4259650 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

right, so a person starting at the bottom should be creative in their living situation (not having a livable home) and eat nothing but beans and rice.  You've obviously done neither, or wouldn't write something like that.  

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:59 | 4259665 superflex
superflex's picture

I stil can't understand how forcing the world's richest people to pay their employees enough to not need governmnet assistance is so evil.

In 2012 the CEO of Walmart made $20.7 million. Walmart has about 2 million employees (as far as I can tell, this is only counting the employees in the American stores). So, if you divided the CEO’s entire pay among the employees they’d each get $10.35 more per year- that’s not quite 20 cents per week; a half a cent per hour for full time employees. Woohoo.

If you pay minimum wage and earn more than a million, you're fucking parasite on a decent society.

Look at a paystub of a WalMart employee and see how much the various governments” steal from every paycheck, and then tell me who the real parasite is.

Boy, that was easy.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:57 | 4259856 PT
PT's picture

Was Schiff talking to minimum wage earners?  Perhaps he should have rephrased the question:  "If your wages doubled, would you really give a shit if prices went up by 15%?"

Now Schiff needs to survey some minimum-wage-paying employers:  "Would you mind doubling the wages of your minimum-wage employees if it would only result in a 15% price increase PLUS all of your minimum-wage-customers also got their pay doubled?"

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:16 | 4259887 PT
PT's picture

20 years ago the mortgage on a good house was half the minimum wage.  These days, the cheapest house in the cheapest suburb costs 100% of the minimum wage.

 "But that's okay because the fwee markits take care of everything!"  And high real estate prices don't affect demand or the economy at all, no sirree!  It's all them minimum wage earners causing the grief!




</sarc>  (because I know certain ZHers won't realize without the tag) 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:27 | 4259961 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

All those protestors out front are union schills, NOT WalMart employees.

The WalMart employees have voted down unions every time.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:39 | 4267926 PT
PT's picture

I never went to uni protests because I was too busy studying.  Doesn't mean I disagreed with the protesters.

People tend to worry about where their next meal is coming from.  It can stop them from doing what's best for the long term. 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:36 | 4259754 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You've obviously done neither, or wouldn't write something like that. 

Evidence please? You are arguing from emotion, and engaging in personal attacks. You and the rest of the commie red arrow free shyt fucking brigade. Argue the points please.

...and yes I have fucking lived off been and rice, while putting myself through school. I also had roomates so that rent was cheaper.

fucking NEXT.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:47 | 4259677 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Dandelions are plentiful if you do not poison them with weed killer.

So poor people should have to eat dandelions to survive?  You are beyond cruel, I hope no one in your family every struggles.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:40 | 4259758 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Why do you not like dandelions? Have you ever looked at their nutritional value compared to the average fare available via WIC or EBT?

No? Didn't think so. Get back to me when you have.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:48 | 4259772 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Extraordinarily high in vitamin A (beta carotine), as is lambs quarter...hell I eat 'em, possum, too.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:37 | 4259831 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

So poor people should have to eat dandelions to survive?  You are beyond cruel, I hope no one in your family every struggles.

Funny. I make a six figure income and I trap and eat beaver to feed my family. It's free, great tasting, readily available, steroid and hormone free. 

I offer a $1.99 "Learn to Trap" video on my website. Any man that is willing to work can feed his family. 

If I can make six figures and feed my family with what I catch, why can't others? 

Why should an employer be forced to provide for the existence of an employee when it is the government that has made existence so difficult?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:27 | 4259958 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

struggle is when you do everything right and still can't get ahead.


are walmart workers did/doing everything right?


illegal mexicans get $15/hour CASH for manual labor.


Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:14 | 4259886 jballz
jballz's picture






Who let this fucking moron off its leash?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:42 | 4259763 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So, WHY are govt-run schools producing citizens with so little value in the workplace?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:33 | 4259966 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

because wage slavery requires ignorance.


and workplace doesn't reward smarts but sociopaths.


you think Walmart wants to hire smart ZH readers or high school drop out just smart enough to shelf some boxes all day and be happy?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:28 | 4259823 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Your emotional platitudes do not change the laws of economics. They also do not alter the simple fact that you want to use the same mechanism to punish those people whom made their wealth by abusing that same mechanism.All you are doing is perpetuating the same damn cycle and giving someone else the political leverage to enrich themselves at the expense of someone else.


You are not fixing theproblem, you are merely playing musical chairs until the music stops. Not sure why your ideology will not let you understand this, but I do know that my brain tell's me very clearly that reality never works out the way you intend it, and you seem to be incapable of seeng or understanding it. That means it's more likely that you are the idealist here rather than any of the Libertarians...




Thu, 12/19/2013 - 08:54 | 4260202 kralizec
kralizec's picture

One major flaw in your logic.  In principle I know what you are saying and my small business experience says it is true, but the big flaw is GOVERNMENT.  You are competing with government and you cannot win, not in the environment the progressives in politics and the bureaucracy have set up with their cronies in Big Business and Wall Street.  The more you pay an employee the more they collect, the more they collect the larger government gets, the larger government gets the bigger its apetite gets...and the apetite is so huge that our earnings are not enough, the have to augment with massive amounts of debt, which stakes an additional claim on every taxpayer.  You cannot out-bid the government.  The entire game is rigged in their favor.  You may feel you and your employees are doing well, but your not doing as well as you should and nobody will be doing very well soon.  The answer isn't to keep pace with them, it is to break their pace, starve them and make them fall.  Not the answer you want to hear but there it is.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:06 | 4259848 PT
PT's picture

When 300 people line up for 20 jobs, there is NO excuse for hiring deadbeats.  In fact, low wages encourages hiring deadbeats because you don't lose too much money by keeping them.

Plenty of unemployed out there.  Why wouldn't the best potential employees get the job?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:27 | 4259956 Riprake
Riprake's picture

What makes you think they don't? The problem is, the 280 people who didn't get one of those 20 jobs don't take very well to your calling them deadbeats.

Also, some of them would be able to get a job, albeit for much lower pay, if not for the minimum wage having outlawed that kind of job. Some of them go ahead and encourage employers to break the law so they can get themselves some of those lower-paying jobs anyway. These black market employees are also known as illegal immigrants.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:07 | 4259579 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Yes, the only way to force the Worlds richest to pay their fair share, is Global governace, and the only way to do that is by creating a NWO.  That will save the World from the looming disaster.  Fuck any local politicians, they dont abide by our Laws and they're all the same anyhow.  What we need is much bigger.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:22 | 4259614 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Onward Soldiers, on to Victory!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:24 | 4259627 bidaskspread
bidaskspread's picture

So, if everyone raises to $12.50, won't you have to hire the idiots you don't want? You will need to pay more to get that talent you currently have. If you have that ability, why aren't you paying them that amount now? The three countries you named are happier because unlike the dollar the purchasing power has remained relatively flat.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:43 | 4259661 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

So, if everyone raises to $12.50, won't you have to hire the idiots you don't want?

No, I would just have a larger pool to hire from.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 10:58 | 4260579 bidaskspread
bidaskspread's picture

How would you have a larger pool to hire from? You should have the ability to hire anyone at 12.50 and below currently. I would make the case that you're pool would actually shrink without a wage increase on your end. If I was your competition, I might be closer to where some of your workers live. So to save gas, they take my job over yours since we are both paying 12.50. Or how about the guys that were paying $8.00. They see your guys and offer $13.00. The guys that were getting $20 an hour now see a less experienced worker getting close to the same pay and then they demand more. The guy making 40 an hour sees the 20 an hour around the same and demand more. Up and up it goes until someone says, " how can we expect someone to live off $12.50 an hour". It's purchasing power of your currency. If you could buy a steak,2 cocktails and a piece of pie for a dollar there would not be any arguments against 7.5 an hour being too low.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:10 | 4259806 Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

"My former business partner was a creationist libertarian.."

Holy shit.

Ignorant enough to buy into Bronze Age mythology, yet perceptive enough to understand the basic concepts of liberty.

That boy must be a whirling dervish of cognitive dissonance.



Thu, 12/19/2013 - 04:57 | 4260034 Riprake
Riprake's picture

Speak for yourself. Seems to me, evolutionists who want price controls must have some serious cognitive dissonance to believe in both survival of the fittest and in enforcing a "living wage" for those who aren't economically "fit" enough to earn one.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 09:24 | 4260258 Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

How predictable.

Start off with 'evolutionist' in a failed attempt to slander those who prefer reality to fantasy, then offer up a distraction in the form of a one-legged strawman from out of left field.


Thu, 12/19/2013 - 13:07 | 4260994 Riprake
Riprake's picture

You seem to be taking reality rather badly.

And might I remind you: slander is spoken. In print, it's libel.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:06 | 4262252 Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

You, sir, are seriously delusional- in more ways than one.



Thu, 12/19/2013 - 12:24 | 4260859 dock3511
dock3511's picture

It is not the business of Walmart or anyone else to pay a so-called living wage. Your linkage between a man's religion and his worker pay is illogical. 

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:07 | 4259274 CognacAndMencken
CognacAndMencken's picture



Numerous studies (recent: Ruetschlin and Traub) have proven that if WalMart were to forego their recent stock buybacks, it could afford to pay its workers $5.83 more per hour, putting them near $15/hour. Of course, Schiff is pretending that the only option is to pass the expense to the WMT consumer forcing them to pay more, which he knows won't fly since many of WMT's shoppers are reliant on those cheap items. He never once considers any other options. In fact though, there is another option: redirecting the $7.6B used this past year for a stock buyback, which was part of a larger $15B stock buyback program ok'd by the WMT board in June 2013 - these buybacks are ok'd and enacted yearly. There's nothing wrong with stock buybacks, but it would be nice is some money actually tricked down to the workers occasionally.   

I'm not sure how much money the WalMart family wants in their own coffers (currently at $100B+), but they might consider giving just a little more to their workers. With all the Fed's fungible liquidity finding every corner of the stock market, there's plenty of momentum to keep the WMT shareholders happy. It might be nice if some people at the bottom finally got a little drop of what the 1% have been bathing in.  

There are alternatives, Schiff!


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:53 | 4259396 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Of course workers are all at the mercy of heartless corporations.

Who doesn't want to pay a high school graduate or GED equivalent with no real skills $30 an hour to stock shelves and run a cash register, which by the way can easily be replaced with self checkout stations or RFID readers.

Let's find a way to impoverish a whole new class of workers by replacing them with technology that can do most of their jobs.

Better yet, since the corpofascists have the ear of Congress maybe they can petition the District of Criminals to create a whole new set of worker visas so they can import more cheap labor from 3rd world hell holes that won't complain about being paid minimum wage.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:54 | 4259933 PT
PT's picture

Even with pitifully low minimum wages, that technology is already here anyway.

I'm sure the lazy horses really regret being so slack now that they have been replaced by the car.  Perhaps we could ban trucks and pay people two cents per week to carry stuff on their backs.  Jobs for all!!!  "And if you don't want to do it then you're just too lazy!"

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:21 | 4259455 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture



Are an idiot

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:39 | 4259486 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

No, he makes a damn good point.  Is your thinking and ethical standard so corrupted by your ideology that you don't think that sacrificing a stock buyback for the good of the lowest paid workers in the country is a good thing?  This is not the 1950's.  These are not 15 year old kids working at the local gas station for summer cash.  It's grandma and grandpa, greeting people at Wal-Mart, trying to supplement their SS after their 401K got robbed by Blankfein and Co.  It's the guy working in the gun section that used to have his own store before they came to town.  It's your friends and neighbors, and it's a big chunk of the population.  Grow up.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:40 | 4259836 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You don't get it do you? You are advocating tyranny. You are telling everyone that the stock holder's have to do something, and that the markets can not operate.


You are just as bad as the assholes in Wall Street


Thu, 12/19/2013 - 04:38 | 4260025 Golden_Rule
Golden_Rule's picture

Yes sirrr.  "Force" was the initial word he used.  You know what doesn't take force?  Opening your own damn store to compete with wally-world where the employees make better money.  100% I agree walmart employees are getting shit on, but force is never the answer.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 10:06 | 4260364 Reference Variable
Reference Variable's picture

You are being mindfucked. By choosing not to tariff, rather manage the economy solely through currency devaluation American manufacturing has been destroyed. A solid manufacturing base was and is the only solution for an acceptable standard of living for most people. You're right, this isn't the 1950s!  Direct your emotions at the real rapists, the banksters and their political enablers. These fuckers.

By advocating Walmart can possibly solve this you only carry their water my man. It's going to take blood.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 11:57 | 4260769 PTR
PTR's picture

BK- I'm jumping in to tell you that you are my hero for the day.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:45 | 4259506 starfcker
starfcker's picture

how about we skip the whole minimum wage debate and use sherman anti-trust to bust that company to pieces. tariff every single thing they bring in from china, and force them to pay dollar for dollar every dime their employees grift from the taxpayer. so the trayvons of the world might have to get a job to afford a 50 inch TV. cry me a river. but then we would have jobs for them again, wouldn't we?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:40 | 4259912 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

No trinkets?  The FSA will hang you faster than you can say..Banker.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:03 | 4259943 starfcker
starfcker's picture

gotta give you the green. that's funny

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:37 | 4259489 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

So your idea is to take the retained profits and spend them on increased labor expenses? And when profits aren't as robust, everyone will happily take a paycut.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:54 | 4259530 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

There are alternatives, Schiff!

Yeah. We anarcho-capitalists call it competition. Competition works for employment, when it is allowed. It is not really competition when Wally is given permission by dawt gov, to keep sales taxes. Only under such anti-competitive practices, can Wally engage in such stock buybacks.

If employees don't like working at Wally, they should seek employment elsewhere. If they are unable to attain employment elsewhere, a skill assessment is in order. FFS...these are NOT meant to be careers. Anybody attempting to live on Wally wages needs to have theirs heads examined.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:41 | 4259759 cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

When the 7 Walton family heirs are worth more than the combined assets of 41% of the people in the US, something is VERY wrong.  When Walmart DELIBERATELY limits the hours of its employees to avoid paying them any form of benefits, when the employees of that company cannot afford to live on the salary that they are paid and are collecting government aid in the form of food stamps (using Emergency Rooms for medical care) somethign is VERY wrong.

Minimum wage has gone DOWN substantially in terms of buying power over the past 40 years - thanks in large part to the inflationary policies of the Fed. 

In this case Schiff has it all WRONG because raising salaries would not force costs higher - the differnece could be made up by lowering (slightly) the profits going to the already wealthy Walton famliy.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:51 | 4259781 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

So, then why not raise the minimum wage to $1000/hr?  You know the answer, and it does not validate the concept of "minimum-wage" AT ALL!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:56 | 4259855 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture


So what you are telling me is that you think they should be forced to give up their life because some others are not happy with their life.


Life sucks, get used to it.


If you don't like seeing many poor people learn what Mr. Schiff is actually talking about, because the core of it is currency devaluation through printing which makes the dollar of the spender worth even less than the dollar of the supplier. This creates the situation that we are seeing now.


Learn some economics if you want to fix the porblem.




Thu, 12/19/2013 - 06:06 | 4260071 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture



You cannot "Fix the PROBLEM" as it is no longer a Problem but it is a PREDICAMENT.


PREDICAMENTS have outcomes whereas Problems may, or many times not, have a possibility of a solution.


They will not learn Economics. Most cannot compute simple percentages. They are myopic and innumerate.




Do not bother trying to fix it. Just expose the TRUTH.


Then you can laugh your ass off at them, at how stupid they are, when the whole game crumbles. They are RIDICULOUS, WORTHY OF RIDICULE.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 00:47 | 4259771 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Guess the words "Fiduciary Responsibility" aren't in yer dictionary...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:06 | 4259800 keesooi
keesooi's picture

And yet, nobody is putting a gun to Walmart's employees' heads to work for them.  They are free to leave whenever they want.  The truth of the matter is that, absent of Walmart, no one will offer these folks a job at that rate.  Supply and demand's a bitch.  Tip to Walmart employees:  Look around, and acquire a skill that is actually in demand. 

I'd venture that not many Walmart shelf stockers consider what they do a career.  My bet is they either:

- already have a breadwinner in their home and just do this for the "extra money"

- go to night school to acquire afore mentioned skills

Hiking the minimum wage is like taking water from one end of the pool and adding it back on the other end.  

At best, nothing will change (All wages go up, and prices move up accordingly as well).  At worst, millions of folks become instantly unemployable, due to the fact that they are unable to produce.  The US auto industry is the empirical example of what happens when employers are forced to pay their employees above market level wages:  They automate them away and/or simply pack up and move to a cheaper location.


Thu, 12/19/2013 - 04:17 | 4260002 Wyatt Junker
Wyatt Junker's picture

Fuck you.  If Wal Mart forgoes its buybacks, its EPS goes down.  If WMT's EPS goes down, its stock price goes down... considerably from here.  If its stock price goes down, guess just what in actual fuck happens next asshole?  

That's right, it can't grow.  If WMT can't grow, it can't hire.  If it doesn't hire, people get even more FUCKED.  Do you see how this works?  

There are no other alternatives.  WMT is what it is.  A low cost retailer.  The consumer wins.  The poor win.  So do the elderly who want a part time job at WMT as an adjunct to SS or fixed income.  

You want to fuck them next too?

Besides, Wal Mart already pays its people more.  Its called Sam's Club.  Go work there.  But leave the lower deck of the Titanic alone for the sinking middle class who still need cheap shit cheap.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:04 | 4259267 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

i derserve a ham samich, cause im not payin 30 bucks for no hog when i can just go shoot one. Or two..

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:36 | 4259488 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You have to eat that sammich to find out what's in it.

I like this game!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:17 | 4259168 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

doc, a lot of the regs are put in place by big corps that dont want any competition, otherwise I agree with you

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:25 | 4259186 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I agree a lot of regs are written by the majors, but not all of them. There is a lot of NIMBY in this country. People are their own worst enemy.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:23 | 4259181 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Everything else is fixed (see taper reaction in the 'markets').

I certainly get Peter's point, but what we have is protection for mega-corps and capitalism for everyone else.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 05:53 | 4260064 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Damn...It seems that EVERYONE MISSES THE OBVIOUS. If Minimum Wage is raised THEN WHO BENEFITS?


The Government benefits. They are NOT DOING THIS..."to help the poor." They are DOING THIS in a vain attempt to INCREASE TAX REVENUE.


Wait a second, some will retort. How is that? Those Minimum Wage Workers get a "Tax Refund".


That is only PARTIALLY TRUE. They do NOT get a REFUND on the FICA, do they? As FICA is a PERCENTAGE and the SAME PERCENTAGE on a larger Gross Earnings results in increased FICA contributions then Government reaps much more in FICA.


For example if I earn $200 and FICA is 15% (the Employer also pays) then the FICA paid is $30. But If I earn $300 then the FICA contribution increases to $45.


The Government reaps the same 50% gains as the Minimum Wage Employee as FICA IS NOT REFUNDED. Of course the same holds true for Medicare, FUTA and the rest of the NON REFUNDABLE PAYROLL TAXES.


Employers will raise prices accordingly and the COSTS are passed off to EVERYBODY. RAISING MIMIMUM WAGE IS A STEALTH TAX INCREASE.




"I will not raise taxes on ANYBODY earning less than $250,000 per year." ~ the Teleprompter in Chief


What a fucking LIAR.


How is it, with all of the minds here on Zerohedge, does this escape you? How can you allow the Socialist Trolls get away with this?


"You are just so heartless. You don't care about...about the poor. How dare you?"


YES WE DO CARE ABOUT THE POOR. It is that YOUR GOVERNMENT, being the Greedy SLIMEBALLS that they are, DOES NOT. I can hardly wait for it to collapse as they are so FUCKING FRAUDULENT and DISHONEST!!!


Collapse baby collapse.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:01 | 4259549 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

So you live in Camden then?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:13 | 4259883 prains
prains's picture



the regulations of which you speak go hand in hand with the outsourcing, .GOV makes it intentionally difficult for small business to support the CORPROfascist agenda of outsourcing and FORCING the wage arbitrage game on the middle class. Middle class america is smart, when they're getting fucked over... start a business and make a profit, so what does .GOV do????? make it difficult to start a business so the outsourcing is SUPPORTED and aids the corporate agenda of starving out the middle class.


YOU ARE BEING CRUSHED BY DESIGN AND BY PURPOSE......they need hungry, angry, vialble bullet stoppers in the future AND IT'S YOUR KIDS WHO WILL BE THOSE BULLET STOPPERS.


remember these guys operate on a different time line than you, their reptillain hearts can wait to have ALL this slowly unfold in their FAVOR!


watch and learn and are being ever so slowly fucked over on a generational and learn

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 14:26 | 4261265 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

WalMart's workers are often on EBT just to pay basic food expenses and I have heard that such dependence is part of WalMart's business plan.  So, if true, WalMart is making profits off public largesse.  We do know that WalMart (and many others) does everything it can to avoid paying benefits to its workers (most of whom are part time by design).  But WalMart and others like them don't mind using infrastructure, police, fire protection and other public benefits.  Unlike others in Shiff's video, I won't shop at WalMart and will pay higher prices to support local business.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 19:55 | 4259108 logicalman
logicalman's picture

I think a better approach would be to require production of something useful.

Printing Fiat doesn't count.


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:03 | 4259121 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Behind closed doors it's keep your powder dry cause the show must go on.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:42 | 4259232 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

How about printing Fords then? "anything you monetize you get more of" this instance "Fed created car debt creates 16 million cars." well, what does the Fed know about the car business? "that the thing loses half its value once you drive it off the lot"? a deflation is unheard of in post World War II fact that's why we had "all that Government shit" (like the draft, the thirty year mortgage, the GI bill, etc)...the purpose was to finally put an end to the multitude of price collapses that had plagued the USA since the 1770's and "Continentals." I will agree with Peter Schiff on one thing: back your money with gold and you will put a bid in for "real money" (i.e. money backed by something everyone agrees is of enormous value.) the irony of course is that as gold gets cheaper even fewer call for a return to the gold standard. meh. Why did JP Morgan go running back to solve the Knickerbocker Crisis? "there was gold money on that table." (and yes he was laughing off all the talk of a crisis at the time.) Teddy Roosevelt was probably laughing the whole time because it wasn't like the Government didn't have a plan. believe me "it didn't involve bailing out JP Morgan." that was the last time the banks had to truly take ownership of "their economy." I mean one wanted to ask the outgoing Fed Chairman with the price of gold getting monkey hammered what his thoughts on backing money with gold were? give me a break. if the equity market goes down 40% between now and January you think that's his problem?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:01 | 4259114 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Well sure, if you want to start at the bottom end he has a point.

The real problem is the FED, the banking cartel, the corporatocracy that has off-shored production and imported cheap illegal/visa labor.

End the FED.

Restore Glass-Steagall.

Put tarrifs on imports and give tax breaks to companies that source and produce products in the U.S.A.

End farm subsidies, stop paying farmers not to plant, end Monsanto hegemony of seed crops, and quit allowing illegals to be used as slaves on farms.

There is a list longer than Santa's of common sense things to do that would restore sound money, production, and thus employment and wages - but it won't happen in a month of Sundays because the U.S.S.A. is on the path of parasitizing it's population - rather than allowing them to prosper.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:03 | 4259131 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Require a years worth of feed for animals in case of a bad year, it keeps prices down in the long run.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:01 | 4259560 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

I would like to see your plan for that where I live with a mega feedlot or hog finisher on every mile corner.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:06 | 4259134 XitSam
XitSam's picture

You would end farm subsidies, yet somehow tax breaks to certain manufacturers is ok?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:08 | 4259143 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

A subsidy and a tax are two different things.

Sure, if Apple makes iPhones here make the rate 15% instead of 39% - and end offshoring of profits in non-existent branches in Ireland.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:39 | 4259359 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture'd like to see governments get more powerful - regulating more, telling people they MUST hire high-cost US workers and you want higher border taxes (tariffs) too?

Sounds like socialism.  We already have quite a lot of that...

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:00 | 4259547 starfcker
starfcker's picture

If they want to pay 10 cents an hour to make stuff in china, great. let them sell it there. if they want to sell it here, they need to contribute to here. that ain't socialism, pinhead.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:09 | 4259583 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Bingo! What is the logic behind expectations that more government "solutions" will fix the previous government..."solutions?"

Problem. Reaction Solution.


Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:51 | 4259932 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

No kidding. Doesn't he realize that we're going to go from slobbering tyranny to rainbows and unicorns almost overnight, and without any power being exerted? It's all going to happen because people will turn away from their grasping ways and those with power and money will stop trying to screw people over for a dollar, and it will all happen just because Americans suffer economic dislocation. That won't make the threat from the looters and leeches worse than ever - no regulation will be needed!  And there will be no tarriffs! Who would want to pay a tarriff when they can be a slave to the Fed and IRS instead? It's not like we built a giant infrascturcture and a giant army of consumers at great cost - all producers anywhere that pay slave wages must have zero-cost access to our markets because free trade has greater sanctity than most religions. Just ask a genuine libertarian: We're better off because we've allowed China to deny us access to their markets while we gave them unfettered access to ours. Most of what we got for our money was plastic, and we have lots of full landfills and empty factories to show how brilliant it was to roll over and spread.

Glass Steagall? Why bother with boring crap like that? We're gonna get libertarianism without any fuss or hassle! It's gonna be great. Just sit back and watch it unfold.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 05:22 | 4260056 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Yes please.

I want being a citizen to mean something.

That is the purpose of the U.S. Government, to value the legal individual citizen and their rights.

What we have is nothing but that.  What we have is a .gov that colludes with the corporatocracy to make us all wage/debt serfs to their machine.  That is the problem.  Not socialism; we don't have socialism, we have a neo-fascist socialist kleptoligarchy.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 17:16 | 4261768 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I know taxes and subsidies are different things.  But you would extend a system where some manufacturers are selected to be favored by government. To paraphrase Nanny Moose, you want government to fix the problems government created.  I don't want the government selecting any favorites. 

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:42 | 4259254 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

While I support a number of your proposals, I was taught, long ago back in undergraduate freshman macroeconomics 101, that tariffs on imports and subsidies for certain favored producers -- but not others -- generally have more negative than positive results.

Maybe I'm just too old-school, but I favor more market-oriented policies [pretty much the opposite of what we have now].

I believe if the Fair Tax were passed into law -- making the US just about the most business-friendly place on the planet while simultaneously eliminating the ability of politicians to create tax breaks for their crony and corporatist sponsors -- the number and quality of jobs available in the US would explode to the upside as just about every decently sized business on the planet reconsiders how to open up shop in the US.

The whole reason why the economy is so challenged right now -- in my opinion -- is due to how many new costs of litigation, taxation, and regulation have been added to US businesses in the last 7 years (if not longer), while the Fed has papered over these new fiscal policy costs with easy money.

Many people I know don't seem to understand that a new cost of doing business which is evenly distributed across all of the competitors of an industry (such as with a tax) is almost immediately passed on to the business's employees, customers, and clients.

Business owners are just about the last ones to ever pay these kinds of added costs, because a good business manager will reform the business as necessary to maintain the risk-to-reward ratio where the manager is comfortable.  When new costs are added, that adds to the risks but not the rewards so the manager has to cut other costs, somewhere, or raise prices.

The rest of us all usually end up paying these new costs, in the long run -- even when they are from a higher minimum wage.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:25 | 4259467 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

The legend that tariffs hurt American business goes back to the Hawley Smoot Tariff in the 1930’s.  At that point in time the U.S. exported far more than it imported.  Nations retaliated by raising tariffs on American goods hurting American business.   Today our position is reversed.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 23:36 | 4259500 notquantumdum
notquantumdum's picture

So, if I understand you correctly, now that the US imports far more -- and we would therefore have to pay substantially higher import costs of materials, from the import tariff -- that wouldn't hurt us.

'Sorry, but I suspect you are just shifting costs from exports to imports.  No matter how you cut it, the pie ends up a little smaller before it's divided, in my opinion.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:35 | 4259352 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Wait a minute...nothing wrong with "offshoring production"!

Do you propose to order people to buy only US-made goods and to pay higher prices?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:36 | 4259909 starfcker
starfcker's picture

how about this pinhead. we tarriff the made in china clutter and lower my taxes an equivelent amount. if companies want to manufacture there, fine. but if they want to sell here, they have to play by rules benificial to americans. now made in america can compete. who fucking cares if things cost a little more. i don't mind feeding the poor, but if they want an iphone and a bmw, that's not my problem.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 19:58 | 4259115 pocatello
pocatello's picture

/sarcasm on


Why not raise everyone's wages to $52 per hour?


No?  Why not?  We would all be richer, right?


Oh?  People would be laid off?  Businesses would lose customers?  Businesses would no longer be profitable?


We could legislate this, right?


Use the power of the state to force this to happen?



Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:12 | 4259135 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


And why doesn't the FED send me $3 Million tax free?

I mean do they want to stimulate the economy or are they just throwing money at banks and Wall Street?

Oh right, I wouldn't scrub the toilets and make the lobster bisque for Lloyd, Jamie, and Company.

It's only unethical and immoral if you do it for 99% instead of the 1%.

And if you fool 45% that they can "get ahead" working hard and paying their taxes and insurance premiums and voting Republican - and the other 45% that they can get a free ride voting Democrat; well then - you have a permanently polarized and paralyzed population obediently going along with graft, corruption, and collusion in government and sending their kids off to die in pointless wars for the military industrial complex while waving the flag and tearing up when they hear "God Bless America".

Seems to be working for Beelzebub's minions so far, doesn't it?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:23 | 4259184 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

You sir, win the thread :-)

As if in creasing purchasing power when there is an OVER CAPACITY OF EVERYTHING is doing the devils work.  I'm an anarchist at heart, but if you have to have government meddling in everything ensuring the proles can consume and keep the economy from stalling ain't such a bad idea.  Damn libertarians need to start taking the world as it is and not how they'd like it to be.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:51 | 4259247 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

what i find interesting is in thinking the Government would agree with you "nihilistzero." In other words "running your economy on an even BETTER speculation than the last one" is really a challenge when it comes to making policy. "you mean instead of having 100 billion i'm now in the hole for 100 billion? how did that happen?" hmmm. "well, you see. it goes like this. 2000 years ago there was this guy named Jesus...and he...

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:01 | 4259119 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

''The fact that the economy is now providing no other stones on which to step is not the fault of Wal-Mart.'' wrote the fucking book on globalization 


''the better paying jobs that used to form the backbone of the middle class have been strangled by an out of control government that strangles businesses with excessive taxation and regulation''

neo-liberalism baby........its the how multi-nationals corps roll... 


has schiff ever heard of Triffins Dilemma?

excessive taxation??........wake me up when GE pays taxes

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:05 | 4259136 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Frankly they are about to in a couple years.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:25 | 4259182 funthea
funthea's picture

"excessive taxation??........wake me up when GE pays taxes"

He was referring to the backbone of the middle class, i.e. the businesses that support that backbone are your average businesses, you know, mom and pops, not GE and their ilk.

GE is in the Club. Most businesses aren't.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 01:00 | 4259791 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Speaking of GE, incandescent light bulbs will no longer be sold in the USA after January 1st, so get out there and buy a lifetime supply!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:03 | 4259126 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Peter Schiff visits a local Wal-Mart in the hopes of explaining that magic money trees are not real."


Schiff needs to go to Goldman Sachs.  Magic money trees are kept in a forest there.  Time for the rest of us to be entitled to a Goldman magic money tree.



Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:02 | 4259129 Jameson18
Jameson18's picture

I love how you throw a word out like Corprofacist. But you don't have the balls to say the name of the people who run the banks and rig the markets. You are a gut less socialist.


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:04 | 4259132 Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

The best part - the elderly man who sounds like the Godfather lecturing Peter at the 5:38 mark: "Goddammit. I'm trying to tell you..."

Yeah Schiff... you're doin' it wrong lol. I am surprised that he has stuped to the Mark Dice approach to attempt show how apathetic the public is.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:01 | 4259266 Pareto
Pareto's picture

+1 yeah.  thats was the best.  the emphatic tone of discontent from the Godfather with schiff's approach - as if saying "higher wages" was somehow going to be more acceptable or palatable - intellectually.  my impression of the people was that they are not unlike anybody else.  just trying to eek out a living, buy some groceries and what not........its hard to get people to think about the welfare triangle when they are focused on just getting all their shit to the car.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:11 | 4259431 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The thing to do is go back and watch the video and look at the people he talks to and ask yourself how many of them are making $15+ an hour.

The real calculation going on is in the back of the customers heads, the reptilian part of the brain, and its saying, crikey I don't even make $15 an hour. Why would I want someone that only stocks shelves and running a cash register making more than me.

According to the US Census, the median annual income is $21,587 while says it ranges between $25K to $30K. These people are making less than $15 an hour and they aren't going to want to see shelf stockers and cashiers making more an hour than they are, especially those at Walmart.

And, if you don't believe that people are in to status, then why are all these people walking around with high priced iPhones and expensive phone planes acting like they own the world?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 13:43 | 4261107 Pareto
Pareto's picture

Um no.  What I like about all these people, is they have precisley the "right" response, or the response we would and should expect them to have.  whether they have iphones, and gadgets and shit is irrelevant.  And what do I care what people are or are not into.  Last I checked it was a free country and none of these peple acted like they owned the world.  So, I'm going to junk you for making such a retarded assertion.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:08 | 4259137 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

Not paying people a livable wage means they will use government welfare to stay alive. You are going to pay these people one way or another. Either you pay them a livable wage or they will get food stamps, medicaid, housing assistance. You will pay one way or another.

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:57 | 4259259 SunRise
SunRise's picture

Nothing in there about the Government making up for it.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:42 | 4259370 rum_runner
rum_runner's picture

ZH is a godless place.  No "Lord Almighty" here.  The echo chamber shall bounce your cries to heaven and dash them as ice cubes into the drinks of the heathens that write posts here by flicking their forked tongues at the screen.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 06:46 | 4260092 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

"Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you." ~ James 5:1-3 (NIV)


Generally when I quote Scripture I will source it. I am not so arrogant to repeat the words that I did not write and claim them as my own. That is DISHONEST and PLAGARISM. I am certain that the Lord Jesus does not appreciate DISHONESTY in ANY FORM, whether it is withholding just wages or claiming authorship. YOU NEED TO REPENT.


Real Gold does not Corrode. Gold which has been debased, dishonest Gold, does corrode. Real Silver does not Corrode. Silver which has be fraudulently debased is subject to corrosion.


This scripture is addressing DISHONESTY by some of the Wealthy.


As for the fairness of wages I will refer you to the Parable of the Vineyard. If one makes an agreement to labor for a wage and wants more at the end it is on that one who made the agreement in the first place. Jesus is quite clear that those hired in the Eleventh Hour were du their wage as much as those hired in the third hour.


I do not mind spreading the Truth. You will find that most on Zerohedge are not Central Bankers and uberwealthy. People here write using sarcasm, satire and wit.


I will not allow theives to steal from me. The Bible declares that those whom will refuse to work should not be eating. (Note that what I wrote is not a direct quote. You can find that in Timothy.)  


So, no, it will not end up costing me anything as I am living off of my savings at this point. I am extremely prudent with that which has been entrusted to me as it all belongs to the Father.


Jesus was a Capitalist and not a Socialist. Those who took their Master's Talents, a measurement of a unit of MONEY, invested it and reaped Returns were REWARDED upon the Master's return. They one that refused and hid it away was rebuked and punished. That is from Jesus' "Parable of the Talents".


It is the Love (phileo...more properly...fondness) of Money which is the root of evil and not Money. Furthermore when Jesus speaks of the Rich Man entering into the Kingdom of Heaven He ends that discussion by telling His disciples that all things are possible by the hand of God.


Will you care to talk about Jesus more? It is the most important topic and I am always pleased to write about Jesus in the Comments Section of Zerohedge. There are many other believers that comment here....MANY.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 09:55 | 4260319 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

I sometimes don't quote it because people dismiss it as biblical. Jesus was neither a captialist or a socalist. He is the Son of God. I suggest you listen to him.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:09 | 4259139 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

walmart is the biggest cause of welfare in this nation

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:52 | 4259399 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"they put more small businesses and American manufacturers out of business than all the Governments combined." i think i would call this article sarcasm...but not the funny kind. more like "the joke is on us." we'll see of course...we always do. in 2007 we were told "everything is fine." now the Fed is tapering "and that's good news." well...what if the crisis hasn't ended? "then what?" and i'm on the record as not just saying buy...but in fact being bullish. it took a lot of intellectual heavy lifting though...creating the idea of an investing thesis...looking very closely at what capital was in fact doing..understanding for example the domestic energy situation was in fact the exact opposite as the bulk of crisis managers pre-supposed...and understanding the timing of QE as signifcant but figuring out its "meaning" later. I think the bulk if not totality of the financial establishment has the exact wrong view of not only what taper is...but what the withdrawal of QE "stimulus" means actually. expectation was for an EXPANSION of the program...not "the minor loss of ten billion."

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:08 | 4259142 moneybots
moneybots's picture

"Not surprisingly few shoppers supported his cause. Even those who felt Walmart workers should be paid more did not want to pay higher prices themselves to make it possible"


Not surprisingly, those shoppers want to buy things at low prices while getting raises, themselves.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:13 | 4259148 ultimate warrior
ultimate warrior's picture

These people want higher wages for the workers but someone else should pay for it of course. The level of arrogance and entitlement in this country is sickening.

Thanks Mr. Schiff for showing the hypocrisy of these socialists scum.

P.S. For the few people on here saying Schiff was wrong on the Taper call, I listen to his show all the time and he said all though he did not believe the FED would taper, they very well could but it would only lead to an increase of QE in the very near future. He believes now that the FED is going to taper things will blow up that much quicker. Also remember the FED says they will taper next month and this is all talk as of now. Also $75 billion a month is not chump change so this whole taper deal doesn't mean munch in my opinion.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:13 | 4259151 GetZeeSilver
GetZeeSilver's picture

Schiffy is partially right.  Walmart is in a DANGEROUS entity.  My business partner in India has told me stories where Walmarts open up, and put mom-pop stores out of business.  These mom-pop stores provide HIGHER wages than those of Walmart and overall better working enviorment.

There are around 10 corporations that need to be abolished...Monsanto, DOW, Walmart, JP Morgan, Goldman, Citi, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, (All the TBTF banks).  You know the other ones...

Hedge Accordingly...#taper is a rouse.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:38 | 4259209 Yenbot
Yenbot's picture

Let's see... W moves into my small town and PRESTO: mom & pop hamburgers, sporting goods, small appliance store, furniture store, gun shop, pet shop, corner grocery, dugstore, optometrist, toy store, office supply, clothing shops, video store, hardware store, paint store, car parts store, nursery, bicycle shop... all bankrupt. Store owners & employees out of work. Stampede to W for subsistance jobs and utility grade beef: priceless. Anyone who works there who doesn't organize and join a union needs to leave town and become a Fed banker.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:04 | 4259864 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

Allow me to give you the flipside - from personal, first hand experience. 

Imagine a small town in the Mississippi Delta. It's run by a few white families. There's a doctor, a dentist, a lawyer, a grocer and a banker. They run the town. Always have, always will. 

They set their rates as they see fit because there is no competition. The grocer can sell substandard, spolied food for twice the going rate. If you don't like it - you can drive 30 miles to the next town where the pattern is repeated. The problem is, the poor people can't afford to drive 30 miles each way to shop. They are stuck. 

Now imagine that WalMart wants to open a store. Imagine that the local power brokers tell the mayor and council members to deny them a business permit because WalMart will put them out of business. WalMart will end their reign of privelege and abuse. 

The town does as it's told and refuses WalMart a business license. WalMart then buys a plot of land 300 feet outside the city limits, opens a store, hires a few hundred unemployed people and sells non rotting food cheaper than the local good ol' boy grocery does.

The entire balance of power changes because of competition. WalMart is not evil. WalMart is simply amoral. 


Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:57 | 4259983 Riprake
Riprake's picture

Yep. That's how things are in my town. It's not quite as small as in your hypothetical example, but the quality of the goods and services at a lot of the mom & pop shops in the middle of the town is rather low. They aren't open much of the day, they rarely have much selection of whatever it is they're selling, and the prices aren't very reasonable. Most of their business comes from tourism, since tourists aren't incredibly picky about shopping around and getting the best price for things when buying souvenirs.

Meanwhile, the Wal-Mart in the commercial district up the road on the other side of the railroad tracks from these small businesses is open from the break of dawn to midnight, offers a huge selection of all kinds of things, and carries a lot of competing brands of its various products, which keeps the prices down. You can still end up paying too much for something there, sure. Some of the stuff they're selling there is worthless crap, sure. Still, you're far more likely to end up paying too much for the very same worthless crap in those shops in the town than you are at Wal-Mart.

Yet people around here are always complaining about how nobody buys from local businesses anymore. For some reason, national chains and big box stores like Wal-Mart are prospering while those little shops in town are struggling to survive. Go figure.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:13 | 4259152 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

Tell us how there will be no taper and it's all a myth, Schiffy! Tell us about the hyperinflation!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:21 | 4259311 ljag
ljag's picture

You forgot the /sarc......right?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:17 | 4259158 Prairie Dog
Prairie Dog's picture

Zerohedgies: in this season of goodwill to all men, try to remember that freedom and pathological selfishness are not the same thing. Merry Christmas

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:16 | 4259162 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

The Waltons look upon their employees as trained cockroaches, there's no chance of decent wages entering the picture under that scenario....

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:19 | 4259171 moneybots
moneybots's picture

" But he argues that such jobs were never intended to be careers, but simply stepping stones for low skilled workers to gain entry into the labor force."


How does a job as a Walmart Associate lead to a job at Goldman Sachs?  Did Cramer start at Walmart?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:16 | 4259297 Animal Cracker
Animal Cracker's picture

I once worked at Sam's Club (the Costco of Walmart).  I started at $7/hr and was making $12/h within two years.  My GM was making six figures and started as a cart pusher sever years prior.  Assistant managers were making between $45k and $60k and all started as $7/hr "associates".  The company really does provide a career path for those who are good workers wihtout an elite education.

Junk away.

Edit:  There is a reason most of the protestors are not actually Walmart employees.  We had a vote to establish a union at my store (Fullerton, Ca.) and it failed miserably.  The company treated us good and provided opportunity.  But yeah...on day 1 we weren't paid enough to raise a family.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:08 | 4259873 TheMeatTrapper
TheMeatTrapper's picture

You are telling the truth. My idiot brother in law is a WalMart GM. He makes six figures. He started out working at WalMart in high school. It's the only job he's ever had. He worked his way up from the lowest position in the store to having his own store. 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 09:32 | 4260269 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Damn are not supposed to tell the truth. What gives?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:19 | 4259174 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Schiff is WRONG. You don't need a 15% increase in prices to pay $15/hr. A 15% increase woudl allow you to pay at least $30/hr.

Australia has a $16/hr minimum and Canada about $10.50/hr + 4% vacation pay + health care included.


The US is again - NUTS.


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:40 | 4259216 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Another libertarian who doesn't want to acknowlege the world for what it is.  I don't support many gubment coercive measures, but imposing a minimum wage that in reality only affects larger businesses (smallies pay under the table), when those larger businesses benefit almost exclusively from governments ability to protect monopolies and markets, is pretty fair.  If they don't like it let's go anarchy tomorrow and see if the Walton heirs can find a way to protect their wealth and assets without .gov having their back.  Me thinks it would take a lot more than they pay now to stave off a prole revolt that would destroy them.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:54 | 4259255 The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

smallies pay under the table....WTF are you talking about retard!?

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:08 | 4259280 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

I'm talking about the reality that many small businesses pay help off the books.  Witness the uproar over the "plus $600 and you must 1099" provision of Obamacare.  Hell the Gubment could exempt and subsidize small business from the raise in the minimum through a negative income tax rebate.  It would just be a matter of expanding the EIC.  If fucktards want to call this type of gubment "socialisim" while accepting corporate welfare, patent and copyright law as well as the cesspool that is the .gov intervention in the RE market (which ROYALLY fucks the proles) they can gladly make an argument.  But they'll still be fucktards.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:48 | 4259242 The_Prisoner
The_Prisoner's picture

Nice try, but...

Industry in Australia can no longer compete. The small industry, especially that not attached to mining, has been gone for years> Large industry (cars, food, etc) survived on government subsidies, but is also shutting down...

But don't worry, as long as everyone gets a job in the public sector, things will be just peachy down under.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:54 | 4259249 PhilofOz
PhilofOz's picture

My wife works as a cleaner in Adelaide CBD and gets $27 an hour during the week, $37 an hour on a Saturday, and $47 an hour on a Sunday. So for four hours work on any Sunday she can get with it 188 loaves of bread or 188 litres of milk at any major Supermarket. They've just pegged the rate and so no pay rises this year. 

No doubt most here think it's excessive but giving the workers a decent living wage for a shorter working week reduces the FSA massively. Now they need to dump forever the $5000 baby bonus that had all the dope-head teenage girls and their like spitting out a baby every year and partying on the government gift!

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:11 | 4259419 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

BW, Canada's $10.50/hr is just like US, it fails to provide a living wage. $10.50hr * 40 hr week = $420.00, less the taxman, approximately 335.00 to $350.00 depending on status, married, single..etc.

Not Sure what average rent for a bachlor pad or very small one bedroom is in Montreal or Vancouver, but in Toronto it is atleast $600 a month for a very questionable place in a lower to upper-lower class hood'. Mix in some transportation costs about $35-$40 week for Public Trans..or $100 week for a very meager ride(paid for, owned) with very little insurance and even less maintenence, and only used to travel to work, as fuel is about $5-$6 a gallon here.

The average 18-34yr old guy or gal or trans-gender (Toronto) could feed themself for about $10-$15 a day. However to eat good for this amount would require great discipline and spending lots of off work hours traveling to find deals on good food.

Let's use $125 a week for rent      $350.00 - $125.00 = $225.00

$225.00 - $40 = $185.00  PTrans        $225.00 - $100.00 Car/fuei/ins. using the absolute cheapest for all three = $100.00

Using the low of $10 day for food =  $185 - $70 = $110 PTrans         $125.00 - $70.00 = $55.00 Car

Rent. food and transportation = approx. 66% of income using PTrans...      and over 80% of income if you have to drive.

I could write a long list of other expenses that the average 18-34 yr old would have. examples...$15 week for laundry and hygiene...$20 week for clothing, and incidental travel to name a couple, another $30-$35 bucks a week off that min wage.

And what about entertainment? $10 a gram for weed, $25 for less than a liter of alcohol (26ozs) $30 for 24 beer (cheapest stuff)

It takes hard work and very strong discipline to survive and progress on min. wage; 98% of our 18-34's have been bubble-wrapped, and could not spell discipline.

It does not matter anyway, because it is 35-65 year olds working at WallyWorld to feed thier family of four on that min wage.

It is supposed to be a transition job, but in most communities WallyWorld infects, its the only job, cause ma&pa closed due to WWinfection.

Big-Box Corps killed 3 decent min. wage or slightly better community jobs for every min wage job they created. They also killed professional jobs as well, used to be 3-4 accountants in our hood to service ma&pa, now there is one.

I am reminded of that say'n, careful what you wish for, wished for low,low prices at Big Box.

Results of getting your wish for low, low prices...Shit products/service, min wage, and dollars taken out of the community forever.

To summerize.....FUCK YOU Federal Reserve and all central banking.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:22 | 4259176 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Someone tell Jack Klugman at the end , to get with the program. 

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:32 | 4259205 Big Johnson
Big Johnson's picture

Like the odd couple link.... Guy wasn't the same after Tony died

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:23 | 4259179 F em all but 6
F em all but 6's picture

Federal minimum wage. Brought to you via judicial activism by a bunch of constitutionally ignorant lawyers.

How could the State justify this under its police powers. Yes, I said States. Seems that since the States have the powers to tax the privilege of engaging in certain businesses or occupations, it somehow magically had the power to tie conditions to those privileges. Wage and price controls. All for the protection of the public and justified under the police powers. You should read the dissenting opinions by brilliant judges that attacked the falllicy of the proposition that this could be justified. Case law lifted up and out of context and placed in a setting in which it had no application. These miserable fucking black robed mutherfuckers found a way to twist reality all under the auspices of a great depression emergency.


But that is only part of the issue. Those so called police powers were then handed to the federal government via the SS Act when the States sought federal permission to join the other States in the (federal ) Act. The States then preempted for purposes of taxation and administrative control.

What we have here is a federal government that is interfereing with the obligation of contracts through State/federal cooperation via the federal Compact Clause. The feds would NEVER have any power to dictate minimum wage without State cooperation. And as the federal contract clause only applies to the States, how then could the States hand the feds the power to do what the States themselves were constitutionally prohibited from doing? What has the USSC had to say about this treasonous shit?? And more importantly, why is it that not ONE of our so called patriotic constitutional lawyers has ever come remotely close to identifying the real issue of law here???

But dont take my word for it. Look at what I bring forward and the apply the following to the subject matter.

D.C.Cal.  1971.  Constitutional prohibition against impairment of contracts is not a restriction upon the federal government.  U.S.C.A. Const.  Art.  1, § 10; Amend.  5.  California Teachers Ass’n   v.  Newport Mesa Unified School Dist., 333  F. Supp.  436.


[1] “Preemption” rests upon supremacy clause of Federal Constitution, and deprives state of jurisdiction over matter embraced by congressional act regardless of whether state law coincides with, is complementary to, or opposes federal congressional expression.  Painters, Local Union No. 567 of Broth. of Painters, Decorators and Paperhangers of America v. Tom Joyce Floors, Inc. 398 P.2d 245, 246, 81 Nev. 1.


The Constitution was careful to provide that ‘no State shall . . . pass any . . . Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts.’ (Const. art. 1, 10.)  This she may not do under the form of a bankruptcy act or otherwise.  Sturges v. Crowninshield, 4 Wheat. 122, 191.  Nor do we think she can accomplish the same end by granting any permission necessary to enable Congress so to do.


A state prohibited by the Federal Constitution from passing any laws impairing the obligation of contracts may not accomplish the same end by granting any permission necessary to enable Congress so to do. Ashton v. Cameron County Water Improv. Dist. 298 U.S. 513, 80 L ed 1309, 56 S Ct 892, rehearing denied in 299 U.S. 619, 81 L ed 457, 57 S Ct 5.


Neither consent nor submission by the states can enlarge the powers of Congress; none can exist except those which are granted.  United States v. Butler, 297 US 1, 56 S Ct 312, 102 ALR 914, decided January 6, 1936.  The sovereignty of the state essential to its proper functioning under the Federal Constitution cannot be surrendered; it cannot be taken away by any form of legislation.  See United States v. Constantine, 296 US 287, 56 S Ct 223.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:25 | 4259183 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

I love self check out lines. It's not as if it takes a genius to run the bar code over a scanner. Most of the time, it takes me less time to do than it would if I would be waiting for one of those WalMorons to do it for me.
Learn a skill or take what ever a benevolent customer is willing to throw your way. You have no leverage when you add nothing to the end product/service.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:26 | 4259188 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

And when half the population becomes unemployed your "benevolent customer" will likely not have anything to throw anybody's way.  Good job buying into the propoganda though :-)

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 02:29 | 4259901 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

So you never thought about your philosophical conclusions with your policy recommendations there would be additional extra populace required to support lousy policies and outdated and obsolete positions?


That sort of hints at the fact that there are a lot of people on this planet that were born for no reason whatsoever and are merely a drain on the resources for the people whom are actually porductive.



Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:27 | 4259960 NihilistZero
NihilistZero's picture

Extra populace is always TPTBs goal.  Gotta keep the proles fighting over scraps...  I'm all for population reduction through incentivized sterilization.  But then where would the"growth" come from.  The banksters need to feed after all...


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:26 | 4259193 GetZeeSilver
GetZeeSilver's picture

WalMorons, classic NC.  Soon ROBOTS will replace the majority of workers and then all HELL breaks loose. The merger of mind and technology (literally).  HANG THE BANKERS


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 21:36 | 4259348 Son of Captain Nemo
Son of Captain Nemo's picture

I'd love to know where you shop with all those "fabulous" bar code scanner self-checkout lines and the fact that something is always going wrong that requires a manager to key in a code for an item that is mistakenly double counted or taken off the "bagging area" -when it isn't.  Don't get me wrong computers and network systems are wonderful technology but anyone who has been around them for a living knows that they never run well without some level of maintenance behind them which doesn't include shortcomings in the design as well as defects in software code or hardware failure which are always omnipresent especially "self-checkout" systems.

What is even better still is when you have only 3 checkout lines working and there are as many as 10 to 12 empty stalls with cash registers and no cashiers behind them because the self-checkout systems are saving them 'sooo much' money!  Every grocery store you walk into you see this and you scratch your head asking for the logic of 7 checkout lines that occupy wasted space and machinery that never gets used, while less than half as many self-checkout lines are available?

Give the kid who has to support his family and his education a job!  It puts money in their pockets and keeps them out of trouble.

Merry Christmas

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 03:06 | 4259945 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Ever notice one person mans four registers? That is in case something occurs like you described. Had you spent time dealing with them like you said, you would be aware of that.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:29 | 4259195 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

it's a race to the bottom - and we all help one another get there everyday

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:29 | 4259198 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Schiff Shills for the Waltons. PLUS we have the article below on inflation. LOL

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:29 | 4259200 Sashko89
Sashko89's picture

Why not tie the minimum wage to the money supply if were gonna follow Kensyian economics atleast? Atleast this way inflation won't only be in food prices... I mean what's the only thing thats been stagnant or decreased with all the money printing going on... its been employee wages... I mean seriously, or why not make the minimum wage selective.. By this I mean only force large corporations like Walmart to have a higher minimum wage tied to the money supply, but not the mom and pop shops... I think thats a good idea, this way the people working for Walmart would make more and maybe QE would decrease as now employee wages would be tied in to the money supply and this would force some corporations to lobby against QE... Just my thoughts guys:) 

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:49 | 4259243 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

my pop got COLA raises in the 1970's..............

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:19 | 4259450 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

My cock got coke raises in the 70's


Because I'm richer than you,


Wed, 12/18/2013 - 22:01 | 4259420 F-Tipp
F-Tipp's picture

If we're following Keynesian econimcs, inflation is an increase in prices (in reality it is in expansion of the money supply) and minimum wage would increase at .5% per year, to keep pace with what they would announce official "inflation" to be.

Wed, 12/18/2013 - 20:33 | 4259204 CryptoCoinUser
CryptoCoinUser's picture

Any attept to receive more value that you create will cause trouble. Walmart is pretty much the employer of the last resort, besides gov't.

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