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Bonds Becoming Unglued As Gold Drops Below $1200, Lowest In 6 Months
Despite yesterday's somewhat lackluster response, treasury bond yields are breaking bad this morning with 5Y up 13bps from the Fed taper (and 10Y at 2.94%). But it is gold (and silver) prices that have been monkey-hammered with the former trading below $1200 briefly - its lowest in 6 months.
Gold is tapering...
and interest rates are displeased...
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Hindenburg bitches.
China must be jumping up and down with ecstasy at the bargain prices the stupid central banksters have manipulated gold down to!
Look for even more tons grabbed in the next report
After today gold won't be trading above $1200 for many years. The FED has won. It's over.
Wait wasn't that what we said for Bitcoin?
/sarc
I will keep buying PMs at a discount.
It doesn't feel like defeat to me.
What exactly did they "win"? A trip to the guillotine? Wake me when gold is back under $300 an ounce.
Looking forward to revisting this call
Sometimes posters just disappear from internet forums leaving no opportunity to hold them to account for the nonsense they spoke. It's not that they are dishonest, things just come up at the exact moment they are proved wrong.
Just sayin.
We haven't even seen one of their famous wee hour dumps yet. Maybe today @ midnight or 1 AM. 2000 contracts dumped when the bid stack is thin down to $1050. BOOM!
They will keep the charade going for years and years. They will triffle with PMs. Anyone who stacked or prepped has wasted their time and money. It is obvious that the winning play, financially if not morally, was to join the bankers and their ilk. This is the sad truth. There will be no financial reset. You were dupped.
"This is the sad truth. There will be no financial reset. You were dupped."
No there will be a reset and gold will go up to something stupid, but there will be a 99% windfall profit tax on "Gold hoarding parasites" which the elites are exempt from. The average American will revel in the fact that FINALLY something is being done to stop speculators from ruining us all.
Seeing their neighbor lose everything will be all anyone wants at that point.
The lower it goes, the sooner demand can't be satisfied.
Please bring it on. I want gold at $35 by tomorrow.
Keep your day job. You suck as a troll.
The truth hurts but its better to face it then live in denial. ZH only shows you what they want you to see.
It is a great time to be alive. That is, only if a person is sensible and logical. You seem as if your ready to take a dive from the bridge down the road. Give advice not criticisms. We all know mistakes are natural. Only a fool exonerates oneself in order to make the rest seem like idiots.
They did the same thing to gold before FDR revalued, they always mock.
Revel in the glee.
LOL, I swear you like The Bernak's lost relatives from South Carolina. Tell Ben he's got a job pumping gas as Pedro at South of the Border.
2500 next year, 3500 the year after.
Easy.
This is no different than the drop from 1000 to 650 and people then said gold was dead forever. for ev-ARRRR
and they were wrong just like you're wrong.
Until bonds pay 20%, savings accounts pay 20% and labor participation is over 80% you can't be right.
period.
Hang in there guys, gold will take a heavy hit next year I suspect. But that doesn't matter - buy up more!!! This entire clusterfuck will end in bankruptcy. Just wait until interest rates rise again.... the already insolvent Western governments will get squeezed and that's when something has got to give...either they cut essential programs and unfunded liabilities or restructure. There is no possible way for this to continue without some implied default at the end of the tunnel. And when that happens, guard ur gold with ur guns...because gubbermint will go full communist at that stage and try to appropriate wealth. In the meantime, the smart ones can try to play the game and make some gains in risky assets depending on appetite.
I don't know anymore. I'm thinking that TPTB have complete control of all the markets and no matter what any investors do, they can just counter with the push of a button even if it takes quadrillions or quintillions of zeros. The markets, any markets will do what they order them to do.
It sure seems that way. Other posters here have argued that it can continue until the supply lines fail. By then gold will certainly be worth something, but who knows what it will ultimately buy even if it is far more than paper scrip.
I keep thinking about Detroit from 1970 until today and guys like Ron Paul explaining the entire time that disaster awaits those who consistently spend more than they earn. Just because you are right about everything, doesn't mean you come out ahead in the end.
The doom bloggers are a lot like the young man trying to tell the woman he is in love with that dating the tattooed drug addict who just out of prison for murder isn't a good plan. Not only does he stand no chance with her, but when she wakes up in the recovery room, she won't remember what he said anyway.
Gold may very well go up many multiples from here once it's priced in Asia, but that doesn't change the fact that for many of us gold is a psychological crutch we use to assure ourselves that in just a little while longer, things are going back to normal and we will regain what we are losing now in terms of lost wealth. The real solution is probably to accept that our culture is doomed to mostly slow decay and to try to find someplace else to be or something else to think about.
pretty sure we'll see 2500 gold next year.
Gold is dead, Bitcoin is dead, Twitter is alive!
Bitcoin up $200 today.
just in time to grab last-minute bag-holders before a $500 drop next week!
Congrats, you win (the bag-holder of the year contest!)
Hey, weren't you the guy who said we'd see $2000 gold before sub-$1200? Still waiting on $150 BTC you keep talking about. Yep, holding a bag that increased 700% if measured at current market rate.
btc to $140 next week, 90% chance. Could even hit $50.
When you are shown to be wrong, you will throttle your bullshit postings back 90%? kthxbye
nope & I won't be wrong. When you keep writing the same bullshit taunt about hitting 140 or 100, saying it won't happen, do you even comprehend the price is lower every single time you do it? Do you realize one day it will be at 150 and you'll be screaming "so, still not 140? You've been saying that for a month, d00d"
Your refusal to back down in how retarded you are is what gives me the strength to keep smacking you down for your idiocy.
sub what? 1200 you say? See that chart: over 1200. That lasted a long time.
Bullion monkey hammered. Just add another 5 trillion to the undercoute3d cftc criminal swaps count. Certain with the cftc it's the dead head fed MOPE. Management of perception being dastardly regulated. Can't let gold and silver rise in paper terms or the swaps blow up before the debt bullbe bonzi blows sky high. Which looks to bew in process. Hold onto the physical bullion you have in hand as the goons can't steal it through margin calls downside they'll be coming to kick down a door near you. GOT AMMO?
Short the miners.
The trade for all seasons and all reasons. Never fails.
Canadian banks and their clients are heavily encumbered with equity swap positions against gold miners that have been building for years. They went very heavily into derivatives once deregulation took hold in 2005.
But shorting TD.TO and RY.TO has been problematic, since the Canadian government insists on tut-tutting real estate investment while the central bank swaps unlimited amounts in government bonds for mortgage paper.
Puts and Calls for the major banks are pricing strongly, so it's difficult to pick something up very cheaply. But the miners are now a cheaply priced option without expiry on the housing bubble demise, and Canadian banking sector vendor financing on their own shares.
http://scharts.co/10DJLw5
Miners still have a lot of room to fall. I have been banking incredible profits shorting them all year. One thing not widely reported is that mine production is actually rising faster since gold started falling. This year US mines will produce over 6% more production and Chinese mines will produce a whopping 16% increase in production in an already glutted market.
I realize it is standard goldbug bravado to cheer lower gold prices, but it strikes me almost like a doomed sailor in the midst of a hurricane at the bow of the ship screaming obcensities at the storm. Gold's current problem is a classic supply demand issue - rising production plus ETF redemptions versus slowing demand. Gold needs this dive desperately to correct the supply imbalance. Mines need to close and prices need to be more attractive.
I will continue to make my money going down, but eventually mines will start to close and production will dry up. Then I will take my profits and finally reverse and go long gold. For now though, this decline will continue until you see mine closures and production actually decreasing. Weary gold bugs may finally see this happen after this drop finishes sometime early next year. I do see gold bottoming by mid-summer, but it will be a scary ride for that guy at the bow of the boat screaming at the hurricane.
The value is in the producing asset.
Makes perfect sense. JPM is net long and accumulating physical, so the play that makes more sense for them is to smash the price down below CoP, driving the miners out of business.
Bought some DUST 3x bearish today. Let's see what happens between now and delivery date.
They are shaking the Gold tree again.....Hang on Gold Bugs....Do whatever you have to , but don't sell your Gold !!!!!!
FRNs are the most precious sherds of paper ever. Repeat after me, "FRNs are the most precious sherds of paper ever." Continue repeating until you believe..
FRNs certainly are not "the most precious shards of paper" but they are a recognized as a MOE the world over...
PS I think you mixed your metaphors...
u obviously haven't followed my instructions since "FRNs certainly are not "the most precious shards of paper"
Thankfully ZIRP accurately measures the inherent value of said paper.
Notice how no one calls gold "precious" anymore. Perhaps Bernanke was correct when he called it a barbarous relic.
the only relic is central banking... Remember what can't last forever, won't. Continue to protect your tomorrows. Your Great Grand Children will thank you.
Will they? or will they remember you as the old fool who lost all his savings chasing a tulip bulb?
Ask King Tut, His gold is still has value..
He's dead....
FWIW, the artwork in his tomb has appreciated far more in real value....
and his people are suffereing, no thanks to his gold.
his people are long gone. Those who are now in Egypt, many came from other lands.
I doubt any of his descendants are left.
I don't call it "precious". I call it a gift. This year my wage has been increased, I will get more gold for christmas than I did last year.
I can't believe western banksters are so generous. But I don't look at a horse gift in the mouth.
PBOC: "Bernanke, we smack down BTC, you smack down Gold."
Bernank/Fed: "Deal."
Questions? Here all week. Try the salad bar. [rolls eyes]
We must remember that what is going on here is a confidence game. As in CON. The fiat schemes and digital schemes rest and depend on that. The PTB keep the masses grubbing for fiat and so re-inforce the scam along with paid for police and military power to do the same. It's working beautifully. Everyone except for the Asians and a few in the west are buying it literally. This will either end in a battle to the death, or at some point, the PTB will embrace gold, re-value it and start the whole scam again.
spot gold shows support at 1175
http://bullandbearmash.com/chart/spot-gold-daily-falls-heading-1175-supp...
could see a bounce here for several months
long the USD is the way to go
Dr. Faber
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/talking-numbers/dr-marc-faber-three-bold-predictions-2014-113455980.html
Another crusty old goldbug like Rogers. Really going to hurt your savings listening to these fraudsters.
This guy has way more money than you do.
So does Jamie Dimon, what's your point?
Dr. Faber is not a crook.
How do you know that? Maybe he has been selling you his gold for the last 2 years.
I don't see any bank with which Dr. Faber is directly associated is being charged with mortgage fraud.
Similarily, JP Morgan Securities sold all of its ellible gold on the COMEX recently, meaning gold meant for delivery. In effect, their clients' gold.
Doesn't mean he is not a crook. People have become too trusting in their gurus over the last decade.
Telling people that you're picking bullion here does not seem like a terrible idea in light of the tottering financial sector. Besides, he has a lot more money than you do, and is looking for the best place to store value and search for depressed sectors the world over.
Warren Buffet just does not buy bullion, but he will buy oil companies are rail, because they are producing assets.
From Bloomberg.....BLOOMBERG!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-19/how-to-keep-banks-from-rigging-...
Someone isn't sticking to the script!
The water up on Bear Creek tastes cherry wine.
- Alvin Pleasant Delaney Carter
Didn't gold have a price of 800 USD way back in 1980 or so?
When the Dow was at or near about 1000?
Makes gold look like an 8000 to 12000 frn value.
Gold is just another fat hog that gets slaughtered from time to time.
When you have one twenty dollar bill 'gold certificate' representing one troy ounce of gold on deposit in the US Treasury, how can you trade gold with the oscillations and magnitudes that fiat can offer when you buy and sell gold? You can't.
Therefore, 60 frns stamped with a '20' on them works for the current means of exchange if you want to buy some gold. You got yourself a market. Maybe not the market you want, but it's the market you get.
If you like your market, you can keep your market.
What more do you want? Eggs in your beer?
Meanwhile GOFO is back negative... Go figure!
FOFOA: "When the battle to keep gold from devaluing oil is lost, the dollar will find 'no problem' with $30,000 gold,....."
My intuition is that we're going to see another wave a slam downs before the 27th.
Someone needs some runway for what's coming next. My guess is it's either CME as a whole or JPM specifically.
Absolutely. They are intent on making a new low before year end. Sub $1100 is a given, maybe sub $1000.
I think the 1970's phrase "grossed-out" is the best description I can find for how I feel about the POG and POS these days.
Where I fucked up was on failing at least a year ago to act on my intuition. Au is a very small sector but MSM constantly reports the POG. Thus it acts as a very important perceptual tool - a thermometer for inflation. I knew the PTB would stomp on it for exactly that reason, but continued to buy the dips. I am down 33% overall.
We are at mining costs and thus I am buying bullion solely, if I buy anything more in this realm. I believe I may well be hosed with my miners as the convexity of econ pressures will very likely crush them into BK or other disadvantageous deals on their product; but I am not selling them.
I am not positioned on margin, have no need for the funds for another 6 years minimum and thus have no reason to do anything but detach.
There is nothing in the trend of the world, particularly the declining West where the noise is the greatest, that suggests that current velocity, hype and marketing have replaced thousands of years of valuation and common sense.
All I'm losing is what I choose to give to it. But it is indeed not pleasant.
It's over, gold is finished.
Yeah FINALLY. I've been waiting 5,000 years to see this!
Gold collapsed from $880 to $250 over 20 years. It could easily collapse to $600 (or less) over the next 18 years. A slow painful death. There will be no financial reset. We were duped.
They will reset. Easy to just type..
Awesome, so you found a magic solution to purge all the bad debt without a default? And not just that, while avoiding monetization entirely and the ZIRP that it implies!
Incredible. Your wisdom could save the dollar! Please get in touch with the Fed, I'm sure they'll want to hear from you.
No one is saying that...
My argument is that it looks like the buying power of gold measured in energy and food topped out in 2011....
It has been commoditized with the price being the cost of marginal production...
With less than 2% of annual supply coming from production, even a tiny dip in demand could wipe out the entire industry.
That is my fear, and it may well come to pass...
I agree that in the short term that is the case. Gold certainly buys you less food and energy today than it did 2 years ago. Ever since I awoke and entered the market, gold has been volitile and anything but a "store of value". However, I understand gold to be a longer term store of value and a timeline of 2 years is not an appropriate measurement of these things.
I'm sure gold buys you roughly the same amount of food and energy as it did in the 70's or the 30's. I'm too lazy to do any charting right now, so I'll accept an ass kicking if I'm too far off base. The point is, there may be flucuations in how much food or energy you can purchase with gold, but over the long term, it will all even out. That's how money is supposed to work.
Yes, roughly the same but you could argue that trend is not in gold favor..
BTW, in the depression an oz of Au bought ~400 barrels (in part due to the discovery of the Permian basin leading to a huge glut)...
Agreed, two years is not a long time, but 50 years is also irrelevant...
ummmmm http://youtu.be/Cdiz0k0Rudw
I have 17 Trillion reasons for thinking that this will not end well.........the rising middle classes of emergent market countries will continue to value and buy gold regardless of CB shenanigans. The long term story is still solid and pm's should go up in 2014 imho. It is increasing difficult/expensive to get pm's out of the ground, this can only result in an increase in its cost. So demand will go up as supply goes down........simple.
If you want to see a way that this is all good for physical gold advocates read Fofoa. Start with December 2012 and see his outlook at that time. Read up to his latest. If you really want to understand why freegold folks are very comfortable with what we are seeing it will take a few weeks of reading.
Last December he asked if 2013 might be the 'year of the window'. By this he meant that this year could be the year that central banks withdrew support (by supplying physical gold to keep the paper market viable.) This would result in a decrease in the price of gold (as the paper derivatives that price gold lost value) and a depletion of gold from the last remaining non-sovereign hoard of any size....the GLD inventory.
So far we have seen the POG drop from about 1800 to less than 1200 (but you know that). We have also seen the GLD inventory fall from 1350 tons to 812 tons. Every single month this year GLD lost inventory. That has not happened since the ETF was started in 2004. We believe these things mean something. We see the end of the gold derivative market rapidly approaching. We think the POG will continue to fall until the paper markets close and settle for cash. We also believe that the world cannot function without a real gold market and that after the collapse of the derivative market a new, physical only, gold market will emerge and gold will then be priced at a level at which it can perform its function as the world's primary banking reserve. This price should be over $50,000 per ounce.
If all the current holders of treasuries got together and decided to split the remaining gold in GLD the price of that gold would be $7 trillion(outstanding treasuries held by sovereigns) divided by 26,126,517.15 ounces (of gold left in GLD) . I'll let you do the math.
WAIT, something which may one day have no price in dollars & is incredibly rare is now on discount prices?
nobody could sustain this, NOOOoooobody!
DUMP IT ALL
The answer is $267,927.02/ ounce....crazy huh?
Do you spend a lot of time daydreaming about unicorns?
http://i.imgur.com/bPiuvZd.png
gold-shmold. Everyone knows the big money is in facebook ads, bitcoin & Treasuries
Yep, gold is fer spendin, not savin.
You're hired! Go to www.FederalReserve.gov and submit your employment application immediately! Hurry before CNBC gets you.
I could make tens of dollars!