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JPM's Quiet Scramble To Refill Its Gold Vault

Tyler Durden's picture





 

As we repoted consistently, at times on a daily basis, one of the more memorable stories of the summer of 2013, was the rampant and furious depletion of gold (both eligible and - mostly - registered) stored deep in the gold vault of JPMorgan located under 1 Chase Manhattan Plaza, since sold to a Chinese conglomerate (understandable considering China's insatiable appetite for the yellow metal in physical, not paper form). This culminated with some truly impressive multi-way vault rearrangements in which the other 4 Comex members would provide gold to JPM on an almost daily basis (see here and here). But while Chinese demand may explain the outflow of physical, what is head-scratching is the just as furious scramble by JPM to obtain gold in the past few weeks.

As persistent trackers of the CME's daily depository statistics update are well aware, over the past week, JPM has been accumulating an impressive amount of gold, and what is more curious, it has been precisely in increments of 64,300 ounces of eligible gold on a daily basis. Putting this scramble in context, two months ago JPM had only 181K ounces of eliglble gold. And yet, just today, the Comex announced that JPM's eliglble vault gold rose by almost that amount, increasing by 125K to a reputable 1.2 million eligible ounces.

JPM's total eligible holdings, and especially the recent surge, are shown below:

It bears pointing out that while eligible gold has been surging higher, JPM's registered gold has once again contracted, and as of today, it closed at its lowest ever: just 87K ounces of gold!

So with gold plunging to multi-year lows, is JPM just taking advantage of the "blood on the streets" and becoming the helpful bidder of last (or first) resort and replenishing its record low depleted inventory by taking advantage of below production cost fire sales, or... is something else going on here?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 


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Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:06 | Link to Comment FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Building up inventory for the next plunge down.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:09 | Link to Comment Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

panic sell to me

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:33 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Does JPMorgue really have the gold?

DoChenRollingBearing has his.*

 

*But, you cannot come see mine either!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:44 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I don't care what JPM does.  BRICS are buying hand over fist, so NOPE is following the BRICS.  And, of course, just out of coincidence JPM is adding to their physical stash at a time when it's "the worst time to buy"... lol.

They are buying (stealing it from the GLD).  You should be too.

Or do y'all honestly believe the big corrupt banks are going to lose?

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:45 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I just can't believe that they would manipulate the gold price lower so that they could buy it cheap. They wouldn't do that. What if they got caught? The penalties would be serious I'm sure.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:00 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Well, based on the government's track record on enforcement, bankers jailed, and restitution made to injured parties, the penalties would be... nonexistent.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:09 | Link to Comment cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

I think you missed Johnny's dripping sarcasm. I know there wasn't a /sarc tag but it was pretty slobbery!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:17 | Link to Comment dryam
dryam's picture

The Fed is buying gold via JPM.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:49 | Link to Comment Stuart
Stuart's picture

64,300???  real physical gold is never that precise not to be without at least 2-3 decimals....I call BS on those...  It would totally fit though that even this reporting is total and utter fraudulent crap...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:52 | Link to Comment Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

Not sure, but I'd guess there's rounding. 64.3K

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 00:36 | Link to Comment SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

.. and we would buy even more of the junk, if only we could source it

-jimmie diman

 

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 06:55 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

Paging Gordon Brown........your contract with you know who.......has just come due.

 

Don't keep him waiting......you know how cranky he gets.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 03:59 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

They round to the thousandth of an ounce.

A transfer of precisely 2 tonnes is not possible.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:44 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

a ton is 32,150 troy ounces so were talking 2 tons exact.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 00:38 | Link to Comment Central Wanker
Central Wanker's picture

No. That means that the bars are one kilo bars whose weight is reported a bit differently.  Those bars are primarily meant for the chinese markets, but for some reason, some of them are now showing up at the JPM vault.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 01:10 | Link to Comment KickIce
KickIce's picture

For some reason tungsten keeps coming to mind.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 02:05 | Link to Comment Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

JPM is the accounting department of the FED and DOJ is the legal department, all the same scumbags, all the same fraud...

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:20 | Link to Comment BringOnTheAsteroid
BringOnTheAsteroid's picture

when you say "governments track record" I assume you mean JP Morgans and Goldmans track record.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:26 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

What if they got caught? The penalties would be serious I'm sure

LOL.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

What if they got caught? The penalties would be serious I'm sure

LOL.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

"They" get caught.... LOL

Untouchable career criminals don't get in trouble, they make the rules for the "regular people".

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:36 | Link to Comment nwowatcher911
nwowatcher911's picture

30+ ups ? 31+ paid trolls..... trolololololololol!!!!!!!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:55 | Link to Comment heron
heron's picture

Indeed.  Blythe said that would be wrong and they don't do it.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 10:03 | Link to Comment drdolittle
drdolittle's picture

At least like five figures

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:48 | Link to Comment kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

correct.......

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:51 | Link to Comment cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

My bullion dealer in NYC (Chinese BTW) is routinely sold out of physical gold by lunch time each day. I stop by most days at lunch. I have been told that JPM private clients are coming in and buying physical at the suggestion of JPM brokers. Now why would the JPM Private Client Group recommend to their best clients to buy physical from a Chinese coin and bullion dealer when JPM can put them in their vaults as eligible or registered? Somethings fishy in Denmark.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:00 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hmm, indeed...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:07 | Link to Comment cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

Last Friday a JPM client bought 55 American Eagles with a bag of cash ($70k). It took them most of the afternoon to count. Today when I went by at lunch not only had all of their stocks in the back been sold but even the display cases fronting on Wall Street were empty. I keep ordering my piddly amounts of silver and the price slamdown continues but I know that one day soon I will walk in to place an order and will be told that there is none to be had.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:39 | Link to Comment Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

The problem I have trying to buy silver eagles on these dips at my local coin store is that the price never really drops, the premiums just go up.  Frustrating!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:57 | Link to Comment cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

Your dealer doesn't have a good source then. I deal through a large Chinese dealer that recently set up shop in the U.S. The refiners all want access to the insatiable demand in the East and so are giving them very good terms here in the U.S. in order to get access to China. I routinely buy good quantities for myself and friends and as a regular customer have been given a preferential premium over Ask.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:44 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Beware! Is there a dumpster out back full of broken incandescents?

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 11:27 | Link to Comment ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Yo cro_maat, buddy, ol' pal, what's the place called?  Might have to make a visit...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:22 | Link to Comment Boston
Boston's picture

Skip the local coin store. Buy online----lots of inventory and far lower premiums.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:55 | Link to Comment DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Boston:
When I drop in my LCS to purchase ASE's, I hand over fiat FRN's that are worth less each day, and they hand me shiny coins that actually retain value and have never been worthless. You know, I normally just walk out of the store, no receipt or anything, just like the transaction never took place ....

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Skip the local coin store. Buy online----lots of inventory and far lower premiums.

There's no risk there, is there?

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 11:02 | Link to Comment Sonic the porcupine
Sonic the porcupine's picture

Do they ship for free?

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 13:05 | Link to Comment Jeepers Creepers
Jeepers Creepers's picture

Fortunately, i finally found a good local dealer, but if it wasn't for him, I'd probably buy more online as well.

I know some areas, it's almost like a cartel where they charge unrealistic premiums or have no inventory.  What I hear some people paying is absurd.

I understand the appeal of an all cash transaction, but at the same time, I think you're better off taking your chances online if it means more stacking.  Most of the reputable places have the same views we do when it comes to privacy.  And if there ever was some sort of stormtrooper "gold roundup" there's always boating accidents.  Or you could just say you sold it all to one of those out of business "Cash for Gold" places.

 

I just wouldn't let myself get shut out by shady, local coin dealers

 

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 23:15 | Link to Comment LapseOfReason
LapseOfReason's picture

End of the year the mint stops production, keeps premiums high. Jan/feb they should go down. A registered dealer gets them for Two dollars over spot. I think they have to buy 25k ounces though.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:28 | Link to Comment juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

It took them most of the afternoon to count 700 dollar bills, or 70 coins?  Why would it take so long?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

They paid the $70k using dimes, obviously.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:53 | Link to Comment El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Dime bags of what might I ask? LOL

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 07:26 | Link to Comment new game
new game's picture

exactly-lol, had to count over and over as dimes and eight balls were gone-but we sure had a good time-hehe; oh the good ole days- blow all nighter pussy and sun rise to a bottoms up fucking i don't give a shit - oh yea - rock on as rock will never die in my head...

thanks neil and mick...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:02 | Link to Comment Tim_
Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:05 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

if thats true then gold has no role to play in the next monetary system .... i doubt it though to be true. 

the last ones to know the truth are the clients, and the JPM account managers right before them by multiseconds...

 

or do you really believe on what they teach in school about clients, their money etc.... and how JPM managers are the best .... that is the books my friend...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:26 | Link to Comment Four chan
Four chan's picture

then a chink the armor may be shown, you cant hft your way into physical,

that takes direct and slow purchases with the worthless stuff.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:52 | Link to Comment cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

I believe that JPM cares not one whit about their clients except where they can fleece them. All I am reporting is what my dealer (who has never lied to me before) has conveyed to me and what I what I have seen with my own eyes (empty showcases because their back vault was emptyed and the customers didn't want to wait until the next delivery and so took all of the display case gold). Maybe these clients have gold stored at JPM, have demanded delivery and JPM has cash settled them so that they have to walk down the street to buy in their physical. I don't know the back story but what broker / FA would tell their client to buy physical gold outside of JPM when they could sell them GLD or a Comex futures contract or a vault contract? Unless...

You can write this off if you like and consider me naive but I have been working in finance for 25 years and have not seen such strange occurances. Since you value gold so little you should sell it to the many stackers on this site. The more I see of this manipulated madness the more physical insurance I want to load up on.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:45 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Every time I look around and wonder if I was a fool to load up on PMs over the last 5 years, I ask myself - what should you buy now instead?

And wind up buying more...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

You got fooled into buying the most marketable good on earth. /sarc

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Four chan
Four chan's picture

amen big jim.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 23:26 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

JPM Private Wealth's real "best clients" do not buy at retail coin shops.  $70K is chump change.  If you've "been working in finance for 25 years", then you know that.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 05:18 | Link to Comment just-my-opinion
just-my-opinion's picture

No....70K is pocket change and they got drunk at a bar down the street and made a bet with another whale

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:33 | Link to Comment JerseyJoe
JerseyJoe's picture

JPM orchestrated the collapse so they could basically defraud the world out of their gold.  

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:29 | Link to Comment juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

???  It's supply and demand.  If paper gold was such a poor reflection of the physical market it certainly has proven accurate thus far, and now you whiners are whining about JPM buying physical.  A commodity bank is selling high then buying low.  Does that sound like fraud to you?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:47 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Look juggalo1, you're ruinin' the fun. We gon buy all der silver and crash jp morgue, den we all gon be billionaires and live in deh mansions and people gon come and worship us!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:52 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Isn't there a spider in your dorm that needs eating?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Odin
Odin's picture

James, you're speaking kind of funny. Try pulling that wall street cock out of your mouth and try again.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:46 | Link to Comment buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

boring

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 10:08 | Link to Comment Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

James Cole gets shot at the end of the movie.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:51 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 If paper gold was such a poor reflection of the physical market it certainly has proven accurate thus far

Er, what? I see your clothes are red... are they made out of herrings?

The price of spot is determined by the fuures markets.

If the futures' markets' price of gold represented the real supply/demand balance for physical, then you'd expect all the futures warehouses and bullion banks' deposits to be roughly static. But - at least until recently - we're seeing gold draining out.

But, perhaps you're as dumb as you look. Carry on.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:54 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

If the futures' markets' price of gold represented the real supply/demand balance for physical, then you'd expect all the futures warehouses and bullion banks' deposits to be roughly static.

*head explodes

Seriously, you guys gotta research this shit better. 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:17 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

And you're going to have to do more than just make condescending but totally unsubstantiated or reasoned-out remarks if you're ever going to be taken seriously around here.

So I guess you're just never going to be taken seriously around here, James.

Now go eat your spider.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:22 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Jeff Cristian of the CME group said it himself Jim, you fucking fool. 100 to 1.

 

100 ounces of paper flating around for every 1 real once.

 

Gold does not get consumed so it cannot be on a commodities market because there can be infinate cash speculation

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 00:04 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Jeff Cristian of the CME group said it himself Jim, you fucking fool.

Be nicer to BigJim - he's awfully sensitive.

Gold does not get consumed so it cannot be on a commodities market because there can be infinate cash speculation

Yep, no holes in this theory. 

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

LOL, Spitzer's comment went right over your head, didn't it?

Quelle fucking suprise.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 23:07 | Link to Comment quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Please tell me you don't actually think that there is no fraud with JPM. Your really that ignorant to think that all they do is buy low and sell high? Jamie, is that you? Even Bloomberg had an op ed the other day about the shit that goes on.

 

ps,  mommy left the milk and cookies on the counter.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 23:57 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I wonder exactly where they are getting this much gold this quickly with no visible effects on price? Is it real gold, paper gold, future delivery gold? Presuming all current gold is spoken for you cannot simplyl come up with a million ounces overnight in new gold. If you buy existing gold I would expect prices to rise unless there is a huge counterforce dumping gold. Who knows the real story?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:34 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Duplicate, sorry

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:40 | Link to Comment Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

dont be sorry, ur comment bears repeating

 

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 09:35 | Link to Comment Lewshine
Lewshine's picture

Isn't it amazing that everything from antique cars, art, jewlery, and high end real estate are currently through the roof in value and demand. The 1% can't buy enough and are bidding these "hard assets"way up....Just NOT the asset that has history on its side - GOLD! go figure...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Charles Nelson ...
Charles Nelson Reilly's picture

yes!!!! fucking brilliant post dude.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:20 | Link to Comment ForWhomTheTollBuilds
ForWhomTheTollBuilds's picture

Well, when you can capture the whole truth in one line, why not go for it?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This was well timed red meat for starving lions.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:24 | Link to Comment synergize
synergize's picture

This guy tracks COMEX gold on a weekly basis and is a must-read for those following the COMEX default...

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1898731-weekly-comex-gold-inventories-jpmorgan-registered-gold-inventories-hit-new-lows

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:05 | Link to Comment Stackers
Stackers's picture

Sell high, manipulate lower, buy with both hands, rinse and repeat

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment OnceandForever
OnceandForever's picture

Not likely...the metal is not useful for anything save for jewelry...since 1980 peak of $800, gold has underperformed long term U.S. T-bonds.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:12 | Link to Comment unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture

Useless, yes, except for every other government in the world, other than our own, values it highly......

and now the the USD is not the only game in town.....

something one might want to have on hand for when the dollar implodes. 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment notadouche
notadouche's picture

Try stealing US gold.  That would determine how highly/lowly the US values it's gold.  I don't think they are in the mood to let anyone walk in to Ft Knox or the underground Manhattan vault and let anyone take what they want like it was confetti.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:52 | Link to Comment JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Lol. Fort Knox.

This is why you put an obvious liftable safe filled with junk in your bedroom or office labeled "valuables" or "gold" and hide the real stuff in a more unexpected location.

Fort Knox.

Right...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:17 | Link to Comment giggler321
giggler321's picture

just say, bitcoin...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

glad you mentioned it

if every one of those dickheads who bought bitcoin sold now and bought physical, we would crack comex and kill the beast

then they'll have enough spare wealth to buy whatever digital currency becomes the facebook to bitcoin's myspace

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:54 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

If 'every one of those dickheads who bought bitcoin sold now', surely the price would go to zero before they'd all cashed out?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Central banks must like their jewelry.

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:33 | Link to Comment HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Somebody cue the Indian guy in the gold shirt. 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:44 | Link to Comment Indian_Goldsmith
Indian_Goldsmith's picture

Yes, and i have a messaage for JPM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWouI-vVfi8

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:13 | Link to Comment angel_of_joy
angel_of_joy's picture

Bollocks !

Its perfect as Insurance & Wealth Preservation.

Only in its physical form though...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:16 | Link to Comment eXMachina
eXMachina's picture

Did you forget the sarc/ tag or are you just plain retarded?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:56 | Link to Comment supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Gold hits its golden age as a high-tech material

https://www.llnl.gov/news/aroundthelab/2012/Aug/ATL-082212_gold.html

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:11 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

FOFOA believes that falling paper gold means its ready to blow more so then rising paper gold.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:37 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

That is true.  But, is THIS the paper price decline or another one to come?  We wait, like watching and waiting on a pot of water to boil...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:11 | Link to Comment Pooper Popper
Pooper Popper's picture

Does anyone else wonder what Drawn ,stabbed,smashed ,runover,and drug behind a Rendering truck,used for a urinal cake Baked banker would Taste like????

Im thinking the rendering truck and urinal cake would get some of the bad taste out of your mouth,,,,But!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:11 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Exploration < 0

New mine projects = 0

Current mining ops < 100%

Time is on my side.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:11 | Link to Comment Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

Bond bubble- still intact

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:13 | Link to Comment FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Above ground gold supply = 100X annual mine supply.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment superflex
superflex's picture

Trollolololol

Time for a juice box and animal crackers kiddo?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:37 | Link to Comment Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

They mine 17 million tons of copper every year.  It is all above ground still.  Are you saying copper should be free?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:46 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

lmao. +1

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:05 | Link to Comment FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Not all of it. Much of the copper has been used in chemicals which can never be recovered. The rest is being put to productive use, unlike gold.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> unlike gold.

I can turn gold into pussy.  Try that with copper.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

And yet so many pinheads say there's no use for it!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:06 | Link to Comment SolarSystem1932
SolarSystem1932's picture

"And yet so many pinheads say there's no use for it!"

That's because they have pinheads.

hahahahahaha

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 06:28 | Link to Comment samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

I have turned pussy into gold a couple of times.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 06:44 | Link to Comment Svendblaaskaeg
Svendblaaskaeg's picture

"I can turn gold into pussy. Try that with copper"

save in gold, convert to 70'er pussy, shave, convert to gold, repeat, - winning!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:57 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Not all of it. Much of the copper has been used in chemicals which can never be recovered. The rest is being put to productive use, unlike gold.

Troll he might be, but he's fundamentally correct. Every other 'commodity' is just that - it gets used up. Even silver, though obviously the stock:flow ratio of silver is probably higher than anything else (apart from gold).

What Tr. Mellish fails to understand is that i) its almost perfect 'moneyness', and ii) its very uselessness for everything else, mean that gold has value as money.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:21 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I think Sufiy should get a little tip-of-the-hat on this subject, too.  He posted up some interesting articles earlier today in another thread.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:15 | Link to Comment RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Silly Rabbit:  They took it down in order to buy it, as usual.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:18 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

2,7 tons of gold.... so where does Hong Kong get's it gold from?

not from the comex, that's pretty much clear now. So most probably directly from the miners.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:10 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Story released last week (Koos Jansen) about a Swiss refiner who, in his 37 years, has not seen the physical gold market this tight.  He said that the gold they are having come in to be recast is 400 oz bars .995 purity, recast into 1 KG bars .999 for Asia and the ME.  Said it is coming "from the back corners of bank vaults, because much of it is stamped dated from the 1960's and .995 purity".

JPM is stealing the Comex / GLD gold.

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:53 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Stealing's such strong language.  Look at it this way, if there's an excess supply of paper gold, such that it exceeds demand, then the price for paper gold drops.  Well, since GLD is basically paper gold, people naturally sell it, which then leaves the participant banks holding the gold that nominally backed the shares.  What are they going to do with it?  Might as well sell it to the Asians at a premium, right?  So it's all above board, just happens to work out pretty good for the bullion banks, and pretty shitty for everyone else in the west in the long run.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

 

Story released last week (Koos Jansen) about a Swiss refiner who, in his 37 years, has not seen the physical gold market this tight.  He said that the gold they are having come in to be recast is 400 oz bars .995 purity, recast into 1 KG bars .999 for Asia and the ME.  Said it is coming "from the back corners of bank vaults, because much of it is stamped dated from the 1960's and .995 purity".

JPM is stealing the Comex / GLD gold.

This is inconsistent with the price action.  Where is the proof.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 10:45 | Link to Comment Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

nope:

Just a way to (quietly) weed out the Tungsten...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Sufiy
Sufiy's picture

Bloomberg: London Gold Vaults Are Virtually Empty

Bloomberg quite suddenly provides some really interesting information about the state of the gold market and ongoing manipulations around it these days. Could the reports about JPMorgan being Net Long Gold now be correct in the end?

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/bloomberg-london-gold-vaults-are.html

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:02 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Maybe they've been reading King World News? I've been dropping in on them occasionally for the last 5 years, and they have consistently said supplies had virtually run out, and the gold market was sputtering along on fumes.

FIVE YEARS! So they must be right by now, surely?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:22 | Link to Comment kill switch
kill switch's picture

Spot price is shit,  all paper, just keep this in mind...5000 years and 600 fiat currencies shit the bed and we didn't even get through the letter B GOLD/SILVER IS MONEY not currency know the difference.... KEEP STACKING WITH THIS VERY LOVLY GIFT FROM THE MORONS THAT THINK THEY ARE IN CONTROL....

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:23 | Link to Comment Carpenter1
Carpenter1's picture

I stopped believing anything reported by the likes of JPM, the US govt., anybody associated with the real estate industry, any politician, banker, or Keynesian economist has to say, long ago.

Though we think we're onto these criminals, we still accept at face value their claims. Why? They've proven themselves to be compulsive liars.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:34 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

stop making sense.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:31 | Link to Comment supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture
Gold hits its golden age as a high-tech material

https://www.llnl.gov/news/aroundthelab/2012/Aug/ATL-082212_gold.html

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Ancient Chinese Proverb: Wise man buy gold when he cannot buy Bitcoin.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:46 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Last night China was back in business buying BTC!  It is early AM (before dawn) there now, they are buying, but it is subdued (which is typical of US afternoons).

 

http://btccast.com/

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:57 | Link to Comment Martel
Martel's picture

Bitcoin is dead in China. They won't be "back in business", as there is currently no way for them to fund their accounts. There is some buying going on, but it is done by those who sold before the collapse, and have renmimbis on their accounts.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:24 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

As I am no expert on BTC nor (especially) China, your explanation makes sense.  The movements I see at btccast.com might just reflect exactly what you are saying.  Last night there was a LOT of BTC/Yuan traded at the Chinese exchanges, but I cannot comment well on what exactly I was looking at.

 

Follow up edit:

At some 40 minutes of btccast scrolling by, I note that the USA accounted for approx. 1456 BTC traded via exchanges vs. some 775 BTC traded at Chinese exchanges.  The ratio of US BTC / Chinese BTC traded has been typical of what I have seen in the past during US weekday late afternoons.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:47 | Link to Comment stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

this is like saying, pot is illegal in the us, so there's no way for americans to obtain pot.

where there's a will, there's a way.

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:56 | Link to Comment eXMachina
eXMachina's picture

Bitcoin is alive and will continue kicking on. The Chinese government stated that citizens cannot fund their crypto accounts with Renminbi. They didn't say anything about USD or any other currency for that matter. ie. speculate with someone else's currency if you wish to do so.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:43 | Link to Comment GNandGL
GNandGL's picture

Looks like JPM has a large physical delivery to make on Dec. 31 (just like the last slamdown below $1200 led up to June 30).

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:44 | Link to Comment CHX
CHX's picture

After a run from ~250 to 1900 in ~11 years, the physical market was close to break, so *some entity/etities* papershorted the crap out of the market, in well organized drive-by shooting style, and as frustrated weak hands / late-comers dropped dead or threw in the towels, the strong PAPER shorts broke the goldbugs euphoric sentiment. We've been cascading down for over a year now, and are now in the accumulation zone for physical. Previous shorts are covering (with much fiat gains) and pass them to the new shorts and momentum chasers (the late bears, and future bag holders). The physical metal is your/our insurence to what's in the cards, it's real money with no counterparty risk. Rejoice the pull back, it will not last. Do as the Chinese, the Russians, the Indians (that's ~ a thrid of the human population on the plant) and JPM do. The bull is not dead. We are witnessing a PAPER BEAR and a run on the metal, a physical bull in 2013 and beyond. If things continue like that, the divergence between the two will eventually break the current market place (LBMA/COMEX) due to some sort of default, kill the miners, and then the shortages in physical metal cannot be hidden anymore, and it's game over. We're getting close to free gold. Good luck to all.  

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:54 | Link to Comment Arius
Arius's picture

i am not sure how successful they were in breaking the "weak hands" ... what does that mean anyway?  the people, banks, institutions countries who wanted to buy it, they were not going to buy it because it was at 1900 ... there are other reasons.

if they want to sell this as a victory so be it ... who cares.  the players who have sold actual gold know pretty well this is not a victory.  they have sold the same amount, my guess would be even more than what would have been in the years when gold was 1400, 1500, 1600, 1700 or 1800.

thats how you calculate if this was a victory on "weak hands"  how much gold they sold per year?  my guess would be much higher ... good luck with the "weak hand" theory.  that is for people like Jamie to justify their mistakes .... if they had left gold around 1700-1800 the amount of gold sold would have been lower, but we would never know that would we?  so, let jamie at al claim victory over the "weak hands"  .... yeah right ... how much gold did they collect from the weak hands??? nada

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:01 | Link to Comment giggler321
giggler321's picture

2/3 of the world's people won't exist when things go pop so who's left to care about gold?  and they've been mining it for years so anyone with it dug into the ground for safe keeping will find some future miner has dug it up.

 

traditionally december is top for the yellow metal but ofcourse it's different this time right?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:39 | Link to Comment AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Do you even know what you typed?  You sarcastically stated:

"traditionally december is top for the yellow metal but ofcourse it's different this time right?"

The implication being that it is NOT different this time.  

Well, if December is to be "the top" as you imply, and given that gold is now at a low for the year, then it looks like we have a moonshot ahead of us in the next couple of weeks.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Short miners, buy physical and hide it - I like it, good plan.

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 04:53 | Link to Comment CHX
CHX's picture

Bcs of what's to come for gold, good miners (i.e. the ones that will not go bankrupt, that have good reserves in ground, low/no debt and mostly financed their projects, i.e. won't have to further sell/dilute their stock) are probably the most undervalued companies out there right now. When gold turns, it will be violent, and the miners will explode, and you'll wish you'd had bought some. If you don't own any, do your research, nibble a bit, and average down, should they go still lower. I think most of the gold decline is already price in here. Some are down >90% from their tops in 2011, projects are being halted/suspended/put on ice etc.. Ultimately/eventually, the gold price will be reset, in all fiat currencies, sometimes in the next few months to years, either by edict (IMF/TPTB), some other violent market or black swan event. A reset scenario would likely happen over a weekend, or else be so quick and violent that whoever is "out", won't be able to get back "in" (go try chasing them algos !) , but that's just IMHO. 

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 06:36 | Link to Comment samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

al, do you back up what you say? are you actually shorting miners for 2014.

They are sure to double. i like it good plan. Fixed it for ya.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:50 | Link to Comment fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Keep bringing the price on down baby.  I'll keep buying until the LCS won't sell.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:54 | Link to Comment TooBearish
TooBearish's picture

The jpmorgue killed it. o i miss the bear cartoons telling us that the morgue is going down because of its massive short silver position.  with silver down over 50% from its highz and gold down 30% one can only conclude there is no beating these guys. yeah I get that physical premiums r at their widest but it cannot be ognored that jamie and his crimnal syndicate r #winning. I'm with the stackers not so much about the price just the amount you can collect.  howeve blythe and her hinchmen have made so major fiat for the morgue distroying the paper markets...and that's all I gots to saaay about thaat

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 18:55 | Link to Comment chump666
chump666's picture

They know a crisis is about to hit.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:04 | Link to Comment FranSix
FranSix's picture

They must be behind the 'volatility smile.' (light grey curves)  It would explain a great deal.  Anyone shorting here is probably just rolling the dice, whereas long bets are less likely to be wrong:

http://scharts.co/18tFEEK

 

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:11 | Link to Comment WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

Get me 'beaks' on the trombone.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:15 | Link to Comment Archetype
Archetype's picture

Who the fuck cares about gold? All the gold in the world would barely pay the Cyprus deficit. Get it? NOT. WORTH. ANYTHING.

 

Everything is a scam. Pay for stuff you actually need. Simple as that.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:19 | Link to Comment Seeking Beta
Seeking Beta's picture

True Story

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:19 | Link to Comment jimmytorpedo
jimmytorpedo's picture

My two car garage is full of toilet paper and a 1984 Mercedes 300d

Fri, 12/20/2013 - 06:36 | Link to Comment samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

i stash toilet paper also mixed with 30 year old. scotch.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:16 | Link to Comment semperfi
semperfi's picture

its headed to Germany

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:18 | Link to Comment NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

There are two things you always have to be careful of when you see numbers like this.  First, as in another post - do you believe the numbers, and Second - no matter what JPM has in physical gold, their leveraged paper gold position is likely to be many multiples higher.

I used to think that a trader for JPM (or other big bank) would simply place their leveraged bets on one position.  It is far more believable today to think that JPM has both leveraged short term bearish position in paper gold (hence the desire to see the price drop in the next few months), and they also have longer term bullish positions in paper gold.  Depending on how those bullish positions are set up, JPM may want physical gold so that they don't have to cancel out every buy/sell pair of paper contracts.

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:20 | Link to Comment Archetype
Archetype's picture

Who needs gold? Tell me please!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:49 | Link to Comment A. Magnus
A. Magnus's picture

Ask the Chinese, Indians, Turkish and Russians, fuckmook...

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 19:55 | Link to Comment Archetype
Archetype's picture

Its fucking pennys for them they might aswell buy it. AGIAN who cares in the end? Why is gold such a sensitive subject? Why not oil, lumber, gasoline, food, whatever?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment cro_maat
cro_maat's picture

All of those commodities are PERISHABLE. Gold that was dug up 5,000 years ago is still sitting in the same gold buddha at a temple in the East. It doesn't rust, corrode or deteriate. It is a store of value. Hell you can even flaunt it as jewelry. And before you say oil is a store of value then why don't the Chinese, Indians, Russians, etc. all have oil storage tanks out back for their wealth accumulation?

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:56 | Link to Comment Archetype
Archetype's picture

"And before you say oil is a store of value then why don't the Chinese, Indians, Russians, etc. all have oil storage tanks out back for their wealth accumulation?"

 

They DO have!

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 20:32 | Link to Comment WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

Nope fuckwit, those are not leveraged 1000/1.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:08 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

 AGIAN who cares in the end? Why is gold such a sensitive subject?

Here! Let me give you some clues:

1913. 97%. 1971. $4Trillion. IRS. Endless fuckin' wars. Oil priced in USD. 62.8% participation rate.

Go research those number, Biffy, and come back when there's a glean of understanding in your eye.

 

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 21:39 | Link to Comment Archetype
Archetype's picture

Get your point. But it seems to be a Buffet-kinda bet to me. I hate Buffet and I probably wont live as long as him. And I do belive deflation is coming, no one left to borrow money = no inflation.

Thu, 12/19/2013 - 22:18 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

No one left to borrow = deflation = currency collapse = gold remonetized/widespread asset confiscation/hyperinflation/fuck knows but I'd rather have a portion of my assets held in lien in a vault out of the banking system in another country. And gold is a very good way of doing this.

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