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NSA Spying Blowback Continues - Boeing Loses Brazil Jet Order
First CSCO cited Government (NSA)-related cuts for its dismal results and now Boeing, considered the front-runner, has lost a $4.5 billion contract to provide jets to Brazil because, as officials exclaimed, "the NSA problem ruined it for the Americans." Sweden's Saab won the contract instead for 36 new fighters to be delivered by 2020. As Reuters reports, one U.S. source close to the negotiations said that whatever intelligence the spying had delivered for the American government was unlikely to outweigh the commercial cost of the revelations. "Was that worth 4 billion dollars?" the source asked.
Brazil awarded a $4.5 billion contract to Saab AB on Wednesday to replace its aging fleet of fighter jets, a surprise coup for the Swedish company after news of U.S. spying on Brazilians helped derail Boeing's chances for the deal.
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Aside from the cost of the jets themselves, the agreement is expected to generate billions of additional dollars in future supply and service contracts.
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The timing of the announcement, after more than a decade of off-and-on negotiations, appeared to catch the companies involved by surprise.
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Until earlier this year, Boeing's F/A-18 Super Hornet had been considered the front runner. But revelations of spying by the U.S. National Security Agency in Brazil, including personal communication by Rousseff, led Brazil to believe it could not trust a U.S. company.
"The NSA problem ruined it for the Americans," a Brazilian government source said on condition of anonymity.
A U.S. source close to the negotiations said that whatever intelligence the spying had delivered for the American government was unlikely to outweigh the commercial cost of the revelations.
"Was that worth 4 billion dollars?" the source asked.
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"We are a peaceful country, but we won't be defenseless," Rousseff said on Wednesday at a lunch with senior officials from Brazil's military, where she said the announcement was forthcoming. "A country the size of Brazil must always be ready to protect its citizens, patrimony and sovereignty."
It seems the NSA Spying blowback is just beginning...
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US Defense contractors,and NSA,
Fuck you you treasonous motherfuckers!!! I hope you all are tried and prosecuted for treason and crimes against humanity.
At minimum, none of you should be hired for a job beyond scooping pig shit for the rest of your lives.
4 billion, shit that will be just a drop in the bucket by the time this plays all the way out!!!
The EU, lead by Germany, will at some point probably stop trading with US entirely!! Who needs friends like the US, when you can get everything you need from China, Russia, Brazil, and India!!
It may take another 5-8 years, but the quiet boycott of America has begun and will continue, until one day we all wake up, and were Iran!
It's still less than 2 days' worth of post-taper QE.
...and Boeing is, thus, yet another new mouth for the Fed to feed with ... uh ... post-taper QE.
Inconceivable!
Governments don't give a shit about commercial contracts, as long as you pay your taxes and are not planning to overthrow them. They need to be sure of this, hence more spying.
How about spreading the words to millions of Americans to get the hell outta America soil and the govt will not be able to revenue taxes from us.
anything to do with the success of the dream liner?
Brazil and air force in the same sentence..., it just doesn't sound right.
4 billion. Oh my fucking god. They taught Obama, Ben, and Jamie a real fucking lesson.
Ben prints that about every 1.5 days.
nice twist indeed. sweden is the main partner of NSA in baltic region as the telecommunication cables at the bottom of the baltic sea run through The Swedish National Defence Radio Establishment (FRA) and the program has a codename SARDINE. all the traffic from baltic states, from russian government and from russian private companies is filtered by FRA and then shared with NSA and british GCHQ because swedish government/FRA are nothing else than national level subcontractor to US and GB.
even more interesting is that saab chairman is marcus wallenberg. wallenbergs to sweden are even worse than rockefellers are to usa and redshields are to europe.
from wiki: The Wallenberg sphere, an international banking- and industry group under the control of Wallenberg family through the holding company Investor AB, based in Stockholm, Sweden, is today Europe's largest family-controlled business empire. In Sweden alone, the sphere was estimated to indirectly control about a third of the national GDP in 1990.
My first thought was wondering who has compromised SAAB.
Given the length of time the world has been ruled by central banks, I can't imagine there's any manufacturer not thoroughly invaded by some intelligence service, or purchased/founded by some club member.
moreover, central banks are often owned by banks who are owned by selected families. it's really a closed circle.
i haven't had time to thouroughly go into wallenbergs but quick search online shows quite a familiar story.
"In Sweden, characterized any discussion about the family of unquestioning admiration. The few who dared to critically examine the family are gently but firmly off the track. See, eg, the former longtime Express - journalist Ulf Nilson, who found it impossible to get his book about the secret collaboration between the Wallenberg family and the Social Democratic Party published in Sweden.
"In the disputes that have arisen in the wake of North's and FBI's illegal, secret recording in the summer of 1989 by the undersigned who allegedly present serious criminals, we have found out that it is if anything more difficult to get an action pending in the courts against SE-Banken than against Nordbanken . If no target is directly dismissed on the grounds that because the documents are missing landscape year after year and nothing happens. Why? Who are they who have such enormous power over the Swedish legal system?
It relocated to Brussels Göteborg Tryggve Charles Stone, who has a number of disputes in the Swedish courts with a number of banks as counterparties, said in a newspaper interview in the GP on how the SE bank's general counsel took him aside when he sued the banks, and said:
''You should know that our banks own the courts and the newspapers in this country. We will crush you like a little louse.'' (Note 352)"
http://isjulianassangeatradedeal.blogspot.com/2011/11/wallenberg-empire....
+ 4 billion for your insight.
layman_please wrote: "i haven't had time to thouroughly go into wallenbergs..."
You can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bilderberg_participants#Sweden_2
Note that both Jacob Wallenberg (Chairman of Investor AB) and Börje Ekholm (President & CEO of Investor AB) were present at Bilderberg 2013.
Not once do you say his name.
You are a fucking egotistical ingrate who can play smart at the expense of a better man than you who brought you this information.
Not once!
C'mon Sardine, you can do better than that.
Say his name, bitch!
i'm not taking any credit here and i have provided a link to the source which should be obvious. instead of littering the board with personal insults you could have done us all a favor and included the name yourself but you chose to go ad hominem which i guess makes you feel a better man in your own mind.
Nah man, I was trying to get a rise out of you and I went overboard- I apologize.
You still haven't said his name.... ;)
and i thought i hit a nerv. d'oh!
his name is Ulf Nilsson. his name is Ulf Nilsson. his name is Ulf Nilsson.
cheers mate!
Thank you! Right you are...
Also-
In 2011, WikiLeaks revealed US diplomatic cables, which said that FRA was able to monitor some 80 percent of Russia’s internet traffic, which passed through Sweden, and that the country had adopted a new wiretapping law to allow such actions due to Washington pressure.
The man the who (among many other things) exposed this FRA-NSA boondoggle- Julian Assange
http://rt.com/news/sweden-us-information-swedish/
The man who (among many other things) demonstrated proof of it- Edward Snowden
http://www.svt.se/ug/nsafra4
I raise my glass and toast to all of them, and all like them- by name.
I am grateful to them, and many others, as should be most freedom-loving human beings. They have truly opened the world's eyes to what is going on.
Cheers indeed!
second that, gallistic! as we have only seen 1% of the rabbit hole, there's still lot to come. fortunately!
@layman
As you correctly point out the Swedish government is ass deep in with the NSA and is concidered to be the most important partner outside of the English speaking countries Thishas been the case since the cold war despite her declared neutrality.
no doubt. if somebody is really into conspiracy theories then swedish government actions before and after cruise ferry Estonia disaster in 1994, where 852 people lost their lives, provide enough controversy.
"The Estonia ferry had been the object of bomb threats and had participated in at least two terror bomb exercises in 1994, one in February and another just the day before it sank."
"On February 2, 1994, Estonia was the subject of a major mock bomb exercise conducted with RITS, Sweden's maritime fire and rescue agency, and the Stockholm police."
"Although it is seldom mentioned, the Estonia catastrophe occurred on the first day of a 10-day NATO naval exercise called Cooperative Venture 94, in which more than fifteen ships and "a number of maritime aircraft" were prepared to conduct "humanitarian and search and rescue operations" in nearby waters."
http://www.bollyn.com/the-terror-drills-that-became-real
If someone is into conspiracy theories, then one would say that Sweden is USA's 51st state. 2 facts to prove that statement:
1. Brzezinski Jr. is the current US ambassador in Stockholm;
2. Swedish corporate media is much more interested in events (and non-events) coming out of US than in domestic or European news (pretty obvious for those who live here).
"Raoul's [Wallenberg] grandmother's grandfather was a Jew by the name of Benedicks whom arrived to Sweden by the end of the 18th century" (Source).
I believe you are still taxed as an American citizen anywhere in the world... and with the new IRS compliance laws, no foreign bank will open an account for an American... thus the only option is to give up your citizenship.... of course then they will probably just drone strike you....
Unfortunately they will:
http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Corporations/Foreign-Account-Tax-Compliance-Act-(FATCA)
This onerous piece of US legislatiin is being foistered on the rest of the world by your IRS. We have to dob in all US citizens and companies and they will make sure you are paying everything Uncle Sam is due.
"How about spreading the words to millions of Americans to get the hell outta America soil and the govt will not be able to revenue taxes from us."
Youthinks wrong.
Governments may not care but industry does. Who did kill Kennedy anyway?
OMEW, Kennedy was a mobster's son. His dad most likely whacked many. RFK turned on the mob as Attorney General. Both brothers swam with the fishes.
Kennedy's Dad smuggled $80 million dollars worth of Canadian Whiskey across the border during the Prohibition days...as the story goes
I can respect that.
"was that worth 4 billion dollars?" the source asked."
"Well, Freedom™ aint free" -the NSA
Somebody with balls would sue the US government, but Boeing will likely be rewarded with increased gubmint contracts to make up for the loss...
SSDD
Remember that story about how the NSA has been "altering" the amounts deposited in certain accounts? My guess is that they weren't taking money away.
BINGO! The US government will funnel 4 billion plus of cost plus contracts for more pentagon toys to Boeing to make up for their loss. That is a sure bet!
It's still less than 2 days' worth of post-taper QE.
Well that's an interesting point, I mean just think if they'ed of invested in the real economy and built fighter jets. We'd have a shed load now with lots of people employed. Déjà vu; Which war was that?
Well... All of this strikes me as deeply ironic given that he Swedish secret service is partners with the NSA and helps them 100% with data gathering. Giving the contract to Sweden is no different. There are no good-guys on the playing field.
One must always choose the lesser of two weevils.
The Brazilians should have purchased Russian jets if they wanted to get back at the US.
Anything but stuff from USA will do. And this is going to spread. Talking about shooting yourself in the foot. But whatever the American government gets, they have deserved it and much more. I wish it wasen't so, but it is.
The USA kills more people every year than all terorists added together. By some accounts about 10 million people have died as a result of American involvement since the second world war.
The rest of the world have had it.
Honestly - many of the Rooskie's fighers are probably better than anything SAAB puts out. Certainly they are more maintenance-friendly.
Not to mention the pint of vodka stashed under every seat...
Fear of loosing the contract will keep Swede in check. No one wants to be near a crumbling skyscraper.
"All of this strikes me as deeply ironic given that he Swedish secret service is partners with the NSA and helps them 100% with data gathering. Giving the contract to Sweden is no different. There are no good-guys on the playing field."
Popo, there are many important differences which you absolutely do not grasp with your simplistic equating of the Swedes with the NSA or US.
One very important difference is that there is a technology transfer involved between SAAB and Embraer for this purchase.
There are very compelling economic reasons too, for ex.- the F-18 simply does not provide as much bang for the buck as other fighters. Its cost is disproportionate to the export version's performance. This also extends to the many subsequent years of service, maintenance and operating costs.
There are many political reasons too, for ex.- Brazil does not want to give the US direct leverage over their defense. The US is a very unreliable partner for maintaining equipment, frequently suspending service contracts, spare parts, and upgrades as blatant political leverage.
Another political reason is to send a message. Dilma Rousseff bluntly and very publicly lambasted the US government for their political, personal, and perhaps more importantly, economic espionage activities in Brazil when she spoke at the UN.
Brazil is mad enough to tell Obama to fuck off and deliberately and abruptly cancel a long-planned head of state summit. They did not even bother to play nice and make up a face-saving excuse.
Brazil is mad enough to take action, presenting a UN project with Germany to severely curtail indiscriminate US internet espionage activities and have penalties imposed. They are mad enough to host a wide ranging international summit in Sao Paulo in 2014 to address this and other issues.
So as you can see, it is not quite "the same" to purchase the next-generation Gripens from the Swedes, even if they are NSA flunkies and stooges.
All of the high tech stuff on the Saab Gripen including the Radar system etc are USA licensed and SAAB cannot transfer any of that technology. There is nothing really that Saab can give to Brazil as far as cuting edge software and radar systems are concerned.
Interesting point- I am not by any stretch familiar with the Gripen's systems and who they are licensed to. Many of the trade publications and official pronouncements on the deal talk about the technology transfer but specific details are not available in anything I've seen.
I call bullshit. Saab is actually trying to build a presence in the US so it can import it's military equipment to the US for major defense contracts. Please provide sources for your ridiculous assumptions.
It does not matter a bit what you "call". What is this, grade school?
If you do not know enough to refute these simple, easily verifiable statements maybe you should not post on it.
No, I will not do your homework for you and I do not feel like giving you the answers to the test. Do your own damn work and if you learn something different, come back and discuss it.
I call "lazy" and I raise it to "uninformed".
Grade school is where they teach you the burden of proof is on the one making a claim. I know the answer already, thanks. And BtW my comment was not directed towards you so perhaps brush up on how comments work as well.
Grade school might also teach you that in any adversarial process, you cannot expect the other guy to gather facts for you, much less make your argument.
Nevertheless- point taken Captain; I could have sworn the comment was directed at me. I really do need to learn how comments and replies work.
Touché"Renewable Life", You have just hit upon a major point in America's economic future when you mentioned "quiet boycott"! I know this is early days, but the news coming out of China is that a quiet boycott of US software and hardware is in an infant stage. Knowing now that the American companies put backdoors for the NSA into every product has prompted China to seek ways around US produced computers and software. That alone is epic. But the Brazil story shows that America can tell every nation to "get fucked", but we will pay a price. The loss of that contract is small in the world economy, but huge to the many Americans who work for Boeing and it's contractors.
I have heard that Russia is on board with a slow but growing quiet boycott. The Bricks in general will be tempted to follow and even some EU entites may be thinking twice.
America is not so all powerful that we can do this spying to the entire globe and think we will walk away untouched.
Your catching on to this point is the most important thing in this story, the possible spread of a "quiet boycott" of American products. We can destroy any nation, and we can sanction all hell out of Iran, but who we piss off may just be those who decide trade with Iran is good. Just look at China, why would they follow the US sanctions on Iran? No reason.
This just proves that that it is much more effective for the NSA to spy on domestic civilian population as the downside risk is limited.
The problem is, the .gov is losing legitimacy in everyone's eyes, and the tools of violence they have are not sufficient to suppress the people in the US. They simply don't have the troop strength, logistics, and the terrain is too large and complex. If they take it to an openly kinetic operation, those in power WILL lose and WILL face justice. If history is any guide, everyone associated with these .gov sanctioned criminal acts will probably be executed or face the rest of their lives in a jail cell.
They've already lost. Now it's just a matter of how bad they're going to make it for themselves, and how many people they are going to murder in their fall.
These scumbags are the type that will take as many with them as they can. Narcissitic psycho MoFos.
BTW Larry Waterhouse says hi.
If history is any guide, everyone associated with these .gov sanctioned criminal acts will probably be executed or face the rest of their lives in a jail cell.
Au contraire, if history is any guide, only a tiny fraction of tyrants and their minions get anything like their just desserts. Those that do just happen to be tyrannising at the wrong place and time. Most of them do very well, thank you very much... that's why they do it in the first place.
I think you i) overestimate the percentage of Americans who would physically resist, and ii) underestimate .gov's knowledge of who they are.
Furthermore, I invite you to compare the resistance mindsets of US citizens over time.
Imagine if some airport thug tried to finger-rape your daughter back in the 30's for 'national security'; you'd have punched him on the nose. Now? Happens every day. How many people resist?
In 5, 10, 15 years, more and more US citizens will be dependent on .gov for food and other handouts. Meanwhile, the collection of data on the types of people who would resist carries on... and, more to the point, the people who could 'lead' such a movement.
.gov don't have to kill every patriot, because even most patriots are waiting for leaders to rise up and lead the resistance. You see, though 'patriots' - unlike their sleeping compatriots - may know right from wrong, they're no more likely to do anything about it than anyone else.
So .gov only have to kill/discredit the leaders... and the 'patriots' will carry on doing what they've done throughout the fascisification of America - absolutely nothing... apart from coming onto blogs like ZH and bitching.
Sorry, we're fucked.
Please excuse the long quote:
The Virtues of a Disorganized Resistance
Stephen DeVoy
Break Your Chains
American opposition movements have always focused on the notion of organization. It has always been their goal to organize the people. Their hope has been to wield the collective power of the disaffected, downtrodden, and exploited as a single unit against the concentrated power of the ruling class. While their hope has been noble, their methods have been foolish. Organized resistance has many drawbacks. These drawbacks have seldom been discussed by the opposition. We believe that the only effective resistance is a completely disorganized, decentralized, and leaderless opposition.
While, on the face of it, this claim may impress you as absurd. Of course it seems absurd! It is counterintuitive. Never the less, it is the ONLY method of resistance that will work within American society. We will explain why organized resistance has never worked in the United States. In addition, we will promulgate a new formula for effective resistance.
Why has organized resistance failed in the United States?
There are many reasons for the failure of organized resistance. The two primary causes of failure are intimately connected to the culture of the United States and the political system laid down by our nation's founding fathers.
The Cultural Cause
Americans, culturally, are anarchists. Few Americans realize this. Most Americans have a false understanding of the term "anarchism." However, upon examining the beliefs of your average American, you will find that most Americans: do not trust leaders, do not trust government, wish to be left alone, value their privacy, think of themselves as independent from society, do not believe that there is a systemic solution to their problems, believe that others should be free to do what they choose, provided they do so in private and do not harm others
While it is undeniable that political culture in the United States often speaks to the opposite of the above list, it is also undeniable that most Americans register as neither Democrat or Republican and most Americans do not vote. Thus, despite the political culture, most Americans choose not to participate in it. This is not only due to their belief that the American political system is hopeless, but also is due to the cultural clash between the wider culture and the political culture.
Any attempt to organize large numbers of Americans into a single political movement will fail. Any attempt to create an organization led by a strong group of leaders will fail. Americans reject submersion into the collective. In a sense, Americans are anti-collectivists.
The Political Cause
American political culture is not ideological. Politicians attempt to draw ideological distinctions between the two major parties, but these distinctions are a matter of splitting hairs. The only significant difference between the two political parties is the degree of compassion represented by the rhetoric of the two parties. Compassion is not a political concept. Compassion is an attitude. Thus, the two parties differ, primarily, in attitude and not ideology.
Despite this, there remain two political parties. One is prompted to ask "why?" If each party is basically the same, with respect to ideology, why do they not merge into one party? The answer to this question is best found in viewing each political party according to its true nature. American political parties are, for all intents and purposes, organized crime units. American political parties have more in common with the Mafia than they have with their counterparts in more democratic societies. Like Mafia, each political party competes for control of territory in order to maximize the benefit to their business constituency. Like Mafia, the political parties attempt to mold the system to maintain their positions and access to resources. Like Mafia, the political parties force the average citizen to pay "protection" under the threat of violence (taxes). Like Mafia each political party uses the "protection" money collected for its own advantage.
By defining our political system in terms of the "majority" and the "opposition," our Constitution enshrines this two mafia system into law. Each Mafia passes laws to exclude new comers from the game while focusing the rest of its energy in destroying the other Mafia.
Thus, any resistance movement that chooses to become an organization is in competition with these Mafiosi. The deck is stacked and the power of the state, wielded by these organized crime units known as the Democratic and Republican parties, will waste the time and resources of any newcomer. A newcomer can only succeed by rejecting the political system, draining its resources, and undermining the rule of the state.
How is disorganized resistance superior?
In some societies, dissidents become heroes. In American society dissidents are systematically slandered, libeled, harassed, and villainized. If they become successful, they are murdered (e.g. Martin Luther King, Malcolm X). In the American experience, movements that look to leaders are decapitated. Leaders are a liability, not an asset. Organizations can be (and are) infiltrated. Organizations can be taxed. Organizations have legal responsibility. Organizations have membership lists and lists are wonderful tools for the oppressor. Organizations take on a life of their own. They struggle to exist and their continued existence takes priority over their mission. Organizations attract opportunists, power mongers, and attention seekers. Organizations tend to exploit their rank and file for the benefit of their inner circle. Disorganizations share none of these defects.
Bureaucracy cannot comprehend disorganization. Disorganization is invisible. The asymmetry of the relationship between organization and disorganization favors disorganization. Organization depends upon planning. Planning requires predictability. Disorganization cannot be predicted. This leaves organization at a disadvantage.
Organization requires a supply chain. Supply chains can be disrupted. Disorganization depends only upon the resources of its members. Supply chains that do not exist cannot be eliminated.
Disorganized movements rely upon swarming. Swarms are difficult to defend against. If you cut a swarm in half, you have two swarms. If you eliminate one of the resulting swarms, you still have a swarm. Disorganization breeds. Organization grows. The many and dispersed are a more difficult target than the large and concentrated.
Organizations takes their steps by design. If the design is flawed, the organization fails. Disorganization relies not upon design but upon evolution. The motivating notions of disorganization are memes. Memes evolve and memes compete. This process improves the motivating notions of disorganization. This process produces multiple courses of action. While some may fail, others are likely to succeed. Taken as a whole, disorganization is more likely to succeed.
The important thing to remember is that it is easier to destroy than to create that which is designed. Thus, the cost to those who lose the manifestation of their design outweighs by leaps and bounds the cost it takes to destroy it. That which evolves is cheap and when an effort is created to destroy the evolved entity, it merely mutates and evolves again, adjusting to the new conditions. As a process that fosters evolution, a movement based on disorganization will continue to survive, evolve, and expand without cost. The resource constraints placed upon the designed (e.g. government and corporate) and those absent from the evolved (a decentralized and disorganized opposition movement), favor the later.
The limits of disorganization
We do not propose a complete absence of organization. Instead we propose a disorganization of units. Units can be as small as a single individual, or as complex as cell of individuals working together. Cells may be internally organized, but they should not be statically organized cell to cell. The movement should have no commander. It should have no central committee or governing body. No global plans should be made. The modus operandi of each unit should be to think globally and act locally. Ideas, strategies, and tactics should float freely and compete as memes within the medium of the collective conscious.
Conclusions
We need to construct a disorganized movement. You need not apply to join. In fact, it might be better if you did not contact anyone except those with whom you wish to form a unit. Your ideas, strategies, tactics, and lessons learned should be spread anonymously or by word of mouth. When you act, should you decide to act in resistance, attribute your actions to "the Resistance." The growing din of disorganized disruption will be felt as an earthquake. There will be trembles. There will be pre-shocks. The tension will mount and, in time, there will be an earthquake. When that earthquake strikes, the organized edifice of the oppressor will fall like a house of cards.
Yeah, I remember reading that, it's good. But looking around I just don't see a bunch of 'lone wolf' patriots giving .gov any shocks. Boiling frogs and sheep and all that. People are waiting for everyone else to start it. That takes either a seriously large subsection of the community, or a charismatic leader. If it's the latter, he'll either be co-opted or killed. If it's the former... then I'll eat my hat. Happily, because it means we'll be on a better path without bloodshed but I'm not optimistic.
The thing is... you can't liberate people who don't want to be free. And I feel at this point that you could have a revolution and imprison the elites, and the following morning the sheep would just elect a new batch of overlords. That's how we got where we are NOW. What's changed? The people have sacrificed liberty for security, and have got neither... but at least they get foodstamps.
I understand your points. Though there is a property many are overlooking: Structural Criticality
One day, it's going to break, and we may have a modern Bastille day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_criticality
And I take your point. But I think the 'unstable' sandpile is becoming increasingly stable in direct proportion to the amount of lanolin in it.
That's a good one. That gave me a laugh.
Seriously though, these things go through phases. Now is the phase of the .gov losing legitimacy, informing other people, and civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is a funny thing. Now you've got Sheriffs across the country, and some states telling the .gov to stick it. These occurences will only increase.
This is all happening during a time of increased pressure on the gov apparatus, currency, empire, etc. A soviet style collapse is coming whether they want it or not. They can't keep the gold market under their power forever. Once that breaks, and money printing no longer has any positive effect for them, it's over and things will unravel rather quickly. They really don't even have to initiate massive violence to lose. Laws of complex systems are out to get them. It will fail on it's own eventually.
At some point there will be a decision to make, go along and try to appease the people likely resulting in some permutation of fracturing of the US, or they try to impose extreme violence on civilians in order to regain control. By the time they reach the point of initiating violence on civilians, they will have lost all legitimacy, and will have lost the war anyway. One could make an argument we've already reached that point. Using stasi tactics to destroy people's reputations only works so long, and it's efficacy is starting to run thin.
If I were on their side, my strategy would be to conduct a managed retreat to attempt to hold on to key strategic states on the east coast of manageable size, then let the rest of the country fall into disarray and fracture for cover (economic, etc), kinda like Russia after the fall. They simply cannot hold all the ground, don't have the real resources, cannot manage the exponential complexity increase, and trying may just bring more unpleasantness for themselves.
Well, I'm long on the PMs, having bought into the phyzz/paper split argument myself, but let's examine some of the assumptions about what happens if there is a COMEX default.
OK, gold goes up. A lot.. and maybe (hopefully!) silver along with it. But I think USD will keep being used worldwide as the reserve currency as long as our satraps in OPEC keep demanding it.
I'd personally like to see a fractured USA because I think large, wealthy polities are just too prone to sociopathic hijacking and becoming imperial. Of course if the US splits into 5 or more bits, then Russia and China will probably start asserting themselves in our stead.
Fuck it, we'll worry about that 'when' the time comes. I hope you have a great Friday night :-)
I wholeheartedly agree. I'm not sure if the comex will have a spectacular default. I'm guessing they'll do paper settlement like the ABN Amro debacle. I can't, for the life of me understand how they've kept people from panicking into physical yet. It's just a matter of time until it happens, or some other country opens an exchange and breaks the glass.
Have a great evening as well! Thanks!
"Now you've got Sheriffs across the country, and some states telling the .gov to stick it. These occurences will only increase."
Got pulled over for doing 40 in a 20 MPH active school zone coming down the mountain with a load of wood the other day. Was very blessed that it was an officer that was met in the past. He said that most of the sheriffs are awake in the very large county and they were on board with the constitution. They are very aware of the babylonian empire of dust in their babalonic take over, and subjugation of America. They all, as well as the local county-mounties, are NOT going for any of it at all. They see the russians and chinese infiltrating and KNOW where they live.
He revealed that all the Sheriffs have a plan to deputize half to three quarters of every county when the first signs of a takeover by DHS, or any other false flag type of chaos is intentionally created by .gov to take over America happens. Say, in just one of the many counties there are 78,000 residents. That could be up to 58,500 armed sharp shooting American Hunters in just one county alone that would stand up for the Rule of Law and the Constitution that IS the LAW OF THE LAND. Any violators of the Law of the Land by any invaders or criminals will be severely dealt with. There are prolly 55 to 60 counties in one state alone. Go figure.
The kind officer also said, the new program of "give em a break" is ongoing across the country. Many officers are giving a lot of people a break for any kind of non-threatening violations to gain the support of their fellow citizens and neighbors. If you are pulled over and given a huge break by not being given a ticket for some violation or another, will you not have a beholding feeling towards that officer? "Have a good day sir, and you might fix that rear left taillight too" were his last words. It was old school Law Enforcement at is finest. Down the road the load of wood went, the kind officers card in hand.
That's an an awesome story! I hope they keep up the work to get more sheriffs departments on-board. You certainly brightened my day! Thanks!
Are you fucking serious?
coming down the mountain with a load of wood
Was very blessed (sic) that it was an officer that was met (sic) in the past.
most of the sheriffs are awake in the very large county and they were (sic) on board with the constitution
They see the russians (sic)and chinese (sic) infiltrating and KNOW where they live
The kind officer also said, the new program of "give em (sic) a break" is ongoing across the country.
Many officers are giving a lot of people a break for any kind of non-threatening violations (?) to gain the support of their fellow citizens and neighbors
58,500 armed sharp shooting American Hunters (sic) in just one county alone that would stand up for the Rule of Law and the Constitution
the Sheriffs have a plan to deputize half to three quarters of every county (really!)
prolly (sic) 55 to 60 counties in one state alone. Go figure.(sic)
will you not have a beholding feeling (sic) towards that officer?
"Have a good day sir, and you might fix that rear left taillight too" (sic) were his last words.
It was old school Law Enforcement at is (sic) finest. Down the road the load of wood went, the kind officers card in hand.(sic)
--------------------
Well yee-fucking-haw! Aren't you chock full of Americana? This is the best example of the trite old American trope I have seen in a long time. You just HAVE to be full of "salt of the earth wisdom" and "common sense". The pathos runs deep.
Call me cynical if you want, but this reads like a bad spam chain-letter, wistful ramblings of a sentimentalist, or even worse- Psyops propaganda written for illiterate fools.
Perhaps I am too skeptical, but this fairy tale sits on top of a couple metric tons worth of horse-shit that play into the beliefs of misguided, unempowered people who want to believe the "good ol' Sherrifs" will "save" them.
Concur. Fat frackin chance for that fairy tale. Fat frackin chance. Buy ammo, store food.
I personally only feel threatened by CORPORATE EMPLOYEES WITH BADGES & GUNS that claim to "Serve & Protect" me from violence. All Governments are Corporations. Look them up on Dunn & Bradstreet for fuck sakes! Type in "City of xxx or Country of xxx).
Well Mr & Mrs POLICE OFFICER... you work for a Corporation and you enforce "rules" of that Corporation (Acts, Statutes, Bylaws - rules of Corporations, not LAW) that only EMPLOYEES of said Corporation are required to follow.
Next time you give a cop your DL or any other .gov agent THEIR I.D. cards issued to YOU, you are in fact admitting you are an EMPLOYEE of the .gov Corporation and subject to their Acts, Statutes and Bylaws of YOUR EMPLOYER!!! Here is your fine for $xxx. Have a nice day, slave.
And if you work for them, why aren't you getting paid? Fuck it, I'll leave it at that.
The drooling idiots in America keep watching TV and Hollywood's shit. I told people I know mad about Duck Dynasty and A&E that all of TV is like A&E. If you really are sick of being brainwashed, used and keeping The Matrix alive then keep watching TV and Hollywood's shit.
Wow Freddie, I've only you'd suggested this before!
Only kidding, it's hard not to sound like a broken record sometimes... ask any of my drinking buddies.
well Feddie there are tv shows like Gold fever and prospectors that are pretty right on. They are great motivation for me before I go out gold mining and rockhounding twice a month. Its not all bad.
"They simply don't have the troop strength, logistics, and the terrain is too large and complex."
Top of the morn to ya Sgt.
They have long known that and so, the UN/IMF/bankster plan is to create the multi-national forces to quell those seditious American Patriots. Jack McLamb wrote about how these evil babylonians would downsize and eliminate the American military, while at the same time building up the UN forces to conqor America in his newsletters in the past. Pray for good ol Jack, he is getting close to his time.
Have you read these informative reports?
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/12/17/nukes-on-the-loose/
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/12/18/the-invasion-will-come-from-wit...
http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2013/12/19/watcha-gonna-do-when-they-come-...
Using foreign troops in the US would be a psychological operations, and counter-insurgency nightmare (for them). Counter-insurgency is all about winning hearts and minds of the population. For whatever combat power advantages they would gain in using International STAFOR (Stabilization Forces), they would lose in legitimacy and gains in "enemy" morale and determination. Such a move would galvanize the American people so much that you'd have 80 year old, life-long democrat voting retired librarians picking up rifles to fight off the foreign invaders.
As far as combat capability of other countries, many of them would be considered combat ineffective by US standards. Exceptions being the British, Russian, Israelis, French, and some others that are too small to count.
The missing nukes are a concern, but with the news being leaked about it, there is simply no way they could detonate nukes in the US without immediate, brutal and swift justice being brought down hard on anyone that even has the appearance of being responsible. There would really be all hell to pay for that one. It would be a witch hunt of the likes the world has never seen.
I'm not sure what their next plan is, but it would have to be absolutely brilliant, because people just aren't believing their bullshit anymore. I'm sure their command staff in a bunker somewhere is just pulling their hair out at the current situation as all their brilliant ops eat shit each time. They're simply losing the psychological war.
"Wow, Bill, that UN guy looks great mounted over your fireplace. I can see the hole in the beret!"
"Look at the lifelike eyes!"
"Yeah,they do seem to follow you around. German?"
"Some kind of European. Jim down the street specializes in Chinese trophies."
"I hear he has the record."
"Yep. Sure is a lot easier than getting those big Bucks. These guys make a lot of noise in the woods."
"The problem is, the .gov is losing legitimacy in everyone's eyes, and the tools of violence they have are not sufficient to suppress the people in the US. They simply don't have the troop strength, logistics, and the terrain is too large and complex. If they take it to an openly kinetic operation, those in power WILL lose and WILL face justice. If history is any guide, everyone associated with these .gov sanctioned criminal acts will probably be executed or face the rest of their lives in a jail cell.
They've already lost. Now it's just a matter of how bad they're going to make it for themselves, and how many people they are going to murder in their fall."
Now THAT is an outcome I am in favor of working towards! Our numbers are increasing against the outright corruption and those who foster it.
Like I have said before, track these people anywhere and everywhere they go and give them no rest until they are made to pay for their abuses! Pay off their security people to TAKE THEM OUT!
Yes, it would appear the current crop has no legitimacy at all.
Pretty bad, huh?
".. it is much more effective for the NSA to spy on domestic civilian population as the downside risk is limited."
not quite. Its why capital is worthless in the USA and there'll be no jobs here consequent. Cronyism-which just means "no rule of law" and the fact that the NSA thinks they can just help themselves to intellectual property and auction off their findings mean that the new minds and new ideas necessary to pull society forward don't materialize
I guess pretty soon, all that will be left is the nsa, so everyone will be employed spying on each other.
All jobs will be nsa, so we will have to import everything, I hope Maduro fixes that TP problem, maybe he will spare a few rolls.
If you like your data you and the NSA can keep your data.
If only the NSA would be honest about having our data! We wouldn't have to do all those tedious backups of our computers anymore. We could just ask the NSA to download our files back to us. And while I'm off on some flight of fantasy (even the TSA can't accost me on those!) why can't they provide the same types of services as pay-for-cyber-protection companies do? If they're so good, the account information stolen via Target should be no problem whatsoever! We the People should derive some benefit from all the dollars we pour into the NSA.
They intentionally de-industrialized the US. Now, what's left, the high tech part, is basically done moving forward. Why would you use US software, or US hardware for anything? They are busy trying to kill the goose, but we will have a robust financial service sector to carry the economy forward. Pure fucking genius. I could not have thought of a more clever way to destroy our high tech industry if I had 100 lifetimes to think on the problem set. Pure fucking genius. I'm done venting, and to tell you the truth, I do feel safer in the "Homeland" from all these threats they are protecting me from. Pure fucking genius.
I hope all of these companies die including FaceBook, Apple, Microshaft, Oracle, Google, AT&T, IBM (real scum) and all the rest. They all spy for Uncle Al Sam EL Muslim from Kenya. F them ALL.
I hope the Russians, eastern Europeans, Australians, NZ'ers and others come up with companies to destroy all this SCUM. They should have a No Spy label on all their products and web sites.
Why does Brazil need Boeing, when they make excellent aircraft themselves?
The only Embraer I've flown is the 110, and I don't think Brazil needs Boeing or Airbus, and don't think for a minute these two companies don't control every western defense contract.
Civilian aircraft aside, I think they understand the specs they are looking for. I say build your own fighter Brazil.
So why is this such a shock?
MIC loves their boy Obama and his police state.
Boeing will probably sue the US Government for $5 billion citing the Government spying policy cost them this contract.
Boeing will probably sue the US Government for $5 billion citing the Government spying policy cost them this contract.
Yeah, and BA will somehow charge its losses to the taxpayer. Screwed twice, first by the NSA and then by the NSA.
Crypto!
The bounty on Whistleblower Snowden is gonna be astronomical!
Governmentis not the solution. Government IS the priblem. Ronald Reagan
This is why the NSA needs to rewrite the first amendment. Stories like this could affect the morale of the nation and support for the brave men of the NSA (and their budget).
But you must understand how this will play.
NSA will never be blamed for this lost contract (and lost jobs to Boeing).
No. Edward Snowden will be blamed.
Good point. BTW. Make more pizza, less fighter jets.
Amen to that!
Does al Qaeda have problems with whistleblowers? Curious, no....
I credit Snowden for this.
Edward Snowden for President
The first amendment starts with the word "Congress". See? It only applies to acts of the national legislature, not to judicial or executive branch agencies.
How do translate HaHaHaHa to portuguese?
Snowden for Person of the Year!
Lmão
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110523192541AAPSaIZ
Jajajajaja
Pode dizer " Foda-se NSA"
I'll leave it to you to put that through your translator of choice
wait until the Telephone suppliers of servers and such come and tell their stories...they will be losing billions to as no one will buy their back door servers anymore...
"Was that worth 4 billion dollars?" the source asked.
"There is no cost too high if it means protecting the children. So shut up and bend over." - NSA
<Cus if you don't want to protect the children you must be a terrorist.>
edit: No mention by the NSA of the low cost calculation used to 'protect' the Iraqi or Pakistani children.
Cog,
Young brown children in the way of US hegemony aren't really children so much as budding terrorists.
Reminds me of how people lost their shit about bombing a 16 year old US citizen in Africa and how that was just awful. Yet we somehow see him as different and all these others killed are just too bad, so sad.
The last time I read the DOI, I didn't see where they spoke of citizenship, or place of birth in penning this line:
It seems that some truths are more self evident than others?
pods
"We The People" decry the hypocrisy of USA leadership. But what about the hypocrisy of "We The People".
<Oh, wait.......we are all just poor helpless wage slaves, victims really, who can't control our own leadership and........and.......whatever.>
I am now convinced of the superiority of the system. I will quit my job, sign up for welfare, and get a free Obamaphone before the whole enchilada collapses in on itself.
I see that as no more than your duty to your fellow man to be a burden, not an asset. Oh, they'll print money for a time of course, but more and more swiftly it will approach its intrinsic value. For self preservation, like the Roman Empire, they will draw back, first to the homeland, and then they'll finally leave us to our own devices, shinking back until they can only defend DC, and then not even that. It might take a while and they won't go gently, but they will go.
All men created equal
I agree with you, they didn't mention citizenship or place of birth
They were far wiser than those in power today, but then agin, the founders would be considered terrorists or insurgents today as they dared stand up to the system.
We never learn, do we? Too many don't care.
First of all I doubt they were "created" and if equal, it is a stunning biological discovery.
It all depends on how on how one intrepets it, doesn't it?
We are all equally alive, aren't we?
Joining a sperm cell to an egg "creates" an embryo. One cannot ever emerge as a human baby without first having been an embryo that was "created" by the energetic bumping of sperm against an egg.
So, yes - all men (and most women) were "created". But differences in the quality of sperm and egg guarantee that not all embryos are created equal. And, due to differences in intake of required nourishment while pregnant, many humans are already seriously behind the game when they are born.
Pretty thought, that "all men are created equal". But hardly a thing that can be found true in reality.
And, given that it has been demonstrated that we all exists at varying levels of conciousness - no, it cannot be said that we are all equally alive. Some are more alive than others. All are in their own unique state of decay from the moment of birth. We are not all in the same state of being alive. So we are not all "equally" alive.
There is a difference between politics and science. One involves avoiding the detail. The other involves finding it.
What about dark children killed in Chicago as the Latin drug cartels do bidness for Obam, Rahm, Jarrett and the others in the gang? Drugs are the other spice.
The spice must flow...
In other news, Brazil now stands a chance of receiving jets without critical backdoors programmed into every chip and software running on their new jets.
I think they would be swapping one back door for another. If you are not an innovator of technology, you are forever a slave to it.
But what about the back doors programed into the firmware/software/hardware of all those chips from China in US military hardware?
<Payback is a bitch.........bitch.>
Peace-loving Swedes manufacturing military equipment?!
Neutral brother, not peace loving, there's a difference!
No one likes there weapons and guns MORE then the Swiss!!! They just like their money too, and how do you stay rich and independent as a small nation, be well armed and neutral!!
Sweden, not Switzerland, dumbass.
My apologizes, your correct, I mistyped!!!
(I'm not sure the dumbass comment was nessesary, but I do suppose someone perfect like yourself, has never mistyped)
But again, all apologizes!!
Swedes, not Swiss.
Swedes are not "peace-loving"? Really? They seem to abase themselves before Mohammadans quite nicely...it's all hugs & kisses!
Somewhat embarrassingly, peaceful Sweden is the largest arms exporter per capita in the world. (Or was in 2011 - I haven't seen any newer figures.)
No problem.
Give yourself a Nobel Peace Prize and tap on the back.
Well done!
Alfred Nobel invented what again? Pudding? ?
'Figgy Pudding' to be Precise.
The name was changed to C4 by Obama, last year, I read.
They invented a killer piece prize few years ago.
No, he invented Ikea. Oh sorry, that was another peace loving guy.
Swedens Air Forces have been of the highest world class quality for generations during the cold war. Today I do not know if cuts have degraded their quality. But if it was a decade ago, I would stake any Swedish first line fighter aircraft and pilot against any contemperary in the world.
I do have family and friends with military and civilian experience inside the Swedish Air Defense Systems during the 1980-2000's, and I keep up on world military technology. Sweden's fighters are rated with the very best in the world.
I know this sounds odd, but it would not be so if you lived for a time in Sweden. Americans, and I am one, have been lied to by meida propaganda. Most Americans know ZERO about anything to do with Sweden. Except for the blonde girls, that is as far as American propaganda has gone.
Been there, have the t-shirt and the women are way above average.
Explains why the NWO shills browbeat the Swedes to import so much scum from the MENA. The problem with Sweden is that it is full of Swedes, if you can't force 'em out, breed 'em out.
first most Swedish girls are not natural blondes. Second, the Grippen's main systems have mostly been developed in the USA (radar, engine, avionics, ejection seat...). Only Russia, the USA and France can build a world-class fighter plane using indigeneous resources (and France uses a US ejection seat but they could develop one if it would be cost effective). After the commercial failure of the French rafale France will drop from this selected club.
"Only Russia, the USA and France can build a world-class fighter plane using indigeneous resources"
$$$ makes "world class", right?
Not that it matters much, or that I have any axe to grind, but that is extremely closed-minded. You are dripping copious amounts of unfounded and chauvinistic arrogance.
Thought, Physics, Mathematics, and Engineering are universal.
You underestimate and discount the ability of many other human beings like you and I with a silly statement like that.
@Jack
I was an exchange student to Sweden and concur with your analysis of the swedish air force. I would go as far as to say that some SAAB designs , such as the J-32 Drakken, were more advanced than anything in either the US or soviet inventory at the time.
The chef on the Muppet Show was Swedish!
Oh come on, the whole east coast of Sweden is exposed to what was the USSR. Finland used to be part of Russia.
>>>Finland used to be part of Russia.
And before that, part of Sweden.
Corporate/Congress moment of Zen.
Maybe they can meditate on the sound of one general clapper.
Bernake can print this much whist jacking off to naked pics of Mr Jan Yellen..........
10 milliseconds to love.
CiO rule #1 in play here:
A country the size of Brazil must always be ready to protect its citizens, patrimony and sovereignty."
-- and its offshore oil.
We are not slackers Brazil, we will just print 4 billion more to piss you off.
If the spying worked, they should have been able to blackmail Brazillian politicians for the $4 billion.
To much "noise" in Brazilian Portuguese, like all the BS
our tainted ones talk all day. Sat in high level meetings
with talkative Brazilians but important numbers were just scribbled on paper for you to see and not spelled out, despite the offices being claimed soundproof.
This is what happens when a country feels it is in control of the world.
It is a big pedastel to fall from, but it always does, sooner or later.
The NSA and CIA along with the reputation of incarcerating more citizens per capita that any other country makes one wonder why one would want to live there, particularly so when two of the ten most violent cities on this planet are also within its borders. It is a good place not to be.
Lots of American and British parts on the Gripen.
Rejecting the dollar at this point is the only thing that will make Washington notice. The dollar is what keeps the NSA and all those other three letter societies going.
I am not sure whether America has gone too far or whether it is too far gone.
Is it too late for enlightened leadership?