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How To Steal Bitcoins In Three Easy Steps

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Over the past several months, Bitcoins have soared in popularity, acceptance and price. Naturally, it was only a matter of time before Bitcoin crime followed. As reported here previously, earlier this month, the largest heist in the history of Bitcoin was pulled off when the illegal drug bazaar Sheep Marketplace was plundered, either by hackers or insiders, and about $100 million worth of the currency was stolen from customers.

That was only the most recent heist however: the reality is that Bitcoin theft has been around for years. In June of 2011, a user named Allinvain was the victim of what is arguably the first recorded major Bitcoin theft. As The Verge reports, "Allinvain awoke to find that a hacker had stolen about half a million dollars’ worth of bitcoins. “I feel like killing myself now,” he wrote at the time."

Outright robbery is not the only crime plaguing the new digital currency, as more sophisticated thefts have emerged including ponzi schemes:

The supposedly high-return investment fund Bitcoin Savings & Trust turned out to be a pyramid scheme, its owner charged with ripping off investors for $4.5 million in bitcoins. MyBitcoin, a “wallet” service that stored bitcoins like a bank account, disappeared with about $1 million worth of users’ bitcoins. Several of the most trusted and well-known Bitcoin companies, including the Mt. Gox and the now-defunct Bitcoinica exchanges, have also suffered high-profile thefts.

 

Victims of credit card theft can cancel a card or reverse fraudulent transactions, but Bitcoin is attractive to thieves because its transactions are irreversible. “Bitcoin is like cash,” says Nicolas Christin, an assistant research professor at Carnegie Mellon University who has done extensive analysis of Bitcoin. “The only way to get it back is by tracking you down and basically beating you up with a lead pipe.”

So it appears that despite the advent of the digital, hard physical objects - like lead pipes - still rule supreme.

But going back to Bitcoin is, where the vast majority still aren't exactly clear what the fiat currency alternative actually is, it’s difficult to understand exactly how digital theft works. What are you stealing, exactly? And once you’ve got it, what do you do with it?

 

The Verge provides the explanation on how to steal Bitcoins in three easy steps:

 

1. Copying the keys

There is no such thing as a Bitcoin. The virtual currency is nothing more than a public ledger system, called the blockchain, that keeps track of an ever-expanding list of addresses, and how many units of bitcoin are at those addresses.

If you own Bitcoin, what you actually own is the private cryptographic key to unlock a specific address. The private key looks like a long string of numbers and letters. You may choose to store your key, or keys if you have multiple addresses, in a number of places including a paper printout, a metal coin, a hard drive, an online service, or a tattoo on your body.

All methods can be protected with various levels of security, but all methods are vulnerable to theft since the robbery simply depends on gaining access to the string. “I recommend creating physical paper wallets using an Arch Linux boot which has never been online,” says Marak Squires, an early Bitcoin adopter who is developing a secure Bitcoin bank. “Unfortunately, this is not an option for most people. For the average user there are no good options right now to securely store cryptocurrencies.”

The most lucrative attacks are carried out on online services that store the private keys for a large number of users, as Sheep Marketplace did. It seems these attacks are often carried out by insiders who don’t have to do much hacking at all. Just copy the database of private keys and you can gain control of the bitcoins at all those addresses. You, the thief, can now spend those bitcoins whenever you want, as long as the owner doesn’t move them first.

2. Getting away with it

While Bitcoin has some features that make it great for thieves, it also has some features that make it not so great. The fact that the blockchain is public means that anyone can see to which address the coins were transferred next. After the Sheep Marketplace heist, some users tracked the thief as he or she moved the stolen coins from address to address.

This tracking technique isn’t very helpful for the time being, since the thief’s identity is still unknown. However, Bitcoin forensics is getting better and better as programmers figure out new ways to extract information from the blockchain. A thief may leave traces that are undetectable now but could be uncovered in the future, inspiring a retroactive investigation.

That’s why this step, money laundering, is so important. Laundering Bitcoin is done with “mixers,” also called “tumblers,” which randomly crisscross your bitcoins with other users’ bitcoins so that you get a clean address that the blockchain cannot connect with any of the addresses from which the coins were stolen.

Most of the time it works basically like this: you transfer your stolen bitcoins to a new address owned by the Bitcoin tumbler. That address is still “dirty” because there is a clear path from the victim’s address, so the tumbler leaves the coins there. The tumbler makes a note to transfer the same amount of bitcoins from other users to a new “clean” address owned by you. But it doesn’t make the transfer right away. Anyone watching would probably notice if the same exact amount of bitcoins — say, 96.1 — were moved into a new address, so the tumbler has you withdraw your coins over time in smaller amounts. When you request 10 bitcoins, the tumbler will transfer 10 bitcoins to your clean address. Extra-careful tumblers may also split these payouts further, especially if it is a noticeably large number of bitcoins.

Over time, the tumbler will sip bitcoins from the “dirty” addresses in order to replenish the pool. By the time your dirty address gets tapped, you’re long gone. The tumbler is only accessible through the anonymizing Tor network, making it difficult for law enforcement to trace traffic to it or discover the people behind it.

Of course, that also means you have to trust the tumbler. “Caution: Mixing services may themselves be operating with anonymity. As such, if the mixing output fails to be delivered or access to funds is denied there is no recourse. Use at your own discretion,” reads the Bitcoin wiki.

Another option is to launder the money the way the mob might: spend it at Satoshi Dice or another Bitcoin casino.

3. Get rich

Now you’ve got clean bitcoins — hopefully a lot of them! — and you’ve got your eye on a villa in the south of France. Unfortunately, the landlord doesn’t accept Bitcoin. Like most merchants in the world, she wants a government-sanctioned currency, preferably the euro.

So now you’ve got to convert your bitcoins to euros. But you’ve got a lot of bitcoins. If you’re the owner of Sheep Marketplace, you’ve got $100 millions’ worth. The Bitcoin economy is still tiny and relatively illiquid — there aren’t many buyers who could cash you out for that much Bitcoin all in one sale, and a transaction of that size would surely raise alarms. It also becomes much harder to conceal your identity when you exchange Bitcoin for other currencies. Most exchanges require some type of identifying information, and at the very least you need an account into which the euros can be deposited.

It’s time to get creative. There are several ways you can unload a lot of Bitcoin while maintaining your anonymity. Find a rich buyer who is willing to take the bitcoins without verifying your identity in exchange for a discount on the price, for example. However, the best way to protect yourself is to remain patient. Unload your bitcoins in a series of transactions over weeks, ideally months or even years, in order to avoid arousing suspicion from those watching the blockchain as well as real-life authorities that might wonder how you suddenly came into millions of dollars.

Now, enjoy life in France.

 


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Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:07 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

my wallets gone, my wallets gone............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tuDwbDMidM

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:14 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Bitcoin Savings & Trust
All aboard with the Virtual Keating Five

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

I bank at 1st Bitcoin Bank and Trust of Cypress. What could possibly go wrong?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:23 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Anyone who stores their bitcoin at a place called "Sheep Marketplace" deserves what they got coming to them..

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:23 | Link to Comment stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

actually the biggest bitcoin theft / heist was when the fbi stole silk road's bitcoin wallet.

 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

REALITY ALERT!

Stormtroopers are NOT going to be stopped by "virtual" space.  The ONLY way that Bitcoin will find acceptance and be as ubiquitous as those promoting it would like would be for major banking instiututions to accept it (or roll over and die, whichever comes first).  And acceptance = CONTROL.  At this point those who got in early will look to cash in, thereby jettisoning their notions of support based on ideological grounds: sure, it's business.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Oi, fonestar, where's my fucking money?

 

 

*crickets*

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:52 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Oil where's fonestar?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:26 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

The bad thing about fancy money is you gotta watch it like a hawk.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:33 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

I Showed My Beautiful New GIRLfriend My Stash Of 100 BitCoins
And She Said "Go Fuck Yourself Loser" ...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:45 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

So....,

  Splain to me again, how this this is an improvement over gold and silver.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:51 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Gold and silver still function as a local store of value.  But for transmitting payment internationally nothing beats Bitcoin.  Or crossing borders, nothing beats Bitcoin.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:31 | Link to Comment Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Like a digital Smaug.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:16 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Check's in the virtual mail....

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:54 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Maybe virtualization sounds like a bizzare concept to some of you but the truth is that you've already been using this technology for a few years now.  Every time you access a network, a search engine, your email, etc.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

They don't own it, they stole it.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 06:14 | Link to Comment trader1
trader1's picture

it's a matter of perspective.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:22 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

So do people who just click shit in their email.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2082204/crime-pays-very-well-cryptolocker...

Who needs complex schemes, when humans are so easily socially engineered?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:43 | Link to Comment rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

And there's always this.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Well, I lost that much in my boating accident!  And my insurance company, um...

Chalk one up to "user error."  If we could take human out of the equation then I'm sure that things would work a LOT better!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:09 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

Que fonestar babbling......

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:22 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Cue?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:25 | Link to Comment Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

Not to be confused with queefing...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

queue....

enter the fonestar

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:38 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

i Que Lastima !

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:04 | Link to Comment RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Fonestar is out running around with a lead pipe looking for some guy who ripped him off

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:45 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Hopefully when he finds him the said crook won't be armed with an AR-15......cause that's gonna be over with quick.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:40 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

Correct.  Here in Canada we can only have SKS pinned to five rounds.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 15:29 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

My bitcoins were lost in a boating accident.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:05 | Link to Comment Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

"My bitcoins were lost in a virtual boating accident."

Fixed!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

fonestar is here with you and shall not desert you.  Satoshi is the light, the truth and the way.

Caviar dreams and champagne wishes.  I am fonestar.

 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:58 | Link to Comment sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Unpossible!

Fortunately I can use two firewalls for my physical: 12 ga 00 & .45 cal.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:50 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Inconceivable they could make it past the iocane death pits! 

 

Unless they're from Australia of course.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:13 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

One of the issues most are missing, when it comes to BitCoin, is that most people equate money with currency.

Big mistake.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:16 | Link to Comment ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

beating up on bitcoin is about as challenging as shooting fish in a barrel, but I'll take my shot. 

so, whatever happened to that guy who sold the Tesla?  I guess that promotion is gone now, or maybe a Tesla just costs 3 times as many bitcoins.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:36 | Link to Comment Borrow Owl
Borrow Owl's picture

"..so, whatever happened to that guy who sold the Tesla?"

Methinks the lucky bastard managed to cash out before the damned thing set his garage on fire.

 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:25 | Link to Comment Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Same old ignorant attempts at slamming bitcoin.

The Tesla dealership probably converted the BTC immediately to FRN's like most vendors do because of its volatility

Instead of actually learning something about crypto currencies you just keep spewing nonsense

BTC might not work at bringing down the banking cartel but this ZH'er is hoping that it does

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:51 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"Hope is a longing for a future condition over which you have no agency." - Derrick Jenson (and audience)

Godspeed.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:20 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

The only thing that will bring down the banking cartel is to cut their fucking heads off in a public square for all the world to see.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:13 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   I'm going to be reasonable and objective. The argument will surround security of the "blockchain" vs "usury of the medium".

 In other words , BTCers' will argue security, and alternate ideas will argue usability.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:45 | Link to Comment rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

So I can't go to Safeway and buy a gallon of milk with Bitcoin?

#illtakethefizz

 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

    WTF?    Are you really that retarded? When the term "oxymoron" was scripted, your name was the catalyst!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment jballz
jballz's picture

No I heard Safeway is taking Spanish doubloons now.

But only for dairy products.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:01 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Gas stations/convenience stores accepting Bitcoin are popping up all over the place (last week I heard of new locations in Colorado, Utah and New Hampshire).  In 2014, expect retailers accepting Bitcoin to keep increasing at an increasing rate.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:41 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Why?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:37 | Link to Comment TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Because it's the future, dude!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:02 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Right, so there is going to be a race between merchants who will start to accept bitcoin and the millions of poor but very clever hackers who are working on ways to steal your bitcoin 24/7. I'm betting on the hackers.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:17 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

The techniques discussed for concealing the blockchain mobility will be very valuable when you are moving money out of a country that imposes capital controls.  The relevant government won't be able to chase that money.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:38 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 And that applies to Dairy purchases how? Stick with the topic Junior.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:07 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I can see it all now. Little old ladies converting their annuities into bitcoin only to turn over their wallet keys to the nice man who talks to them on the phone or to that email that seemed so real asking them to confirm their bitcoin wallet info.

When little old ladies do that with credit cards, the fraudelent charges are removed from their accounts and they get their money back. When it happens with bitcoin, there is no bank there to bail them out and ..... "It's gone".

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 17:05 | Link to Comment fonestar
fonestar's picture

We are not advocating people who do not understand Bitcoin to go and purchase Bitcoin.  The fact that someone is little, old or female should not discourage them from owning BTC.  The point is that they understand how BTC works and they know to never divulge their private key.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 21:44 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

PSA: never mix Bitcoin and Pacemakers.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 21:09 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Any old lady born a hundred years ago has paid for that banking 'service' by seeing her purchasing power diminish by 97%.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:37 | Link to Comment rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

"The relevant government won't be able to chase that money."

Right, because the government doesn't really have the resources or will to chase that money - click here.

 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:27 | Link to Comment Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:40 | Link to Comment rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

Thank you for your input. Nice to know you have your thesaurus and dictionary handy. Must have touched a nerve.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:27 | Link to Comment stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

you can buy a gyft card with bitcoin and go buy a gallon of milk at whole foods.

dont know about safeway.

 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:04 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@stacking12321

Yes, but pointing out that there are growing channels through which to exercise the spending power of Bitcoin will only infuriate the trolls.

Its all part of the longer term cycle, which is a progression from legacy financial system <--> Bitcoin until there's no longer any reason to "cash out" into colored paper tokens anymore.

But nobody here wants to hear it, because they are completely inured to the current system, ammo and "stacking" notwithstanding.

They keep pointing at the payment services and exchanges like they'll be around forever, beholden to the governments of the world, when the reality is - they are just the economic "shunt" that allows bad money to be converted into good, and then they'll be cast off into the dustbin of history.

 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:00 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

OK, as someone who has actually dealt with code that handles these sorts of things I can attest that the issue lies with the use of clearing agencies.  Just like with PayPal (I was working with stuff that pre-dated PayPal- we'd joke that PayPal was pure amaturish shit, and, well it is/was, ours was a threat to the banks, which is why it got nowhere), it's just a means of exchange.  Bitcoin's advantage lies with its security: I won't attack it for that other than to say that it takes a big leap of faith to attach the banking sector using the very same network that it and it's goons control).

As soon as Safeway gets enough of a demand (perhaps it can be demonstrated that there really are lower transaction fees [which is what the sw that I was working on was also promoting]) I'm sure that they'd find it worthwhile to enable this exchange.  I believe that there's more here at issue, such as being able to determine the true transaction costs (overhead - risk), but I'll leave it at that.

Now, there's an even bigger world than that which Safeway occupies, and therein lies my issue...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 04:40 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Anybody know anything about building fast PCs or Servers with lots of super fast Nvidia (video) cards to do "bitcoing mining"?  I heard something about that and have no idea what they were talking about.  Those video ards are very good at doing calculations.  Is this to try to steal keys?  The person said it was legal????

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:39 | Link to Comment sleigher
sleigher's picture

Video cards were useful for mining because the GPU's.  Now mining rigs have moved on to ASIC's and FPGA's.  Those are much faster and use less electricity.

The video cards are still useful for litecoin though.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:20 | Link to Comment Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Very informative. Thanks

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:30 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Oh God, here we go with the BTC vs Goldbug fight. I'm out. I have my insurance and belief system. I wish you all luck. Let's just agree to disagree. Fonestar, you're up.....

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:38 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Stay tuned in my friend. I'm just waiting for Fone Clown and his cohorts to show up.

  Fully functioning BTC chart        You have to remember Fone Clown was a Napster deviant. Napster tech was purchased out of court for a sizeable sum and Fone Clown wasn't on the rewards list.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:47 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I'm starting the next phase. I'm learning gardening, fixing and stocking. Stack, stock and stick it to da man. Thanks for the chart porn on BTC.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:52 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

How about we clean things up a bit?

"I'm HAPPILY learning gardening, fixing and stocking" ....

OK, subtle attempt to preach- do things because you WANT to do them, not as some guesture against something (other than, perhaps, against "death").

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:07 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Who's presumptiously preaching?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Me.  It's my job!  As an "elder" I feel compelled to warn of snakes and oil and such...

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:19 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I was taught to repect my "elders".  I hope you're younger than me? ;-)

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:11 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Of course I'm happy to learn these trades. We went out and bought some culinary supplies and garden implements today. Compost pile is being drawn together. I'm actually quite excited. I learned to fix my washer the other day, I attempted to save my old coffee maker, but it was done. It was neat to take it apart and see how things go. Life's too short to do things you don't wanna do. Please embrace the kinder, gentler IR. I'm not even battling the BTC crowd. I hope we all unite. We know who the enemy is.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:17 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Yes, we do.  + 1

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:21 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

" I attempted to save my old coffee maker, but it was done."

Good god, you fell for that one too?

I tear things apart to see where they failed, and, if not fixable (I think that coffee pots are the only thing I haven't fixed!) I scavange parts for all kinds of shit.

Felt good about my recent automations to coops.  And of wiring aux lighting circuits on my tractor.  An old diesel pickup truck that I got a year ago I completely resolved a starting issue (fuel-related; got it for a steal because of the starting issues), even having never gotten my hands dirty on a diesel before (though getting dirty on my diesel tractor).

My wife constructed an incubator and hatched out all kinds of stuff.  I feel sorry for all those out there that have anchors for wives: mine absolutely rocks, and as a team we kick ass.

Yeah, all you out there that think I'm some sort of techno-phobe, I've got USB data loggers monitoring shit, various timers and temperature controllers monitoring and managing shit.  Wired several out-buildings.  Have also rehab'd a well: dropped a new pump and wiring; spe'd and installed a water treatment/filtration system.  Even have a weather station set up and logging to the web: sorry, not going to disclose myself to any of the loonies- NSA has to actually work for it.

I wish that you didn't mention "washer...."  I've got to fix a noise that mine is making: bought it used and had to do a bunch of repairs- it's gas/propane.  It's on the back burner (kind of a pun there!) because we mostly air dry our laundry inside the house: wood stove tends to lower the humidity.

"I'm not even battling the BTC crowd. I hope we all unite. We know who the enemy is."

It's not about battling, it's about challenging a "plan."  I would hope that folks don't just jump in and "unite," as this is no more than the same mindset that allowed us to get where we are now: not questioning authority; not properly understanding what the problem is.  It's not enough to place a call-to-arms for "defeating" something and then have no plan for what to do afterwards, and all of this has the same feel: people do shit like this and end up with the likes of Bolsheviks.

The "enemy" is our own ignorance.  And in a more tangible way I'd say it's "time."  And it's the "time" reason why I insist on folks bearing with questions on "plans" when they're asking for/demanding time from people.  Again, I've actually been employed by a company that created software encompassing ALL banking functions, it's not like I'm just popping off (and I really don't like stating all of this because it leaves a trail, I'm doing so because I wish to be recognized as being serious about discussing things of this importance [and those trying to tag me as some old, ignorant fuck can eat lead]).

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:09 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

On another note, this is why I'd like to see 3D printing become more widespread, so you can replace parts that are designed to "wear out" so you go to the store and get another. When you lower the price of getting a replacement part to pennies, it makes a big difference.

Its just that 3D printers right now are just starting, so the initial cost wouldn't make sense unless you went in with a few people to spread out the initial investment.

I also can't wait for affordable 3D Metal Printers, because then you're talking about scanning in a part and archiving it in your personal "part libarary", in addition to the ones that will no doubt be circulating on the open and dark web. Imagine being able to replace an oil pan that got busted when you bottomed out on a nasty speed bump or something.

But there I go again, thinking about how people can gain control over what they want...

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:05 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm starting my {7 year itch}.  You're gifted with that beautiful nurse of a wife.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:39 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Shes to my left. She just told me to go to sleep. I'm resisting. Good memory!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Agree to disagree? Where's the fun in that?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:40 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Yeah, I'm done battling. I stack. It's me. If the BTC thing works, great, but we need to remember we all are trying to preserve wealth. Some go BTC, some stack, some do stawks, some gather land.....know your enemy.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:41 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

I realise that fiat could go to zero pretty much overnight, but who the hell wants to get up in the morning and wonder what the 'value' of its contents are today?

Fiat sucks, but a currency (not money) that can fluctuate as much as BitCoin has recently has to be a concern.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:47 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

All I know is that no-one ever stole gold or dollars.  Only bitcoins.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

People in the main don't steal things that have no real value except for kleptomaniacs. I don't think we have that going on concerning this article.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:44 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Somebody stole my bicycle :(

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:44 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

As someone who once did volunteer work for a not-for-profit bicycle shop (no paid folks of any kind) I'd seen/heard of many cases in which poor folks' bikes were stolen.  It can really suck for some folks.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 21:13 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Indeed. And 'The Bicycle Thieves' is one of the all-time great movies for illustrating just that.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 20:51 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Ha!  I have my dog guarding my Bitcoins!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:58 | Link to Comment Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

I am building an underground vault for my Bitcoin stash!!!  Genius, right?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:01 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Android app and how to for making paper wallets.

http://blockchain.info/wallet/paper-tutorial

Plus unless I am missing something if I encrypted my wallet with a passphrase even if they did get one key they still need the passphrase for access to what is in it.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Here's a paper box to put it in!

http://www.origami-instructions.com/origami-box.html

I'm a fan of Origami!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

Did a little checking and yes even if someone had your public and private key as long as you encrypted it with a password they still need the password to get the coins within. Something doesn't add up with this story here.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

OK, good for you (seriously): I don't wish anyone here to get burned.  But I'm an old fart, and, well, apparently too dumb to take the plunge in which case I'll just wish folks all the best.  I'm still concerned over the notion of scaling on top of a highly managed network that is controlled by folks that don't like to allow non-controlled things to exist...  having a fast car and not being allowed to put it on the street (or even the track!) is how it kind of feels.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:22 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

They Got Dread Pirate Robert's bitcoin wallet and address when they took out the Silk Road and so far as far as I know the FBI has been yet to get access to his actual bitcoins in the wallet. I think it is safe to say they have his private key............

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:31 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

It's neary an impossible situation, to be secure yet be allowed to transact within the world at-large.  On on this later point I'm afraid that the "terrorist" card is going to be played very hard (and I do believe that there are legitimate concerns, I just don't believe that the control freaks are ever going to stop, and one we're all virtual they can shut us off easily).

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:01 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

Terrsts don't need BitCoin - Most of 'em are Gov sponsored.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

I thnk what the author meant was...

 

"“The only way to get it back is by tracking you down and basically beating you up with a virtual ponzi lead pipe.”"

 

After all,  Bitcoins aren't real.       /sarc 

 

I noticed a lot of the grandparents croaking in tonight have changed their tune.

it used to be "BTC is bad because I can't comprehened it."

Now they're croaking, "bitcoin is currency, not money like my rocks."

 

But I understand.  Writing letters and letting the post office deliver them is much more efficient than a secure encrypted email sent anywhere around the world in the blink of an eye. Plus you get to lick a stamp. That's fun tuesday at the home I guess.

 


Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Why don't you just come out and admit that you're STILL living in your grandparents' basement and that your Bitcoin investment is the only way out for you?

BTW - It's the older folks that you are so found of blasting that have anything of real wealth left. And as someone who detests wearing blinders (otherwise I might be stuck in my grandparents' basement) I refuse to get sucked into the latest techo-fad.  I takes a few years after getting out of basements in order for one to have seen how the world really works (all con games).

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:21 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

I see you particularly enjoy spouting your unsolicited thoughts on a public forums.

Grandkids dont visit?  I can see why.

Hows your horse and buggy running?

 

1:700:11,200   BTC:AU:AG

 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364753.0

Winery for sale. Accepting Bitcoins only.    They must be living in their grandparents basement.

 

Are you sure your shiny rocks aren't letting you down?  Maybe diversify and keep up with the times money wise. It could get the grandkids to stop by.    Just when they show up, show them some love. You dont need to spend all your time showering hate at strangers on an internet forum about a topic you know or care nothing for.

Your an awesome person :)  I love you.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Your interpretation, and from your view (in the basement) I can see why you're so angry.

I have plenty of happy days.

BTW - I don't need no one to provie me with the OK to post.  Something that comes when you're no longer sitting in a basement.

BTW2 - I don't have a horse.  They're WAY over-rated: most of the world's work gets done with water buffalo and oxen; but, being that you're stuck in a basement somewhere how the hell would you know about such things? (my "horse and buggy," my "means" have allowed me to travel well, thank you very much).  Oh, the tractor's is running great!  It actually DOES things to help produce shit, you know, things that you can use to feed yourself (less reliant upon the grandparents).

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:52 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

Maybe my vision is myopic.

I made the trade of the century a month back.

From a basement none the less.

9000% in one year.

 

Before my grandparents died, I had to take them in because they relied on social security. Yup they joined me in the basement.

How many are in their position today? Kids are homeless while the old folks sit around dieing in facilities. Fuck you old folks.

I agree theres enormous numbers of young people living with parents/grandparents. Because the old folks let our government run amok for the last 100 years and the old folks bought into a scheme of pass costs onto the kids. FUCK YOU MOST COWARDLY GENERATION!

FUCK YOU generation that created MTV and ignored Ron Paul for 30 years.

FUCK YOU generation margerine is healthier than butter.

 

"i dont need no one"     enough said   you win seer.   lol

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:33 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Yup, you're going to go far with that attitude...

Remember: my dog is not so good about making a distinction between friend and foe, so it might be best if you don't' come around my place looking for food.  When you do finally break out of that basement I highly recommend a good dog for security (most folks who do more talking than doing are given away by their failure to note man's best friend in the mix).

BTW - You might have to battle a LOT of folks to go back in time to get your claims.  It's a LONG list...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:33 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

You're very angry.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:19 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I made the trade of the century a month back. From a basement none the less. 9000% in one year

Okay, but how much money did you invest/risk? $1000? $2000? Great, so you turned your $1000 into $9000 or $90000 or whatever. That's nice but it's not going to change your life. The key to becoming rich through investments is you have to take a large position and hope it works out. The problem with that for you youngsters is that the Millenials don't have any fucking money to invest. You can blame the older generation if you want, for whatever good that will do, but of all the under-30 people I know exactly one of them is putting money away and investing. The rest are living paycheck to paycheck.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:33 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

No horses, but I do own a mule.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:34 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

I'm sorry.  Mine left me.  I re-married :-)

Couldn't resist.  Mules kick ass!  (OK, really, I'll stop!)  Clearly someone here can recognize a horse of value!

My old dentist had a couple of mules.  I'd always likened him to a vet.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:30 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Why you hatin on the ol folks?  Your sarc was lost on me...are you saying bitcoins ARE real? What's next, a definition of reality?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

is math real?

how about web pages?

Your bank account?

How about electricity... is that real?

 

 

"Those who create and issue the money and credit direct the policies of government and hold in their hands the destiny of the people." - Reginald McKenna President of the Midlands Bank of England

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." - Henry Ford

 

 

I know those quotes are real.   I can understand gold and I can understand BTC.

And I understand gold is maniupalted by TPTB towards their ends. I wish that wasn't so.

BTC is not manipulated and is open source. It can be audited by anyone with the know how. It is not centrally controlled. It is scarce, fungible, perfectly divisible, portable especially around capitol controls. 

 

BTC is real and it is money.

Whats reality to you?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:34 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Interesting choice of phraseology:

  "I understand gold is manipulated"

    vs.

  "BTC is not manipulated"

Consider some alternatives: Gold may be falling due to deflation in the West (while being bought in the more liquid East) ... certainly, the East is not buying paper GLD-type derivatives, while the Western vaults are now all but empty. Or, gold may currently (last 2 years) just be retracing from a 12-year cyclical bull market. (For example, where have all the Cash-4-Gold siphons gone? Did they run out of available sellers in the West looking for iCrap spending money?)

Meanwhile, BTC pricing is determined by a handful (2?, 3?) of exchanges and being cornered by a handful of very powerful miners (including possibly the NSA, the investment banks, and the ASIC manufacturers themselves mining with newly produced chips for a period before their often-delayed departure from inventory). The founder himself holds the largest number (the "Rothschild" of the BTC world?) and the FBI may be the second biggest wallet holder.

IMO, BitCoin is a proof-of-concept for a coming global (at least throughout the developed world) crypto-currency that will be fully controlled by the Central Planning Tribe (the KKK).

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@i-dog (Please don't tell me this was inspired by Apple... ergh)

So, you're telling me a decentralized currency with algorithmic controls is going to be used by a centralized "new world order" eh? That's an active imagination you've got there. Is this like saying -

"The RIAA/MPAA created BitTorrent as a honeypot so they could sue the entire world and make enough money to live happily ever after."

Its in the same vein, but sounds rather silly, no? I get where the paranoia is coming from, hell, the Snowden leaks have provided enough tinfoil nightmare fuel for the next few decades, but honestly there is a point where you get down to the bottom of the rabbit hole and realize you were trapped between two mirrors of your own making.

Things may not be as bleak as you suggest, is all.

 

 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:54 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

BTC is a service.

It is not money.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:10 | Link to Comment TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Depends on what the definition of "is" is.  /shit eating grin

 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:07 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

BitCoin is CURRENCY - NOT MONEY, FFS

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Dewey Cheatum Howe
Dewey Cheatum Howe's picture

That electricity that backs them sure is. It took energy to generate said coin since it is essentially a solution to a math problem that was solved doing real work (computationally but could have easily be done in an analog fashion). Work was done and any work has an energy value associated with it. That is real.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Yup, I use eletricity to power stuff on the farm, lots of utility in electricity.  The stuff that it's responsible for (in some case, such as brooders) actually creates real live, physical things!

I once voted down the notion of a local electical utility promoting electric cars.  My reason was because people ought to be assured of being able to use electricity for heating and cooking.  I used the same logic when I rebeled against biofuels.  I suppose people can use precious resources however they wish: I only wish that resources were more properly valued- we seem to take way too much for granted.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:19 | Link to Comment IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I look forward to Amazon emailing my wife and I the steak knives we just purchased. Ageism sucks. You will age too, the question is will you grow up.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:10 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

OK, more seriously... fraud and theft really does need to be addressed.  Nothing is exempt from these things (well, my dog does do a pretty good job while I'm sleeping).

JPMorgan Chase limits Chase debit cards used at Target stores

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jpmorgan-chase-limits-chase-debit-19344476...

Could something like this happen to Bitcoins as well?

Anyone think that we'd ever see this headline:

JPMorgan Chase limits Chase debit cards used at Tiffany stores
Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:12 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 BTC chits get siphoned off on the exchange . I'm talking about store of value vs usability!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:28 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

YC, I've been in the  "business," been there and done that.  All of these conversations are flashbacks to sitting around with other techno-heads talking about how our crypto-currency, mints, wallets and clearing "banks" could effectively make banks obsolete.  Two takeaways: 1) Yes, this is likely a very true possibility; 2) Because we'd be displacing the most powerful institutions in the world the probability of upsetting their apple cart was likely very, very low.

People pushing Bitcoin are still not able to see what the real problems are.  And, I take offense to the notion that it's OK to push something for just a small fraction of the planet (that's basically what fonestar said, though he was suggesting in the context of change- I, however, see it as never being encompassing because I've seen what most of the rest of the world looks like, and in no way is technology going to scale).

Yeah, I detest the lies and fraud with the current fiat.  I also KNOW that that which cannot go on forever won't.  Spending a lot of time trying to do battle is, IMO, wasted energy (again, been there and done that).  I applaud people for trying to come up with new systems, but I question that there's been sufficient vetting (of logic!).

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:31 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

   That has got to be one of the most succinct honest posts I've read in my 3 years on Z/H!

 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:26 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Seer

I totally agree that every banking and financial institution will use every "dirty trick" in the books, (and make up some new ones) to fight Bitcoin. Its already started, and it has been anticipated to occur.

I'll also not make light of the scaling as you've said, but those are technical challenges that I think can be reasonably addressed, and any advance in computing and communication can help to solve this as time progresses. It isn't so much that it won't scale, its how to achieve that without compromising decentralization as the network grows orders of magnitude larger. This is being worked on, and some solutions have been implemented which will be proven out as we progress.

Where you see limited applications, I see the smaller inroads that Bitcoin is making, especially in the simple act of sending money over large distances. This is making itself known in countries that are specifically preventing citizens from protecting their wealth by forcing them to use a depreciating currency.

So we disagree on the scaling and application, but I do see a future for Bitcoin and whatever it ends up being, just because the core ideas are so fundamental - essentially financial freedom for everyone on the planet.

 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:11 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Seer , Seek< It's all "ball bearings" these days.   

    Ref; DoChen

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:34 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

seek mentioned the other day that he believes BTC has been manipulated after all, which he had NOT thought previously.

I will be looking to spend the rest of my BTC on gold or http://www.gyft.com/ gift cards.

BTC is a currency and NOT a store of value, at least for now.

But, I will keep watching, as the whole thing is very interesting.

***

"It's all ball bearings these days"  Truer words were never spoken!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:19 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

One more time.

The value of this stuff is its portability when a country imposes capital controls.  There is nothing else that can escape the search at the airport.

Visualize Argentina of the early 2000s and how those people would have loved this stuff.  They could just get on a plane and their money would be waiting for them when they landed.  As it was in reality, the government would let them on a plane, but could take nothing with them -- and wished them luck surviving somewhere else with nothing.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:32 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

I agree.  And I have also stated that Reagan and North would have loved Bitcoin.

And while there have been instances of "escaping" in the past I'm kind of thinking that this time it might be a bit uglier- it's going to be a global crack-up.  If you can blend in where you'd be heading then fine, otherwise don't count on being accepted after the fact- is one's life worth finding this out over that of a "handful" of "wealth?"

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:42 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

That presumes capital controls in the US are somehow the last event in the global crackup.  Suppose they're more near the first?

The Jews in Germany in the late 1930s were beaten up and stabbed all to get the number of their Swiss bank accts.  Of course the Jews would deny having such a thing.  Then SS folks went to Switzerland and asked to **deposit** money in the account of such and such a name.  The clerk who accepted the money was telling them such accounts existed and the beatings would then intensify.

If those Jews could have just gotten to Switzerland, they could have had lives.  As it was, the numbers were revealed and the Nazis requested the funds be repatriated to Germany in written documents that the Jew was forced to sign.

The Swiss knew what was happening and were in a very tough situation.  Many sent the money.  Bottom line, the Jews waited too long to leave.  If you have bitcoins, you will be less reluctant to leave.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:50 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

I think that we're counting way too much on possible future scenarios to proclaim any correct position here.

"If you have bitcoins, you will be less reluctant to leave."

Based on what?

Further, this is all sounding very little different than the crooks how have looted and ran already.  You really think that the hordes of poor folks which one would eventually encounter along the way of "escape" will be able to tell the difference?

I'm staying and "fighting."  As I was part of all of this I feel compelled to deal with the consequences: unlike the fuckers who have looted and offshored.

Whatever, I've got a pretty defensible position, so my choice suits me, and not everyone can be afforded the same.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:17 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

Just a question.

In a global crack-up, WHERE does anyone not part of the elites escape to?

Not a lot of options out there.

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 23:58 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

and what if comms are cut as an early step to stop outflow if bitcoin & other purchases using various currencies delivered to your new destination, before you get there, before the money is there?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:26 | Link to Comment laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

step 1.  work for fbi / us dept of "justice"

step 2.  falsely accuse largest owner of bit coins with a crime like drugs, child porn or, if all else fails, something vague lke tax evasion or mail fraud with collusion by state corporate media who bias reort and give the victim a colorful crime boss name to further bias the public and juror pool against the victim

step 3. claim victim is a flight risk to justify incarceration in a living hell prison from a friendly judge / former prosecutor and seize the victim's assets, making it impossible for victim to mount a defense, then coerce a false confession as part of a plea bargain to miimize time in said living hell and keep the bitcoin spoils.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Keep in mind that "step 2" could very well be commissioned by the very institutions most placed at risk: banking sector; I think that they've done these kinds of things before...

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

I guess all the BTC bashing on Zero Hedge means this Ponzi scam is going to zero. And gold is going to skyrocket. And stocks will crash. And the Chinese will rule the world. And the Jews are going to get pushed into the ocean.

This place has gone from being cutting edge edgy to tedious in about fourteen months.

You guys need to start trying again.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:36 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

So, you're going to pound the ground and whine about something because folks don't agree with you?

As to the "reasons" you mention, that's your read, can't say it's mine.  But again, since I don't slurp up just anything I'm not elegible to engage in a meaningful discussion about what I see are potential risks with Bitcoin.  Yeah, I'm just an old geezer: never the fuck mind that I'm likely better off than a LOT of people, that I've actually been employed with an entity that was long ago doing the EXACT same thing that we're talking about here.  Yeah, I'm just full of shit, my "opinion" is meaningless and I'm just out to push the agenda of the NWO...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:30 | Link to Comment Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

I am not sure what you are talking about.

All I am saying is that ZH has become the shampoo of the Internet. Lately they simply toss up the same stories like some old bastard sitting in the park tossing cyanide laced bread to the pigeons. Then the same idiot arguments are made over and over. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Is it the time of year? Or is there nothing new under the sun?

And the folks get all emotional.

If my bitcoin profits were an individual annual income it would be too big to qualify for welfare. I don't care if it falls to zero tomorrow. Only an idiot pass this up.

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 23:47 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

if what you say is true it's at sub$100 per btc. At this point only an idiot would be a bag-holder. As soon as a majority of bag-holders sign up it will go to sub200 and perhaps even zero.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:29 | Link to Comment logicalman
logicalman's picture

Ah, Fuck it.

I'll be dead one day and none of this will matter.

You come into the world with nothing and you leave with twice as much.

Enjoy the ride.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:48 | Link to Comment the question
the question's picture

Truth ^. In the end, that is what it all boils down to my friend.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:29 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  BTC in the vault is basically untouchable.

 Once BTC leaves the blockchain, which I've personally been tracking transaction size.date.gps. gives me a reasonable idea of asset direction. I'm putting together a chart of btc flows vs times and f/x flows.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:39 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

And the value is in the entertainment?

You know, I really hate sitting around and taking inventories of shit.  I know it needs to be done for my business, but I still don't like it (as it generally detracts from real work, not to mention results in finding errors here and there which need further analysis).

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm trading through the holidays. I've gobs of time to track the BTC blockchain, and "public transactions" side of the list.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:49 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

Cheers!  Keeps one away from being exposed to the real nonsense out there! :-)

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:56 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Ain't that the truth? 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:56 | Link to Comment MSO
MSO's picture

I've invested $480 in bitcoin mining equipment (2 video cards, 1 asic miner) since March of this year. To date, I've purchased 0.4 oz of gold and 5 oz of silver with mined bitcoins and I still mine roughly 0.1 bitcoin per month.  One of the video cards is no longer in service; the other is used in a computer that is on 24/7 for other reasons so it continues to mine.  The asic miner draws 30 watts of power and the Raspberry Pi that runs it also draws roughly 30 watts. The 0.1 bitcoins per month easily pays for the power for both my computer and my asic miner plus money left over for gold and silver.

There's no chance that I'll get rich, but I'd be pretty stupid not to take advantage of this.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 04:36 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'm not convinced by your numbers (cost and Wattage), but if we assume/pretend they are real and accurate, then it's a bit of extra change.

Don't forget that the difficulty increases geometrically, but the capability of the HW does not. The ROI stats probably are a fool's game for anyone but a crime syndicate that operates by a different set of capital levels and laundry costs.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:09 | Link to Comment sleigher
sleigher's picture

3200 KHash/sec = 1 LTC perday.  At current value that is roughly .03 BTC.  .03 BTC will get 1 ounce silver on goldsilverbitcoin.com.  If btc value goes up from ~650 where it is, it gets even easier...

 

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 22:36 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

hey, take it while you can get it. I'm not willing to waste precious metals & electrical power on systems that will be obsolete very soon, have no alternate purpose & not make me rich, not worth my time. But it is fine if you're already in & it's paying its bills. As soon as it can't I think you'll turn it off in time to have no loss plus you now have actual metals in hand as a result so hey - gold bitchez - you win.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:57 | Link to Comment Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

"beating you up with a lead pipe"?  So, cruel!  Don't they know lead is poisonous?  Use a steel pipe instead, please.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:00 | Link to Comment Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

I heard it is easier to hack Target.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:53 | Link to Comment sleigher
sleigher's picture

Target takes Bitcoin?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:11 | Link to Comment indio007
indio007's picture

When Allinvain was asked to produced the BTC wallet address that was robbed, he wouldn't or couldn't. His identity was tracked and it turns iut he ran an egold site on which he would disparage BTC.

 

just FYI.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@indio007

Correct, he couldn't produce a signed message using his private key, which telegraphed to everyone that he made it up, and used an address he knew had been emptied to make up his sob story.

Just another in a long line of con-artists trying to chase the wealth.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!