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What Do Americans Believe In? (Spoiler Alert: "Evolution" And "Ghosts" Are Neck And Neck)

Tyler Durden's picture


Perhaps it is because the prevalent theme of the past five years has been the ascent of central planning in the name of the Bernanke wealth effect, headed by Saint Ben himself, that has forced Americans to reassess, and moderate, their belief in "conventional" topics such as god, miracles and heaven. According to a new Harris Poll while a strong majority (74%) of U.S. adults do believe in God, this belief is in decline when compared to previous years as just over four in five (82%) expressed a belief in God in 2005, 2007 and 2009.

Also, while majorities also believe in miracles (72%, down from 79% in 2005), heaven (68%, down from 75%), that Jesus is God or the Son of God (68%, down from 72%), the resurrection of Jesus Christ (65%, down from 70%), the survival of the soul after death (64%, down from 69%), the devil, hell (both at 58%, down from 62%) and the Virgin birth (57%, down from 60%), these are all down from previous Harris Polls. Belief in Darwin's theory of evolution, however, while well below levels recorded for belief in God, miracles and heaven, is up in comparison to 2005 findings (47%, up from 42%).

There is good news: the ascent of the mandarin of Marriner Eccles to the pinnacle of Keynesian socio-economic "religion" has also to increased the number of people who believe in Darwin's theory of evolution.... to just under half of all Americans. While well below levels recorded for belief in God, miracles and heaven, is up in comparison to 2005 findings (47%, up from 42%). The bad news is that nearly the same amount of Americans who believe in evolution also believe in ghosts: according to the Harris poll 42% of Americans believe in ghosts, 36% each believe in creationism and UFOs, 29% believe in astrology, 26% believe in witches and 24% believe in reincarnation - that they were once another person.

In summary, this is what Americans believe in:


The list above broken down by generation and political affiliation:


How certain are Americans in the existence of god:


What is the gender of god:


The Bible, the Torah, or the Koran: which book captures the word of god.


Finally, how religious do Americans see themselves as:


Some additional color from Harris:

Generational & political divides

Echo Boomers are less likely than their counterparts in all older generations to express belief in God (64% Echo Boomers, 75% Gen Xers, 81% Baby Boomers, 83% Matures), miracles (65%, 74%, 76% and 78%, respectively), that Jesus is God or the Son of God (58%, 67%, 74% and 75%, respectively) and angels (59%, 71%, 73% and 68%, respectively.

On the other end of the generational spectrum, Matures are far less likely than any other generation to express belief in ghosts (44% Echo Boomers, 46% Gen Xers, 46% Baby Boomers, 24% Matures), witches (27%, 29%, 28% and 18%, respectively) and reincarnation (27%, 25%, 23% and 13%, respectively).

Turning to the political spectrum, Democrats and Independents show similar levels of belief in most of the tested concepts, with Republicans consistently more likely than either group to express belief in those concepts aligned with the Judeo-Christian belief system; Republicans are less likely than either group to express belief in Darwin's theory of evolution (36% Republicans, 52% Democrats, 51% Independents).

Absolute certainty that there is a God down vs. 10 years ago

In a separate line of questioning, focused on Americans' degree of certainty that there is or is not a God, two-thirds of Americans (68%) indicate being either absolutely or somewhat certain that there is a God, while 54% specify being absolutely certain; these figures represent drops of 11 and 12 percentage points, respectively, from 2003 testing, where combined certainty was at 79% and absolute certainty was at 66%.

Meanwhile, combined belief that there is no God (16%) and uncertainty as to whether or not there is a God (also 16%) are both up from 2003 findings (when these levels were 9% and 12%, respectively).

Outside of specific religious samples, the groups most likely to be absolutely certain there is a God include blacks (70%), Republicans (65%), Matures (62%) and Baby Boomers (60%), Southerners (61%) and Midwesterners (58%), and those with a high school education or less (60%).


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Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:46 | 4267408 flacon
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Americans believe it will never happen to them:

(57 seconds)

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:54 | 4267418 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

They also believes their guns keep them safe... Morons.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:08 | 4267435 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

A gun is a device.  A tool.  Built for a specific purpose.  No different than a hammer, a car or a computer.  When used for the proper purpose by someone skilled in it's application, it can be very effective.  When wielded by stupidity or ignorance to do a task for which it was not designed..... well.... if you give a monkey a computer and he might just write Shakespeare..... but probably not.

There are a small handfull of times in my life a gun has kept me safe.  Right tool for the right job at the right time.  Without that tool at that time... who knows?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:28 | 4267644 BKbroiler
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Jesus this is depressing. You all deserve what's coming.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:35 | 4267654 Fukushima Sam
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We live in a simulation, probably just one simulation nested in an infinite chain of simulations.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:47 | 4267684 SafelyGraze
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I believe in the purchasing power of a debt instrument

a swap vehicle

a tranche of a pool of obligations

a resolution mechanism

forward guidance

full faith and credit

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:23 | 4267741 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

I believe our universe is a group of molecules in a beer cooler in some random persons garage.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:41 | 4267769 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
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They should have asked is the earth 6000 yrs old as per bible.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:51 | 4267789 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Living in a haunted apartment for a year will put you in the 46% that believe in ghost

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:01 | 4267885 Demonoid
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Seeing is believing.

I've seen six times. Count me in the 46%.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:56 | 4267943 Tall Tom
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My next door neighbors were very young renters. And I was helping to raise some youngsters at the time. Well the gal next door also had young siblings whom would visit frequently. Thus "my kids" and the gal's young sisters got to know one another and played.


Then my next door neighbor had a young cousin who had died from the age of thirteen. That was pretty sad. Her younger sisters were over visiting, commiserating the loss of their cousin, which is very understandable. My kids were over next door also. So I knocked on their door and was invited to enter. When I opened their front door the children screamed. (I am not that scary...but...some may disagree...)


So I asked, "What is going on?" The children said, "Emily's ghost is here". I replied, "Yes? And what makes you think that?" They responded, "She just opened Kevin's Bedroom door...and the Clothes Hangers in the closet moved."


I replied, "No. I am really sorry about Emily, but, her ghost is not here darlings, Let me show you what you saw."


I closed Kevin's Bedroom Door without having it completely close and latch. I said, "Now I want you to watch Kevin's door when I come back inside." I walked out and closed the front door. Then I reentered the premises. The Air Pressure from the front door opening was enough to jar open Kevin's Bedroom Door and move those Coat Hangers.


Seeing is believing? Sometimes you need to be able to see more than meets the eye.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 05:12 | 4268035 Angus McHugepenis
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Tom: Good story. Nothing is as it appears to be. Enjoy your holidays if you have them.

Best - Angus

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 06:29 | 4268075 Occident Mortal
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US religious zeal is by design of the administration.

Back in the 1930's the US Ambasidor to Germany was horrified by how the Nazi's had warped Darwinism in order to promote a divisive society.

The Nazi's believed that the Arian race was more evolved than other ethnic groups and were eager to prove this via a global conflict. They embraced Darwinism so much that they were happy to lose the conflict if it meant another race emerged as "the fittest" although they firmly believed that they would emerge under the rules of "survival of the fittest".

They practiced these theories in Botswana prior to bringing them back to Europe.

The US was horrified of the way the Nazi's had hijacked Darwinism and I order to prevent it coming to America, vast resources and tax breaks were diverted the the Christian church.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:49 | 4268126 negative rates
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The only ones who are afraid of ghosts, are the ones who don't believe in them.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:08 | 4268192 TheGunKnows
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That doesn't make any sense. At all.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:42 | 4268356 giggler321
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Ghosts are *real*, more so than their printed money and you're gonna here a lot more from them soon enough

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:04 | 4268507 Deo vindice
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Occidental - the Nazis didn't "warp" Darwinism at all. There are many statements as to how they were putting it into a practical application.

Many people don't even know the full title of Darwin's famous book. For those who don't, it is:

"On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life"

It is historical revisionism to claim the Nazis were merely "warping" Darwinianism. By the way, more than a few famous Americans were in favour of the Nazi experiment.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 15:14 | 4268837 Crash Overide
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Ghosts are an artifact of the construct, it's a part of the computer program we call reality.

Footprints in the hologram...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:19 | 4268103 Tall Tom
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You too. Thanks.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:51 | 4268378 SilverFish
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That was after the fifth of grape Mad Dog 20/20, correct?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:55 | 4268490 Clark Bent
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That happened just like a Scooby Doo episode. Maybe those kids would have been comforted if not for you meddling kids. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 17:20 | 4269166 Demonoid
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Cool story, and it describes the kind of phenomenon that lies behind most "sightings", IMO.

But not all.

I am an objectivist and empiricist, and I had no truck with ghost stories, until the first time an apparition appeared to me. It happened in the Emergency Room, where I was working during grad school. I was part of the code blue team, and I did the CPR on this 40ish woman for a long time during our attempt to resuscitate her. I was able to pump her heart enough that she regained consciousness during compressions, which is extremely rare. She looked terrified, so I soothed and reassured her as best I could in that nightmarish situation. She had no ability to speak, as she was intubated. I will never forget that look in her eyes.

I thought we had a chance, but then she slipped away. Ultimately we had to discontinue the effort. People left the room until it was empty. The family was in the waiting room, and as is customary, I went to clean the instruments and mess up a little, and put a fresh sheet over her, before they came back.

I carried a tray out, returned, and then when I stepped into the room, I suddenly saw her - I don't know, her spirit? - standing next to the body, looking down. As I entered, she (the spirit) turned her head and looked at me, then a soft smile appeared. She nodded. I felt instantly that she was at peace, and was trying to put me there as well. Her figure was...majestic, stoic, and at ease. Then she looked away, and I did too, to see what she was looking at - and when I turned back, she was gone.

That was the first time.

I have since had, for example, a visitor come into my bedroom, wearing a 19th century nightshirt and carrying a candle, and peacefully try to get into my bed. (I live in a building built in the 1890s). Four other equally visual, distinct, and mysterious encounters as well. This has happened over the past twentyfive years. In every case, there has been no fright or evil, only good or mysterious feelings.

As Lord Dunsany said, "A man is a very small thing, and the night is large and full of wonders."

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:30 | 4267913 Harbanger
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Maybe you have mice or friendly neighbors.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:40 | 4268295 snodgrass
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It's probably just bad plumbing.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 00:39 | 4270023 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Living in a haunted apartment for a year will put you in the 46% that believe in ghost"

yeah. I am sure the neighbors have nothing to do with the voices or noises that you think are ghosts. The Only ghost that exists is the ones you created for yourself!



Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:20 | 4268113 Raging Debate
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Fukushima Sam - Your a deep thinker aren't you? I agree, I call them deviations. Science is confident on the big bang and the initial energy for our universe being stored in a size of an orange but where did that come from? The stronger theories of source in physics point to a 4th dimension no bigger than a planck length in diameter of far, far denser matter than the big bang orange but it isnt time itself as once thought just a couple decades ago.

The book The Black Hole Wars between Leonard Susskind and Stephen Hawking (great read and written for laymen's also) was really about if information was retained in energy (Im generalizing) and Susskind proved it did. Hawking admitted defeat to Susskind which believes our universe is a holograph shaped/projected simulation like you and I Fukishima Sam. I just add the term deviation or distortion and a tad more theory based on my own study of physics and some interesting experiements with quantum tunneling through ionization.

Past lives may indeed be possible when considered in this context of energy retaining information or like Carl Sagan said we are part of a universe experiencing itself.

I do believe in evolution, the evidence is empirical and observable in a lab and the natural world. Einstein was a Pandeist like Sagan, I suppose I am also.

But I do believe in a relationship with the creator which can show you the bigger picture if one wishes and asks. In my belief " death" is transformation and a near irrelevant concept in the bigger picture.

I still go to church on occasion with my girlfriend, but the religion deviates some from what is actually written by biblical authors who asked similar questions of existence to the creator and documented the result.

I did see someone comment about christians, the wrong 6000 year belief of creation, etc. The bible itself never states this at ALL. Moses in Genesis receives a revelation of the exact general appearance of species as they appeared in evolution from fish to mammals. The debate between origins between followers of Darwin (who himself believed in a creator) and Christians seems relatively new. That belief of 6000 years comes more from the prophet Daniel that calculated Israel would rise again as a nation in 1947. Yes, you can take a calculator from the scripture and do the math. Daniel said a day for God is as a thousand years for man of simply, Daniel perceived time can be distorted or accelerated. Science has used hard experiments, thought experiements, mathematics and observations of fast moving objects in space and proved time is distorted based on motion. Daniel to me is probably the most fascinating biblical writer to me outside of Christ. Moses stated creation happened in six time periods which in Jewish religion also can reffered to as dimensions.

Moses also described what looks like genetic tampering or engineering in Genesis of our species. In any event I suppose I remain a Christian as the beliefs of how to live and treat others make a better planet (when actually read and followed). But as for origin, the bible does have pertinant detail that closely matches science, I just do not approve of the "end all be all" sentiment of religions and condemnation of one another.

Here's a deep thought: Our entire existence here or more advanced dimensions may be one giant learning process to enter an entirely new paradigm of existence and if that is true we may or may not retain information in energy in that paradigm meaning perhaps no rememberence.

Maybe not remembering so we collectively dont go mad of boredom is the goal? Perhaps that already happened or perhaps it was just one small or one giant deviation and it is all relative. Does it all matter?

"Meaning" of existence may be irrelevant and it just "IS".

That after all is the answer the question "To be or not to be". You think so therefore you ARE. So I prefer the word deviation to simulation in any event as I believe we repeat existence in a near endless circle of time but each passing forward has slight deviation caused by the effects of radiation (and other things).

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:50 | 4268175 Bangin7GramRocks
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So much wasted brain power debating that silly book and all the silly god myths. We could have a cure for all disease and a replacement for fossil fuels if you all would stop worshipping this bullshit!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:13 | 4268197 SWRichmond
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Religion is the opiate of the masses.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:10 | 4268267 Tall Tom
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Quoting Karl Marx on Zerohedge? That takes balls YOU FUCKING SOCIALIST FROM HELL.



Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:54 | 4268478 bunzbunzbunz
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Yeah, I hate it when people I generally disagree with say things that make sense. Because then I have to ignore their logic and blindly disagree with it. You certainly cannot go around using thought and rationality; ideologies need to be embraced for all they're worth!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:24 | 4268207 Keyser
Keyser's picture

These myths and legends have been perpetuated over several millennium as a form of control over the populace and to produce wealth and power for those controlling the message. The drop in the numbers of believers is indicative of the growth in globalization and instant access to information. TPTB are losing their power as the people awaken to the fact that they have been lied to for centuries for the sake of power, both religious and political. 


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:36 | 4268293 mofreedom
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God gave us the free will to cure all disease, et all.

Man took it all away.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:07 | 4268513 Clark Bent
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None are so blind as those who will not see. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 21:16 | 4269621 FreedomGuy
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And rejecting it all takes more brain power or less brain power?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 17:45 | 4269206 Exponere Mendaces
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Religion is just another endless chain-letter-esque system of control. Each iteration is refined and changed by those who have certain agendas, edited and shaped to fit the society of the day (or the one particularly desired).

Take the Christian ideal of "turning the other cheek", where you forgive someone doing harm to you. Its custom-made for psychopaths to take advantage of. In the USA, they do this all the time, knowing that after every transgression you'll be the "better person" and let them get away with it. And that goes for corporate and political misdeeds.

That's why there won't be an uprising, because of all these people who think they have to align themselves to this ideal - which is really a protection clause for all the greedy bastards who have zero conscience and the psychopathic tendencies to do whatever they'd like.

Now, if there was a Christian ideal of revenge, you'd have plenty of scared bastards not willing to try the shit that they do now - fearing the wrath of those being wronged.

And that's the crux of it. You have an entire nation that believes a story that has been handed down and altered in a multi-kilo-century game of "telephone", riddled with personal agendas and the like, which has done nothing but cause those being persecuted to sit there and just "take it".

Sounds like the perfect tool to make someone willing to be abused, and granting the intangible "wealth" of being religious.


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 19:55 | 4269467 XitSam
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Are you saying that Muslims (only?) get respect because they are willing to cut people's heads off?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 21:41 | 4269655 FreedomGuy
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What I enjoy about most (not all) atheists is the first intellectual move is to assume the superior. There is no real inguiry or reasoning. You start with a complete prima facia rejection of all religion. Then you work backwards to make it what you want and what you want is never good as an atheist. So, religion of any sort is an opiate, a control mechanism, superstitions superceded by science, etc. You also don't need to debate or even consider arguments from your opponents. They are automatically stupid or brainwashed before word one is uttered, so you may use the dismissive form in any argument. Anyone who peddles relgion of any sort is a drug dealer, brainwasher, primitive.

This allows what we have seen too often in the real world. It allow the transfer of ultimate power to the atheistic state and the persecution of not only all religions except the religion of State. You need not debate. You need only force.

See, Exponere equates all religions. He differentiates none. They are all the same even though he actually does not understand any of them. He works backwards to make religion...all religions regardless of difference to be what he wants them to be. This is kind of fun and it is actually a form of self flattery. It actually feeds the darker side of ego which most advanced religions actually teach against. This is where much of the nonviolence EM doesn't understand comes from.

If relgion sets us up for control why is it the functional atheists of the last centuries were the worst mass enslaver and murders of all time? Freed from the vices and brainwashing of religion would they not do one of two things? A. Free others and set whole countries free or B. Keep religion going even stronger to cement their control?  They do neither. In fact, every one of them makes themselves a living god demanding complete obedience and virtual worship. Who builds more statues of themselves, the Pope, the Dali Lama or Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Saddam, etc.? Yup, the freed atheist minds. What goes wrong?

Rejecting all relgions is as shallow as rejecting all economic theories whether Smith, Hayek, Friedman, Keynes or your favorite mercantilist and then saying you are above economics.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 02:37 | 4270154 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Scence is confident on the big bang and the initial energy for our universe being stored in a size of an orange but where did that come from? The stronger theories of source in physics point to a 4th dimension no bigger than a planck length in diameter of far, far denser matter than the big bang orange but it isnt time itself as once thought just a couple decades ago...But I do believe in a relationship with the creator which can show you the bigger picture "

1. Don't You see the circular  reasoning? If A creater created the universe, who or how did this creator get created? Its illogical to believe a a omnipotent god/creator since that entity had to originate from something. At some instance the creator had be created from something and and had to evolve into a very complex structure capable of creation. In the case of our universe which has as more galaxies as all the grains of sand on the entire earth, and each of these galaxies has billions of stars, Its inconceivable that any entity could create all this matter and energy. It too vast and complex for a single entity to create it. Why create such a vast space and so much stuff? Why would a creator create us? do we serve some exotic purpose in the unverse? Where we created for entertainment? If they are omnipontent, why wait billions of years for humans to evolve. Why so long for to let multicell life to form (about 2.4 Billion years). Why not just skip 3+ billion years. Why put dangerous items on the planet, like uranium that could be exploited by humans to destroy the environment and destroy perhaps tha past 100+ Million years of evolution? Why allow a 6+ mile diameter meter to crash and wipe out every surface dwelling species on the planet. Such a dramatic and abrupt change! Was the death of a tens of billions of creatures living on the planet  65 million years ago, apart of the grand plan?

2. The Big Bang Theory is probably wrong. There is the gravity paradox that makes the theory of the Big Bang impossible. At the monent that gravity became a force, the universe would have collapse on itself to form a singularity (black hole). If the entire mass of the universe was the size on an orange, or even the size of our solar system, gravity would have forced it to collapse on itself. As the entire early universe would have been inside of the schwarzschild radius. Theorists use essentially magic to overcome this paradox. The only evidence for a big bang that the observable universe is expanding and the cosmic background radiation, and therefore must have been caused by a Big Bang! Humanity has been mis-understanding physics for thousands of years, and its very probable that that we still got it very wrong.

"but the religion deviates some from what is actually written by biblical authors"

Of course, because its fiction. Christanity is a mere 2000 years old. There have been many religions of the past that were abandoned in favor or other religious that grew popular. Many of the texts in the Bible have stories that orignated from these earlier religious (Eygptian, and Mesopotamia). The stories about the Great Flood, Moses, etc all originated from these early religions. Moses story is nearly identical to the story of Horus which originate fro even early religions. The issue with religous texts is that they have been revised thousands of times. Some texts are completely lost or dropped because they either didn't make any sense or fit the political or philosophical views of the editors or scribers. The Dead sea scrolls are an example as Jewish scholars have been able to identify lost texts that are not present in any other religions copies of the old testament.

 If you read some of the early texts genesis for instances there are names that are mentions once or twice but provide no context about these persons or characters in the story. They texts about them have been deleted because they scribers didn't want them included, but didn't edit out their references in other texts. You can't believe anything in the Bible as all of the texts were written by scribes. All of the texts have been translated across multiple languages and periods. Its inconceivable that humans would be able to transcript all of the texts verbatium. So even if their was an original set of text handed down from God, they are not exact copies. Humans always have been injecting their own politican and philosophical since the beginning of writting. Just pick up any two history books written by different authors covering the same topic and you'll see what I mean. Each book will describe an event that is slanted to the authors political view.

"Our entire existence here or more advanced dimensions may be one giant learning process to enter an entirely new paradigm of existence"

Well everyone knows the world was created as a giant supercomputer to answer the age old question: What is the answer to life the universe and everything? The answer is simple: 42! (Reference to Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy)

Einstein once said "Everything Should Be Made as Simple as Possible, But Not Simpler" I think most of the theories proposed are unrealistic as the attempt to inject complex solutions to explain paradoxes between the theories and the observable data. At this point we lack enough data to really explain how the universe works and how it was created. Its quite possible the answers about the origins of the universe are obscured because the mass of the milky way galaxy prevents us from observing key information. Exotic theories about Brane cosmology, are probably hogwash, because they try to use very complex theories in a poor attempt to fix bad theories with the observable data, and its impossible to create any tests to prove or disprove these complex threories.

FWIW: its highly improbable that there is an afterlife, except for the microbes that feed on our decaying bodies after we die. Even if there was an afterlife, do you really want to exist forever? Perhaps, just as an entity with no physical access to the rest of the universe. To me that would be hell. I would be stuck forever existing as a mind unable to interact with the real world for eternity. Best to make of use our lives as best we can without causing any long lasting harm to our world. If given the option: Life for eternity or seek oblivion, I would choose oblivion since I have no need to live forever.

Heaven was created as a means to get people to do things that they ordinarily would do. Few people would be willing to die for a cause if they knew there was no afterlife. Heaven was created by religous and political powers to get people to sacific themselves, by convincing them, that when the die they will be rewarded in the afterlive. How convenient! Notice that you never see religous leaders or kings sacific themselves for the people, but are always willing to sacific their subjects for thier own benefit. For some reason, People need to cling on to the believe of continuinity, which makes them subjectable to manipulation. Virtally all religions are based around an after-life, or a hell, which is used as a basis for control and manipulation.


 "I believe we repeat existence in a near endless circle of time but each passing forward has slight deviation caused by the effects of radiation"

Unlikely and pointless to speculation. I think you're watching too much Futurama! (




Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:11 | 4268191 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I'm kinda with you and the commenter below. This is not the real reality, the real reality is still in the singularity which contains all the information and which never went away. We are bilocated and co-exist simultaneously in this reality and the singularity. When our physical bodies expire our conscious awareness returns to the hyper-reality in the singularity, which NDEs say feels like coming home and they didn't want to come back to this reality. 


But in the singularity I do think there must be a omnipotent consciousness that created everything and which can control and filter the information. It would be a frightening and overwhelming nightmare without said guidance, because you would not be alone.

Thousands of NDE's accounts consistenlty describe a space-time independent environment that is teaming with life, intelligence, organization, benign hierachy of beings, communication and information transferred at the speed of thought with complete understanding, a hyper-reality and hyper-awareness beyond human physiological senses with, for example, beautiful music beyond human range that can also be seen and felt throughout everything present. Emotion of Love permeates and flows through everything, too, and it always felt, sometimes like a wind, coming from a divine source.

As neurosurgeon Eben Alexander aptly explained his NDE's: "Human description doesn't come close. It's like trying to describe what it was like with only half the letters of the alphabet. We simply don't have the physical senses and experiences to compare it too."



Sun, 12/22/2013 - 21:55 | 4269679 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

For those who care to reason together here are some interesting basics that drive my thinking:

1 We tend to assume the animate comes from the inanimate. Most religions assert the opposite. That which is seen comes from the unseen or mind of God/s.

2. The laws of probability and statistics will not let me rest on the idea that inanimate matter self organizes into greater complexity, function and even purpose with no intelligence. Kidneys are not a random collection of cells. They are an amazing and precise purposeful machine that we cannot duplicate. All parts of a kidney must evolve simultaneously and perfectly to work. There are not ten million failed versions in the fossil record. Every species shows up with everything working quite well. No trial and error. Stonehenge is not a fortunate and unusual pile of rocks. It is an indicator of intelligence. The cardiovascular system is the same.

3. There is a fossil record over a period of some time. Dinosaur bones are not tricks of the devil. We need to account for these.

4. Should we assume all things in the past have worked exactly as they do now, including time itself? I am not sure but I tend to think not or at least hold out alternate theories.

Anyway, this is not a specifically theological site but our theology (including atheist) drives our observation of events much like our ideolgoy, i.e., left versus right. It definitely drives our views of history, governance and society.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:23 | 4268568 Wahooo
Wahooo's picture

Where's "Hope & Change"?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:29 | 4267649 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Lloyd said Goldman was doing god's work. What more proof do these morons need really???

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:23 | 4267905 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

“There is nothing more important than appearing to be religious.” 

Niccolò Machiavelli

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:36 | 4267918 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Yes Lola.  Appearing to be religious is very very important.  Because there is no God, right?  Learn from Machiavelli.e

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:36 | 4268161 Wolfbay
Wolfbay's picture

Americans are exceptional and God is on our side. What's the proof? Piling on more debt and money printing is leading to prosperity.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:56 | 4268258 Chief Kessler
Chief Kessler's picture

Finally U da man!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:26 | 4268156 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Good one. I'm always reminded that God and religion are two different things.


Religion is a man-made interpretive construct doomed to be flawed and exploited by flawed humans for power, control, war, and material gain. Inside every human is a little atheist urging them to do what they know to be wrong using God as an excuse. The Old Testament is poetically and necessarily an epoch long slog drilling home the utter futility and warning of falsely putting one's faith in men who would stand between the people and the creator.  

Machiavelli was Saul Alinsky to the Medici family. Being deceitful and exploiting such things as religion is as old as the pharaohs. Little know fact, Machiavelli was considered Europe's finest playwright, but then William Shakespeare showed up and little Nicky became an instant has been.







Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:10 | 4269706 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I will differ. God is essentially an absolute external truth regardless of what you like to believe. Religion is simply and organized common set of beliefs about that God, including atheism. Change your beliefs and your relgion changes. Churches or organized religions, if you will are what you and other refer to. They establish hierarchies, power, authority and the use of force or at least sanctions within those religions. They can sort of become states within themselves as we witnessed in medieval Europe where a Pope was perhaps as powerful as any head of State. When they do this then the are vulnerable to all the human frailties that states are. On that, perhaps we agree.

I submit that when religons are posited as assertions of a certain reality without force it is at its best. You can argue that Allah or Jesus or Buddha or nothing is the path of truth, but when you introduce force you actually corrupt the whole process, even though it seems faster and more efficient. It actually loses validity.

I also submit that governments are at their best when we do similarly, when we remove coercion from the equation.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 03:02 | 4270173 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

I don't know what to say anymore.  I used to be an atheist,  I suppose I still am depending on your definitions but after spending 20 + years of my short life being consumed with "spiritual" or "religious" questions I realized that in all the arguments around God no one actually bothers to define what they mean by it even though it carries with it much in its meaning and invested emotions. 

Sad really. Cause only in how you define something can you prove it's existence. 


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 05:08 | 4270254 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Good point Burnbright. People do seem more clear on what they are against or the antithesis.

If I had to do it shorthand I would say God is the source, the first animate from which all others derive. It/He is the consciousness from which all things derive and sort of the ultimate truth. It makes more sense and balances all the improbabilities if the the inanimate and what we see derives from intelligence. At that point all things are imbued with purpose and significance.

On the more local level I believe God, as I understand Him has two key characteristics. He is rational so we can understand, at least up to a point and He is compassionate without which we have no hope. I would add that these two characteristics would become a godly gift to mankind, as well if the creator puts some of himself in the created. Mercurial, evil, morally conflicted gods are not much worth serving. You might fear them but to what end?

There is an external absolute reality including the possibility that there is no god/s whatsoever. In that case, we are just a gargantuan statistical improbability without significance. Then Man is the measure of all things as the most highly evolved improbability.

If you are an atheist Burnbright you are an uncommon type these days. I would have an adult beverage and some open discussions that might advance the thinking of both of us.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:59 | 4267709 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Am I the only one who doesn't give a damn what a pollster says?


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 05:34 | 4268051 Zadok
Zadok's picture

And their poorly worded ambiguous questions.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:09 | 4267444 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Morons believe their Government keeps them safe.......

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:16 | 4267463 Fortunate Fool
Fortunate Fool's picture

Then the entire population of Singapore is moron and people in the US are all geniuses... Moron indeed.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:45 | 4267488 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

Japan was certainly pleased that Singapore was unarmed in WWII.  If you are from Singapore, next time a foreign army comes knocking at your door, be sure to give them your opinion.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 01:58 | 4267883 Big Johnson
Big Johnson's picture

You can blame that one on the Brits

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:23 | 4267903 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

You can blame the Japanese or the Brits.  The point is, everyone is ultimately responsible for their own security.  Relying on someone else for that gets you robbed, killed or marched into some form of camp, foreign or domestic.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 04:20 | 4268005 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Relying on someone else?  Are you saying that countries relying on US security may be in trouble?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:46 | 4267531 quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Please change your avatar to a sheep.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:44 | 4268172 Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

No, I think a bird-brain will do for this guy.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:55 | 4268491 bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

You can tell the people that have a brain by the most down arrows.

Interesting the idea of 'sheeple' persists here, where people can get their ideas reinforced by the local masses with an up arrow :)

Oh the hypocritical idiocy of ideals.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 20:02 | 4269478 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Morons believe govenment grants them rights.

Obama says health insurance is a right.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:15 | 4269715 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I would refine it to "Morons believe government is out first and foremost for your good." Government is out first and foremost for it's own good which at times does mean keeping the population safe, as in defensive wars. However, at times it serves government well to make war on the people as in most communist regimes. Then it is there to make you unsafe as a part of submission. Did KGB kill more Russians or Americans?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:16 | 4267617 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

You're certainly not Swiss.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:54 | 4267698 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Probably a lot more people believe their personal guns will keep them safe than the people who believe their law enforcement systems will keep them safe.


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:22 | 4268155 Wolfbay
Wolfbay's picture

Part of the great divide about guns has to do with Urban vs Rural culture. When I lived in the big city few had guns except cops and criminals and they were rarely used by the general population other than the rare hunter. Now I live on a farm and virtually everyone in the area has guns and they are used often but very rarely by cops or criminals.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:55 | 4267792 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Another "multi year member" who only started posting on October 15th. I suspect the Tylers will be purging your account soon. But please do entertain us while you are still here.

You are simply, an Unfortunate Fool...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:09 | 4267960 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Dictators, muggers, thieves and many others agree with the no guns for you idea, too. Put a sign in front of your house or put a t-shirt on stating you have no guns and walk through the hood. You will be popular.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:40 | 4268353 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"They also believes their guns keep them safe... Morons."

They pay 70% of their income in various taxes, plus annual taxes on their property, their children can be taken away for the weakest reasons, now their healthcare is dictated by the govt and it's double the cost, eventually anti-govt views will get them cut off from any healthcare (and they'll still pay for it).

They're slaves who still think they're free because they have guns. 

2nd amendment isn't about hunting and it's not about self protection.   It's about keeping govt in check, but those guns won't be used for that purpose. 

Seems they're content being slaves long as they have their guns. 


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 00:35 | 4270018 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"They also believes their guns keep them safe... Morons."

Most of the other people believe the gov't and the police will keep them safe.. Morons!


Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:45 | 4267667 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

I believe everything is coming to a final climax,  after which all will be revealed. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:29 | 4267749 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Yes, and if it's like my final climax tonight, they will fall asleep after. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 01:51 | 4267875 chindit13
chindit13's picture

I believe you have it backwards.  When everything is revealed, it often ends in climax.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:13 | 4267957 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Actually it is a "coinherent". Cause and effect is Western Thought.


There are attributes of truth is both statements which leads me to believe that the phenomena are entangled, co-inherent to one another. There is a great deal of wisdom in the Eastern way of thinking.


AS AN EXAMPLE..(I am not "attacking" Drug Use...or crazies)


Does Drug use cause craziness? Or does craziness cause Drug use?


Or perhaps the crazies use Drugs because they are self medicating? Drug use and craziness are "coinherent". One does not "cause" the other as both attributes are inhernet within the subject as an initial condition.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 05:38 | 4268053 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Coorelation is not causation...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 06:15 | 4268070 chindit13
chindit13's picture

I was being a wag.  He's a little too serious to notice even admittedly bad humor.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:16 | 4268101 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Oh I noticed you humor. It was not bad at all. I chuckled at it.


But I also saw it as a good teaching opportunity. So I took the opportunity.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:06 | 4268186 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Fair enough.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:50 | 4268243 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Where the hell is MsCreant?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 09:55 | 4268250 Zadok
Zadok's picture


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:15 | 4268274 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Not allowed...ZH is a 24/7 Operation. What did she fail to learn from Tyler Durden in Fight Club?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:21 | 4268337 Obadiah
Obadiah's picture

Christ is my Savior

Satan doesnt exist

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:52 | 4267415 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I believe that the Earth is actually a giant computer designed by hyper-intelligent aliens to answer the question "what is the meaning of the universe?"  (Spoiler alert:  the answer is 42)

And, of course, I believe in global warming.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:59 | 4267424 DeliciousSteak
DeliciousSteak's picture

The aliens once appeared to me during a sleep paralysis. They are a single consciousness, or what we also know as God. This dimension is a simulation to find out how they themselves evolved.

Oh, and witches. Most definitely witches.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:12 | 4267451 flacon
flacon's picture


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:15 | 4267964 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Them Bones.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 08:37 | 4268163 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Factors 2*7*23

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:22 | 4268278 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Ever been to Yale?


I haven't. But John Hinckley attended with Jodie Foster in 1981.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 02:43 | 4267925 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Yes but during the experiment that planet Earth is to come up with the answer to the question, the original population was replaced by phone janitors, advertising and pr executives, etc. from another planet (who got rid of them in order get rid of useles people but in the end the remaining people were all wiped out by some nasty phone bug) so the experiment got flawed.

That explains a lot about planet Earth. We are then all desendents from useles people from another planet.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:55 | 4267419 jballz
jballz's picture

8% of people stopped believing in god since 2009??

Wow. Short god.

Amazing what a little widespread poverty does to the faithful masses.

There is a god kids, but he only loves 1% of you. Get it right.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:03 | 4267434 Wen_Dat
Wen_Dat's picture

I thought Jews are a higher percentage...

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:06 | 4267440 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I'm pretty certain that more than 8% of Obama's followers have stopped believing in him. Of course, neither God nor Obama need anyone to believe they exist. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:10 | 4267725 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture


8% of people stopped believing in god since 2009??

Those people didn't stop believing in God. They were ruptured into the sky by the rapture back in '11.

If you're reading this, then you didn't make the cut. Sorry.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:31 | 4267756 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

I'm not sorry. I'm waiting for the next rapture. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:50 | 4267787 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

"I’ve met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, “Why?”
Why did I cause so much pain?
Didn’t I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness?
Can’t I see how we’re all manifestations of love?
I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God’s got this all wrong.
We are not special.
We are not crap or trash, either.
We just are.
We just are, and what happens just happens.
And God says, “No, that’s not right.”
Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can’t teach God anything."

Chuck Palahniuk Fight Club

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:24 | 4268282 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

I didn't knw that the rapture ruptured. Those can be painful.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:58 | 4267422 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

Yet scientists can ask, with a straight face, if the universe is nothing but an artificial reality run by aliens who are for all intends and purposes gods without anybody batting an eyelash.


There's nothing stupid about believing that the contents of near-death experiences, shamanic experiences, or dreams are real. They certainly have an immediacy of felt experience that no amount of sophistry can match.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:46 | 4267682 jballz
jballz's picture





You find a wi-fi signal out there?

Come home, it's growing season and the elves miss you.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 01:16 | 4267818 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

I personally found "Proof of Heaven" a compelling read. Coming from a Harvard trained neurosurgeon who experienced E. coli meningitis ( extraordinarily rare for a man of his age) I could intimately appreciate his case by being a microbiologist. That he had no believe in god or religion made his experiences and subsequent belief fascinating.

My own father had a NDE which he wrote down and shared with me after his death. He did not divulge it before because it revealed when he would die which would have upset me terribly at 21. It gave me incredible peace knowing he had resolved himself to his death and made our remaining time together meaningful though, at the time, I hadn't realized it.


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 04:05 | 4267996 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Whether noble savage or modern sage, spirituality distinguishes us from all other life forms.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:58 | 4267427 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

i figured out church was bullshit by the 3rd grade. 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:30 | 4267469 akak
akak's picture

You're a slow learner.

My faith in church outlived my faith in Santa Claus by probably not more than about two weeks --- and died for similar reasons, namely, a refusal to accept fantasy and wishful thinking as fact.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:28 | 4267645 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Funny how the poll didn't ask how many 'american' US citizenism citizens believe in Chinese citizenism. Perhaps is another property acquired by Chinese Communautist Party blobbing up.

But hey, 'american' US citizenism citizens will pay to know what they really think.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:43 | 4267671 akak
akak's picture

Made me laugh.

Just more US 'american' citizenism scrapesgoatery and deflection of the responsibility means, seeking symmetry in the duplicitous characterizing of Chinese Citizenism as more than it is or can be, less even.  Avoiding of taking blame and pushing it to the exterior, ah, that is the nib of the crustiest bit of it.  Wonder where we have seen that before?

But hey, when the nail is sticking up, just have to beat the swordfish into timeshares. 
Same story as always.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:14 | 4267731 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The way the Chinese Citizenism Communautist Party and its gang are leeching on the rest of the world... A new vampire character has to be created to celebrate the Chinese citizenism achievement.

Forget about all vampires you know, real or fictious, just watch in awe the new breed of vampires, born and bred Chinese citizenism citizens through and through. Will give nightmares to your children until they die.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:27 | 4267977 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Still wearing a Spacesuit on the off chance that you will materialize on Mars?


You know that a Quantum Driven trip to Mars is far more likely that a Entire Universe popping into existence by chance. I know that you know that.


If it did not happen by chance then it happened by design...which means that you must infer what, Akak?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:05 | 4268086 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"If it did not happen by chance then it happened by design"

False dichotomy!

It could have happened by accident (Dog made a mistake?!).

It might always have been there/here (like Dog, apparently...).

It could be one part of a larger system (with competing Dogs?).


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:27 | 4268285 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Nope. Not the False Dilemma. Having a little design is like having a girl a little bit pregnant.


If it happened by an accident then it did not happen by Design.

The Physical Evidence demonstrates a Beginning. That is the EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE.

There is absolutely no Empirical Evidence for Exo-Universes.




Sorry. Nice try.

But your response just SMACKS OF RELIGION.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:28 | 4268396 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You are blinded by your own RELIGION to ignore more persuasive EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE that there was NOT a 'beginning'. Consensus for a 'big bang' does not constitute PROOF (or even empirical evidence) for a big simply bolsters the BIBLICAL NARRATIVE.

I'm not going to go into it here. Your empirical nature should cause you to seek it out and evaluate it (as I have).

Use critical thinking, rather than belief.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 04:46 | 4270240 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Right..What is your source for that?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:09 | 4267745 i-dog
i-dog's picture

One-upmanship: I fell foul of my Sunday school teachers before I even started school (or maybe it was around the same time...I can't remember the sequence). From a very young age, I never bought into fairy tales or hypocrisy...which did not sit well with "authority figures".

Today, I've been checking back with my grandchildren on my recent lessons to them on private property ... which has not pleased their mother, since she continually "confiscated" their private property when the mood took her (just like a government). But no more...and since it worked with her, it should also be the first thing that comes to their mind when the government attempts it later.

The sentence I taught them was: "No. You do NOT have my permission to steal my private property!"

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:30 | 4268109 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Akak wrote, "My faith in church outlived my faith in Santa Claus by probably not more than about two weeks --- and died for similar reasons, namely, a refusal to accept fantasy and wishful thinking as fact."


So, Roman Catholics, can you understand the harm that Christmas causes?


Christmas??? Bah!!! Humbug!!!


Tis the season to be LYING. "But...but...but...It was just a white lie."

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 05:54 | 4268062 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Within my experience, God and church are nearly mutually exclusive.
Accepting that this may be Matt. 7:6...
Experiencing God does not infer salvation (Matt. 7:21-23), neither does correlation infer causation.
Experiencing the power of His name is nice but not salvational, but John 14:15 is.
He tells you all that is required, you are expected to do it or logical consequences will result.
Cause and effect...downright simple but asking 'keep what' is required in addition to doing it.

Best wishes my ZH friends!

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:01 | 4267429 Agent P
Agent P's picture

"Well, I believe in the soul, the cock, the pussy, the small of a woman's back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days."

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:02 | 4267438 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

"Bull Durham"


Absolute Classic.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 21:59 | 4267431 Nassim
Nassim's picture

I had always thought that bad times lead to more belief in religion. I mean, the established churches are usually keen to get their flocks into poverty so as to raise their religiosity - discouraging birth-control is an obvious example.

I guess America is an exception - as usual.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:03 | 4267432 DeliciousSteak
DeliciousSteak's picture

Bad times lead to more belief in government. God doesn't provide bread, Obama does.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:10 | 4267447 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

Fuck Obama and his bread. I'm in no mood for that ergot infested rye. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:42 | 4267980 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Why not? It will keep you full, deluded, hallucinating, and easy to control? /sarc


I agree with your sentiments.


But it is still a fact that hard times make people have faith in Government...especially when they do not believe in God.


People believe that God has abandoned them, or does not exist, during Hard Times.


"If God exists then how can He allow this to happen??? Therefore there must be no God." is their attitude.


Of course God did not cause this. We did.


And when you love someone then it is best that you allow them to SUFFER CONSEQUENCES so that they do not repeat the same destructive acts.


Don't shoot the messinger because you do not like the message.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:15 | 4267465 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Being clueless about how an economy works leads to more belief in government. Believing one is a victim leads to more belief in government. Being lazy leads to more belief in government. And on and on I could go, but won't. And Obama never gave me bread or anything, although he did cause my BS detector to get stuck in the on position.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:19 | 4267969 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

That's actually the leftist plan. Government provides all necessities of life, provides "fairness", provides "economic justice". and with enough power and rules will bring utopia to earth.

You make government god and then the rulers become gods.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:16 | 4267464 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

hell the catholics can buttfuck the kids and people still show up to mass

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:22 | 4267475 akak
akak's picture

That's just the traditional Catholic sacrament of anal communion.

"Behold the shaft of God, which takest away the sins of the world ..."

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:28 | 4267747 Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

akak: My old Mother even laughed at this one many years ago...

A group of orphans were on a boat crossing the ocean in the company of a Nun, a lawyer, and a Priest. The ship started to sink and panic ensued...

Nun: Oh My God, we have to save the children!

Lawyer: Fuck the children!

Priest: Do you think we have time for that?

(Commence religious down voting)

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:47 | 4267988 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

LMAO. Thanks.

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 23:54 | 4267693 Tim_
Tim_'s picture

Give the jews some credit. Rabbis suck on the dicks of baby boys.

What is Metzitzah?

"The original technique for the performance of metzitzah employs the human mouth. The mohel brings the baby’s organ into his mouth immediately after the excision of the foreskin and sucks blood from it vigorously."

I didn't know that vampires could get herpes.

Herpes-death probe of bris baby

"The death of a 2-week-old baby boy who contracted herpes following an ultra-Orthodox circumcision is being investigated by the Brooklyn District Attorney’s Office."

"The infant had been circumcised in a controversial religious ceremony in which a rabbi or mohel draws blood away from the freshly circumcised penis with his mouth."

"In 2004, another baby died after catching herpes from a Rockland rabbi who performed the bris."

Bnei Brak, Israel - Baby Seriously Injured in Circumcision

"An eight-day old baby sustained serious injuries during a bris (circumcision) ceremony held at a Bnei Brak event hall this evening."

"Following the bris and after the mohel had already left the building, the baby's parents noticed that his diaper was soaked with blood."

"The parents told the Magen David Adom paramedics who arrived at the place that although their son was suffering from hepatitis, they insisted on holding the bris on time."

This rabbi has sucked on 25,000 dicks

"The mohel, A. Romi Cohn, said he had performed more than 25,000 circumcisions, on babies and adults, in New York City and elsewhere over the last 40 years."

"When he circumcises an infant, he said, he almost always put his mouth on the baby’s penis to pull blood away from the wound in an ancient part of the circumcision ritual, known in Hebrew as metzitzah b’peh... ."

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 01:38 | 4267851 Blazed
Blazed's picture


Indeed, they have some serious issues, of course it isn't covered in Kosher corporate media.

This goes a long way toward explaining many of their particular dysfunctions, secular or religious.

"Variations of the DNST3 gene make Ashkenazi Jews 40 percent more likely to develop schizophrenia and similar diseases."

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 06:01 | 4268064 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Are ashkenazis' Jews?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 07:03 | 4268093 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Not all of them. The Jesuits (beginning with Loyola and Borgia, and later continuing with the leading Illuminati) are also predominantly Ashkenazis.

The Khazarians are a tribe, not a religion. They frequently switch religious clothing and are found at the head of all religions.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:29 | 4268592 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Smart, pragmatic people. I like 'em already.  Because...

They must have figured out that if you're going to 'believe' in invisible products, you might as well lead them.  ---> Bullish for job security and lifestyle.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 21:00 | 4269590 i-dog
i-dog's picture

My sentiments, too. In fact, as a very tall blue-eyed blonde, I'm genetically one of them. There is also very strong evidence that they have long been "the smartest guys in the room" but, as a voluntarist, I'm opposed to them (or anybody else) continually trying to rule me or the world. Can't blame them for trying, though.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:08 | 4268405 Tim_
Tim_'s picture

Ashkenazi jews are lighter-skinned than Sephardic jews. Ashkenazi jews call Sephardic jews "schwartze." "Schwartze" or "schvartzer" or "kooshim" are jewish words for "nigger."

Ashkenazi jews brutally discriminate against Sephardic jews.

Haredi school rejects 'Sephardi' child

"Talmud Torah school rejects four-year-old due to Sephardi grandfather. Principal says child has ‘stain’ in genealogy"

"Anyone who thinks that racist rules are a thing of the past is wrong, according to the mother of a four-and-a-half year old child who was rejected from a Talmud Torah school because of his grandfather’s ethnicity."

"'They are alive and kicking in all their ugliness in Ashkenazi haredi educational institutions,' the mother said."

"'Tell the child’s dear father that although he himself is completely Ashkenazi, his wife’s father is Sephardic, and we therefore cannot accept his son into our institution. We have to maintain a certain standard,' the principal said."

Another Jewish Problem

"Bernstein tells us that he migrated to Israel and there met and married Ziva, 'a Sephardic Jewess from Iraq.' As a result, he was given an inferior status in Israel and subjected to such discriminatory pressures that in the end he had to leave his wife."

"He also tells us that in Tel Aviv he shared a table in a cafe with '5 Sephardic Jews from Morocco.' An Israeli policeman entered the cafe. He is described as a 'blue-eyed Nazi-Type,' and could well have been one of the male infants whom the Jews kidnapped in Germany in 1945 and took to Israel to raise them as Jews and use them to improve the physique of their strange race, in which Jewishness is transmitted by females, regardless of the race of the father."

"The police officer ordered Bernstein, 'get away from those kooshim (niggers).' When Bernstein wanted to wait until he finished the meal before him, he was forced at gun-point to throw his meal on the floor and leave the cafe in which he had been insulting Israel by associating with some of the 'Sephardic Jews' who form a large part of its population but are perpetually reminded of their status as virtual pariahs."

"From that incident you can guess what was the distinction made in Israel, but when Mr. Martin wrote up the text, he forgot to ask his principal for a specific statement of it, such as is given in Sevela's book: 'The highest and most impassable racial watershed, which divides Israeli society into two fiercely warring camps, is the color of one's skin: on the one hand, the Jews from Europe and America; on the other, the Jews from Asia and Africa: the Ashkenazim and the Sephardim--the white Jews and the black Jews.'"

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:15 | 4268416 Blazed
Blazed's picture


Around 90% of Jews are Ashkenazim.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:55 | 4268797 Zadok
Zadok's picture

Hmmm, kind of makes you want to ask some further questions. Been down that road a lot, it gets murky as every form of negative coersion is used to drive compliance to merely repeat w/o asking obvious and appropriate questions.
So, what about the 6 mil killed? Who were they really? Is the number real? What color was their skin? What was the population before and after the holocaust? Percentage by skin color? What about now?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:02 | 4268843 Blazed
Blazed's picture


Which 6 million? Do you mean the first Jewish holocaust of "6 million" before, during, and after WWI?

Or the actual total 280,000 Jews that died primarily due to typhus epidemics and later due to direct allied bombing, malnutrition and disease, while interned during WWII, as reported by the ICRC who had representatives in all the camps since 1942?

Or maybe Eisenhower, De Gaulle, and Churchill missed something, lol.

"Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages; and De Gaulle's three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages. In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi "gas chambers," a "genocide" of the Jews, or of "six million" Jewish victims of the war."


Unless you would like to continue to believe the discredited(coercion, fabrications) Soviet laden kangaroo court "Nuremberg Trials", which were simply about general "war crimes", not holocausts, and that even an involved US Federal Court Justice, a prominent Jewish international law professor, US Congressmen, and many others who were directly involved, called a complete fraud.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:08 | 4269251 Zadok
Zadok's picture

@ Blazed
Thank you for the links. I have perused each of them and added them to my reading list, right behind David Irving.

Like everything else in this perverted upside down world. Nothing is what it seems. If it is illegal or persecuted, you know there is something 'you are not supposed to question. It doesn't mean it's true, just that it is where you should start digging. There are plenty of 2nd, 3rd, and 4 th level deceptions (distractions) in operation.

Based on the coersion to comply (or at least not resist publicly), my hunch is that it is probably wildly false for the purposes of power and money aquisition without concern for justice.

Thank you for avoiding the shrill tones. I hear truth when I can investigate on my own.

Trust no one. It is a valuable lesson hard learned.

Best wishes!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:41 | 4267983 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

So, using this as precedent, I surmise it's ok what Priests do to Altar Goys?

Seriously though, if this had been done by ANY other religious group -- especially by 'Christians' or Muslims -- can you imagine the hullabaloo by the MSM and politicians?

Figure out who is allowed to molest infants and not make headlines or waves, and you'll find out who rules you. Or, rather, whom you're allowing to rule you.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 10:58 | 4268310 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

If you are an atheist then yes it is okay. Who cares? Alpha Male Chimpanzees buttfuck all Males it their group.


Humans are just Animals. They exhibit Animal Behavior. There is nothing special about Humans.


You must abandon your Good and Evil bullshit to be an atheist.


You may not like the fact that the Lion kills the Gazelle on the African Plain. But it is NOT Evil.

You may not like the fact that the Rattlesnake will bite Human Children. But it is NOT Evil.

You may not like the fact that the Alpha Male Chimpanzee will Buttfuck all of the other males Chimpanzees in his group. But it is NOT Evil.

You may not like the fact that the Alpha Male Catholic Priest will Buttfuck all of the Altar Boys in his Congregation. But it is NOT Evil.


Just because you do not like it does NOT make it Evil. Just who are you to impose this Morality on others?


What you like and what you dislike are YOUR OWN PREFERENCES. After all we are JUST ANIMALS, a little more intelligent but that does not make you special.


Good and Evil just do NOT serve YOU well in the Animal Kingdom. And that is all the Human Being is..just another fucking ANIMAL in the Animal Kingdom.


So eat, drink and be Merry for tommorrow we die. Why concern yourself with other animals buttfucking other animals. As long as it does not happen to you then what concerns need you have?


You may not like it. But it is not immoral as that just smacks of FUCKING RELIGION. You can Down Arrow this all that you want but it will not change the reality.


You ought to read Friedrich Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil". (I have.) As an atheist it will bring you peace after you learn to transcend those aspects.


Because without a God we are just Animals. We are born, we eat, we fuck and we die. We do not belong to the Kingdom of God at all. There is no such thing. We belong to the ANIMAL KINGDOM where all Natural Laws apply.


And as my Atheist friend has instructed me, we are free to do what we want, to whom we want, as long as we are willing to pay the consequences. He gave me that book to read and so I did.


Nietzsche is correct. There are no Morals in the Animal Kingdom and Humans are not exceptional. That is the Rational Approach to Atheism.


My friend is paid by the State of California to teach this.


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:34 | 4268606 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Neitzche was a fascinating man. I read some of his works and was transfixed in many ways. My brother became thoroughly enamoured to the point of fanaticism. I tried to make light of it. I wore a tee shirt that would really piss him off. " God is dead" Neitzche "Neitzche is dead" God.

One night I woke up in a panic at my college dorm after a horrible dream. I banged on a friends door and begged him to drive me home. I broke into my moms appartment and stole my dads gun and we took it to mr miffed's farm. Twenty five years later my brother confessed to me he had tried to commit suicide but moved at the last minute and shot the ceiling. He had resolved to do it the next day but couldn't t find the gun. He told me he was so thankful that had happened because he was so happy now and it would have been a terrible mistake. When I confessed what I did we cried in each others arms for the longest time.

I really don't know if god exists. Much of the arguements are just fun at cerebral cocktail parties and I do enjoy a good debate. But I know there is an unknowable presence in my life that has guided me many times. It is inexplicable and though I can't define it properly, I am thankful for its existance.


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 08:35 | 4270354 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

You may have attracted the interest of one of the "good" alien energy creatures, otherwise known as angels.  Consider yourself blessed.  Also know that they may block the puppetmasters' most evil plans unless there is collective consent.  This helps explain the mass mind control, TPTB implanting ideas about what they are going to do, why they try so hard to get the sheeple to mistake evil for good and vice versa, etc.  Maybe we're still doomed. 

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:04 | 4267441 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I believe the NSA is protecting me from terrists, Ben Bernanke is trying his damnedest to revive the economy, Obama is exactly who he claims to be, and the Government knows best when it comes to managing our future.......

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:14 | 4267460 Jlasoon
Jlasoon's picture

And brown men with box cutters hijacked planes, flew them with precision never before seen in aviation, penetrated the most sophisticated air defense system on the planet, and murdered "Merica"......

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:17 | 4267472 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

NYC had an active air defense system? Not that I believe the MSM on 9-11, but what air defense system are you talking about?

Sat, 12/21/2013 - 22:32 | 4267495 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

The pentagon. The idea that a plane that size flew that low to the ground that fast and nailed the pentagon is the most ridiculous thing. Yet people believe it happened. fascinating. I'm sure Snowden is going to get around to it right after he is done informing me that the nsa knows when I look at titties online.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 03:53 | 4267992 Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

When people watched the movie, "Twister", they bought the idea that a Truck can collide with a moving house and emerge on the other side virtually unscathed.


People can suspend their disbelief when it suits them. That is what is fascinating.


They can celebrate a lie as they are planning to do on Wednesday...when it is evidential from the Biblical Account that Christ was NOT BORN in the dead of Winter.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 16:53 | 4269095 darteaus
Sun, 12/22/2013 - 17:06 | 4269111 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Finally!  The TRUTH about 911!!

THEY did it!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 00:11 | 4267726 Osmium
Osmium's picture

Don't forget finding the hijackers passport at the World Trade Center.  It was a miracle.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 16:53 | 4269070 darteaus
darteaus's picture

You expected the passport to dematerialize?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 05:23 | 4268040 darteaus
darteaus's picture

And explosives were planted in the TWO WTCs unseen.  The explosives, their fuses and the trigger all survive hours of burning jet fuel, only to be simultaneoulsy triggered.  This is repeated in the second WTC.  WTC 7 was easy after that!

But that's not the amazing part.  The most amazing part of the entire thing......are you really ready for this......................I mean REALLY READY?........................OK..............THE MOST AMAZING THING


Some believe the buildings collapsing had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AIRCRAFT CRASH AND SUBSEQUENT FIRES!!!!


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