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JPMorgan Imposes Spending Caps On 10% Of Its Debit Cards Due To Target Security Breach

Tyler Durden's picture


That yet another major retailer was hacked, as happened last week when Target announced that as many as 40 million credit and debit cards used from November 27 until December 15 at its stores  (one wonders why it took the retailer three weeks to realize/announce what was happening) had been "compromised", is no surprise. What was a big surprise is the action one major financial company took in response to the mega hack. The company in question was JPMorgan, and what it did was to tell customers whose debit cards had been used at Target stores during the period in question, that it was limiting use of their cards to cash withdrawals of $100 and purchases to $300 per day.

However, what is perhaps most surprising is the sheer number of cards with spending caps: The new limit effects roughly 2 million accounts, or roughly 10% of Chase debit card accounts, according to a bank spokeswoman.

So with millions of Americans blocked from bulk purchases just in time for Christmas, will the Census department be forced to "seasonally adjust" December retail sales data substantially higher to "pro forma" what spending would have been net of computer hacks?

"We are taking additional measures to protect Chase accounts from the Target breach, and our branches and call centers are there to help these customers," a Chase spokesperson said.

Reuters adds that the bank said in the letter that it plans to reissue affected debit cards over the coming weeks and in the meantime said employees at its 5,600 branches would help those who need more cash. Many branches will stay open late "if needed," the letter said.

From the WSJ:

Target is working with the Secret Service as well as a forensics unit at Verizon Communications to investigate the breach, which lasted from Nov. 27 until Dec. 15. The company is working to set up a year of fraud protection monitoring for customers affected, Target spokeswoman Molly Snyder said on Saturday.


Typically, banks are responsible for financial losses tied to fraudulent transactions, though in some significant cases that responsibility may be passed on to the merchant. After a similar data breach at discount retailer in 2007, that company agreed to pay $65 million to Visa Inc. and MasterCard Inc. to resolve potential claims by banks that lost money.


On Saturday, Target said it is continuing to help customers obtain credit reports and change pin numbers on their cards to guard against potential fraud.


The security breach raises concerns that Target might lose sales during the final days of the important year-end holiday shopping season. Target offered customers at its U.S. stores a 10% discount this weekend, a move aimed at drawing customers back to its outlets.

Well, it may not be Cyprus where the capital controls and spending caps resulting from the March near-death experience of its financial system will remain forever a long time; instead what it is is a partial form of capital controls resulting from a "security breach", whereby the bank whose obligation is to prevent fraud retroactively, instead imposes blanket proactive spending limits on all. Luckily, such trial computer hacks (and the Syrian Electronic Army has yet to be blamed) will never take place across the entire financial system, usually just in time when there is a wholesale demand of deposits, if only by that part of the population that stil has cash held at zero interest deposit accounts.


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Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:37 | 4268347 Truther
Truther's picture

Welcome to Capital Controls....

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:39 | 4268350 kliguy38
kliguy38's picture

Capital controls???    "We ain't got no capital controls"!   Relax and enjoy the water

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:41 | 4268358 Stackers
Stackers's picture

So the big argument with Bitcoin is how easy it is to steal, and how you're "protected" by the banking system. So your "protection" is the theives cant have your money and neither can you ......... hum ?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:51 | 4268367 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

They are going to lock everyone out if need be.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:07 | 4268402 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

False flag?

There, I said it. No reason to leave cash in the bank and use debit cards. Better off keeping cash at home and if you must keep it in the bank, keep it in a safety deposit box. They haven't stopped people from accessing their boxes...yet.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:12 | 4268409 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

This HAS to be an inside job by some one at Target.   Most of the time a breach blamed on outside hackers is the fault of a disgruntled employee.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:20 | 4268418 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

It's all preordained and if anyone thinks otherwise must be a shill, or delusional fiat-endorser.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:03 | 4268501 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Now just remember.. Just because you're paranoid.. Doesn't mean they're not out to get you!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:06 | 4268508 fonestar
fonestar's picture

+1 Nirvana reference!

So what this article is basically saying is if you enjoy being treated like a dumb child, then stick with traditional banks and their credit and debit cards.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:18 | 4268549 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh it's saying a lot more than that.  See my rant below for further details.

I didn't mean to quote Nirvana which I like.  I first heard that saying back in the late 60's

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 16:07 | 4268958 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Oh yea, fix it and make sure it never happens again, where have I heard that one before?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:36 | 4268761 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

-- T. Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 17:39 | 4269194 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

"Target is work with Secret Service"

Same agency is guard JFK... how so much reassuring!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:54 | 4268793 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Yup. The overwhelming majority of Information Security breeches are inside jobs. IIRC.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 03:59 | 4270211 ActionFive
ActionFive's picture

A disgruntled target employee. That's hard to find.. S/

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:13 | 4268410 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Yes  they have.A while ago in FDR's time, but they have done it.

If its not in your hand ,its not yours.

I have family with money still trapped in Cypriot banks.

They were warned , so have you been.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:17 | 4268415 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

I wouldn't leave a dime in a safety deposit box. If you can't trust the bank to leave your money in an account, why would you trust them with SD boxes?

There are numerous articles and news stores about banks and governments confiscating the contents of these boxes.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Be wise.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:51 | 4268645 klockwerks
klockwerks's picture

Silver, if it's in the box at the bank, the bank owns it.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:10 | 4268706 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

This smells like an NSA op conditioning the public to the coming "cyber war" they have been creating as an excuse to solidify their control of the internet and other narratives.

Banks are the finale... Problem, reaction, solution.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:35 | 4268444 max2205
max2205's picture

Just like the EBT freeze...except no riots in Walmart

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:26 | 4268583 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The irony being that "theives" can use bitcoin to buy your stolen CC#

I eagerly await the "synthesis."

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:50 | 4268470 tjeffersonsghost
tjeffersonsghost's picture

You are leaving out a pretty important fact, this only affects DEBIT cards and not CREDIT cards.  Pretty easy to know the answer why but if you need me to explain I will.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:49 | 4268472 tjeffersonsghost
tjeffersonsghost's picture

double post

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:53 | 4268474 VD
VD's picture

if u want ur capital controls, u can--    oh fuck it the USSA farce is just too fucking 'transparent' ...

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 00:14 | 4269977 Who Laughed
Who Laughed's picture

That's Correct, 
-If you like your deposits, you can keep your deposits (more or less)

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:37 | 4268351 bania
bania's picture

now if i can convince my wife to get one of these cards

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:55 | 4268388 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

The Zero Card, don't leave home without it!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 23:26 | 4269886 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

or if I could just limit her shopping to Target

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:55 | 4268387 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture

Wells Fargo limits cash withdrawals at $310.00.   I spoke with a rep who told me I wasn't allowed to increase it regardless of the need.   When I withdrew my cash and closed my account, they acted like i was in trouble with the law.


All banksters must hang!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:49 | 4268466 Cookie
Cookie's picture

I got rid of my last credit card in 1987, and dumped my last charge card in 2005. Yes, life is a tad tricky at times, but worth it.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:54 | 4268479 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

First off, it WILLl be illegal to close your account and try to withdraw large amounts of cash, very shortly!!

Secondly, does anyone think this story is much bigger then what is being reported here? First no intl. wire transfers, now this shit!! TPTB must be preparing for some big disturbance in the force, coming very quickly!

If I had to guess, I would say something is gearing to go down in the South China Sea!! Which from a geopolitical standpoint, would make these adventures in the ME, look like kindergarten class!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:19 | 4268543 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

No shit!  This is all part of what I've said here numerous times that the big banks who OWN the Federal Reserve are protecting their ass now cause they clearly see the writing on the wall saying this country and the whole world if FUCKED really!  And there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Why do you think the big banks have been buying up all the real estate they can get?   Because they know the US dollar will soon be worthless and there simply isn't enough physical gold to buy without it going to $20 million an ounce. So they're buying up land and housing and farms. But the big problem with real estate is protecting it from the rioting hordes when the country fails. So they're glad to fund drones and armored vehicles and militarize the police forces to protect their real estate when the time comes.

This is also why there has been so much effort to centralize control of all police forces under a Federal agency so the Constitution can effectively be ignored.

Seem familiar??    Willkommen in der SS!!

Hope your goose step is in good form.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:37 | 4268612 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

"...does anyone think this story is much bigger then what is being reported here?"

Sir, please avert your eyes. Do not gaze upon the individual behind the curtain. Please regard this nice strawman we have constructed, upon which we will permit you to cast your indignation.

That is all.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:59 | 4268667 cbaba
cbaba's picture

Yes, its all the banksters fault.

All cards in Europe, whether its a debit or credit card( any brand master, visa, amex, etc) issued from any bank,  there is a small chip inserted inside the card for security and you have to use a security password/pin number each time you do a transaction. These cards cannot be copied.

They haven't done this yet in US, why ? i don't think its a cost issue, they charge $30-$40 /yr card fees, its probably $1-$5 cost for the chip.There must be other reasons, either they charge fees to vendors, or they keep customers money in the bank by imposing such limits by this excuse...

one more reason to convict these corrupt banksters.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:10 | 4269703 safe as milk
safe as milk's picture

i've heard that the reason that the u.s. hasn't gone to the chip thing is that they did some kind of a study and found that less people will use cards for transactions if it requires them to enter a pin. they will just pay with cash. they decided that it is better to have a higher incidence of fraud than lose business to other forms of payment that don't require a pin. i believe this is the same logic as to why you can now charge up to $50 without signing. another thing, i used to have a credit card with my picture on it to minimize the chance of someone using the card in person, if it was stolen. after a few years, they dicontinued the voluntary program. it seems to me there is a lot of low hanging security fruit that is being ignored by the bankster cartel in the hope that we'll all just go to pure credit/debit card payment system. boy these people hate cash transactions.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:33 | 4268755 Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Millivanilli - $310 withdrawal at the teller or at the ATM or both?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 15:45 | 4268894 Millivanilli
Millivanilli's picture


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:56 | 4269803 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

I don't know what happened to this guy but I once raised my Wells Fargo ATM withdrawal limit to $4500 over the phone, no problem, no questions asked. Only took about five minutes to make it happen.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 15:50 | 4268909 l8apex
l8apex's picture

You must be a hell of a bad credit risk.  WF starts everybody at a $300 withdrawal limit.  If you're a customer in good standing, all you have to do is ask for a higher limit and they'll give it to you.  So I had mine set at $600.


All of this other talk about capital controls...  Get over yourself already.  These limits only affect debit cards not credit cards.  

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 17:09 | 4269137 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Are you kidding?

So you can run up costs on your credit cards? Great. And the USSA can keep track of everything you buy. When I'm in my second country of France, it is against the law, actually ILLEGAL to pay more than 800 euros for anything in cash. It must be traceable, either by check or by card. Keep the underground economy down.

I've got a different, regional bank. They allow me to take out $2000 per day out of ATMs. We've been stocking up on cash because of the writing on the wall. Now if it weren't for that terrible canoe trip, we might be able to buy all we need without Uncle Scam trying to keep track of us.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:22 | 4269726 safe as milk
safe as milk's picture

i went to the teller in my local hsbc branch a few months ago and withdrew about $10k in cash. they went into a tizzy, got the manager and about 5 mins. later i got the cash with an admonition that if i wanted a large cash withdrawal, i should telephone the branch two days in advance. more recently, i withdrew $5k in cash and no one seemed to care. i think the thing to do, if you want to get your money out as cash, is to make a couple of $5k withdrawals per week. if you're in my economic bracket, then it won't take very long to close out the account without anyone noticing. the people at my hsbc branch are very sweet and helpful but let's face it they work for a criminal enterprise. i can't wait to get my money out of there.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 23:17 | 4269848 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

There's a reason why your first transaction caused a "tizzy." 

Structuring your withdrawals to avoid a similar situation might result in attention from folks less sweet and helpful than the folks down at the HSBC.

Ironic considering HSBC was fined for laundering mucho grande quantities of drug dinero.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:17 | 4268554 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

..."First TRIAL run...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:37 | 4268348 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture


Capital controls.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:11 | 4268408 The Gooch
The Gooch's picture

OT: Al Sharpton's "gun violence" townhall in Chicago backfires.


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:55 | 4268492 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Not necessarily.

In a JIT world, NO ONE keeps millions of pieces cardstock on hand to FedEx to customers (even if they were willing to swallow the expense, or sue Target for it).

So if JPM wanted to be PROACTIVE they would simply cancel 2 million debit cards the week before Christmas (and get around to issuing new cards to customers "whenever available or based on prioritization of the relatively minimal customer revenue from the 99%) and thereby eliminate the fraud risk and substitute it with Customer loss risk.

Things always appear simpler from the peanut gallery, but having been there I know I don't have enough FACTS yet to criticize their solution, other than that the entire INDUSTRY is at fault for not scaling their response capability in the face of ever increasing data breaches.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:39 | 4268349 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

The sheeple are being prepared for slaughter.

Mutton anyone ?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:38 | 4268352 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture




Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:43 | 4268359 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Funny how a destabilizing event occurs just in time for Christmas isnt it.  But of course all of this is just random hacking...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 17:11 | 4269143 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Happy 100th birthday to the US Fed!!!!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:44 | 4268363 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Hmmm. Sounds like a False Flag Operation. Blythe hacks Target and Jamie puts in capital controls. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:45 | 4268364 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

And most Americans will blindly ignore yet another clear warning thrown right in their face.

Seems like Martial Law is the only thing that is going to wake anyone up.


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:48 | 4268375 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

As long as NFL, MLB, IPHONES, VENUE PROs and crap are available nothing will happen. Sheeples will be Sheeples . Never underestimate the power of inbreeding. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:53 | 4268484 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Seems like Martial Law is the only thing that is going to wake anyone up.

We will do whatever is necessary to protect the American Dream. Please stand by to be protected.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:44 | 4268365 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I have a credit card (ONE, and not with Chase).  For the last couple of years they have de-authorized it and issued me a new one with a different number, etc. roughly once a year- sometimes more, sometimes less, but I have never made it to the official expiration date on the card.  The letter that comes with it always says that it's because of potential unauthorized access to my account information, depsite the fact that no strange charges appeared on my card.  Sounded sufficiently weird so I called them up and asked what was going on.

Here's the story- every CC machine you ever swipe your card through records that information AND KEEPS IT for a ridiculous period of time (years).  So if that machine ever changes hands, including being sent back to the various companies that sell/lease/service those machines the data within them is considered "potentially compromised."  And that triggers the replacement credit card process that I've been through at least 4 times now.

So, your CC information isn't just floating around in some giant database somewhere IT'S ALSO LOCAL ON EVERY MACHINE YOU SWIPE YOUR CARD THROUGH.

I will point out they've never knocked down my credit limit or put more than the usual restrictions on cash withdrawals (which I never use the card for anyway).  I guess they're cool with racking up as much debt as possible on my card, legitimate or otherwise.


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:46 | 4268370 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Ah the unintended consquances of Techological Advancement . Must love Tech and be slaves to it. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:53 | 4268382 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

That explanation doesn't sound right to me.

The restrictions both VISA MC etc and my preocessor put on my business

regarding data retention are onerous.I use a direct online service ,not

a swipe machine .I'm sure the processor machine

manufaturers have much more stringent restrictions.

I call BS.I wonder what the real reason is.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:18 | 4268712 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Wouldn't a crypto transaction service like BTC prevent this from happening?

Wait, how did the FBI take over the Silk Road Bitcoin wallet again?

Hackers?, Government?, hackers from the government...?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 15:08 | 4268817 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

TOR is comprimised.

Uncle Scam did a SWIFT on them.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:47 | 4268372 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

The whole western financial system is preparing for depositor bail-ins to recapitalize the mostly insolvent large global banks. This process will require a bank holiday (see the Cyprus bail in situation, a dry run for the bigger event) while the numbers are figured out. What better excuse to freeze bank deposits, allow only minimum daily withdrawals and rejig the whole ponzi scheme, than a massive internet hack of the global credit system.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:47 | 4268467 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

these are insolvent countries not "insolvent banks." the banks...the countries...they are one and the same. we could get a Ponzi reset here.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:50 | 4268374 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Still continuing my slow motion bank run. Keep withdrawing, my friends.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:55 | 4268383 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I'm going to need a bigger boat.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:22 | 4268427 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Not if you want your metal to be "lostatsea"...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:19 | 4268714 giggler321
giggler321's picture

and withdrawl's don't protect against devaluation, if like in BRIC's some country decides to knock 33% of their value, those notes under the bed get devalued to; even if you are withdrawing now, it won't help

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 15:46 | 4268904 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Devaluation is being dealt with via stacking and other methods. "Getting Cyprus'd" is my motivation. I expect both of these scenarios.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:50 | 4268380 Jam
Jam's picture

There should be a cap on JP Morgan on how much they can manipulate the financial markets on any given day.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:26 | 4268740 logicalman
logicalman's picture

There is a limit - just less than will completely give the game away.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:57 | 4268386 foxmuldar
foxmuldar's picture

So their card informatiion was hacked. Has anyone complained that their Credit card was used to purchase items the card owner never purchased? With Millions of cards compromised, you would expect a shit load of merchandise was bought using the stolen CC numbers. When the December sales numbers come out less then expected, Obama will blame it on the Target hacking and not on folks having to use their cash to pay those higher premiums for shitty plans. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 11:58 | 4268391 markar
markar's picture

the most disturbing thing about this is 20 million people still have checking accounts at Chase.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:21 | 4268426 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Dimon and Family would like take time to thank the Sheeples 

 jamie dimon's holiday card


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:00 | 4268397 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

     JPM = Bank of Cyprus

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:16 | 4268417 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

The bank should share the loss on this because the security of these cards is very lacking.  Most instances you can charge thousands just by drawing a squiggle on the signature line.  I've watched customers sign worse than Loop de Lewie. The don't even require a pin number.  In this instance, a pin number known only to the card owner and the bank would have prevented fraud with the card.  For internet sales, the pin authorization could be handled as a redirect to the banks website.  This is an absurd problem to have in 2013.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:19 | 4268419 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

40 Million out of the 145 million people who actually work in this country all went to Target that week and swiped thheir cards really?? Lies.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:22 | 4268425 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Look a back door to capital controls...

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:22 | 4268428 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Ministry of Propaganda Hard At work



Mon, 12/23/2013 - 02:17 | 4270144 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

More like the last month.  

The retailer said that the unlawful access to customer information took place between Nov. 27 and Dec.15. :  From an article. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:17 | 4268420 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Just transferred 100k Grandcoin GDC from the exchange to my wallet.  Took all of 30 seconds and cost an exchange fee of .01 GDC or .00002 dollars.  That's one five hundredth of a penny.

Enjoy your dying fiat money :-)

The Bitcoin Channel

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:27 | 4268733 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

If digital crypto currency tools like BTC have taught me anything, it's that the world really doesn't need central banks. In a way it reminds us the weakness, they need you to believe in it for it to work.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:27 | 4268433 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The Capital Controls Card.  Now with double cash rewards to the bank issuer.   What do you have in your wallet?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:42 | 4268462 A82EBA
A82EBA's picture

Good one

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:33 | 4268440 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Whoever has an account with JPM, after everything that has happened, deserves whatever shit gets flung at them.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:29 | 4268590 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

By proxy, that's just about every EBT card in the US and more added daily as more entitlement programs shiift to EBT vs. checks.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:41 | 4268773 ReligiousAtheist1
ReligiousAtheist1's picture

Preach WB7

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:33 | 4268445 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

It's coming. Cash only. Or Gold/Silver in your pocket. It's the only thing that will work.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:02 | 4268499 max2205
max2205's picture

Silver is down 50% in 3 years...thanks for the advise 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:31 | 4268744 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

Are you mad that silver is on sale?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:39 | 4268770 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Well, seeing that he can't spell "advice", there isn't much to add is there?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:55 | 4269370 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

max2205 said:

Silver is down 50% in 3 years...thanks for the advise

In terms of FRNs, silver is up 90% from five years ago.

Did you have a point?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:50 | 4268469 smacker
smacker's picture

Were it not for the extraordinary numbers of account holders apparently affected, JPM's backdoor capital control is more believable than the four occasions that Britain's RBS (and its bigger subsidiary NatWest) have introduced the same thing, claiming it on "computer glitches". Curiously, on every occasion, only outgoing transactions from the bank and its credit cards were blocked whereas incoming transactions continued but the monies were not allocated to customer accounts and actually disappeared into a black hole for up to several days. hhmmm.

In reality were these actually "liquidity problems" in the bank?? and someone high up hits the bank's panic button??

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 12:56 | 4268489 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Shit happens. No one will remember this in a month or two just like the other 10,000 "end-of-the-world" disasters that came before. Panic sells mouseclicks.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:10 | 4268520 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

I 'd rather lose 50% than 100%.

If you cannot see whats coming you are a fool , and will part with all your money.

He who  loses least ,wins.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:18 | 4268557 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Opportunity cost, its been following us since September 2011.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:07 | 4268510 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Can't a seal team or a search and destroy team go in and capture Jamie Dimon and then shut down the Parasitic JP Morgue so this won't happen again? 

Has America gone pussy for ever? Or, What?

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:47 | 4268608 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

I know the financial system is up to no good absolutely. However, this Target breach and the controls many banks have put on the affected cards don't seem hinky to me, they seem completely prudent.  

Go read the blow by blow articles about this breach here:

or here:

The breach of Target got 40 Million cards!!!  This would be the largest breach of credit cards in history!  

Not only did the attackers get the card swipe, and CVV code (if entered by cashier), they got the pin code from anyone stupid enough to run debit transactions at a store. The scale of this breach is really the problem.  Fraud committed on cards will simply overrun the fraud detection and prevention systems.  The banks can't reissue millions or hundreds of thousands of cards that quickly, especially over Christmas.  They're fucked, it's that simple. 

The cards are already for sale on the net for about $100 each.  Because idiots use debit transactions at POS (point of sale) the banks, networks and merchants are scrambling to try to prevent fraud.   For credit transactions, the merchant is liable, for debit, the bank and or account holder is liable.  So any bank, credit union etc. who has seen their cards on the internet marketplace for sale, they can reasonably suspect fraud is coming, and they're trying to stop it the best they can.  Hence the debit withdrawl limits. 

If you're really concerned, go pull cash out from the teller.

This breach says more about the insanity and abject failure of the merchant  and credit card system than anything else.  Really it's a very strong argument for Bitcoin.  The credit card money system is an expensive mess.  This just demonstrates alternatives like Bitcoin aren't just useful, they're absolutely necesary.  Oh, and it seems Target fucked up royally somewhere. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 13:56 | 4268666 the question
the question's picture

It seems to me something like this could happen to bitcoin as well, no? I mean they are both just electronic money systems, susceptible to computer wizard hackers.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:16 | 4268695 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

The only thing that can happen with Bitcoin is that they can be stolen from the owner (like cash) if you don't store them securely.  Each Bitcoin has it's own cryptographic number.  Bitcoin is more like cash than credit cards.  Your credit card uses the same number, expiration, and CVV for each transaction to withdraw money from your account, so if those secret numbers are lost, someone can empty your account. 

With Bitcoin, it's akin to having a stack of cash locked in a safe.  If someone breaks into your house, and you have not secured the combination of the safe (written it down on a post-it stuck to the safe door) they can open the safe and steal your money.    With Bitcoin, if someone steals you key/passphrase (combination to the safe), and have access to your computer (are inside your house), they can open your wallet (safe) and steal your money. 

From a transaction perspective, Bitcoin traffic is fully public.  There are no secrets necessary.  There's simply no way to steal money by surreptitiously sniffing the network traffic.  

Something that many Bitcoin skeptics don't realize is that most money transactions are done via the CIRRUS, VISA, MC, AMEX payment networks now (Debit or credit).  These systems are ridiculous and insecure in their design as compared to Bitcoin.  Companies spend literally MILLIONS of dollars each to secure PCI data (credit card data), not counting the fees that the card brands and processors get back  (typically 1-3%, sometimes up to 8% - liquor stores!).  Bitcoin is essentially free by comparison. 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:06 | 4268697 Curt W
Curt W's picture

I am afraid we are going to have to restrict your access to your money.

it is for your own good.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:34 | 4268751 logicalman
logicalman's picture

Isn't everything TPTB do to us for our own good???!!!

Please tell me it's true!

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:58 | 4269374 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

It's for the cheeeeeldren.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 14:54 | 4268791 monad
monad's picture

This excellent book describes what probably happened to (boycott) Target: 

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 15:56 | 4268926 highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture

EBT processor?  First Christmas next Food?   Lagard IMF on MSM on economic issues.   Something is smelling with Yellen.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 16:02 | 4268934 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

"Steps" like capital controls, bail in's (isn't that what ObamaCare is?), are all ncessary in order to force social "diversity". Could not pay for it otherwise....


Sun, 12/22/2013 - 18:12 | 4269263 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

Personally reckon these limits are being set in place for something else.

Next ... shut bank branches no warning then declare the bailin with caps in place.

Cyprussed! Would not surprise me at all.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:31 | 4269754 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Probably just an Agency psy-ops to get rid of passwords and roll out the mandatory biometrics.  Between that and Obamacare your body belongs to them.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:39 | 4269769 Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

Well, I guess we know who did the hack now. Such sweet tempered bastards to pull the stunt at Christmas. Pull your cash out of the banks. Pay cash for your purchases. Fuck banksters.

Sun, 12/22/2013 - 22:40 | 4269773 Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

Oh yeah, and any government that supports them.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 04:26 | 4270228 redbird
redbird's picture

I have a CC with another big bank in the City.   It has a limit which is enough for me to pick up a new MBz for Chirstmas.  I've never used it.    Someone fraduantly had a nice dinner using my CC and I got a call from the bank right away.  Charges reversed.

This Target thing doesn't feel right to me.  Should have been cought much quicker given the number of accounts involved.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 08:10 | 4270380 jughead
jughead's picture

The only reason they caught it at all was because they found a huge batch of cards harvested at their stores available for sale.  

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