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Bill Gross Muses On Bitcoin, And Prosperity In A Time Of Central Planning Cholera

Tyler Durden's picture





 

It is not surprising that on one of the slowest days of the year, things are also so slow in Newport Beach that the bond king is prone to philosophize on matters such as Bitcoin, the gilded age, prosperity and what is so far missing.

 

 


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Mon, 12/23/2013 - 15:43 | Link to Comment FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Just like the artificial interest on those artificial bonds (full faith and credit, yadda, yadda, yadda) ... bond shill...

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 15:56 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Despite its wild volatility, teething problems and likely .gov attacks, I really hope that Bitcoin works out well.

EDIT:

Bitcoin for Beginners series ("reverse order"):

http://tinyurl.com/9hlvzdx

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:03 | Link to Comment jonytk
jonytk's picture

get bitcoins, yes,  buy low , sell high.

tip: (it's still high)

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 18:13 | Link to Comment ATM
ATM's picture

Money backed by nothing. Money made of nothing. Money where the promise is that they wont create any more. Have I heard that somewhere before?

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 21:53 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@ATM

Tell you what, I'll meet you halfway.

If at any point in the future, someone suggests a client 'fork' that allows more than 21 million bitcoins (and somehow gets all the clients globally to install it), I'll say "fuck you" and turn towards precious metals.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 18:20 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

"It's still high"

Difficult to judge, but one thing is certain (in my opinion of course): it's very high relative to other cryptocurrencies that for all practical purposes* offer the same value propositions.

* ya know, those real things that provide real fundamentals

Value is relative.  We all know that something is worth what someone else is willing to pay for it, and as a corrolary to price discovery there is also value discovery.  Part of value discovery is the availability of alternatives.  Pepsi might be worth $50 a bottle...except that you can also choose Coke, etc. 

As noted many times Btc has no intellectual property (as far as we know - and that could change if an owner wants to appear and assert ownership), and there is essentially zero barrier to entry for mycoin, yourcoin, Facecoin, iCoin, etc.

Btc's price will stabilize as competing cryptos emerge and are accepted, and it will be inversely proportional to the number of those cryptos.  Unfortunately, rule # 1 is that there are infinite competitors with zero barrier to entry except for the cost of promoting* its use.  Worsening that is the fact that end users and intermediaries can move from Btc to yourcoin to mycoin at no cost.  They are thusly not captive in any sense. 

* aye, it's marketing-based valuation.  whilst that might sound temptingly close to "market valuation" this ones a wee bit more fickle

Oh what to do if yourcoin has a better SuperBowl commercial, or has product placement in the next Star Wars movie, or has hotter babes (or bigger nerds?) or bigger celebs touting it?  Backstreet Boys were a hot ticket once upon a time.  Is that a fair analogy?  Well, it's not unfair.  (I'll avoid the pet rock, beanie baby, and navel lint analogies)

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 20:45 | Link to Comment lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

run with it baby. i hope more than anything that everyone on this planet becomes 'fulfilled'.  for those of you that still believe being infinitely rich means fullfillment, then go for it baby, as long as you don't hurt me.  and bitcoin doesn't hurt me or many others in the least.  bernake is bleeding me to DEATH with his fucking lying, and the next bitch won't be better.

so - as winkelvoss said - bitcoin to $40,000 - go for it.  i'm sure it's true.  doctor faustus got everything he wanted also, and then even more.

in the mean time, i'm happy that i've got the day off off on dec. 25 to spend a nice meal with some friends and family, and then back to the grind.

 

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:15 | Link to Comment Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

I apologize for the following revelation, but let it be noted that Bill Gross was outed as an insider when it was uncovered that him and Janet Yellen use the same Crystal bowl from tiffany's to facilitate their monastic hairstyle.

 

Sorry for ruining the holidays.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Spoiler: Santa doesn't exist, but Bitcoin does...

Expecting a bit of a slide into early January, then its the countdown to the next mega-rally, just like last time.

By the time Yellen starts QE 4-Ever, we should be on the way to more fun near the prior highs.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 22:21 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

I've heard the "just like last time" spiel more than a few times in these Btc threads.  ("Spiel" in the literal German sense of the word).

With such a short track record, I'd hesitate before investing based on that spiel.  Has it increased 200% after losing half its price?  Yep, but it's never lost and then recovered $7.5 billion in market cap before.  The most it's ever lost and then exceded in recovery is $253/Btc.  As of today it's biggest loss from peak is $619 and it's only recovered $100 of that.

As an aside, the # of Btc days destroyed in a single trading day does show some interesting correlation (albeit not perfect) with price drop.  For the big drops it's as if someone who's held a lot of Btc for a long time dumped them on the market ;)  Even with the early crashes it was the same, and early times there were fewer Btc and fewer Btc days.

http://blockchain.info/charts/bitcoin-days-destroyed

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 15:50 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Easy experiment:  Issue $1 million to every living person.

Corollary to the absurdity of the above experiment:  The 'false prosperity' will affect (afflict?) everything EXCEPT wages.

Which will, hither and thither, prove its own undoing.  Ironically, and inevitably, the mechanism of failure will indeed be via capital investment as Gross correctly notes.  But the symptom will be seen in wages, and demand, failing to respond. 

Both wages and real investment cannot be affected by mere sorcery.  Perhaps they will finally learn how much they have in common, and how little with the thieves running this particular theater.

As it ever was:

The Worm Ouroboros

The Alchemists' Quest

The Grail

The Golden Fleece

The Fountain of Youth

And on to the tulips and so forth in historic (rather than mythical) memory.

 

May the Lord have mercy upon our Republic in these dark times.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:00 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

this is a price control economy, in which the only thing that is not under price controls is wages, you have heard of the plan to raise the minimum wage, and or guarantee every american a living wage, or a minimum amount of money on which they can live?

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:21 | Link to Comment Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

this is fecal alchemy. TPTB turn valuable things into shit, to foster the illusion that what they give us has value.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 18:33 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

"you have heard of the plan to raise the minimum wage,..."

On Jan 1, 2014 the minimum wage in the State of Ohio rises to $7.85/hr.

Obama wants $9.00 nationwide? 

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 18:25 | Link to Comment forwardho
forwardho's picture

Re;

May the Lord have mercy upon our Republic in these dark times.

Expect no mercy from our Lord. We have, in greed and selfishness brought this upon ourselves. If you think you have no part in this, open your eyes, the very life you live depends on the artifice that this country can have something for nothing.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I know.  But, I still trust in His grace while acting in the world.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 15:57 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

bitcoin is an artificial currency, (for individuals to make transactions) while the feds qe money is artificial collateral, or wealth (for investment and debt creation - artificially created debt without offsetting currency transactions (sales and revenue) remains artificial. adding currency is inflationary. so far the Fed has made too much artificial debt, it now remains to be seen if free and open currency creation will cause enough inflation to give make that debt substantive. since the need for currency is limited by the number of transactions necessary, its very doubtful Bens artificial debt will ever be legitimized. pushing on the string never works even in this economy.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Speaking of currency, the Swiss vote to consider Bitcoin a currency is coming due. Should be a historic event, since it would be the first time a sovereign state granted a stateless system currency status.

 

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:00 | Link to Comment icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

There can be no real growth and investment as long as monetary policy directly causes capital destruction. And after they clear that hurdle, then there's the government fucking with everything you would possibly want to do, and taking 75% of the money if you manage to clear those obstacles and actually do something.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:06 | Link to Comment 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

"real growth" lol. now thats funny.  all we have left is asset bubbles to pretend there is some growth somewhere...

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:19 | Link to Comment post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

all prosperity is temporary... pro tip there, Bill

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:25 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

OOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK Bill, real growth and investment???

Ahem.

Pimco's Gross: Want to Make Money? Front-run the Central Banks

"Investors should buy Spanish and Italian debt or, in the U.S., they should look for mortgage-backed securities, as central banks are about to snap up such assets, said Bill Gross, founder of Pimco, manager of the world's largest bond fund."

http://www.newsmax.com/StreetTalk/Pimco-Gross-fed-ecb/2012/09/26/id/457730

"as central banks are about to snap up such assets, said Bill Gross" or in otherwords printing money out of thin air to create "real growth".

Yea, STFU.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Iam Yue2
Iam Yue2's picture


UK economy lies 'on bed of nitroglycerine' – Bill Gross

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 17:11 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I know "cheap shot on the holidays for a bond bull." All I have to say for myself is i'm just trying to measure up to the Master(s) of the (alternate) Universe(s). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai7M4RpoLU

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 17:24 | Link to Comment MieleBauknecht
MieleBauknecht's picture

Bitcoin is SHA256 based, and SHA256 is created by the NSA. They can print as much bitcoin as they want as they have a backdoor.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 21:48 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Meile-ein-klein-nacht-music

Yeah sure, people claiming Bitcoin is compromised willfully ignore that it would mean that their precious fiat is compromised, as the encrypted balances on your mega-bank's servers use the same thing.

Pick one, genius.

 

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 17:40 | Link to Comment countryboy42
countryboy42's picture

So, I guess the ones made by the Fed. should be refered to as "BitCon"?

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