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Is Las Vegas The Next Detroit?

Tyler Durden's picture


With still more than half the homeowners with a mortgage in the state of Nevada underwater on their mortage and a hoped for recovery in prices now petering out as 'investors' realize banks have completed foreclosures and are set to unload their huge inventories, fear is growing that Las Vegas (and for that matter Atlantic City) could be the next Detroit. However, as FoxNY reports, the nascent dreams of the good old days face an even bigger headwind - that of gambling regulation easements (online gambling for instance) and globalization which are impacting their biggest industries. Time will tell if these two cities will end up like Detroit.


Via FoxNY,

With the closure of the recent Atlantic Club Casino Hotel, rumors of the bankrupt Revel being sold to Hard Rock, more than half of the mortgages in Las Vegas under water, casinos opening up all around the country and online gambling legislation underway in various states, it seems as if the reasons for the very existence of Atlantic City and Las Vegas are in serious jeopardy.




However in the late 1980s, a landmark ruling considered Native-American reservations to be sovereign entities not bound by state law. It was the first potential threat to the iron grip Atlantic City and Vegas had on the gambling and entertainment industry.




Then Macau, formally a colony of Portugal, was handed back to the Chinese in 1999. The gambling industry there had been operated under a government-issued monopoly license by Stanley Ho's Sociedade de Turismo e Diversões de Macau. The monopoly was ended in 2002 and several casino owners from Las Vegas attempted to enter the market.


Under the one country, two systems policy, the territory remained virtually unchanged aside from mega casinos popping up everywhere. All the rich ‘whales’ from the far east had no reason anymore to go to Las Vegas to spend their money.




Then came their biggest threat.


As revenue from dog and horse racing tracks around the United States dried up, government officials needed a way to bring back jobs and revitalize the surrounding communities. Slot machines in race tracks started in Iowa in 1994 but took off in 2004 when Pennsylvania introduced ‘Racinos’ in an effort to reduce property taxes for the state and to help depressed areas bounce back.


As of 2013, racinos are legal in ten states: Delaware, Louisiana, Maine, New Mexico, New York, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and West Virginia




From June 2012 to June 2013, Aqueduct matched a quarter of Atlantic City's total gaming revenue from its dozen casinos: $729.2 million compared with A.C.'s $2.9 billion. It has taken an estimated 15 percent hit on New Jersey casino revenue and climbing.




The situation in Vegas isn't much better. The Great Recession of the late 2000s hit Las Vegas hard. As the recession wore on, and as gambling received approval in various jurisdictions throughout the United States, folks realized they didn't need to travel thousands of miles just to gamble.




More than half of all home owners with a mortgage in the entire state of Nevada owe more than their homes are worth.




But according to this so-called bubble is simply from banks completing their foreclosures and holding onto inventory.  The increased value of properties has been attracting various investors and speculators, which is helping fuel this latest rise in real estate prices. 


Experts say once banks start releasing the foreclosed homes into the market to start selling them, the prices may begin to get depressed again.




One local said “The reality is, people just won’t fly to the middle of a desert to play some slots, watch shows and sit down for some blackjack when they can drive right near their town or city, or play legally online.”


And now it looks like the feds may soon allow online gambling across the United States.




With this in mind, it seems the niche that Las Vegas and Atlantic City once offered as a gambling and entertainment hub is heading toward the dustbin of history.


Time will tell if these two cities will end up like Detroit. However, the fact that they are losing their biggest industries to major competition, much like Detroit did, with depressed housing, casinos bankrupting/closing and businesses fleeing, makes their fate seem eerily similar.


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Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:03 | Link to Comment SafelyGraze
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this is why it's more important than ever to go back to school and get your masters degree

even if you have to borrow money

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:12 | Link to Comment Atlas_shrugging
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Anyone figure out how to X out the Blackrock banner ad yet? Hate these guys

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:20 | Link to Comment Stackers
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Over specialization is the shortest path to extinction.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:24 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
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Meamwhile Barrack-Hussein Sends Kisses From Sunny/Warm Hawai...

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Never One Roach
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"Just walk away." Pass the losses onto someone else. It's the red-blooded American thing to do these days, sorry to say.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:01 | Link to Comment Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

The 2 things that haunt homeowners in Vegas

1. Sure you can have a 1mm mortgage making $50k a year working the tables.

2. Housing can only go up!.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:05 | Link to Comment BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

Vegas is the perfect landscape for a post apocalyptic Mad Max style world after it is Detroited.  Giant pyramids and casinos in a desert, the pictures will be something spectacular.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:16 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I think those assless chaps will do better in Vegas than in Detroit in winter as well.


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:38 | Link to Comment mmanvil74
mmanvil74's picture

What a poor excuse for an article - pure fluff, a few random statistics, then some speculative dramatic conclusion, with no real evidence.  I am starting to lose respect for ZH, constantly fear mongering while helping its readers miss the greatest stock market bull run in decades.  Although most of the fluff is provided by "FoxNY" - a fine example of real journalism I am sure, ZH still holds responsibility for fitering out the BS which it has failed to do in this case.  This article ignores the 40,000,000 visitors Las Vegas attracts every year, and no, gambling at some racino in Ohio is not anything like going to Las Vegas.  The writer either doesn't gamble, has never been to Las Vegas or both.  

Vegas numbers are up in every way, number of visitors, gambling revenues... home prices are up 40% from the bottom yet they are still cheaper than almost any major city worldwide outside of Africa.  Will there be a dip in home prices when the next (final) wave of foreclosures hit, yeah, probably, which will be the last chance to buy undervalued real estate with cap rates around 9%.  Vegas was one of the fastest growing cities for decades because of low taxes compared to California, great climate, Mexican friendly, and, sorry to say it but a gambling economy is probably more stable than auto manufacturing in USA which will never again be a growth industry in America, at least gambling appeals to the Americans that are too lazy to do anything else, sure there is Macau but how many people will want the Chinese version.  People from all over the world go to Vegas for conventions and entertainment, which makes Vegas one of the world's biggest cities for business travel.  

This article is completely off base and, while it is easy to spread doom and gloom about just anything you like, it is harder to be optimistic on this site which is why I am tuning in less and less to ZH and so should you.  

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:51 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

One word:  Water.

Vegas requires disposable income to survive.  And that is a long slow grind downwards.  A downward spiral if you will.  (thanks NIN)

Sure many have missed the "greatest stock market bull run" but many here are not gamblers.  And that is what stocks have turned into.  BTFD, BTFATH, etc.

Our entire nation has come to require the support of a private central bank printing money to increase debt.  That and government backing student loans.

Take those away and we have been dead in the water for years.

Look at it as a heart lung machine and feeding tube for a patient.  Would not really call the patient thriving.  Except when you consider what would have happened if those things had not been done.

To each his own though. I for one just cannot fake it.  I see the over leveraged again having the (borrowed) times of their lives.  

As for data, it is very difficult to discern what is real and what is because of the printing. Vegas RE?  That is just where big money is parked cause that is the only thing that will result in yield.  Even the smallest things are tough to accurately assess.  My BIL was talking about one small town near him. He figured that ~40% of the town lives solely because of transfer payments. 

In short, you can put a rug over a turd, but you cannot make the turd go away without bucking up and cleaning it.

And we keep needing bigger rugs!


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:09 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Vegas is located in one of the least livable places on Earth.  WATER is a resource in short supply (falling water levels in Lake Mead meant a new water tunnel was needed to feed Vegas and THAT will only last so long)  ELECTRICITY to power all that air conditioning is another resource that is in ever shorter supply.  Falling water levels mean less electricity can be produced by Hoover Dam.   MONEY - 'disposable income' that can be lost at casinos for 'entertainment' purposes is in ever shorter supply among middle class Americans (those big Asian 'whales' are now going to Macao and the Arabs are going to London and elsewhere).  Not to mention ENERGY - the crowds in Vegas have to FLY or DROVE there - and boith are becoming more expensive.

So.... it looks like a speck in the middle of the desert will be returning to its roots.    At least Detroit has water (though Vegas probably has a bigger gang problem - since it has more people - something they don't talk much about because they don't want to scare off the tourists).  One last point - ther eare no 'good' and 'bad' neighborhoods in Vegas - you can have a gated few blocks next door to a trailer park - ALL neighborhoods (and by extension, schools) are pretty marginal.

and except for gambling - the same can be said for much of the sunbelt.  Without water and cheap electricity, places like Tuscon become miserable pretty fast.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:45 | Link to Comment MachoMan
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Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:49 | Link to Comment Freddie
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MONEY - 'disposable income' that can be lost at casinos for 'entertainment' purposes is in ever shorter supply among middle class Americans (those big Asian 'whales' are now going to Macao and the Arabs are going to London and elsewhere). Not to mention ENERGY - the crowds in Vegas have to FLY or DROVE there - and boith are becoming more expensive.



I had to go to that shithole in 2013.  First time and hopefully last time.   I am not sure where the money comes from. I thought the supply of suckers with money left was shrinking but they were all over the place but it cannot last.

Vegas draw used to be cheap food and cheap hotels.  Neither one is cheap anymore.  Even the cheaper hotels are not that cheap. I hate big hotels because you are miles away from an exit, which creeps me out.

The shows?  Idiots travel to see third rate entertainment and D list celebs.  Some Beatles review with Cirque De Soleil?  WTF?  Will they have Martians doing Broadway musicals next?  Maybe they can DNA sequence The Rat Pack and bring em back from the dead.

And at night in the summer, it is 105 degrees at 11 pm.

People are fools.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:35 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Vegas, Palm springs, and Phoenix...why are the greenest golf courses in the middle of the effing desert?

Artificially cheap water?

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Competely off base? I would think not. (ZIRP, QE to infinity, no growth, steady inflation, high UE, 30 low in labor force, etc...)

Great climate? I would think not. (unless you can stand 115 outside for months on end).

I don't what's worse, people complaining that ZH sucks now or that people have their head up their ass on the economic and financial collapse we are in right now.

The fucking stock market is your benchmark of health? God help you if you're that incredibly stupid...



Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:09 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

I  agree this site is non stop doom and gloom. 5 things to ponder,7 things to worry about. this chart should really scare you etc. Look at the titles of the articles. Yes zerohedge has been completely wrong on all markets since I have been here. It's like the National Enquirer of the financial world.

This article on Vegas is just more sensational, inaccurate nonsense. I don't have the time to rebuff the nonsense in this article. I have lived in Vegas, and I am going back soon. it is a great town.

Look how each article is worded always with a question.

Should you be worried?

Could this happen?

Just fearmongering, By reading this site YOU have YOUR head in the sand. Meanwhile the markets are doing what they do and YOU are left at the station.

Meanwhile YOU think you are getting the inside scoop ha,ha.

Name anything zerohedge has called correctly. Oh and many of the contributors are total fruitcakes or conspiracy nuts.


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:38 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture thing correctly? How about dozens of calls you never get with other sources....from HFT to algos to Wall St corruption to SEC and CTFC regulatory capture to gov't statistical lies via hedonic adjustments, etc....shall I go on?

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 15:16 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

Just gossip. How has any of that info helped you make money. All just conjecture and conspiracy theories.

It's designed to make you think you are in the know. When in fact it tells you nothing of value.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Rantabulous
Rantabulous's picture

Even if you are completely correct, is ZH not at least the lesser of two evils?

The MSM would have you believe that the next 20 years will be like the last 20 years. Ups and downs, but no real problems, plenty of winners to be picked if you work hard.

I don't believe that. I agree there is a lot of doom and gloom, and certainly a lot fruitcakes that frequent ZH, but the MSM crowd are just an insanity asylum.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 15:11 | Link to Comment bentaxle
bentaxle's picture

"The markets are doing what they do...." you'll be right at home in Vegas!


A conspiracy nut, or maybe a fruitcake. (I prefer conspiracy nut.)

PS, just one thing. If Vegas is so great and you know it so well, did the recession hit hard or has it been anything but, a beacon of prosperity?

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:36 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

Yes the recession hit Vegas hard. Some the malls off the strip, they are empty except for Walmart, the last cockrouch to leave the ship.

However Vegas has a history of reinventing itself the Art district down to Freemont is a hive of activity. Apple have set up opperations there.

Vegas baby Vegas!

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:37 | Link to Comment BostonBill99
BostonBill99's picture

Manvill you are WAY off base.  Per the Las Vegas Convention Authority, visitor volume is down overall 1.4%.  Lodging occupancy is down overall.  Convention attendance is up, but the convention count is down.  And gaming revenue is down.  As a programmer, Vegas was the mecca for software conferences.  But when a buffet costs you $36 bucks each, and a drink by the pool is $24, it is easy for the company to say "Ah, no.  You're not going this year."  Within 3 years, Vegas will be a ghost town, just like Detroit.  And they have nothing but their greed as the reason.  

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:47 | Link to Comment Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Dont confuse these guys with any facts bro, it ruins their good high of BlowHorn [CNBC] propaganda, a dose of Cog Dis and a splash of denial.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:23 | Link to Comment Tall Tom
Tall Tom's picture

Vegas numbers are up in every way,


Yes they are..Casino DEBT is up from overexpansion and many of those corporations are in trouble.


Without Casino Revenue, without tax revenue from the Casinos, with BANKRUPT CASINOS, the State of Nevada goes Bankrupt.


If you want optimism then tune into the MSM. I want the Truth no matter how dismal that it may read.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Pragmatically speaking, Detroit was run by liberals. Nevada (and Clark County, Las Vegas) is mostly conservative. But  a few more points:

Las Vegas also is where a lot of "flees" live; these are folks who run from other areas of the country, usually west of the Mississippi, where they can go to school and get a job for 65K dealing blackjack.

The underwater mortgages are just like most parts of the country. Vegas just has constricted supply purposely and there are other games being played that restrict supply to hit the market. For example, a bank principal must sign personally if they foreclose and assume all that liability. With many ambulance chasers around, this isn't a very attractive plan.

The schools do suck, but so do the parents and it is the land of the fast money. High school dropout rates are very high, why finish school when you can park cars for 100K per year?

However, on a comparitive basis, there have been Arizona Charlies and other CA-based hotel casinos that don't seemingly knock off any traffic at all. Its still a destination for the upper middle class and wealthy. The "Cooler Crowd" that this article refers to don't usually come out to spend money at high-end clubs and shopping. When some hotels were literally giving away rooms during 2009 after O said "you don't go to vegas" rant, it attracted the lowest common denominator.

I'm pretty bullish on the gaming in Las Vegas. But I don't expect the guy who is Joe Sixpack to come out here often. In fact, he probably never will. That's a whole different demographic that not even the old Vegas hotels want. They'd rather have the locals.  

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:27 | Link to Comment BaBaBouy
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Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:23 | Link to Comment ImReady
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Chrome + AdBlock Plus= WIN

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:36 | Link to Comment Headbanger
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Firefox + Ghostery = No Banners

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 22:50 | Link to Comment Curiously_Crazy
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Firefox + Ghostery +noscript + Httpseverywhere + foxyproxy = no banners or adds of any kind, no tracking, safer browsing.

People say I've gone overboard but sometimes going overboard before the ship sinks and sucks you down with it is the way to go.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:55 | Link to Comment richsob
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Download Ghostery to your browser.  It's the best thing I've ever added to my computer.  It cuts out all the crap like the ad you don't like and it lets you control if you want to go ahead and see something (such as the comments section after reading an article in the newspaper, etc.) but it doesn't screw with how your browser operates.  And it stops the worry of people tracking your internet movements (like Google, stores and other website love to do).  It's free.  I've been using it for about 3 years and wouldn't live without it.  Here's the URL:

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:56 | Link to Comment U4 eee aaa
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No script on the firefox browser

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:39 | Link to Comment Mayflower
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Ghostery will stop the ads

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:05 | Link to Comment ThorAss
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I do it through my security software Trend Micro by blocking At least I think that's what's doing it. It could also be by region. Or my good looks.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:08 | Link to Comment stutes33
stutes33's picture

slow news day

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:00 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Not for 3D-printed guns.  I just ran across this.  Fully 3D printed METAL 1911... no serial numbers, no machine work done to it afterwards:

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:43 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Will still be some time before quality is there...  it will be great though when a machine is affordable...  or a few folks could go in on one and split time... 

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:08 | Link to Comment firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

But..but..but...CNBC said all is well in Las Vegas, and that they were the example of the recovery.  Well at least the latter is still true.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:28 | Link to Comment suteibu
suteibu's picture

It was a good run for Vegas.  The old Chicago mob built it, the new Chicago mob destroyed it.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:32 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Is Las Vegas The Next Detroit? 

It's a bigger dump than that!

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:28 | Link to Comment philosophers bone
philosophers bone's picture

Pitbull Pool Parties at the Bellagio

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:10 | Link to Comment J S Bach
J S Bach's picture

Vegas will always have an allure for the real gambler.  However, the casinos will have to cut their room rates by at least half if they're going to attract the common sucker Joe Sixpack anymore.


It's fun to go there, but I wouldn't want to live in the middle of a desert.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:28 | Link to Comment Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Yea, I'd like to see a chart of room rates.

Used to be dirt cheap to get a hotel there for non high rollers, inflation accounted for.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

"It ain't" cheap anymore.   I stayed at a decent place (3 to 3.5 stars) that has low rates to attract gamblers.  They then hit you with a resort fee.  The food is not cheap either and forget about drink prices.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:50 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

One unappreciated thing that makes Las Vegas suck - it's windy there all the time. Hot, dusty wind. Of course, I guess most people don't spend any time outside anyway, because it's so fucking hot, so maybe the wind isn't that big a deal.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:11 | Link to Comment Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Can't POSident Oblowhard just impose a Gambling In Vegas Mandate and save the city?  Surely the SCOTUS shitheads will find it constitutional.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:10 | Link to Comment digitlman
digitlman's picture

ObamaGamble: Everybody must spend 10% of their yearly income in Vegas or face a tax?

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Smegley Wanxalot
Smegley Wanxalot's picture

Exactly.  Unless you belong to a union and pay him off for an exemption.


C'mon now, roll the dice.  Time to play some Obamacraps.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:45 | Link to Comment Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture


Which happens every time he opens his mouth. I know the Tylers provide his teleprompted wonderfulness as a public service, but I seriously have to block my hurl gene with some serious Jedi mind tricks to even gaze upon him for more than a minute or two.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:40 | Link to Comment drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

You ain't justa shittin.  Fuk that arrogant, narcissist lying illegal alien muslim w a wookie

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:53 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

One good thing from this, IT may just cost REID his career.


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:01 | Link to Comment Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

If you call trashing the Constitution a career. Good riddance, I sez.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:18 | Link to Comment Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

I am sure the SEC, through some loophole, could put in place protections (bailouts) to the casinos.  Afterall, Las Vegas is the main street's Wall street.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:15 | Link to Comment papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Online gambling....the new way to separate the poor from what money they don't have. Watch for a spike in credit card use followed by delinquency rise then default.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:19 | Link to Comment Mad Mohel
Mad Mohel's picture

The fuckers are resorting to the Scatino Bust Out method. That tells you all you need to know.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:17 | Link to Comment pan
pan's picture


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:27 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the gals have already moved on to North Dakota. "where they go the Party follows." I agree the water situation is fer real as well. "all liquidity (stimulus? really?) is drying up" it would seem.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:17 | Link to Comment NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Lack of water will kill that place long before lack of gambling revenues.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:17 | Link to Comment orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

Hey, it's warm there in the winter!!!!

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

Las Vegas makes Scottsdale and even Albuqueque look like heaven on earth.


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:18 | Link to Comment duo
duo's picture

The Choctaw casino an hour North of Dallas is pretty impressive for being in the middle of nowhere.  It certainly would suffice for a gambling alternative, and the entertainment is getting better.  Heck, if you're into old school (think Prince) Morris Day and the Time are playing there NYE.


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:46 | Link to Comment Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Man, this will date me, but I just had a strong image of Daniel Boone -- as played by Fess Parker -- saunter through my mind when I read the word "Choctaw" in your post. He used to name that Indian tribe at least once per episode it seemed.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:19 | Link to Comment FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

I watched that every Sunday morning. It was followed by Big Valley.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:19 | Link to Comment stock trout
stock trout's picture

When prostitution is made legal in other states, turn out the lights the party's over. 

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:18 | Link to Comment FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

...or maybe the party's just begun!

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:25 | Link to Comment Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

Las Vegas shot itself in the foot years ago when the casino owners decided to try to appeal to family vacationers. Instead of keeping it classy ( and slightly naughty), the casinos have become the Walmarts of gambling. 

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:39 | Link to Comment buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

YEP. They turned that town into a tourist trap and family amusement park. You can't get a drink at the games, the employees are snotty and bitter... Night clubbing twenty somethings, photo snapping tourists, and stroller pushing family men don't gamble for shit. The foot traffic is just useless eaters milling around the buffet all day and crowding out the real gamblers at every turn. I left three days early last time and won't be back EVER.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:52 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

True that.  I was just there last month and I felt like I was at the county fair.  Fat rednecks walking around with fanny packs and cocktails in huge 3-foot-bong looking cups.  People used to walk around Vegas dressed to the nines and engaging in slightly sinful behavior, but now it's just Wally World.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

Walk inland 2 blocks from the boardwalk and Atlantic City easily rivals the worst ghettos of Detroit. Been that way for 40-odd years.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:25 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Time for Barry to roll out SGAP (Supplemental Gambling Assistance Program).

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:26 | Link to Comment insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

In the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts the voters voted to allow casinos but each time a developer finds a place to build one, the town votes against having a casino.  Typical libs, oh that is a great idea; wait, it is going to impact me; never mind.  See casinos, prisons, low income housing, and wind farms off Cape Cod.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:22 | Link to Comment GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

As the songwriter Phil Ochs once stated, liberals are 10 degrees to the left of center in good times, 10 degrees to the right of center when it affects them personally.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:00 | Link to Comment Casserole of no...
Casserole of nonsense's picture

Only liberals are nimbys. You know, like Donald Trump.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:19 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

I "ain't" no lib and I hate casinos.  The whole damn country is turning into Potterville but it seems like the idiots do not care. 

Gambling is sinful but flipping condos and Wall Street speculation is ok (sarc)

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:25 | Link to Comment q99x2
q99x2's picture

Chinese be fixen to have some of that.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:28 | Link to Comment GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

If things really do collapse and things get dicey and really ugly, Vegas could turn into a nightmare that hollywood's horror and apocalyptic movies haven't imagined yet. Wait until it's thousands of people in an unsustainable desert city fighting over food instead of Air Jordan sneakers. It could make Detroit look like a cakewalk.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:31 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

dont forget the water............there is no water.........

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:48 | Link to Comment Solarman
Solarman's picture

LOL, Las Vegas sits on a huge Aquifer with water trapped from the mountains to it's north.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Some people already have a plan for that eventuality. They will hike, as did their forefathers, to a place of refuge. This time they will follow I-15 northeast to St. George, UT, and environs.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:34 | Link to Comment hoist the bs flag
hoist the bs flag's picture

they will hike..wearing air jordans

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:27 | Link to Comment WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

"Compition is sin" rockefeller

Compition is Evolution

To bad so sad Vegas you had a good run



Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:35 | Link to Comment mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Couldn't happen to a nicer city. Vegas sucks.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:46 | Link to Comment gafgroocK
gafgroocK's picture



I call the Pyramid!


Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:55 | Link to Comment Meat Hammer
Meat Hammer's picture

I call the hookers!

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:57 | Link to Comment falak pema
falak pema's picture

Is Sheldon Adelson moving definitely to Macao?

the Sands disappears into the sands; he lost his big play for Madrid that one arm bandit with teeth like jaws!

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 10:59 | Link to Comment Rukeysers Ghost
Rukeysers Ghost's picture

I find the premise that Vegas might be the next Detroit absurd. Vegas is more than just gambling and from what I can see, these new casinos in the various states are populated with low level degenerate gamblers and ne'er do wells who wouldn't travel to Vegas anyway.

New casinos are not taking away from Vegas and AC. They are expanding the pool of dopes trying to hit it rich on a pair of 2's.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:28 | Link to Comment TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

They are expanding the pool of dopes trying to hit it rich on a pair of 2's.


Sounds like the same dopes playing the rigged western financial markets.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:12 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Vegas...Indian Reservations...Online gambling...Lotterys...all for the poor folk to waste their money on for a quick rich scheme....and they waste it big time...the Politicians love it because they get a cut of it...its a crap sandwich and the world would be better off without it...all of it

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:20 | Link to Comment smcapmachine
smcapmachine's picture

Top 5 worst zerohedge article ever

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:20 | Link to Comment TalkToLind
TalkToLind's picture

Las Vegas was "Detroit" before Detroit was, it just didn't get reported in the MSM.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:32 | Link to Comment hoist the bs flag
hoist the bs flag's picture

this is nonsense...everyone knows the quality of blow and hookers is better in Las Vegas...the only thing in Detroit you can gamble with is your life.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 11:37 | Link to Comment 10mm
10mm's picture

Fucking sad when govt pushes gambling.Weather Wall St or online or chessy casinos we are a true misfit nation that deserves what we get.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:14 | Link to Comment FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

My state pushes lottery tickets and has a monopoly on the sale of liquor. "Way to go Ohio"...My City Was Gone:

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:05 | Link to Comment irongator
irongator's picture

Maybe, just maybe, things are beginning to reset to a sane equilibrium. That is the state where they should be, without all the debt-fueled consumerism that started the out of control spiral sometime in the 90s (arguable). Could it be possible that we avoid meltdown, and just enter a period of stagnation that resets us to where we should be? I hope.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:52 | Link to Comment SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture



Jesus !

Give me a melt DOWN, so a recovery is probable  .

Want stagnation, never ending Japanese island style?

US is already mired in stagnation, beyond nominal manipulation flak.

F stagnation, bring forth EVOLUTION;  now .

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Your Creator
Your Creator's picture

Government is pushing gambling to make more people dependant on the government.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:33 | Link to Comment Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

By the time I came of age, Vegas was well on its way to opening the floodgates for screaming brats and $.01 slots.

I have been to Las Vegas (1) time - and I have lived in California for (27) years - it was in 2003, I spent $70 for a steak dinner on a layover on the way to Albuquerque, everyone at the steakhouse had their fucking hand out for a propina, slot machines all over the airport, I will never go back unless it is to play poker and someone pays my way from door to door.

American casinos are as depressing like slaughterhouses - they smell like death - half-dead grannies throwing their pennies and nickels down,gumming the free breakfasts, loading & offloading buses ... it can dry up and blow away.

For mainland Chinese, LV is a must-go when they come over. 

Macau is even more vapid culturally - if you can imagine that. 

Other than a poker game, casinos hold no interest for me and Macau for all its square footage offers only (2) Casinos with poker tables.

The Chinese don't like poker, prefer Baccarat and other games with a lot of flashbang and no requirement for strategy.  I went to the Wynn in Macau last time, two active tables, almost all white boys.  4-hour wait for a seat.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 12:56 | Link to Comment SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Forget Vegas, their prices have dropped to building costs, they can't drop much more, LA on the other hand is totally insane, not the new Detroit but the new Tijuana.

Vegas is positioned for a great resurgence to capitalize on escaping Californians.

Imagine the horror if NV decided to oppose Obamacare and become a medical care cost-shift defiance state and loot the other 49 states of medical care tax revenue.

"You keep all the diabetic illegals we'll take all your doctors , staffs, and equipment and premiums"


How the Socialist criminal invasion with the medical care cost shift working C



Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:09 | Link to Comment FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

I think another important factor in the decline in Vegas may be that the main demographic for gambling got hit hardest by the recession. Besides the occaissional dbag "high roller", most patrons are just working stiffs trying to feel big for a day or two. They haven't seen a wage increase in decades and have no money left. Forgot to mention the retirees with their white patent leather shoes and polyester slacks who are being financially repressed by the Fed. What is a good short position for Vegas?

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 13:59 | Link to Comment acousticide
acousticide's picture

I live here in Las Vegas, for 30 years now, and I am witness to this decline. I took a beating on my house and rent now. I work for the most popular casino on the strip, and there is virtually no business except for weekends. It is definitely time to get out of this town.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:17 | Link to Comment W74
W74's picture

Detroit?  No.  That would be like saying Iowa will be like Liberia in the coming years.  Jaurez?  Maybe.  I can see Vegas turning into another Jaurez or Laredo as gangs fight over housing scraps and control over hooker and blow territories.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 14:41 | Link to Comment Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

Their "ace in the hole" will be allowing the burial of nuke waste.

Detroit may beat them to it.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 15:23 | Link to Comment TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

Just made my biannual 2 night stop in Vegas early December.


Shopping malls are busy with I assume to be locals... everyone carrying shopping bags to a fulll parkade.

Hotel prices at the four star hotels I tend to frequent are as low as they have ever been for this time period. You get dinged 22 bucks a night extra on a forty dollar four star room. The buffets still suck and the better restaraunts are still pricey. Those that depended on corporate Platinum card funded  epicurean indulgences are shut down or at least slow... the sommelier seemns to be an endangered species.

Those new developments never finished are still there.. in worse shape than ever before... fountainbleu, town center projects. Condo prices seem to be going down again on top of declining volume... doesn't matter to me though, I'm even less likely to buy a 2nd home there now than I was before.Previous observations about gated communities surrounded by properties on the decline are true. I wouldn't raise a kid in this town even if I had one available.

Downtown and peripheral casino hotels seem to be capturing the lion share of the smoking, drinking gambling crowd. South Pointe wass packed with the rodeo crowd and the main Stip hotel casinos wer like morgues (mid week at least).

Headline entertainment was the Jersey Boys and coming soon... Celine Dion Recycled.

Make of this what you will...

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:45 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

One thing I like about Vegas is not much traffic on the freeways. It's like driving in the 50's. It's easy to get around, and parking is free! How many cities can you say that about.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 16:43 | Link to Comment xxxxx
xxxxx's picture

Vegas is not Detroit

Vegas is Capitalism incarnate, If thrives on creative destruction.

Mon, 12/23/2013 - 23:43 | Link to Comment Dr. Bonzo
Dr. Bonzo's picture

My first trip to Macau was back in '96. It was total a total shithole. Lifted straight from a Chow Yun Fat gangster flick. About half-a-dozen casinos, all were run-down local affairs Made for Chinese Run by Chinese with heavy overt triad influences. I think I stayed less than half a day and never thought I'd be back.

The arrival of the Americans in the early 00's completely transformed the place. Macua is actually very, very small. The original town was no more than a few city blocks. When the Americans showed up they ran out of space almost immediately. Adelson cracked open the Taipa district, the half of Macau that was basically nothing but rice fields, and started the Venetian on that side of the mud. Macau basically exploded. In addition to the mega casinos, hundreds of new Hong Kong-style mega apartment complexes sprung up, and once once the mainland Chinese started arriving in big numbers they were off to the races.

Macau trips these days are interesting. Sort of like Vegas. You go to take in the entire freak show. The garishness, the fakery, the bullshit. The Venetian is stupendous, even by American standards. The casino floor is reportedly 26 footballs fields in size, something like 800 tables and several thousand slot machines. When the place is packed, your talking 10-20,000 mainland Chinese peasants chainsmoking away crowding around baccarat tables watching the fish loose their annual wages to the house. The serious money-laundering takes place upstairs in the luxury suites far away from the crowds. The best shot you'll ever get of high party commie bosses is their tinted window limos flashing by.

The American casino-slash-entertainment concept so far seems completely lost on the Chinese. While the air in the casinos is blue from the chain-smoling masses, the luxury shopping arcade and malls upstairs are nearly deserted, most of the shows and venues are attened by Hongkies or the handful of foreigners. Macau used to basically exist off of Hongkers gambling... now, as soon as you jump off the ferry from Central-to-Taipa... its nothing but Mandarin yabbering peasants.

Hint for travelers: Macau's main attraction... the Portuguese restaurants tucked away in all the back corners of the place. Rinky dink hard-to-find places, they'll be packed with a few local Portuguese holdovers, investment banker scum and Hong Kong foodies.

My best time in Macau was in '09 right after the crash. Whole place was a ghost town. Even the Venetian casino floor was only half-full, dormant construction projects rotted away and if southern China had tumbleweed it would have been blowing down the empty avenues of Taipa. Had a blast that trip. Can't wait for the next crash. I'm goin straight back to Macau to laugh my ass off at the sheer insanity of it all.


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