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Bitcoin Vs Twitter

Tyler Durden's picture





 

One of these is an "asset" that produces no profit based on an underlying architecture with low barriers to entry,  the other is a virtual currency... and remember: Bitcoin has no intrinsic value, doesn't trade at 1000x 2013 (or 340x 2014) EBITDA, and is nowehere near 40x it next year's revenues. It is, after all, simply a non-fiat currency. Which is why it is a bubble, and why, according to experts, Twitter is a screaming buy.

 

Spot The Bubble...

 

What a difference a little propaganda makes?

 


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Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:31 | Link to Comment StacksOnStacks
StacksOnStacks's picture

Fonestar in 3... 2... 1...

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Happy Holidays, bitchez!!

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:47 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Both are bubbles.  The bitcoin chart looks UUUUGLY.  Double top, HS pattern with a falling wedge.  Fonestar is absent for a reason.  In all fairness, BTC had a rise of 250+% while TWTR has only gone up 85+%.

 

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

Likely fonestar has no power - ice storms ya know.

Merry Christmas Stackers

 

Stack On

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:23 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

LOL... Bitcoin is a scam! A Ponzi! NO, it's a bubble! NO, it's the NSA! Wait....

Witches! Yes! Witches brewed it up!

Hysteria on parade.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:45 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

...and Dragons!

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:01 | Link to Comment Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Fuck "Happy Holidays!"

It's MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS, BITCHEZ!

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:23 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

Christmas is for silly christians. There are far better religions out there.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 21:07 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

FAR better?
Less offensive perhaps, to society, but all equally offensive in the face of science, logic & fact.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:53 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

Fone-sex-star is probably busy selling all his excess stuff on Craigslist, so he can buy more bitcoin.

I think the kid is investing wisely...

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:05 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Let me rephrase:  Both are financial bubbles, not sociological misfits.  Both represent societal change and innovation that is truly needed and wanted.  Problem is that the bankers have brought them under their control umbrella, by "brokering" value.  How can you place a value on freedom of speech and monetary exchange?

So both are financial bubbles, ruined by being aligned with corrupt and crooked banksters.  That's what you get for placing monetary value on sociological change that is truly desired and badly needed.

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:56 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

"How can you place a value on freedom of speech...?"

Freedom?  You mean this kind:

'Duck Dynasty': Twitter apologizes for 'mistakenly' blocking IStandWithPhil.com

"...the blocking of the IStandWithPhil.com site appeared to be intentional, noting that Twitter also blocked links in two other pro-Robertsonsocial media campaigns."

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=844851

Freedom to engage in state-approved speech.  Uh huh.  Next the state will to have the authority to decide who is a journalist.   Oh, wait, trial balloon already floated.

http://www.projectveritas.com/the-government-wants-to-decide-who-is-a-journalist-and-who-isnt/

Next you'll need a permit to dissent.

Here's some dissent:  *UCK THE *AGGOTS AND *UCK THE *ATANIC *EWS WHO'VE SUCCEEDED IN PROMOTING THE DEGENERACY TO THE POINT WHERE ABBERANT IS NOW NORMAL.  UP IS DOWN AND DOWN IS UP.

SORRY FOR THE *'S; MY PERMIT RAN OUT THIS WEEK. 

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 00:21 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

You wanna really compare another web application to a novel and innovative cryptographic protocol?

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:44 | Link to Comment Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Bitcoin + Twitter = Bitter Twitcoin

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

As it has been said, many times, just after the "Gold Parity" event - it is EXPECTED for prices to fall after they fail to conform to an exponential growth curve. This is now the FOURTH time it has happened, so we are very aware of what the following pattern is.

However, every time must be new for the barking seal trolls - or they have no memory - because it is usually seized upon as unrefuteable proof that Bitcoin is "doomed" or "dead".

The more prudent are waiting for the eventual trough, (No, no "dollar cost averaging" like some STAWKS moron), where the buy orders will flow and the base for the next surge past Gold Parity will begin anew.

Now time to get some booze for the holiday party...

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:24 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Exactly.  Find a ponzi scheme which collapsed and recovered multiple times.  You can't.  It's called a bull market.  All aboard!

The Bitcoin Channel

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Booze acquired - now time for a Bitcoin Christmas tale:

It was a few days before christmas, when all through the mall
not a shopper was stirring, having been tapped out in fall;

Firearms were hung by the bunker door with fear, in hopes
the world's ending would soon appear;

The brokers were nestled all snug in their beds, smiling as
another client was burned instead;

Yellen in her robe, and Bernanke in his cap,
had just settled down for some printing tip chat;

When out in the street there arose such a yammer,
Bernanke shoved Yellen, to see what was the matter;

Away to the printer he flew like a flash,
Tore open the out bin and threw up the cash;

When, what to his quantatative eyes should appear,
but good old Satoshi and his software engineers;

More rapid than HFT his miners they came,
to verify the blockchain and make sure things were sane;

Up to the top of the charts, the valuation flew,
and the wealth went global, to poor people too;

Bernanke was aghast, Yellen agape,
this Bitcoin it seemed, wasn't designed to rape;

Down the chimney Satoshi came with a bound,
standing before them, holding his ground;

He was proper and tall, confidence itself,
and Bernanke laughed, in spite of himself;

With a wink of his eye and a twist of his head,
filled Bernanke and Yellen with a cold sense of dread;

He spoke a few words, while clasping his hands -
"You two should be ashamed, for screwing over the land."

"But I create jobs!" Bernanke he cried, and as for Yellen,
well, she nearly died;

Satoshi just smiled, and before he was done, turned and
said "Bitcoin has won.";

He adjusted his coat and went up the flue,
as Bernanke and Yellen wondered what to do;

And as he took off, to the sky in flight, they heard him say
"Screw the bankers, and to Bitcoiners a good night!"

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:32 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

It took me a while, but I came.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:43 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

And here I thought Yellen would be anti-climax.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 20:39 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

I think they are both bubbles.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

Who spilled Viagra on that chart? Mrs. Claus? 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment Jason T
Jason T's picture

Merry Christmas and pray for the dude who shot santa, he/she needs help.

 

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/12/santa-claus-shot-with-pellet-gun-at...

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:32 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Transitory rotation

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:34 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Both have value, but for what they cost right now?  It's in tulip territory.

Yet again, compared to the Fed's balance sheet, ain't shit.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:33 | Link to Comment H H Henry P P P...
H H Henry P P P Paulson's picture

And I bet Twitter's office is loaded with Herman Miller Aeron chairs.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:42 | Link to Comment The Axe
The Axe's picture

Post a early SIRI chart against that crazy shit......That is retail    more retail    and more retail   in that name....with that chart....cracks   will kill      if it ever cracks.....crazy shit       crazy 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:45 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Where can I buy some leveraged Bitcoin derivatives?

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:56 | Link to Comment jballz
jballz's picture

 

I got some for you. Desposit some cash in my bank account and will email your derivatives directly. I will even encrypt them for you. 50% now til New Years. 

Hurry bitchez

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 18:51 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

I can't tell if your trying to be snarky or if you actually sell bitcoins on localbitcoins.com.

 

 

Because I walk into a bank, deposit FRNs into a strangers deposit account, and 5 minutes later bitcoins that were held in escrow are released and deposited to my wallet.

 

No 50% off though. Market rate applies.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:48 | Link to Comment FiatFapper
FiatFapper's picture

Bitcoin does have intrinsic value - it's backed by the most powerful parallel processing computer network; shame it can't be used for SETI instead, but c'est la vie...

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:59 | Link to Comment jaxville
jaxville's picture

  What we really need to find is some terrestial intelligence.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:16 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

The progessives are intelligent. Compared to fish.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:44 | Link to Comment JimmyRainbow
JimmyRainbow's picture

has been used for seti since 2000 on cpus

from 20xx onwards seti on gpu

13 years later the very same mechanism generates currency.

a dream coming true of the alien believers,

strange times

if just enough people dream the same dream x workunits long

after 100 zillion workunits thr probability a little unicorn is born rises to y$%......

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 18:08 | Link to Comment bunzbunzbunz
bunzbunzbunz's picture

I want what you're having.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 18:36 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

"Bitcoin does have intrinsic value - it's backed by the most powerful parallel processing computer network"

That's a wee bit tricky.  "Backed by" is fleeting.  I notice that you didn't say that it owns anything of value.  No intellectual property, no contracts in hand, no letters of guarantee, ...nothing really.  Not even a copyright or a trademark.  And, more to the point that's been made many times, it owns nothing that its current and future imitators do not also "own":  0 + 0 = 0 

The only relative value that it has is its current position as public opinion leader in a market that has no barrier to entry.  Merchants can drop it like a hot potato and switch to a different crypto tomorrow, and you know what? ...they use the exact same network of users who will be at the exact same nodes and who will use the exact same equipment.  At least beta users were slightly captive to their inventory of tapes when VHS came along.

I'll have to side against you.  There is nothing intrinsic (by definition*) about it's current use of multiple nodes (that all belong to someone else) on a shared network.   You'd be more correct (but still wrong) if you said that Btc belonged to the network.

* belonging to the essential nature of a thing : occurring as a natural part of something

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/intrinsic

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:47 | Link to Comment mmanvil74
mmanvil74's picture

Bitcoin is more than a non-fiat currency, it is a method of transmitting value around the world at no cost, a method of creating secure transactions between two or more parties, and it is not so easily duplicated due to the mining power that is already being used to securely verify each and every transaction.  The total mining power devoted to verifying Bitcoin transactions is greater than the most powerful supercomputer currently on Earth, which is why Bitcoin is not easily suseptible to a third party attack.  Bitcoin can serve as an escrow, forex service, Western Union, bank, asset protection vehicle, trust, and many other financial tools (nope, no value here, keep moving folks, keep moving).

As for Twitter, it is capable of overthrowing governments by generating flash mobs (per Arab Spring) and capable of pumping or dumping any particular stock in an instant using only a string of 130 characters (per Carl Icahn and Apple stock).  Nope, no value here, move along folks.

Allow me to be contrarion and proclaim that both are a "strong buy".

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:18 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

The bitcoin network is now processing 10 quadrillion calculations per second. That's pretty epic.

http://bitcoin.sipa.be/

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 18:47 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

And it does so at a quadrillionth of the cost of current monetary system!!

 

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 21:04 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That's all? Only 10 16? That isn't much to brag about if it's the entire planet of all people willing to try to generate bitcoins.

You could easily get 10 100 out of a single NSA building.

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 02:07 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I believe you're making up numbers.

Thu, 12/26/2013 - 00:09 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

and I believe you have no idea how easily mass-printed computing can be acquired by the NSA, CIA, etc., given they are joined at the hip with those who run the fabrication facilities AND with the only parties allowed to legally print money.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:51 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

The whole "caused the Arab Spring" thing is all well and good, but for Twitter to be a "strong buy" there has to be a way to monetize fickle, trend-chasing, 10-30 year olds who don't have any fucking money. Good luck with that.

And your bitcoin spiel sounds like a bitcoin, multi-level marketing pitch I might hear on late-night TV. If I act now, do I get a set of ginzu knives with my bitcoin purchase?

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:03 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@ElvisDog

Seeing how the conventional legacy financial system is designed to rape and pillage at every opportunity, I'm not surprised you think that Bitcoin is aligned along the same values. But the fact is, what he's saying is true - it is the largest collaborative computing effort on the planet, enables global participation and has extremely low (or nearly zero) fees.

You've been conditioned to reject things that are "too good to be true" because of past disappointment. But in the case of Bitcoin, it delivers - just a few searches would turn up the data he's talking about.

I don't expect everyone to want Bitcoin, and frankly, if you're not ready to deal with it - then don't. But I do suspect eventually it will intersect your life somehow.

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:10 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Fair enough, and it's true that I'm not an early adopter when it comes to technology. I find it's better to wait to see what comes out on top and to let others work the bugs out.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:18 | Link to Comment mmanvil74
mmanvil74's picture

Regarding Twitter, I don't use it and I think it is mostly nonsense, but that doesn't matter - people use it for some reason and it seems to have a large impact on certain occassions.  Let's not forget that Google had "no revenue model" when it first started and now it is a technological powerhouse.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:50 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@mmanvil74

I view twatter like any other medium. For the prior generation, communication over telephones was "it", now, its internet enabled services. They aren't special in any way - just leveraging the existing network. It remains to be seen if they can escape the social-decay-fad cycle, as I'm not entirely convinced what they are doing couldn't be done better.

As for actual valuations, I think we both know that most tech stocks are usually floated on forward looking dreams, not actual revenue. Eventually these will revert to reality - like Cisco did after the tech bubble, but it may take a while...

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 18:25 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Right, but Google became a powerhouse because it expanded way beyond its original implementation as a search engine. Same with Amazon. Where would it be if it still just sold books. Twitter will have to do something similar.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 21:13 | Link to Comment WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

ginzu knives are now brooklyn lanterns

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 14:54 | Link to Comment CryptoCoinUser
CryptoCoinUser's picture

Beyond Bitcoin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvCOJDW2SBA

The most over-sold & safest asset to buy as of december 2013 is gold & silver, which you can  dollar-cost-average with Silver Saver: https://silversaver.com/share/KZ7XE/

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I disagree that it is not backed by anything.  It is backed by AMD and NVIDIA graphics cards (flying off the shelves), and many Watts of power from your local electrical company.

Seriously though... It may not be officially 'backed' by gold or silver by TPTB, but it certainly is backed by what ANY currency should be backed by:  BTC is backed by the Good Will*, Assets, Mining efforts (PCs, SW, web sites, electricity,physical & intellectual labor), and Goods & Services of the FREE MARKET.  A currency, ANY currency has the Value that its USERS decide it has -- and not its competitors, detractors or enemies

You don't have to like it or use it, but if you're not a "2D Libertarian" ("Give me gold or give me death!"), you have to agree to the Free Market ideal, and you can NOT cherry pick when to be a Statist and when to be a Libertarian.  Cause that's knows as a (bullion) shill, a hypocrite, or a schizoid.

* "Good Will" is a legitimate Line Item in accounting, according to GAAP.  Oops!  Clearly even the Writers are not above showing periodic bouts of ignorance.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:36 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Kirk3NCC1701

I've pondered the "backing" question as well, and while some do point to characteristics like electricity, GPU's, ASICs, etc.. I think its more fundamental. The system is backed by the freedom it represents. That is the true utility of Bitcoin. I can't stop you from spending your Bitcoins on what you want - and the same applies to you.

Being fungible across the entire planet is an added bonus, and it makes truly international trade possible without a myriad of barriers and archaic capital controls. We've thought that a "free market" exists already, but it really doesn't - its a highly controlled market that is masquerading as one that is truly free.

I look forward to what an unfettered market can actually do, more on the personal level than any fiat valuation. Its already being expressed in places that haven't had cost-effective ways for transferring wealth to other parts of the globe, and I believe this will continue.

Utility is baked into each Bitcoin, by virtue of its embedded global reach.

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

What is gold backed by?

Gold is backed by the secure knowledge that it can (or ought to be) accepted as good money everywhere by anyone. Gold is backed by the car you can buy, the food you can buy, the home you can buy. Otherwise its an element like carbon and plutonium. Its backed by its use as money.

 

Bitcoin has the same backing. Some people like to wear bitcoins as decorative pieces. Others use it to buy homes, or wineries, or lamborghinis, or an escort, or drugs.

I suggest gold and bitcoin have about equal backing right now.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 19:03 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

"I can't stop you from spending your Bitcoins on what you want - and the same applies to you"

Similarly your local constable can't stop you from committing murder.  Instead they discourage it.  Dope is outlawed in many jurisdictions, yet many of us toke away.

You and I will surely agree that the PTB can outlaw it if they choose.  Your hopes then rely on avoiding detection.

I remember when people grew marijuana in their homes, and then the local police began using infrared in the helicopters.  "That's a water bed, and....THAT is a bank of grow lights."  Where there is a will there is a way.  Breathalyzers.  In-home pregnancy tests.  DNA testing of your fetus.  GC-MS, flame ionization*, etc.

* decades ago I helped design and build several :)  (pats self on back)

All that is needed is stimuli and a detector that can identify a unique signature.  For example, I don't doubt in the least that nano or pico fluctuations in my internet usage or electricty usage or the concurrent rise in my home's temperature can be assigned a probability of resulting from a Btc transaction.  Smartmeters might be the Trojan Horse that allows that.  Your utility provider already knows much of what you do.  A proper detector over your home could probably tell you what brand of razor blades you use (assuming there's an RFID on it).

Where there's a will there's a way, and if Btc seriously represented a threat to TPB's control over 99% of your life, then I sense that their will will overcome yours in the short term certainly.  After all, you fund them.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 21:02 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, I can't GET the hardware USING the bitcoins directly so it's not backed by them.
You need to go both ways to be backed.
I should be able to convert directly to the hardware from the btc & vice versa without loss, both ways, to be backed.
That's what "backing" means.

Since those companies require dollars, and since exponentially increasing amounts of hardware & complexity of hardware & ASICs mean massive quantities of very simple but useless hardware (beyond this 1 task), that's about as far away as "backing" as possible. Neither one backs the other.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:09 | Link to Comment I Feel Free
I Feel Free's picture

The "intrinsic value" of bitcoin is that it allows circumvention of capital controls, faciliitates money laundering, and enables anonymous purchase of contraband (drugs, weapons, etc.). Otherwise, why would anyone need it?

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:21 | Link to Comment SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

see my comment below:

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:21 | Link to Comment One And Only
One And Only's picture

Buying drugs, sex slaves, weapons, and laundering money.

None of that is done with dollars. None. Dollars also are not created out of thin air at the whim of some banker.

That's why dollars are as pure as a wind driven snow.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:29 | Link to Comment BadLibertarian
BadLibertarian's picture

Shhhh. You had me at "circumvention of capital controls." Your other examples happen every day within the legacy monetary system. Why on earth would anyone want to allow someone else to control their capital?

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:37 | Link to Comment Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

As someone who makes a good living in Foreign Exchange, it eliminates the exchange spread! Hello.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 20:58 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

how? Given the volatility if I was moving btc in the middle I'd ask for a HUGE spread or NO BUSINESS to be done today, just to cover estimated daily ranges.
so for today for example I'd give no more than 550/btc and I'd ask at least 750 per btc.
that's just to remain stable within 24 hours on the data. Not doing that, being in the middle, I could easily go bankrupt running dozens of purchases per hour per terminal per business as the middle-man for who knows how many retailers if it was so widely deployed.
Flat out bankrupt.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:52 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@I Feel Free

Ironic as your nickname is, you should know that Bitcoin allows financial freedom. Every system that allows free action can be utilized for good and bad, as they are two sides of the same coin. To demonize Bitcoin because it can be used for evil is to be ignorant for not recognizing the good aspects as well.

It is the one thing that I see over and over - "Bitcoin allows these crooks to do... <whatever>", but never the admission that fiat allows the same thing to occur. Why is that, I wonder?

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:18 | Link to Comment SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

If the Target credit card breach hasn't shaken you awake to the abject failure of the current digital currency system, I don't know what will.  Bitcoin has tremendous value.  Companies spend tens of millions of dollars every year protecting just their credit card numbers, then get charged a 1.5-8.5% fee per transaction on top of that.  Bitcoin allows virtually free transactions, with no secret number to protect.  I'm sure many merchants are starting to wonder how they could move in that direction.  Economic forces of gravity will pull business in that direction whether banks want it or not. 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@SgtShaftoe

To be fair, it was a man-in-the-middle kind of attack, where they were skimming point-of-sale details. A lot of systems have problems defending that. I would take issue with Target though, they tried to not reveal it, fearing they'd take a big hit during pre-holiday shopping. Shows you where their loyalties lie.

You're right about the fees though, most merchants upon being told that Bitcoin only requires fractions of a cent to process most transactions compared to the highway robbery that card processors charge - immediately want to integrate payment systems in Bitcoin.

One further note, you do have to protect your private key - but that is the same as anything else, you would have to protect a PIN or prevent your card from being used by someone via duplication or outright theft.

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:13 | Link to Comment SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

The problem with card transactions is the customer card information has to be entered plaintext at the point of sale system, then it's sent for authorization (through the merchant's network, back to a central system, then to the bank, and an ack is sent all the way back).  Settlement batch happens later in the day with all the card numbers following the same process (a big list of secret and valuable numbers in one place).

There's a ton of attack surface there.  You can get the card numbers at the point of sale, in transit, at the back-end mainframe, on the way to the bank, etc. 

For a Bitcoin transaction, you don't have any of that.  The point of sale system simply get's an acknowledgment that the funds were received (doesn't need the key).  The secret in the transaction is the private key of the customer and merchant.  The customer enters theirs on their phone or whatever, and the merchant has theirs stored securely back in the bowels of the highly defended central office.  Most of the risk and expense are gone.  It's far more defendable, far cheaper, and easier. There's no secret numbers for the transaction.  Just a key entered by the customer on their own device of choice. 

 

 

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@SgtShaftoe

Granted, the "attack surface" for Bitcoin is greatly reduced. And you're quite right that the existing system for processing debit/credit is chock full of potential hazards. Just wanted to throw them a bone - it is the holidays after all.

I do like the irreversability as well. I'll never deal with PayPal again, not after the horror stories I've read about frozen bank accounts, reversed transactions that screw your revenue to hell, etc...

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 20:55 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

a key reason I won't use bitcoin is because it lacks reversibility - I have only ONE protection from fraud once the money's paid and that's reversibility.
I will instead barter in gold with a knife or a gun on my person as the alternate insurance policy.

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 00:42 | Link to Comment SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Escrow services aren't a hard business model to implement.  If there's a need, and a fee to be made, the need will be met. 

Thu, 12/26/2013 - 00:05 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

reversibility is what's needed. Flat out.
Without it I'll do cash/gold in hand for goods in front of my face plus the armed ability to force reversal myself.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 19:19 | Link to Comment chemystical
chemystical's picture

"most merchants upon being told that Bitcoin only requires fractions of a cent to process most transactions compared to the highway robbery that card processors charge - immediately want to integrate payment systems in Bitcoin."

"Most"?  "Immediately"?  Aw, c'mon.  Hyperbole doesn't suit you. 

For your statement to be true, then most merchants would need to be oblivious to that facet of Btc and/or they chose not to act on their wants.

Fairly confident that Wally and McD's etc have "been told about" Btc. 

True we (our own small business) don't need an intermediary (if we want to eschew confidence in the transactions) but the 'zero cost' thing is hooey if you're talking about folks like bitpay.  True we can exchange goods for Btc in person but that belies its touted teletransactional aspect.  Blockchain also takes a cut for verifying authenticity.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:20 | Link to Comment 0b1knob
0b1knob's picture

Stupid reporter learns the first lesson of bitcoin security:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/12/24/bloomberg_anchor_robbed_of_bitcoin_after_displaying_it_live_on_air.html

DON'T EVER LET ANYBODY SEE YOUR CODE!!!!!

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:54 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@0b1knkob

At least in this case the person who taught him not to do the equivalent of leaving a 20 dollar bill on a park bench offered to give it back - and when told to keep it, donated it to a homeless charity. So, pretty much a win-win.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Balvan
Balvan's picture

Bitcoin vs Twitter... imagine someone showed you this article just 5 years ago, how fast things change

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:00 | Link to Comment evokanivo
evokanivo's picture

They are both worthless, but one has a central bank behind it, purchasing shares and boosting the price. Fundamentals and logic haven't mattered in some time.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:08 | Link to Comment WTFUD
WTFUD's picture

Neutral but could not imagine tweeting. At least the bitcoiners recognise the need for change whilst the tweeters, well they're just plumb stupid.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 20:52 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

really? So zerohedge, gata, david morgan, wearechange, nanex (eric hunsader) , etc., are tweeting, and are dummies?
hmmmmmm
Let's think real hard about that.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 23:44 | Link to Comment el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Let's think real hard about that.

Good idea.  I thought real hard about it and came to the conclusion that they are not dummies - they are mining and harvesting dummies.  Twitter is simply the latest iteration of George Orwell's NewSpeak.

Thu, 12/26/2013 - 00:11 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

That's probably one of the most retarded assertions ever uttered. Even dumber than being long Treasuries and short gold for life.
Twitter is a way for you to share headlines, pictures & tag them with topic-relevant keywords as well as related user ID's for the story in question.
And you can't run on and on and on and on because 140 characters is all you get.
It's very ideal.
It's not worth more than $20/share in my opinion but we'll see.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:30 | Link to Comment Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

Welcome to the new normal, where you must choose your investments from a field of catastrophes waiting to happen. Unfortunately, even if you’re willing to settle for something that simply guarantees the purchasing power of your money with zero real return, sorry pal, your SOL. That option doesn’t exist.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:46 | Link to Comment 22winmag
22winmag's picture

Studies have shown Twitter users believe themselves to be "sexier" and "better in bed" than non-users.

 

Studies have shown Bitcoin users believe themselves to be... [you fill in the blanks].

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@22winmag

Bitcoin users believe they have an "out" when the fiat system goes to shit. Just like the goldbugs do. We're on the same team, just have to pick the battles.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 16:56 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

BTFATH

 

Not too long after the IPO.  A friend said he was going to short $TWTR, I sez to him I sez... no.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 17:46 | Link to Comment noob
noob's picture

Mad vs. dumb money?

Irrational Exuberance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaslss5R4Tw

Alan Greenspan says "Trickle Down" Reaganomics failed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GQecQ06xus

Copy of Fed Controls Stock Market: Irrational Exuberance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8IAn9jj8dM

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Prisoners_dilemna
Prisoners_dilemna's picture

First a definition;
1 Megahash / second == 1,000 Kilohash / second == 1,000,000 hash / second

The newest mining hardware is now in the Gigahash range.  1 Gigahash / second is equal to 1,000,000,000 hash / second.

A hash is simply a calculation of a function. 2xa is a function/algorithm. 2x1=2   2x2=4 2x3=6 2x23627908732907864=???????????
Every time a computer applies the formula, 2xa=?, the computer is doing a hash; a single calculation of an algorithm.

So the laptop that I am using  is doing 743258 hash/second. We can also say it is performing at 743Kilohash/second. We can also say it is performing at .743Megahash/second. Finally in Gigahash terms, this laptop is performing at .000743Gigahash/second.

How does my laptop stack up against an ASIC? First, ASIC stands for "Application Specific Integrated Circuit".
It's a computer chip designed to do a specific job. In the case of bitcoin mining computers, the chip calculates the SHA256 function.

So the products from Butterfly Labs operate in the Gigahash/second range.
The lowest end model they sell performs at 10Gigahash/second.

So comparing the lowest end model of ASIC to my laptop with a Central Processing Unit (CPU) chip (Intel Celeron CPU 900@2.2GHz) (that is 2.2 Gigahertz which is NOT the same thing as Gigahash; one is hashes per second, the other is cycles per second, more on this later if someone asks) I can say that the ASIC is doing 10,000,000,000 hashes per second while my laptop is doing 743258 hashes per second. Quite the difference a specially designed circuit makes.

Not only are CPU chips slower at performing the SHA256 calculation then the ASIC chip, but they aren't as energy efficient either. The ASIC was engineered to do one task well and efficiently. So the energy costs, after doing exactly 10 billion hashes, is higher for the CPU than for the ASIC.

So what am I saying here?
I'm saying don't bother trying to mine bitcoin on your laptop. I won't get into network difficulty in this email or any of the other factors that also  caused me to reach this conclusion. For now suffice to say, DO NOT burn out your laptop, with a  CPU chip trying to do what a specifically engineered chip can do so much better.
Analogously, you could hit a baseball with a wooden bat, but a milled metal bat with a cork in the center, well that was engineered and does a better job of sending the ball into the stands. That's why those engineered bats aren't allow in baseball, they're too good at the job at hand.
You could also ride a bmx bike in a road race, after all the bmx bike has wheels and will get you over the finish line....  But a road racing bike will do the job faster with less wear and tear on your body.

Starting to see what I'm saying?

Still not convinced?

Well then put your laptop to work!!  Here's how you can mine bitcoin with your laptop. Just don't expect to hit a homerun or finish the race in first place.

First thing to do is click the Start button (I assume your using windows) and in the Search box type in Resource Monitor. Open that program and look at how your computer is performing. Get a baseline reading of what your computer is doing while it is idle, or maybe you have a web browser open, or some music playing. Either way just look at the numbers and graphs and get a feel for how hard your computer is working.

Now go to http://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet# and you will download the wallet called Bitcoin-QT.  This is the original bitcoin client that is a wallet and also the original bitcoin mining software. All wallets that came after the original Bitcoin-QT dropped the mining function and became a purely wallet software.
Follow the on screen instruction to install the software, its as simple as installing any other software, usually you just click next, next, next, etc and finally Finish.

Now, navigate to the bitcoin folder on your computer. On my windows 7 machine that folder is found here; C:\Users\Autumn\AppData\Roaming\Bitcoin
If you're running windows 7 as well then it will be the exact same file path except the user name won't be Autumn, it will be whatever user name you were logged into your computer with at the time of installation. Once your in the bitcoin folder, you will see a list of folders and files, from top to bottom they read like this;
Blocks
Chainstate
database
.lock
addr.bat
...
...
...

if you see that, then you're in the right folder. Now right click anywhere inside the explorer window, select New, then Select Text Document.
You now have a file in that folder called New Text Document.txt    change the file name to bitcoin.conf   When you do this it will try to leave the .txt file extension in place.   delete the .txt so that the name is only bitcoin.conf.   When you hit enter to save this your computer will say "If you try to change a file name extension, the file might become unusable, Are we sure we want to change it"  Click yes.
Now open the file bitcoin.conf and you will see its a blank file.
Type in gen=1 on the first line, on the second line type in rpcuser=whateveryouwannatypehere , then on the third line type in rpcpassword=youchoosewhatyouwanthereaswell , and finally save the file.

So my conf file looks like this;
gen=1
rpcuser=zerohedgereadersarethecoolest
rpcpassword=onlytimewilltellandFUCKYOUBERNANKE

We just told the bitcoin-qt software to act as a miner. The default state is gen=0, or blank, which means act like a wallet only. We also defined a username and password.   Whatever you chose for line 2 and 3 above, dont use what I wrote. In fact I specifically changed mine to show you an example, and I will change it again. Also I know it sounds weird but you do not need to write that login and password any where else. You will never need to enter that login and password anywhere, and you can change it whenever you like to whatever you like.

ok
now that we've configured our mining software we are going to navigate to the software to start the mining software. This executable file is located in a different place.
To find it on my laptop I went to C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\daemon
Inside that folder is a single executable file named bitcoind.exe
Double click that to open and a small window with a blank black screen will pop up.

Congratulations you are now mining bitcoin!!!

But the screen is blank you scream!  Yes it is.

To see meaningful info, click Start again and in the search bar type cmd then hit the enter key.
A second black window will pop up with a blinking cursor after something like this C:\Users\Autumn_
Welcome to the command line, aka the 80's. Or you are now a super user!
Anyway I want you to type:    cd C:\Program Files (x86)\Bitcoin\daemon        then hit the enter key.
You just told the computer to change directory and told it what directory (a.k.a. folder) to go to.
Finally type this; bitcoind getmininginfo     JUST LIKE YOU SEE IT THERE

Now a list of info will pop up that looks like this:
 "blocks" : 276774,
 "currentblocksize" : 93946,
 "currentblocktx" : 176,
 "difficulty" : 1180923195.25802612,
 "errors" : "",
 "generate" : true,
 "genproclimit" : -1,
 "hashespersec" : 753655,
 "pooledtx" : 202,
 "testnet" : false

Ignore all of it except for this exercise look at the "hashespersec" : 753655 line.  My laptop is doing 753Kilahash/sec or .Megahash/second or finally .000754Gigahash/second.

What do you see for your hashrate readout?   Is your CPU faster than mine?
Does your CPU do 10,000,000,000 like a $374 BFL mining rig with an ASIC does?

I'm curious, and so if you got this far and got some results, email me back and let me know.
If you got stuck somewhere and really want to see what your computer is capable of then give me a call and I will help walk you thru the process of setting up your laptop to mine for Bitcoin.

Last thought,  when you get this working, I am 100% confident that your CPU chip containing computer will hash in the Kilahash/low Megahash range. What this means is your computer will never generate any bitcoins. Your bmx bike wont keep up with the thing lance armstrong rides, your wooden bat won't compare to Barry Bonds home run derby bat. Sure you can ride or hit a ball, but you wont get a single prize, EVER.  But it's still a fun exercise and it is a neat way to test the ability of your CPU chip do perform the SHA256 function.  Which for bitcoin purposes wont get you much, but should you ever need to crack encryption, we'll know how many hashes per second your computer can do!  :)

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 20:49 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

q1: what is the exponentially increasing rate of hash/sec (gigahash/sec, etc.)
q2: what is the cost of the ASIC machine vs bitcoin returned vs total lifetime before this specialized ASIC is no longer able to produce any bitcoins
q3: why would I use ASIC machines if I could use FPGA's I could reprogram for anything else?
q4: do you even consider these ASIC machines will go obsolete and HAVE NO FUTURE use for any computing of any sort because they are so over-specialized?
q5: what do I do if bitcoin value crashes while the extraction/production difficulty is still increasing exponentially? How broke will I be?
q6: what do I do with all this junk before it expires its lifetime if the grid goes down? Serious question, don't you dare dismiss me. Literally 48 hours ago the grid was down in my city due to an ice storm and you better believe no one was using bitcoins. Even many of the ATM's were without power so if you had no cash in hand you had nothing.

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 02:41 | Link to Comment jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

For informational purposes I tried this out not too long ago to get a better idea of how a relatively normal computer like mine would mine BTC.  1 full day's worth of mining with 3.70 ghz quadcore CPU (no graphics card) running got me round 4.5 megahashes and something like 0.0000005 of a share in BTC.

 

Probably could have spared some typing and just gone done it something a little like this:

1) Sign up with a mining pool

2) Download GUIMiner or some other software

3) In miner software select all CPU cores if you have that choice and start mining.

4) Hear your computer whir to life.

5) ctrl+alt+del, and see your system resources used.

6) Sign in to mining pool and see the tiny fraction of a BTC that you've earned for all your hard work.

 

 

Or... an easier way would be to just check a site like this http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator and plug in a hash rate (4.5 MH/s) to estimate how much you'd get.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 20:03 | Link to Comment mijev
mijev's picture

I had zero interest in Twitter until the askjpm (which my auto correct just changed to asylum) fiasco. I still could give a rat's ass about Twitter but that made my day.

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 20:50 | Link to Comment MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

hm, 2014 march puts for twitter? Something in the area of mmm 48 strike? A good balance of cost-risk vs likely reward & multiplier? Say, twtr = 40 by then? 45? 43?

Tue, 12/24/2013 - 22:27 | Link to Comment Haole
Haole's picture

Top o' the season to ZH

Wed, 12/25/2013 - 07:20 | Link to Comment Martel
Martel's picture

Highlighting the discrepancy was apt, but the comparison is still faulty. Twitter shares were available to the public only after the biggest growth had already taken place, and no more plain sailing left. Bitcoin is like having a chance to buy Twitter or Facebook years before the IPO.

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