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Presenting The Definition Of Irony

Tyler Durden's picture


The trapped-in-the-Antarctic-ice Australian research vessel's mission, among others, is to examine the effect of global warming on a receding Antarctic ice shelf...


(h/t @Pedlar7)


Via The Spirit of Mawson blog (the research blog),

"Until recently it was thought this ice sheet was stable, sitting on the continental crust above today’s sea level. However there is an increasing body of evidence, including by the AAE members, that have identified parts of the East Antarctic which are highly susceptible to melting and collapse from ocean warming.


...The effects of this marked shift in westerly winds are already being seen today, triggering warm and salty water to be drawn up from the deep ocean, melting large sections of the Antarctic ice sheet with unknown consequences for future sea level rise"


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Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:43 | 4285874 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture




Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:44 | 4285879 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Ice taper in 3... 2... 1...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:50 | 4285898 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

What if we started selling BITCARBONCREDITCOINS!?!

I'm pretty sure there's enoug suckers who will buy in!

We sell half low, drive up the price by manipulating the price and sell the rest for big bucks and crash the market!!


Could work... I bet there's enough suckers out there...

What do you think?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:51 | 4285909 fonestar
fonestar's picture

What does Bitcoin have to do with carbon credits?  You people could never grasp Bitcoin.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:54 | 4285922 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Easy, what's the only thing powering Bitcoins?  Fossil fuels.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:06 | 4285939 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:26 | 4285980 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

This is the evidence the Fed economists can use to claim that QE is working. It freezes again because QE money printing is working -- without QE the global warming would be much worse.

Bernanke/Yellen must print more and keep printing until ice levels return to 1900 levels and there is no more global warming.

Bernanke is a hero. He has saved us from the global warming.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:30 | 4286060 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

If only we good; a ship-full of dead fools would be a good start.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:38 | 4286090 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Time to change the handle to "SAT 325"

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:56 | 4286174 jaap
jaap's picture

Those are tourists...

And for the beliebers in globull warming:


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:12 | 4286219 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Newspeak terms:

Cold = hot

warming = cooling

So for all the disbelievers in GW - now you know that it must be true.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:47 | 4286345 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

I feel compelled to point out it's even SUMMERTIME in the southern hemisphere right now.  

The cannibalism stories from this should be fantastic.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:23 | 4286462 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Global warming at the north and freezing at the south. Let's make everyone happy.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 02:13 | 4287625 Negative1
Negative1's picture

I know, right. Science is bullchit. Some guy in a lab coat telling me it's getting warmer and I step outside and my balls shrink inside my body it's so freaking cold. They got fancy degrees in BS but I got a shrunkin nut sack that tells me otherwise. Smart guys like us gotta stick together.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:00 | 4285950 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

"...You people could never grasp Bitcoin...."

Exactly why the gold and silver stackers have their doubts about bitcoin, which exists as all ones and zeros on digital storage.

Thanks for explaining it...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:11 | 4285987 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

He is only sixteen, give him a break. Like any other teenager he thinks he knows it all.


Stack On

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:51 | 4286151 TwoCats
TwoCats's picture

Investing Rule #1: Never invest in anything you don't understand

Internet Rule #1: Mercilessly mock anything you don't understand 

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:15 | 4286439 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture



Can we leave these people on the boat until the spring (probably summer) thaw comes?  The thought of frost bite global warming fans experiencing bitter cold is so delightful  It gives me chills.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:37 | 4286485 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

Uh . . . it is summer in the southern hemisphere.


That's the irony of the situation. They projected warm ocean currents would melt the ice sheet, and combined with summer heating, they could sail right through.


Nope - ain't happening.


Obviously, there is a flaw in their theory.


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:19 | 4286603 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture




Thanks for pointing out my error.  My poor reading skills are a product of public education on my part. 

Oh that is even funnier. 

Flawed but not thawed.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:11 | 4285991 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

yeah, but what about gold & silver, it's all just a bunch of atoms.

you should never trust atoms, they make up everything!


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:32 | 4286080 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

How exactly does one grasp a bit coin?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:10 | 4286225 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

With imagination?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:56 | 4285926 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Who you calling " you people" ? That's racist! Somebody get Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton on the line quick. I demand retribution! Preferably in gold, but silver will do.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:21 | 4286027 pods
pods's picture

I think he needs to apologize in South Park fashion.


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:11 | 4285993 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

Carbon based life forms use them.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:21 | 4286025 Not_Sure
Not_Sure's picture

"...never GRASP Bitcoin."


HAHAHAHAH! Get it! Never "Grasp". HAHAHAHA! That's some funny shit.


fonestar, never knew you were a comedian.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:20 | 4286269 rlouis
rlouis's picture

"You people could never grasp Bitcoin." 

True, ironic, isn't it.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:05 | 4286559 jballz
jballz's picture



Just morons.

Wonder what they would say if they ever found out about the carbon credit market (which has existed and acted as a currency for decades).

Not worth the effort to splain.

Fuck em all, they'll sink with the rot.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:06 | 4286564 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture


No kidding right? They bitch about Bitcoin all over ZH, and then the muppets bring it up on their own...

Choose one, you special snowflakes - on topic, or about bitcoin.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 17:49 | 4289576 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Oh the irony.  This is just too easy.  Should I?  Whether I should or not I shall.

Nobody will ever grasp Bitcoins.  They aren't real.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:51 | 4285910 NIHILIST CIPHER

sudden debt         I think you should ask the resident bittard, fonestar. He will know in his infinite wisdom if that will work.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:50 | 4286147 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

You sell your BITCARBONCREDITCOINS and I'll sell FILTHYCOALCOINs and see who wins.  Each FILTHYCOALCOIN will be worth 1 ton of coal.  Since coal is a finite resource there can only be 4 trillion FILTHYCOALCOINs minted for the U.S.


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:12 | 4286222 negative rates
negative rates's picture

I uped ya just cause ur doomed.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:11 | 4286214 negative rates
negative rates's picture

I think you need to have your head examined!

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:44 | 4286357 KickIce
KickIce's picture

And we can use the ice to cool the servers.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:55 | 4285929 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

It will be interesting to find out who ate who after they run out of food.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:58 | 4285943 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

i bet those hippies are vegans, this makes shit even more interesting.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:07 | 4285962 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Vegans are vegans until they get really hungry.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:29 | 4286067 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

reminds me of that joke - they're not vegan cause they love animals, they're vegan cause they hate plants  

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:19 | 4286433 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

And: How do you know someone's a Vegan?  Don't worry, they'll tell you.

And Vegan's like to think that your carnivorous diet promotes the practice of cattle farming and we all 'know' cow farts add to Global Warming so if asked how you are helping say, "I'm eating the cows..." 

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:24 | 4286287 overqualified
overqualified's picture

i bet the ship's crew is not, and this makes shit right

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:28 | 4286288 astroloungers
astroloungers's picture

instant karma

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:26 | 4286045 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Would someone please turn up the global warming.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:31 | 4286075 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

This is the second time this has happened. A ship full of idiots chartered a Russian Class One Icebreaker to eco-tour the Artic Sea several years ago, to visit the scene of planetary destruction first hand; and were frozen in for a month; buring diesel fuel day and night, of course, to keep from freezing. By the way, the entire ice pack melted in 1940-1941 in the Artic but nobody paid attention; there was a world war on which kind of distracted people, and no propaganda machine. Next time somebody mentions melting ice, try to remember this fact; it's real. These things change back and forth and it's none of our business.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:11 | 4286576 HungryPorkChop
HungryPorkChop's picture

@SAT800:  How dare you use history and facts!!! Someone please release the Kraken.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 18:18 | 4289652 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

You must really like the IRS.

Knock, knock....

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:32 | 4286313 Shadow750
Shadow750's picture

It should be noted that leading voices in the climate debate, including President Obama’s science czar John Holdren, were advocates of baby credits to control global cooling before they advocated carbon credits to control global warming.

See the CIA article on global cooling etc at:

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:57 | 4286350 remain calm
remain calm's picture

Since the ice is not melting, it's not global warming anymore so the jackass's are now caling it climate change. What a bunch of dueche bags. The climate is always changing. They finally got it right the climate is changing. They are just trying to repackage this turd and sell it another way.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 19:46 | 4286834 Dugald
Dugald's picture


Why do so many post get off the track with crap about Bitcoin,


Tue, 12/31/2013 - 18:20 | 4289656 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Because bitcoin is just that stupid - whenever some epic stupidity comes up it is natural to associate with other things that are epically stupid.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:42 | 4285875 RacerX
RacerX's picture

I saw this earlier and immediately turned on a couple "old school" incandescent light bulbs, as well as started my gas lawn mower which is now idling. They can hang tight.. they should be thawed out in a few hundred thousand years.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:47 | 4285881 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

s what you're saying is that because of this crisis, people don't drive enough GM trucks anymore and it will take hundreds of thousands of years for the economy to recover?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:03 | 4285953 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Hey don't go blaming me on that issue cause I just bought a sweet used Chevy 4x4 truck for cheap!

I'll go start it right now and just leave it idle all day to help thaw things out down there.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:29 | 4286054 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Excellent plan; you'll also be able to take pride in helping green plants live and thrive; every green plant on the planet; including all our food scources, makes it's body out of Co2 in the Atmosphere; the little darlings are doing measurably better now that they have a few more molecules per cubic meter to work with. keep up the good work.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:11 | 4286231 negative rates
negative rates's picture

It could be worse, you might have bought a beamer. Break My Windows now before the motor goes.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:44 | 4285882 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

I lit a fart on fire

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:10 | 4285977 SmallerGovNow2
SmallerGovNow2's picture


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:19 | 4286028 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

Methane is a more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.  Please don't light farts on fire.  That will only delay the rescue.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:03 | 4286193 superflex
superflex's picture

So is water vapor.

Let's tax water too.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:27 | 4286471 Hulk
Hulk's picture

I believe that particular molecule is already taxed...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:43 | 4285877 NIHILIST CIPHER

Best laugh I've had in a month, hahahahaha !!   Al gore and his carbon tax buddies can suck it.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:00 | 4286176 ChanceIs
ChanceIs's picture

What!?!?!  Are you kidding me??

Al Gore and his buddies may or may not believe their own BS, but they have laughed all the way to the bank on it.  I think that windbag is now worth north of 100 megabucks.

Think of all of the politically financed industries called into existence off of the warming scam...ethanol, wind, carbon trading, etc.  The only people sucking it are you and me.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:15 | 4286584 NIHILIST CIPHER

ChanceIs        The parasites known as Al gore and his buddies had not even kicked in to first gear with their carbon credits scheme. Agreed that Al has made big bucks with his book and suedo GW misinformation film at the boxoffice, but the carbon credit exchange is still to come. Don't count those criminals out but stories like this put a crimp in their plan.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:46 | 4285878 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

It's like rain on your wedding day.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:00 | 4285942 silvermail
silvermail's picture

No, it's like diarrhea  on your wedding!


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:58 | 4285944 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

imagine that diarrhea and rain on your wedding day!

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:03 | 4286190 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Swamp ass and pissed off guests does not a party make.

Reminds me of my wedding in southbeach: just before the 'i do's', a big thunderstorm came rumblin' in. The priest told me "we better get this in fast". Not to mention we were on top of a hotel (The Hotel) and lightnin flashin. thing I know our outdoor wedding dinner turned into an indoor with a monsoon outside.

It was awesome.

But i do remember swamp ass......that's my whole point.

Happy New Year ZH bitches!

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:15 | 4286441 Liquid Courage
Liquid Courage's picture

The priest told me "we better get this in fast".

And you (with a nod to the Bride) said:

"That's what she said!"

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:49 | 4286142 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Or a free ride, when you've already paid.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:01 | 4286182 silentboom
silentboom's picture

Like the acid rain that was supposed to be coming?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:49 | 4286675 Mr Pink
Mr Pink's picture

Damn it! You couldn't just let me enjoy comments about real irony. I blame that hack for creating the most misused word in the history of the English language

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:48 | 4285886 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

While I find this humorous, I also am reminded of this

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:33 | 4286073 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Seems what I was taught in school was correct after all. The new ice age is coming.

At least all those sought after research grants were not wasted way back then.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 19:59 | 4286869 firstdivision
Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:48 | 4285887 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Perhaps a prayer to ManBearPig is in order

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:46 | 4285889 stinkhammer
stinkhammer's picture

the sky is falling, it's falling the sky


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:01 | 4285946 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

quick, buy these carbon credits and I promise that it'll all be OK.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:49 | 4285893 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"melting large sections of the Antarctic ice sheet with unknown consequences for future sea level rise"

Don't worry, Zero has it all under control. He promised in 08 that he would lower the ocean levels.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:57 | 4285938 AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

Washington Post Sep 23, 2013 - Antarctic sea ice has grown to a record large extent for a second straight year, baffling scientists seeking to understand why this ice is expanding...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:09 | 4285973 Michelle
Michelle's picture

Not to mention Arctic sea ice has expanded 60% y/y.

IPCC was created to measure MAN-MADE causes of global warming. So far they are doing a bang-up job scaring mankind into believing they are powerful enough to affect the weather on a macro scale.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:29 | 4286056 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Wonder where you got that, and hope it's not the Heartland institute. Because NOAA is predicting no more arctic ice sheet on summers before 2030...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:49 | 4286089 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you're right, we can't do anything on a global scale. It's not like we can blow it up.

Ps. You're confusing poles 

and even so:

"Overall, the extreme sea ice extent may be linked to strong variations in the westerly wind flow, the main circulation around Antarctica. Strong westerly flow favors ice growth in autumn and early winter, and this was the case; however, as sea ice approached a maximum, the westerly wind pattern abated, allowing ice to drift even further north than usual, in some places urged on by southerly winds.

At the same time, part of the interior has seen record warm winter events, with several daily temperature records set at the South Pole . These warm events are also linked to the reduction in westerly wind strength in August to October. Weaker westerly winds allow more north-south flow into Antarctica, occasionally bringing relatively warm air masses into the interior. Between September 11 and September 15, usually a time of unimaginable cold, four daily maximum temperature records were set, in one case by more than 8.5 degrees Celsius (15.3 degrees Fahrenheit). On September 13, the temperature reached –27.7 degrees Celsius (–17.9 degrees Fahrenheit), a temperature more typical of early summer conditions."


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:40 | 4286331 Freddie
Freddie's picture

baffling scientists seeking to understand why this ice is expanding...

Ice expanded because it got colder.

These university "scientists" and professors know one thing - govt grant money.  You fight clubbers think Wall Street and the banksters are corrupt.   The BS money in the tens and possibly hundreds of billions for university research projects makes hypthetication and rehypothecation look totally honest.

All these scum do is write grant requests.  Loan sharking is more honest than much of academia.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:15 | 4286019 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Don't you realize?! There is more ice because of global warming! We must return to Stone Age caves before it is too late!


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:53 | 4286157 TrustbutVerify
TrustbutVerify's picture

You read the Washington Post?  LOL

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:49 | 4285894 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

always question the conventional wisdom

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:47 | 4285895 Osmium
Osmium's picture

And don't forget it's SUMMER in the southern hemisphere.  Trapped in disappearing ice in the summer.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:47 | 4285899 cpnscarlet
cpnscarlet's picture

It's all about the sun. And the sun is at a very low minima. Better pray it starts revving up again.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:44 | 4286358 Freddie
Freddie's picture


Yup.  It is all the Sun.  The Sun is biggest effing game in the universe.  The only thing close is the earth's core spewing volcanoes out.  The Sun and the earth's core could end the earth in milliseconds. 

The global warming crowd never has an answer about the sun.  Has no idea how to even measure the output effects on earth because it is impossible to accurately measure it. 

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:47 | 4285900 NIHILIST CIPHER

Freaking leave them there stuck in the ice as a monument to the idiocy the sheep will believe. There is a God.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:48 | 4285901 GolfHatesMe
GolfHatesMe's picture

Nothing but Awesome.  My favorite stories of the year are these freezing global warmists. 

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:52 | 4285906 yogibear
yogibear's picture

LOL, Headline....

"Global Warming advocates Airlifted from ship stranded in frozen Antarctic seas"

May the ice crush your ship.

Like a set of teeth chomping on the global warmers and their scams.



Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:11 | 4285988 Darksky
Darksky's picture

Wonder if these advocates will plant a few trees to offset the emissions from the helicopter.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:13 | 4285996 ShrNfr
ShrNfr's picture

You mean the one that is going to rescue the "scientists"??

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:49 | 4286375 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I think the ice may end up cracking the hull of that ship.   I cannot eblieve someone like Shackleton tried to take that one with wooden ships.   Madness.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:53 | 4285911 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Its the job of scientists to scare the shit out of you and they work in concert with the government, and it goes like this..... global warming, no more Islands, all coastal cities flooded, we need another billion dollars to study it. government figures this is a perfect excuse to tax and regulate every mile you drive and every fart you pass. That's how this scam works. If the scientists don't scare the shit out of you they don't have jobs.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:04 | 4285967 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Michael Crichton's State of Fear hits the nail on the head. Keep the masses perpetually in fear of something, whether its Commies during the Cold War, Al Ciada or "Man-Made" GW (which is what the book revolves around).

Any scientist in the UK (and probably the rest of the EU) who took an alternate view lost funding. Any TV presenter who took an alternate view (David Bellamy) was banished from the screens.

Meanwhile David Cameron's father-in-law earns a good few hundred thou a year from his tax payer subsidised fucking wind farms.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:24 | 4286031 No Euros please...
No Euros please we're British's picture

It's all to do with government research grants. If you want to study how many fleas per square inch on a 3 toed sloth, you have no chance of getting funding. If however, you wish to show how global warming is threatening flea populations on 3 toed sloths, then you will be showered with cash.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:56 | 4285918 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Sea ice is at normal levels...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:20 | 4286037 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

World sea ice is above normal. He has a siweather from early dec '13

Good link, thanks

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:56 | 4285930 Rory_Breaker
Rory_Breaker's picture

I love it when reality dick slaps people in the face

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:58 | 4285937 Mercury
Mercury's picture

...The effects of this marked shift in westerly winds are already being seen today, triggering warm and salty water to be drawn up from the deep ocean, melting large sections of the Antarctic ice sheet with unknown consequences for future sea level rise"


This will show those wind change deniers...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 14:57 | 4285940 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Well, my southern hemisphere city AGAIN broke temperature records (a city near here reacher 51ºC for the first time ever...), after breaking it the year before, and the year before that. Some kilometers north of here, corn crops are failing due to record heat waves lasting longer than anybody expected, AGAIN.

But no, of course. AGW is all a clever ruse by Maggie Thatcher with the help of ex marxists to impose global communism by the hands of the ghost of Hugo Chávez, invoqued by Evo Morales. Only Lord Monckton can save us now!


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:05 | 4285951 Mercury
Mercury's picture

You've been duped into looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

It's not that there isn't climate change.

It's that there never was climate stasis.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:04 | 4285961 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Oh yeah, climate changes allright. Specially when for the first time in the human experience, there are over 400 ppm's of CO2 in the atmosphere. Last time in geologic story that happened, global temps rose over 6ºC killing 95% of life on earth. Yet, last time it took 80 thousand years. This time it took us only 300 years to raise 1ºC, and at the current pace it will be less than decades till we reach the 2nd...

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:09 | 4285989 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

95% population loss sounds bullish for resource conservation. Nature has a way of taking care of imbalances and there isn't a damn thing we can do to change that.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:33 | 4286071 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

As a climatologist said: If we can't control our numbers, nature will do it for ourselves.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:16 | 4286000 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Human experience isn’t that long.

95% of life on Earth didn’t die just because the temp rose 6C.

For all we know AGW may be a net benefit since it could be delaying the next ice age - ie a massive climate change phenomenon that has come and gone several times, with regularity and without human interference.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:36 | 4286086 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Human experience ain't that long compared to geological ages, that's true. Yet, humankind and civilization rose in a period of relative climate stability where we never reached 400 ppm of CO2.

Yes, there were ice ages, and there were warming ages. And during the last one, where CO2 rose over 400ppm, temperatures shot up over 6ºC and 95% of life on earth went extinct.

Haven't you already noticed we're entering a new extinction event? Have you seen the level of species extinction lately? Specially since geologists (I mean real scientists, not IB Times, Rupert Murdoch talking heads or Lord Monckton clowns) are talking about the Anthropocene?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:44 | 4286108 superflex
superflex's picture

I'll see your geology 101 class and raise you a BS and MS in Geology.

Your assertations are foolish and go against the scientific principle.

150 years of documented climate data (<50 years of reliable data) vs 4.5 billion years of Earth history = FAIL

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:19 | 4286261 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Damn mister, you have a reading comprehension issue here. Never said these were the warmest years ever since the Earth was created, but the warmest in recorded history. And I venture, and if you'd like to continue the discussion I'm even gonna find the sauces of it all, that these are the warmest years in the whole human experience.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 20:09 | 4286890 malek
malek's picture

No you have a coparison issue here.

If the level of CO2 never reached a level of 400 ppm before during human history (so 200k years at most, and that mostly by very indirect measurements a/k/a advanced guessing),
what significance does that "knowledge" have overall for earth on which life existed for 3+ billion years?

And now to even post we have enough knowledge to even make statements on the first derivative "rate of change" never occurring before is beyond omnipotence fantasies.

But keep on cherry-picking out of your ass.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 22:53 | 4287256 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Well, there was life long before humanity and civilization. Which doesn't mean all environment situations are fit for humankind and/or civilization. The most rational thought would be that if we're going to keep existing as humankind and civilized, then we better keep the climate going as it has been while we flourished. The hope that we can exist on a different climate pattern is just wishful thinking.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:13 | 4286240 Mercury
Mercury's picture

The last ice age ended about 10k years ago and was not marked by an extinction of 95% of Earth's species but by the rise of human civilization.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:32 | 4286307 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

No, mr reading comprehension impairment. I meant the last warm up.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 19:30 | 4286795 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Hey Climate Change believer. Do you live in a timber house, have flushable toilets, use heating, drive a car or catch a train/bus, wear clothes and shoes, eat food, package your Christmas presents in paper...... should you not therfore take one for the team and relieve us of your CARBON BASED lifeform from which the ENTIRE EARTH is made.

Don,t forget to pay the offset when they burn your sorry ass back to basic form

Idiot and useless breather of Air you are

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 22:53 | 4287263 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

I never asked to be born, sorry. But I wish that my existance won't mean the end of other lifeforms, including humanity. I try to do my best (I measure how many kc I consume daily, BTW yankees consume more than a whale FYI; I'm 10 times lower than that.) I'm doing my best, what about you?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:12 | 4286003 Unstable Condition
Unstable Condition's picture

The warming has stopped, there is no proof (other than models that don't match actual observations) of man made CO2 causing the warming that stopped 17 years ago.

Time to stop wasting billions studying carbon and look elsewhere, ocean cycles/sun cycles etc.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:36 | 4286091 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

The warming has not stopped. Where the hell did you get that data? Not the Heartland institute again...

Don't you remember that climatologist whose name I can't remember who in the 50's wanted to check whether the sea was absorbing human emitted carbon releases or if they were being stored in the atmosphere? He started checking PPM's in some observatory in Hawaii and guess what he found? Lord Monckton is wrong, that's what he found.

Sun cycles? Since 1998 we had the warmest years on record coinciding with a solar minimum. The sun "woke up" in 2012, still with very small activity, and 2013 aims to be the warmest of them all.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:44 | 4286110 Unstable Condition
Unstable Condition's picture

For every step change in the temp record there is an ocean cycle that precedes it. Your woeful lack of knowledge shown in your posts tells me I'm wasting my time.

Have fun with your fear mongering, don't throw away your coat.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:49 | 4286144 superflex
superflex's picture

Hawaii as a historical source of CO2 concentrations?

How long has man had observatories in Hawaii?  50 years? 

Take a looks at the Lake Vostok ice cores out of Antartica.  They have over 500,000 years of CO2 data and they dont support your ignorant claims.  

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:26 | 4286291 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Another reading comprehension impeded person here. The guy went to Hawaii to measure CO2 levels and check if the sea was absorbing or not what humans produced...

"Take a looks at the Lake Vostok ice cores out of Antartica.  They have over 500,000 years of CO2 data and they dont support your ignorant claims.  "

Hmm, the correlation between CO2 and temp seems quite obvious there... What do you mean?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:17 | 4286013 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

Congratulations you managed to say everything false. We haven't got to 400ppm yet; and it won't make any difference when we do; there has never been any period in the history of the planet when Co2 levels caused anything; the Co2 levels trail behind the termperature changes by 800-thousand years. there are no causes that come after the effects. The reason it was a little hotter in the twentieth century than it was in the nineteenth century is that it was cold in the nineteenth century. There is no "current pace" no prediction; no trend; this is all delusional. Basically, it's unstoppable global warming every two hundred years; with cooling in between.. The actual official global temperature in August 2013 was exactly the same as August 1989; to the tenth of a degree. That's why they had to change the name of the scame to climate change; because temperature can be measured; climate change on the other hand is a non-science concept; it can't be measured' it's just the source of endless conversation.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:52 | 4286145 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

"We haven't got to 400ppm yet"

"there has never been any period in the history of the planet when Co2 levels caused anything"

There were periods with very little CO2 and the earth snowballed. There were periods with high levels of CO2 and the earth scorched... Check geology classes again please.

Without greenhouse gases, the earth would be several ºC minus.

"The actual official global temperature in August 2013 was exactly the same as August 1989;"

Sauce plz


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:56 | 4286544 jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

correlation does not mean causation.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:50 | 4286680 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Not necessarily. But you get record concentration of a greenhouse gas (which keeps IR bouncing inside the atmosphere instead of going into space) being correlated with higher atmospheric temperatures. You don't have to be that smart to understand that.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:15 | 4286247 DaveyJones
Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:35 | 4286029 superflex
superflex's picture


Your woeful lack of understanding of geologic history is comical.

I guess the Mesozoic, with an average CO2 concentration of 1,500 ppm and a greater diversity of life than today is just a fallacy?

Climate change on Earth is directly tied to the Sun's output, the Earth's eccentricity of orbit, the Earth's axial tilt and precession.

Did your Geology 101 class in Community College not cover the Milankovitch Cycle or the CO2 concentrations of the Lake Vostok ice cores?

With all due respect, Nigger Please!

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:54 | 4286163 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

"I guess the Mesozoic, with an avregare CO2 concentration of 1,500 ppm and a greater diversity of life than today is just a fallacy?"

No, but life in this geologic age evolved in a much different climate.

"Climate change on Earth is directly tied to the Sun's output, the Earth's eccentricity of orbit, the Earth's axial tilt and precession."

That's why we had the hottest years on record coinciding with a solar minimum, right?

"I guess your Geology 101 class in Community College never covered the Milankovitch Cycle or the CO2 concentrations of the Lake Vostok ice cores."

Oh no you didn't nyoggwa!

"Since orbital variations are predictable,[16] if one has a model that relates orbital variations to climate, it is possible to run such a model forward to "predict" future climate. Two caveats are necessary: that anthropogenic effects may modify or even overwhelm orbital effects; and that the mechanism by which orbital forcing influences climate is not well understood. In the most prominent anthropogenic example, orbital forcing from the Milankovitch cycles has been in a cooling phase for millennia, but that cooling trend was reversed in the 20th and 21st centuries due to warming caused by increased anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions"

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:20 | 4286274 superflex
superflex's picture

Oh no you didn't nyoggwa!

So you had to go to wikipedia to figure out Milankovitch cycles and found some footnote in a wiki entry to support your fallacy.

Well played.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:15 | 4286436 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Well, because you forgot to mention some prime issues like anthropogenic effects and that orbital influences on climate are not well understood. How can you affirm so sternly that CC is "directly" tied to the sun and orbits, when the science can't even affirm it knows how it's affected?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 20:13 | 4286918 malek
malek's picture

 No, but life in this geologic age evolved in a much different climate.

Please expand on this line of thought.
Are you saying life in this geologic age couldn't survive long-term in a Mesozoic climate?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 22:57 | 4287271 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Most probably. I'm not a cornucopian. I don't believe that "technology will save the day". There are limits. Limits to growth, per se. Just imagine, 1ºC raise in temp made crops fail where I live. What are we going to eat if our basic foodstuffs can't evolve at the pace we're changing the climate? Or you're expecting to Monsanto it all?

Probably other lifeforms can survive a drastic change; but those are most probably much basic lifeforms than those with which we evolved with...

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 01:20 | 4287557 malek
malek's picture

You really are a dead-parrot style "make-it-up as you go along" type.

From other thread: So how much if the 3+ billion years before humans were environmental acceptable to us and our food-crops, in your opinion?
I'd say close to 100% percent as life's biology is almost always based on the building blocks developed in much much earlier evolution stages, which means they worked then already.

1ºC raise in temp made crops fail where I live
That must be pure bullshit, if anything lack of water made crops fail not the temperature.
And if average temperature rises more over time , we still can move closer to the poles (remember from where this discussion started: we are not talking desirability here but survivability!)

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:55 | 4286166 Hulk
Hulk's picture

and if you think cow farts are bad, you ought to be behind a Brontosaurus when it lets go !!!

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:23 | 4286461 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Yeah, and think of the size of the steaks!

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 17:26 | 4286473 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Think of the size of the barbeque !!!

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:22 | 4286262 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

it's the rate of change not the levels that causes the disruption. adaptation takes time


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 18:49 | 4286685 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Of course. Last 400 ppm took 80 thousand years to reach over 6ºC. And that killed 95% of life on earth. In 300 years we managed to raise 1ºC, and the next one will be reached in less than decades. What sort of natural adaptation will make it through such rate of change?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:28 | 4286289 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

Could you be dumber, Snake?

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:07 | 4285969 Darksky
Darksky's picture

Well said.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:06 | 4285974 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Bingo! And yet these stupid fucktards believe they are smart enough to tax us into oblivion so they can "control the weather ".

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:11 | 4285990 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

These tiny shifts in global heat distribution due to wind currents are meaningless. Old men in every generation, without exception, have declared, boy we never had a winter/summer like that before ! But of course, we did; you just have to look it up. Global warming was bought and paid for by the UN who commisioned the wretched starving little university in the English Midlands to "produce it"; and it was enthusiastically embraced by governments in many areas as a new tax excuse. Global warming means the whole planet; it was warmer for instance in 900AD than it is now; but it probably wasn't due to people's fuel consumption. CO2 is a trace gas; the recent increases are an increase from 3cents to a nickle; from insignificant to insignificant.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 16:06 | 4286209 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

"Global warming was bought and paid for by the UN who commisioned the wretched starving little university in the English Midlands to "produce it""

Yeah, sure. And Krampus is plotting with Santa to kill the tooth fairy. Or AGW is a ruse to impose global communism or whatever.

Thanks for missing over a hundred years of scientific research on the topic...

"Global warming means the whole planet; it was warmer for instance in 900AD than it is now"

Sauce plz.

"from insignificant to insignificant."

Hmm, ever heard of

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 19:52 | 4286854 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

The Romans grew grapes in Northern England.. WTF. Riddle me this Atchung ... of the gases that make up our Atmosphere, how much does CO2 as a percentage represent? Ever heard of green plants and transpiration! Did you notice the dips in the graphs from that little volcanic island in the North Pacific. why does it dip in summer? When ice melts from its EXPANDED state, what happens to the water level.... please do the glass tumbler test that was taught in middle school and not the one where you drop an extranious icecube into a full glass of water then measure the overflow and yell the sky is falling. Professor Julius Sumner-Miller ( google him) and ask... WHY IS IT SO? 

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 23:06 | 4287285 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

I'm not talking about sea levels, for starters.

In my native country, people grow grapes in colder and harsher weathers than northern england. Sorry. Much better wine too (yes, I've tried them all).

CO2 is now 400 ppm. It's a small fraction of all the gases that form the atmosphere. Yet, have you ever heard of complex systems? Those in which a small change in the smallest of variables, change the end result in magnanimous ways? Yeah, that's complex systems, yeah, that's weather. Not linear.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:13 | 4285997 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

How old are those records? A couple of hundred years?

I'm sure it has never reached those temperatures in the history of the planet. This has been one of the coldest winters I can remember in the northwestern parts of North America and it is not even January.

-35 pretty much all of December where I work. I'd like to kick Al's ass for cooling off the planet too much.

Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:04 | 4285954 Max Cynical
Max Cynical's picture

"Earlier, the vessel was only about two miles from the open water, but the ice floes expanded and locked the ship about 13 miles from the sea."


Mon, 12/30/2013 - 15:03 | 4285958 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

They always "forget" to mention in these breathless communiques about the "unknown effects on future sea levels"; that there is actually more water locked up in the form of ice on the Antartic Continent then there was 20 years ago. Basically, some has melted around the edges and been deposited in the center; all of which is none of our business.

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