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Is America About To Reach A Breaking Point?

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Michael Snyder of The Economic Collapse blog,

In America today, there are close to 50 million people living in poverty and there are more than 100 million people that get money from the federal government every month.  As the middle class disintegrates, poverty is climbing to unprecedented levels.  Even though the stock market has been setting record high after record high, the amount of anger and frustration boiling just under the surface in our nation grows with each passing day.

And now extended unemployment benefits have been cut off for 1.3 million unemployed Americans, and it is being projected that a total of 5 million unemployed Americans will lose their benefits by the end of 2014.  In addition, as I have written about previously, 47 million Americans recently had their food stamp benefits reduced.  The conditions for a "perfect storm" are certainly being created.  So how much longer will it be until we see all of this anger and frustration boil over in the streets of our major cities?  Is America about to reach a breaking point?

If you think that the title of this article is "alarmist", you probably have not been paying attention to what has been happening over the past few weeks.  For example, a 600 person brawl broke out at at movie theater in Jacksonville, Florida just the other day...

Five teenagers were arrested when a 600-person brawl broke out in a Florida movie theater’s parking lot on Christmas night.

Described by police as a “melee,” the fight occurred around 8:30 p.m. on Wednesday outside the Hollywood River City 14 movie theater in Jacksonville when a group tried to storm the theater’s doors without purchasing tickets, police said. Several had rushed an off-duty police officer working as a security guard.

 

The officer “administered pepper spray to disperse the group, locked the doors and called for backup, following protocol,” said Lauri-Ellen Smith, a spokeswoman for the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office.

 

Soon after the pepper spray was used, “upward of 600 people moving throughout a parking lot about the size of a football field began fighting, disrupting and jumping on cars,” she said.

And a "flash mob" of "400 crazed teens" was so violent that it forced a mall in Brooklyn to shut down just a few days ago...

A wild flash mob stormed and trashed a Brooklyn mall, causing so much chaos that the shopping center was forced to close during post-Christmas sales, sources said Friday.

 

More than 400 crazed teens — who mistakenly thought the rapper Fabolous would perform — erupted into brawls all over Kings Plaza Shopping Center in Mill Basin on Thursday at 5 p.m., sources said.

 

The troublemakers looted and ransacked several stores as panicked shoppers ran for the exits and clerks scrambled to pull down metal gates.

In addition, the release of new Air Jordan sneakers caused mini-riots and brawls to break out all over the country just before Christmas.

So why is all of this happening?

Of course people will come up with all sorts of theories to explain these outbreaks of violence, but what pretty much everyone should be able to agree on is that we are seeing levels of anger and frustration rise to very dangerous levels in this country.

Right now, there are approximately 6 million Americans in the 16 to 24-year-old age group that are not in school and that are not working either.  What that means is that we have an alarmingly high number of very frustrated young people that do not have anything better to do than to cause trouble.

In some of our largest cities this has become a massive problem.  In fact, quite a few major U.S. cities actually have more than 100,000 "idle youth" living in them…

Just look at some of the nation’s largest cities. Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Miami, Philadelphia, New York, Los Angeles, Atlanta and Riverside, Calif., all have more than 100,000 idle youth, the Opportunity Nation report found.

But the Obama administration says that this should not be a problem.  In fact, the Obama administration tells us that the unemployment rate has been steadily "declining" and that there are plenty of opportunities for everyone.

Of course that is a giant lie.  Just before the last recession, about 63 percent of all working age Americans had a job.  During the recession that number fell below 59 percent and it has stayed there ever since...

Employment-Population Ratio 2013

So the notion that we are experiencing an "employment recovery" is absolutely laughable.

But most of our politicians appear to believe this lie, and it is being used as justification to cut off extended unemployment benefits.

And the funny thing is that by cutting off these benefits, it is going to make it appear as though unemployment has gone down even more.  Millions of unemployed workers that are being forced into the streets will now be counted as having "left the labor force", and it is being projected that the unemployment rate could decline by as much as half a percentage point as a result.

What a joke.

A lot of the people that are having their benefits cut off are really hurting.  For instance, consider the case of 63-year-old paralegal Laura Walker...

“Not all of us have savings and a lot of us have to take care of family because of what happened in the economy,” said Walker, of Santa Clarita, who said she has applied for at least three jobs a week and shares an apartment with her unemployed son, his wife and two children. “It’s going to put my family and me out on the streets.”

So what is she going to do?

Well, at this point she appears to be down to just one option...

“I just don’t know what to do, except pray.”

And of course the unemployed are not the only ones that have had their benefits cut.  As I mentioned above, all 47 million Americans that are currently on food stamps recently had their benefits reduced.  The following is an excerpt from a recent article by Mac Slavo...

Earlier this year government benefits for nutritional assistance were reduced after the expiration of emergency legislation that was enacted following the 2008 financial collapse. Nearly all of the 48 million people receiving food stamp distributions were affected. The move led to warnings from food pantries and recipients around the country who said that the $40 billion in cuts would leave many American families without the ability to put food on dinner tables across America. According to Feed America, the roughly $29 per family that would no longer appear on their EBT cards will amount to about 1.5 billion meals in 2014.

The fact that government dependence has soared to all-time highs even in the midst of this so-called "economic recovery" is just another sign that the middle class is dying.  For years, middle class families have tried strategy after strategy in an attempt to survive, but now it has become apparent that the middle class is rapidly approaching a breaking point...

Rising income inequality is starting to hit home for many American households as they run short of places to reach for a few extra bucks.

As the gap between the rich and poor widened over the last three decades, families at the bottom found ways to deal with the squeeze on earnings. Housewives joined the workforce. Husbands took second jobs and labored longer hours. Homeowners tapped into the rising value of their properties to borrow money to spend.

 

Those strategies finally may have run their course as women’s participation in the labor force has peaked and the bursting of the house-price bubble has left many Americans underwater on their mortgages.

And even though the Obama administration and the mainstream media have tried to convince us over and over that the economy is "getting better", most Americans are not buying it.  In fact, according to a new CNN poll, 70 percent of all Americans believe that "the economy is generally in poor shape".

As the economy continues to decline, not all Americans will respond to their desperate situations by getting violent.  Many suffer quietly, hoping that things will eventually turn around for them.  Unfortunately, the ranks of the suffering grow with each passing year.  For example, a recent CNN article discussed the continued growth of "tent cities" all over America...

The total number of homeless people residing in tents and makeshift homes is unknown. Many of these communities are small and hidden from public view, while others claim hundreds of residents and are sprinkled through major urban areas.

 

Some, like those tucked under roadways, are temporary and relocate frequently. Their conditions are vile, unsanitary and fail to provide refuge from storms and winds. Then there are communities, such as Dignity Village in Portland, Oregon, that have a more sustained presence. The 13-year-old "ecovillage" set up by homeless people is hygienic and self-sufficient.

 

Preliminary findings by The National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty show that tent cities have been documented in almost every state, and they're growing.

So how do we solve these problems?

Are there any solutions that could get us out of this mess?

Of course there are.  But don't hold your breath waiting for any of them to be adopted.  In fact, the American people continue to express great support for the very people that got us into this mess in the first place.  For example, according to a Gallup survey that was just released, Barack Obama is the most admired man in America by a very wide margin and Hillary Clinton is the most admired woman in America by a very wide margin.

And the mainstream media will continue to tell all of us that "leaders" like Obama, Clinton, Reid, Boehner, McConnell and Pelosi can be trusted to get us out of this mess.

If you believe that, there is a bridge that I would like to sell you.

The American people need to stop having blind faith in the relentless propaganda that is being spewed at them through their televisions screens.  The pretty faces that you see "reporting the news" do not care about you and they are not watching out for your best interests.  The corporate-controlled news is highly scripted and it is pretty much the same whatever channel you turn to.  If you have any doubt that "the news" is scripted, just check out this video...

 

 

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Tue, 12/31/2013 - 11:50 | 4288363 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

Go with throttle-up.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 11:55 | 4288380 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Break is the wrong word. This is a slow, down hill process punctuated by periods of sheer terror.

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 11:58 | 4288395 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

Can't help thinking of Challanger.

 

An event, that was predicited, exploded the machine on launch.....one huge explosion then smoking wreckage going to the left...and the right....with nothing but helpless dead and soon to be dead people caught in the middle.

 

It was'nt a disaster, it was prophecy.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:03 | 4288405 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture
Is America About To Reach A Breaking Point?

We cannot move forward until we address the systemic failures, and they are everywhere.  Anyone who has studied history knows the answer to this question.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:08 | 4288431 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

 

Since spending hasn't gotten us out of this.....maybe we should do the opposite.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:35 | 4288562 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

The opposite of spending? You mean moar spending?

Maybe we could cut benefits and social programs for the proles while giving our corporate buddies billions?

Maybe once the subjects see Dimon with a second and third hooker yacht, they'll be so happy for him that they'll want to sacrifice more so that he can get a fourth.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:38 | 4289015 DosZap
DosZap's picture

» Is America About To Reach A Breaking Point?

 

 

Of course, all according o PLAN>

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:05 | 4288435 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Is America about to reach a breaking point?

Not even close.  Americans have been pacified with TV and shitty food.  If you think I am wrong, then what exactly are YOU going to do?  Exactly.  You and everyone else is just going to complain and then watch TV.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:23 | 4288503 CH1
CH1's picture

Disagree.

I see people who are waking up.

Keep informing people! Plant those seeds!

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:26 | 4288530 TeamDepends
TeamDepends's picture

Amen!  If you give up on your fellow man you have given up.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:38 | 4288573 WarriorClass
Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:54 | 4288824 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture
At 61 she lives in basement while her dad, 87, travels

 

Father and daughter are an example of how retirement will be a bleaker experience for baby boomers than what their parents experienced.

 

http://money.msn.com/retirement/at-61-she-lives-in-basement-while-her-da...

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 18:49 | 4289725 401K of Dooom
401K of Dooom's picture

Read this article several times, carefully. This is how New Englanders treat their own children and everyone from the rest of the country. This Lew guy is getting all the benefits from the Gubbermint and he will demand more when he can get them. This is how they treat everyone else. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie and get, get, get. That part of the country deserves to be nuked! I know because of my relatives and people that I have dealt with. Also, I have heard people in that part of the country make comments about white people that are absolutely horrible and if said about people of color, would not be tolerated by polite society.

The Kennedys were symptomatic of this. The people of Massachusetts are not part of the USA but their own nation. Be careful in dealing with them.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 21:48 | 4290084 starfcker
starfcker's picture

401K, this one gives me the creeps, too. way too much information left out. i can't quite grasp what i'm supposed to get out of that article. dude lives in assisted living and travels the world while his daughter struggles? are there ways to waste money faster? these people are schmucks. she should be taking care of him in her house.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 20:17 | 4289728 Parrotile
Parrotile's picture

I read the article, then read the ten pages of pretty disparaging comments.

No matter what the outcome, at least she made the effort - own Company - employing others (and no doubt dealing with the significant (very significant) burdens of local (State) and National bureaucracy). Never forget that the "Small Companies" are the foundation for a stable economy - since all "Big" Companies originally started from far more humble beginnings, or rather that was the accepted situation before the "new normal" of "selective enrichment" for those with the right connections.

The comments paint a picture of an extremely judgmental, polarised "society" with many commentators clearly having no idea of the problems facing smaller "Start Up" Companies,  with the conflicting demands of necessary capital investment vs. cashflow. There are a few empathic souls, but very few indeed (and those that show even a little understanding seem to be attracting more than their "fair share" of downvotes) which again paints a very divisive picture indeed.

Cohesive Society, "willing to work together to solve the current problems"?? Not according to the responses to this article. If these paint a true picture of the American mindset (one has the feeling that most if not all commentators are American), then America certainly does have problems, and as the "financial squeeze" tightens, those problems are going to become a great deal worse.

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:36 | 4289195 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I gave up on man long time ago.

I still hold out hope for my fellow humans, though.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:32 | 4288561 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

CH1--people are waking up to this credit-debt based monetary system given to us by the rothschilds of Isreal.......

debt slavery is celebrated in Tel Aviv..............the rothschilds have a BLVD named after them

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:12 | 4288686 SMG
SMG's picture

Rothschilds of Lucifer would be more accurate.  There are other families as well.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:12 | 4288695 shermacman
shermacman's picture

Israel = squirrel
Israel has nothing to do with the vast corruption and State controlled economic Facsism that is our Federal government. 
It is the Miley Cyrus of economics, a twerking distraction. 

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:15 | 4288706 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Sounds like every other state out there.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:57 | 4289071 CH1
CH1's picture

Sounds like every other state out there.

Precisely!!

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 18:15 | 4289638 TheLoveArtist
TheLoveArtist's picture

In the past people awakened every once in a while and burned the Jews responsible for the mess.  Now these Joooos can be off on a private plane and safe in Israel in a few hours.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:27 | 4288518 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

TV is for morons ... no doubt about that.

But food is a bit different. It's an extreme necessity and it seemingly gets more expensive every day and comes in ever shrinking portions. So, the poor folks are limited to buying poor food. Those huge, hulking zombies in the electric shopping carts really can't help themselves.

No, I'm not excusing their gluttony - just saying that there's more to it than that.

However, folks are waking up and coming to the realization that the best one can do to change this bullshit system is to do ... nothing. Personal general strike. If everyone does nothing, something will happen. This system will come screaming down when everyone decides to do nothing. It's the productive who keep this shell game fueled. Once they decide it ain't worth 4 hours of sleep a night, they'll quit and things will start to change.

Do nothing but for you and yours and fuck these elite pricks. Do nothing and fuck 'em hard. They can't do squat without the grease that the productive supply.

In the hive, the queen would starve without her drones feeding her fat ass. It's no different in the world of people.

Strike the root and go on a personal general strike (excuses are like assholes ....).

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:33 | 4288569 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

That's why all will get food, whether there are 50 mio are a hundred mio. In the end it will cost less than having tha nationsl gard in the cities snd it is a great pleasure for all of us to pay taxes for them.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:07 | 4288887 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Start by boycotting Walmart and Target if you want to see real results.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:36 | 4288764 CaptainSpaulding
CaptainSpaulding's picture

And God said, Let there be Netflix and tis was done. And God saw that it twas good

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:52 | 4289231 creeko
creeko's picture

I haven't logged in quite a while but I did so just to give you a +1.  Thanks for a most lucid comment.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:27 | 4288535 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

"So why is all of this happening?"

N_ _ _ _ _s, that's why.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:36 | 4288566 RacerX
RacerX's picture

N A G G E R S ?

http://youtu.be/IwrUkeYxUF0

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:47 | 4288612 Dadburnitpa
Dadburnitpa's picture

NoBalls?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:53 | 4288637 Keyser
Keyser's picture

We would have been better off picking our own cotton all those centuries ago. 

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 18:52 | 4289733 MrTown3
MrTown3's picture

The vast majority of you are too fucking lazy...always have been. Slaves to comfort and predictability. Never really had to be creative and rather than solve a problem you go the lazy route and blame. THIS is the your undoing. You reap what your lazy ass sows. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:01 | 4289263 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

"Nobamas, that's why."    The arrogant lying narcisistic illegal kenyan muslim and its wookie HO living the imperial grand lifestyle while all the peasants and serfs eat dirt.  All those idiots that think so highly of the looney and its lying klinton deserve what they get but unfortunately effects all the hard working tax paying Americans.....  some day they will wake up..... nah, probably not...

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:49 | 4289226 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Yes, Lenin was right when he said 'worse is better'.  The sooner the crash comes the better -  and it has to be bad enough to make enough people unass themselves from  their TV sets and take out the pitchforks.  Only then will there can be a reset.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 21:47 | 4290082 TMLutas
TMLutas's picture

You cannot address the systemic failures until you describe them and craft practical solutions for them. We don't even have the prerequisites to do so. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:05 | 4288417 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Who predicted the Challenger accident? I have first-hand knowledge of the Space Shuttle program and that is news to me.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:07 | 4288439 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

How about the engineers screaming their lungs out saying "Don't launch" becasue they knew the rings would freeze.....one of them didnt even think it would clear the tower.

 

"Several engineers (most notably Roger Boisjoly) re-expressed their concerns about the effect of low temperatures on the resilience of the rubber O-rings that sealed the joints of the SRBs, and recommended a launch postponement.[11] They argued that they did not have enough data to determine whether the joints would properly seal if the O-rings were colder than 53 °F (12 °C). "

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:33 | 4288988 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

He said launching "would be away from goodness" based on his chart of empirical data that ended at temps well above those that morning.

Some engineering manager got asked by higher management to " put on your manager hat now" in a high pressure conf call about it. The voice from NASA had some pressure in it too, like "come on Thiokol" sort of tone. But there were hundreds of conversations like that with dozens of contractors asking for reasons not to launch related to the cold or the icing.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:16 | 4288476 granolageek
granolageek's picture

The two piece booster thingy was a known total kludge to provide pork to a Utah senator. (Republican for you red meaters). There were vendors besides Thiokol who could have provided a one piece rocket, but their employees couldn't vote for Jake Garn, Reslimican, Utah.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:28 | 4288525 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

Elvis Dog.

In the interests of peace on earth I will try not to be a dick. Sorry if I came across like that.

Assuming you don't know. There is an interview floating around YouTube with one of the engineers who was invovled with the discussions on whether to launch. And believe me, you could still see it in his face and eyes years later, that he was still bitterly angry about what happened, and it was he who felt relieved after it cleared the tower, as he didnt even think it would go that far......didnt go much further as it happened.

I can't find the clip, but its out there, maybe you have better luck than me if you are interested. But the Wiki article is the "approved version".....this guys interview, it was pretty obvious how heated the "discussions" were...........he was sure it would explode.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:22 | 4288734 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I suspect there was some "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" with the engineer in that interview. Here is what really happened back in those days. NASA was somewhat cavalier about the Space Shuttle, certainly before the Challenger accident. The O-rings had worked for 50 missions or so. The vehicle had shown itself to be very robust. However, there was a process where if anyone working on the mission had an issue that he/she felt imperiled the safety of the Orbiter, there was an anonymous number they could call to halt the mission. That engineer, for whatever reason, didn't do that. He can say that "people didn't listen to me" but I suspect it was more that he didn't try very hard.

After the Columbia accident, NASA got very serious about safety. A team of engineers known as the Damage Assessment Team (DAT) would analyze any damage that showed up on launch videos or high resolution pictures taken when the Orbiter was docked to the International Space Station. The DAT would assess the damage and determine whether repairs had to be performed in space. There was also an independent organization set up known as the NASA Engineering and Safety Center (NESC) that anyone could call to launch an independent damage assessment effort if they felt the DAT wasn't doing its job. In short, NASA learned from its mistakes and got very rigorous when it came to safety.

How do I know all this? Because I was a member of the DAT from 2004-2009.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:56 | 4288819 nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

buzz buzz <whir> beep boop...

newTerroristIdent( "DAT", "2004-2009") {

nearestDrone = identNearbyDrone();

arm(nearestDrone);

reroute(nearestDrone);

return;

}

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:45 | 4289025 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Any reality to the notion that EPA or OSHA regs forced NASA to change the adhesive for the heat tiles and liquid tank foam to less effective systems that were then a root cause of subsequent disasters?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:30 | 4289181 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

The tiles were attached to the Orbiter surface using RTV silicon adhesive. As far as I know, the same substance was used throughout the Shuttle program. Don't know anything about the foam on the liquid tanks. The Columbia accident was most likely caused by damage to the wing leading edge during ascent. It could have been anything, a chunk of ice that broke off the liquid tank for instance. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:35 | 4288760 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Talk to Morton Thiocol about the rings. They Warned NASA that they had only so much service life. The rings were not defective, their overuse on repeated missions and tests simply wore them out.

I knew this shit 10 years ago, after talking to their engineers. They had their warnings on paper to NASA.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:16 | 4288909 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

The solid rockets would separate during the ascent and fall into the ocean. They would be recovered and then refurbished for future flights. So, strictly speaking, they weren't reused as-is over and over. Are you telling me that they wouldn't change the O-rings during the refurbishment? I don't know the answer to that question, but it seems strange that they wouldn't.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:40 | 4289021 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

writings were on the walls when they started firing experienced people and started hiring US$8 per hour part timers.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:12 | 4288450 VD
Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:37 | 4288577 VD
VD's picture

if this comments board devolved into a religious squabble over a fairy tale fictional character to help the masses learn how to be ethical vs focusing on the real nefarious issues at hand, then this nation deserves to break and should break. i'm sure during the coming crash many will get even more religious since they'll eventually inherit this bombed out raped out world...assuming they pray hard enough...

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:29 | 4288756 piceridu
piceridu's picture
A revolution?...we live in the dumbest country on earth...

 

http://news.yahoo.com/one-third-americans-reject-evolution-poll-shows-191426764.html
Tue, 12/31/2013 - 11:56 | 4288383 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

"So why is all of this happening?"

 

America as a country is turning its back on God. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 11:59 | 4288399 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Riiiiight it's all because some mythical 2,000 year old book written by marauding nomads isn't being followed enough....although 85% of americans stunningly DO say they believe in it? As George Carlin said....'WTF has everyone lost their fucking minds??'

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:00 | 4288403 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

The truth can be hard to take. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:07 | 4288414 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

What's way harder for me to accept is utter bullshit, such as 2,000 year old religious tracts written by marauding nomadic thugs.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:05 | 4288428 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

I one upped both of you.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:18 | 4288471 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

In fact I'd counter by saying most of americas problems are caused by the belief that some magical invisible character from a moldy old book is the solution to all problems.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:19 | 4288490 NuckingFuts
NuckingFuts's picture

Hey, it easier then believing you are in charge of your own destiny and can change your fate. It's all because we turned our back on God.... So easy.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:40 | 4288584 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

But, but, when something good happens it's a MIRACLE of god and when something horriffic happens, like Tsunamis that kill thousands...welll it's god's will dontcha know.  Also, speaking in tongues apparently brings you closer to god so better get moving on that.

 

It's also more fun to believe that you are in "the know" of some secret ancient language, rites and rituals that give you the ability to invoke the power of god for personal benefit and gain.

 

Incidentally it's not just priests but also rabbis, ministers, mullahs that are preying on young boys and girls.

 

Don't want to leave any of these "godly" people out of the discussion.

 

And in case it's not obvious I myself am an ordained witch doctor of the holy house of Mugabe and I will make the economy grow by performing a secret ritual called "Debasement" after drinking the KoolAid and converting gold into paper.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:12 | 4288684 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Here is a site that helped me to clear up some of that same confusion: 

 

http://www.truthortradition.com/

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:14 | 4288906 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Economists and central bankers are the new priest class.

Percolate on that a bit.  I would say that 'worshipping' the wrong 'gods' has got us where we are, to a large extent.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:51 | 4289052 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

In any case, humans are fundamentally family and clan centered, in terms of our instincts. The nation state, and now modern technoctratic welfare state, have split us into individuals whose primary relationship is with government or co workers or corportations of various sorts, rather than immediate and extended family and family/clan land and possessions. The bible was written at a time when the state was tiny and the family and clan absolutely defining, for more than 99% I guess. Our brains and instincts evolved for that, not this.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:37 | 4288586 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Depends on your defintion of "God" and what "reality" really is. If you think that roast beef hoagie you're eating while watching CNBS on the tube is "real", I've got a nice holographic rendetion of a bridge I'll sell you cheap!!! 

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:52 | 4289411 10mm
10mm's picture

Hoagie. Must be from Philly area. Hog Island made the Hoagie.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:50 | 4288611 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

I'll jump in and say that in my humble opinion many things have to do with both sides of the arguement.  Yes, people have become more immoral, more unethical, more corrupt, mean, lazy, violent, and generally desensitized and apthetic. 

They don't necessarily have to turn to God or Christianity to find themselves and become better people...but with the lack of family units (Mom and Dad, etc.) and at least the basic morals and ethics that are taught and passed down by good people, it's very hard for a human not to turn into a piece of shit without some guidance.

Yes, they can go without Christianity or some other religion and still use free will and the powers of observation and hopefully their basic level of intelligence to choose to be a good person on their own.  But it's obvious these days that in this new corrupt technocratic world it's next to impossible for someone to learn how to choose the right path all on their own.  The odds are stacked way to high against them...and it's on purpose.  Today it's been made much easier to be a loser and so many people go that route.  Oh well, ya can't help everybody, especially if most are too dumbed down to want to help themselves first.  They don't have any pride in themselves or anything they do.

So I'm in between I guess.  I'm not religious, but I don't bust on Christianity or the Bible.  There's nothing wrong with most of it other than the fanatics and scammers, etc. who take it too far in certain ways.  But it's still beneficial as a guide for people to live their lives by in a moral and ethical way.  10 Commandments and all that good stuff.  Nothing wrong with that, right?

I have many faults, but at least I abide by the laws and treat people well so that I may be treated well in return.  I try to work on my faults every day and learn from them so that I succeed as a person in anything I do.

And hey, it doesn't hurt to be a good person just in case, right???  One day we all die some how, some way...what's wrong with keeping enough of an open mind just in case there really is an "other side"?  Ya just never know until it's too late.

Other than that...I'll just say:  keep stacking the phyzz folks!  And have a Happy New Year.  2014 is going to be another mess, so be good, be prepared for anything, keep your head on a swivel, stay alert, stack the shiny as high as you can, and don't forget lots of guns and ammo!!! 

;-)  Cheers!!!

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:55 | 4288644 10mm
10mm's picture

Sign of the times. And it doesn't get better. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:05 | 4288660 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

And hey, it doesn't hurt to be a good person just in case, right???  One day we all die some how, some way...what's wrong with keeping enough of an open mind just in case there really is an "other side"?  Ya just never know until it's too late.

You should be a good person because you can, and despite any hardship, you continue to choose to be. Being good out of the fear of loss of potential rewards, because "just in case," is as twisted as being evil on purpose.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:14 | 4288702 VD
VD's picture

the ol' Pascalian Wager... Religion is useful today only as barometer to call out those unevolved people that still believe in what Santa was spun off from...

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:48 | 4288802 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

aw, c'mon...you know that's not what I meant. :-)

And I certainly wasn't making any excuse for being evil...that hardly fits with the point I was trying to make overall, but I'm sure you knew that.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:09 | 4288885 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Yeah mon. Your message is good, but the "just in case" thought aint something to pass on, so I point it out when I see it.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:20 | 4289140 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture

I hear ya...thanks and Happy New Year!

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:56 | 4289434 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

You as well mah man. Wish you and all our homies here Happy New Beers.

Ales and lagers, we come together to celebrate tonight.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:48 | 4288619 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Oh awesome! I bear none of the responsibility!
It's all those godless heathens.

Cause up until recently the US was made up of 100% good Christian folk, right?

If only we had all voted republican, right?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:08 | 4288680 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

And might I add --- if God is the answer then just say a few prayers and this nightmare will be over --- oh right I thought so.

Religion is for stupid donkeys.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:11 | 4288691 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

I would just say that God's plan supercedes any of our petitions.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:45 | 4289033 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

Complete and utter barf.  NEP - your comment means that prayer is futile and there is no free will.  Yet, I'll bet you ask everyone to pray for whoever, whatever, in any given negative situation, right?  You can't have it both ways.  That big man in the sky is a fickle fuck for someone who is supposed to love us, unconditionally. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:55 | 4289286 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Consider candy for a moment, from the POV of a parent.

 

Your child asks for candy, but it's breakfast time, so you say no. 

 

Another time, your child asks for candy, and this time it is Christmas morning, so you say yes.

 

As the parent, you must maintain the prerogative to grant or deny your little ones' wishes based on your more mature judgment. 

 

This is loving.

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 21:20 | 4290033 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Sometimes the answer to a prayer is "no."

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:52 | 4289237 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

So why pray then?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 21:22 | 4290038 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Better you should ask HOW to pray effectively!  (Look up Religious Science)

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:08 | 4288447 pods
pods's picture

So you would say it was God more than say, the exponential nature of our fractional reserve money system?

I am all for believing in God if one so chooses.

But God isn't not going to allow you to run a fractional reserve money system where credit is created out of nothing and lent out at interest in perpetuity.

You can follow the good book to the T, still ain't going to make our system workable.

Go on believing it was morals, and angering God though.  If it gets you to sleep at night.

pods

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:12 | 4288460 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

The one time that Jesus Christ got violent during his earthly ministry - chasing people with a whip and overturning tables - was with the money changers.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:16 | 4288464 VD
VD's picture

LOL!

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:57 | 4288656 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

So now that there are 7billion people on the planet instead of the 300 million back in Jeebus' day...what's his excuse for the no-show?  I mean, take the sins of the world...and hurry.  Or is god waiting for there to be 300 billion people before showing up again to make some miracles (other than AAPL of course because thank god [Steve Jobs] for making AAPL).

Ahh, god works in mysterious ways, like letting his entire "creation" go to shit because a small group of sociopaths (who he created incidentally so it must be a good thing right that there are sociopathic oligarchs running the world) rule over the planet.

I for one am waiting for the Borg to take over.  At least their system is "fair" and "equal" and everyone has a "job".

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:14 | 4289295 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Consider that God's plan is to save as many people as possible from everlasting death.

 

If he can wait even five more minutes to save another person, yet not sacrifice the whole of his creation, then wouldn't a loving God do just that?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:22 | 4288479 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea and Jeebus also got infuriated by a fig tree which insolently disobeyed his order to give him some figs out of season and cursed the tree.

A bit of a kook!

This probably went over the heads of most Christians who mostly have never actually read a bible.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:45 | 4288610 Doctor of Reality
Doctor of Reality's picture

I've read it and I now live it. You sound like an angry atheist, and sadly you're wrong. I'll bet you're a sociopath by biology and HATE that you've read the Bible but don't FEEL it. Sadly, it's people like you who cause others to falter. 

p.s. Sociopaths make up 4% of society. They aren't automatically bad people, they simply lack a conscience. Most sociopaths are atheists because they don't feel the connection. If feel sorry for them, but they can still be saved. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:21 | 4288726 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And psychopaths, those that believe invisible magical beings exist and speak to them, make up about 80% of our population. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:29 | 4288742 Auric Goldfinger
Auric Goldfinger's picture

Doctor of Reality.

Most.  Ironic.  Username.  Ever. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:47 | 4289217 booboo
booboo's picture

It was not the time of the year that the fruit was mature, but the buds are considered a treat, not seeing the buds he knew it was not going to produce the fruit so it was a worthless tree. But you would know this being a bible ex spurt.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:20 | 4288495 pods
pods's picture

I am well aware of that story.

Do you have a reply as to whether it is failure to obey God's law versus our fractional reserve banking system that is the cause of our plight?

Because I can show you evidence all day long that backs up my argument.

pods

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:46 | 4288560 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Sure.

 

Article 1 Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution says, Congress shall have the power, "To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures." 

 

The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional in that it does not have the power to create money under the law of the land. You could then make a further argument that all transactions with said money are not legally binding, as they stem from an unlawful agreement (trading counterfeit currency) and cannot be unforced under law. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:49 | 4288633 pods
pods's picture

Exactly.

And this is GOD's law? I'm confused.

pods

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:09 | 4288674 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

No, it's U.S. law. 

 

But 1 Peter 2:13-17 says, "Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the Emperor."

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:20 | 4288713 pods
pods's picture

Sorry Peter, I cannot seem to fall in line with the "be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution."

That MIGHT work well if those in charge are not sociopathic, power hungry tyrants.  

But what if they are?

I am disobeying God's law by resisting man's institutions.

And I am fine with that.

pods

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:02 | 4289078 Reference Variable
Reference Variable's picture

Realize that the book is not about how to live free. Being that central themes are 'making the best of the circumstances you have', sacrifice, and humility. I doubt you will see much of any blowback from organized Christianity. After all, the much larger picture is supposed to be God's providence.

It's sad really.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:18 | 4289304 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. John 8:32

 

Jesus Christ: "I am the way and the truth and the life." John 14:6

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:23 | 4288937 Blano
Blano's picture

As someone who agrees with you and also tries his best to follow Scripture, we are now at the point where we cannot both live as people who are free AND follow this verse as well as Romans 13:1-2 to a tee. 

Christians are going to have to choose, and I have made my choice, which is now more in line with pods.  My freedom flows from God.  Therefore, I refuse to comply with the current human institution.

Happy New Year to all.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:39 | 4288580 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Crickets is all you'll get because no one needs to have an educated opinion in order to blame every shitty thing that happens on a God they don't believe in......

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:43 | 4288593 Bryan
Bryan's picture

Wasn't the OP's point that if people have always taken to heart the moral standards/behaviors presented by Christ to his disciples and followers, we would not be in the moral and fiscal dilemmas we are now in?  Why would the Biblical edict to love God, and love your neighbor as yourself, not have an effect on the way finances/banking are handled?  Why would the Biblical edict to "do unto others as you would do unto yourself" not have an effect on how economies work?  Why would pride, greed and lust not have a negative effect on how the world operates?  I don't get your argument.  Or maybe you are fine with moral relativism and greed and whatnot as long as it doesn't personally affect you negatively... I don't know.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:03 | 4288669 pods
pods's picture

The OP said that we are turning our backs on God.
If you are speaking about the Christian God, then how would that affect someone does NOT hold Christian beliefs?

Biblical values hold for the individual, if they so choose to believe in them.  And groups, if they so choose to believe the same.

I am fine with moral relativism, and with greed.  I don't care what you do if it does not have the power to affect me.

It is a very slippery slope when we put men in charge of interpreting God's laws.  And Heaven help us, codifying them in law.

pods 

 

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:13 | 4288699 Bryan
Bryan's picture

Good points.  I would not want to live in a Theocracy, even a Christian one. 

 

Regarding truth and belief, see my post below to VD.

 

Regarding moral relativism, I would argue that it's as slippery as men interpreting God's laws.  Jesus kind of gave the ultimate interpretation of God's laws himself, when he said "love the lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself."  There's not much interpretation needed there.  His followers even questioned him about that... 'what does it mean to love my neighbor?'  Essentially God and Christianity boils down to some pretty simple principles... reverence to God (a power greater than yourself), regarding other people above yourself, humility, service to others, generosity, is what I think Christ was saying there.  I don't see how that could be misinterpreted or could hurt society if applied. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:22 | 4288731 pods
pods's picture

Oh absolutely not, it is a very good rule to abide by. That is in fact how I live my life. Well I try to, but I am human, so I fail.  

God is something that I can barely comprehend. It is something I do believe in, as you cannot look around and see the wonders of life as merely chance.

But, I am not big on tyranny, and when you have God on your side, you can do some awful things, and they are accepted by those who believe.

So I try and keep my values as mine, and not impose them on others.

pods

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:24 | 4288741 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

What would actually be the point where we 'turned our backs on gods law' would be the freeing of the slaves, according to the moldy old book anyway.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:20 | 4289321 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Actually, the slave trade in Africa and other places constituted man-stealing, and was punishable by death under the Old Covenant. 

 

Under God's law, slavery in America started off as an illegal act, and should have been abolished. Praise God. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:48 | 4288620 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

It was more than once, and he was so very feared by the money changers... So much so, they destroyed Rome to bring him down.

Happy Hanukah..

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:55 | 4288643 Agent P
Agent P's picture

The woman in the article whose UE benefits are being cut plans to pray to solve her problems.  Tell me honestly how you believe that's going to work out for her. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:37 | 4288766 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Better than if she didn't. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:52 | 4289045 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

"In God We Trust".  It says so - right there on the money in your pocket.  I'm blaming the whole thing on him. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:24 | 4288504 Shad_ow
Shad_ow's picture

"So you would say it was God more than say, the exponential nature of our fractional reserve money system?"

Those who determine how those systems and the political arena are run have turned their backs on God and filled their hearts with evil.  So yes, it is the lack of God in our society.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:30 | 4288548 pods
pods's picture

Very valid argument.  OP said IS turning.  Not, turned our backs 100+years ago (Jekyll Island was in 1910).

And I would rather have man's law hold those back who want to take advantage of others as opposed to God's law.

God's law only holds for those who BELIEVE in it.  And of course, you have to have man interpret God's law, so you have that little problem.

In my life, God's law is fine.  In a society, I need more than God's law and the honor system holding back human nature.

And don't get me started about how "the church" interprets God's law to whatever the hell they want in order to achive the outcome they desire.

pods

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:10 | 4288679 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

The Church isn't conspiring against you. Try and go sometime first. If that was a human who wrote the bible he sure was a weirdo. "Blessed are the meek?" "Give unto others as you would give unto yourself"? That doesn't sound like the typical human...let alone American. This is the world of "what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too." If that Book was followed as it was demanded half the people in this country would be dead right now.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:30 | 4288753 pods
pods's picture

I have been to church. Grew up Catholic and worked for the church, and even attended a non-denominational church in my adult life. Pastor was my next door neighbor, and a great guy so that helped.

But I do not have to attend church, or as you put it, "The Church" to see the beauty of God.

I see more of God's wonder in the woods than in a building.

pods

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:49 | 4289040 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

"I see more of God's wonder in the woods than in a building"

I hear you, but I also suspect there have been times when that sentiment would have got us burnt as pagans.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:44 | 4289208 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Respectfully agree. I was helped immensely by an Anglo catholic priest. He probably kept a very depressed girl from eventual suicide. I am so thankful he was there for me. But, I am not religious nor ever will be. I need no stricture and repetitive ritual to feel God's presence. However, I respect those who do and will never denigrate them.

It is sad many here can't find some respect for religious people and lump them in with children and loopy fanatics. I personally find god in the oak woods I walk in near my house as you eluded. How strange people spend so much time in doors in front of TV or computers and wonder why they feel so disconnected. Joy is the infallible evidence of the presence of God.

Miffed;-)

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:10 | 4288456 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

The truth can be hard to take.

The truth is what it is, not what someone tells you it is. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:17 | 4288468 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Agreed.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:24 | 4288497 VD
VD's picture

the truth then is you believe in fiction as reality and that is hardest to take...or actually much easier....at least (most) kids grow out of Santa and the tooth fairy...

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:32 | 4288545 Bryan
Bryan's picture

What is reality?  Wait, I think we had this conversation before.  Never mind.  :-)

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:34 | 4288557 SimMaker
SimMaker's picture

I think, therefore, I think I am.

 

Am I?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:46 | 4288567 VD
VD's picture

actually i prefer Sartre's cogito over Descartes': I AM, THEREFORE I THINK.

 

and REALITY IS ANYTHING YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH.

 

Or some such...

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:55 | 4288657 Bryan
Bryan's picture

ha.. yeah.  :-)  Anyhow, I've thought a lot about this issue... about what 'reality' or 'truth' really is.  Since we cannot 'know' anything outside of what we can perceive with our senses, is reality something we can never 'know' fully?  I guess it's the same question as "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there...".  Are we arrogant enough as a species to assume that 'truth' is only what we can perceive?  Or is there 'stuff' out that there we have yet to discover, which we currently cannot perceive?  Is there something that exists that does not register with any of our 5 senses?  Would a God fit into that picture somehow?

 

Sorry... philosophical rant.  It must be the new year coming... getting older.  :-)

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 18:04 | 4289620 Onthebeach
Onthebeach's picture

Following an earthquake it is common for survivors to flock into the remaining Churches to give thanks to God for their survival.

It is also quite common for the aftershocks to bring down those Churches onto the heads of those giving thanks for their deliverance.

The remaining congregation will then give thanks to God at open air services.

The Jesuits said it best:

“Give me the child, I will give you the man.“

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:17 | 4288466 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Grow up. The essence of christianity is the golden rule - do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Surely you can see that if this one simple edict were actually followed, most of our problems would disappear? At one time the edict was followed more closely and we had a better country.

BTW, no one cares what you do with your penis/vagina. Stop feeling guilty about it and using that guilt as a reason to think that infinite energy and all the rest that birthed reality came from nothing.

(If that criticism doesn't apply to you please ignore it - I find that almost all atheism is genital-related.)

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:20 | 4288499 aerojet
aerojet's picture

If only these people would follow their own good advice!  And stop drinking and using drugs.  Help yourself for once instead of looking to a deity to fix it all?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:52 | 4289419 10mm
10mm's picture

Drink and be merry. But don't be a drunkard.

Fri, 01/03/2014 - 18:36 | 4298006 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What's wrong with drinking & drugs? If your body can tolerate it, enjoy it.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:09 | 4288683 Gold Eyed Cat
Gold Eyed Cat's picture

Good post BuyingSterling.

My family and I are very practical Christians.  I am Christian because I have yet to meet any group of people that in general live happier, healthier lives.  When life is good, my family is thankful and joyful.  When life is ugly, faith gives us comfort and strength.  For us it is a simple practical decision.  We see no reason to make life harder, colder, more complicated or more challenging than it already is.  You only get one life, why waste time agonizing over the existance of God?  If believing in God makes your quality of life richer, why choose to live poorer? 

 

And never confuse faith with organized religion.  All organized religions have agendas and very few of those agendas have anything to do with actual Christian tenents.

 

Anyway, to each his own!  Each man reaps what he sows... and all that jazz. 

 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:16 | 4288693 Agent P
Agent P's picture

"...do unto others as you would have them do unto you...at one time the edict was followed more closely and we had a better country."

Except for slavery and such, right?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:48 | 4288800 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

That's right - you're getting it. You see how violating the golden rule leads to problems.

Oh - I see now that you were being snarky. You pulled out that slavery card where an entire nation of people are tarred because they didn't immediately ban slavery (never mind that we wouldn't have a constition if some had insisted on that at the time).

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:27 | 4289156 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Actually, while not a devout Christian, I believe the Christian faith offers some good moral teachings.  However, I can't stand the hypocrisy of those claim to follow the moral code of their religion while their actions demonstrate otherwise.  I pointed out slavery as a contradiction to the claim that we once had a better country because we adhered to the "do unto others" doctrine.  There are countless other examples I could have pointed to of man (not just Americans) betraying his moral teachings in the name of self-interest.  This is nothing new. 

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:10 | 4289103 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

The golden rule is the essence of many religions.  It is also inherent in human nature in the form of empathy, with or without religion.  Being an atheist does not equate to not believing in a creative force behind the universe.  It only means we do not worship an entity known as God or accept any particular doctrine, dogma or holy text as fact or on faith.  Buddhism, for instance is a spiritual practice that does not worship any capital "G" God.  Still you would never say that a Buddhist is not spiritual or morally bankrupt.  There are many degrees to all things and lumping atheists into one category with something as silly as being genital-related is really just dumb. 

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 15:33 | 4291219 starfcker
starfcker's picture

Loose caboose you are full of shit. the golden rule is not the "essence of many religions". name them, fool. it is the central tenant of one. don't make stuff up.

Fri, 01/03/2014 - 18:37 | 4297996 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

The one with all the gold makes all the rules.

That's the golden rule.

There is no other.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:27 | 4288521 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

And yet, if God did you an undeniable, unmistakable, life changing favor of grace, you would do a complete 180.  Maybe some of these people have had an experience that you have not had yet.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:34 | 4288558 VD
VD's picture

like what kind of favor? a direct devine interjection / intersection ; say, for e.g. winning the lottery? or scoring the winning touch down in the superbowl? or finding a $100 bill on the pavement? or a lucky trade in the 'marketz'¿¿¿

 

what say you is one single e.g. of a direct consequence of god intersecting the plane of worldliness¿¿¿ amuse us..

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:50 | 4288602 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life.  John 3:16

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:48 | 4288627 VD
VD's picture

sure....and i just dropped off Jesus at the pool....

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:55 | 4289066 Loose Caboose
Loose Caboose's picture

Not again.  You know he's just gonna walk across the water again and confuse the other kids....

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 16:45 | 4289396 VD
VD's picture

but i flushed!

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 12:53 | 4288648 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"what say you is one single e.g. of a direct consequence of god intersecting the plane of worldliness¿¿¿ amuse us.."

I thought you were a Jew?  What were you fighting with Francis about, a "race"?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:07 | 4288678 VD
VD's picture

you think, but that does not make it real ('cept for u maybe).

 

i never fought with anyone about a religion per se and my defending a moral position has nothing to do with my religious orientation; i am sure even you can extrapolate my 'religion' just from cursory reading of this here comments board.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 15:23 | 4289161 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Gas prices!

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 14:22 | 4288936 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

You lost me at "devine".

 

Andy?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:03 | 4288666 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I recall that John Adams made a statement to the effect that the Constitution was for a moral and religious people, and would not suffice for any other.

Whether or not one believes in the God of the Bible (I do), the sense of morality imposed by the belief in a higher authority does make people behave decently without the need of force. The rioters mentioned in the article clearly are part of an underclass that has not been brought up properly, respects no authority - earthbound or heavenly - and generally behaves as wild animals at times. The black community 60 years ago was mostly a stable foundation, even in the lower economic levels. Government meddling via social programs that rewarded single-mother families and other similar destructive modalities started the downhill slide. Read what Daniel Patrick Mounihan had to say about the mess that government created. 

Of course one does not have to believe in God, as presented in the Bible, to behave decently. Thomas Jefferson is but one example. The most of the culture around him did believe, and Jefferson recognized the benefits derived therefrom. The USA today does not have that advantage, having - particularly in urban areas - reverted to a generally agnostic (at best) culture that respects no authority that doesn't come from the barrel of a gun.

And a minor quibble: much of the Bible, both the Jewish portion and the New Testament, was written by people living in a stable, non-nomadic environment. Get past the first six books and the rest - 60 books - were written during the existence of Israel or the Roman Empire. Or were you referring to the Koran, which was written roughly 1500 years ago?

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 17:19 | 4289502 KickIce
KickIce's picture

Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”

“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 18:15 | 4289632 Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

Judaism is a sheer, blank, bottomless lie, Christianity is preposterous, and Islam is a crazy, absurd religion.

 

This is my opinion. 

 

 No offense intended, and none taken, I hope.

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:07 | 4288675 Notarocketscientist
Notarocketscientist's picture

Only MORONS believe in God

Tue, 12/31/2013 - 13:21 | 4288724 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

Only a moron would make such a statement, and I do not believe in God. Many do, and yes some are morons, but many are not. Religion attracts people of a certain mindset. Who are you to denigrate those who perceive reality in a different fashion from yourself? Oh, right.......a moron.

Fri, 01/03/2014 - 16:59 | 4297736 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

UN-perceive reality.

Religion is the denial of fact, denial of reality, not an added level of perception.

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