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Obamacare Goes Live Today: Here Is The Next Big Problem

Tyler Durden's picture


Obamacare officially went live at midnight. This means that 2.1 million Americans (the latest enrollment number provided by the administration) will be given a chance to exercise their new plans at hospitals and clinics across the country (it was unclear what the latest number of Americans kicked off their existing plans was most recently: the tally was 4.0 million as of mid-November and it is fair to assume it has risen since then). And then the real glitches will begin.

We reported two weeks ago that navigating the labyrinth successfully and "signing up" for Obamacare is one thing; actually activating coverage by making a payment is something totally different. We added that "if people don’t pay by Dec. 31, insurers may end up stuck with a disproportionate number of sicker and costlier customers."

It is this "shock" realization that one's Obamacare plan is not active until after the healthcare service has been rendered, that may hit as many as 50% of all enrollees, which means that of the 2+ million Americans who believe they have coverage, up to 1 million is about to be served with a bill which they can't afford. This also happens to be the main story across various media outlets today.

First, The Hill:

Enrollment deadline delays and processing errors at have been an administrative nightmare for insurers, and may leave some consumers discovering that they don’t have the insurance they thought they purchased when they show up at the doctor’s office. 


It’s also likely that some people think they have insurance under ObamaCare but do not because they have yet to make their first premium payment. Until they do, they aren’t actually insured. 


In Washington and Nevada, only about 50 percent of enrollees have made their first premium payments. Those are the only states that provide the breakdown.


The biggest risk now is people thinking that by picking a plan, that they’re insured, when in fact final step is paying the premium,” Larry Levitt, a senior vice president with the Kaiser Family Foundation, told The Hill. “I haven’t seen good numbers on how many people are paying premiums, so that to me is the uncertainty.”

Next, it's Reuters' turn:

"It will be difficult for us to actually verify coverage - that's my concern," said Dr. William Wulf, CEO of Central Ohio Primary Care, which has 250 primary care physicians.


The task could be made more difficult by decisions by the U.S. government and many states to push back enrollment deadlines toward the end of the year, and to allow some patients well into January to pay for coverage that is retroactive to the start of the year.


The late deadlines mean that many enrollees who seek care initially may lack insurance cards or other proof of coverage. Wulf said his physician offices will assume that an existing patient is covered if they claim to be when they come in for appointments and their coverage cannot be verified immediately. But if they require expensive tests, such as MRIs or heart-stress tests that can cost up to $700, the Ohio practice will check with insurers first to make sure the patient has coverage.


Similarly, Dr. Andy Chiou, CEO of Peoria Surgical Group Ltd in Illinois, said that if the practice finds a "significant minority" of its patients do not have coverage when they believe they do, it might delay elective surgeries for patients until their insurance is confirmed.


"For the protection of patients and us, we'll have to say, 'Sorry, you don't have insurance,'" Chiou said.

That means 1 million Americans, some of whom are very ill, are about to get a big new year's disappointment from their doctor.

To be sure, some stop gap measures have been implemented: the Hill reports that some big insurers "will allow consumers to pay their first premium by Jan. 10 and still be insured on Jan. 1. In addition, Walgreens and CVS Pharmacies announced this week that they will provide up to a month of no-cost medications to consumers that haven’t received their ObamaCare IDs yet, but can prove they enrolled." However, for those who expected Obamacare to be a deus ex with zero payment at all, which appears to have been the case at nearly a majority level, no temporary measures will fix the situation that there is still a payment to be made: a payment which millions simply can not afford.

Needless to say, with 2014 an election year, the stakes for the administration are huge:

For the Obama administration, the political stakes are high in ensuring a smooth transition period for coverage, particularly after the website's problems damaged the popularity of the Democratic president and the healthcare overhaul, his top domestic achievement.


Republicans who have called Obamacare a costly program that will rob many Americans of insurance choices have said they will make Obamacare's problems their top issue in the November 2014 elections, when control of Congress will be at stake.


White House health policy adviser Phil Schiliro said on Tuesday that because of the intense focus on Obamacare, "problems that have never gotten attention before will get some attention now."

The Hill adds:

There’s little doubt the success of the healthcare law will be a big factor in Democratic efforts to retain the Senate, where Republicans need to gain six seats to win back a majority.


Doing so would be a huge blow to Obama’s remaining years in office, virtually assuring him lame-duck status through the rest of his term.


So there’s a lot at stake for the administration to ensure things go smoothly, starting on New Year’s Day.

At this point, some opt out to fall back to a naive belief that things will be well:

John Holahan, a fellow at the non-partisan Urban Institute, said the idea that people will be blindsided is foolish. “If they don’t pay they don’t have insurance, that’s part of the deal, you’re not really enrolled,” he said. “But I assume anyone who goes through the trouble of enrolling will go ahead and pay.”

Actually, most who have the free time to go through the trouble of enrolling likely don't have a source of disposable income.

A more realistic conclusion comes from Joe Antos of the conservative American Enterprise Institute, who predicted the flood of applications would be too much for the administration and the insurers to handle before the newly covered head out to exercise their plans. “There’s no way the insurance industry could hire enough people to process all that paperwork if the data was coming in correctly, and it’s not,” he said. “I think most people who think they have coverage will find some difficulty early in January."

We will find out in the coming days if the next big embarrassment for the administration will unfold and if Obama's ratings will tumble to fresh record lows as a result.


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Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:22 | 4290695 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Well there's 2 options:

1. you quit your job and it becomes free

2. you get a second job to pay for it, noting that that will also trigger even higher fees.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:38 | 4290716 Unpopular Truth
Unpopular Truth's picture

Sudden Debt: Right on! Also, #2 means higher income taxes as well, making it a win-win for the administration ;)

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:43 | 4290732 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Free onesie pajamas with number 1

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:55 | 4290751 Deo vindice
Deo vindice's picture

Probably the single greatest impetus to an enlarged underground economy and thriving black market ever devised.

How many people are going to want to work for 'cash under the table' and how many businesses are going to want to accomodate them?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:18 | 4290809 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

'Obamacare Goes Live Today: Here Is The Next Big Problem' 

No one gives a fuck. Yeah...


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:29 | 4290833 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

"Two enrollees enter, one enrollee leaves."

"Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls..... it's DYING time."

In all seriousness and all of my typical ZH sarcasm aside, people are about to start DYING.  Real people.  Needlessly and at an extrordiary cost to everyone else who doesn't.  As with everything else this administration has touched, they'll relentlessly declare victory while reality is an obvious failure.


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:04 | 4290898 espirit
espirit's picture

Pay the toughest on the block "insurance", or pay a fine for not doing so.

Fucking Terrorists.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 15:06 | 4291164 Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Dear USSA,

You are elect communist organizer from Hawai'i, er Kenya, er Indonesia, who is complete unknown and cannot is even write own autobiographical text (Bill Ayers is ghost author). What are you expect!? Then you are elect second time!? Sorry, when stupid why so surprise!? Now please stop to spy on every country, take back you pilotless avionic kill machine, and to stop flood world market with worthless petro dollar.


Rest of World

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 15:34 | 4291221 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

The only rebuttal I can give to your comment (which I agree with) is this:

Obamacare NEVER enjoyed support of the American public.  Not when Obama first took office and proposed it, not when it was illegally jammed through Congress, not when it was upheld by the Supreme Court and certainly not now that the full horror is beginning to be realized.  It was never even close to 50% support on it's best day.  And we're pretty damned far from it's best day at this point, as you can imagine.

But yeah, people supporting the guy who supports the legislation they don't like and then complaining when that exact same legislation gets rammed down their throats by that exact same guy.... no, it doesn't get much more stupid than that.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:30 | 4291342 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

"most who have the free time to go through the trouble of enrolling likely don't have a source of disposable income."


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:10 | 4291559 markmotive
markmotive's picture

Perhaps legal weed will make the need for many prescriptions obsolete?

Shops in Colorado stocking up on the sticky-icky!

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 00:26 | 4292494 Woodhippie
Woodhippie's picture

+1 for a "sticky-icky" reference.  Goes by the name, "Devil's Lettuce" around these parts.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 02:02 | 4292598 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Here Is The Next Big Problem....HillaryCare ....the roots of Obamacare.    Remember your roots !   Looks like his mother...sickly makeup...wig ?


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 19:40 | 4291713 Spigot
Spigot's picture

NONE of them have the mental capacity to associate who they voted for with the coming ass rape they will be getting ... pitty that.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 20:45 | 4291741 philipat
philipat's picture

Business 1.01: A product or service is not sold until payment has been received. Of course, this does not apply to .Gov, where "Enrollment" simply means entering personal details into a (Less than secure) system. Experience in the online commerce space has shown that around 70% of items placed into the cart ("Enrollment") naver get converted into an actual sale by making payment.

Incidentally, to add to the list of options above:

3. Get sent to prison and it becomes free, together with "Board and lodging".

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 23:05 | 4292359 SonOfSoros
SonOfSoros's picture

Sorry NoDebt but the ACA did enjoy support of the American public.

Don't forget who bulk of Obama supporters are, the progressives and socialists who now form bulk of the American population. The only reason why the ACA has lost much support is as these progressives were slapped on their faces, by the harsh reality of the ACA.

Doesn't change the fact that majority of America are full of dumbasses though.

Praise the lords, I'm not there anymore. 

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 02:30 | 4292634 Popo
Popo's picture

Exactly right.   The thing is:  Americans actually thought they were voting for FREE healthcare.  They thought they were going to get a system like the UK has.   Most Americans have zero disposable income as it is.   When the reality of the ACA hit them with bills of $4000+ they suddenly realized what they had voted for.  Americans weren't thinking of CHEAPER healthcare, they wanted a freebie.   It turns out the ACA was a direct handout to the insurance and healthcare industry, and would ultimately reduce disposable income to ZERO (or less) for millions of Americans.  Now Americans are realizing how badly they've fucked up.  This will and must collapse the economy.  You can't take a family earning $50k per year and pull $4k out of their income and expect that family to consume anywhere NEAR what they were previously consuming. 

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 17:19 | 4291456 SF beatnik
SF beatnik's picture


I eagerly await the Boris TV show on RT

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:18 | 4290928 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"This is a big fucking deal man!" - Joe Biden

WASHINGTON (AP) — A Supreme Court justice has blocked implementation of portions of President Barack Obama's health care law that would have forced some religion-affiliated organizations to provide health insurance for employees that includes birth control.

Justice Sonia Sotomayor's decision came Tuesday night after a different effort by Catholic-affiliated groups from around the nation. Those groups rushed to the federal courts to stop Wednesday's start of portions of the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

Sotomayor acted on a request from an order of Catholic nuns in Colorado, whose request for a stay had been denied by the lower courts.

Sotomayor is giving the government until Friday morning to respond to her decision.

This is not from the Onion ;-)

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:05 | 4291029 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I'm noticing more and more stories sound like they're from the Onion


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:22 | 4291079 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It is said that fact is oftentimes stranger than fiction, although the "facts" coming out of D.C. lately are mostly fiction anyhow.........

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:10 | 4291565 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The Onion is the Matrix because their stories have become the New Normal.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 19:47 | 4291722 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

You know shit is fucked up when it is so difficult to distinguish irony and sarcasm from reality.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 01:29 | 4292565 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Reality is their illusion


Their fiction is the reality

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:08 | 4291855 Blano
Blano's picture

I was actually shocked a TeleNegro appointee did that.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 22:34 | 4292280 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The feminists are gonna keep screwin around with the separation of church & state and find themselves in Sotomayor's box at some point.

Or sumpin ;-)

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 15:54 | 4294074 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Don't believe it... Sonia is a fucking communist/statist/marxist/socialist and would never side with a religious organization.  The statists/socialists only "religion" is government and more of it.  They despise organized religion and see it as a threat to the "state".

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:51 | 4290997 Oldballplayer
Oldballplayer's picture

Yeah...the real power behind Barter Town was a freak and a retard.

Sounds about right.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:12 | 4291049 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

...was a freak and HIS retard.


Hmmm...Jarret, Obama...

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:59 | 4291015 CuttingEdge
CuttingEdge's picture

Someone should put an Obama Death Clock (like the debtclock) online - every poor bastard casualty of the ACA fiasco and the Kenyan turd who created the situation published.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 15:23 | 4291193 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Should we start off the count by including the civilian drone strike casualites overseas or just the domestic civilian casualties from Obamacare?

Nevermind.  I know the answer.  People getting killed overseas are never counted.  Neither is ambassador Stevens.  And, of course, US troop deaths should never be included in any count either.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:55 | 4291403 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Why you could even have a tab for "Drone Strikes on Wedding Parties"

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:31 | 4291086 hoos bin pharteen
hoos bin pharteen's picture

If you think that's fun, wait till they get confirmed for benefits but the doctor refuses to accept their Obamacarepolicy.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:13 | 4291572 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

The real horror begins when they find out the insurance doesn't kick in until the deductible has been met.

I hope nobody choose the Bronze plan to save money cause by the time you've met the deductible there's gonna be no change in anyone's pockets to spend on Christmas.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 00:23 | 4292491 Woodhippie
Woodhippie's picture

Absolutely agree ND. 

We have opted not to touch Obamacare or any other health insurance.  We go straight to the doctor on rare occasions and pay a discounted cash price.  No paperwork, no declines, no reimbersment wait, no co-pay, no deductable, no frickin' headache. 

Should say that we have no major health issues.  So I understand it doesn't work for everyone.


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:45 | 4290984 FredFlintstone
FredFlintstone's picture

That would undermine Social Security and Medicare thereby accelerating the death spiral.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 10:59 | 4293052 mraptor
mraptor's picture

That's how it worked in Eastern Europe when it was socialist .... it was "free" :)... but if you want healtcare you have to pay under the table... welcome to the Socialism .. in fact it was not only healthcare..but everything.. You couldn't own a bussness, but everybody was making favors and deals for cash ... behind the Iron curtain the black market could have been probably bigger than the official one


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:44 | 4290734 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:24 | 4291067 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Excuse me, as fees and taxes rise to pay for this massive unsustainable health insurance horror there will be less disposable income. Then you have Social Security, Pensions, etc.....It's obvious that this whole incompetent medling of Government as they try to control society and the economy will not end well. Expect civil unrest within the next couple of years.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 06:02 | 4292730 Tom_333
Tom_333's picture

Welcome to Socialism! Forward!

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:39 | 4290719 Thing1Thing2
Thing1Thing2's picture

3.  Obamacare is a failure.  Free loaders will demand coverage and get it from Uncle sam at no cost.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:49 | 4290745 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Of course it's not a failure for Obama. The point was to give free health care to large numbers of people. (with the rest of us paying the freight)If you look at the original projections it was 22 million new people on Medicaid and 9 million uninsured covered by insurance they pay for. (In most cases subsidized)With half the states opting out of Medicaid they will be lucky to hit 10 million new welfare takers. (even though they work hard to force people on to Medicaid)The question I have is how many of these 2.1 million who may have signed up to pay are NEW insured and how many are just using the website and already had insurance? Looks to me like we screwed up the healthcare system for a strange attempt to increase the Democratic party voter roles. Strange thing about people is most of them would never wander next door and steal their neighbors lawn mower but if the government will pick their neighbors pocket for them that's alright.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:12 | 4290789 ZeroPoint
ZeroPoint's picture

That's exactly right. All it does is directly cost shift the cost of the poor unto the remaining middle class. Rich people will pay the penalty, and go to private doctors, paying cash.


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:34 | 4290839 new game
new game's picture

what if you dont sign up and don't give a shit?

what if you are healthy, live healthy and are intentionally uninsured?

what if you oppt out and laugh as you read this stupidity?

what if life is one big fucking ponzi ass joke of fools being gamed cause they are a greater fool thinking they are fucking someone else til they realize they are the mark?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:55 | 4290888 Thing1Thing2
Thing1Thing2's picture

"what if you oppt out and laugh as you read this stupidity?"

You be breaking the law and will be found guilty.  Obamacare has ways to terminate your life either by Lethal Injection, Electrocution, Lethal Gas, Firing Squad or Hanging.  This is why is it called the affordable heath care act.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:06 | 4290910 espirit
espirit's picture


Orlando is advertising it as the "Affordable Car Act".

(and I thought I was getting a new Hundai)

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:09 | 4291552 new game
new game's picture

lol/sarc off to respond-affordable meaning a penalty that far outweighs the cost of the care provided:)

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 00:14 | 4292479 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

In between ACA and the people will be the FED Melon Yellin funding.

Expect the FED Yellin to pick up the healthcare bills on a temporary basis starting in mid-2014 ( to allow for the midterm election ).

To capture the upside it will be re-named Yellin'ACA.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:55 | 4291003 Neo
Neo's picture

We are all criminals now.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:30 | 4291083 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

'There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.'
-Ayn Rand-

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:38 | 4291100 whirlaway
whirlaway's picture

The problem we have now is the exact opposite - so many crimes are considered to be OK.  How many of the perpetrators of the financial crisis of 2008 have been charged with a crime, let alone tried or convicted?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:15 | 4291573 new game
new game's picture

by psycological definition:antisocial behavior is behavior outside the laws of society.

antisocial behavior-kinda like that one...

actions creating protest defined as antisocial.

join in and see if you get a kick out of it.

middle finger up as I lip sinc fuck you...

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 19:55 | 4291730 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

If you aren't connected, crimes are most definitely NOT okay. If you're part of the 1%, you pay a little fine. Part of the 99%, you're doing time.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 06:03 | 4292728 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Friends of uncle Sam don't get charged...

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 05:00 | 4292683 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Exactly right! I did not know Rand wrote that but that is my observation. I live in a heavily regulated industry and i assure you everyone is a criminal on some point of the law. 

It's kind of like going out to the interstate and changing the speed limit to 25mph then setting up the speed traps. So many criminals, so little time! So much revenue!

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:00 | 4291844 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

New game, 

The way the law is written currently, they can only collect the fine if you are owed a tax refund.  There is no enforcement power in ACA to collect.  So make sure you are not entitled to a tax refund.  That will work for a year or two until they close that loophole and increase the size of the IRS police force.  They already have purchased the bullets.  

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:11 | 4291567 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Where's that big coin Krugman was talking about? Now would be a good time to cash it in.
( I wonder what the service fee would be. )

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 00:32 | 4292512 Woodhippie
Woodhippie's picture

Not everyone that takes that option is rich, spoken by someone that is not rich and paying the penalty, going to private doctor, and paying cash.


Want to point out though, I agree with your comment about shifting the cost.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:41 | 4291105 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Strange thing about people is most of them would never wander next door and steal their neighbors lawn mower but if the government will pick their neighbors pocket for them that's alright.


It's not strange at all - stealing my lawnmower would get you shot in the head. Risk. Voting for a group to come steal my lawnmower protects the thief and they still get my lawnmower. All socialism, all .gov is and ever will be is a codified looting program.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 05:00 | 4292684 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Rafter, read the fourth paragraph and you will feel brilliant, my friend...and you should.

Man can live and satisfy his wants only by ceaseless labor; by the ceaseless application of his faculties to natural resources. This process is the origin of property.

But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder.

Now since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain -- and since labor is pain in itself -- it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work. History shows this quite clearly. And under these conditions, neither religion nor morality can stop it.

When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor.

It is evident, then, that the proper purpose of law is to use the power of its collective force to stop this fatal tendency to plunder instead of to work. All the measures of the law should protect property and punish plunder.

But, generally, the law is made by one man or one class of men. And since law cannot operate without the sanction and support of a dominating force, this force must be entrusted to those who make the laws.

This fact, combined with the fatal tendency that exists in the heart of man to satisfy his wants with the least possible effort, explains the almost universal perversion of the law. Thus it is easy to understand how law, instead of checking injustice, becomes the invincible weapon of injustice. It is easy to understand why the law is used by the legislator to destroy in varying degrees among the rest of the people, their personal independence by slavery, their liberty by oppression, and their property by plunder. This is done for the benefit of the person who makes the law, and in proportion to the power that he holds.

- Frederick Bastiat


Thu, 01/02/2014 - 09:06 | 4292819 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Great quote from Bastiat "The Law" Freedom Guy. Risks are far better handled when one accepts this harsh reality and knows where we are in the cycle.

When I was discussing politics in 2006 with a mentor, he netted out by saying big gov/corporations "they're taking it out of the little guy". Boy was he correct. He also taught me to be "quick to compliment, slow to criticise". He is still a great mentor and gentleman out of Boston.

Your starting to hear things out of politicians like Jeb Bush about the big prohibiting competition. Anti trust happens when gov cant push taxes up any longer via inflation and cannot collect it from the club of cronies. It doesnt happen out of the goodness of heart. We're near that point and will see these kinds of things in election cycles by 2020. In between, invest slow and cautiously, using some time to learn about tax sheltering. A few more years of stagflation is nobody's picnic.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:38 | 4290967 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

I will NEVER enroll and I will NEVER pay the fine, they will not be allowed to force their fraud on me.

I am the living man, not some legal fiction.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:59 | 4291407 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Same here.

The power to refuse is the only solution to this madness.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:58 | 4292206 mess nonster
mess nonster's picture

Even if I wanted to sign up, I can't afford to. According to what I learned by goping to, and several other websites, the bronze insurance plan for my wife and myself would cost roughly $720 month. But of course, we get a subsidy, and end up only having to pay a small premium of $165/month. which sounds great, except I don't have an extra $165/month to pay out. So we looked into the expanded Medicaid program, since we're pretty much working poor. We own our house (mortgage). So, under Medicaid rules, if either of us get sick, Medicaid can come along and seize our house as payment for the medical bill.

Yeah, I don't think so.

I'm not signing up, and I'm not paying the penalty. I'm taking care of my health or looking for black market medical care. The irony of this is that somehow the economics will make black market care CHEAPER than care under Obamacare.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 05:10 | 4292688 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I just got a new notice from the IRS. I seem to get one each year even though I generally beat them. I am tired of them and I wonder how long before I say "Enough!" and refuse to comply? I have property and just debts to discharge so there is risk to resistance.

The problem is when you have property, children, spouse and maybe friends or business associates that would be harmed, resistance has a very large price tag, one you might not want to pay.

I think this is the basis of the huge power the State holds over us in the USSA. I believe if given a chance they will make an example of you or me to show the very high price of noncompliance.

Having said that I began looking into whether or not territories of the U.S pay Federal income tax. I am looking for a middle ground escape.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 08:56 | 4292802 kayl
kayl's picture

@crash overide

I've written many times on this blog about debt and the discharge of debt. You need to disconnect yourself from all the arguing. There is no money, there is no debt. There are only debt notes and the discharge of debt.

What all this means is that you have to change yourself and your slave view of the world. Remember "there is no spoon." 

So the US has been bankrupt since 1933. A system of fiat currency was set up to circulate liability to the buyer, seller, buyer, banker, depositor, in an endless loop. The system imitates and facilitates monetary exchange, but it is set up to exchange "value." Kind of like a nonexistent abstraction.

The Uniform Commercial Code is a set of laws that supports the commerce in a bankrupt society. In a bankrupt world, the first thing you must do is accept the debt for value and then send it on its way back to the sender. See, the crime here is impeding the circulation of debt.

The second law of the UCC is that you can discharge your debt by 1) sending in your debt notes or 2) sending in the money order or coupon filled out that they sent to you. I suggest you learn how to discharge your debt safely. In this crazy system, the sender of the bill or presentment must send you the money order to discharge it. Isn't that wonderful?

In this system it is a crime to argue or create controversy. Why would you run around and argue about discharging a debt when someone already sent you the money order to discharge it? Duh!

Write "Accepted for value and returned for value, discharge, settlement, and closure of the account" on every page and send it all back.

These guys are criminals. They can drag you through the courts and challenge you. But get down to business and learn the UCC at Cornell Law edu. Remember to learn everything forwards and backwards. Up is down, and down is up. You need to interpret the laws reflexively. These guys are Janus, the genius of doublespeak. So interpret the UCC laws accordingly.

Stay serene.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:08 | 4291032 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The point was to drive private insurers out of business.  When all that remains is the government, single payer will be there to take over. Expect Hillary to implement after a couple more years of Obamacare disaster.

Remember: Obama says health care is a right.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:38 | 4291361 Drifter
Drifter's picture

"Expect Hillary to implement [single payer] after a couple more years of Obamacare disaster."

I doubt zerocare will make it thru 2014. I'd give it 6 months.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 11:04 | 4293086 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Obamacare will be modified, probably for the worse, but it will survive.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:58 | 4291410 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

If Healthcare is a "right", why does anyone have to pay? Let the Government just print the money needed.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 17:33 | 4291460 DaveA
DaveA's picture

This won't even require an Act of Congress; the President will just direct CMS to let any uninsured person sign up for Medicaid. Then everyone is "covered" and no one goes bankrupt because of medical bills. I signed my daughter up for Medicaid after a playground accident, and it paid all her bills.

Of course this won't help people like Deamonte Driver, a boy "covered" by Medicaid whose life could have been saved by the timely pulling of a tooth.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:00 | 4291848 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

I don't think medicaid covers dental work.  

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 05:15 | 4292693 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I think the Obama administration and Democrats, in general are in a huge "Oh, shit!" moment.

They are like plumbers who are well into deep brain surgery and realize they don't have a damned clue as to what they are doing. It is a sort of Chinese finger trap for them.

I think you and others are correct in what will happen and frankly any rational single payor system will be better than this Frankenstein ACA they created. I hate ACA and single payor but the full socialist system willl seem relatively painless compared to medical bones that are being broken as we speak.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:51 | 4290728 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

OT (though on theme): @SuddenDebt, how happy are you about the healthcare system in the country where you live? according to The Guardian it's quite good:

" of the best healthcare systems in Europe. Dating from 1945, its quality is largely down to its sponsorship by competing mutuals, and provisioned by a mixture of state and non-profit hospitals. Each mutual is funded by the state, the funding dependent on its membership numbers.

Like the system in France, citizens pay and swipe a health card at the point of care. They are then reimbursed between 50% and 75% of the costs by their mutuelle/mutualiteit scheme. Some GPs and hospitals have local arrangements with mutuals to reduce payments at the point of care.

Also as in France, most citizens also sign up for mutual insurance to top up their healthcare reimbursements (complimentaire).

As in Germany, Belgian citizens can visit any healthcare establishment they wish - quite literally walking in off the street, although referrals from private or practice-linked GPs are increasingly being used, and language pays a major part in choices."

sounds familiar?

perhaps the Belgian system works because it's strongly based on mutuals, which as a company form tend to be more gentle than the typical testosterone-ego-and-liquidity fuelled for-profit stock company?

perhaps there are parts of the economy which aren't well served... by very aggressive forms of capitalism? have a look at the global pharma industry. do you like what you see?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:06 | 4290781 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

."the typical testosterone-ego-and-liquidity fuelled [SIC] for-profit stock company"

For essential health care, that's the core issue right there. You (a doctor or medical facility) want to make money with the elective cosmetic surgery crowd, knock yourself out.

Sick care is a systemic cancer, in and out of the "industry". Health care, like everything else in life, requires the involvement of the individual. That's not going to happen with sheep.

Somewhere along the line Americans have to become personally involved in their own welfare, be it healthcare, their ability to make a living and pro-active protection of their natural rights. The government has made a concerted effort to destroy this and keep it destroyed.

I don't have an answer, but having the US government involved is not an option  - it is too incompetent, corrupt and genocidally inclined. Perhaps a co-op, and maybe that is what a "mutual" is.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 05:16 | 4292695 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Remus, nice post. I like the part where you say, "I don't have an answer...". This is humility and honesty at it's best. This is also something you will never hear any leftist say. They always have an answer. Even if the leftist is a barista at Starbuck's they are sure about what healthcare, energy, banking, etc. really needs. The Left is based upon a fundamental arrogance that they know how to run everything.

What I like about the libertarian right is that we actually say the same thing as you and therefore we do not try to run much of anything. We leave it to those who do know or are even discovering how to. It is an essential part of freedom that moves civilization forward.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:53 | 4290749 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

3. Learn an "under the table job" and ride the free train to black market glory!

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:14 | 4291055 skeeterpi
skeeterpi's picture

My policy was cancelled, the O-care site wants me to pay 50% more premium with a 30% increase in deductible. I said no. I signed myself and 2 kids with short term insurance with accident coverage for $172/month. 70% lower deductible, and I can see any doctor I wish. FYI

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:59 | 4291414 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Understood. Yet, those costs are so high you may spend more on insurance than on actual medical needs.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 00:09 | 4292473 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

That is how it is supposed to work in about 19 years out of twenty.  Then in tha twentieth year, somebody in your family gets really, really sick.  The month in the hospital and the three surgeries cost $200,000.  That gets paid for out of the premiums you paid during the lucky 19 years.

It is always cheaper not to pay for insurance in the years when you don't need it.


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 15:50 | 4291242 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

No one questions whether a Pharmasist deserves of an average salary of $120,000 based on their duties and responsibilities in relation to other comperable professions, we only ask "how much more will we have to pay"? A reduction to $90,000 for this profession alone would result in a savings of over $3 billion a year. What is that extra $30,000 spent on, anyways? The 100th pair of shoes, the 15 bathroom of a 5 bedroom house? 

False barriers to entry and a lack of true competition is what ails healthcare. The ability to memorize all 206 bones in the human body is forgotten 3 days after the final, but failing to pass the test eliminates you under the contention that you are not sutiable for heathcare. Most nurses could easily do the job of most of the physicians they serve as most work is very repedative and lacks any need for real skill or creativity. Anyone who has seen the sitcom "Scrubs" knows the score, except now most answers are available on the interent. 

Like the government, this is not a revenue problem, it's a spending problem based on what we as Americans deserve as a salary commenserate with our duties and responsibilities and not our false certifications and pretentions. 

You can raise the minimum wage to $100 an hour but the cost of everything will just rise in proportion.  $1 in Japan buys you JPN 105 of goods. JPN 105 buys you $1.3 worth of Euro in Europe. If you believe in capaitalism beyond the ability to take advantage, what matters is free and unfettered competition in every aspect. The more you pretend that competiton exists because you say so, the more the economy fails. You can be just as happy with $90,000 as you are with $120,000 if those shoes you want are 25% on sale. 


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 17:31 | 4291473 dryam
dryam's picture

I get the clear sense you have no idea what you are talking about.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:41 | 4291625 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

holy crap! is that you barry, you dick smoking fag!  it sounds like you:

" I mean, I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money."

you think you can dictate to me how much is too much???? I'm gonna spend that extra $30k on my family. and only me and my family knows what's best for us. your ridiculous example of a Mrs. Marcos type buying so many shoes is a cheap diversion. Extra pay, beyond the amount required to pay all the bills, will be spent on PM's, on parents and grand parents, or reserves for a rainy day. The thought that some group (or committee) is going to tell me what my maximum pay should be, is the freakin day i totally bail on you aholes and go full-on underground.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:54 | 4291639 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's mostly FAKE. If you somehow are paid $200,000 for a no-skilled job (like a pharmacist for one of the "drug" store chains like Rite-aid), it's because you or some other individuals in your work group has figured out how to STEAL from the rest of us.

Fuck you and all the rest of you thieving motherfuckers!

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 10:56 | 4293045 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Is there a difference between the "a [no-skilled] pharmacist for one of the "drug" store chains like Rite-aid" and a pharmacist that works in a compounding apothecary? From a licensing perspective, I don't think so in the US anyway.

I am not a pharmacist BTW.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 20:32 | 4291803 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

I said free and unfettered competition, not salary by committee. In fact, it is exactly salary by committee that is part of the problem. It's very hard to describe concisely without practice and refinement, but a nurse/teacher/cop/et al., with a master's degree will likely forever make more, regardless even of years of experience, than a nurse/teacher/cop/et al with a bachelor's degree by virute of the parchment alone without consideration of what actual benefit that extra degree brings, where it came from or what was learned that is not otherwise readily availble through experience. The same for tenure, but to a lesser and more understandable degree. A committee has decided that in the interest of "fairness" a piece of paper is one of the only objective (non-argueable) measures available to delinetate one employee from another. We talk of a glass celieing and equal pay for equal work between the sexes but ignore the differentiations that are attendant to them (degrees and tenure and other non-competative measures). Don't tell me what school you went to, or your parents' former claims to royalty, show me you can do the work better than your peers. 

I'll concede the issue of what you spend and on what is your decision and yours alone. How many shoes you own or bathrooms you need is a cheap diversion. I meant to address that anything that is waste is by definition not efficient and the more efficient anything is, the better it functions, but my ability to explain it without crossing over into personal privelege is flawed. Probably with good reason.   

I hold to the fact that the 269,600 odd registered pharmacists making $90k instead of $120k equals $3 billion. I said if you make $120k instead of $90k because you have construct a false barrier to competition, then you are choking the life of that which you depend. 

Money must come from somewhere. Healthcare premiums, deductibles and costs are about to skyrocket not because those who were without are now those within (they've been here all along) but becuase of waste, fraud and abuse.

We need not be the society of ants and bees that we are heading towards but a continued society of freedom and security if, like those insects, we strive (not necessarily succeed) for efficiency and competiton in every aspect of our lives. 

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 05:33 | 4292708 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Surfer, I get what you mean. Here is the problem in the artificial government economy. That highly paid pharmacist has to do 6 years of school to count pills and fight with your insurance company. However, the pharmacy chain wants to maximize profit so they hire lots of pharm techs to do the low value pill counting and have the pharmacist sign off. Again, to meet requirements of the law, it has to be done this way.

You can see a PA for half the price of a doctor in value, although your insurance company may get billed the same for the visit. Personally, I would see a PA or NP with 20 years of experience over a brand new MD. In a rational system and PA or NP could become a doctor through a series of steps and OJT. However, in a regulatory environment you cannot do that.

All this good "regulatory" stuff comes with high price tags. One of the price tags you do not see is it tends to stifle innovation, as well. It greatly hinders innovation.

One of the reasons that your office visit with a quick lab and prescription costs so much is because there are a raft of people who have to have many certifications to see you, take the lab, interpret and get you your presctiption...all by rule. So, the price of a pharmacist is what it takes to get someone a decade ahead or more to be willing to do many years of education, intening, testing, certification, registration and government approvals to count out those 30 Prozac for you.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:53 | 4291399 Cattender
Cattender's picture

thank you president Obumba.. happy new year to you and the wookie!

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 17:15 | 4291449 Cattender
Cattender's picture

thank you for saving America! Golf well Great Warrior..

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 17:25 | 4291465 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

FREE is Medicaid. Be still my beating heart, which is closer to the truth than many will realize until their beating heart becomes still.



Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:53 | 4292186 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Once you get so used to not paying for anything when a bill becomes due it's almost natural to presume someone else will pay it.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 14:39 | 4293816 drendebe10
drendebe10's picture

Obamacare Should Remind Us We Are Not 'Subjects,' We Are People
Laura Hollis is a professor at the University of Notre Dame
November 20, 2013|10:42 am


The unveiling of the dictatorial debacle that is Obamacare absolutely flabbergasts me. It is stunning on so many levels, but the most shocking aspect of it for me is watching millions of free Americans stand idly by while this man, his minions in Congress and his cheerleaders in the press systematically dismantle our Constitution, steal our money, and crush our freedoms.   The President, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid (with no small help from Justice John Roberts) take away our health care, and we allow it. They take away our insurance, and we allow it. They take away our doctors, and we allow it.They charge us thousands of dollars more a year, and we allow it. They make legal products illegal, and we allow it. They cripple our businesses, and we allow it.They announce by fiat that we must ignore our most deeply held beliefs – and we allow it.
Where is your spine, America?

Yes, I know people are complaining. I read the news on the internet. I read blogs. I have a Twitter feed. So what? People in the Soviet Union complained. People in Cuba complain. People in China complain (quietly). Complaining isn't the same thing as doing anything about it. In fact, much of the complaining that we hear sounds like resignation: Wow. This sucks. Oh well, this is the way things are. Too bad.
Perhaps you need reminding of a few important facts. Here goes:
1. The President is not a king. Barack Obama does not behave like a President, an elected official, someone who realizes that he works for us. He behaves like a king, a dictator – someone who believes that his own pronouncements have the force of law, and who thinks he can dispense with the law's enforcement when he deigns to do so. And those of us who object? How dare we? Racists!
And while he moves steadily "forward" with his plans to "fundamentally transform" the greatest country in human history, he distracts people with cheap, meaningless trivialities, like "free birth control pills"! (In fact, let's face it: this administration's odd obsession with sex in general - Birth control! Abortion! Sterilization! Gay guys who play basketball! -- is just plain weird. Since when did the leader of the free world care so much about how people have sex, who they have it with, and what meds they use when they have it? Does he have nothing more important to concern himself with?)
2. It isn't just a failed software program; it is a failed philosophy. People are marveling that was such a spectacular failure. Well, if one is only interested in it as a product launch, I've explained some of the reasons for that here. But the larger point is that it isn't a software failure, or even a product failure; it is a philosophy failure. I have said this before: Obama is not a centrist; he is a central planner. And this – all of it: the disastrous computer program, the hundreds of millions of dollars wasted, the lies, the manipulation of public opinion, the theft of the public's money and property, and freedom (read insurance, and premiums, and doctors) -- IS what central planning looks like. The central premise of central planning is that a handful of wunderkinds with your best interests at heart (yeah, right) know better than you what's good for you. The failure of such a premise and the misery it causes have been clear from the dawn of humanity. Kings and congressmen, dictators and Dear Leaders, potentates, princes and presidents can all fall prey to the same imperial impulses: "we know what is good for the 'the people.'  And they are always wrong. There is a reason that the only times communism has really been tried have been after wars, revolutions, or coups d'état. You have to have complete chaos for people to be willing to accept the garbage that centralized planning produces. Take the Soviet Union, for example. After two wars, famine, and the collapse of the Romanov dynasty, why wouldn't people wait in line for hours to buy size 10 shoes? Or settle for the gray matter that passed for meat in the grocery stores?  But communism's watered-down cousin, socialism, isn't much better. Ask the Venezuelans who cannot get toilet paper. Toilet paper. ¡Viva la Revolución! Contrary to what so many who believe in a "living Constitution" say, the Founding Fathers absolutely understood this. That is why the Constitution was set up to limit government power. (Memo to the President: the drafters of the Constitution deliberately didn't say "what government had to do on your behalf.") They understood that that was the path to folly, fear, and famine.)
3. Obama is deceitful. Just as the collapse of the computer program should not surprise anyone, neither should we be shocked that the President lied about his healthcare plan. Have any of you been paying attention over the past few years? Obama has made no secret of his motivations or his methods. The philosophies which inspire him espouse deceit and other vicious tactics. (Don't take my word for it: read Saul Alinsky.) Obama infamously 
told reporter Richard Wolffe, "You know, I actually believe my own bullshit." He has refused to be forthcoming about his past (where are his academic records?). His own pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, told author Ed Klein, that Obama said to him, "You know what your problem is? You have to tell the truth."
Did Obama lie when he said dozens of times, "If you like you plan, you can keep it. Period!"? Of course he did. That's what he does.
4. The media is responsible. And had the media been doing their jobs, we would have known a lot of this much, much earlier.
The press is charged with the sacred responsibility of protecting the people from the excesses of government. Our press has been complicit, incompetent, or corrupt. Had they vetted this man in 2008, as they would have a Republican candidate, we would have known far more about him than we do, even now. Had they pressed for more details about Obamacare, Congress' feet would have been held to the fire. Had they done their jobs about Eric Holder, Fast and Furious, Benghazi, the IRS scandal, NSA spying - or any of the other myriad betrayals of the public trust that this administration has committed, Obama would likely have lost his 2012 reelection campaign. (A fact that even The Washington Post has tacitly acknowledged. Well done, fellas! Happy now?)
Instead, they turned a blind eye, even when they knew he was lying, abusing power, disregarding the limits of the Constitution. It was only when he began to spy on them, and when the lies were so blatant that the lowest of low-information voters could figure it out that they realized they had to report on it. (Even in the face of blatant, deliberate and repeated lies,The New York Times has the audacity to tell us that the President "misspoke.") They have betrayed us, abandoned us, and deceived us.
5. Ted Cruz was right. So was Sarah Palin. The computer program is a disaster. The insurance exchanges are a disaster. What's left? The healthcare system itself. And this, of necessity, will be a 
disaster, too.
Millions of people have lost their individual insurance plans. In 2015, millions more will lose their employer-provided coverage (a fact which the Obama administration also knew, and admitted elsewhere).
The exorbitant additional costs that Obamacare has foisted on unsuspecting Americans are all part of a plan of wealth confiscation and redistribution. That is bad enough. But it will not end there.
When the numbers of people in the system and the corresponding demand for care vastly exceed the cost projections (and they will, make no mistake), then the rationing will start. Not only choice at that point, but quality and care itself will go down the tubes. And then will come the decisions made by the Independent Payment Advisory Board about what care will be covered (read "paid for") and what will not.
That's just a death panel, put politely. In fact, progressives are already greasing the wheels for acceptance of that miserable reality as well. They're spreading the lie that it will be about the ability of the dying to refuse unwanted or unhelpful care. Don't fall for that one, either. It will be about the deaths that inevitably result from decisions made by people other than the patients, their families, and their physicians. (Perhaps it's helpful to think of their assurances this way: "If you like your end-of-life care, you can keep your end-of-life-care.")
6. We are not SUBJECTS. (or, Nice Try, the Tea Party Isn't Going Away). We have tolerated these incursions into our lives and livelihoods too long already. There is no end to the insatiable demand "progressives" have to remake us in their image. Today it is our insurance, our businesses, our doctors, our health care. Tomorrow some new crusade will be announced that enables them to take over other aspects of our formerly free lives.
I will say it again: WE ARE NOT SUBJECTS. Not only is the Tea Party right on the fiscal issues, but it appears that they are more relevant than ever. We fought a war once to prove we did not want to be the subjects of a king, and the Boston Tea Party was just a taste of the larger conflict to come. If some people missed that lesson in history class, we can give them a refresher. Call your representative, your senator, your candidate and tell them: "We are not subjects. You work for us. And if the word 'REPEAL' isn't front and center in your campaign, we won't vote for you. Period."
Laura Hollis is an attorney and teaches entrepreneurship and business law at the University of Notre Dame. She resides in Indiana with her husband and two children.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:24 | 4290696 CH1
CH1's picture

Joe Average doesn't want to DO anything.

The Obama-ites truly belived that their guy's magic would make Joe arise and follow.

Confronting reality can be a bitch.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:12 | 4291295 Bioscale
Bioscale's picture

In Europe the government puts you automatically into the government regulated healtcare system managed by corporations when you are BORN. You can not opt out. And if you don't pay you owe the money to a private corporation which takes care about collecting the fees. The executor will sell your house and stuff for settling the DEBT if you don't pay those fees. You will pay unless you leave the country - and in EU this is a law across countries. I see the US governemnt want that too. Tax on life. For breathing.

And people still call it insurance. Joe Average does not fucking care.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:43 | 4291369 duo
duo's picture

Here's what will happen.  When you show up at the hospital and the coverage you thought you had doesn't exist, there will be an "Obamacare Emergency program" where you sign over 9.5% of your earnings to the Feds for life in exchange for all bills being paid by the feds.   I think you will have 2-3 million people signing up instantly.

Then this program is expanded later in the year, and suddenly the whole country is under single payer in exchange for a 9.5% income tax (no deductions).


Whether you get care or not is another issue (think VA).  But at least you will be "insured".

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:34 | 4291612 new game
new game's picture

single payer flat tax totally makes sense via medcare/caid or whatever.

govcare, cradle to craper...

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:27 | 4290701 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

How did they escape the plantation to make this video?

 ObamaCare 'Drop It Like Its Hot'



Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:32 | 4290702 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Not to worry, your Constitutional rights just vanished if you live within 100 miles of the US border:

Constitution 'exemption' zone spans 100 miles inland of US border– judge

A US federal judge has reaffirmed an Obama administration policy granting officials the authority to search Americans' laptops, citing a controversial premise that makes citizens within 100 miles of the border eligible for a police check.

District Judge Edward Korman made his ruling in New York on Tuesday, more than three years after the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) filed suit. The ACLU claimed that - since Americans put so much of their lives on their computers, cell phones, and other devices – border officials should have reasonable suspicion before sifting through someone's personal files.

Attorneys argued that searches conducted without reasonable suspicion are a violation of the Fourth Amendment, which protects against unreasonable search and seizure.

Not so, according to Judge Korman. In his decision Tuesday he argued that the area 100 miles inland falls under a “border exemption.

No mainstream US media carried this very important story.  The farce grows everyday, far faster than TWTR's price, the Fed's balance sheet, Obama's failures or the irrelevance of the US media

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:39 | 4290726 malikai
malikai's picture

Bullish for spy 'implants'.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 08:06 | 4292774 DosZap
DosZap's picture

LOL,WHERE in the hell can you get an MRI for $700.00 ?????????????.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:48 | 4290738 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Just the first of many judicial decisions from the Khazarian-controlled federal benches that are really going to fuck with "rights" this year.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:54 | 4290752 NIHILIST CIPHER

Checkpoints 100 miles inland in Texas have been the norm for some time now, maybe two years. Mexican nationals ask to see your papers and search vehicles going through . Welcome to Amerika.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:24 | 4290818 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

I have family across the country.  I've heard of checkpoints throughout Maine and New Hampshire, at random locations in North Dakota and Montana, and Border Patrol agents claiming unheard-of authority in northern Minnesota.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 22:37 | 4292297 DOT
DOT's picture

Undoubtedly, this exemption will be extended to apply to all borders including trade zones and all international airports and navigable waterways. An area of about 100square miles will be left as a Constitutionally protected zone. The zone will be within the borders of a missile test range.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:59 | 4291650 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan are really all they need.  Add a couple of Quislings, et voila: 5 = majority. 

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 20:13 | 4291719 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Don't get any hopes up ... ALL 9 of the Supremes have Khazarian konnections:

  4 Jesuits
  2 Catholics (now beholden to a Jesuit Pope)
  3 Ashkenazis

Game over!

And there's no point waiting for the next election, either. As someone pointed out to me yesterday: "most of the potential challengers to Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2016 - in both the Democratic primaries and a general election - are Roman Catholics". For example, Christie is a Jesuit.

The Khazarians started the United States for a specific reason...and now they intend to finish the job.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:50 | 4290747 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Screw that judge. See you at the Supreme Court ... Oh wait a second. Did you see that fat lesbian ring in the new year? We are screwed.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:22 | 4291073 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Fucking Ridiculous

Using data provided by the U.S. Census Bureau, the ACLU has determined that nearly 2/3 of the entire US population (197.4 million people) live within 100 miles of the US land and coastal borders

Unbelievable how debased and corrupt the practice of law has become in this country... isn't that right Mr. Chief Justice Roberts??

Corrupt, corrupt, corrupt.  I read somewhere that 80 or 90 percent of judges in the US are corrupt and I believe it.  No sound money, no sound jurisprudence, no moral framework = hmmm, let's see; Fucked at the Pump?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:46 | 4291117 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I, for one, can fit 10 Kilos of coke and up to 4 illegal Mexicans in my laptop. You know what this is? The Camel's nose in the tent and no more. Next year, 200 miles. Then the whole Nation - spreading like a bacteria.  No other reason for this searching of laptops 'near the border.' None.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 22:35 | 4292292 fedupwhiteguy
fedupwhiteguy's picture

they keep moving in small increments. and you're right. they will keep increasing the distance until they have the whole country "near the border". I say we pick a time and place (in the very near future) and make a freakin stand!

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 05:41 | 4292711 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

What is the Minority Report on this issue?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:29 | 4290703 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

I would imagine the 2 million that signed up will be the 2 million sickest people. Now how will that work?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:49 | 4290742 dobermangang
dobermangang's picture

The time to see a doctor now might be so long, you'll have to make appointments before you are sick.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:33 | 4290707 nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...two million "enrolled" and four million (or higher) cancelled outright.

They're in the hole by at least two million while shouting from the rooftops of what a success it is. I guess its all in how one defines "success".

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:54 | 4290758 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Nice link. I have forwarded on to many.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:17 | 4290804 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Spread the word far and wide!

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:19 | 4290939 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

The prospect of getting sick under the wonderful O'Care reminds me of the old joke about the hunter who stops to piss behind a tree and a snake bites him on his pecker.  His buddy calls 911 and asks what to do. The operator explains how to remove the venom and the guy hangs up.  The other guy says 'What'd they say!'  and his friend replies 'You're gonna die man, you're gonna die...'

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:33 | 4291089 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

That's why I make it a habit to never hunt with Phil Robertson.........

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:59 | 4291646 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

If his buddy was Barry, he would have nothing to worry about. This is what ObamaCare is all about!

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:45 | 4290985 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

My only hope is the 4 million were Obama voters, if there is any justice left in this world.

Those of us left in the middle class are very tired now and have very little left to give. We cannot support the deluge of those pouring into Medicare nor can we support the increasing stream of uninsured using the ER for primary care. I'm watching this implode sitting in a front row seat. Everyday I'm continually amazed how sick patients are that walk through our doors. These patients require complicated and expensive care. They are demanding more and more from a system that now is questioning how to stay financially viable. Name a business that is mandated by the federal government to provide a service when the recipient will not or cannot pay. I really don't know how this will eventually play out in the end but it seems quite hopeless to me.


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:37 | 4291098 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

However, for those who expected Obamacare to be a deus ex with zero payment at all, which appears to have been the case at nearly a majority level

Wait, what?  Half the low info drones thought this was going to be free?  AH ha ha ha , WTF?  No wonder they all got angry at me when I told them it was BS.  We weren't even talking about the same thing...

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:33 | 4290708 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Idiots that signed up for this disaster deserve what they get. Civil disobediance people, tell Obama to shove this tax plan up his ass. I keep a minimum of cash in my account so they'll have to garnish my paycheck to get their penalty, which I'm sure they'll get around to unless we can collectively say NO to this monstrosity and get congress to stop this bullshit.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 15:30 | 4291206 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

It's not even that tough.  They can only collect the penalty out of any tax refund due to you.  If you underwithold throughout the year you won't be due a refund and they can't collect the penalty.

This is not a penalty they can collect by the normal forcible means like garnishing wages and putting a levy on your accounts.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 11:36 | 4290714 NIHILIST CIPHER

I have a friend who will have no coverage starting today ONLY because the site does not work in the state in which she resides. Her pharmacy bill is around $700 dollars a month, guess she will pay ALL of that cost out of her pocket on 20K income per year from her trust. Paper applications mailed in with paper checks could have been completed by now, no?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:25 | 4290820 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

Sounds like she's going to have to decide how important her $700/mo drug habit really is.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:34 | 4290852 NIHILIST CIPHER

Agreed, painkillers and acid reducers are probably the bulk of the cost. A bottle of tylenol and a few bottles of high quality mineral water will do the same job............but how will big pharma react to the loss of income.  Can hft offset hugh profit losses in big pharma stocks? How many people who lost their coverage and have been unable to sign up will cut back at the drugstore because THEY will be footing the bill? This will begin to show up over the next two weeks.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 12:58 | 4290892 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

It's not a stretch to presume that when people actually have to pay for these things, they will take the actual cost into account - which is basically the mechanism (price signals) we have needed all along in order to control "health care" costs.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:19 | 4290930 NIHILIST CIPHER

ican        I don't use my health insurance , no claims in 15 years and I agree that price signals are needed but big pharma owns DC. How will this fubar clusterfuck impass help big pharma's bottom line?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 13:39 | 4290964 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Excellent points, "ican..." and "NIHILIST."  I have a couple siblings on a very costly regime of antacid medication.  Reflux, GERD, whatever focus-group name they've come up with.  They have employer-provided coverage and never see a bill (other than the large chunk out of each paycheck, which still covers less than half of their premium). 

I too have had recurring problems with stomach acid; particularly at night.  I don't like taking (pharmaceutical) drugs, and I pay the full costs of my $10,000 deductible health insurance policy.  So I tried a little observation of my condition.  I found that I get terrible heartburn from eating lots of sugar, drinking alcohol (more sugar), smoking cigarettes, and eating too much tomato too close to bedtime.  So I quit smoking, dramatically reduced my drinking to the point that I'm sober by the time I go to bed, slightly reduced the fat, carbs and acidity in my diet, and I don't eat dessert after dinnertime.  Plus I got a good water filter and drink gallons of the stuff.  Works great.  I never get heartburn or excess stomach acid unless I deviate from the regime, and I know when I'm going to do that and do it on purpose when it pleases me, so I have a box of baking soda available to mix in a couple teaspoons with a glass of water for such occasions.

I also notice that eating better and prudently, and exercising moderately and prudently, Ifeel a hell of a lot better than I did even when I didn't immediately have heartburn from all that sugar intake.

Not sure what I'd do about chronic pain.  I did break my back as a teen and I've found that frequent stretching exercises are very beneficial.  Arthritis runs in my family, so I may have to examine various dietary, ergonomic and exercise/activity approaches to stave that off.  All free, or very nearly so.

My point is that employer-paid pre-paid health payment plans (it isn't "insurance" like auto, life or home) have utterly distorted the market.  People don't know what either the care or the insurance costs, and they don't stop to think if it even works as well as other things they could easily do themselves for free or almost free.  Most of what ails people they can fix themselves, and feel vastly better into the bargain.  It isn't just about fixing the immediate symptom; there's a huge opportunity cost in feeling worse than you might all the time.  Taking the simple steps to address the symptom pays off in so many unanticipated ways, Congress and Big Pharma will go to great lengths to keep people from figuring this out.  Hence the current approach of using taxpayer dollars to subsidize people's private health insurance, keeping them on the sick-care money-go-round by buying the ride tickets they can no longer afford themselves.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:05 | 4291026 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Processed sugar is deadly. Some studies have shown it to be more addictive than cocaine. The big problem I have with stomach acid reducers is that they also have been shown to have increased the likelihood of infections with Clostridium difficile. Guess what, you are supposed to have stomach acid. Without it you cannot properly digest and will become nutritionally deficient in many nutrients. Being deficient leaves you open to disease, cancer and depression ( another income stream for big Pharm).

Stomach acid is not a problem in itself, just too much acid. You have identified your problem which will lead you to health. My husband had problems too and we found gluten was his issue. Now that it has been eliminated, we no longer buy a gigantic box of Tums which he popped like M&Ms. So many of our ills can be fixed by good nutrition and exercise but that's just too difficult for our lazy, just give me a pill population today.


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:31 | 4291090 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Indeed Miffed, I had to quit wheat b/c it was causing joint pain, head aches and acid reflux. PEOPlE, get rid of the wheat and lose weight, feel WAY better and get rid of the mind fog. Wheat is poison.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:17 | 4291301 donsluck
donsluck's picture

Ha ha ha, because you are allergic doesn't mean it's poison. It's just you.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:25 | 4291326 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Could be.  But s/he still shouldn't eat it in that case.  Which is not the easiest thing to do in our food environment.  It's even hard to eliminate it temporarily, for troubleshooting purposes.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:20 | 4291582 mophead
mophead's picture

Acid reflux is caused by bad dieting. Some forms of bad dieting: a) eating anything that you don't crave, b) eating too much or too little, c) eating at random times, d) eating when you're in a rush.

If you really crave a cheese burger and it's fresh and tastes good and is proportional and you're not in a rush and don't eat it 15 minutes before going to bed then that is good dieting and you will not get heart burn.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:48 | 4291637 new game
new game's picture

my wife got involved with essential oils -doTerra, have not used any pharma drugs for over 2 years.

peppermint oil on temple for headache(for example). goes on and on. good stuff used by smart people for 1000's of years...

oils from plants :)

take control of your life and reject the norms implied by the very people that are fucking you over!

question authority and EVERYONE else that makes over 100k / year

quakes everywhere gaming the system for easy money-fascism...

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 23:39 | 4292416 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

People like you squeal the most when you get bone metasteses.


Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:12 | 4291564 G.O.O.D
G.O.O.D's picture

Google it: Wheat the perfect poison

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:49 | 4291124 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

Acid reflux - unpasteurized apple cider vinegar (diluted).

Arthriitis - virgin coconut oil and unsulphered black strap molasses.

Chronic back pain - exercise, and on bad days, horse linament.  You might smell like a nursing home, but it works.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:26 | 4291322 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

Thanks!  I knew about the vinegar and exercise.  I did not know about the coconut oil and black strap molasses.  And horse linament doesn't smell as bad as either that nursing home smell of feces/antiseptic or, say, patchouli oil. 

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 19:27 | 4291685 kareninca
kareninca's picture

Curcumin is very good for arthritis pain: Look at some of the curcumin reviews on Amazon; you will be impressed.

Accupuncture is extremely effective, too, and you can DIY.  Hitting precise meridians is not so important for pain relief treatments; if you just get close to the pain area it counts as "sham accupuncture," which still produces endorphins and fills up pain receptors.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:01 | 4291845 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture



curcumin is amazing.  check out pubmed and curcumin for everything from brain, breast, stomach, pancreatic, lung, prostate cancer to cystic fibrosis, diabeties, alzheimers, arthritis,  it won't get big attention until the pharma world has changed its name and patented it.  until then take it as a preventive measure to counter fukus and all the other poisons coming at us. 

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:14 | 4291967 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Curcumin (Tumeric) is great, but if you get a suppliment, or make your own, you need to add black pepper to make it easier to access. Curcumin and capsaicin do wonders for the heart and blood pressure, but since no one makes money off them...... 

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 14:58 | 4291138 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

This dude conclusively proved ulcers are caused by a bacteria. Ever heard of him? No? Hmmmm could it be because there are HUGE PROFITS to be made in treating the symptoms and not in the cure? 


 previously named Campylobacter pylori, is a Gram-negativemicroaerophilic bacterium found in the stomach. It was identified in 1982 by Australian scientists Barry Marshall and Robin Warren, who found that it was present in patients with chronic gastritis and gastric ulcers, conditions that were not previously believed to have a microbial cause. It is also linked to the development of duodenal ulcers and stomach cancer. However, over 80 percent of individuals infected with the bacterium are asymptomatic and it has been postulated that it may play an important role in the natural stomach ecology.[1]


After failed attempts to infect piglets in 1984, Marshall, after having a baseline endoscopy done, drank a Petri dish containing cultured H. pylori, expecting to develop, perhaps years later, an ulcer. He was surprised when, only three days later, he developed vague nausea and halitosis, (due to the achlorhydria, there was no acid to kill bacteria in the stomach, and their waste products manifested as bad breath), noticed only by his mother. On days 5–8, he developed achlorydric (no acid) vomiting. On day eight, he had a repeat endoscopy and biopsy, which showed massive inflammation (gastritis), and H. pylori was cultured. On the fourteenth day after ingestion, a third endoscopy was done, and Marshall began to take antibiotics.


Via Wiki

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 16:23 | 4291317 swmnguy
swmnguy's picture

So...does lots of sugar intake get these microbes all wound up?

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 18:34 | 4291608 mophead
mophead's picture

This bacteria is absolutely harmless (as further studies show which you've pointed out) and does not cause ulcers or cancer. Now, if you ingest a large amount of it, then yes, it will make you sick, like anything else consumed in large, unnatural quantities. People become sick when their minds become sick, scientifically proven since 1981.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 20:55 | 4291833 emersonreturn
emersonreturn's picture



you are right, also honey will cure H. pylori.  the 1st research into this was done by dairy farmers in NZ who noticed their cows had ulcers on their teats which could be cured by honey.  apparently the honey has a natural peroxide which kills the bacteria and also seals the sore to heighten healing.  H. pylori is contagious and if one family member has it it's good to have all members tested.  it's great we know the connection now, but for years ulcer suffers were simply given antiacids and told to buck up and as a result may developed stomach cancers unnecessarily.  thank you for your post.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 22:42 | 4292303 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

Oh, yeah.  Raw honey, that too.  I have that as part of my daily regimen as well.  Keeps allergies on the down-low, colds, etc., and it helps the ACV go down if you can't stomach the taste.

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 21:49 | 4292173 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Dear rafter man,

Unfortunately Helicobacter pylori has not been definitively shown to cause ulcers. Many people have it and don't have ulcers therefore Koch's Postulates haven't been met. This doesn't mean there isn't some relationship but there is likely another factor involved that causes H. pylori to do damage. Perhaps something in a person's diet? Really, there is nothing conclusive here. Sorry.

Miffed ;-)

Wed, 01/01/2014 - 23:02 | 4292352 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

? Hmmmm read that story years ago. Research has moved on. Nonetheless, I really don't think drugs should the the first and default solution.

Thu, 01/02/2014 - 00:06 | 4292464 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Agreed. Drugs have their place but only after other options had been considered. I was a die hard, wipe H. Pylori off planet earth advocate for quite a while until recent research got me to reconsider. Should have known better. Whenever I get over fixated on anything I usually get kicked in the ass.


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