This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Bitcoin For Brownstones: You Can Now Use Digital Currency To Buy New York Real Estate

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Having doubled off the post-PBOC-ban-and-Fed-Taper lows, Bitcoin, trading at USD910 currently is becoming increasingly ubiquitous as a payment method for many businesses. The latest, as NY Post reports, is Manhattan-based real-estate broker Bond New York, is "using Bitcoins to help facilitate transactions." With overseas money-laundering as a key support, and Manhattan apartment sales setting a record in Q4 for volume of transactions (+27% YoY), we suspect the acceptance of Bitcoin will merely ease the Chinese (or Russian) ability to transfer funds directly into NYC housing - blowing an even bigger bubble.

 

 

 

Via NY Post,

The bitcoin has gained a foothold in one of the hottest business sectors in the country: Manhattan real estate.

 

Bond New York, a Manhattan-based real estate broker, has started accepting the digital currency for real estate transactions, The Post has learned.

 

Bond New York believes it is the first real estate brokerage firm to accept bitcoin.

 

“Real estate brokerage is a service industry,” said Noah Freedman, a co-founder of Bond New York. “Our job is to make real estate transactions easy for our customers. Bitcoins are just another mechanism to help people facilitate transactions.”

 

Several larger real estate brokers are not sold on the idea and have no plans to set up bitcoin accounts any time soon.

 

“We don’t accept them, and we have no plans to accept them,” Pam Liebman, CEO of the Corcoran Group, said Friday. “We prefer the American dollar.”

 

“Bitcoins could be here today and gone tomorrow,”

But it is that perspective that could indeed be lost on the burgeoning foreign interest in moving money overseas (into US real estate)... (as we noted in September)

In August 2012, when isolating one of the various reasons for the latest housing bubble, we suggested that a primary catalyst for the price surge in the ultra-luxury housing segment and the seemingly endless supply of "all cash" buyers (standing at an unprecedented 60% of all buyers lately as reported by Goldman) is a very simple one: crime. Or rather, the use of US real estate as a means to launder illegal offshore-procured money. We also identified the one key permissive feature which allowed this: the National Association of Realtors' exemption from Anti-Money Laundering provisions. In other words, all a foreign oligarch - who may or may not have used chemical weapons in their past: all depends on how recently they took their picture with the Secretary of State - had to do to buy a $47 million Florida house, was to get the actual cash to the US. Well good thing there are private jets whose cargo is never checked.

But now, with the acceptance of Bitcoin, we would imagine the "funds" transfer process is even easier... blowing what is already a bubble... (via Bloomberg)

Manhattan apartment sales surged in 4Q, setting a record for yr-end transactions, as prospect of rising interest rates and prices pushed buyers to make deals before purchases became costlier.

 

Sales of condos and co-ops jumped 27% from yr earlier to 3,297, highest 4Q total in 25 yrs of record-keeping, according to report from Miller Samuel Inc. and Douglas Elliman Real Estate

 

There’s a concern that homeownership will be more expensive and therefore the time to act apparently is now,” said Jonathan Miller, president of Miller Samuel

 

...

 

Median price of Manhattan transactions that closed in 4Q climbed 2.1% to $855,000

Into an even bigger one...

 

 

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sat, 01/04/2014 - 15:58 | 4300113 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Imagine selling a brownstone for 2,000 Bitcoins. And after closing realizing you sold it for $4,000USD. 

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:03 | 4300117 CH1
CH1's picture

Sell your bullshit somewhere else.

More likely you find you're massively rich in a year or so.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:49 | 4300183 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Where is the most reliable place to buy bitcoin?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:03 | 4300204 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

Fonestar = Xenofrog  

Both accounts for bashing BTC, each with their own style.  

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:30 | 4300246 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I am definitely not Xenofrog so stop with the conspiratorial BS.  How have I ever bashed Bitcoin?  I have been saying Bitcoin is going to five, six and seven figures since $50 BTC and I am still saying that.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:47 | 4300498 Scarlett
Scarlett's picture

As a proponent of Bitcoin, your account does way more harm than good.  You're unable to explain BTC in a rational manner, and you infest all posts, just like xenofrog.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:00 | 4300540 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Hardly.  Bitcoin wins whether people on ZH (or anywhere else) "get it" or not.  I'm just here saying we are going to win and damn the rest to hell.  And also, I noticed many of the people who were attempting to slander Bitcoin don't even bother with these threads anymore.  Doubtlessly, no small thanks to fonestar.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:15 | 4300577 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

.

fonestar wrote: "Doubtlessly, no small thanks to fonestar."

 

Without doubt fonestar, without doubt...  

:)

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:21 | 4300590 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Scarlett, speaking truth to power.

There is a big difference between those "fighting the man" & those just in it for a quick buck.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 02:11 | 4301205 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

Who owns the most bit coins. US government.

How much 10% outstanding.

How do u destroy bitcoin? Buy them all up or confiscate them..

Well u all should dwell on that. Lolololololol

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 05:31 | 4301321 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Gov't has confiscated about 150k coins.  About 1.25% of the 12million BTC in existence.  They have indicated they will auction off the coins after trials are complete following normal procedures for seized goods.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 13:32 | 4301851 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

weren't you suppose to scare everyone shitless a week or so ago nmewn???  remember how you said you are legion with your buds?

yeah, just keep blowing nonsense out your asspipe..  zeroaction

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:19 | 4300227 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

IR...on a similar subject, how do you convert phyzz into bitcoins?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:08 | 4300556 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

 

 

Please allow me...

First, never sell your gold!

But, if you have to, sell it at your LCS (Local Coin Shop) for $, then buy BTC for cash from someone you know (or see further below for my own response to Iridium Rebel).

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:38 | 4300628 DosZap
DosZap's picture

DoChen,

Agreed,

Please allow me...

First, never sell your gold!

 

To do so is committing self impoverishment WHEN the mkt tanks, and it will in 2014, HUGE.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:31 | 4300244 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

localbitcoins.com

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:35 | 4300250 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Coinbase. Works as promised.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:39 | 4300469 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Coinbase or Kraken.  Mt Gox and Bitstamp are a pain in the balls to add/remove usd.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:33 | 4300500 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Plus they want your ID, proof of address, bank account and a blood sample.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:37 | 4300356 eXMachina
eXMachina's picture

I use Mt.Gox never had a problem.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:49 | 4300503 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Have you gotten any usd out?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:25 | 4300587 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I have not used Mt. Gox.  The problem I see with them is that they are being put under rules that are like those for banks and Western Union: "know your customer", etc.

Spend BTC at https://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com/

Sell BTC locally!

"There's always someone around who will take your Bitcoin."  ™DCRB

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:33 | 4300546 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

IridiumRebel

I would try registering for free at https://localbitcoins.com/.

You can then meet someone near you (I bought $300 worth of BTC at a Starbucks from a guy I "met" at localbitcoins).

Or you can take your chances by buying from someone by sending cash via US Mail, I did that twice...

 

EDIT:

Bring your laptop with a BTC wallet already set up.  Then be prepared to wait WITH yoru BTC seller for 30 minutes or so for the transaction to go through.  Buy him coffee!

More:

http://tinyurl.com/nu8v6zx

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 15:59 | 4300118 fonestar
fonestar's picture

The property is actually going to lose value in terms of BTC over the long haul.  Why is it so amazing to TD/ZH every time they find out you can buy anything you want with a..... currency?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:05 | 4300122 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

This is about theft you fucking idiot....

Money fucking laundering using US property as the proxy.

You believe in your shit so much then be the first motherfucker to die for it and shut the fuck up.

Find another portal fucktard.....................................

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:07 | 4300126 CH1
CH1's picture

You believe in your shit so much then be the first motherfucker to die...

LOL... a statist tool, pretending to be a tough guy!

Try stepping out of your obedient little mold and doing something unapproved. See if you have the guts.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:13 | 4300298 margaris
margaris's picture

@stoploss

I respect government like I would respect a clever enemy. They are so good at what they do.

Sure I hate them and want them to disappear forever, but let's look at what they have achieved:

They have managed to brainwash the sheeple so effectively, that the sheeple themselves don't see taxes as theft anymore, rather they call the one who doesn't pay taxes a thief.

It's completely ridiculous.

The same with this bizzare concept of "money laundering":

First governments overrides all our freedoms/rights and declares some plants/services and their voluntary trading/offering illegal, but then they go ahead and call it "money laundering" if you nonetheless use their fiat money to participate in those "illicit" things. Even if you use new kinds of currencies (like bitcoin) that are outside of their control, they still call it money laundering... it's mind boggling.

So all this money get's dirty when it comes in touch with those illegal activities the government declares so. But in reality money is just a concept (concepts can't get dirty, what does that even mean??) and the illegality is completely arbitrary. The only real thing are the victims of government actions. (biggest victim: taxpayers)

 

How is someone who doesn't want to be a victim a thief instead? Please explain

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 05:08 | 4301311 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

credit where credit is due.
Government actually became MUCH LESS clever at covering their deceptions.
Children simply grew up poorly educated & of poor genetic stock. Their parents & parents before them failed them.
That's why we have today's sheeple: they are dumb as fuck.
Those who came from good genetic stock, had good diets growing up & a good education didn't fall for the tricks.
They are the minority & some of them are the tricksters.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:44 | 4300178 Unpopular Truth
Unpopular Truth's picture

Stoploss:

Yes, real estate can be used to launder cash.

Whom do you hate here?

NAR for making it legal?

Phonestar for some reason?

If you also hate bitcoin, read here: http://www.bitcoinhatersguide.com/ - specifically, in all BTC transactions it is recommended to cash out, because it is volatile.

 

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:10 | 4300216 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"This is about theft you fucking idiot...."

Bitcoin and not property is the perfect vehicle for laundering money (doing what you want with your money) dipshit.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:23 | 4300233 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

fman, how do i convert phyzz into bitcoins?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:31 | 4300243 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I know there's some sites out there that do that but buyer beware, one apparently did vanish from the face of the web.  I'd feel more comfortable meeting face to face.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:41 | 4300268 malikai
malikai's picture

Probably best to take your phys to a shop, shift for fiat and then shift the fiat on localbitcoins.

There's so few people going that way right now it'll be hard to find a market in it directly.

Personally, I'd be going cash -> bitcoin. Then later bitcoin -> gold. I wouldn't be selling phys right now. Calls maybe, but certainly not phys.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:30 | 4300159 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Please use any wallet at your own risk, and consult with the wallet provider for terms and conditions.

You'll find this disclosure on any bitcoin site. So bitcoin in my eyes is setup for a massive fraud in the short future where not bitcoins will all be hacked and stolen but all the wallets.

How many morons keep wallets on websites they know nothing about?

So kid in a basement can create a wallet site and wait a year before he steals them all. And what can you prove once he stolen them?
Nothing.

good luck even trying to explain to a cop what a bitcoin is when you file suite...

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:46 | 4300177 One And Only
One And Only's picture
Target: 40 million credit cards compromised

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/18/news/companies/target-credit-card/

Had target accepted bitcoin 40 million people would have been protected.

€1.6m gold 'stolen' on Air France flight

http://www.france24.com/en/20130924-gold-brinks-millions-air-france-flight/

Gold can be stolen too, so using your logic gold has been hacked and is only for those who want to get ripped off.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:39 | 4300476 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

You know, I think wallet is a misnomer.  Its more of a wallet password.  What I mean is, someone can copy your wallet (or a backup of your wallet) and empty it out.  It doesn't make sense to think of it in terms of a traditional wallet where if you see it then it isn't lost.  On the other hand, we all understand what can happen if you publish your password.  

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 21:41 | 4300758 pbppbp
pbppbp's picture

Take your btc offline.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 02:27 | 4301219 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Thanks for the what. Now please provide the how.

Thanks.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:56 | 4301304 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

what currency?
BTC isn't a currency.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:04 | 4300119 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Well, China and pretty much all the momos and speculators were driven out earlier and it only fell what?  60%?  I don't think it's going to be hitting $2 any time soon.  It is too entrenched now, with too many people waiting to get in at bargain prices.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:46 | 4300275 malikai
malikai's picture

As an evil speculator running LL HFT (at internet speeds), I can certify that some of us got way stronger.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:23 | 4300334 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

BitCoin is dead.  Long live BitCoin!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:40 | 4300480 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

It will only die when a better alt currency takes hold.  It won't die because of Statists (although they can make it harder to use).

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:40 | 4300170 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Let's put this in focus. This is a Realtor we are talking about who

a) has zero allignment of interests with the buyer.

b) could care less about the price of Bitcoin.

As much as I hate NYC Realtors, this guy will mint more money than ever before. Especially if he is daring enough to represent buyers in Miami, SF, etc...

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:27 | 4300337 akak
akak's picture

 

b) couldn't care less about bitcoin

 

As you wrote it, you were saying the exact opposite of what you obviously were intending to say.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:45 | 4300487 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

It's funny, most people say "could care less" even though this is not what they mean.  I think people don't want to bother with the extra syllable and could care less what others think of their grammer.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:58 | 4300533 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

WTF? Is this Grammer class Saturday Night Live?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:13 | 4300837 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

Actually, Einstein1 and Einstein 2, it's GRAMMAR

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:49 | 4300929 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

OK. I officially have egg on my face.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:42 | 4300912 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Akak:
Thank you!
Larry

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:31 | 4300616 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No way in HELL you can convince me that the Fed & the Gv't are not in this up to their eyeballs.NO way they are not going to make a profit off of this without slamming the door shut completey.

It is IMHO a rigged game, and designed to take folks away from PM's.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:52 | 4300925 akak
akak's picture

I will begin to believe that Bitcoin is NOT a government/NSA/NWO scam and/or plot when, and only when, the Powers That Be start to attack it as belligerently and thoroughly as they went after Bernared Von Nothaus and his Liberty Dollars.

The fact that they have not ALREADY done so may be very telling in and of itself.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 23:14 | 4300970 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Sit out and react to actions the Powers That Be may or may not take.  #Winning

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 23:37 | 4300996 akak
akak's picture

Or blindly jump in to Tulipmania 2.0, right?

"Act in haste, repent in leisure".

Sorry, trendsucking was never my thing.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 23:39 | 4301005 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Due diligence. I've watched Bitcoin for a few years and finally took the time to study it in depth mid-2013.  Now I write software code around bitcoin services including cryptograghically signing transactions and dealing with extended private keys.  If Bitcoin is easily breakable, it would have been done already (by hackers, who are very resourceful).  It may be breakable -- there is still a lot of risk in BTC -- but not easily.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 23:42 | 4301013 akak
akak's picture

Please understand that I do not "hate Bitcoin", I am merely a natural skeptic, in ALL things, and I find a great deal about this novel and unproven experiment with which to be skeptical.  The fact that it is far from easily understood by the average person (if in fact by anyone) only adds to my wariness.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 03:11 | 4301061 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Aye, bitcoin relies on a slew of technologies that matured and came together at the right time.  And to work as advertised, it needs all of those technologies: peer-to-peer networking, Proof-of-work (mining) and strong cryptology. Of course, if governments were managing their currencies in a sane fashion there would be little demand for Bitcoin.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:38 | 4301292 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

the blockchain is NOT a matured technology.
Digital signatures are but the blockchain makes poor, poor use of cryptography.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:48 | 4301298 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

*grabs popcorn* This gonna be good...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:59 | 4303826 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Yup. btc to 140 is just around the corner.

Hope you like crow-seasoning on your popcorn.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:36 | 4301288 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You're looking in the wrong place.
The fiat exchanges are what broke bitcoin.
To operate without failure there can't be any.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:47 | 4301300 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

According to you, Oh Bogus One, why can physical Gold be acquired with fiat but Bitcoin should be excluded?  And don't tell me what I can and can't do with my own personal property.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:18 | 4303828 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

No, according to me goods should be priced in weights of gold, silver & copper as fits the situation.

People could have traded bitcoin for goods only, or goods & services, but chose to enter a fiat ponzi instead.

That's a poor choice & sealed a fate of doom for bitcoin.

"And don't tell me what I can and can't do with my own personal property."

What, you own an exchange? An exchange is physical hardware, connected to bank accounts & bitcoin wallets. Bank accounts, digital wallets, bitcoin, are not property - they aren't even physical things at all. You certainly don't own them, you merely own losses attached to them until you have actual tangible goods in hand or services rendered.

I wasn't referring to your property - you clearly stated you don't have any.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 13:40 | 4301864 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the only thing telling is you're a dumbass!!!

if bitcoin fails, the goverment crushes all that oppose

if bitcoin wins, it is a government plot

 

!!!!!!what a fucking moronic idiot!!!!!!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 15:56 | 4300114 BabyShoes
BabyShoes's picture

So the feds can't print money and buy Bitcoin?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:12 | 4300137 CH1
CH1's picture

So the feds can't print money and buy Bitcoin?

Sure they could. That would drive the exchange price WAY up.

And the next day, they could crash the price.

And on the third day, the monsters would get all their obedient journalists to scream, "Bitcoin is unstable!"

And on the fourth day, all the smart guys would buy more.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:34 | 4300347 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Smart money will continue riding the wave. they might get some suckers to exit low but remember every coin sold is a coin bought.

I am moving to alt-coins and I'm well hedged for a Zerocoin.

Play the breakouts my friend.

CryptoCurrency out of the box. Let them pump, its more money for me

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:44 | 4300496 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

Zerocoin will be the biggest enemy of bitcoin.  I plan to go all in zerocoin when it comes out.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:31 | 4300612 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Will zerocoin use the blockchain as well?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:38 | 4300629 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

http://zerocoin.org

How Zerocoin works

Zerocoin operates like a distributed laundry where the laundry is implemented within the Bitcoin network itself.

Zerocoin achieves this by creating a separate anonymous currency that operates side-by-side with traditional Bitcoin on the block chain. Zerocoins can be thought of literally as coins. They’re issued in a fixed denomination (for example, 1 BTC), and any user can purchase a zerocoin in exchange for the correct quantity of bitcoin. This purchase is done by placing a special new “Zerocoin Mint” transaction into the block chain.

Once a Mint transaction has been accepted by the Bitcoin peers, the same user can redeem her zerocoin back into bitcoins. She simply embeds a (preferably new) destination Bitcoin address into a “Zerocoin Spend” transaction, then sends it into the network. If the transaction checks out, the Bitcoin peers will treat it just like a normal Bitcoin transfer – meaning that she’ll receive the full bitcoin value of the coin (minus transaction fees) at the destination address.

The key to this process is to ensure that the bitcoins received at the end of this process are completely unlinked to the bitcoins that were used in the beginning. This is accomplished using a variety of cryptographic components, including digital commitments and zero-knowledge proofs. The end result is that it is mathematically infeasible to link the particular bitcoins used at the beginning and end of this process, other than through educated guesswork.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:47 | 4300651 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Thanks!  But, wouldn't that expose zerocoin to the blockchain risks that I have see some here write about?

My next article ("Fun with Bitcoin for Beginners: Part Six") will be about the blockchain.

I need people who know the blockchain to send me info...

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 21:46 | 4300766 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

NSA's fingers all over the block chain algos at the base of BTC.

 

Just saying.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 23:58 | 4301048 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

CC-

The US government owns the internet.  Lliterally, not figuratively.  They own it, the operate it, they police it, they control it, they manage it.

 

 

jb

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:21 | 4301281 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

actually, no.
Vast parts of the internet, from cables to routers, and especially servers are operated beyond the control or ownership of the USA.
That's why there's such a vast military trying to go the other way.
However, it's impossible without EMP's & war and EMP's don't ruin fibre cable (glass).
The physical part of the internet is the computers, routers (dedicated computers with cable ports & multiplexors, some firewall stuff, etc.), and the rest is just software implemented to fit the desired layer of the network protocol (tcp, udp, IP itself, drivers, applications using various ports and packets, etc.).
The US doesn't own "most of" the Internet by design (as is currently) or atoms (devices).
They are trying but aren't there.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:16 | 4301279 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

a cryptocurrency doesn't even NEED a blockchain.

In addition to having localized web of trust for transactions you can also have a rejection-type of web as well. If any of the rejection signatures came through on a transaction from any parties you do trust, using gpg/pgp and not bitcoin, you could reject a transaction completely. You could even reject them in advance like a blacklist, like adblock, once addresses are identified to belong to .gov's, scammers, Nigerian princes, etc.

Bit bitcoin can't do that. Because bitcoin is a farce.

GPG and before it PGP could do far, far more than bitcoin could.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 06:22 | 4301332 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

You and your web-of-trust buddies can transfer digital bottlecaps all you want.  Bitcoin is a trust-less decentralized system.  Have you actually ever even read the Whitepaper [PDF]??  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:06 | 4303834 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

bitcoin is a valueless system - because there is no trust system - and that's a huge problem.
You can cut down on loads of storage space, computation time & increase actual value by having actual digital signatures backing the goods. There are no goods to back with btc so combined with its huge negative cost in wasted precious metals for ASICs that go straight to the dump when they aren't fast enough, you will likely see btc hit zero within a year. No matter the measure. It's just a waste of processing time & fails to accomplish the key goal: a unit of currency MUST have value, it can't be just electrons because those have no value except to drive wattage into devices that need it. That's not a bit pattern, that's how many joules you can shove into a coulomb & how many watt-hours you can keep going in all needed situations - battery, fuel cell, generators, turbines - whatever.

Bitcoin doesn't even begin to approach this. It has no value.

A trustless system is always a failed system.

A trust-built de-centralized web-system is the only possible system of digital value because it has a connection to the non-digital world.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:46 | 4300489 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

"And on the fourth day, all the smart guys would buy more."

Bingo.  Learn, adapt to your enemy.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:23 | 4300862 mumbo_jumbo
mumbo_jumbo's picture

so you're saying bitcoins isn't money?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 15:58 | 4300115 Al Capowned
Al Capowned's picture

Bitcoin is going to be unstoppable this year,

So far zynga starting to accept, netflix rumoured,
James Turk & goldmoney.com offering bitcoin storage

Overstock.com planning to accept, bitpay signing up 1000's of merchants

You can't stop an idea as good as Bitcoin

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 15:58 | 4300116 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Lawk in that Nu Yawk condo wit da Bitcoin ya fawkin moolies! It's a great fawkin time ta buy!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:01 | 4300120 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Alright! Fuck. I'll buy a few of these. Where? One of you pumpers direct me into a good place. No sheep market place shit ok?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:16 | 4300128 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Throwing in the towel already?

I don't think I will participate, but my amigo who has an interest in computey things (I'm the hardware/software engineer lololo) wants to buy 1 BTC when he gets some stability and money. I'll watch vicariously through him and all the BTC lovers here.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:19 | 4300144 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Everyday with the bitcoin! BITCOIN BITCOIN BITCOIN.
I got a little everything else like PMs, Stawks, bonds, cash and real estate. I can roll the dice on a few NSACoins.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:25 | 4300147 akak
akak's picture

Just an aside, IR, but why do so many here like to write "stawks" for "stocks"?  If it is supposed to be some kind of joke or pun, I don't see the connection, as the two words are not even pronounced the same (assuming of course that "stawk" is pronounced like the word "stalk").

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:23 | 4300151 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

The derivation of the ZeroHedge term "stawk" finds its lineage into a combination of the words "stock" and "squawk" as used in CNBCs hit shit show "Squawk on the Street". ZeroHedge users began to bandy this term about in 2011 when Fed pumping truly took off.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:25 | 4300153 akak
akak's picture

Well, that clears that up!

Thanks IR.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:31 | 4300163 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Anytime, buddy.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:24 | 4300326 BellyBrain
BellyBrain's picture

Easiest way to buy some BTC is through coinbase.  It is a slow process the first time, kind of like setting up a paypal account.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:45 | 4300501 hmmtellmemore
hmmtellmemore's picture

It can take a week if it draws from your bank account.  Really annoying, but still a great site in comparison to others today.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:05 | 4300555 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

IR-go to BLOCKCHAIN.info and get yourself a wallet. That is the fastest way to begin owing a wallet. You will receive a public address and a private key. You can post your public address here and I'll send you a few stosachis. That is, it's a fraction of a whole Bitcoin. Be sure to keep your private key private and secured!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:15 | 4300847 PN7
PN7's picture

Hi.  I took your advice...(thank you) and I now have a wallet.  I don't seem to have a private key though.  How do I get a private key?  p.s. I'm not the same person you gave the advice to, but I would appreciate a reply.  Is my password possibly my private key?

Thanks again

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:29 | 4300884 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Private keys are managed behind the scenes by your software client.  They will be on disk in your wallet file. It is a good idea to use a password which will encrypt the private keys in the wallet file.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:53 | 4300938 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Blockchain usually emails you your private key with the email address you gave them.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 01:56 | 4301193 PN7
PN7's picture

Much appreciated.  One of these days it will seem as simple as riding a bike.  I guess a little trial and error is all part of the game.  

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:55 | 4300940 digi
digi's picture

I prefer to use Multibit as my wallet software as it gives you easy access to the actual privatekey. It is recommended that you have a good idea of what you are doing when working directly with private keys. Needless to say it is not something you want to be doing on a Windows NSA edition box.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:52 | 4300191 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

How did you answer akak before he asked the question?

 

 "you are now entering the Twilight zone... "

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:09 | 4300202 akak
akak's picture

You are evidently forgetting, IrritableBowels, that I have at my disposal AnAnonymous' magical lightning-powered time-traveling flying rickshaw of US 'american' citizen Benjamin Franklin inventionizing, via which I was able to transport my US 'american' self back in time to anticipate IR's response even before I asked the question.  In a very mattering, blobbing-up kind of way, of course.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:48 | 4300278 NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

IB    Not the first time this has happened. Things that make you go Hmmmmmm.                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Also, notice that these folks one at a time are hopping on the bandwagon for BTC.    Hmmmmmmm

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:31 | 4300344 malikai
malikai's picture

Sounds like a drifting clock on one of the frontend servers.

Not entirely abnormal.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:21 | 4300597 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

John O'Conner lives!

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:11 | 4301277 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

reports your local time zone clock without reporting what that time zone is. Noticed it many times.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:43 | 4300260 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Be careful with your first couple plays. Read the technical but watch out, pennants have a nasty habit of breaking out the wrong side.

I would not recommend getting into any altcoin until you've read their main website and looked at their forums.

Also be careful of arb-trading lots of times people get greedy and get pushed out of the money by a selloff on only one completed leg.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:01 | 4300167 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

I threw $100 at it back in early December (0.1 BTC), thought why not I can afford to lose it. You might remember the post....I put it into Quark, let Bill Still and Max pump it a bit then dumped it for .4 BTC before Christmas because Quark is an instamine scamcoin like most crypto currencies.

"It's like going to the horse races...."

So now I am playing the market with .4 BTC I don't expect I will ever be able to pull that out safely due to all the BS and shinannigans with the exchanges and coinabul (yes be warned coinabul has gone rogue and is no longer shipping but still accepting BTC). BUT there is an army surplus store that takes bitcoin in my area so if I ever get to 1 or 2 bitcoins I will head on over and get some items for my prep maybe some ammo and another rifle to boot...who knows. If I can get $2-3 grand worth of prep gear for $100 then sure why not!

Still many many pros and cons to figure out with crypto-currency and a lot of scammers looking to make a quick buck through shady exchanges and crappy scam coins....might as well tinker with it and get to know it better so I can be better educated when it fails or shines. I guess it's just an educational experience more then anything so I can be better positioned to take advantage of it and perhaps increase my stack of shine in the process.

There is one coin that I found over the last month that is quietly being mined away that isn't on coinmarketcap and isn't well known and the people mining it don't care for a good reason. It is bitcoin 2.0, it has 6 different security algorithms, is asic resistant (CPU mined) and has transactions times of less then 60 seconds beyond that the number of rewards are the same as well as it's scarcity. It was also launched fairly with no premine or instamine in 2013.

I'm not going to name it but if you can find it it's worth looking at and setting a few spare computers to mine for the next 6 months. I do think that the NSA or some nefarious agency originally created crypto-currency but like most things (like the internet) it got away from them. The code is open source and it is evolving without their control....

Just my 2 cents and recent experiences....programmers can make 1000's of alt coins diluting the market but gold and silver are the only true forms of money.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:38 | 4300258 KingFiat
KingFiat's picture

programmers can make 1000's of alt coins diluting the market but gold and silver are the only true forms of money.

Programmers can make 1000's of alt coins, but it will not dilute the market value of bitcoin - unless perceived by the market as better. If percieved as significantly better a single alt coin could make the value of bitcoin drop like a stone.

What is money? A store of value and an enabler of transactions. Bitcoin is unproven and risky as a store of value, unlike gold. Gold is not good for long-distance and/or small transactions, unlike bitcoin. Bitcoin is excellent for international payments and avoiding currency restrictions.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:11 | 4300562 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

I agree with your second paragraph but disagree with your first.

I can make 10 exact copies of bitcoin, rename them and release them into the market for people to mine...what do you think that does to the original bitcoins value?

What if I decide to improve on Bitcoins transaction times, perhaps update the hashing algorithm to make it more secure and make a better coin that only takes 30 seconds to confirm a transaction instread of 15 minutes?

Bitcoin is the beta of crytpo-currency....has many flaws and there are many competitors all fighting for market cap.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 01:29 | 4301166 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

This has already been done.  The trick is getting Miner's to take their machines away from their pursuit of acquiring Bitcoins and get them working on your currency.  Also getting merchants and exchanges willing to deal with your currency as well.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:51 | 4300523 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Actually, alt-coins don't dilute anything. Unless you're a complete idiot and don't do any background research. Its easy to find out who is the hashing-power king of the jungle. The rest of them barely have enough hashing-security to fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

Another note, I keep seeing the "well, they could change the 21 million Bitcoin limit" over and over.

Riiiiight.

Remember Microsoft? How long did it take everyone to upgrade their OS to the newest revision? Fucking forever, that's how long. And when it comes to Bitcoin, EVERY USER that would have to upgrade to make any arbitrary change even possible. This is like having a REAL VOTE in how your monetary policy is being managed - instead of the zero-opt-in-print-to-the-sky method fiat has now.

Just keep that in mind.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:15 | 4300576 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

The only reason Bitcoin has that hashing power is because of it's difficulty level, the hashes required to find a block and the percieved value. As I said before bitcoin is crypto-currency beta....there are many flaws with it, 15 minute transaction times for one, 15gb ledger, SHA256 only is another..someone cracks that nut and it's all over.

If you are trying to tell me that hashing power somehow equates to percieved value you are sorely mistaken. It only protects the ledger....

 

 

 

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 23:13 | 4300966 digi
digi's picture

You can accept a low value transaction at 0 confirmations. And if it is a high value transaction you can wait the 10 minutes for confirmation and be waiting less time than most other methods, especially ones that work remotely. The 15gb can be reduced to less than 1gb once pruning is implemented, it just hasn't been done yet but it's in the works. Hash functions have historically been broken down gradually over time, it's not one catastrophic breaking point. Someone first finds a small weakness that doesn't allow an attack much abilities and over time more weaknesses are found. Despite this most cryptographers today seem to have a high regard towards the future of sha256. Basically if someone does find something wrong with sha256 it will be minor and the first sign that it is time to transition the protocol to a new hashing algorithm. Even if it was catastrophically broken all at once, it won't allow anyone to spend or "steal" your coins. It won't allow someone to create counterfeit coins.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:29 | 4300161 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

pretty simple, just give Mt Gox all your personal info and your off! 

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:37 | 4300165 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

So SSN, acct number and all of my passwords. Sounds good. What is the customer service number in case there is a glitch?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:47 | 4300176 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

and a scan of your address (with utility bill) and drivers license, just so the FBI knows where to come knockin when they label this tulip as a threat to the USD

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:21 | 4300320 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> ... just so the FBI knows where to come knockin ...

I lost all my BTC in a computing accident, er, crash. Heh, heh ... yuk, yuk.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:01 | 4300195 One And Only
One And Only's picture

There is a cornicopia of places to buy bitcoin. You just have to put a solid 5 minutes into looking.

If you'd like I'll sell you bitcoin through localbitcoins.com. They have escrow and you and I never have to know who eachother are. Don't have to use SSN's, GPS locator devices, blood of your first born, or whatever other crazy shit the sites you look at require. If you'd like we can get dirt nasty and go through a site I've used on TOR.

Let me know.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:15 | 4300221 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Just be forewarned that when I throw cash into this it will be halved in value by weeks end.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:28 | 4300239 Blano
Blano's picture

You must be my long lost twin.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 23:12 | 4300975 digi
digi's picture

When that happens, buy some more, and then hold for a year. You should come out okay.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 03:54 | 4301268 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

not this coming year: http://flic.kr/p/iFQMoV

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:57 | 4300197 The Thunder Child
The Thunder Child's picture

If you want to throw a couple dollars into it for the hell of it I would suggest Localbitcoins, you don't need to enter anything beyond your email address. It is an escrow servce for buyers and sellers and it will put you in touch with someone local to deal with instead of screwing around with all your personal information.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:45 | 4300269 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Fuck GOX. go with localbitcoins to get in, if you want to trade BTC/USD go with BTC-E.com

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:31 | 4300611 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Coinbase and Bitpay do that too, without the hassel of Gox. Coinbase has an average basing BtC buy/sell protocol that makes the market price more fair.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:05 | 4300124 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Another article about modern day tulip bulbs.

 

 

 

A Bitcoin Bozo Bonanza!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:17 | 4300145 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Even the shoeshine boy accepts Bitcoin.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:13 | 4300215 akak
akak's picture

Where the Hell do you ever see an actual 'shoeshine boy' anymore, outside of some old pre-1950s movies?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:22 | 4300330 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Who even wears shoes that need be shined, anymore?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:26 | 4300340 akak
akak's picture

I only wear shoes of any sort three or four days per year, myself.

The rest of the time it is strictly boots.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 18:57 | 4300389 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Where I live we have shoe shine boys. In an alleyway behind the Pirate Bank.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:50 | 4300505 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Airports.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:40 | 4300633 akak
akak's picture

No, those are just the TSA in disguise checking for Shoebombers.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 03:45 | 4301261 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

They'll shine somethin' else for ya.

You may have to cough, just part of the protocol.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 04:27 | 4301285 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Little boy blew?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:08 | 4300133 HUGE_Gamma
HUGE_Gamma's picture

marketing gimmick 

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:12 | 4300134 put_peter
put_peter's picture

The only value that bitcoin has is the money loundering ability. However as its nature it may end rather suddenly. Gentlemen place your bets!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:50 | 4300279 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

The money laundering market estimated at 3.6% of global GDP

Trillions with a T.

http://www.fatf-gafi.org/pages/faq/moneylaundering/

Once ZeroCoin is implemented there will be no way to hold back the tide

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:30 | 4300615 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

Let's hope some of that laundered money comes over to my neck of the woods. We need it!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 22:39 | 4300906 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Amen Brother Food

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:23 | 4300135 akak
akak's picture

I think the headline here is rather disingenuous, as this broker is not so much accepting bitcoin as payment as it is USING bitcoin to accept payment in US dollars.  Which makes bitcoin just another credit card or bank wire, essentially.

“Real estate brokerage is a service industry,” said Noah Freedman, a co-founder of Bond New York. “Our job is to make real estate transactions easy for our customers. Bitcoins are just another mechanism to help people facilitate transactions.”

The issue still boils down to this: is bitcoin effectively a currency, or just a means to make transactions which is still linked to national fiat currencies on both ends?  Most if not all of what I have read about it so far leads me to be believe the latter.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:28 | 4300156 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I've said it before, I'll say it again. By letting BTC exchange with existing exponentially growing national debt-fiats, you remove the independence of an alternate currency.

A true alternate currency begins with ones/tens/hundreds of original transactions that set the alternate currency value of real raw materials, resources, finished goods, etc. This currency can never interact with exponentially growing national debt-fiats, for if it does, it becomes simply a proxy for the exchange of exponentially growing national debt-fiats.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 17:01 | 4300188 One And Only
One And Only's picture

Of course there is an issue of scalability but bitcoin is BRAND NEW.

A year ago you could only buy drugs with bitcoin. Now look at it.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:56 | 4300534 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

Bitcoin exchanges are just the shunt across the 3rd-rail of fiat flow into Bitcoin. We've never seen an entire economy kick-start itself before, so saying that you need everything priced in Bitcoin FIRST, then it is all "good" is a bit backward.

The progression is:

1.) Convert bad money into Bitcoin

2.) Incentive to use the system expands, including 'edge' vendors

3.) Incentive expands to encompass supplier chains

4.) Both parties realize "why the hell are we dicking around with paper tokens anyway" and start building supply loops denominated in Bitcoin

5.) Government freaks out and lots of lulz ensue

That's the deal. It will go along those lines, and if a country is stupid enough to enact an outright ban - it will just accelerate the adoption process, and citizens will know their politicians have finally gone full retard.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 03:41 | 4301259 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

no, bitcoin is backward.
What you were told is the normal forward-manner in which a currency is established if NOT using force / slavery.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:39 | 4300173 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

3 functions: means of avoidance of barter, unit of account and store of value. it fulfils the first and (speculatively) the third, too

yet it does not function as unit of account, currently. don't see many offering goods and services priced in bitcoins

and that is the central function of any currency

so I agree with you, and I'd venture to say bitcoins are at the moment a kind of... virtual commodity

which is nothing to sneer at, actually

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 21:50 | 4300789 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Bitcoin can't do 'unit of account' until it reaches market saturation.  ...If everybody used bitcoin there would be (on average) 0.003 BTC/person and goods would be priced accordingly.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 03:35 | 4301256 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Well that will never happen.
Most of the need of currency is off-grid where no bitcoin can go.

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 16:44 | 4300179 Master_Blaster
Master_Blaster's picture

Bingo, none of these companies/mafia run organizations are holding onto the Bitcoin. They immediately convert them to petrodollars - it's a game of hot-potato bitches.....

Get in the ring!

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 19:36 | 4300466 zipit
zipit's picture

" a means to make transactions which is still linked to national fiat currencies on both ends" is kinda valuable.  So... what is your point?  

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 20:43 | 4300638 akak
akak's picture

My point is that we already have plenty of those transactional means (credit cards, debit cards, bank wires, etc.), and have had them for many decades if not centuries.  So what is essentially new here?

Sat, 01/04/2014 - 21:56 | 4300793 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Send any quantity of money worldwide securely for about $0.05. No bank account required.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!