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"Resilient" Bitcoin Surges Above $1000 As Zynga Confirms Adoption

Tyler Durden's picture




 

It seems the adoption of major US-based vendors of the digital currency is trumping the Chinese clamp-down on Bitcoin as first Overstock and now Zynga confirm their adoption of the crypto-currency. For the first time since the PBOC issued its statement, Bloomberg reports Zynga is partnering with BitPay to test Bitcoin payments. As ConvergEx's Nick Colas notes, "Bitcoin has been remarkably resilient in the face of all the bad news out of China. The strength shows a continued interest, which is a very positive sign."

 

 

Via Bloomberg,

Dani Dudeck, a spokeswoman for San Francisco-based Zynga, confirmed a post introducing a plan to test Bitcoin payments by the company on the reddit.com community website. Players will be able to pay via the BitPay payments service for players of FarmVille 2, CastleVille and other games, Zynga said.

 

“We look forward to hearing from our players about the Bitcoin test so we can continue in our efforts to provide the best possible gaming experience,” Zynga said.

 

Victoria’s Secret Stores LLC has signed up with Gyft, an app that lets users buy gift cards with Bitcoins. Overstock.com Inc. plans to start accepting Bitcoins next summer, Chief Executive Officer Patrick Byrne said in an interview last month.

 

We think there’s an underserved part of the market that wants to use Bitcoins and can’t,” Byrne said. The company needs time before it starts accepting Bitcoins in order to figure out how to process Bitcoin transactions and to hedge Bitcoin sales (the currency is highly volatile), he said.

 

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Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:42 | 4302473 Simplifiedfrisbee
Simplifiedfrisbee's picture

Howdy everyone. Be intelligent using logic and patience. If you follow Fakestar to his virtual reality then your reward in abundance is virtual farming, virtual freedom, and virtual existence. If that outcome will satisfy your insatiable appetite to liberate from the oppression you hold within your conscious then you deserve the result of your decision. So sell a portion of everything you physically own and enter the cloud. You will not notice the hook at first, nor when you are hooked, only when you are gutted.

Everyone with common sense, avoid the virtual slavery and attempt to liberate today consciously. Be active amongst friends and family and stand firm with Love as your foundation.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:47 | 4302702 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

oh man this is dumb

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 15:50 | 4302149 Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

BTC doubles in a couple of weeks - 500 to 1000

 

This is an insiders game - fucking with spread and swing

 

Good luck to the corps trying to run a business with these types of moves

 

A scalpers dream and not much else

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 15:59 | 4302166 statelessman
statelessman's picture

Businesses who care about getting a fixed amount will use BitPay and receive exactly what they want in their national currency.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:05 | 4302184 layman_please
layman_please's picture

it looks like HuoBi is the mover at the moment. volumes are off the chart. http://btckan.com/price

...Huobi circumvents the Chinese ban http://bitcoinexaminer.org/exchange-okcoin-accused-of-faking-data-while-huobi-circumvents-the-chinese-ban/

"...Huobi.com, the Chinese exchange that skirted the ban. In this case, the exchange’s CEO allowed the traders to transfer money into his own personal bank account."

http://www.ofnumbers.com/2013/12/23/why-huobi-purportedly-has-higher-volume-than-btcchina-and-okcoin/

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:34 | 4302271 Debtonation
Debtonation's picture

The Chinese love their gold and their BITCOINS!

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:24 | 4302811 malikai
malikai's picture

As more scalpers show up the volatility will inevitably decline.

As it stands now, the volatility is indeed excellent for trading.

But the volatility doesn't mean much when you can shift your coin any time, any day.

With a decent POS, that's rather easy to do.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:02 | 4302173 InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

I wonder why those bitcoin adobters all use bitpay to convert to fiat right away, if they like those bitcoins so much then why not keep them? Oh right, this kind of "news" is all for free publicity only and nothing more.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:12 | 4302208 One And Only
One And Only's picture

I will happily purchase them from retailers wish g to exchange them. I love watching the prices for everything crash when priced in bitcoin. This is what makes a market :)

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:22 | 4302238 InspectorBird
InspectorBird's picture

yes, pay into yet another ponzi scheme

http://12160.info/photo/927-people-own-half-of-all-bitcoins

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:19 | 4302402 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@InspectorBird

Here's what you never hear in a ponzi scheme - Don't buy any bitcoins. Okay? Please don't. I'd like them for myself.

But keep on shilling you barking-seal troll.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:33 | 4302449 chemystical
chemystical's picture

If you kept them all to yourself, then they'd be worthless (even as collateral because you'd never surrender them in case of default). 

Instead, maybe you, fonestar and CH1 keep all of them?  Then your circle jerk would have a payment system.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:16 | 4302591 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

'Certain types' of people I flat out hope never become involved in the Bitcoin economy.  To others I suggest some research, including a risk assessment, and leave them to make their own decisions.  Bitcoin has legs now and doesn't need the support of ZH readership.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:05 | 4303047 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Frankly, did it ever need the ZH readership?

I somehow doubt ZH has any influence on BTC at all.

But hey, what the hell do I know?

DaddyO

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:02 | 4302177 gdpetti
gdpetti's picture

Yes, yes... BTFD! Keep the sheeple distracted for just a few more months. Wonder who could be beihind this one??? Same crew perhaps? Oh, but it's different this time, right? This isn't a state sponsored fiat currency, it's a statelessdigital fiat currency. Big difference, right?

Funny, right up to the end.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:17 | 4302220 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Bitcoin isn't a fucking fiat currency moron.  If you're going to use terminology in a field you *claim* to be interested in, spend five freaking minutes with a dictionary.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:22 | 4302409 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@fonestar

Funny, any post that uses "sheeple" is usually so fucking far off the scale, its hilarious. Like a reverse-semaphore, signaling that they've fully bought in to "The End Of The World As Know It" scenario and all of its tinfoil spawn.

Anyway, I'm up a significant amount, sitting here relaxing after having bought back in after the dip. Hope you're doing well. Getting to that point where the breakout is scaring the rest of the Bears where a major capituation is near.

We're going to hit some major milestones here on out, going to be a great new year.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:34 | 4302450 akak
akak's picture

You are really quite a desperately smug asshole.  I see zits on you.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:13 | 4302756 Haole
Haole's picture

I see the same boring namecalling BS coming from you.  No insults besides "asshole" and "zit" cracks in your repertoire?   Looks like someoone needs some new material.

Nothing but repetetive insults, BS and mouse clicks on little red arrows.

So, these are the kinds of shit stains that gets upvoted on ZH now?   

Pathetic. 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:39 | 4302857 akak
akak's picture

Zit cream.  Getcha some.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 20:01 | 4302904 Haole
Haole's picture

Thanks for proving me correct.  I'm surprised you haven't upvoted yourself yet too...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 20:10 | 4302921 akak
akak's picture

(yawn)

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:42 | 4304738 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@akak

I don't know if its the triple-digit yields, or the fact that Bitcoin has a market that isn't propped by corrupt PhD's, but you really seem angry for no reason.

You could be riding the Bitcoin train, yet you keep pulling out the same old thing. "zits", "smug asshole", blah blah blah.

You're bitter, we get it. How about applying some of that boundless "value add" and attempting to improve your situation? Or you can keep on being a troll, your choice.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:40 | 4302478 chemystical
chemystical's picture

"We're going to hit some major milestones here on out, going to be a great new year."

That's curious because you've said many times recently that you expected the drop (to $500) and expect a pullback around Feb.  Does "here on out" begin in Feb?

Most of your predictions are self-servingly ambiguous, but "here on out" is incongruous with your previous statments.

Why not post here and now - for posterity's sake - what the chart will look like for the first Q?

 

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:35 | 4302838 malikai
malikai's picture

It bottomed out at $450. I'd say $500 was a damn good guess.

Are you expecting perfect accuracy and timing? Or are you just mad?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:36 | 4303292 chemystical
chemystical's picture

You must have NEVER read ANY of that jackwad's posts.  He NEVER "predicted" that until AFTER it happened, and then he told us all that he fully expected it, and that he expected a pullback sometime around Feb.

I would have posted exact quotes, but my post was directed squarely at him.  Your recall of fight club rules is woeful.  I'm sure that he and the other pumpers would gladly welcome you into their circlejerk.  (Feel free to deconstruct that lasty compound word into 2 words).

Nope, not angry - just calling BULLSHIT whenh I see it.  Like the blockchain, this asshole's record is out there for all to read.  Pardon me for having a memory better than yours.  (See also my question to phoneystar - which he/she/it has yet to answer for the 5th fucking time.   Telling lies is a bitch because the liar has to remember something that is not true.  Telling the truth is much easier).

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:42 | 4304749 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@chemystical

Eh?

Oh right, you think because I said one thing at one point in time - it holds that way until I post my sentiment on another thread.

See, I'm doing this thing called "trading my own account", so I can't be bothered to fill you in on every price wiggle or how my strategy changes according to my proprietary indicators.

Predictions?

Sure, Bitcoin will exceed Gold Parity in 2014.

You can tape that one to your refrigerator, pal.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:16 | 4302217 observer007
observer007's picture

next target 2000

Realtime quotes n charts:

http://btcpost.net/

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:44 | 4302303 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Charts on BitCoin- that's so precious......

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:24 | 4302415 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@jcaz

What's even more precious is comparing asset classes against Bitcoin. :)

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:26 | 4302771 Haole
Haole's picture

Losing one's purchasing power in gold (compared to BTC) is more honorable and respected on ZH than phenominal gains, didn't 'cha know?  Losing is winning!  ;)

/s

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 22:50 | 4306595 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

http://flic.kr/p/iFQMoV next target $300

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:20 | 4302234 TheRideNeverEnds
TheRideNeverEnds's picture

Keep in mind, this is in an "investment" environment where such thinks as Twitter and Facebook are valued at 35 and 105 billion respectively. 

 

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:48 | 4302486 Donewidit
Donewidit's picture

It's a freaking joke that won't die...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:20 | 4302242 mobius8curve
mobius8curve's picture

Notice it is the corporations that are reaching out to Bitcoin. The anonymity of its origin points directly to the cartel that both controls the internet and the corporations that eventually control the governments and the masses they govern. Gold will have its place at the top of the food chain but the masses get to play with the virtual:

"and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name."

Mobius8curve

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:32 | 4302267 GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Anonymity? - lol

You buttcoin retards are totally delusional.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:32 | 4302430 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@mobius8curve

Oh no, somebody believes the centuries-old-manuscript that is essentially a huge game of "telephone", written by the victors and meddling clerics over the ages. Funny thing, if Bitcoin was still not being used by any companies, you barking-seal trolls would be using that - "See, nobody uses it so Bitcoin is crap".

But now, when companies ARE using it, its "Oh yeah, its one WORLD CONSPIRACY BLAH-TINFOIL-BLAH". Love that subjective double-standard bullshit. Reminds me of something else... oh yeah, the double-standards in most religions.

And what's with the name-signing stuff? You think we're going to forget who you are by the time we finish reading your post? Is it because you're using a 4-inch high monitor salvaged from the trash so you forgot if you have a name displayed? Alzheimers? Crazy tinfoil overdose?

Who knows. Just keep your bible-thumping prognostications where they belong - in a dark abbey somewhere.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:17 | 4302551 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

"and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name."

I am neither a fundamentalist nor a Christian, but I have to hand it to John, he really seems to have nailed it.  Of course we are still a couple of years away from this prophesy becoming total reality.  Guess I will give John +1000 when I get my first RFID chip involuntarily planted up my wazoo and buy a latte with it.  Pretty damn good description from a culture not too far removed from the Bronze Age. And this Bitcoin just may be the Trojan Horse that the Dickheads use to establish their universal and exclusive global digital currency.  Fits right into their perverse sense of humor.  Rather than hold you up at gunpoint to get their way, they much prefer to let your animal spirits do yourself in.  Such as paying $500 of hard earned cash to purchase a device which spies on you and gives you brain cancer after ten years.  Yuk! Yuk!
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:38 | 4303858 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

RFID is already obsolete for this purpose.

Your DNA is your serial number.

The portable officer-only DNA-reader, a microfluidic chip manufactured by netbio, reads that serial number.

Go on, try to remove it. Remember, the chip is never inside you. Your DNA can be extracted by force even if it kills you.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:50 | 4304766 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@el Gallinazo

Suuuuuuuuuuuure.

Everything is part of the massive conspiracy to control every word that escapes your keyboard.

You barking seal trolls have amazing rationalization capabilities. If Bitcoin isn't being considered for regulation, its too pathetic to bother with. If the Feds are trying to impose their control, then its part of the BIG BAD CONSPIRACY.

One thing about nutjobs, they tend to have extreme views instead of the more reality-based moderate outcomes. You see, reality is boring - they can't quite tolerate everything just humming along and people living their lives.

Hell no, it has to be the ULTIMATE SHOWDOWN DISASTER or something.

Whatever pal.

We know that they'll attempt to co-opt Bitcoin, its a pretty basic logical extension from the 'dirty tricks' handbook. Your problem is thinking they made it up in the first place, and your second mistake is thinking they'll succeed.

I guess they indoctrinated you well, you're already primed to surrender.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:24 | 4302243 wcvarones
wcvarones's picture

Zynga???

You mean I can buy fake fucking sheep with my Bitcoin???

Well, that's a game-changer!!!

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:32 | 4302260 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I bet you can rent one for an hour ;-)

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:13 | 4302378 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

That is a lot of foreplay.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:14 | 4302775 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Is that where sheeple come from?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:35 | 4302808 Haole
Haole's picture

Bitcoin ATM coming to Hong Kong, treat yourself to some wooly action WB7 and let us know how it goes.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:32 | 4302828 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

But who'd shear who?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:22 | 4302791 Haole
Haole's picture

Zynga is virtually irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.  Another step in global adoption is what one might care to notice.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:16 | 4302273 sixsigma cygnus...
sixsigma cygnusatratus's picture

I was thinking about if one wanted to successfully unwind a Ponzi, what would be the best way to do it?  If you could surreptiously convince your investors to trade their positions from your Ponzi A to an anonymous stateless super-encrypted digital Ponzi B, would that work?  Ponzi A could potentially have a soft landing and when Ponzi B crashes, you tell your former investors that they did it to themselves.  Just thinking...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:39 | 4302290 bcecil
bcecil's picture

It isn't Zynga that made this price move. The inscrutable Chinese have found away around thier governments clampdown on 3rd party money changers.. Volume on fiatleak.com in last 12 hours shows China sucked up 73, 102 btc to USA 17,397 btc.. Activity has gone back to pre-clamp down days for the last 3 days...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:41 | 4302302 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

odd to think of cryptography as a currency...in whatever form it comes in. simple copper pennies would seem to suffice to test the true value of "virtual currency."

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:42 | 4302307 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

zynga is an interesting company actually. the have been getting real money for virtual goods for decades now.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:30 | 4302637 chemystical
chemystical's picture

with all due respect, Zynga was founded in July 2007. 

perhaps you were thinking of baddabinga?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:08 | 4302347 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Funny that everyone is telling me this is the future of currency when the price swings 100% every few months.

I'll take the gold and silver I can weigh in my hands, thank you.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:32 | 4302443 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Soul Glow

Sure, who uses bits anymore? They're just what displays this site on your screen, communicates your post about gold to the database backend of this site, and pretty much do everything in this world, including showing you the latest spot price of Gold.

But turn your back, sure. I find that to be rather short-sighted. If anything, use BOTH to your advantage. But hey, more for me if you don't participate, so thanks!

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:50 | 4302503 chemystical
chemystical's picture

"But hey, more for me if you don't participate, so thanks!"

Now, THAT'S a shrewd understanding of the market.  Fewer people play, and there are more for you...and at lower cost per unit!  Bravo!  No, wait, if no one but you participates then you'll have them all, and they'll be worthless.

This is one market where the magnitude of its success depends ENTIRELY on the scale of the market.

Here's to hoping that you and fonestar achieve a monopoly on them.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:01 | 4303026 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

This here ZH audience won't make one iota of difference to "the magnitude of its success."  Nice ring to that, by the way.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:48 | 4303316 chemystical
chemystical's picture
  • from the king of non-sequiturs and strawmen
  • your point is 100% valid but also 100% off-topic.  No worries, I've come to expect that.
  • May I assume that you agree with the OP's stated principle of "don't buy.  more for me"?
  • And yet you and the pumper circle try so hard to convince the non-believers. 
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:19 | 4303644 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

I'm personally still in acquisition mode so would like the price low.  Merchants like Zynga don't care what the price is, they are just looking to cut fees and chargebacks.

Below $666 I keep my mouth shut and buy in.  Above that mark I'll be out here answering questions if I think I can and correcting what I see as inaccuracies. Buyer beware, y'all. BTC is still risky and approach it with the same or more research you would any other investment.  That being said, for them that have eyes to see, BTC pretty much sells itself.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:53 | 4304778 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@chemystical

Riiiiight.

And YOU'RE making the mistake thinking that those who aren't participating will be the majority. Here's a hint - the price reflects adoption, as does the volumes reported by the exchanges.

I know, I know, pesky facts get in the way of your barking seal troll good fun times, but its the truth. Please go back to your "The End Of The World As We Know It" fantasy world.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:02 | 4302534 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Got the bulk of my silver below 18, gold below 1000, and BTC under 100.

I'm a serial early adopter, I only wish I got in earlier on all 3. I really don't get the animosity toward BTC from many here, I guess it has a lot to do with the fact I own them and the price I paid.

Wouldn't shock me in the least to see a multi-thousand $ handle on BTC in 2014. Also wouldn't be surprised if it goes the other way and kind of hope it does. Looking at BTC's track record, amazing things happen following price crashes. That BTC comes back bigger and better each time should be a clue that it as the leading form of crypto currency is here to stay. It's a square peg that can't be forced into a round hole, it defies all attempts by those who try.

I find that most detractors -- from Paul Krugman to Chris Duane -- don't make much sense in their at times hysterical denunciations.For those with an open mind about the idea, try some fresh Trace Mayer:

http://www.runtogold.com/2014/01/the-crypto-wars-with-freedom-of-speech-...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:53 | 4303672 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Trace Mayer is a great observer, + 1!

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:53 | 4302719 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

It would be fun to watch the price action of all markets where circuit breakers and logics don't stop trading when prices become "too volatile". 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 16:59 | 4302352 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

I'm calling another breakout up till $1100 in the next 72 hours

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:37 | 4302453 slightlyskeptical
slightlyskeptical's picture

The New Long Term Portfolio (for suckers)

20% S&P 500

20% Small Cap

20% International

10% Dotcom - added in 2000

10% Real Estate- added in 2006

10% Gold -  added in 2008

10% Bitcoin - aded in 2014

 

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:48 | 4302496 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Can't go wrong with the iron 7

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:36 | 4302462 DaveA
DaveA's picture

Progressives complain constantly about economic inequality, yet what is their solution?  A ever-growing welfare state funded by unlimited money-printing?  So we end up with a Bitcoin-based economy where 99% of Bitcoins are held by early adopters and 99% of the population has no Bitcoins, a wealth disparity surpassing the worst African kleptocracies.  Great job guys, kicking the ball into your own net again.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:29 | 4302619 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

"So we end up with a Bitcoin-based economy where 99% of Bitcoins are held by early adopters and 99% of the population has no Bitcoins."

No, fucknut, you start there. That's what early adoption is all about, as it's the second step in the market saturation process:

http://www.jumpassociates.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/adoptioncurve1-...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:33 | 4302635 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Nice. 'Ole Dick can still Bring It....

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:46 | 4302699 chemystical
chemystical's picture

with all due respect, that's where most everything starts.  100%/0%.  Everything = utter failures, brilliant successes, and everything between.  The 2nd step also applies to them all. 

surely you're not implying that somehow this road to success is unique to Btc or that because Btc started there it will ipso facto lead to market saturation.

my read of the OP's comment was on the irony of the situation, and that comment was spot on.  "Early" as in "early adoption" somewhat belies the facts if it is true that such a large concentration remains in the hands of so few 5 years after launch.  And that was what the OP was aiming at.  

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:57 | 4302723 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

make sure your bitcoin is in the shape of a dildo, so it has some residual value 4 ya/

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:33 | 4302644 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

boohoo.  Bitcoin has never made the claim that it will eliminate poverty.  However, taking the debasement weapon away from Central Banks might level the playing field.  

Where were you when the whitepaper was released for peer review?  Where were you when the network publicly booted up and the first bitcoins could have been mined on any old laptop?  Personally, I was sniffin' glue and changing diapers instead of studying cryptography but I don't bitch and moan about it.  That's life.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:17 | 4302779 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

ok hound, so too little, too late, but since you linked it, will make a bitch (with respect) post-haste:

whitepaper, 1. introduction  Commerce on the Internet has come to rely almost exclusively on financial institutions serving as trusted third parties to process electronic payments. While the system works well enough for most transactions, it still suffers from the inherent weaknesses of the trust based model. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads.What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party. 

ok, even a dimwit like myself can get this, and agree w/o argument.  
The system is secure as long as honest nodes collectively control more CPU power than any cooperating group of attacker nodes.

you mentioned this yesterday in our discussion.   here's what i can't wrap my lil' noodle around:  how is the dependence on honest nodes for security not a form of trust?   isn't the system simply replacing one form of trust for another?    

6. Incentive The incentive may help encourage nodes to stay honest. If a greedy attacker is able to assemble more CPU power than all the honest nodes, he would have to choose between using it to defraud people by stealing back his payments, or using it to generate new coins. He ought to find it more profitable to play by the rules, such rules that favour him with more new coins than everyone else combined, than to undermine the system and the validity of his own wealth.

ok, i get this as well, and admit it's quite ingenious...as long as the attacker is not a party with an alternative incentive, like for example, a government agency or central bank.    this is all good, as long as the system can serve as complementary and exist as a supplement to the current monetary system.   but when it is promoted as a killer to the current monetary system (which the whitepaper does not address btw), then those are pretty powerful enemies to be making blanket assumptions as to their incentives.

12. Conclusion We have proposed a system for electronic transactions without relying on trust

again, it may not be the trust the current system relies upon, but there indeed is trust and the whitepaper itself proves how & why.

They vote with their CPU power, expressing their acceptance of valid blocks by working on extending them and rejecting invalid blocks by refusing to work on them. Any needed rules and incentives can be enforced with this consensus mechanism.

setting aside the subject of our discussion yesterday and how CPU power requires energy (still centralized) for a moment, consensus implies trust, so again how can the BC system be a trustless system?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 20:13 | 4302924 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Good points and the crux of the Bitcoin experiment.  

'Trustless' in the narrow view pertains to discarding the need of a centralized third party to ensure against counterfeits and double spends.  From there we get to the gamble that a worldwide network of miners acting in their own self-interests are and will be more powerful than attackers.  This is an untested theory and should be risk evaluated by everybody getting involved in bitcoin.  

You point out that the benefits of the system have utility.  Now, are there ways to gain those benefits without the inherent risk and energy expense of Proof-of-Work based mining?  If there are... that could be a breakthrough on par with or greater than Bitcoin...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:41 | 4303461 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

benefits of the system have utility : absolutely, otherwise not worth the energy expended by both of us, yes?   

gamble that a worldwide network of miners acting in their own self-interests are and will be more powerful than attackers.  helluva gamble, based on the revelations of the last six months, especially when your team members are only looking out for themselves.    sounds like the Knicks, post-Ewing...good luck with that ;~)

Now, are there ways to gain those benefits without the inherent risk and energy expense of Proof-of-Work based mining?  what if it's not an either/or proposition, but what if you could piggyback PoW mining off of new or established "trust" networks and/or current processing power that is being underutilized?

a friend just showed me this tonight from one of the cats at pirate bay:  https://flattr.com/

forget the names of their current incarnations a moment,  if you can take the flattr concept and marry it with a BC concept and develop software to enable a tiny bit of mining in the background while everyone's goofing around on their favorite site (with said site getting a cut of the cake), then i betya a bitcoin you'll have enough PP to forge off any attacker you wish, given that they have zero trust in each other and will never be able to collaborate on the level required to crack the encryption.

i/o/w trust might be the best weapon in the arsenal, and anonymity's dead anyhoo, so why not use it?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:29 | 4303566 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Anything is possible.  The general idea is to experiment and let the market decide what's best.  

For the task they are designed for, modern BTC mining equipment is many times more efficient per unit of energy than a personal computer.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:40 | 4303911 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

contrary to my assumptions yesterday, efficiency doesn't lead to decreased energy consumption.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Energy_Consumption

  • more efficient mining gear does not reduce energy use of the bitcoin network. It will only raise the network difficulty

thus, under the current model, where high-end equipment is purchased & utilized solely to keep the system securely functioning, equipment will have to be continuously upgraded to keep up with network difficulty, especially when the attackers have access to all the new shiny toys.   a classic case of the prisoner's dilemma (or Steve Jobs' wet dream), yes?

wouldn't a more resilient model be one where mining is distributed across a larger amount of machines, regardless of their processing efficiency?

anyways, thanks for the respectful discussion.  it's fascinating shit, to say the least.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:37 | 4302464 Sufiy
Sufiy's picture


"Gold 3.0": Want to create the next Bitcoin? This website makes it easy – too easy

So much for the "Gold 2.0" and new store of value - Bitcoin's value proposition is fading away by the day. It is not so anonymous as a lot of people think, it is not so easy to transfer, scams around Bitcoin are happening daily in more and more forms. Banksters are entering the game if they were not there already from the very beginning. And NSA prints are all over Bitcoin according to some reports on SHA256. But now you can have your own Gold 3.0 - just chose the name. OK, maybe for you it will be difficult to compete with pumpers of Bitcoin, but JPMorgan or FED can easily do so. It is very interesting to note that China has effectively banned Bitcoin from any authorised financial transactions, but FED is not so restrictive at least now - so who is really behind it now?
  With Bitcoin crossing $1000 mark again at Mt.Gox today we issue our Warning like we did last timeBitcoin is building a Double Top potentially and level of $1240 will be crucial. It is the great present to Chinese holders - we guess that they will be happy to sell into this strength with restrictions for FIAT withdrawals from Exchanges coming in place by end of this month.

 

http://sufiy.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gold-30-want-to-create-next-bitcoin....

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:37 | 4302859 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

There were roughly 400 manufacturers in the early stage of o the automotive industry and a roughly similar number in the early stages of the personal computer industry.

Expect much the same with cryptocurrencies.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:56 | 4302519 q99x2
q99x2's picture

What is Zynga?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:24 | 4303846 Villageidiot777
Villageidiot777's picture

It is an imaginary farm, where you can buy imaginary cows with imaginary money.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 17:58 | 4302522 adr
adr's picture

Using Bitpay is not accepting Bitcoin for payments. Zynga will trade a game for dollars, if Zynga sold a game for Bitcoin and kept the Bitcoin then that would be accepting Bitcoin for a payment.

Accepting something through an outside means of exchange is not the same as accepting something directly. 

This and the Overstock bullshit has been great for the pennystock Bitcoin pushers. Doubling Bitcoin in short order. Still doesn't matter for just about everyone that can't buy a Bitcoin if they try.

Near the end of every scam every pumper tries one last big push to cash out at maximum value.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:35 | 4302653 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 u cant fight it, you're outnumbered by idiots

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:38 | 4302671 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Well I hope said "pumpers" are prepared to wait awhile, because just like Gold and Silver, BTC is nowhere near its maximum value.

 Something you don't understand, doing something you can't comprehend. Better stick to phyzz.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:12 | 4303849 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

bitcoin will easily be pennies then gone.

Maximum value: zero.

price is not value. Price is just for bag-holders.

I can't make anything out of bitcoins. I can't drive them into my speakers for power or my computer's power supply. I can't configure or upgrade my OS with them.

They are the most useless string of bits ever.

I can't even use them to sign my digital messages - GPG does that much better, much faster, much more securely. My keys are never smaller than 8192 bits. Bitcoin has nothing on PGP / GPG.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 20:12 | 4302691 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Aye, Bitcoin is still too volatile for most merchants and they still have expenses to meet in USD currency.  Bootstrapping a new grassroots currency isn't going to just happen overnight.  Cutting down on payment fees could impact their bottom line, however, making those companies more profitable.  And hey, a little PR buzz doesn't hurt along with a couple new nerd followers. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:57 | 4304792 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@adr

I know, its hard holding on to Gold, seeing how the price is completely controlled by those that own you. Just try to funnel some of that energy into producing good outcomes for yourself. You could've been riding on the triple-digit-yield Bitcoin train, but pride and stubborness are powerful forces I suppose.

Its all a "scam" and a "pump", eh? Hah, that's rich. I guess you're so used to being fucked over by the legacy banking system, brokers, rigged markets and crooked PhD's debasing your currency that you honestly don't have any brain cells left to contemplate an existence outside of that.

Funny how "captured" you are, its a psychological study in the making.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:15 | 4302527 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Zynga is a provider of social game services founded in July 2007 and headquartered in San Francisco, California, USA

It is a dinky company and hasn't much of anything to do with the price of bitcoin.

I like people that use physical events to back up their beliefs. That's what do: make it up as I go.

If you check out last May's price action it is almost identical without any such ho hum reason. But people like to believe. Are you a believer? Do you need a witness?

Yes Lord we have a witness here in our audience today.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:27 | 4302616 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 btc is the epitomy of fa66otry.

 

 I am truly among morons

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:12 | 4303524 pipes
pipes's picture

...where you belong...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:31 | 4302628 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 All these 'accepting' bitcoin. They are accepting nothing.  They cash them in right away.

 

 Its a marketing ploy you imbeciles.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:12 | 4302777 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

If this thing with the BitPay pass-through gains traction, credit card companies will be the ones who feel it.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:18 | 4303843 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

credit card companies LEND money.
They're also unsecured.
Bitcoin offers nothing.
White paper? Did the white paper cover how btc acts like Visa or American Express? No.
You're making shit up to fit your dream-narrative.
the LSD may wear off in time for you to comprehend the massive collapse of BTC.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:35 | 4303848 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

WEEEEEHEEEeeee  Wowie!  Wait, what?

Credit card companies do not lend money to a merchant, Zynga in this case.  CCs pay the merchant (lending credit to the customer but Zynga doesn't care about that particular detail).  From the merchant's perspective PayPal and Visa are basically the same, only differing in their fee structure and fraud/chargeback policies.  Zynga can probably save money using BitPay as the payment processor, cutting into Visa's business.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:14 | 4305846 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You're an idiot.
Credit card companies LEND to the CUSTOMER to transfer credits TO THE MERCHANT.
Bitcoin doesn't work that way.
You're confusing credit with debit/interac.
Credit cards always bring NEW currency into existence for every transaction.
Sounds like you need to read a lot more than just the shitcoin whitepaper.

Visa's #1 business is the 18+ % LOAN COST to the CUSTOMER. Fuck the merchant, that's just cream on top. It's no 18+% annual compounding interest.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:32 | 4302630 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 I also accept bitcoin ,  I sell you something with a 10% markup, how much would you like to buy with your stinky bitcoin?

 

 I handle up to 100k at a time .

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:42 | 4302686 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Thing is, no one would do business with you. In any currency.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 20:51 | 4303013 PaperWillBurn
PaperWillBurn's picture

With bitcoin you can sell things cheaper and still make MORE profit.  CC's are dead

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:11 | 4303224 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 if the scum had cash they wouldnt need credit, dope

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:12 | 4303838 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I wrote not even 2 weeks ago that a spread would easily form of -200 to +200 perhaps worse for anyone taking bitcoin to work as a retailer.
Lo & behold today I checked on localbitcoins and guess what? That's precisely the spread I was seeing.
These are people who want currency & want to bilk btc holders with it.
It's clear as day.
You can lose 200/btc to sell and pay an extra 200 btc to buy. These aren't people saying "meh, the market is what it is, pay/sell what it says" - these are bilkers who actually want dollars, not bitcoins.
It's clear as day or there'd be no spread.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:31 | 4302638 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

BTFBTCDB
Buy the fuckin BTC Dip Baby

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:37 | 4302649 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 yep, prob is , the only dip i would be interested in would be about 10 cents each.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:57 | 4302722 Grosvenor Pkwy
Grosvenor Pkwy's picture

My estimate of the fair value of 1 Bitcoin is about $1, based on a simple analogy.

A single mp3 song is a uniquely identifiable set of digital bits, difficult to fake because you can listen to it. It retails for about $1.

A Bitcoin is a uniquely identifiable set of digital bits, difficult to fake because it must obey certain mathematical rules. It ought to be worth a similar value.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:11 | 4302766 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

+1

A for Effort.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 20:19 | 4302799 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

That's your subjective valuation, which you're entitled to. Others are entitled to theirs, of course, which is what makes a market. And I seriously doubt that yours will hold up.

Me, I see BTC and its offspring putting money on its properly performing (sound money) path of ever-increasing purchasing power, where wages do down in nominal terms (as robitics replace human labor) but not in real terms, and everybody wins.

Except the state, of course, which, as always, can kiss my ass.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 20:46 | 4302993 TheHound73
TheHound73's picture

Uniqueness, scarcity and desire work together to determine value.  Reproduction of any given mp3 song is almost costless for music publishers.  They rarely, if ever, announce a given mp3 will be issued in limited amounts.  There are out-of-print albums I desire but they are priced as collector's items. If Tony Bennet announced his next single will only be available in 1 million mp3 copies they might sell for more than $1.  Actually that's an interesting idea and I can see ways the blockchain could enforce scarcity. 

Bitcoins are virtual scarce goods and your analogy is weak.  Anyways, get your bids up on an exchange for $1/BTC, sit back and wait for them to execute. :>

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:40 | 4303763 ILoveDebt
ILoveDebt's picture

The fact that you got 5 upvotes for such a moronic comment is sad.  It's like someone equating the value of a pound of iron and a pound of gold because they are both metals.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:57 | 4304814 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@Grosvenor Pkwy

Hahahahahaha. Oh man.

Okay, first, you claim you can't replicate an arbitrary set of digitized sound waves. And then, for a final encore, you make the crazy illogical leap that Bitcoin is therefore worth the market price of an mp3 encoded music file.

They aren't the same, and if you can't tell the difference, that says a lot more about you than it does about Bitcoin. Just throw your computer out the window, you've reached your peak utilization of it.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:38 | 4302661 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 zinga will take your used underwear for trade, since what they are selling has less than zero value.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:38 | 4302861 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

However Zynga did add that they are not willing to take yours.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:54 | 4302703 uranian
uranian's picture

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:54 | 4302710 mobius8curve
mobius8curve's picture

@ Exponere Mendaces

You seem to have quite a sensitivity to truth.

The fact that Bitcoin is establishing itself as the choice of currency among corporations to promote buying and selling for the masses should come as no surprise. 

The fact that something like this was forcast 2000 years ago seems to bother you greatly. 

Truth always seems to find itself standing alone far above the cess pool :o)

Sanctify them in the truth: thy word is truth.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:52 | 4302717 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 i never listen to the rantings of someone that cant figure out how to customize their avatar

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:25 | 4303554 mijev
mijev's picture

Omfg did nostradamus also predict bitcoins?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:02 | 4304833 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

@mobius8curve

Oh right, a "true believer" is warning me that bitcoin can be co-opted, therefore it is the tool of their evil designs. It doesn't occur to you in the midst of your holy ruminations that bitcoin has utility, and presents a "prisoner's dilemma" to those that don't adopt its technology.

No, it has to be the "evil conspiracy" part. Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

Somehow its hard for me to believe you, seeing how you put a lot of faith in a book that is filled with the combined lies and aspirations of every king and priest who sought to control the unwashed masses.

Your little black book is the culmination of a psychology experiment that has proven to be very successful - its mission - infect the mind with a viral meme that can't be shaken, and provide easy control over those who subscribe to its contradictory ramblings.

A human mind is a terrible thing to waste, unfortunately you've been infected beyond all hope.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:52 | 4302712 Godisanhftbot
Godisanhftbot's picture

 when they pull the rug out, who will be holding the bag, besides the twinklevoss ladies?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 18:59 | 4302724 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

bitcoin does share similarity to a pyramid scheme -

but that withstanding, the virtual world makes so much money that it is 'virtually' incalculable.  

the young will spend money on virtual images/entertaiment in droves.  so I have no solid arguement against this fasination:  Hatsune Miku for example.

jb

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:28 | 4302814 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

Doesn't this just prove it's an NSA psyop? Now they want to get all the housewives into bitcoin, using - FFS, Zygna - as their Trojan Horse.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 19:29 | 4302827 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

I thought Zynga would have gone with Smurfberries.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:16 | 4303063 Billy Shears
Billy Shears's picture

Desperate! Zynga is going to ZERO, no doubt about it!

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:35 | 4303450 mijev
mijev's picture

What will make things very interesting is when you can relatively anonymously transfer money between the world's banks and BTC without the banks knowing. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:10 | 4303628 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

No no no. Forget bitcoin. Gold is the only thing you want to buy ever. Ever! Well, silver maybe, but only if some cartoon bears tell you to.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:27 | 4303650 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

<-I am not a neanderthal.
<-I have to hold something pretty and shiny in my hands to value it.

Bitcoin is not a currency. It is a technological innovation that can functiona s a currency. It has both monetary value and non-monetary value. The non-moentary value is the most exciting part about it. The non-monetary value as a payment processing protocol based on math eliminates the need for trust faciliated by bloated legacy financial insttituions. A person can use bitcoin as a pipe between cash-in and cash-out services on both ends to send any amount of fiat internatinoally directly peer to peer for free. The utilty of this non-montary value is the same regardless if the price of one unit of bitcoin is $1 or $1 trillion. Because it is a technology once invented it cannot be uninvented. Once knowledge of this technology is in the public domain it cannot be unknown. 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:26 | 4303655 bitgroin
bitgroin's picture

Are you from the future?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:24 | 4303751 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

Only your future.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:01 | 4303922 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

non-moentary value is the most exciting part about it. 

absolutely.   note how the whitepaper focuses solely on this aspect (i.e. frictionless exchange mechanism) and doesn't address the monetary nature of it (i.e. store of value) at all.  yet, all the attention is focused on what you define as the monetary value aspect which may or may not be an inherent feature of the system (TBD) and conversely, may or may not be its achilles heel (depending on whether you agree that its utility is dependent on its price or not.   personally i think it has more to do with price stability/volatility (1st derivative), then its actual amount).

i/m/h/o BC has caught too much attention, too quickly, for all the wrong reasons, before it's had the proper opportunity to build resilience and tweak flaws in the system.   i could be completely off-base, however, if this is correct, then you have to wonder about who and why.

agree about the tech, just don't forget about napster (RIP).

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:52 | 4303720 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Looks like the bag-holders have almost stepped up.

The final bait's been hooked.

Once the volume spikes & price is locked in it will spike more & who knows... 600? 400? 200? (maybe 140?)... let's recall why ZNGA stock tanked in the first place, and ask how accepting more video-game credits will help them. Maybe btc will become the official currency of Mafia Wars. Or maybe only in a segment reserved for a Tron-lookalike set of missions.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:27 | 4303754 John___Connor
John___Connor's picture

Want to know the puchline? The price of bitcoin is 100% irrelevant. Price crash or not, it will creatively destruct most, if not all, of the legacy financial services infrastrctuure. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:42 | 4303815 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Not that I can see but who knows, maybe you spotted something I didn't.

How's that play out, best that you can figure?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:10 | 4303794 Shrapnel
Shrapnel's picture

Looking at Fiatleak, Chinese purchasing of BTC has really intensified in just the last 24 hours. Looks more than anything else like the Chinese have found a way to circumvent their govt's BTC clamp-down. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:08 | 4303928 Debugas
Debugas's picture

what is Zynga ?

Never heard of it before

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