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Ron Paul On Iraq Part 2: "The ‘Liberation’ Neocons Would Rather Forget"

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From Ron Paul

Iraq: The ‘Liberation’ Neocons Would Rather Forget

Remember Fallujah? Shortly after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the US military fired on unarmed protestors, killing as many as 20 and wounding dozens. In retaliation, local Iraqis attacked a convoy of US military contractors, killing four. The US then launched a full attack on Fallujah to regain control, which left perhaps 700 Iraqis dead and the city virtually destroyed.

According to press reports last weekend, Fallujah is now under the control of al-Qaeda affiliates. The Anbar province, where Fallujah is located, is under siege by al-Qaeda. During the 2007 “surge,” more than 1,000 US troops were killed “pacifying” the Anbar province.  Although al-Qaeda was not in Iraq before the US invasion, it is now conducting its own surge in Anbar.
 
For Iraq, the US “liberation” is proving far worse than the authoritarianism of Saddam Hussein, and it keeps getting worse. Last year was Iraq’s deadliest in five years. In 2013, fighting and bomb blasts claimed the lives of 7,818 civilians and 1,050 members of the security forces. In December alone nearly a thousand people were killed.
 
I remember sitting through many hearings in the House International Relations Committee praising the “surge,” which we were told secured a US victory in Iraq. They also praised the so-called “Awakening,” which was really an agreement by insurgents to stop fighting in exchange for US dollars. I always wondered what would happen when those dollars stopped coming.
 
Where are the surge and awakening cheerleaders now?
 
One of them, Richard Perle, was interviewed last year on NPR and asked whether the Iraq invasion that he pushed was worth it. He replied:

I've got to say I think that is not a reasonable question. What we did at the time was done in the belief that it was necessary to protect this nation. You can't a decade later go back and say, well, we shouldn't have done that.

Many of us were saying all along that we shouldn’t have done that – before we did it. Unfortunately the Bush Administration took the advice of the neocons pushing for war and promising it would be a “cakewalk.” We continue to see the results of that terrible mistake, and it is only getting worse.
 
Last month the US shipped nearly a hundred air-to-ground missiles to the Iraqi air force to help combat the surging al-Qaeda. Ironically, the same al-Qaeda groups the US is helping the Iraqis combat are benefiting from the US covert and overt war to overthrow Assad next door in Syria. Why can’t the US government learn from its mistakes?
 
The neocons may be on the run from their earlier positions on Iraq, but that does not mean they have given up. They were the ones pushing for an attack on Syria this summer. Thankfully they were not successful. They are now making every effort to derail President Obama’s efforts to negotiate with the Iranians. Just last week William Kristol urged Israel to attack Iran with the hope we would then get involved. Neoconservative Senators from both parties recently introduced the Nuclear Weapon Free Iran Act of 2013, which would also bring us back on war-footing with Iran.
 
Next time the neocons tell us we must attack, just think “Iraq.”

 

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Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:42 | 4303128 LetThemEatRand
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It was always about opening the oil fields to the multi-national oil companies.  They are making billions pumping oil from Iraq (Saddam had shut them out).  If you accept that it was always about this, it is easy to understand why they lied about everything else.  

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:45 | 4303140 kliguy38
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Definitely a major element of it and now the neocons have already begun to change the script claiming through the MSM that "we left too soon"............as though we ever left...we have a hundred thousand private contractor mercenaries guarding our loot so we haven't left ...the globalist will never let us leave until the suck the blood out of them......and us

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:34 | 4303574 markmotive
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The Iraq invasion simply unleashed a decade of hell.

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2013/06/iraq-decade-of-hell.html

We all know why the US really toppled Saddam. And it wasn't because of his chemical weapons.

The Petrodollar - War Machine

http://www.planbeconomics.com/2014/01/the-petrodollar-war-machine.html

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:43 | 4303596 upWising
upWising's picture

There was a time, early-on, in the campaign to "Free Little 'Raqi" from the Tyranny of Uncle Saddam, when the campaign was christened:

Operation

Iraqi

Liberty

 

(Just before this little pearl of Truth in Advertising went to press, its significance was discovered by someone in the administration with two digits in their IQ, and the endeavour was re-christened Operation Iraqi Freedom).  

Never Let a Good Acronym GO To Waste.©

Amercia is Jesus' Favorite Country.©

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:36 | 4303711 Rusty Shorts
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ROPE 2016

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:37 | 4303854 malikai
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One could make a long laundry list of reasons why the invasion happened. I'd have to say the reason was not solely that the neocons are evil. Sure that was the impetus, but it was taking advantage of a simple fact about "American Exceptionalism" we can see in technicolor right here, from the annals of 2003.

Chris Hedges' Rockford College Speech. Still makes me ill to this day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPi4lRhEtgk

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:36 | 4303910 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

Let's not stop at the neocons......cause there's nothing worse than a neocon pregressive.....yes they do exist.

In fact....they're damn near everywhere.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:28 | 4303936 malikai
malikai's picture

Neocon, Neoliberal, all look the same to me. It's just a label for the individual subgroup executing the agenda.

I should have been more clear about that.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:10 | 4304106 DOT
DOT's picture

Perhaps we can agree on "meta-" as the prefix, as all of the content is derivative and prepackaged.

(Bunch of punks there at RC. Not a single analytical skill has survived their "education". I am proud to have been declared persona non grata at this institution.)

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:00 | 4304233 BobPaulson
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Wasn't it to follow through with the moral outrage created by 9/11? Hand, glove; glove, hand.

For me the saddest thing is how passionate people were for the invasion at the time. It is simply astonishing how easily people can be manipulated into just about anything. My guess is 75% of the people posting here right now were strongly in favour of it. 

I remember watching Tony Blair diatribes about a ICBM chemical strike on London, and people were genuinely afraid. How about Colin Powell showing silly powerpoint graphics that looked like they were from the "Money for nothing" video saying that the evil 1980 holder of the Key to Detroit was devising such evil mobile weapons arsenals that the US hadn't even seen them yet? It was like "Wag the Dog" and almost nobody was calling bullshit.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:32 | 4304490 malikai
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I didn't see that video at the time. It was only within the last few years that a friend showed it to me.

But I remember 2003 very well. That was the year that the republican in me died. Shortly after, I realized it was time to get out of dodge.

But I guess I was lucky. I was already aware of Hubbert's curve. The whole Iraq thing made everything as clear as day to me.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:09 | 4303742 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

yo kno way dogg thats mynigg dogg i went ot chool wit at nigga og that nigga iraqui freedom dog we went to war to rotec amecains dogg now yall niggas is swetin thae dmin dogg they just protetii u . 1

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:02 | 4303976 DavidC
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I'd like to arrow you down but I can't as I haven't the faintest idea what you've said/written.

DavidC

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:27 | 4303696 Analyse2
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The Bush regime lied and fabricated "evidence" that was used to deceive Congress, the American people, and the United Nations. 

At the time that these absurd claims were being made, only experts knew that they were false but today everyone knows that the claims were lies.

I wonder why everyone has forgotten how much hate FRANCE got for NOT wanting to contribute in the Irak war.

The whole dumbass "LIBERTY FRIES" , the “cheese-eating surrender MONKEYS”  things   all kind of silly jokes still continuing, even in ZH …. Five years of Anti-French slander and vilification was thus thrust by the White House, the administration, members of Congress, governors and by lackeys in the media (like Fox News or Murdoch Press).

May all Americans remember what they did, and how it speaks volumes about how are treated dissent, opinion and opposition.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:56 | 4303721 Spanky
Spanky's picture

+1

For...

[I]t speaks volumes about how are treated dissent, opinion and opposition. -- Analyse2

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:17 | 4303800 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

The french made up for it by attacking the country with the highest living standards in Africa, lybia.
lybia and Iraq are now both polluted by civil war and uranium depleted amunition. Hey but the people are happy for the freedom we gave them.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:28 | 4303810 Analyse2
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There is no possible comparison: not at all the same scale, not so many deaths, and the lybian civil war had already begun before the United Nations intervention ...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 06:27 | 4303860 malikai
malikai's picture

A 'civil war' usually does not begin with foreign spies paying off traitors and mercenaries to start a fight.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:20 | 4304140 Analyse2
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Lybian Civil War

The conflict can roughly be divided into two periods before and after external military intervention authorized by United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973.

Active resistance to the government began in Benghazi on 18 February,

On 17 March, the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution to impose a no-fly zone in Libyan airspace

The initial coalition of Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Italy, Norway, Qatar, Spain, UK and US expanded to seventeen states, with newer states mostly enforcing the no-fly zone and naval blockade or providing military logistical assistance

It wasn't a French attack but an international intervention (including the US).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2011_Libyan_Civil_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Libyan_civil_war

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:44 | 4303953 lovemesomeZH
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:44 | 4303954 lovemesomeZH
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:48 | 4303955 lovemesomeZH
Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:49 | 4303156 kridkrid
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I think it had more to do with Iraqi oil being sold in dollars vs the euro, but either way, it had NOTHING to do with WMD or anything else our govt told us.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:06 | 4303208 dick cheneys ghost
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it was as much about keeping Iraqi oil OFF the market than about anything else........

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:59 | 4303350 Buckaroo Banzai
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DING DING DING we have a winner.

If the Iraq war was all about the Evil Oil Companies, then why has their ROI been so incredibly shitty on this "deal"?

Nope, it was about destabilizing secular Arab regimes in favor of Muslim extremists-- the empirical track record is quite clear as every single secular regime has been taken down in the region with the exception of Syria...which only exists thanks to Russian intervention.

Who are the Muslim fundamentalists in the region who might have an interest in restricting oil supply?

HINT: rhymes with "Gaudy Arabians".

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:11 | 4303384 Harbanger
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Obama has been charged in the International Criminal Court as an accessory to the mussie brotherhood.  Haven't heard a peep about it from the gov controlled MSM in the US.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:17 | 4303397 LetThemEatRand
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You have it backwards.  A few very large private corporations control MSM (and .gov, because MSM convinces 90+% of the population to continue voting Red and Blue, and to continue believing meaningless bullshit about Progressives and Conservatives and how the two groups should hate each other).  

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:18 | 4303408 Harbanger
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So private corporations prefer Democrats?  What are you sayin?  It''s pretty fucking obvious that the MSM is biased.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:25 | 4303415 LetThemEatRand
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You really don't get it, do you?

Private corporations prefer to continue the charade that there is a difference between the parties.  Including your buddy Rush who has more listeners than all cable news combined.  But he's the underdog, right?  Drudge receives millions of hits a day.  Rush has millions of listeners.  These are MSM, just as much as NY Times.  Open your eyes.  MSM is expert at creating a false paradigm of choice.  You are eating it up.  

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:30 | 4303436 Harbanger
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Listen Norwood 5.  Why do you assume I listen to Rush?  In fact I've just started listening to Michael Savage ( I recommend people search him and download his show).  The MSM is an abomination to the idea of a free press in the US, we've always suspected that it's controlled, but Obama's presidency solidified the fact that they will do whatever it takes (lie cheat and steal) to make democrats look good in the public eye.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:03 | 4303584 LetThemEatRand
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I'll try one more time.  The MSM engages in daily propaganda.  They put up pretty pussy and preacher hair on Fox, and ugly lezbos and glasses wearing talking heads on MSNBC.  NYTimes puts up Krugman.  Murdoch puts up Kristol.  They divide us by party, Conservative vs. Progressive, Gay vs. Straight, Duck Dynasty versus Duck Fuckers, race versus race, poor versus "rich" (meaning people who make as much in a year as the oligarchs make in a day), pro-union versus anti-union.   The oligarchs/bankers are not Progressives and they are not Conservatives.   They are about power.  It's not about money to them.  They have more than they can spend.  They are modern Royalty.  We all work for them.  We pay taxes for them, and we owe interest on our mortgages and credit cards for them.    When we open up a savings account, we give them more money to fractionally reserve.  When we buy stocks, we pay them.  When we buy bonds, we pay them.   Both parties put up candidates vetted and funded by them.   They laugh their asses off while being flown in private jets to the Hamptons and islands we never heard of that we blame each other for what's wrong.   We know something is wrong, and it's easier to blame each other than some unknown entity that most never see.   Unless and until the average guy sees that the Fed, the bankers, the oligarchs are the first and foremost problem, they will continue winning. 

Savage has his moments but he's too often caught up in the Conservative versus Progressive circle jerk in which you find yourself.

Let's all agree to band together and End the Fed, and then let's debate politics.  Guess what.  It will never happen.  So the politics debate is pissing in the wind.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:31 | 4303701 Spanky
Spanky's picture

+1

For...

The oligarchs/bankers are not Progressives and they are not Conservatives. They are about power. -- LetThemEatRand

But not this...

It's not about money to them. -- LetThemEatRand

Money (and its accumulation) is a form of power.

But we do ultimately agree... 

Unless and until the average guy sees that the Fed, the bankers, the oligarchs are the first and foremost problem, they will continue winning. ... So the politics debate is pissing in the wind. -- LetThemEatRand

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:00 | 4303732 MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Somehow to me, it doesn't seem like you're describing the Amish!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:08 | 4303745 Jugdish
Jugdish's picture

Sometimes I wanna take a piss then shit but it just sometimes doesnt work like that.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:36 | 4303950 Muppet Pimp
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Agreed on nearly every point.  This being the case, the Tea Party is the best solution.  Lower taxes, smaller government. 

If unseating the existing power structure "just because they are powerful" is your goal, my question to you is, if you are successful what do you think will fill that void?  A group of kinder gentler oligarchs? 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:21 | 4303691 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Gee, and I remember when Savage worked the liberal side of the mic (late 1980s)... Guess conservative advertisers made him a better offer. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:22 | 4303546 A Nanny Moose
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Personal attacks based on Poison Well fallacy. Try again Wesley Mouch.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:50 | 4303605 upWising
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"With the Republicans and the Democrats, it's like Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dumb.  There's not a dime's worth of difference between the two of them."

––George C. Wallace, 1968.  [Governor and "First Gentleman" of Alabama, Presidential Candidate].

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:26 | 4303425 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the whole point seems to be to keep oil speculators "liquid" if that's all we're talking about. in other words "we can't have oil prices fall! we can't have oil prices fall!" for some strange reason appears to be "the strategic goal"...which is WAY out there in left field than what the neo-cons wanted. I mean sure...you need ten million down to trade oil contracts...but you need at least a billion if you're trading in basis points. (obviously no single person can trade in basis points. probably not true with oil...but if the price really falls out of bed as with gold and silver this year you could be looking at some stupendous losses if oil and natural gas prices suddenly head South.) very "fluid" situation (literally and figuratively actually) and I'm definitely no expert on "the Middle East" which encompasses a lot of peoples and a lot of real estate. It sure looks to me like we're heading down this road at "breakneck speed" though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations very large amount of uncertainty...and from my point of view "improbability." An outright deflation as the result of the "War on Terror" would have been about .0001 percent chance in my book.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:39 | 4303707 Spanky
Spanky's picture

+1

For...

The Samuel Huntington reference (Clash of Civilizations). I remember his articles on the subject in Foreign Affairs back in the mid 1990s. Simply amazing how his predictions came to pass, with a little help from his neocon friends...

[Edit] Funny, everyone here talks about propaganda, but not too many seem to understand how it works, except to point at the MSM... unfortunately. Simply put, the MSM is merely an end product.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:05 | 4303373 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm not certain, it could be...  But one thing is for sure, the U.S. had locked down Iraqi oil back in the early 90s (Gulf War I) with sanctions and those sanctions were due to expire and they hadn't managed to assassinate Saddam or get him to blunder (again) on the international stage.

Here's some early history on oil in that region (interesting read):

http://countrystudies.us/iraq/53.htm

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:01 | 4308593 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Also, Saddam wanted to sell oil what oil was getting out for "other than USD$" (google Iraqi oil bourse). Can't have that.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:02 | 4303363 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

i dont know why that resulted in so manhy down votes, as it most definetely was not about keeping the iraqi oil off the market. I personally spent a year staring at two iraqi oil terminals, and the endless line of tankers waiting to fill up, protecting both. I even walked around on them. That oil most assuredly made it to the market, with the US govt blessing. I agree its more about what it was sold for. Iraq and libya both made the mistake of attempting to bypass the perto dollar, and look where that got them. I am by no means defending the practice, but thats how it goes.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:12 | 4303389 Seer
Seer's picture

It was about control of Iraqi oil on the open market.

The U.S. geostrategic planners KNOW that the House of Saud is on shifting sands (and also likely know the decline of Saudi oil fields) and it was essential to lock down one big pool of oil over there: Iran is the other, but the Iranians are pretty stable and Iraq was not (thanks to U.S. sanctions, which was the whole point- destablization in order to get rid of Saddam [didn't work, so war it was]).

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:32 | 4303565 StychoKiller
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"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -- Mua'd Dib

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:55 | 4303822 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

That's called taxation

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:48 | 4303771 Theosebes Goodfellow
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~"I think it had more to do with Iraqi oil being sold in dollars vs the euro, but either way, it had NOTHING to do with WMD or anything else our govt told us"~

Personally I think the reason for Iraq II was a little more banal and base. Bush 43 went after Saddam for trying to whack Bush 41. See:

https://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/oig/fbilab1/05bush2.htm

The fact that it impacted the House of Saud favorably was just icing on the cake.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:52 | 4303168 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Same for Libya. The same for the coming war on Iran. The same for the god for saken African nations the US and NATO are tearing apart. The play book is well known. Today in Iraq, a major civil war is breaking out, this will be a part of the Syrian war, as large groups of Iraqi Al-Qaeda cross into Syria to fight for the US allies of the Sunni Jihad. Also, Iraqi shia have crossed over to aid Assad's secular government in it's battle against the proxy invasion of Syria by NATO terror Army. Lebanon will be sucked in. Egypt is nearing an all out civil war, with the US backing the military. Saudi Arabia is funding every Sunni terror gang from Sothern Russia to Libya. This is one unholy fucking mess. The day George Bush invaded Iraq for no reason but that to be a war president, we have seen all hell break loose and spread like wildfire.

Israel and Saudi are playing with fire and flirting with Al-Qaeda, or should I say Israel flirts with Al-Qaeda, Saudi IS Al-Qaeda. The US plans to pivot to China and confront them, leaving their Iraq adventure as one of the most useless costly bloodbaths in modern history.

What a government we have. Dancing to their corporate masters, the arms makers and military contractors feast on our tax dollars! My son-in-law fought in the surge to win the big one for America. Now he is home and crippled, people should ask him what he thinks of liberating Iraq! Ha! Ha! He is not amused. He was played, and now he knows it. Bush was evil, Obama is evil. Why do people support their team red, or their team blue. That is useless.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:03 | 4303196 NoDebt
NoDebt's picture

Jack, it could be worse.  We could be in Syria right now, too.  

Do we have to thank Obama for being as incompetent getting a simple war in Syria off the ground as he is getting Obamacare off the ground?  Did Obama accidentally adopt the Ron Paul position on foreign policy by having NO coherent foreign policy?  

I don't like the thought that by sheer incompetence and stupidity this administration got to the right answer in dealing with the Middle East.  Yet, I find that idea not easy to dismiss.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:13 | 4303229 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Uhhh, Syria doesn't have any oil.  Kinda hard to justify to the sheeple that the US is going to war to prevent Russia from building a pipeline that would threaten Fabian Europe. 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:54 | 4303338 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Stuck between Fabian Europe and Russians.  I propose all liberty minded Europeans move to the US and we send all the Progressives (- LTER) to Europe.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:14 | 4304267 BobPaulson
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Didn't get enough troll kibbles from the last string?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:05 | 4303364 Buckaroo Banzai
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Syria was more about installing Muslim extremists in power than anything else. There are a crap-ton of Muslim Brotherhood members serving openly in the Obama administration; exactly what other agenda do you think they are there to promote?

Luckily, Obama is a pathological liar and serial incompetent. That, and Putin didn't want to miss a chance to stick it to the Muslims, whom he hates thanks to his experience with the Chechens.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:34 | 4303572 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Care to name these Brotherhood members?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:31 | 4303906 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

I'll bet I can name a lot more 13th Tribe members in Obama's admin. then he can name Muslim Brotherhood members.

William Kristol and his neoCON gang were all about Israel and it's security.

 

Iraq was invaded 'to protect Israel' - US official
By Emad Mekay

WASHINGTON - Iraq under Saddam Hussein did not pose a threat to the United States, but it did to Israel, which is one reason why Washington invaded the Arab country, according to a speech made by a member of a top-level White House intelligence group.

Inter Press Service uncovered the remarks by Philip Zelikow, who is now the executive director of the body set up to investigate the terrorist attacks on the US in September 2001 - the 9/11 commission - in which he suggests a prime motive for the invasion just over one year ago was to eliminate a threat to Israel, a staunch US ally in the Middle East.

Zelikow's casting of the attack on Iraq as one launched to protect Israel appears at odds with the public position of US President George W Bush and his administration, which has never overtly drawn the link between its war on the regime of Saddam and its concern for Israel's security.

The administration has instead insisted it launched the war to liberate the Iraqi people, destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and to protect the United States.

Zelikow made his statements about "the unstated threat" during his tenure on a highly knowledgeable and well-connected body known as the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board (PFIAB), which reports directly to the president. He served on the board between 2001 and 2003.

 

Other sources:

 

Philip Zelikow And The Iraq "Threat" That Dare Not Speak Its Name

 

20 Israel Partisans Behind Iraq War Still at Large

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:11 | 4304884 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

The irony is that Zelikow was one of the masterminds of the 9/11 attack.  And he gets appointed to 'investigate' it.  He found himself not guilty.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:07 | 4304862 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

I don't think you're right about Putin and the Religion of Peace.  He's been very accommodating to them including opening up the borders.  Been in Moscow lately?  Should call it Moscostan. Unrecognisable from even ten years ago.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:33 | 4303437 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Obama's handlers are telling him what to do.  Major smack down in Egypt for the Muslim Brotherhood.  I think Syria was a no go because of Russia.  The USA had about 8 ships and so did the Russians.  There may have been a Chinese ship there as well.

General Dempsey (head of the Joint Chiefs) went to the White Hut on a Saturday.  This was a day after Obama said they were going to attack Syria. 

My guess is the US military got a back channel from the Russian military.  Probably something like "Obama is a major douchebag.  We don't have an issue with America but if you attack Syria, you will lose 3 or 4 US Navy ships.  President Putin wanted to let you know this because we have no respect for your Obama, State Dept and intelligence agencies."

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:11 | 4303632 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I would like to see how good those 230 mph shkval torpedoes are. Notice to all 'China is stealing our military technology', the US was trying to steal Russian military technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squall_(torpedo)

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:18 | 4303692 SpiceMustFlow
SpiceMustFlow's picture

fascinating

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:03 | 4303202 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

exactly, as if Bush or Obama are anything but puppets or are any different. One sold us on getting in, the other sold us on getting out, and yet we went in, are still there, and waiting for TPTB to tell them what they should do next.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:02 | 4303356 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Yeah, they are 2 flavors of the same statist icecream.  But Obama had you going for a while with his promises, tell the truff.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:36 | 4303284 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Cue me in when we march on Logos. We haven't even gotten started yet.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:35 | 4303285 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

double post

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:37 | 4303286 Musashi Miyamoto
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bad internet connection

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:47 | 4303310 nmewn
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ROTFL!!!...buy a few ZeroCoins & upgrade ;-)

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:35 | 4303444 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

maybe that's what the war is all about. "bitcoins." we've struck it rich with non-existent money! i mean if that doesn't say "default risk" i don't know what does.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:24 | 4303553 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I had that earlier today. The new antibiotic courtesy of 0'Bamabotcare took care of it.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:19 | 4303405 Seer
Seer's picture

Only thing I'm not lock-step with you on is that there's any big plan to circle China.  It's always been and always will be about circling Russia.  China is nothing but a huge over-leveraged paper-tiger which will fall all on its own.

Stay focused on Russia and Iran.  The ultimate goals are always resources, and that's where they are... (U.S. wasn't able to up-end Iran [the regime is far too stable] so it's now got to resort to being dliplomatic)

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:34 | 4303449 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

define "it."

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:57 | 4303726 Spanky
Spanky's picture

The plan is control of the Eurasian landmass. Cannot control the world unless you control Eurasia. Just ask Zbig...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:31 | 4303426 casfoto
casfoto's picture

Yes. It seems futile. They treat the Demos and the Repubs as if they are different parties and that voting makes a difference. It makes absolutely no difference. The country has been bought and paid for using the peoples money. Israel, with AIPAC, use our tax dollars to gain control of the Senate and Congress and they vote lock step with those jerks. The Trans Pacific Partnership is being put to bed...before the Senate and or Congress can study the deal. It is already been written by the heads of the American Monster Corps.  The whole thing stinks on ice.

I remember well the Vietnam war....my best friend died over there within 6 months of being there. It was just a sham... a ridiculous money making sham. Our men died for it just like they did in Iraq. For what? Defending the Father Land? No, to make it safe for the leaders to make more and more money. In the above statement by Perle on the question was not a fair question....he should be in jail along with Wolfowitz and Pearl and the rest of those fools. They use our money and men for their gains.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:41 | 4303458 20834A
20834A's picture

This has a name-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_democracy

aka Totalitarian Democracy

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:03 | 4303733 Spanky
Spanky's picture

We used to call those guys "chickenhawks" (Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Rumsfeld, etc.) for all the obvious reasons...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:15 | 4303840 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

They like to hold your coat when you fight........your list is short though, what about Clinton, Bush, Karl Rove, Richard Perle, Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Ari Fleischer, Ken Adelman, Andrew Card, Scotter Libby, John Bolton, William Kristol,

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:07 | 4303894 Spanky
Spanky's picture

Actually, I was thinking about the CFR membership roll with the "etc"...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:20 | 4304913 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

All of the chicken hawks you mention - apart from one - have something else in commn: Dual citizenship. 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:29 | 4303427 casfoto
casfoto's picture

Yes. It seems futile. They treat the Demos and the Repubs as if they are different parties and that voting makes a difference. It makes absolutely no difference. The country has been bought and paid for using the peoples money. Israel, with AIPAC, use our tax dollars to gain control of the Senate and Congress and they vote lock step with those jerks. The Trans Pacific Partnership is being put to bed...before the Senate and or Congress can study the deal. It is already been written by the heads of the American Monster Corps.  The whole thing stinks on ice.

I remember well the Vietnam war....my best friend died over there within 6 months of being there. It was just a sham... a ridiculous money making sham. Our men died for it just like they did in Iraq. For what? Defending the Father Land? No, to make it safe for the leaders to make more and more money. In the above statement by Feith on the question was not a fair question....he should be in jail along with Wolfowitz and Pearl and the rest of those fools. They use our money and men for their gains.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:41 | 4303457 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

"Al Qaeda" will be active in Iraq with special ferocity until Iraq fully fractures into 3 states.

Which is part of the plan, and something long desired by Britain, the US and Israel.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:19 | 4303244 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Taxes and debts were higher after the American Revolution then before. 7 years of war and a economy ruined for at least 10 more.
Indian wars.
Mexican wars
That Civil War.
Spanish American wars and Philippine suppression.
WW I unfinished and the failed League.
WWII, cleaning up WWI and leaving Europe half enslaved.
Who lost China?
Korea still at war and a Lovecraft horror state.
Vietnam and abandonment and the Killing Fields.
...
anyway same old same old.
Batter Up! Next!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:19 | 4303534 Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

Teddy said. "The bravest man I ever knew followed me up San Juan Hill."

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:25 | 4303694 SpiceMustFlow
SpiceMustFlow's picture

what a g

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:40 | 4303293 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Fac et excusa

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:51 | 4303319 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Hi Rand, Happy New Year.  Do you wait to make the 1st comment on a thread for effect or are you feelin lonely and wishin for upvotes?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:38 | 4303451 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

The right wing, Likudnik Jewish neocons who fabricated evidence while installed in the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans didn't do it for oil - they did it for Israel.

 

Only self-satisfied shitheads think Iraq was solely or even primarily about helping to enrich oil corporations. Different actors have different motivations.

 

Beware anyone who tells you that there's a single reason for the Empire going to war.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:55 | 4303478 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

You my friend, have no fucking idea what the right wing is.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:29 | 4303653 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

I'm not your friend, fuckwad, and I'm trying to gather if there's a single topic on which you have even basic knowledge.

You certainly don't seem to have any understanding of the history of the neoconservative movement, or its necessary if not sufficient role in getting us into Iraq.

Where did you come across what you try to pass off as knowledge?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:48 | 4303669 LetThemEatRand
Tue, 01/07/2014 - 02:39 | 4307147 Dull Care
Dull Care's picture

If you know the history of the neocons they were Trotskyists, the most radical communists. They basically hijacked the real conservatives, the Old Right and replaced it with the Buckleys and Kristols of the world.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:20 | 4303532 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Corporatism is often about reducing competition. Opening oil fields might have increased competition there, James Taggart.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:20 | 4303642 vaft
vaft's picture

I don't see how there can be debate or misunderstanding about why we invaded Iraq when the entire cabal of those responsible for the invasion spelled out their reasonings in black and white back in 1996 when they wrote the "Clean Break" policy for Benjamin Netanyahu. You may be able to argue that the control of oil was a secondary goal, but the zionist agenda was, and still is, the top priority in US foreign policy --do not take my word on this-- get it straight from the chief architects of the war themselves: http://www.iasps.org/strat1.htm

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:11 | 4303687 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Respectfully, with folks like mr.perle and mr.kristol involved, there is probably more to it than just earl.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:05 | 4304848 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

But also due to Saddam phasing out the petrodollar.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:39 | 4303129 dexter_morgan
dexter_morgan's picture

Wait....What? I thought Obama said we were out of Iraq?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:53 | 4303170 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Or Afghanistan. Maybe. Anyway, Mission Accomplished!

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:45 | 4303307 nmewn
nmewn's picture

And closed Gitmo too!...by Executive Order no less!...cuz, like he can!...cuz like, he's King O'Barry or sumpin!!!

And he fixed the doctor/patient/payee thingy by sticking half-wits on Medicare...and brought race relations to the next level  of kumbaya with Saint Trayvon...and halved the federal deficit just like he promised...and the sea levels are receding King Cu-Nut like...brought peace to the ME, natch...pumped back up the Wall Street banker class machine...signed off on still more NSA spying...and incredibly enough, managed to get in moar golf and frequent flier miles per first family to Africa & Hawaii than any other prezbo in history!

I honestly don't know how he fits it all in ;-)

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:43 | 4303133 Ban KKiller
Ban KKiller's picture

Thank you, war profiteers! Bush family of criminals love WAR. 

Doubleplus good! Spent uranium? 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:17 | 4303239 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Seems the Obama family of criminals love war too since we're still mired in Afghanistan with a record number of troops dead - more under Obama than Bush - as well as drone attacks in half a dozen MENA countries and involvement in Libya, Egypt, and attempted full-blown war in Syria.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:22 | 4303411 Seer
Seer's picture

Um, they don't call him Bandar Bush for nothing...  Check out the prince's latest fun and games in Russia.

I suppose that when they start referring Bandar as Bandar Obama then we can say that Obama has arrived...

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:41 | 4303135 20834A
20834A's picture

Will we see a Pol Pot/Cambodian style massacre after we leave? Bet on it.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:41 | 4303139 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Amen.

Perhaps the American people have caught on to the farce and lies out of Washington.

If Congress wants war, let them send their children and grandchildren and themselves to the lead the infantry.

Let them die for the bankers that are padding their pockets through campaign donations.

In the end, the people need to know all wars are bankers wars...with Congress complicit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfEBupAeo4

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:22 | 4303416 Seer
Seer's picture

"Perhaps the American people have caught on to the farce and lies out of Washington."

You need to take a few more laps around the block...

Just the other day I saw a newer multi-seater van (to shuffle around children of the clans) with a shiny new sticker that read "I Stand By Israel."  Of course, those fucking atheists plaster that kind of shit on everything... </sarc>

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:50 | 4303142 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

They (Neocons) were the ones pushing for an attack on Syria this summer. Thankfully they were not successful.

No US media would publish Hersh's groundbreaking story that Obama lied to try to start a war with Syria.  His story was published in the London Review of Books. After publication in the UK, no major US media reported it.

US media blacks out Seymour Hersh exposé of Washington’s lies on sarin attack in Syria

The American media has blacked out an account by Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative journalist Seymour Hersh demonstrating that President Barack Obama and the US government lied when they claimed to have proof that the Syrian government carried out a sarin gas attack last August on areas near Damascus held by US-backed “rebels.”

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/12/11/hers-d11.html

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n24/seymour-m-hersh/whose-sarin

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:34 | 4303657 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

Good point, and again, while the Saudis and Qataris have their own reasons for wanting to destroy Syria, they are not the same reasons the "neocons" have - and the myriad neocon groups reasons are basically dominant in terms of the media presentation of what's happening over there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:46 | 4303147 Whatta
Whatta's picture

Mishun Accomplisht!

Thank God for drones. Now we can liberate them from the comfy of our couch here, and dine on a Big Mac after killing some brown skinned kid.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:43 | 4303148 espirit
espirit's picture

How long will it take for citizens to realize Rome is burning?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:54 | 4303172 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Not until they see their asses are on fire, and maybe even after that.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:19 | 4303246 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

Their jobs are vanishing, cities running out of money, economy tanking, healthcare in flames, and still they find excuses to remove Barry and the Socialists from blame.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:18 | 4303533 Blues Traveler
Blues Traveler's picture

Unless a miracle happens, they will not, as the situation heats up the people will start to "cannibalize" their beliefs, friends, integrity to maintain while taking selfies

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:49 | 4303158 OwnSilverPlayMusic
OwnSilverPlayMusic's picture

Hillary 2016! How's that for 'progressive'?   Those who don't learn from history...deserve exactly what is coming to them. 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:52 | 4303176 OwnSilverPlayMusic
OwnSilverPlayMusic's picture

HA! who the hell junked me?  I'd rather chop of my balls than vote for that cunt.  Thought I was on ZH not Huffpo

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:26 | 4303256 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Her campaign slogan is going to be "What difference does it make?" Pretty hard to argue with that......

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:45 | 4303314 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

YELLEN will be hailed 'year of the woman' by MSM

When HILLARY2016BITCH is elected they'll call it the DECADE of the woman,

All the while the REAL secret government that runs the show (NSA/CIA), will carry on and do what they do. Not giving a rats ass about who controls the civilian government.

***

Watch the MIL-GOV, and FUCK the CIV-GOV.

The MIL-GOV is REAL, the CIV-GOV is make believe,

A good analogy is USA party politics is BITCOIN, and the US-MIL-GOV is physical GOLD.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:27 | 4303430 Seer
Seer's picture

Not sure Hillary would get in, though if she can make better behind-the-scene promises to the warmongers then she'll get the nod.  McNasty would beat her out in this department, but he's just way too unstable, and, routing all funding to the military might tend to cause some problems...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:33 | 4303570 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

There is that NARRATIVE again "FUNDING", the US-MIL is self funding, they just like the FED, can ROLL THEIR OWN USD's, ...

CHINA under MAO did this in 1947, setup the PRC to be self-funding, and now the US-MIL(NSA/CIA) is self funding,

This why ALEXANDER can tell Vermon Senator "Go fuck yourself PERSON"

A person in US-MIL parlance is a PERP, for everyone is the enemy until proven otherwise,

'SEER' go ahead keep thinking that HILLARY can defund the US-MIL, but never forget they don't give a fuck who the elected CIVILIAN REP is, as the US-MIL is exempt from CIVILIAN-LAW.

***

Funny the SECRET-NSA/CIA GUBMINT was setup in 1948, and MAO setup his not-secret MIL-GOV in 1947, ... funny that just about everybody had the same POST-NAZI government for New World Order.

Now the Russia, CHINA, and USA all agree that the USA can run the SDR through the IMF, ... its going to be a happy family.

There is a reason that every elected politician in the USA is a dick-head, cuz they're just there for entertainment.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:51 | 4304062 Reader1
Reader1's picture

You don't seem to have too clear a grasp on reality.

The military doesn't generally speak about "perps."  That's cop talk.  "Person" is a gender-free term for discussing an unidentified human being.  And the military IS subservient to the civilian public, which explains why a congressman can demand answers when someone complains their kid was yelled at in training and get the basic training instructor's career destroyed.  Or why civilians can complain to their congressmen when soldiers get out of hand on a long weekend, leading to a congressional investigation and lots of soldiers in trouble for their shenanigans.  Or why a cop can pull over a soldier and give him a ticket.  Plus, soldiers are not exempt from US Law, but the military reserves the right to try and punish soldiers who commit crimes in their own courts.  All soldiers are under military law, so they can be punished for any infraction, even if it was years prior.  If you killed someone in the military, retired, and 5 years later they got the proof, you can be recalled, put in uniform, tried in military court, and tossed in Leavenworth.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:39 | 4304194 DOT
DOT's picture

Spot on about the UCMJ.

btw, just as money is speech,insurance is tax, corporations are persons in the eyes of the PTB

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:50 | 4303162 stock trout
stock trout's picture

What Iraq needs is a strong man dictator to kick Al-qaeda's ass and establish stability to the nation, someone like Sadd...oh never mind. 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:39 | 4303291 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

We had him hanged as an example for refusing the Clownbuck. We had Gadafi shot in the face in public for rejecting the Clownbuck. Both captured on film of course to intimidate the rest of the world and so there would be no question they are dealing with violent phychopaths and they should never say no...but yeah. They hate us cause we're free.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:32 | 4303435 Seer
Seer's picture

In God We Trust (so it says on the clownbucks- now then, who the fuck got this printed on them? [nary a mention in the Constitution yet only after a long time did it get added to the clownbuck])

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:38 | 4303581 Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

A good thing to do is redact 'In God We Trust' with a marker pen.

The Constitution, (see 10th Admn) provides by implication that only an autonomous person has the power and competence to make a leap of faith to recognize a god.

People should start a revolution over this usurpation of power by the government. imo.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:42 | 4303586 Blues Traveler
Blues Traveler's picture

Words without wisdom...A blind seer.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:51 | 4303164 Oldwood
Oldwood's picture

Bad choices compounded by even worse ones. I wonder how any Americans give a shit about any deaths, our soldiers or the "enemy", if they were running short of heating oil this weekend. Everyone rationalizes their interests as justifiable and everyone else's as not. We keep electing people to "protect us" and trust me, they will do so if it kills every damn one of us.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:18 | 4303241 forwardho
forwardho's picture

Generally speaking, with a few good exceptions, a human is an unlovely creature.

Prone to selfishness from birth, its amazing we ever left the trees.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:27 | 4303258 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Go to Africa or Asia, or any where primates are in the wild.

They basically have 3 activity's

1.) steal

2.) fuck anything, male or female, e.g. the males will fuck anything they can find, any orifice, any object, ... oh and they're always masturbating

3.) kill,

4.) lastly, there is a sort of kindness for the elderly, which I see in asia, but fail to see in the west

***

The worst I ever saw was the Bamboons living in Africa, huge fucking packs (100's and 100's moving mass and devestating all in their path ) and they have teeth like +4" long, like our incisors, rape&pillage is the primate, and there is no doubt that MAN evolved from the Baboon.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:44 | 4304207 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

You may have evolved from a baboon, but not me.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:52 | 4305044 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Oh, only when I got to the end did I realize you were talking about the animals there.......

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:34 | 4303438 Seer
Seer's picture

Well, we've managed to exceed 7 billion, so somehow we've managed to be somewhat successful (in spite of ourselves?).

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 21:52 | 4303178 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

The Nikkei is getting its ass handed to it tonight.  Abe better get the next stimulus together.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:11 | 4303225 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

What do you think about the JPY & AUD?

The INR & ZAR have taken quite a hit over 1+ year, both down more than 50%.

***

Why do you think the Nikkei is down over 2% this AM? ( I'm in asia

***

I think the major USD competition is getting knocked down, and they want USD to be the 'safe haven' rather than PHYS-GOLD.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:35 | 4303277 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I am no dollar bull but it looks like for the short term the dollar is going to see investment.  I think this largely has to do with stocks being sold and no one wanting bonds still.  The Yen is seeing the same pattern.

Since gold is so oversold it is also going to see investment short term.  I think it goes to $1300 in the next 30 days, this in the face of falling stocks, which should be telling as to what the real long term trends still are.

I think that the next liquidation phase will move into bonds, we should get back to 2.5% on the 10y.

DXY could move back to 82.5 - I don't think it will lead this lap.  The AUD could go to parity.  The USD/JPY pair could pull back to 100.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:41 | 4303302 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

So you don't see the AUD & JPY, doing what the INR & ZAR have done??

***

I agree with what your saying, I was hoping for a some new insight, living in Asia I know what I see, but I have no idea for the real reason the INR and ZAR have collapsed.

Sadly, with so much uncertainty the world still finds safety in the USD,

For many years I hoped the USD would collapse, and that would KILL the police-state, long ago I dropped that paradigm, understanding that the US-MIL will kill every last human being on EARTH to protect USD Reserve status. Given that NOBODY on earth wants reserve, ... uncle-nazi-sam is going to be KING for a long fucking time, well until the SDR is the new USD, but given the SDR will be backed by US-MIL, That is NOT change.

***

Today there are two things,

1.) Investment

2.) Living

***

Investment has always been in real estate, where well I see LAOS and MYANMAR going astro, ... GOLD is just insurance, so for everybody in ASIA. 10-20 TAEL per family, not much but enough to start life anew if you have to make a run.

Living? Anywhere other than the USA. It's no longer possible to live in the USA, unless you like assholes fucking you in the ass.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:48 | 4303473 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I'm doing a decent job living in the US without too many people trying to fuck me in the ass, but I agree, it is an ass fucking fest over here.

I don't see any other big name currencies nose diving in the next few months, and it happened to India because they don't have the international pull the others do.  When China is about to collapse it will affect the bond market dramatically, but that is still a few months out.

As for the US MIC, like I wrote last night, they won't be running their ships and tanks easily once foreign oil's price goes past $150, which it will the same time China bows out of the UST auctions.

America does not have the domestic oil to fuel its MIC.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:19 | 4303531 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

While I agree the BOND market will go south, its more likely just for normal reasons, e.g. interest rate historical cycles.

**

I don't see CHINA 'collapsing' everything I see here is still booming, people here in my time I have seen go from bicycle to motorcycle and now to car, and only <2% have cars, in the history a consumer demand cycle asia is 1880's USA.

The USA is fucked the CONSUMER is filled to the GILL

Explain why you think the CNY will go south? I don't see it, unless your talking about the chinese stock market, ... but that is a casino,  so fuck yes like the USA, but IHMO so what, ... a lot like BTC, so fucking what, sheep get sheered all the time in the real world.

***

On OIL I see differently, the US-MIL is the worlds largest consumer, but they also control the worlds COAL,OIL,and NUKE. The US-MIL has contingency plans in place to not lose their mobility and range.

Also WHO gives a FUCK about $150, the US-MIL can print all the USD's it wants, the NSA/CIA is the MIL-GOV, and the CIVILIAN-GOVERMENT may go to hell, but the US-MIL GOV will continue, to care for its own. Anyone in the world that doesn't sell their OIL for worthless USD and/or SDR's will die, for the next 200+ years, will that is how they have it planned, adn you can search this shit on the internet, "US MIL STRATEGIC PLANNING 100+ years"

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:46 | 4304206 DOT
DOT's picture

100 year "plan" = bull shit + hubris.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:32 | 4308692 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Actually, America DOES have the domestic oil to fuel its MIC, provided it gives priority to the MIC (at the expense of consumers/'non-essential' business. In short, under martial law. 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:44 | 4303303 rubiconsolutions
rubiconsolutions's picture

Shiniest, bitchinist turd in the punchbowl. The USD that is.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:07 | 4303206 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

You can put a man into bondage but you can't put bondage into the man. The Arabs are a proud people who would rather die than become vassals of the west. NATO will continue to fail in their attempt to "civilize" the region, who by the way are fundamentally opposed to Fractional Reserve Banking.

Usury (Riba) - http://www.islamic-finance.com/item5_f.htm

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:19 | 4303245 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Don't worry once all the OIL is extracted we will be gone.

***

The good news is that Arab's/Persian's have memory, they never forget, 1,000's of years a grudge will be held.

Bad news is that West (USA-MAN) has a memory of day's, ...

Portable OIL is/was the greatest war-prize in HUMAN-HISTORY, what will be next? Most likely potable water.

***

Almost always when I meet Muslim men and have a chat, they're cordial, non-drinking, family men, with a sincere smile, and warm human beings.

For the west to have radicalized these people for generations is like opening a pandoras box from hell.

Of course the wests only solution is to exterminate every last muslim on the planet, because at this point there are so many pissed off muslim, that the west will never be able to sleep at night forever.

***

I think the only reason USA/ISRAEL hates IRAN is that IRAN is POWER, and probably the only base for these people, sort of a beacon of hope in a world of shit made by NSA/CIA (BIG-OIL) power PetroDollarGenocide.

 

 

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:09 | 4303387 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The Muslim religion has so completely fucked over the Arab people that the entire middle east is now a giant shit-filled toilet. And every time we go over there, we are surprised that we come back with shit all over our shoes.

That's pretty much everything you need to know right there.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:46 | 4303462 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Rivers, ponds, lakes and streams - they all have different names, but they all contain water. Just as religions do - they all contain truths.
Muhammad Ali

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:08 | 4303517 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Every where here in Asia are Muslim familys.

Even my neighbors are muslim.

They all have this in common, they don't drink, they don't smoke, they don't wear jewelry(the men),

They're kind, and they love their children, the wives are almost always beautiful,

***

So far only a small minority of muslim have been radicalized, but eventually when the WEST thinks this game is over, I think that is when the vast MAJORITY of muslim will seek revenge.

Now its just a game of waiting, just like Sun Tzu said "pick your battles".

***

The only angry MUSLIM men I have ever met in travelling the world is those that have been HARD-FUCKED by the west.

Case in point in the IRAQ it was common when US servicemen where clearing homes, to crush the testicals of the male children, until the US-MIL gets the info they want, as to a MUSLIM man his family is the most important thing ever, his children.
Nope folks you can't play ostriche and you can talk shit, but the world will seek its revenge on you.

banzai, don't take anything pesonal in what I write, what you wrote was cruel, but this is your toy and you are a tyler(god), ... but what I write it truth, but I know all too well that ZH doesn't tolerate the truth.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:52 | 4304220 DOT
DOT's picture

Common?

You profess to write the truth, yet you lie instead:

"Case in point in the IRAQ it was common when US servicemen where clearing homes, to crush the testicals of the male children,..."

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:03 | 4305066 Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

'They all have this in common, they don't drink, they don't smoke, they don't wear jewelry(the men),  They're kind, and they love their children, the wives are almost always beautiful,'

What are you smoking?   Here, check this.  http://irishsavant.blogspot.ie/2007/09/islam-and-decadent-west.html

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:23 | 4303549 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Let's all agree that all religion have mind-fucked people.

That said, I would rather have Muslim nieghbors any day over 'christian neighbors'.

Islam really is a religion, of hard work, of peae, of family, and of love for parents. For hard work.

When I tell Muslims that Christians are told "If you love baby Jeebus you get rich", they don't believe it, but I have heard it all too many times.

No comparision, Islam is a way to civilize people and that why there are more than a billion muslim, cuz it works,

But Christianity is a marketing product, its a 'racket' to quote Smedly Buter

**

Two religions I respect MORONISM and ISLAM, both for the same reason, they believe in a strong male, and support POLYGAMY :)

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 06:24 | 4303879 Colonel
Colonel's picture

"Moronism" Lol yes, there are lots of those adherents in the West.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:00 | 4303680 Johnny Cocknballs
Johnny Cocknballs's picture

The entire middle east was stable and prosperous for hundreds of years under the Ottomans.  The hundreds of millions of Muslims in, for example, Indonesia and Malaysia, are nothing like the Wahhabis/Salafists that the MSM media has successfully convinced people like you are necessarily representative of Islam.

This doesn't exonerate the extremist worldview of the ME jihadists, but it's a tiny, tiny fraction of the world's Muslims, and it was Britain and France that fucked up the M.E. after WW1, not them.

History would have been vastly different, and almost certainly less violent if the Ottoman Empire hadn't been dismembered.

 

And yeah, there's a lot of hate and violence in the Koran - but no more than the Old Testament.  Basically good people will politely ignore the more embarrassing passages in their "holy" books.  Basically violent people will find a way to use those passages to justify the violence they wanted to engage in anyway.

The New Testament, while still batshit crazy, at least seems to argue for the merits of peace and forgiveness. 

 

That didn't stop the Church for burning people to death merely for translating the Bible into the local vernaculars.  What's in the books can be used selectively to engage in the fuckery one wants to engage in anyway.

 

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:06 | 4303209 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

Ralph Nader ripped GW-BUSH last week about this, ... why not post Nader's open letter, its far more rigorous that Paul's op-ed.

 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:46 | 4303309 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Because Ralph Nader has never been elected to anything.

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