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You Have The Right To Stay Out Of Jail (Or How To Handle A Police Encounter)

Tyler Durden's picture


Simply put, you have the right to remain out of prison... even if you are not a US citizen...



Know Your Rights



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Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:27 | 4303266 Portuguese Revo...
Portuguese Revolutionary's picture

Pretty soon this too shall become obsolete (like privacy)...

It's all going the way of the Dodo.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:30 | 4303559 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Are you conducting an investigation, Ocifer?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:05 | 4303618 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

just remember, most cops are loading hollow points.  so get behind something and make sure you have some fmj with enough velocity to get through the vest

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:21 | 4303645 quintago
quintago's picture

Everybody needs to watch this:



Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:47 | 4303665 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

whatever you say college boy.  try this instead faggot

learn from their mistakes

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:04 | 4303738 starfcker
starfcker's picture

i've always found in traffic stops a completely non-confrontational attitude is a big help. all this talk about rights and such from the get, why take a minor situation and escalate it over nothing? most of these guys are just doing a job, and if you are polite and respectful, you are on your way in no time. best possible outcome. the problem with lawyers giving you advice to be a total wad is that if you follow their advice and blow up a traffic stop, you might end up needing a lawyer. worst possible outcome. be cool. be smart.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:25 | 4303808 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture

Be cool?  Be smart? lol... fuck that.  Be Audi. 

Why even deal with a society like that?  First of all none of that (above) is going to work.  Even if they are wrong, by the time it's over you've gone through so much you don't have the time nor energy to seek redress.  What if they do cuff you and stuff you, put the bracelets on too tight, smack your dome against the top of the door as they're shoving you into the back of the ride, then leave you in there for 2 hours w/o A/C while they call in and check your record?  Who you gonna call... Johnny Cochran?

Fuck that.  Audi 5000.  I get stopped once every 2-3 months.  Pull out the $3 (equivalent) and bargain from there.  Sometimes they hit me for $6.  If I ever get my lisence renewed they wouldn't even get that but who has 45 min. to go to the DMV equivalent.  (yeah, it's quick. And cheap).

You get stopped for busted tail light in the US or say 26 in a 25mph speed trap in Ohio, that very well could be your last day on earth. Better have that chart above with you and learn it by heart!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:03 | 4303833 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture

btw, "Audi" means get out of dodge. Emigrate.

Inner city lingo.  As in, Adios Amigos. .  circa 1970s.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:03 | 4303893 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Of course having full diplomatic immunity doesn't hurt either, but you have to show up at court with a top hat though.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:35 | 4303901 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



You want your rights?


What do you have to hide?


Everybody needs to watch

I have.....and he's should.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:15 | 4304262 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

Here's another possible route to reign in this usurpation of the Constitutional Republic many of us remember.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:15 | 4304836 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

The consequences of "refusing" the BAC machine varies from state to state. So do other aspects of DUI law which, by far, is the most political and complicated area of criminal law. Many states add or change DUI law on nearly a yearly basis. Most of the trend is an increase in punishment and fines.

About forty five years ago, many states implemented some form of "implied consent" law which indicated that every driver "gave" the government their consent to measure some form of alcohol level, usually by breath. Although most states originally limited the punishment to revoking a drivers license, over time, many states have removed that "statutory right" to refuse. Many states have also added additional criminial punishment for refusing the test including additional jail and fines.

Both the field sobriety (roadside) tests and the BAC machine have a tremendous amount of "scientific" flaws. In fact the actual scientific community finds a great deal of problems with both. I have deal a decade on each side of the law on this charge. The blood test is by far, when done correctly, the most accurate. The filed test carry very little scientific basis and have absolutely very little objectivity by each individual officer running the tests. Upper courts and caselaw have admitted this but then, contrary to most legal principles, have upheld these procedures for no other reason than the fact that the police have been using them for decades.

More than any other crime, DUI law, in mostat states, is the exception to the rule - where an officer can have your roadside for a long time before it is considered literally "an arrest." Any other circumstances or criminal investigation would likely be ruled an arrest.     

DUI, like camera tickets, is also becoming the new tax. It is one of the few crimes (at the lower readings) where many many citizens have commited and you do not need a criminial "mens rea" or criminal intent. The fines have increased dramatically in the last five years. The government knows, that like speeding, no matter how low the alcohol level goes, this is where they can make the money. The problem is, at least in my state, the minimum punishment for DUI, is so out of character with the rest of misdemenaor crime, that it carries very little risk to go to trial because, the negotiation offer is no better than what woulb be imposed post trial. No other crime works like that for obvious reasons. 95% of cases resolve by plea bargain or motions but DUI remains an exception.    


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:14 | 4305114 NeoLuddite
NeoLuddite's picture

Truth be known the criminal law community applauds every draconian law - for them it's a license for windfall profits. Baptists and bootleggers as it were. (Bruce Yandel)

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:01 | 4305254 Keyser
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:58 | 4305464 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

Ain't nobody got time for that! Fucking scum.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 01:00 | 4306966 NickVegas
NickVegas's picture

Makes you wonder sometime, about who is wagging the tail. Draconian is a code word for fear. On a tangent, don't seizure laws effectively privatize the police department? "You keep what you kill" Riddick

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:05 | 4304243 SheepHerder
SheepHerder's picture

Thanks!  I live in Denver and when I was reading this article I thought about how you'd have to be a fucking idiot to question the cops nowadays.  They regularly beat the shit out of people.


This article is stupid.  Don't ever talk back to the cops.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:53 | 4304586 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture



They regularly beat the shit out of people.

Yep, that's exactly what they want you to think...

As they rest their hand on their billyclub as they question you.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:00 | 4305258 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Any encounter with the police is one sided. They are looking for a reason to arrest you. You DO NOT have to answer any of their questions. Anything you say will be used against you, so say nothing. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:03 | 4303925 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

I agree. That has been my experience. However, if you get stopped by a douche bag cop with a big ego and a bad attitude it is good to know where the lines are drawn. Proceed accordingly.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:38 | 4304352 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Since I stopped driving hot-rodded muscle cars, and switched to a more "respectable" rides - I've basically stopped getting pulled over.  Of course aging a bit probably has something to do with it too.  I think I've been pulled over once in the past 10 years.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:17 | 4304437 STP
STP's picture

So they finally got you to submit and now you drive something that 'they' approve of.   I find it rather sad.  Personally, I've never been pulled over in my ride, but your results may vary.  I wouldn't give it up either as the experience is far too precious for me.  Call me defiant, as my early 70's four speed Corvette, is loud, rude and fast and I like it that way.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 01:36 | 4307030 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

What's funny is that I never got pulled over driving my '70 911S - and I used to drive that thing like a complete asshole.  The one that used to get me nailed all the time was my jacked-up, flat black, '68 Dodge Coronet w/bumble-bee stripe.  That was more of a cop magnet than even my 4spd '69 GTO.

Honestly, I don't look at driving boring cars now as giving-in to pressure - When I got rid of those cars (and all the others) I got an airplane - which was great fun for a while.  Right now I'm working on building a Cummins-powered '89 Suburban w/one ton axles - so I still have a bit of the fever fwiw.     

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:51 | 4304771 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

The "just doing their job" excuse is what made alot of the police state tactics ok in the eyes of John Q. Publicfuckingretard.

I jump the shark on anyone that says that shit to me. Fuck their job. It's a waste. Cops are there to protect the staus quo at times of political distress. This traffic stop/investigation bullshit is all a distration to make them seem necessary in the eys of the public they are there to crush.

Just look at all the guys "just doing their job" in Ukraine.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:03 | 4305263 Keyser
Keyser's picture

Their job used to be to "Serve and Protect". Today, that role has changed to "Harrass, Intemidate and Murder at will". I chaulk it up to the ex-military bad-asses that join the force after active duty. These idiots still think they have free reign to do whatever they want. After all, that's how they handled themselves in theater. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:09 | 4305291 Crash Overide
Crash Overide's picture

UCC 1-207 / 1-308

Without Prejudice UCC 1.207

When you use “without prejudice UCC 1-207? in connection with your signature, you are saying, “I reserve my right not to be compelled to perform under any contract or commercial agreement that I did not enter knowingly, voluntarily and intentionally. I do not accept the liability of the compelled benefit of any unrevealed contract or commercial agreement.”


Some people put:

"UCC 1-308 Reservation of rights without prejudice"

under the signature line of their driver's license...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:33 | 4303812 A Nanny Moose
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:10 | 4303837 migra
migra's picture

You are a scumbag.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:50 | 4303902 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



So is the guy that bought all hollow-points for the DHS.....and thinks killing all the white people would be a cool thing.


It has yet to be reported on MSNBC....but I'm sure they'll get around to it eventually.


Would you like a link to that? Sure thing....I've got lots of them.;_ylt=ArpTUAIA80vWoQUDAVq4RwWbvZx4?fr=yfp-t-900-s&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&p=dhs%20ammo%20buyer%20want%20to%20kill%20white%20people

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 06:15 | 4303876 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Dear SmackDaddy:    You're a fucking idiot and should not have any firearms with an attitude like that.

And if you ever even draw a weapon on a police officer, you will be shot  by a much better trained shooter than you'll ever be which will probably kill you.

And if not, there will be dozens more officers with  impenetrable body armor hunting you down for the kill.

In your case, I hope the NSA really is tracking you down now to prevent the loss of a LEO by a scum like you!


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:09 | 4303624 KickIce
KickIce's picture

No, they'll just consider being a ZH reader an anti-government activity that will in turn give them probable cause and/or give them the means to label you a terrorist.  The above only applies to simple stuff, but anything that can be perceived as anti government you're pretty much screwed because of the Patriot Act.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:23 | 4303845 Miles Ahead
Miles Ahead's picture
?LA Sheriff’s Department misconduct includes rape, drug smuggling, kidnapping - report.

Officer, are you raping me?  Do you have probable cause?

Are you kidnapping me for ransom or for other reasons sir? Am I free to leave now?

Have a nice day sir.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 06:29 | 4303880 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

Fuck I love living in Argentina...

all you need is a black car not to be pulled over where I live. IT is la SIDE's home base. Some candle shop owner ran into the woods once when he saw me arriving in my black jetty.

In the last 25 years in South America I must of been pulled over 20 times.
most very routine under a minute.other examples..
..i paid a few bucks for red lights.
...had to open my trunk since funny smoke hit him in the face.
...was pulled out semi-unconscious by cop after hitting tree on New Year's Eve. 3 empty champagne bottles at my feet . A cooler with 5 more in the trunk. Marihuana , acid , and alcohol in my blood. The insurance paid for the TOTAL of my red renault 19 called diablo in 8 days.....I'm thinking , this country rocks, I would be getting fucked in the ass in the good old USA.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 06:35 | 4303882 samcontrol
samcontrol's picture

oh ... and I never ever got a ticket in South America.

My fastest speed 275 kph on the chipped jettA ( bora here).

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 06:47 | 4303884 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Good. Stay there!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:08 | 4303895 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Good, I hear you are getting ready to move there.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:31 | 4304711 Exponere Mendaces
Exponere Mendaces's picture

They forgot:

"Are you wealthy and/or well-connected? Then tell the police to fuck off and call your lawyer on retainer from your private car."

There are two sets of laws, one for the "little people" and one for the rich scumbags.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:32 | 4303280 lewy14
lewy14's picture

even if you are not a US citizen...

And by "even" we mean "especially".

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:42 | 4303932 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

can't say that I understand your emphasis. note that if the police would have the right to discern the citizen status on sight, this would amount to the citizen and foreigner's duty to carry an ID - as we have on continental europe

before someone misunderstands, yes, a (let's say Spanish) police officer here has the right to ask for identification and write it down. after that, the "rules of engagement" are pretty the same in practice as in the rest of the civilized world

though we don't have a private prison industry bent on moar business, imho a small but significant detail

meanwhile India is officially pissed with the US about the Devyani_Khobragade_incident, where she claims having been subject to cavity searches. I somehow still don't understand why the arrest of this diplomat was necessary at all

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:35 | 4303282 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

So which law is it again that protects a citizen from public view roadside body cavity searches.......?? How about the one that protects our wives and children from having their genitalia groped at airports.......?? Looks like I need to brush up on my rights. BTW, It's now against the law to 'annoy' a police officer in NYC; whatever the fuck that means......

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:49 | 4303318 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Back when Common Law ruled the land, the public was free to use public roads for any non-commercial use without license, registration, or hindrance of any sort.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:53 | 4303337 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Yeah, well times have changed. Now the best legal minds in the U.S. recommend sitting there like a good little citizen, taking shit from some asshole cop who is just looking for a reason to cart you off to jail for obstruction because you didn't get the answers to all of his fucking trivia questions correct.......

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:15 | 4303424 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

When you hear NY's finest say "Stop and frisk that Nigger! I don't like the way he looks!" you know we're not in the Land o' the free anymore.   




Edit.... and it started with Hillary as senator. Don't forget that. t,  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:18 | 4303527 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

My favorite, from a state trooper friend: Load of coal going north on I-75.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:28 | 4303432 acetinker
acetinker's picture

Officer: Do you know why I pulled you over?

Me:  I don't answer questions.

Officer: How much have you had to drink tonight?

Me: Which part of I don't answer questions did you fail to understand?

Officer: Step out of the vehicle, sir!

Me: What charge(s) are you prepared to levy against me?

Officer: Step out of the vehicle, sir!

Me: I should also mention that I don't follow orders, and reiterate that you need to make your claim, and charge me with a crime, before you presume to order me around.

Officer goes back to his car, and fumbles around for a bit...  He comes back after a bit, and wishes me a good day.



Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:37 | 4303448 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

{orders to exit car and uses night stick and/or weapon to place you on ground for cuffs}

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:51 | 4303474 acetinker
acetinker's picture

It took me awhile to recognize how the game is played.  My face has met the pavement a time or two, I have scars to remind me.  I am just relating strategies that worked when dealing with cops.  You prolly don't wanna hear about the ones that didn't.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:20 | 4303484 Erudite Redneck
Erudite Redneck's picture

Free law class:  Never talk to the police.  Anything you say will either be nuetral or negative, period.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:58 | 4303676 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

EXCELLENT Video - Thanks Erudite Redneck.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:38 | 4303708 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Second on the 'good on yer' to ER for that video. Watch it, people. learn it. Live it. Make your spouse/kids/relatives/neighbors watch it too. It can (literally) keep your life from being ruined. Or ended.

Also, since I like ZH readers, this tip from a relative who used to be a cop: If you're a non-smoker, keep your car's registration & insurance paperwork all folded up neatly in your ashtray. If stopped by a cop, this is what it'll do for you: 1) since you always know right where it is and don't have to fumble around trying to find it, you won't look nervous to the cop 2) seeing that you're not nervous will calm the cop down. that alone will dial down _his_ volume, and your chances of driving off with just a warning improve greatly. 3) since they're in their own little self-contained compartment, you'll be able to present your papers to the cop without having to open up your glovebox/center console/purse, etc. Those are usually the places where folks keep things they might not want/need a cop to be seeing: weapons, rx pills, rolling papers, etc etc. Letting the cop see as little as possible is a good thing: to a cop looking for a reason to jack you up, a tic-tac can be (sworn to) resemble "an illicit drug, Your Honor!" 

Lastly, never ever call the cops unless you're *desperate*. Google all the stories of cops gunning down the agitated family member they were called to "help". There are very, VERY few situations in which the arrival of the police won't make matters MUCH worse.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:14 | 4304881 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

> Lastly, never ever call the cops unless you're *desperate*. Google all the stories of cops gunning down the agitated family member they were called to "help".

On Drudge now:

Parents call police for help, cops show up and kill their 18-year-old son

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:07 | 4303515 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I can see a nubile cop using an excuse to get physical. My way works for me. The militarization of the police may make our innocent encounters become more Stasi like.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:25 | 4303545 acetinker
acetinker's picture

It's been quiet for awhile now, but news of killed cops is due to make a re-appearance.  My next door neighbor is a cop.  I heard just yesterday that his dog died from some sort of internal malady.

I actually like the dude.  He hasn't the first clue of who he works for or why. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:10 | 4303520 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

you sounds like someone with a theoretical understanding of the law.  but let me tell u the practical application part can be a real bitch if u dont have a badge.  ask your black friends

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:09 | 4304107 acetinker
acetinker's picture

You wouldn't know, would you?  I can tell because you don't even understand what the word understand means to leo or a judge.  You are not a subject.  You are not compelled to respond.  You never want to say you understand, capiche?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:32 | 4303443 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Ach Schnell! Zie Kapital of Kentucky!?!? Tell me now or feel me later!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:22 | 4303753 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Just tell'm your an illegal alien. They'll wave you right through.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:58 | 4303921 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Make sure you get your bling bag.


I hear that Paul Ryan's and Marco Rubio's are the best. There's all kinds of crap in there.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:53 | 4303959 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Ask an attorney how to change jurisdiction in the courtroom from maritime to common law.  Or even better, ask an attorney the definition of attornment.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:19 | 4304672 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Common law still exists, but not necessarily by default. The defendant usually gives up many of his common law rights unknowingly, but "ignorance of the law is no excuse".

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:23 | 4303550 monkeyboy
monkeyboy's picture

But what if you like having your genitalia touched?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:30 | 4303903 spankfish
spankfish's picture

The words arbitrary and capricious have never entered the minds of the numb skulls that write New York City laws... they don't call it a Bloomey Sanction for nothing.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:41 | 4303295 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

Fuck the police

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:08 | 4303374 Leonardo Fibonacci2
Leonardo Fibonacci2's picture

the po po like obama would say!!!!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:39 | 4303710 vato poco
vato poco's picture

NWA was right

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:43 | 4303299 NIHILIST CIPHER

This thing they have lately with police checkpoints for the pupose of forcing motorist to give them a (mouth swab) DNA sample, WTF.Some .01% asswipe needs a liver so we are to give them samples to find a match. HELL NO !    Even the nazis weren't this weird.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:40 | 4303300 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

The infographic assumes the Bill of Rights and case law mean something.  They don't.  You have whatever rights the police, prosecutor, and judge decide you have.  The law has nothing to do with it.  We don't have a legal system, we have a judicial system.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:45 | 4303315 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

Avatar and screen name mismatch? Though both make a sweet product.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:59 | 4303349 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

Trucker Glock is a lame play on "trucker clock", which is a play on trucker cock.

I made the avatar the day I read about the little girl that got suspended for suggesting to her friend they go home and shoot each other with her Hello Kitty bubble gun.

I have a friend that keeps bugging me to make the HK pink.  Too lazy, so far.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:59 | 4303357 ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

And that's the rest of the story...good stuff! Thx

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:07 | 4303382 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

And I happen to have a H&K USP Tactical and a Glock 19.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:26 | 4303428 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

So can we still shoot each other with our Hello Kitty bubble guns then? I don't think it's as much fun with a Glock 19, and we might miss recess.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:14 | 4303635 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

There could very well be a recess if we hit with the 19.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:10 | 4303516 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

fuck your plastic nazi pistol.  my local range does not permit magnums.  i squeezed off 6 357s real quick.  all the faggy police and wannabe types just about shit their pants. and then i was promptly asked to leave

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:52 | 4303610 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

A private range FTW!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:03 | 4303892 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

You're fucked up SmackDaddy.  First you want to shoot police with rounds to penetrate body armor and now this stupidity at a range is just plain fucked up.

No shit they don't want magnums if it's an indoor range!   Many indoor ranges don't allow any center fire nor even 22 mags now.

I'm so glad they threw a douche like you out of there!   And so what if you "sqeezed off 6 357s real quick"! Anybody can do that.


I'm sure the officers at the range took note of you and have you on a watch list. They've probably did a background check on

you to see if you can legally own a firearm.  Expect to be handled with extreme caution when you get stopped for any reason because the police now know you're armed and dangerous.

You will probably be killed by police soon.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:13 | 4303897 negative rates
negative rates's picture

And I can't imagine why.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:00 | 4303347 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

I would add that the levels of justice received vary wildly from court system to court system, even within the federal courts.  Even within a singular court system, it can vary quite a bit, depending on the subject.  At the state trial court level, the judges where I am are pretty good, but the DA is not.  If a cop interviews somebody and determines you have committed a minor or even a kind of serious crime, but doesn't really have the evidence to convict, the DA will throw several erroneous felonies at you just to use as leverage to get you to plea out.  The cops, especially APD, really suck and are really abusive.  So, having decent judges is a big plus. 


I don't know how my particular federal court deals with the Feds, but it has no patience with abuse from the local police departments.  I was reading a recent case the other day where the judge ruled that two police officers' qualified immunity did not apply when they arrested two guys for concealing their identity.  The kicker was, the police lacked reasonable suspicion and probable cause to detain the men in the first place, so the court allowed them to be sued personally.  Then there's this one:


APD’s arrest of an unarmed, 60-year-old intoxicated man by firing numerous bean bags at him, siccing a dog on him and then repeatedly Tasering him was “clearly excessive” force, says a federal judge who took the unusual step of overturning the jury’s verdict in the case.

U.S. District Court Chief Judge Bruce D. Black said it would be “a miscarriage of justice” to let the verdict in favor of the Albuquerque Police Department stand.

“No reasonable person could believe that an inhibited, slow-moving 60-year old individual who made no physical or verbal threats and wielded no weapons could constitute a threat to the safety of any of the 47 armed and shielded police officers who stood 20 feet away,” Black wrote, reversing the outcome of the weeklong jury trial last October in Santa Fe.

“Nothing presented at trial showed that the officers’ extraordinary use of force was reasonably necessary to safely arrest (the plaintiff),” said the opinion Black wrote this month.

He speculated that jurors may have been confused by a disorganized presentation of the plaintiff’s case and a weak expert, but concluded no reasonable jury could have found in favor of APD.

“Instead, the only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from evidence shown is that the force was clearly excessive. Allowing this verdict to stand would be a miscarriage of justice, and (the plaintiff’s) motion for judgment as a matter of law will be granted.”

The decision to overturn the verdict and issue his own findings in the civil case is so novel that experienced trial lawyers can’t remember a similar occurrence during their careers.


This is not the first time that judge has come down on APD either. 


But then, you have shit like this out of the 9th Circus:

A combination of non-suspicious driving characteristics can give rise to the suspicion of criminal activity in the opinion of the full Ninth Circuit US Court of Appeals. In a Christmas Eve ruling, the judges weighed whether Border Patrol agents were right to conduct a “border stop” of a red Ford F-150 pickup truck on Interstate 15 while 70 miles north of the border with Mexico.

Border Patrol Agent Luis Lopez spotted the Ford weaving through traffic without signaling, driving about 10 MPH faster than other traffic that day. Agent Jeffery Hays, in a marked Border Patrol vehicle, pulled next to the red truck, but its driver, Rufino Ignacio Valdes-Vega, kept his eyes watching the road ahead. Hays deemed that suspicious. In addition, Hays noted there were no other people in the Ford, which was clean and had Baja California license plates. Agent Hays pulled Valdes-Vega over, but not for traffic violations. He wanted to perform a search of the truck. When he did, he found drugs.

The court was asked to review whether the initial traffic stop was legitimate. Border Patrol agents are allowed to conduct brief investigatory stops if they have a particularized, objective reason to suspect an individual of criminal activity.

“The fact that Valdes-Vega’s truck had Mexican license plates made the possibility that it had recently crossed the border significantly more likely,” Judge Ronald M. Gould wrote for the court majority. “And the border patrol agents noted that the type of vehicle was significant because trucks are suitable for carrying large amounts of contraband and make it difficult for agents to see into the vehicle.”

The court majority concluded that these factors taken together with the slightly fast driving created suspicion that the man behind the wheel was likely to be a smuggler.

Even innocent, noncriminal acts can foster reasonable suspicion in the total context,” Judge Gould wrote. “There is no need for an officer to rule out an innocent explanation. This holds true even if it is far from certain that the suspect is actually engaged in illegal activity.”



Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:53 | 4303488 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Sounds about right for the APD.  Little know fact that "COPS" the show was told not to come back for filming there because it was giving Albuquerque a "bad image".  It's like your wife asking if her pants make her ass look fat.

Your shitty populace and high crime make your image look bad.  Duh!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:16 | 4303530 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

The police do suck, but the populace is fickle.  With a couple of notable exceptions, I get along great here.  Some do not.  But, we also have this going for us (Summary: Decided in 2009, Individual cops successfully sued for a 4th amendment violation because they detained a guy for legally open carrying.):

This is a 42 U.S.C. § 1983 case[1] brought by Plaintiff Matthew St. John after he was 1158*1158 escorted out of the Aviator 10 Movie Theater in Alamogordo ("Theater") and patted down. Defendants, including David McColley, are Alamogordo police officers who were dispatched to the Theater in response to a call from Theater manager Robert Zigmond. Upon arrival, Mr. Zigmond informed Officer McColley that an individual, later identified as Mr. St. John, had entered the Theater wearing a holstered handgun. Mr. Zigmond directed Officer McColley to the theater where Mr. St. John was watching a movie and requested that Officer McColley "pull him out" because Mr. St. John's firearm was "making [Mr. Zigmond's] customers upset." McColley Depo. 10:18-10:20.


Officer McColley entered the crowded theater accompanied by three other Defendants and, after Mr. Zigmond pointed Mr. St. John out, asked Mr. St. John if he was carrying a firearm. Mr. St. John replied that he was, whereupon Officer McColley instructed Mr. St. John "to keep your hands where I can see them." McColley Depo. 10:18-10:20. Officer McColley told Mr. St. John that he needed to accompany Defendants out of the theater. After Mr. St. John stood up, Officer McColley removed Mr. St. John from the Theater in an escort hold,[2] securing Mr. St. John's left arm. According to Officer McColley, one of the other three Defendants may have secured Mr. St. John's right arm as he was led out of the Theater. McColley Depo. 15:10-15:13.


Once outside, Officer McColley continued to restrain Mr. St. John's left arm while Defendants removed the gun from Mr. St. John's holster, removed the gun's magazine and cleared a chambered bullet. Defendants then instructed Mr. St. John to place his hands on a nearby wall and proceeded to pat him down. No contraband or additional weapons were found on Mr. St. John and a police database check revealed that he possessed the gun lawfully.


Having taken the weapon, Officer McColley informed Mr. St. John that he could return to the movie if he left the gun in his truck. Mr. St. John agreed and led officers to his truck, where they placed the unloaded gun. Mr. St. John reloaded and recocked the weapon before leaving it in the truck and returning to the Theater for the remainder of the movie. Throughout the incident, which Mr. St. John estimates took approximately thirty minutes, St. John Depo. 118:22, Mr. St. John was, as Officer McColley recalls, "respectful and cooperative." McColley Depo. 16:14.


In September 2008, Mr. St. John filed suit in New Mexico state court alleging Fourth Amendment violations, violations of the New Mexico Constitution, battery, and false arrest. He asserts his federal claims under 42 U.S.C. § 1983 and his state-law claims under the New Mexico Tort Claims Act. Based inter alia on 28 U.S.C. § 1331 and 28 U.S.C. § 1441, Defendants removed this matter in October 2008. Discovery commenced and, in May 2009, both parties filed summary-judgment motions averring that no genuine issues of material fact exist. Mr. St. John seeks an entry of judgment in his favor on all counts. Defendants assert both that Mr. St. John has no cognizable claims and that Defendants 1159*1159 are protected from suit by qualified immunity.

Both motions are presently before the Court.




The Tenth Circuit has also dealt with this question. In United States v. King, 990 F.2d 1552 (10th Cir.1993) the Tenth Circuit found that an investigatory detention initiated by an officer after he discovered that the defendant lawfully possessed a loaded firearm lacked sufficient basis because the firearm alone did not create a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. In King, an Albuquerque police officer seized and searched King when, concerned that King's honking would cause an accident, he approached King's vehicle and observed a loaded firearm under King's 1162*1162 thigh. Id. at 1555. Recognizing that King was allowed to carry a loaded, concealed firearm in his vehicle under New Mexico law, the court explained that—in light of the legality of King's actions—permitting such detentions would render the Fourth Amendment functionally meaningless:




Qualified Immunity

Defendants next assert that qualified immunity shields them from Mr. St. John's Fourth Amendment claims. Qualified immunity protects government officials from civil damages "insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known." Harlow v. Fitzgerald, 457 U.S. 800, 818, 102 S.Ct. 2727, 73 L.Ed.2d 396 (1982).




As discussed above, Mr. St. John was seized and searched in violation of his Fourth Amendment rights. The question then becomes whether, at the time of the incident, Mr. St. John's rights were clearly established. The Court finds that they were.


Relying on well-defined Supreme Court precedent, the Tenth Circuit and its sister courts have consistently held that officers may not seize or search an individual without a specific, legitimate reason. See Terry, 392 U.S. at 21, 88 S.Ct. 1868; Fuerschbach, 439 F.3d at 1204-6 (holding that a seizure without a reasonable suspicion of criminal activity "would violate the most minimal Fourth Amendment standard"); Jones v. Hunt, 410 F.3d at 1228 ("Where no legitimate basis exists for detaining [an individual], a seizure is plainly unreasonable."); Duran, 904 F.2d at 1378 ("If there is one irreducible minimum in our Fourth Amendment jurisprudence, it is that a police officer may not detain an individual simply on the basis of suspicion in the air. No matter how peculiar, abrasive, unruly or distasteful a person's conduct may be, it cannot justify a police stop unless it suggests that some specific crime has been, or is about to be, committed or that there is an imminent danger to persons or property."); see also Lawrence Rosenthal, Second Amendment Plumbing after Heller: Standards of Scrutiny, Incorporation, Well-Regulated Militias, and Criminal Street Gangs, 41 Urb. Law. 1, 37 (2009) ("When applicable law does not ban carrying a firearm, however, the Fourth Amendment does not permit a stop-and-frisk regardless of any indication that a suspect is armed or potentially dangerous because there is no indication that the suspect is violating the law."). For example, in Sorrell v. McGuigan, 38 Fed.Appx. 970, 973 (4th Cir.2002) (unpublished) the Fourth Circuit denied qualified immunity to an officer who seized an individual for lawfully carrying weapon. Noting that a state statute made the plaintiff's concealed carrying of the weapon legal, the court found that, though "[q]ualified immunity protects law enforcement officers from bad guesses in gray areas," the fact that the plaintiff's actions were clearly permissible under the statute meant that the officer "was not in a gray area." Id. at 974.


The applicable law was equally clear in this case. Nothing in New Mexico law prohibited Mr. St. John from openly carrying a firearm in the Theater. See N.M. Stat. § 30-7 et seq. Because both New Mexico law and the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unjustified seizure were clearly established, and a reasonable officer is presumed to know clearly established law, see, e.g., Harlow, 457 U.S. at 818-19, 102 S.Ct. 2727, qualified immunity does not protect Defendants. Accordingly, Mr. St. John's motion for summary judgment is granted with regard to his Fourth Amendment and New Mexico constitutional claims. Defendants' motion for summary judgment is denied with regard to the same and with regard to qualified immunity.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:22 | 4303547 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

At some point the dipshits will hopefully learn.  I got along fine there, just not a big fan.  Spent nearly 13 years total there over several "stays".

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:30 | 4303569 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Huh, I like it here.  I go out of state and it just doesn't seem right.  Then again, NM is a very unique state culturally.  (Speaking of unique culture, I have an invite to go to a pueblo feast at Acoma later this year.  Good motherfucking food.)

Oh, and the dipshits aren't going to learn until either some sort of SHTF happens and they figure out that they are in the minority when people no longer care, or the DA starts actually filing criminal charges and throwing their asses in the clank when they are abusive.  As it stands now, they quite literally get away with murder. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:48 | 4303603 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Agreed, and Acoma sky city is cool.  I've done all sort of stuff in that area.  It has a ton of memories for me.  There's some pretty cool stuff out there, Jemez mountains, Sandia, El Mal Pais, the petroglyphs, etc.  I crewed for Wells Fargo Centre Stage balloon crew for several years at the Balloon Fiesta.


I'm just more a beach boy, and lord knows any decent body of boatable water is a couple hours away.

Stay safe cowboy!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:05 | 4303619 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Wells Fargo has several balloons.  Was the one you crewed for one of the special shapes?  Special shapes look cool, but screw crewing for those things.  I crew every year.  I have some balloonist friends that come in from out of town every year, and it's kind of turned into a tradition where several of us put on dinners, crew, and have a general good time.  As you know, you also not only get good parking and free admission to the fiesta, but if you go to many of the events for crew and pilots, you get food and all you can drink free beer too.  Plus, my pilots take the crew for rides.  Always a plus.  We landed in the same field as one of the hornets (special shape from Brazil) one year, and helped pack the balloon up.  That's one of the easier special shapes, and it was a bitch compared to a normal balloon.  I remember flying off of the field a few years ago, and that big sun balloon just inflated for the crowd, then laid it down.  It was right around freezing, and they had to walk on the balloon to get everything packed up correctly.  Bare foot.  Fuck that shit.  I've never watched them pack up the Creamland cow, but that thing has to be a motherfucker. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:22 | 4303636 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

I've done both special shapes and normal envelope for WF.  Yes Centre Stage is the large stagecoach.  At the time I was crewing they had 4 balloons total.  Centre Stage and 3 round for VIP flights.  Access to the VIP tent is a nice benefit of crewing.  I know the "bees" and assisted with several other special shape crews with ascension.  The angle and devil are a couple of them.

Our technique was shoes off, cell phone off, then "rolling" the air out with our bodies.  The early hours suck and you're tired by the end of the day, but all in all I had a good time,

Still miss the green chili and breakfast burritos.  Faaaaq they're SO good.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:31 | 4303944 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

"NM is a very unique state culturally"

That is definately an understatement. I tend to avoid ALBQ and stick to the higher elevations.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:19 | 4304016 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

That pretty much limits you to Santa Fe, the Pecos area, and the northern mountains.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:45 | 4305192 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Raton. Big fan of the nearby range with 1000 yd competition and 1000 meter steel.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:10 | 4303992 sleigher
sleigher's picture

sounds like the APD is corrupt and the fed judge is sick of it.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:04 | 4303735 Adahy
Adahy's picture

Even innocent, noncriminal acts can foster reasonable suspicion in the total context,

NSA metadata...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:34 | 4305160 vato poco
vato poco's picture

It's always amazed me how New Mexico - easily one of the most *profoundly* corrupt states in the US - always gets left off them "crooked govt" lists you see sometimes.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:41 | 4303306 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Think of Boston and searching homes without a warrant.

The constitution has been nullified by the law enforcement goons.

It's now the law of the banksters.

Seizure of your funds in financial institutions soon for the good of banksters and government. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:01 | 4303499 prains
prains's picture

Boston was a planned training mission

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:17 | 4303801 Martel
Martel's picture

I don't think it was planned. But they surely seized the opportunity.

Once the police has been militarized, it will behave in military ways. This development has been going in the U.S. since 1970's (at least), when the first SWAT teams were established. Now even small towns have their own. Since most of these towns are peaceful, those teams are being used in situations that in no way warrant using such an excessive force.

You can't get rid of the "Security" machinery anymore, because it is there to protect the powers that be. The way to freedom goes through economic collapse, and that you can speed up by stopping supporting the state. No need to object them, just stop supporting & ignore them when possible.

You pay for your own oppression:

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:20 | 4303538 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

"FBI historian and Marquette University professor Athan Theoharis agreed that the changes reflect what's really happening at the agency, but said the timing isn't clear. "I can't explain why FBI officials decided to change the fact sheet... unless in the current political climate that change benefits the FBI politically and undercuts criticisms," he said. He mentioned the negative attention surrounding the FBI's failure in April to foil the bomb plot at the Boston Marathon by Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev."

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:47 | 4303920 spankfish
spankfish's picture

"He mentioned the negative attention surrounding the FBI's failure in April to foil the bomb plot at the Boston Marathon by Dzhokhar and Tamerlan Tsarnaev.""

I beleive the younger generation call that an "epic failure".

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:36 | 4304177 kchrisc
kchrisc's picture

Saw that. I guess we now know who the United Police States of America's Gestapo is--the Federal Bureau of Invention. LOL

I don't know if anyone also caught their sleight of hand admission of keeping a file on every American.

Their statement is that they don't keep a file on every American, but the statement below that is that they were founded in 1908 and have few records prior. So basically they are saying that they have a record of everyone born since 1908. LOL


"Ignorance of that 'goddamned piece of paper' and 'following orders' is no excuse."

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:46 | 4303317 Greenskeeper_Carl
Greenskeeper_Carl's picture

its bullshit they are allowed to get away with that much. Stopping people for no reason is unconstitutional, no matter how you wrap it up

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:14 | 4304004 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Not if you consent to it.  Having a drivers license is your consent.  

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:51 | 4303327 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Bullshit but sounds nice.
I have been detained at the border because my passport was too new. They put handcuffs on me and when i tried the "am i being arrested or am i free to go" line they claimed that It was necessary because "your in a secure area, the handcuffs are to keep you safe."
Once i sat next to a guy who was booked for "attempted jaywalking"
A friend of mine was tazed and beaten for refusing to show ID. "he looked like he was going to run"
Another friend was handcuffed for jaywalking after the cop who was in middle of the street ordered him to come over.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:10 | 4303344 NIHILIST CIPHER

MM      Jeez, where do you live, North Korea?  That's just rude. Those border guards aren't real warm and fuzzy.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:26 | 4303418 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

His theme song is Johnny Cash "I've been everywhere".

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:51 | 4303480 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

Prithee, peace:
I dare do all that may become a man;
Who dares do more is none

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:59 | 4303352 DirkDiggler11
DirkDiggler11's picture

Was Rodney King a friend of yours as well ?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:52 | 4303333 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Be polite. Be respectful. Answer every question with a question, if possible...or don't answer at all.

They pull you over & ask for your ID, it doesn't require any response on your part besides you producing it.


Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:24 | 4303413 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

In court you should wear blue. Something about sympathy or something.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:46 | 4303470 Trucker Glock
Trucker Glock's picture

It's interesting.  A friend of mine got pulled over driving my truck.  The cop pulled the "I smell marijuana" trick.  My buddy was dressed like a bum at the time.  But, when he told the cop he and I (the truck owner) were engineers, my buddy says the cop's attitude totally changed and sent him on his way.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 22:56 | 4303351 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Just about all of them, are now a bunch of bald headed, steroid juicing cocksuckers.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:39 | 4303459 the0ther
the0ther's picture

And not just one or two cocks here and there. Bags of cocks.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:58 | 4303614 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

When all you have is a cocksucker, every problem looks like a cock!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 05:01 | 4303829 Andy Lewis
Andy Lewis's picture

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:42 | 4304043 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

You sure this isn't Andy Dick?!

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:14 | 4303370 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

That shit only works if you have lots of spare time and money. You have rights if you can afford to do all the BS associated with fighting city hall. If you have a job and a family to feed, best to do what they say.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:32 | 4303813 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

The other thing about fighting the MAN, and my maestro taught me this 20+ years ago, is that once your over 50 and they hit you in the head, your teeth fall out,

When your young you can get hit in the head all the time, and nothing happens, shit the next day its ever-ready-bunny, but once you get old, ... the next day hurts for weeks,

So go for it when your young, but when you get old, well if your smart you have to keep your mouth shut, bend over and smile.

Welcome to ameriKKKa.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:15 | 4303394 noob
noob's picture

Roger Hodgson - Give A Little Bit (From "Take The Long Way Home" DVD)

Sex Pistols - God Save the Queen (Studio)

Pink Floyd-Another Brick In The Wall [HQ]

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:15 | 4303403 vadu
vadu's picture

There should be a test on this every year in high school and to get a driver's license and to vote and to register your car.

The police should be tested on this too.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:49 | 4303406 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

What's your home planet? Sounds like a nice place.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:19 | 4303412 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

So by dropping out of school i can't drive or vote?

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:21 | 4303410 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

I take my 7 yr coin out when pulled over and say I'm in AA. Stops them dead their tracks cuz basically they use the DUI to basically search you. I hold on the wheel DL/Reg/Ins in one hand and my coin in the other. It's like 5 for 5. Other than that I am respectful. Haven't had any problems and most cops are fairly nice. Now when the DHS becomes the one pulling me over, well.....

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:24 | 4303421 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

If DHS pulls me over, you're going to enjoy the youtube, because I will take video and I will not be polite in the slightest.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:43 | 4303587 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Do you think a 7 day coin would work?

Seriously though, on two occasions during the past year I have been given a break (no ticket) because I was wearing a TEA Party/Gadsden Flag t-shirt. Still lot's of good cops out there.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:56 | 4303611 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

24 hour coin would render the vehicle searched.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 04:34 | 4303814 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

while i share your enthusiasm for limited government, i can't agree with your logic.

"good" cops will do their job without regard for what flag you are waving, and will treat all people equally without favoritism.

and a great cop, is the one who has recognized the evil inherent in the system he is perpetrating, and quit, deciding instead to do something productive with his life.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:08 | 4304409 falconflight
falconflight's picture

double post

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:08 | 4304410 falconflight
falconflight's picture

Or a "great" cop will stay and use descretion...street adjudicate, when to enforce the increasingly despotic laws being passed.  Another 40,000 laws passed at all gov't levels in 2013.  I have nothing but disrepect and contempt for LE busting drivers for seat belt  use.  Those are uniformed pigs and deserve a response that I can no longer legally utter.  just sayin

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:14 | 4303423 Robinhood
Robinhood's picture

The info graphic is great but lets give credit to the real patiots who put their asses on the line to remind the law of the law.



Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:16 | 4303617 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

i fucking hate cops with a passion.    that's why i wouldnt call the cops if i saw one of these attention seeking clowns walking around my neighborhood.  im dealin em fuckin lead

oh and the bible thumping bitches wearing the 'repent' tshirts.  id punch that bitch so fucking hard and then hate rape her until her pussy cant push out any more retards

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 07:13 | 4303898 negative rates
negative rates's picture

Execpt the one that you just produced.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:29 | 4303434 the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

yeah just tell them you voted for obama and they'll let you go

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:36 | 4303445 Reaper
Reaper's picture

The most important legal advice you'll ever receive:  1.  Never trust the police or the FBI.    2. Watch this video and ask why the FBI would not want recorded video, unless they wanted to lie and distort without a record.

3.  Next watch this legal advice about the police.

4.  The courts will almost always never enforce your rights.   Their gimmick is to trap you with their questions and if needed lie about your responses.    Just say nothing and provide requested papers in your car.  Martha Steward went to jail because she talked to police. 

Our courts are corrupt.  Our police are corrupt. We're still looking for an honest decent judge here in the Second Federal Circuit.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:29 | 4303564 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

I have never had my Meranda's read.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:06 | 4303682 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

The FBI thing is worth paying attention to.  Even if the attorney is full of shit, you lose almost nothing by keeping your mouth shut, except for possibly a few days in a holding cell.  If he is not full of shit, which I think is probably right, you can fuck the FBI over if you know that policy. 

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:43 | 4303464 goldinpenguin
goldinpenguin's picture

Agree, answer every question with two questions 1) why do you ask;2) do I have to answer

Also if a cop at your door asks to step inside or asks you to step outside always say NO, nothing good can possibly come of these requests, the initial instinct is to be reasonably nice guy but once they step inside and start looking around the fishing expeditions can start and once they get you to step out of your castle it's alot easier to start messing with you.

There is a loss to trust and respect for government and police, even localpolice are looking to drum up charges for promotions and the local munisare hungry for $$$

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:53 | 4303482 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

While it will probably work for you, as advice for the average person, I would disagree with this:

2) do I have to answer

The reason being is that most people don't really know their rights, are intimidated by cops, and cops lie.  For most people I would advise

  1. Knowing if there is a "stop and identify" statute in their state.
  2. "I do not wish to make any statements."
  3. "I do not consent to any searches."
  4. "Am I being detained, or am I free to go."

Of course, 4 is a little unnecessary if you are in your house, then they should do exactly what you say.  Stay inside. Don't answer any questions.  I'd go as far as locking the door and telling them that they are tresspassing. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:17 | 4303690 August
August's picture

>>Also if a cop at your door asks to step inside or asks you to step outside always say NO,

You are very correct.  One of my family members is a cop, and has had cases dropped by the local prosecutor based purely on which side of the door frame he or the suspect were standing. 

I can't say I understand the exact legal principle involved, but basically inside your home is a heck of a lot different from outside your home.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:35 | 4304511 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

It's called the Vampire Principle.

Sun, 01/05/2014 - 23:53 | 4303486 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Thanks much for this info, which will leave me better prepared for my next encounter with LE here in DC, which seems to have more than its share of cops confused about their roles and who serves whom.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:20 | 4303541 wisehiney
wisehiney's picture

Years ago a couple of cops came to a rowdy party at my house. I asked them politely if there had been any complaints? "No." Any alarms? "No."  Anything? "No." I said "Well what the fuck are you doing here?" They left, and did not come back. Nowadays, the swat team would fuck up every one there. (sigh) The good old days.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:24 | 4303543 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



The problem with these 'one size fits all' legal guides is that laws vary so much by state, that they become pretty useless in specific instances.

While they get the basic 4th Amendment issues correct; they are almost completely wrong on the DUI laws.

Under the implied consent law in California, you CANNOT refuse a chemical test. If you refuse to take a breath test, they can LEGALLY hold you down and conduct a forced blood draw; and then SUSPEND YOUR LICENSE ANYWAY for refusing to voluntarily test.

Furthermore, modern breath testing equipment IS extremely accurate in all but the most bizarre/extreme cases. The newest devices account for mouth alcohol (i.e., reflux or regurgitation), and won't accept a breath sample without adequate volume/flow rates (adjusting for lung capacity, sex, etc.)

If your state still allows it, the best choice of chemical testing is urine. It is nearly impossible to tie a given marijuana level in the urine to a standard of impairment, and also difficult for alcohol as well.

The last line of defense is to agree to take a urine test, and then stall, and claim you can't urinate. (Juries tend to understand this and sympathize).

Finally, if what you are videotaping is a CRIME IN PROGRESS; the cops CAN seize your equipment to preserve evidence of that crime, under the exigent circumstances doctrine.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:23 | 4303649 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture


Finally, if what you are videotaping is a CRIME IN PROGRESS; the cops CAN seize your equipment to preserve evidence of that crime, under the exigent circumstances doctrine. 

Since you are talking about lawfully seizing, rather than cops being cops and just siezing shit because they're cops, that's only going to be under very specific circumstances.  They'll have to have reason to believe that you'll never be found again, or that you'll delete the video or some other reason to believe that the evidence will be destoyed or inaccessable. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:15 | 4303689 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



"They'll have to have reason to believe that you'll never be found again, or that you'll delete the video or some other reason to believe that the evidence will be destoyed or inaccessable."

That's all they need. Also, if the person doing the recording isn't the crime suspect, he has no standing to assert his 4th Amendment rights to suppress that evidence against the criminal. So even if he can establish an illegal seizure, he has no remedy.



Mon, 01/06/2014 - 02:34 | 4303705 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

He does, however, have a reason to resist an unreasonable seizure.  That's not just limited to criminal suspects, you know. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:24 | 4304025 sleigher
sleigher's picture

Unless you are in Baltimore and the cops are beating the shit out of someone for no reason.  Then they want the camera to protect themselves from prosecution.  No really, I was there...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 00:55 | 4303612 darteaus
darteaus's picture

Additional police stop information courtesy of Chris Rock:

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:13 | 4303629 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture


Speaking of staying out of jail,

JPMorgan agrees to pay $2bn related to Madoff.

Notice that the payment will be made to prosecutors in Manhattan. It's called a "deferred prosecution agreement." If they pay, the prosecutors will not...prosecute.

Anyways I have two hypotheses related to Madoff

1) Madoff is not actually in jail right now. He is relaxing somewhere and enjoying life. (Similar to Jon Corzine.)

2) US taxpayers have, or will, make Madoff investors whole on their losses

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:10 | 4303630 kragsquest
kragsquest's picture

I was camping at a state park last summer, they have a no drinking rule.  The state dep clerk said he smelled alcohol, I didn't do anything of a problematic nature just spent the night in the tent.  The next day a cop followed me thirty miles or so up to the MA border, probably waiting for probable cause.  No doubt I was reported by the jerk state official....And no he did not put on the flashing lights.  These guys need to get a real job.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:19 | 4303641 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

Oh, and...

Silver, Bitchez

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 01:41 | 4303663 22winmag
22winmag's picture

The beatings will continue until obedience improves.


Police unions exist to cover for drug addicted, steroid using cops.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 03:02 | 4303727 satoshi101
satoshi101's picture

The problem with ameriKKKa is TOO MUCH EASY FIAT, but don't think for a moment the rest of the world has this 'problem'.

Most cop's world-wide hardly have enough pocket change to buy bullets, more than have a gun that actually works,

Lastly, the problem with ameriKKKa is now the cops come from somewhere else, they don't know the locals so they treat them like shit, of course this was by design.


Here I want to tell a cop story, when I was a kid, under 10 I had to spend the summer up in Oregon, in Oakridge a logging town, well that summer there was a cop that was an asshole, and he was beating kids left and right, and one night that cop got knocked over the head, and somehow wound up on the rail-road tracks, and that cop lost one of his legs, and after that no cop ever fucked with the kids again.

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