This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Detroit Emergency Manager "Freezes" Pension Fund

Tyler Durden's picture





 

So far, city employees of bankrupt Detroit have stoically withstood all direct and indirect eliminations of their entitlements and retirement benefits, which was to be expected: after all as per a recent finding, they are merely an unsecured claim in an insolvent entity. However, following the latest shot across the bow from Detroit's emergency manager Kevyn Orr, which freezes pension plans for all non-uniform employees, said stoicism will likely be acutely tested.

As Detroit News reports,

Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr has frozen the city’s pension plans for all non-uniform employees, closing the General Retirement System effective Jan. 1.

 

Orr’s Dec. 30 action freezes earned pension benefits for employees in the General Retirement System and creates a new 401(k)-style defined contribution retirement plan for existing and future city workers, according to a copy of the emergency manager’s order obtained by The Detroit News.

 

As part of the order, Orr also eliminated the pension “escalator,” effectively eliminating any future cost-of-living increases for all retired city employees in the General Retirement System.

 

The emergency manager’s order also closes the pension system’s Annuity Savings Fund, an added benefit for some municipal workers.

 

...

 

City employees who were not already vested in the retirement system “shall not be entitled” to pension benefits, according to the order.

 

...

 

Tina Bassett, a spokeswoman for the General Retirement System, called Orr’s pension freeze “an outrageous and over-zealous action.”

 

“Again the EM’s office demonstrates a lack of integrity and willingness to make a good faith effort when negotiating with our pension system,” Bassett said in a statement. “Currently we are in the midst of mediations that we thought were going rather well. We can only wonder, why take this action now and for what purpose?

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:11 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Welcome to Soviet Republik of Detroit – no pension for you! There is no liberal problem more socialism is cannot solve.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:20 | Link to Comment ghengis86
ghengis86's picture

Dear City Pensioners

YOU HAVE NO MORE FUCKING MONEY YOU FUCKING IDIOT LEACHES!

Regards,

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:39 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

I wonder if the unions are proud of what they and their beauraucrat bosses at city hall have created.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

They voted for this.   Hope & Change.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:07 | Link to Comment B.J. Worthy
B.J. Worthy's picture

They wanted Change, they got Spare Change.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:47 | Link to Comment Keyser
Keyser's picture

Pensions are an artifact of the past and they are lucky that those already vested have their equivalent basis converted to a 401K. Watch for this to happen all over America. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Until government is confiscate private account (why is call 104K!?) or Central Bank is monetize to nothingness. Remember, if retirement or any saving is not quadruple in last 5 year, it is not keep up with Fed Reserve money base. When money begin to exit shadow bank system (descend from Bank-o-sphere™), it is deflate proportional to amount in ratio (1:4 or 20%). If can afford gold, gold, if cannot, then silver, but Boris is recommend copper.

Also remember, any thing not in hand or mattress is subject to bail-in haircut.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:44 | Link to Comment hairball48
hairball48's picture

Exactly!!!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:49 | Link to Comment ronaldawg
ronaldawg's picture

HA HA HA HA - screw you union scumbags.

Can't wait until it happens to the California Highway Patrol and every retired police chief, prison guard, school administrator and teacher in California. 

You thought you could steal from the people of the state of California by buying the politicians in our state with your union dues  - the joke is on you scumbags.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Screw all the people in the world that live on stolen money.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Q: How many bankster is take to screw incandescent bulb?

A: None,... is too busy screw general population.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:22 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Bankers wouldn't be banksters without government.

Government has been screwing the public for many thousands of years. It is the problem.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:47 | Link to Comment Keyser
Keyser's picture

The ironic part is that the governments of the world have been screwing the people on behalf of the banks. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

No irony, political class from time memorial is do bankster class bidding. Napoleon, Kaiser, Hitler, Lenin, Wilson, is all answer to bankster, even if crazy S.O.B.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Does this include the banks who sell them crooked interest rate swaps, etc? Is Goldman et al going to get their returns cut in like manner to the pensioners?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 17:47 | Link to Comment X_mloclaM
X_mloclaM's picture

Hey, to you, no offense. Your just the 3millionth, so...

IRS is a contract between two people. You would outlaw the ability to contract?

Is it no the idea of centally backing these that is unpalatable, let bankers do whatever... if they fail, they fail.

 

Oh and enough with the bullshit over derivatives "making" us bail people out again.

ROFLCOPTER ZH sounds like a bunch of fucking EZ beauracrats

You guys likely love the Tobin tax as well.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 17:57 | Link to Comment starfcker
starfcker's picture

No , it's not a contract between two people. it's a contract between organized crime (the bank) and some affirmative action hire. why should that be considered a contract?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 18:49 | Link to Comment N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

And thugs with guns to enforce it's will.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:25 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Me too--some Detroit people probably don't deserve this, but Kali needs it good and hard, all of them there.  These people getting $1M retirements are so full of crap!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:25 | Link to Comment americanreality
americanreality's picture

You probably meant "leeches".  I won't call you a fucking idiot.  It doesn't help anything and would make me look like I have emotional/anger issues. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:36 | Link to Comment BigRedRider
BigRedRider's picture

I frown on anyone who can't spell a word more than one way. ---Mark Twain

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 21:50 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

There's a werd for this, have a thousand...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:24 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

They need fresh pockets to pick in Detroit. What disturbs me the most about articles like the one above is that the politicians who made those public union contracts are never held responsible for what they did.

One day the mayor of Scranton [Scranton had billed itself as Pennsylvania's Progressive City] announced that all public employees would be reduced to minimum wage because the city could no longer pay their exhorbitant wages nor contribute to their pension funds. Just like that. No one bothered to review the contracts and figure out who was it that made all of those very expensive contracts and why weren't they held accountable.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:36 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

From what I remember Scranton was a big mob town.  Nobody wanted to look that deep into the contracts.
I would be happy if they could actually fix I-81.  That seems to be a generational project.

pods 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:53 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Scranton... hmmmm, is anything good to come from Scranton?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

The only thing going for Scranton is it's not in New Jersey

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:58 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

<-- Scranton - Uncle Joe "Gaff" Biden

<-- New Jersey - Jon "I just put your money here, oops is gone!" Corsine

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:04 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

DP

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:06 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

Scranton: def: the space between scrotum and asshole.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 05:20 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

wait..  no private money to fix roads??? then I guess we dont need them..  when there is a reason to do business on it, there sure will be someone to make or fix a road if worth it to them

 

 

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:58 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

But but the Dow is at all time highs.....

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:29 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

you have it backwards. it looks like a "socialist" problem ("good" pensions - badly funded) that "liberalism" is "solving" (classically it's default). of course if other gov funds are used to bail out, then it's socialism again

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:50 | Link to Comment RonBurgundy
RonBurgundy's picture

Nope, its a liberal problem (ie. liberals handing out unexamined promises to unions) which "socialism" is solving. Socialism's first move, proceeding from Hegel's assault on language, is to deny the plain meaning of laws which have been written down, making everything, including statute and contract, interpretable according to what will benefit the "society".

Here the contractual obligations that the city and its institutions entered into under law, are being abrogated because some unelected official says its necessary. 

You may not like the unions (I don't either) but cutting down the trees of law in an effort, retroactively, to get at the politicians who pandered to them, is just going to make is more difficult when leviathan turns on the rest of us and starts asserting eminent domain to get at your private property.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:22 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

interestingly, I like unions. good unions, though, of the kind you can find in the eurozone. some of the German ones are seriously sane. and I listened to various libertarians like Judge Napolitano who have a similar view on them. for some kinds of labour unions make sense

so simplified you are telling me that cutting pensions of what would be the backbone of a socialist party (the city/state employees) here would be a... socialist move?

perhaps you are just playing with the words, i.e. "liberal handing out of unexamined promises to unions", to which I'd say that a good liberal promise would have been to fund them properly in a scheme similar to that most-liberal-of-all, the 401(k) - which is too liberal for most eurozoner's tastes, btw (and get's here on this page enough comments about it's problems)

there is quality to be found in all three main political thrusts, liberalism, conservativism and socialism. I read here on ZH that the only socialist in the US Congress is asking the NSA very pointed questions, for example. yet again: the typical socialist solution would be bailing those pensions out. by making more debt, or devaluing the currency, or new taxes on the rich, or whatever. the liberal and/or conservative solution is to cut

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:03 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I have no problem with a fool that wants a particular form of government, but why does every one of them want to force it on all others?

Do they think that their beliefs are better than all others? That their beliefs are correct for everyone?

The belief systems that promoted the survival of a particular group in the past are no longer viable in a modern technological world. They, being an evolutionary adaptation, developed under different conditions.

The hunter-gatherer and pharaonic people of the world need to leave the freedom people alone.

Just fuck yourselves up, not everyone else.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:47 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

why? You gave the answer yourself: "The belief systems that promoted the survival of a particular group in the past"

Do you have any proof that gov in any form isn't still needed for... survival? for example to keep other predatory govs at bay?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:49 | Link to Comment Agstacker
Agstacker's picture

Scab.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:40 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

So, Ghordius, your logic is that we need predators to protect us from .... other predators.

How can you fail to see the irony, and futility, inherent in that claim?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:17 | Link to Comment N2OJoe
N2OJoe's picture

It makes perfect sense! For example:

If I am drowning in debt and about to go bankrupt, what is the most logical solution to my problem? MOAR DEBT!

So Ghordy, when are you running for your second term?

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 03:42 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

only because I'm pointing out that even the most individualistic persons still profit from the "perks" given by their groups, it does not mean that I subscribe to the madness of your particular group think

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 23:31 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Sure, and everyone benefited from the existence of bacteria, and they still do.

I'm not arguing that those cultural adaptations didn't work in those societies - they were part of our evolutionary past.

I'm saying they DON'T WORK NOW.

And understand that I don't care what totalitarian form of government you want, I want no part of it.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 03:44 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

akak, "my logic" runs like this: we are predators. not necessarily as individuals, but as groups

our whole civilization was born out of the conflict between wandering and sedentary groups

and I suspect you are intellectually honest enough to glimpse what I mean

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 04:21 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Funny, I don't feel like a predator. 

Nor have I ever lived like one.  Nor, for that matter, has anyone whom I personally know.

I suggest that you might want to reassess your assumptions, which to me seem deeply cynical and erroneous.

 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 12:11 | Link to Comment Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

akak, you don't have to feel like a predator in order to be perceived as one - through the membership to a group that is perceived as or does indeed predate on others

you and I are members of various groups, including "The West". tell me there aren't people that perceive us as predators, through various means and for several reasons

your access to certain resources? certain perks? in how many territories can you travel safely thanks to your passport, a "membership card" for itself?

perhaps you have never lived like one. directly. yet I should not have to mention oil to a "Peak-Oil" proponent. what would have been the price of the gas you consumed up to now without the whole imperial setup?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:26 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

It's never been a viable system in the US--it was all just vote buying and "you'll be gone, I'll be gone" type politics.  They knew this would blow up...someday, but by then the perpetrators would be long gone and the rank and file would be left as bagholders.  This is what all of modern finance and politics seems to be about--identifying bagholders.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:29 | Link to Comment sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

Are you talking about union contracts, or social security or medicare here?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 21:55 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"Or??"  Why not "And?"

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:38 | Link to Comment RonBurgundy
RonBurgundy's picture

The typical socialist solution is going to bailing this people out--with more extra-legal programs like obamacare, reinterpretation of standards and benefits for SNAP. . . . its just that unlike contracts entered into, which have the force of law behind them, and the force of law to help interpret them, it'll be open to whatever the socialists want to impose.

Socialism is objectionable not just because of the politics and arrogance of its adherents, but because Law, Private Property, Rights, and everything else is now variously interpretable based on the good for society. Obama styles his socialism a kind of "pragmatism" 

Remember, though, that "pragmatism" under proponents like James and Dewey had exactly the same disdain for objective understandings of law, rights and morality as did socialism.

This is exactly the precedent being laid here--that despite the plain meaning of contracts entered into that those contractual obligations can be broken because of "necessity." 

If the city were really bankrupt, payments to creditors (bondholders) would be the first to be negated, in full, because they are 1) speculative, and 2) have plenty of precedent for how to impair them. But these pension plans are part of compensation packages which were agreed to and then abrogated with no warning, unlike bondholders.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:44 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Perhaps you could elaborate on just what constitutes a "good" union. Now, I know something about unions of various stripes. I was a journeyman until I went into business for myself and it wasn't the trade I was in. My father's side of the family were union, journeymen and craftsmen. It was not a right-to-work state. I had uncles and cousins that worked in the auto industry and in appliance factories.

I am very familiar with the costs involved in the US for a union vs. non-union shop. I made a good living for a number of years providing construction cost estimates (material and labor) for projects ranging in the tens of thousands to tens of millions $US. I am very familiar with the relative labor efficiency factors used for each respective type of organization, union or non.

As an non-union apprentice I worked on many federal and state Davis-Bacon projects and living at the time in a right-to-work state, I also worked on mixed crew projects, meaning union & non-union, sometimes even the same trade, on the site at the same time.

I could find no merit in joining a union.

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:23 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

cutting down the trees of law in an effort, retroactively, to get at the politicians who pandered to them, is just going to make is more difficult when leviathan turns on the rest of us and starts asserting eminent domain to get at your private property.

I would argue that theft of private property is already occuring, so this is a non-starter. The Law was circumvented by originally consenting to theft. Neither degree of difficulty, nor The Law, will inhibit an entity with a monopoly on coercion and all the guns, which is populated by the biggest criminal class on the planet, and which has proven that it cannot obey the law.

Laws only keep the honest people honest. If people working for government were honest, productive individuals, they would not need to work for an entity with all the guns, and a monopoly on coercion; they would be producing in the free market and engaging in voluntary exchange.

Aside from that, bankruptcy is also The Law.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:12 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

+1

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:38 | Link to Comment Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

"I would argue that theft of private property is already occuring"

Indeed good sir, for those relatively less familiar:

1.  If you have a mortgage on your house, you are not a "homeowner".  The owner is the bank, until you pay it off.  

2.  From there, you serve at the pleasure of your local authority, who determines what rate of tax you pay in order to continue to maintain a clean claim on your property.  

Now consider the bubble and subsequent collapse of the housing market, and who took possession of the foreclosed property, which they will now gladly rent out to you.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:39 | Link to Comment TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

I don't think I follow your logic.  The EM is not taking anything from private citizens.  He's just saying they aren't going to get more of the stuff they have gotten.  This is nothing like eminent domain.

Regardless of that, so what if there is a contract or a law.  The money is gone.  What is to be done?  Do you suggest a federal bailout where you come and take my stuff to give to them?  I don't think that will work out very well for anyone. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:04 | Link to Comment Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

Fine.....but there's NO MONEY with which to pay them.  Simple as that.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:45 | Link to Comment Oquities
Oquities's picture

crime rate will rise proportional to pension cuts approved by judge.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:14 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

Despite its dwindling population, Detroit remains one of the murder capitals of the US. At one time Detroit had the most expensive public schools in the nation in terms of money spent per pupil. Those graduates now make up the adult population of Detroit who, by way of a recent study, were found to be functionally illiterate. How could so much go so wrong in a city that was once was regarded as the crowning jewel in the Great Lakes region. It defies all logic.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:32 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

I had not read that Detroit was any kind of crown jewel of education.  Quite the opposite--they never made big investments in education because they were just riding on the auto industry providing factory jobs. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 12:09 | Link to Comment jerry_theking_lawler
jerry_theking_lawler's picture

What are these 'investments' you speak of.....

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 17:12 | Link to Comment John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

How could it happen?  You must examine the dark side of humanity-both literally & figuratively!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:06 | Link to Comment Rafferty
Rafferty's picture

It defies logic only if you've taken the blue pill.  The reason is that the city is 95% black.  QED.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:57 | Link to Comment tempo
tempo's picture

Many retirees may now be working for surrounding cities which are booming.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 21:45 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Found picture for famous fearless leader who will like for you... :>D

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:13 | Link to Comment Rubbish
Rubbish's picture

Bring on 100% inflation and we can just crush these moochers. Wheeee, we promised them the world and now we give them food lines.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:18 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Good news is Detroit City Pensioner is only lose 20% of value store because 2008 to 2014, Fed M2 balance increase from $800B to $4T before lose. So 2008 is lose first 80%, now only 20% is lose. Okay, is not so good news, but everyone else is also lose 80% in same duration of time, so misery is love good company!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:14 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

BA, have you ever consisered applying for the position of White House spokesman/spokeswoman/spokesperson/spokesRussian?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:49 | Link to Comment KickIce
KickIce's picture

Barry no like Boris since he celebrate Putin manliness and laugh at Obama picture in mom jeans.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:19 | Link to Comment y3maxx
y3maxx's picture

freezes pension plans for all non-uniform employees ...Second step... Freezes Pension Plans for all UNIFORM EMPLOYEES.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:20 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Step three is haircut for all! Boris long on barbershop supply industry.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:31 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

There are so few of those left it probably wouldn't matter. The average wait time for a 911 call to be answered is 58 minutes in Detroit. Firefighters have a hard time putting out fires because so many of the hose access points are broken. Their overall crime solving is 8% which means 92% of all crimes go unsolved. This is why the new mayor supports the citizen's arming themselves and forming their own block old-fashioned fire brigade.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:53 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Advantage of high crime rate is ride train, at least 2 criminal in train car and is fight each other while try to rob you. Okay, maybe not so advantage, but interesting theory.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:25 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

High crime leads to many Broken Windows

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 17:52 | Link to Comment sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

Paul Krugman read this and  just got an erection.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:11 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Sounds like this is effecting only future plans. What about current plans? The baby has fallen in the well, Kevyn. The city is broke and unless the Chinese come in en masse, there is no taxbase to pay current pension liabilities. Why is he dancing around the issue?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:24 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Is sound like new plan is personal account (define contribution = define benefit) without inflation adjustment and old style pension account is freeze. This is socialism in practice - many promise made by political class, but sad day when is run out of other people money.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:36 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

But then personal account is bail-in; you lose balance but is get colorful Patriot Bond Treasury and signed photo Glorious Obama.

Or if save money like busy ant, you have security social payment reduced is means test.

Indolent grasshopper is get more is make fair.

Or is get what promised, but find 5 pound loaf Russian Black bread cost 50 dollars.

Is big sandwich shit, soon is take bite.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 22:03 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

You mean our fearless leader??

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:25 | Link to Comment johnconnor
johnconnor's picture

I always wondered why is totally okay to rape future genarations but nobody can't touch the boomers....

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:30 | Link to Comment DOT
DOT's picture

Please review the last 20yrs.

Also, nobody doesn't like Sara Lee.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:55 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is not doesn't like Sara Lee.

(What is "Sara Lee"?)

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:36 | Link to Comment americanreality
americanreality's picture

There seems to be an inverse relationship between the number of your posts and the level of humor they contain.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:33 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Must be that new math.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:33 | Link to Comment Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Only one of those two groups can vote.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Boris is hear in Amerika, convict, undocument alien, and cadaver can vote...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:19 | Link to Comment RSloane
RSloane's picture

All true, we are a leading 'force' in democracy throughout the world!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:45 | Link to Comment The Heart
The Heart's picture

Soon Boris, all cadavers in the whole world will vote. Only in America can the vote be electronically hacked and changed to place any old trash can into office. Heck they can even make you president!

The sad truth is Boris, it all does not matter anyways. They will not let the Russian tell the japanes how to fix the fukushima Extinction Level Event.

Canadian Medical Association Journal Blasts Japanese Government: "Culture of Coverup" Exposing Japanese Citizens to "Unconscionable" Radiation Risk:

http://mr-absentia.soup.io/post/385488541/Canadian-Medical-Association-J...

Skeena Sockeye Fishery Closed Due to Low Returns:

http://ospreysteelheadnews.blogspot.com/...ue-to.html

Sockeye Fisheries Closed Following Historic Lows In Skeena River, B.C.:

 http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/12/...44088.html

(SitNews) Thorne Bay, Alaska – Due to a low sockeye return, the US Forest Service Thorne Bay District Ranger is acting immediately to protect sockeye salmon in the Hatchery Creek drainage on Prince of Wales Island:

http://www.sitnews.us/0613News/062713/06...losed.html

Diseased Alaska seals tested for radiation:

http://www.wikileaks-forum.com/animal-ri...1#msg54931

"There was not one of the 28 days on that portion of the trip when we didn't catch a good-sized fish to cook up and eat with some rice," Macfadyen recalled. But this time, on that whole long leg of sea journey, the total catch was two. No fish. No birds. Hardly a sign of life at all.":

 http://www.theherald.com.au/story/184843...is-broken/

Dead Sea Creatures Cover 98% of Ocean Floor Off California Coast; Up From 1% before Fukushima:

http://thedailyblogreport.wordpress.com/2014/01/05/dead-sea-creatures-co...

Japanese Senator: “The Path That Japan Is Taking Is The Recreation Of A Fascist State”

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/11/fukushima-radiation-will-hit-fish...

Japanese cars banned in Russia:

http://japandailypress.com/russia-bans-1...n-0641885/

Japanese Government Raises Severity Rating of Fukushima Leak:

http://ifclmedia.com/feeds/?p=9579

TV: “Massive radioactivity release” at Fukushima going on for almost 3 years now; Visible steam “just the tip of the iceberg” — NHK: Containment vessels are ‘broken’:

http://enenews.com/nhk-containment-vessels-are-broken-at-fukushima-plant...

BIG RADIATION COVERAGE ON THE ALEX JONES SHOW RIGHT NOW!!!

Listen to the repeat later.

http://www.infowars.com/listen-on-the-internet/

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:40 | Link to Comment TheInfoman
TheInfoman's picture

That's easy.  Future generations can't vote or give money to campaign funds.  Boomers can do both.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Government is all about wealth redistribution.

If you support government, you are the problem.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:35 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Please indicate on the doll where the boomers touched you.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 22:05 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:39 | Link to Comment PeterLemonJello
PeterLemonJello's picture

He's actually not. There are proceedings and negotiations continuing on the shortfall of pension funding. They are estimating, as of now, as 12 - 18% haircut on future pension benefits and a complete wipe out of the pensioner health care, outside of a small stipend. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:04 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

Name on top of Pension Benefit Form... Ben Dover

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:33 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Plus, there is mention of non-vested getting the boot.  I don't know what the vesting schedule is - but there will be many who are already in the system but too short a period of time and won't even get the peanuts that are left over.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:12 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

I am sure that this will go over quite well in Detroit.

Maybe they are just prepaing them for their new benevolent Chinese overlords?

This is coming in the future to ALL pensions.  There isn't a single one that will survive the current climate.  They either bleed money in ZIRP being invested in bonds, or get rules changed and reach for yield and get burned by the next crash in the markets.  Nevermind the continuing escalation of muni's going broke.

There is no way out of this.  Toss in an extra $5k a year for health "insurance" and 2014 is setting up to be a banner year.

pods

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:16 | Link to Comment jcaz
jcaz's picture

Old-World pensions- next to Social Security, the ultimate Ponzis.....  Buh-bye, welcome to the joys of market risk.....

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:35 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Is that a joke?  I thought "market risk" had become an oxymoron.  Kinda like "military intelligence".

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:43 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

RE

There is no way out of this.

Sure there is.  It's called, "Self-immolation"

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:57 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

If you like your pension, you can keep your pension.

Hopefully Chicago is next then those juciy Calif pension then NY, NJ.  Bring it.  These people voted for this.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:14 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

But.....but.....I heard the PBGC was baile.....uh....made whole two years ago and is just fine.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:36 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

They can all survive and pay out 100% if we hyperinflate!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:47 | Link to Comment hairball48
hairball48's picture

"I am sure that this will go over quite well in Detroit."

Maybe they'll burn Detroit...again, or what's left of it.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Kind of like what they did to IBM pensioners!

EDIT:  I didn't know Gerstner/Palmisano surfed ZH.  FUCK YOU!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Gromit
Gromit's picture

Once again "vested" pensioners are untouchable.

Why should an aristocracy of 60s 70s and 80s scoop the pot?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:22 | Link to Comment Chartsky
Chartsky's picture

Untouchable?  They've been relegated -- already -- to the lowest status possible . . . unsecured creditors . . . the very last to get paid anything and pennies on their dollars, if even that.

It won't be long before the first domino falls and pensioners get wiped-out.  Then it's precedent and they'll start falling across the country.  They'll have truly "untouchable" and un-elected Federal Bankruptcy Judges who are notorious for "following orders" to balme.  The politicians will wring their hands in despair, but, "What can be done?  The Court has ruled . . ."

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Gromit
Gromit's picture

The "vested ones" are receiving their monthly pensions without reduction.

Why do the 40s and 50s tolerate this?

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:35 | Link to Comment Yikes
Yikes's picture

All I would say is the existing pensioners need to have skin in the game.  If they don't, America is going to see an excelerated run of public employees clawing over each other to get their retirement papers into the Human Resources department ASAP. 

They understand the lesson of the Titanic - Get to the life raft first.

This of course, will, in turn, accelerate the crash of the public pension system.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:43 | Link to Comment Gromit
Gromit's picture

The tell is when the senior rats commute their pensions in exchange for a lump sum for a "family emergency".

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Anyone with a brain that has the option to cash their pension out today BETTER FUCKING GET ON THAT GRAVY TRAIN!

 

The next stop will be the elimination of the lumpsum option for pensions right before they dump the pension in the Fed's (our) lap. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:37 | Link to Comment americanreality
americanreality's picture

Excelerated? Wow.  Are you a product of Detroit Public Schools?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:18 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Baby it's cold outside.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Boris Alatovkrap
Boris Alatovkrap's picture

It is suck to be pensioner of bankrupt scam.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

It is really suck if you are not yet vested.

Poof.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

I predicted this when Obama was selected by the overlords in 2008.  I predicted a implosion like the old USSR.  Pensioners, seniors and baby boomers would be screwed - hard.  The young would survive because they could at least eventually find jobs that would readjust to inflation. 

In the old USSR, the young did not have crushing student loans.  So American young people will sruvive but will be mostly debt slaves.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

You can check out Dmitri Orlov for a full picture of Russia post-collapse. The USSR also had folks just continuing to live in their apartments, unlike the crushing mortgage debt, student debt, loss of employment, loss of unemployment benefits, etc. Plus the whole mindset of the avg person here in America (minus the immigrants) haven't been to war, lived in displaced person camps, really scraped by on practically nothing, etc. There will be a sea change in a lot of peoples' viewpoint and what constitute true needs. Of course, a lot of people will die from alcohol, suicide, lack of health care as a result in the wake of this.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:41 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

My mother worked for MetLife and had a pension there.  To get out from under that obligation, MetLife just sold itself or whatever and became MetraHealth and blew off most of their pension obligations in one fell swoop, then they did it again  by getting another new name and fully absolved themselves of nearly 100% of their obligations to employees.  I think they're back to MetLife again, but bang-zoom! no pensions!  This was in the late 80s or early 90s.  It's nothing new.  It's called having MBAs running the show, they all learned the same exact playbook.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:18 | Link to Comment roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

You are spoiling the "boomer" rage by the wingers here. Don't you know, "boomers" are the Golden ones.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:50 | Link to Comment F em all but 6
F em all but 6's picture

Pensioner is of no concern to Stalinist regime no? Boris need to look at history for example of need to look forewad. East Germany gives clue. Build  wall between Michigan and Detroit. Confiscate all to State and distribute evenly according to need. Pensioner now belong to State. Many dogs starving so complaining pensioners is now food for dogs. Is humane way to save canine population. Kim Jong Ill genious.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:33 | Link to Comment MeMongo
MeMongo's picture

Indeed!

AKA, "It's so cold in the D"

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Spungo
Spungo's picture

Why can't I squeeze more blood out of this rock?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:35 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Uuuhhh, that's not a rock.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:23 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

"...and creates a new 401(k)-style defined contribution retirement plan for existing and future city workers..."

Effectively forcing citizen's savings into the equity casino, and which in the not-too-distant-future will be stolen just like the pension funds were.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:27 | Link to Comment Chartsky
Chartsky's picture

Exactly!

They tried it under Bush II and now will impose it by fiat under the guise of "bankruptcy."

Just watch all the crap that comes out of this as precedent.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:27 | Link to Comment krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

 'You're fucked if you do and fucked if you don't.'  Ben Dover

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:59 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

lol

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:12 | Link to Comment Hongcha
Hongcha's picture

Yes ebworthen; and the new 401(k) offering perhaps at best (3) long-only funds.  This is imho the most important news article of the new year.  The majority of city managers across the United States will be watching this move very closely ... and how it goes down and if it stays down, so to speak.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:42 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

The great thing about equities is that it is pre-stolen the moment you "invest" so no need to "steal it later."

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Rising Sun
Rising Sun's picture

Another lesson is socialism.

 

The moral of the story is that all pensions are ponzi schemes and guess what Detroit?????  Madoff has left the building.

 

Get off your overpaid, underworked fat fucking asses and get a minimum wage job like the rest of the world.

 

If that doesn't suit you, then you can fuck off and die in a ditch - no one gives a fuck.

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:34 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

The moral of the story is that all pensions are ponzi schemes....another lesson in socialism

 

so it appears, is your Banking system, your multinational corporate system (think GM), your Military Industrial Complex is the biggest socialist rentier system in the world 

 

what's your point?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:53 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Thanks for that.

We're beyond the old definitions that calcify the subservient masses.

We need new terminology for the digitized robber-barons and carpetbaggers of the cruel 21st century.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:41 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

While I enjoy that sentiment, I will argue that a lot people went into public service (teachers) and got paid very little in direct wages but had the promise of a decent retirement.  We should not reneg on those promises.  There are hard-working public employees, just not all of them, obviously.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:38 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

Promises, much less past promises, are utterly irrelevant.

"We" did not make those promises, short-sighted and corrupt GOVERNMENTS made those promises, and as the money to make them good simply does not exist, and will not exist, those promises are worth exactly the same as every other promise any government ever makes: precisely nothing.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:45 | Link to Comment sunnyside
sunnyside's picture

Who is we?  The money is simply not there that they were promised.  They were lied to.  Life sucks sometimes and there are no absolute guarantees except that one day you will die.  That is it.  I'm truly sorrry for the honerable people, but again, they were lied to, and the sooner everyone wakes up to it and says OK, what is next (whether that be go back to work, move in with the kids or start shooting everyone from the water tower), things can move forward.  Dwelling on the facts isn't going to change them.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:36 | Link to Comment NIHILIST CIPHER
NIHILIST CIPHER's picture

Maybe the retirees can get a job with Nestle's loading tankers full of water to be sold in China. That has been going on for some time now and the lake is at it's lowest level ever recorded. TPTB want all those folks out of Detroit and Highland Park so they can rape the natural resources. Chinese bought up mucho property there already.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:03 | Link to Comment Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Not lowest, but close.

 

http://www.glerl.noaa.gov/data/now/wlevels/plots/mic_lvl.gif

 

It's the only way to steal enough Great Lakes water - in a tanker. Maybe we can get the unemployed to dig massive tunnels from the Great Lakes to the West and South to speed up the drain.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Sorry pensioners, the only thing you had was a CONtract......

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:27 | Link to Comment samsara
samsara's picture

Great picture in the thumbnail of Frozone from The Incredibles

"Honey,  WHERE is my Super Suit ?..."

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:46 | Link to Comment Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

"I, uh, put it away."

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:31 | Link to Comment stateside
stateside's picture

Our company did this in 2009.  What took them so long?

 

stateside

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:30 | Link to Comment quasimodo
quasimodo's picture

Que the "Rev" jackass and sharpie in 5..4..3..2..1...

Oops, wrong city , my bad. Wrong color in upper mgmt there.

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:33 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for the Detroit public union pensioners and their union leaders who ran their own city into the ground for 40 years.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kylesmith/2013/02/21/detroit-gave-unions-key...

 

 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 17:28 | Link to Comment Freddie
Freddie's picture

It's the whole ***king attitude of the Obama free phone voter mentality that these unions and Detroit residents have.  I wants that free shit and I deserve it and I will use white guilt to get it.

Detroit is really staggering to see a city just die.   401-K plans for the current workers?  Give me a break.   There is no tax base for 401-K plans.   The city will continue to shrink and die.  

Bulldoze and turn it into prarie.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:42 | Link to Comment icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I told you guys... they ain't going to get their 16%.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:45 | Link to Comment amadeusb4
amadeusb4's picture

Meanwhile, on Wallstreet, execs at the largest banks get $90 BILLION in BONUSES! when estimates show that they get about $83 BILLION in federal subsidies.

Sounds to me like Wallstreet just drank Detroit pensioners' milkshake.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:08 | Link to Comment Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

Sounds like we need to dose those shakes with a little cyanide...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:47 | Link to Comment aerojet
aerojet's picture

Yes, this is the real story here--how Wall Street nearly imploded the US economy in 2008, got bailed out, and the key insiders are now living unbelievably grand lifestyles while the rest of the country is fighting off rats for a hunk of stale bread.  And yet the American people have not lifted a finger to resolve this issue.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:57 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

They did not cut their pensions..just the annual increases....so they still get paid their one or two pensions that they played to get into the game....only deserving one...but they cheated the system to get the other one....and how many uniforms are out there..probably most of the pensions....why are they better?????

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:03 | Link to Comment Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Why do the guys in costumes always get protected ???.....One day soon, that's going to be dangerous to their health. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:03 | Link to Comment wombats
wombats's picture

So this only applies to "NON-UNIFORM" workers?  I guess you have to keep the hired guns and enforcers happy.  The rest of the great unwashed masses can all fend for themselves.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:05 | Link to Comment Fix-ItSilly
Fix-ItSilly's picture

This is a very sensible, respectful move because it makes sure that those receiving pensions now are not doing so at the expense of those now paying into an insolvent plan (and who will be left holding an empty bag).  Wimpy's "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today" should not be the Union's and Government's continuing stand today.

 

It is time Govt stopped ripping of the taxpayer by telling us these pensions are being contemporaneously paid for as they should be.  It is time Govt stopped over-promising future compensation to Govt workers (healthcare during retirement and pensions) by deceiving the taxpayer today. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:09 | Link to Comment Spumoni
Spumoni's picture

I don't know, Smoke...is ANYTHING enough to get Amerikaans off their asses and , er...ah...protesting (not quite the word I'm looking for)? I am consistently stunned by the no- difference between what makes an Egyptian student stand in front of a bullet and what makes a US taxpayer yawn. 

Then again, last time I drove away from Detroit Airport (on the aptly/sarc named Grand Avenue), it looked a lot like downtown Baghdad not so long ago.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:15 | Link to Comment NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Given the current temperatures in Detroit, I would say just about everything is frozen...

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!