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Standpoint Research Discovers Capitalism, Downgrades Apple For "Moral Reasons"

Tyler Durden's picture


Looks like Standpoint Research, whoever they are, threw in the towel on waiting for the "soft dollar" tsunami to wash over its hard-hitting operations, and decided to make headlines the old-fashioned way - with what is an early contender in the category for "dumbest research note of the year", this one bashing Apple because, get this, it is profitable.

"For Apple Computers to pay their workers $2 an hour while they have $150 billion in the bank is nothing short of obscene. They have workers who are doing back-breaking and eye-burning work in depressed states of mind and in many instances have already committed suicide. Instead of treating their employees like human beings, they are treated like animals. If it were not for their employees, Apple would not be where it is today. But instead of giving these people a better life, they give these people the bare minimum and defend this action with the argument that the wage is higher than the average there and in-line with what their competitors are paying."

Uhm, because it's "unfair?" In other words, after looking under every nook and cranny, Standpoint "Research" finally discovered capitalism. Congratulations. 

H/t streetinsider


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Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:56 | 4303962 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Oh wow, oh wow, oh wow - Steve Jobs

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:16 | 4303999 RSloane
RSloane's picture

But but......Steve Jobs was so cool in his black turtlenecks and jeans. Apple product lovers will attest to this!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:15 | 4304132 SoundMoney45
SoundMoney45's picture

Apple no different from any other company with manufacturing in China, Vietnam, Indonesia or other places where workers are paid subsistence wages.  Previously import tariff's protected these workers from exploitation.  If we tax these imports for the wage difference, the companies will pay the workers.  Are starting to understand why "free trade" enables exploitation of workers?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:32 | 4304170 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

amerikan soda jerks will soon be making $15 an hour.  why do the folks who make our computers make $2?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:49 | 4304560 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

It is all about supply and demand. Apparently there are lots of Chinese workers willing to work for $2 an hour. If no one applied, Foxconn would have to raise the hourly wage to get the workers they need.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:35 | 4304719 jbvtme
jbvtme's picture

50 million amerikans on food stamps. 20 percent unemployment. sounds like the supply of "workers" exceeds the demand.  no?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:02 | 4305798 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

Apple is one of the biggest scams ever - right up there with "Do No Evil" Google - the Big Brother we've all heard was coming. Both are clearly in the back pocket of the Military / Industrial / Orwellian / Oligarch Complex (MIO2C).


Their software is a straight line to NSA. For all you know, their hardware is hardwired to the NSA too. I prohibited any of my family from owning anything Apple - they are absolutely without integrity.


And the explotation of thier workers so that they can live (at  the top of the corporate food chain) obscenely overindulgent lives, just adds to the reasons to shun anything Apple.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:46 | 4304211 Luapnor
Luapnor's picture

The real people being exploited are the out of work college students who will pay $500 for an iphone that is worth maybe $99...   Where is the outrage for them? 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:11 | 4304255 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Hanging on the $20.00 Go phone display at Walmart.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:26 | 4304289 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Golly, I wonder who will ever shed a tear or raise a tremulous cry for the American worker?

Bueller? Bueller? Anyone?

Can't wait for the final burn. Fire ... cleanses ...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:24 | 4304291 pods
pods's picture

I wonder if the movie Elysium is going to be big in China?

We watched it last night and thought about how if you look at it as a moneychangers vs the rest of us we are there.

But it will work on so many levels, certainly the guy who got poisoned by hexane wiping iPhone screens would see the meaning a lot more clearer than we do.

Just a fucked up world we live in all around.  


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 17:43 | 4305598 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Ya, I noticed too.
Not just that the 'hero' was bad-ass in what he pulled off but that he did stumble a lot, didn't go all-in all at once to be a hero and (spoiler alert) got his ass killed to do the right thing.
THAT is what scares the elites most, that people will be willing to get killed to get even.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 18:57 | 4305783 MarsInScorpio
MarsInScorpio's picture

You got it.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:56 | 4304386 PT
PT's picture

SM45:  Exactly.

Tell me again, where are all the other computers / phones made?  What are their workers paid? 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:07 | 4308604 fallout11
fallout11's picture

That giant sucking sound that Ross Perot used to talk about.....was the race to the bottom of wage and regulator arbitrage known as flat-earth globalism.  Rather than raising all boats (the whole world cannot live like Americans), it simply drags everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
Tariffs (customs duties) also once funded much of the US federal government, in the decades years prior to the income tax. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:30 | 4305148 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

And, One More Thing ...

Apple builds machines that work, with the software they produce, and no company that I am aware of has done more to advance the state of personal computing than the creators of Apple - Jobs, Wozniak, Andy Hertzfeld, Jeff Raskin and the rest of the Lisa / Mac teams.

The machines ran software out of the box, never bluescreened, and rarely crashed.  Unless one did not save, little data was ever lost. A brother ran a typesetting business on a Lisa for five years, then selling the antique a couple of years ago for over $10k.  Been in dry storage since '93 but it booted from the 20 meg hard drive.

He traded up to an Intel Imac, however they spell it, and runs Linux and MacOS in seperate boot partitions when something must be done in Open Office.  And it just works.  Photoshop, Word, Firefox, Opera, taxes, spreadsheets, movies, and of course, ZH.

Says he could run Windoze 5, 6, 7, 8, whatever, and pretty soon would be reminded of the blue screen of death, freezes, shitty OS and software still relying on the registry.  Most fuckwads that bash apple can't afford one and have not enjoyed the OS.  Baby Linux machine.

Don't own apple stock anymore, wish I had kept some.

Sigh ...  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 17:41 | 4305593 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

When it comes to the age-old foundations of computers, no: the Amiga and even before it (very primitive) the C64. Apple was in the dust, as were IBM PC's, when Amigas were rendering amazing graphics for video games & even a TV show (Babylon V)

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:19 | 4304015 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Cue burning Zeppelin crashing down from above. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:54 | 4303966 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

Fuck Apple.



Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:01 | 4303972 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



There's an app for that.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:10 | 4303989 CH1
CH1's picture

Commerce... capitalism... is about cooperation (try to build something without it!), not screwing everyone you can.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:10 | 4304101 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

It's about corporation.

Get real.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:20 | 4304667 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

Is that the progressive version of capitalism to which you are referring?  Real honest capitalism would make it hard for corporations since they wouldn't have all the advantages entailed by favorable government treatment.

Oh well, go get your socialism.  You deserve it.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:00 | 4311368 Infnordz
Infnordz's picture

Indeed; the modern commercial corporation is the creation of government (a state corporation), with fraudulent personhood due the corrupt legal profession, and much government subsidy, both financial and regulatory.

All the above corruptions were embodied in Abraham Lincoln both before and while he was US President, and the old Whigs and the newly created US Republican (Corporatist) party, he came from.  The US Democrat party later joined the Corporatist corruption with more of a Socialist bent.  It is no surprise that this fake personhood of corporation was fraudulent formalised in the US by the corrupt legal profession abusing, I assume Republican (hypocritical anti-Negro), ex-slave rights law.

This thing we call Globalisation is not a free market, that is an illusion because of all the legal corruption and Corporatist pillaging attached, so it cannot be Capitalism, despite what some Nordic 'Capitalist' commentator fool said.  The books "The Corporation" and "The Shock Doctrine" make this very clear!

The creation of the Federal Reserve was a key factor in allowing this corruption to explode, because Corporatism was no longer kept in check by finite real money.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:03 | 4303978 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Fuck Apple again.  And glad to see laptop makers will soon start installing Android OS along side Microshit 8 cause it's sucks.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:58 | 4304074 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

I tried, and had to go to the hospital when I tried penetrating it.  I would advise apple pies.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 08:57 | 4303969 e.blair
e.blair's picture

Tyler, Apple is obscene.  And certainly nothing in your often incoherent ideology proves otherwise.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:30 | 4304030 jcaz
jcaz's picture

"Incoherent idealogy"....   What?   Provide ONE example of what you're babbling about, please.  

Tyler is nothing but direct.   Unless you're just confused in general.....

Another psuedo-intellectual tool looking to makes his bones on someone else's dime.....  Where is YOUR blog?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:59 | 4304078 loonyleft
loonyleft's picture

downvote. tyler's all growed up. I am sure he can take it.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:14 | 4303970 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Ronnie moas (founder and only employee of standpoint research)  is not worthy of making zh, he told everyone to plow into yrcw at 32 bucks with a 50 pt. I would know this because i called him out on it and like the israeli army vet that he was, this guy should not be bothered with. The research standpoint does is as diligent as my dog's.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:00 | 4303971 malikai
malikai's picture

Regulatory and wage arbitrage sounds more like cancer than capitalism to me.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:06 | 4303983 CH1
CH1's picture

Dodging regulators is a fine thing to do

Abusing people ain't.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:18 | 4304005 malikai
malikai's picture


But maybe it would be better without bullshit regulators 'doing their duty'.

Maybe that's a different discussion.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:01 | 4303973 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

They just don't get it. Apple produces very little hardware in house. It is contracted out to third parties. Apple has a contract with Foxconn to manufacture the iphone. If Foxconn is paying its workers $2 an hour, that is not Apple's responsibility. I am sure Apple put the contract up for bid and Foxconn came in with the best proposal. If Foxconn had to pay its workers more than $2 an hour, they would have had to increase their bid and probably lost the contract to another company and Foxconn's workers would be earning nothing instead of $2 an hour. Since when did it become Apple's responsibility, or any other multinational company for that matter, to guarantee anyone a certain standard of living? These idiots at Standpoint Research need to quit and go to work at the White House. They will fit in nicely.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:02 | 4303981 negative rates
negative rates's picture

@ These idiots at Standpoint Research need to quit and go to work at the White House. They will fit in nicely.

There's a contract for that.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:07 | 4303988 greatbeard
greatbeard's picture

>> not Apple's responsibility.

You are correct, corporations have no responsibility, for anything, which is what got us to where we are today.  Jobs is where he deserves to be.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:45 | 4304045 11b40
11b40's picture

....but don't forget, my friend, that corporations are people, too.

Or something like that.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:43 | 4304358 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"corporations are people"....almost there.  The Supreme Court wrote "we are all of the opinion" that corporations are Persons before the law.  That's from Santa Clara County vs. Southern Pacific Railroad, 1886.

There's a very long and ugly story behind that:

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:21 | 4304446 11b40
11b40's picture

Yes, I know, but I should have included the quotation marks in my post to properly attribute the remark to Mitt Romney's answer to a critic on the campaign trail in 2012.

Here is the solution:

Others are waking up:,+too&rlz=1C1CHHZ_enUS513US513&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_NbKUvysF8qokQen5YDIDg&ved=0CF4QsAQ&biw=1137&bih=724&dpr=0.9

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:28 | 4304475 11b40
11b40's picture

@ I.C.

Interesting link, thanks.  Here is the intro:

As corporations gain in autonomous institutional power and become more detached from people and place, the human interest and the corporate interest increasingly diverge. It is almost as though we were being invaded by alien beings intent on colonizing our planet, reducing us to serfs, and then excluding as many of us as possible. —David Korten

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:16 | 4304010 X86BSD
X86BSD's picture

Exactly. I know people love to hate apple they've been doing it since the company began but seriously this is the dumbest and most ignorant fucking thing to say about apple I've seen in a loooong time. You show me a single fucking company that pays the wages of another companies employees. Just one. I mean really apple haters, company A pay the wages of company B's employees? Really??? You're stupid.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:56 | 4304075 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

in a capitalist system, the burden of ethical responsibility lies squarely on consumers, who have almost all the power, whether they choose to realize it or not.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:58 | 4304080 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Yes indeed. Vote with your wallet.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:51 | 4304571 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

I'm glad we don't live in a Capitalist society, otherwise JPM/GS/BAC/Citigroup would've been long gone.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:52 | 4304188 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Exactly. Funny how people always point to Apple, as if things are different with Samsung or every other company for that matter.


BTW the real reason those wages are low has to do with governments manipulating the money supply (in this case the US and China), not with companies and certainly not capitalism. I'm surprised that even here on ZH most people blame the 'free' market instead of the real source of the problem.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:49 | 4304212 johnnyarrowmaker
johnnyarrowmaker's picture

Ask one of the founders of modern capitalism - Ford - "if the workers dont earn enough, they cant afford to buy my cars".

You're talking through your arse - so businesses have no responsibility at all, according to you, except making money.

So just who benefits then?  Look down to the end of the road ... what do YOU see?  A happy, contented society, or the tumbrils?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:51 | 4304378 artless
artless's picture

Singleguy is the only person here who gets it. The rest of you are fucking morons.

I personally could not care less about Apple. In other words I don't have a dog in the hunt-not invested, not a iShit user. I own a giant Mac desktop because I am a photographer and everything else out there is complete garbage because it runs on the Microshit platform which is patently absurd as far as operating systems go.

Apple farms out the hardware. EVERYONE farms out stuff like this to your so-called subsitence wage labor force in China. Pretty much NONE of you commenting negatively on Apple regarding this are not consumers of something made by the very same Chinese labor, Vietnamese labor, MEXICAN labor, Bangladeshi...and on and on. So in other words shut the fuck up.

If you don't like it, don't buy any iShit. Perhaps it never occured to all you capitalist success story geniuses that the $10 billion Apple has on the sidelines is due to the shitty economic environment. They along with anyone else who can pack away the cash are either doing so or buying up anything that might keep them going in light of the FACT that the industry as a whole has hit a bit of a technological dead end. Hence why the Apples and Googles of the world have become to some degree just large patent clearing houses. They are all trying to find the next product line, the next "pad", "tablet", iPod, laptop, smart phone. Sorry but GoogleGlass just ain't it. What's THE next thing? Huh? R&D is where one would usually put all that cash but the "Regime Uncertainlty" of pretty much every last nation state in the world makes the big boys very conservative. So they stash a ton of cash.

As far as the subsistence wages go and the bullshit outrage that someone in Vietnam makes $2/hour: I was not aware that CHINESE laborers were paid in dollars.

Because they are not. they are paid in THEIR shitty fiat currency. You might want to examine that a bit closer because the same goes for all the aformentioned countries I listed above. So if you were clothes, drink coffee, have any electronic device. part, or otherwise in your home then you are endorsing that about which you bitch and moan.

Standpoint probably want to get some brownie points from the statist asshat morons who might then be more prone to send them some cash to lose, or they are deliberately trying to force Apple share price down with stupid press, etc. Check and see if they have divested or downgraded all the other companies that use Foxcon.

Then look up the working conditions, pay scales w/ ebnnies, and get some feedback from actual Apple employess who recieve checks signed by Tim Cook (or whoever-using that for emphasis) payable in DOLLARS. My guess is that those folks are pretty happy with it all.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:55 | 4304592 Singelguy
Singelguy's picture

The root of the problem lies with Congress. They ratified the free trade deals that allows all those goods to come into the USA without any tarrifs while US goods are subject to tarrifs in the trading country. The trade agreements need to be ammended to fair trade agreements. You tax our stuff, we tax yours. However, I am sure members of Congress got lots of pressure from their corporate campaign contributers to ratify those deals so that they could export the manufacturing jobs to low wage countries and import the finished products duty free. Little did they realize that without jobs, American consumers could not buy their products or maybe they just didn't care. By the time it became a problem, the CEO had already retired with a multi million dollar pension.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:01 | 4303974 Jason T
Jason T's picture

Henry Ford comes to mind..  made his employees productive enough to justify high wage.  

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:03 | 4303984 More_sellers_th...
More_sellers_than_buyers's picture

They worked here though.  Read Fordlandia.  He tried to duplicate that in Brazil and that didnt work so well.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:48 | 4304051 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

It didn't fail due to wages, it failed due to the land was inhospitable for rubber trees and Ford tried to dictate people’s home life by banning alcohol and tobacco use in home.  That's not Capitalism, but a Dictatorship.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:10 | 4303993 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Ford didn't like Jewish Bankers speculating with his company.  He hired Lebanese to do the work and that's how Detroit got mosques.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:39 | 4304038 therevolutionwas
therevolutionwas's picture

That $2 an hour IS a high wage for those (asian?) employees apparantly.  Labor was scarce in Ford's time, no?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:51 | 4304056 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Actually, that $2 isn't a high wage anymore for those Chinese manufacturing plants.  If it was a wage paid to someone who lived and worked in the rural lands of China, yes its a high wage, but the plants are in cities which have had heavly localized inflation.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:44 | 4304369 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Labor was scarce in Ford's time, no?

No. Ford arbitrarily decided to pay his workers $5/day, twice the prevailing industry wage, because "I want the people who build my automobiles to be able to buy my automobiles".

Whatever you think about Henry Ford, he was not a tool of the globalists or the European banking trusts.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:03 | 4303977 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

I downgraded Apple for having a faggot CEO.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:07 | 4303986 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



At least the state ain't paying for it.....just sayin.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:05 | 4303980 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

If it was the slavery times, my bet is Tyler would be bullish of plantations. It's "capitalism" he would argue...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:08 | 4303990 e.blair
e.blair's picture

Tyler doesn't like crony capitalism, but he is all for rapacious capitalism.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:38 | 4304041 Frederick N. Chase
Frederick N. Chase's picture

My dad said a company had equal responsibility to 3 constituencies. Shareholders, employees, and customers.   (And he ran one.)  This is common law but not necessarily civil law.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:53 | 4304061 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

And therein lies the problem with the current system.  A company needs to only be responsible to employees and customers.  Shareholders are only along for the ride.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:21 | 4304283 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Are you new to the business concept thing?

Which comes first?

Hint: Capital.

From where?

Hint: Shareholders.

They ARE the ride. Without them there are no employees and no customers.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:46 | 4304372 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Hint: Capital.

From where?

Hint: Shareholders.


Sorry, wrong answer. Hint: Capital nows comes from the Fed for 10 basis points.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:44 | 4304542 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

No employees + no customers = how much return on said capital?


Happy/productive employees + satisfied customers = happy shareholders

Again, you're still thinking in this ass backwards way that has led to the current system of only being profitable by cutting costs and not fulfilling obligations or satisfying customers’ expectations.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:05 | 4305495 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

ACTUALLY workers are the #1 capital.
Investors are #2. You can maybe get by without investors but you never ever can do a thing without workers.

Also, if the only investors you can find are dumb enough to throw you capital with NO employees or intent to keep your employees you will either get next to no capital or real angry dummies for investors.

Smart investors throw money at good chances & that includes good employees and that includes employees who aren't exploited.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:41 | 4304353 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

Common law is almost entirely extinct in the U.S.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:03 | 4303985 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

Chinese workers getting $2 an hour?  Relatively speaking it sounds like they're overpaid.  IF they don't like their work they can be traded in for other rural poor.  Coming soon to a US venue near you.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:14 | 4303995 Rainman
Rainman's picture

USSA prisoner workers make only 60 cents/hr ...... but the benefits are outstanding ( room, board, free medical )

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:18 | 4304013 10mm
10mm's picture

And free gym membership.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:04 | 4303987 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Hey Steve, now that you are in hell, how does it feel working for 2 bucks?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:13 | 4304120 Woodhippie
Woodhippie's picture

What did one doe say to the other doe?


I'll never do that for two bucks again.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:08 | 4303994 10mm
10mm's picture

Coming soon? It's already here in Pennsylvania. Foxxconn breaking ground in Pa.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:14 | 4303997 fijisailor
fijisailor's picture

An iphone is just an insignificant communications device.  I consider my stove or hot water heater or a whole bunch of other household gadgets more important.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:13 | 4304000 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Rotten Apple.

Apple Sucks.

Fuck Apple

Apple profits need to be redistributed into their employees bitcoin wallets and the owners need to be put into prison.

Open Source Software shall implement morality, based on the individual, into a new and arising economic system.

The primitive system of oligarchs and corporations must be destroyed if people are to survive past January 3, 2016..

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:59 | 4305256 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

Off your feed ?

Adjusting your dosage this week ?  

No, don't hold back, tell us what you really feel.

And sit, stay.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:16 | 4304001 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Apple has nothing to do with capitalism. It's about playing out people against eachother. €700,- for an iPhone in the west, paid for with debt slavery, and made by other slaves for $2,- an hour in the east. Globalists and corporatists in one bed.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:19 | 4304003 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

This is the reason why American compnies get to pay minimum minimum wages to the slaves of the world:

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:18 | 4304006 siamsam
siamsam's picture

I also say fuck apple and any other "American" Corporation who does the same.  I used to be loyal to Apple but have not bought any of their products for years fir exactually the reason that they were downgraded.

Captalism worked when it the operators were fundemently moral.  it is failing now because they are not.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:01 | 4304084 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

perhaps it's failing because other consumers are failing to make the same connection you did.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:05 | 4305266 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

Might want to try some Istuff again -

At least it has a spellcheck most everywhere.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:20 | 4304012 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

The party hardy folks at the Secret Service will not allow the president to use an apple phone because of secutiry concerns.  What more do you need to know?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:18 | 4304014 cirrus
cirrus's picture

I agree with Standpoint. All those 2$/hr Apple workers should go back to starving on the streets or flee back to the countryside and farm rice for survival.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:47 | 4304048 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

($2/hr or starve on the streets)

Pray your boss doesn't try that with you.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:49 | 4304058 Debugas
Debugas's picture

believe me they would go back to the countryside and farm there PROVIDED THEY HAD THEIR OWN FARMLANDS TO FARM FROM

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:24 | 4304021 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

The truth is Apple is doing what a corporation is supposed to do.  Find the most affordable resources to build their product, in this case labor.  The side effect is they give these workers a better life that would otherwise be possible, they would not work there if this wasn't the best opportunity afforded to them. This time while making profit that keeps there employees here in the US gainfully employed, pays millions of retirement funds a 2.3% dividend, and provides a great product at a reasonable price.

Stand Point Research like many in this country are fools.  So what do they want, do you want them to pay three dollars, four, five?  What arbitrary number would they want.  Hey at five it by the time you factor in transportation and other logistics it might be worth it to bring manufacturing back to the US.  Apple will make less profit and it may damage them and ultimately destroy them, maybe not.  But for a while the 10000 new manufacturing workers in the United States getting paid 16 dollars an hour will have jobs, at least for a while, but what is the flip side, well the 80000 Chinese that Stand Point Research was so concerned about now have to find new jobs, probably paying considerably lower then Apple maybe even half.  Congrats Stand Point, real humanitarians, Sarc.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:49 | 4305418 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

China is not a free country, people do not choose to work in the best available conditions.
They are forced in many ways, often through government corruption, sometimes through violence & other threats you apparently would like to believe never happens.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:28 | 4304023 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Fuck crapitalism if it means a few maggots take a giant dump on the entire planet and everyone in it. Why is it that executives and paper pushers can never be paid enough while labor is considered to be nearly fucking worthless?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:53 | 4304060 Debugas
Debugas's picture

it is because labour controls no real capital and thus has no choice but to be slaves

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:06 | 4304097 bwh1214
bwh1214's picture

That actually isn't true, the largest owners of stock thus should have a say in the pay structure are retirement funds, pension funds, 401k's and IRA's.  I think that boards need to be organized to enforce pay at all levels to appropriate levels.  Unfortunately the shareholders are shirking their responsibilities to chose board members.  The board members are chosen by those fund managers that are probably friends with the executives of those companies.  The true owners of those funds should flex their muscles and vote people into those boards that will ensure that the higher pay goes to where it will make the best returns, if that is the general labor force so be it, engineers and professionals fine, mid management and yes if executives make the best return pay them more.  I actually think there should be a major shift in this and I can't believe I'm saying this but Government could take a roll, not by circumventing capitalism, as they usually try to do, but encouraging the true owners of those retirement funds to flex their muscles in voting for board members that will manage them the best way possible.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:07 | 4304099 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I'm sure you're being cynical, but this is the biggest lie told. That a small elite think of everyone else as slaves is an eternal lesson. We are born into a world where reality is created, maintained and enforced upon us all. The greatest tool of slavery is law. Once you eliminate law, the possibilities are endless and EQUALLY COMPETITIVE. They are also equally dangerous, but then, that is the gist of life, no?


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:42 | 4305404 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

it's true & is the product of 2 horrifying trends. #1 no one feels the need to let their children inherit skills or physical assets
#2 over-population, diluting the labour pool too far.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:02 | 4304092 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Try organizing yer own multi-national corp. to find out why.  We'll wait for yer report...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:51 | 4305219 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

we don't need such multinational corps.
Try forming your own local business to displace their markets.
You'll find out government assistance is one-sided & destroys you while aiding the multinational.
It's criminal.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:29 | 4304028 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Yes paying higher wages is bad for capitalism, those who benefit from it and they are totally against it.

Low wages wouldn't be so bad if things weren't so expensive.

The big fish support high asset prices thru artificial stimulation via the FED.

In other words if your poor you're getting fucked in both ends.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:44 | 4304044 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Ted Heath, British PM back in the sixties/seventies coined the phrase;

'The unacceptable face of capitalism'.

He was referring to the asset stripper  company Slater Walker, but it seems apropos.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:45 | 4304049 GreatUncle
GreatUncle's picture

A central bank should never be allowed to inflate an economy over another where the disparity between the cost of work grows. THIS THEY DID, SOLVED NOTHING AND SET IN MOTION THE FUTURE OUTCOME.

Then once in this overvalued position they truly take the biscuit, allowing even demanding free trade so the cheaper costs elsewhere now destabilise everything. FREE TRADE DESTROYS INFLATED CENTRAL BANK VALUES.

Awesome job, inflate, chase free trade and watch the chickens come home to roost of the actions carried out by most  central banks for decades.

Good job boys!

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:50 | 4304052 esum
esum's picture

i thought foxconn made the product...under contract to apple...

if youre going to get on the moral soapbox perhaps the UN is a better venue

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:47 | 4304054 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Another Media attempt to divert focus on the real issue, NSA spying on iSlave phones.

IPHONE 5S AND IPHONE 5C PARODY - Ultimate NSA Spying Device

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:46 | 4305209 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

I think you got it backwards.
Spying is not nearly as important as worker exploitation leading to mass starvation or mass suicides.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:55 | 4304064 theprofromdover
theprofromdover's picture

There is no rule that says pure capitalism or nothing, pure socialism or nothing.

We should be eternally grateful that the Victorians evolved the conept of social responsibility. Apple should care about the working conditions of their suppliers' assemblers. So should you.

Apple can of course sign contracts that means their suppliers pay $2/hr, but that means we won't ever get any manufacturing jobs in US. Don't think you want that.

Apple is big enough to enslave an entire country into working for nothing, but all of their customers would eventually walk away with distaste.

If I was a worker in the west, I would pray for the day Apple have to pay $20/hr in China, cos then the jobs would come back home.

12 months of import controls (although a bad thing in itself) might focus Apple's minds. At least that kind of war doesn't spill so much blood.


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:48 | 4305206 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

"Apple is big enough to enslave an entire country into working for nothing, but all of their customers would eventually walk away with distaste."
No, Apple customers tend to be cult-worshipping, self-centered sheeple of the highest order of ignorance & arrogance.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:06 | 4305281 Proofreder
Proofreder's picture

I guess you must be an Apple customer then ...

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 19:07 | 4305818 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

never been.
Not any ipad, iphone, mac IIe, nothing.
Always been with PC clones from the start. Would have been nice to have an Amiga but since I had friends with Amigas I used theirs when I went to visit.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:56 | 4304067 conork
conork's picture

In alot of industries, its best to leave your emotions at the door and just be professional. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:29 | 4304172 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Interesting point, so emotional equates to non professional?

"It's just business, It's not personal" right?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:51 | 4305216 the0ther
the0ther's picture

Professionalism always seemed like a dirty cop-out word to me. Now it's clear why I always had that feeling.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:57 | 4304071 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Time for everyone to look themselves in the mirror again, because every single international company that manufactures here and sells in the US is guilty of the same sin.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 09:55 | 4304073 Doctor Faustus
Doctor Faustus's picture

I read and greatly appreciate ZH because it gives me a better understanding of macro-economics beyond my immediate surroundings and sphere of influence.

Based on the many comments I have read over the past several years, my impression is that the majority of the ZH readership are NOT manufacturers nor even employers. It's easy to pontificate about the evils of companies who produce a tangible product while trying to placate their customers, employees, vendors and stockholders (if publicly traded)--doubly so if that product is highly technical in nature.

That being said, I firmly believe an employer should strive to treat all groups (customers, employees, vendors, etc.) with as much equality and consideration as is economically feasible as I believe it will, in the long-term, be profitable for all.

Unfortunately, our current business culture is quite short-sighted and looks to quarterly rather than long-term profits. Contrast this with the centuries-long outlook of certain banking families who don't even produce a product but simply provide a service. 

My two cents worth (adjusted for inflation, of course).



Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:07 | 4304083 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Their 2013 report says that they have the equivalent of 80,300 employees. If they gave everybody a $1 increase per hour that would be $40 per week or $2080 per year. As a total over 80,300 employees it would come to just over $167 million.

Apple is truly stingy.

Apple has the ability to change the quality of their workers' lives so dramatically for so little.

Perhaps a bonus to their workers might be the right way to display trickle down economics.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:12 | 4304098 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Robotics finds it hard to compete with 2$/HR humans, but that is the comparison, not a lower wage human with a higher wage human. 

Wages are costs, costs are minimized.   That is how they think.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:18 | 4304131 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

So let me get this straight. If it costs $3000 per year to keep a man fed but it costs only $2000 to run a machine, we are justified in allowing the human being to starve?

If, as you say, this is how they think, I am afraid the day will come when the workers well and truly throw some spanners into the works and perhaps rightly so.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:30 | 4304162 RaceToTheBottom
RaceToTheBottom's picture

Exactly, wages are viewed as exactly the same as the cost of oil and maintenance for a robotic production line.

To not recognize this is to not see the sun rise.

Once wage arbitrage doesn't work with international labor, it will work with robotics, maybe sooner.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:38 | 4305170 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

except it costs far, far more than 2000/year counting all maintenance, all repairs, all diagnostics & all replacements amortized over the life of the factory.
Humans self-repair & seek their own food (or fail to find it). Robots can't do that.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:08 | 4304105 yrbmegr
yrbmegr's picture

"In other words,...."  Your paraphrase of Standpoint's complaint is inaccurate.  They do not fault Apple for being profitable.  They fault Apple for maintaining exceptional profitability by allegedly exploiting workers.  You might disagree, and the allegation might not be true, but it wasn't a stupid allegation.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:20 | 4304139 vxpatel
vxpatel's picture

relax, the invisible hand will sort all this out....

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:23 | 4304158 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I believe that Henry Ford had a much more enlightened approach than the invisible hand.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:32 | 4304171 vxpatel
vxpatel's picture


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:19 | 4304142 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

My late father and I were once strolling through a large hardware shop and looking at the dirt cheap prices on the items sold.

He stopped and said, "the day will come when they will be so cheapp that we cannot afford to buy these goods."

His reasoning was simple. If you outsource in increasingly greater measure, the day will come when the goods will well and truly be cheap but if all the jobs are lost, the lack of income will mean you do not have the ability to buy these goods regardless of price.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:22 | 4304149 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

First of all, to the Consumers of apple products, Lest you forget Each Sale comes with lifetime subscription to"NSA Data Recovery Platinum" so have no fear your data is in good hands.

To the Executives, apple will go down in history as the consumer tech version of reality TV. Bread and circus for the sheeple.

To the shareholders, let it be known that exploiting the poor may be good business but in lining your pockets you have condemned yourselves to deepest parts of hell. I encourage you to spend it while you can. The sun will come to shine upon the world and no slimy crevice is narrow enough to protect you from the reckoning.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:27 | 4304153 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture


Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:30 | 4304168 B.J. Worthy
B.J. Worthy's picture

Steve Jobs has been reincarnated as a Mumbai peasant.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:52 | 4304218 Musashi Miyamoto
Musashi Miyamoto's picture

"Stay hungry..." - Steve Jobs

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:47 | 4305197 the0ther
the0ther's picture

One can hope.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 10:31 | 4304175 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I thought Apple had their stuff built by outsourcer FoxCon.  Bad situation, but what happens when everything is full automated with robotics?

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:19 | 4305123 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

can't be yet.
robots can't adapt to new situations, can't re-program themselves, build new frames for new purposes, etc.
They also can't heal damage & can't self-seek energy sources. Living humans do.
Turns out slave-humans are cheaper than slave-robots.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:08 | 4304251 PR Guy
PR Guy's picture



Looks like the guy in this cartoon (a spoof on TED Talks) knows what the word 'capitalism' means - and in many different cultures.




Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:00 | 4304394 shovelhead
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:13 | 4304265 nick howdy
nick howdy's picture

All because people have to work for a living doesn't mean that it's ok to exploit them. The 2.00 an hour wage exploits all workers, everywhere..That would include most of the Retard Capitalists on this blog...You are fucking stupid with sticking to any ideology, expecially when the people who are the chief creators and proponents of said ideology have given up on it...

Stealing can be Capitalism also, and that's most of what happening now...Stealing someone's labor .. Isn't that what the Federal Reserve is doing? But I guess that's ok...right?.and it's unfair also...and should the peasants rise the fuck up and kill their enslavers. Yes they should and eventually will..

People should not be able to screw others just because they can..Even if our leaders and government support this behavior, because eventually this type of destructive predation creates even bigger problems..

"Human Resources". ....I'm not your resource, neither are my brothers in China, or anywhere...Fuck off..

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:43 | 4304367 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


Texted on an iPhone with absolutely no sense of the irony involved.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:03 | 4304822 nick howdy
nick howdy's picture

Gee...I guess you have the only piece of electronics not made in China..Shmuck...There's no irony, not when there is no choice...You can hate the Federal Reserve, but we are still stuck playing with fiat anyway...Idiot.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 14:09 | 4304869 nick howdy
nick howdy's picture

Three thumbs down for not enslaving others....I think the appropriate phrase for this is "unbelievable assholes"....My do unto others speech usually evokes this type of response from Satanists, I'm used to it.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:12 | 4305105 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

+1 but just barely.
Capitalism requires consent which means no stealing.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 11:23 | 4304278 Donlast
Donlast's picture

Capitalism is the best system to ensure democracy because it sets up private interests and power that compete with the State. But there are limits.  Unbridled capitalism has fearful political consequences that in the end destroys democracy and capitalism.

As ever, it is a question of not going to extremes, something the Greeks propounded about 2,500 years ago. 

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:46 | 4304755 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

So the barbed wire on top of the manufacturing plants are there to keep the happy workers from enjoying themslves to death? What kind of capitalism is that again? Before you strain yourself that is not capitalism at all, it is fascism by the State in China and just plain old fascism in the States.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 12:20 | 4304452 irongator
irongator's picture

I wonder if all those pretentious apple snobs even care. Likely not because if the cost of their i-crap doubled they would be leaping off the ubiquitous i-bandwagon. Not to defend apple, but the reality is that most American manufacturers have sold us out to increase corporate profits and the consumer has bought into this idea of "save money, live better" hand over fist. Nobody gives a damm where anything is made or how much the workers are paid, as long as it's cheap. Until that changes, we will continue to be a 3rd world economy that doesn't make or really own anything.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:12 | 4304639 starman
starman's picture

APPLE the "model" of a perfect American corporation!


80.000 workers employed in US at 10 dollar minimum wage

1.2 million workers in China at 2 dollar minimum wage

profits 150billion


slavery? nooo

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 13:56 | 4304808 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture

It is not a moral issue in that all the other computer companies are doing the same thing.  Dell even builds their laptops in China and ships it directly to you in the States via FedEx.

However a good question is, "is this sustainable"? If Apple and all other computer companies are going to see margin pressure due to higher labor costs, then that is a problem.

And, what use is it to hold $150B of a depreciating currency? They should return some of it to shareholders or put that cash to some other good use.

Mon, 01/06/2014 - 16:01 | 4305261 irishlink
irishlink's picture

Wanted to do an experiment. If a child wrote a letter outlining it's life of extreme...poverty to the wealthiest people in the world would he get a reply.Sadly I suspect not. We have RUPERT worrying about divorce. Nigella and Satchi worrying about assistants and cocaine. To mention just a few. Oprah may be the only one who might reply. She has come up trumps before. Sadly We are only numbers , but the people with least to give often give the most as they are closer to the problems

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