• Tim Knight from...
    04/28/2016 - 00:27
    I was expecting a few boring candidate statements of the U.S. Senate - AKA the World's Most Exclusive Club - but, boy, was I wrong. Just take a look at some of these gems.
  • Tim Knight from...
    04/28/2016 - 00:27
    I was expecting a few boring candidate statements of the U.S. Senate - AKA the World's Most Exclusive Club - but, boy, was I wrong. Just take a look at some of these gems.

Chicago's "Out Of Step And Outrageous" Gun Sales Ban Ruled Unconstitutional

Tyler Durden's picture




 

After ruling as unconstitutional Chicago ordinances that aim to reduce gun violence by banning their sale within the city’s limits, U.S. District Judge Edmond E. Chang said Monday that while the government has a duty to protect its citizens, it’s also obligated to protect constitutional rights, including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense. As AP reports, the decision is just the latest to attack what were some of the toughest gun-control laws in the nation; with the NRA noting it "shows how out of step and outrageous Chicago’s ordinances really are." Despite the city's ban "to protect its citizens," Chicago last year had more homicides than any city in the nation.

Via AP,

A federal judge has potentially opened a new market to gun dealers after ruling as unconstitutional Chicago ordinances that aim to reduce gun violence by banning their sale within the city’s limits.

 

U.S. District Judge Edmond E. Chang said Monday that while the government has a duty to protect its citizens, it’s also obligated to protect constitutional rights, including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense. However, Chang said he would temporarily stay the effects of his ruling, meaning the ordinances can stand while the city decides whether to appeal.

 

The decision is just the latest to attack what were some of the toughest gun-control laws in the nation.

 

...

 

National Rifle Association lobbyist Todd Vandermyde applauded Chang’s decision, saying it “shows how out of step and outrageous Chicago’s ordinances really are.”

 

...

 

Every year Chicago police recover more illegal guns than officers in any city in the country, a factor of lax federal laws as well as lax laws in Illinois and surrounding states related to straw purchasing and the transfer of guns,” Drew said. “We need stronger gun safety laws, not increased access to firearms within the city.”

 

...

 

“That is one of the fundamental duties of government: to protect its citizens,” he wrote. “But on the other side of this case is another feature of government: certain fundamental rights are protected by the Constitution, put outside government’s reach, including the right to keep and bear arms for self-defense under the Second Amendment.”

 

Chicago last year had more homicides than any city in the nation. City officials have long acknowledged the ban on gun sales has been weakened due to the legal sale of guns in some surrounding suburbs and states.

 

...

 

“All the people I know who own guns legally are really careful,” said Pacholski, whose wife, also was a plaintiff. “I’m a collector; my guns are not going anywhere unless I know where they’re going because I don’t want to be responsible for someone’s death.”

 

Illinois Council Against Hand Gun Violence campaign coordinator Mark Walsh said he wasn’t surprised by the ruling.

 

“I’m not sure what the city’s plan is (following the ruling), but I think obviously there is a need to make sure gun dealers coming into the city are aware of those who have restrictions on gun ownership and don’t sell to them,” he said.

 

Chicago still has a ban on assault weapons.

As we noted previously, the facts are problematic for the anti-gun lobbyists (no matter how much common sense they believe they have)...

In an inconvenient truth moment for the anti-gun lobby, Harvard's Don Kates and Gary Mauser expose the facts behind gun control and violent crime. While not the first time we have discussed this awkward reality, the depth of the academics' datasets and the findings are unquestionable that there is in fact a "negative correlation" between violence and gun ownership. As they state,

"where firearms are most dense violent crime rates are lowest, and where guns are least dense violent crime rates are highest,"

The burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra.

To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

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Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:18 | 4308449 hedgeless_horseman
Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:20 | 4308460 fonestar
fonestar's picture

If these people really wanted to stop "gun violence" they would ban thugs (but that wouldn't be politically correct).

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:55 | 4308577 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

And yet your comment is dripping with political correctness.

Proper banning would be dictated by FBI crime statistics broken down by race.  That means persons of color, most especially BLACKS.

In other words, Profile, baby.

 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:17 | 4308642 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

a judge publicly stating that gubmint is 'obligated to protect constitutional rights'

circa 2014 reign of Odoofus, THAT'S CRAZY TALK

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:42 | 4308732 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Make open carry of handguns legal and mandatory in Chicago and let Smith & Wesson and Colt and Ruger and Keltec and even fucking High Point sort em out!

THEN we would see some civility for a change.

Of course there would be about half as many people left alive in Chicago.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:09 | 4308845 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

Don't forget legalizing concealed carry.  I would argue the opposite would happen and there would be a violent breakout of peace.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:54 | 4309019 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

The judge once had a maid that just said _______ (fill in the blanks)

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 16:17 | 4309100 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Duke:  The problem with concealed carry is that you still have the problem of "brandishing a weapon" even if it prints a little.

And concealed carry weapons tend to be smaller with less capacity, sight radius, snappy recoil, etc.

With mandatory open carry THEN you've got much better options of what to carry like a nice big revolver (or even TWO) and ya can be "stylin" with a fancy gun belt, a nice hip, shoulder or bandolier holster...

Think of the boost it would give the fashion industry!

Of course there are always going to be those frugal types who just want to carry "Mexican" style and that's OK, but it makes carrying two big revolvers a bit difficult on certain aspects of the anatomy.

Wed, 01/08/2014 - 10:51 | 4311337 fallout11
fallout11's picture

Statistics show that in the vast majority of cases the presence of a gun prevents a crime without it ever even being discharged. Thus open carry also offers substantial deterant value not found with concealed carry.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:13 | 4308864 InjectTheVenom
InjectTheVenom's picture

... and a surprise IRS audit of Judge Chang begins in  3 ... 2 ... 1    .  .  .  .  .

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 16:44 | 4309165 Jam Akin
Jam Akin's picture

Surprisingly he was nominated to the federal court by Obama in 2010.

Incidentally, Chicago had a big drop in number of murders this year past in both relative and absolute terms:

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/01/01/the-year-in-murder-2013...

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:45 | 4310024 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

The drop in crime due to a shortage of people left to murder

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 17:47 | 4309417 chemystical
chemystical's picture

"Make open carry of handguns legal and mandatory"

Do you mean like this? :

"It has been featured as one of the top 10 best towns in America for families by Family Circle magazine, and it has one of the lowest crime rates in the entire Atlanta metropolitan area. But one little-known fact about Kennesaw, Georgia, population 30,000, is that heads of household living in the town are required by law to own at least one firearm."

I used to know one of their former mayors.  I told him that was pretty cool.  He said, "Nah, we pretty much took turns being mayor."

http://www.naturalnews.com/038895_gun_ownership_Georgia_safety.html

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:41 | 4308733 synergize
synergize's picture

If they want to stop crime then forget prison - murderers are killed 1 week after conviction.  And do it publicly.

Voila!  Crime rates drop!

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:44 | 4308748 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

For an example, see how well this has worked in Canada.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:55 | 4308776 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Excellent idea!  We'll just tell the families of those who were innocent, wrongly convicted and then executed that it was all for the greater good!  I'm sure they'll understand. 

False Confessions

In about 25% of DNA exoneration cases, innocent defendants made incriminating statements, delivered outright confessions or pled guilty.

These cases show that confessions are not always prompted by internal knowledge or actual guilt, but are sometimes motivated by external influences.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/understand/False-Confessions.php

And look up the Reid Technique.  I do simply do not trust our government to get it right when it comes to taking away something that can never be given back and cannot even be compensated for.  It's not that I don't think that child rapists and the like don't deserve to die, they do, but a lot of innocent people would die. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:03 | 4308816 Duke of Earl
Duke of Earl's picture

+1

You beat me to it.  Don't forget the motivation shift for a speedy trial this would create.  So much for appeals, it's pointless to prove true innocence when the primary suspect is already dead...

 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:11 | 4308858 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

Hmmmm.   Let's see,

Execution 1 week, or 25 YEARS after conviction.

Which is more insane?

We need something in between, but I think MUCH more toward the 1 week interval.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:59 | 4309043 pods
pods's picture

Just remember, this is power that you are giving THE STATE.

And they are REALLY good at killing people.

pods

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 16:10 | 4309079 PrecipiceWatching
PrecipiceWatching's picture

I'm not giving them anything.

The "State" (actually, mostly the individual states themselves), already have the power to execute properly convicted criminals. 

We are just discussing the reasonable time frame to carry out sentence here. 

Arguing against Capital Punishment is another argument.

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 16:52 | 4309172 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Actually, the arguments that I gave apply just as well to both banning capital punishment, as well as increasing the time frame between conviction and execution.  Just knowing cops' propensity to lie on the stand would be more than enough to make me much more comfortable handing down a life sentence instead of death, were it up to me in a capital case. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:14 | 4308865 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

I gave up support for the death penalty when I realized my opposition to government is much based upon its incompetence and corruption. Why would the government be competent and trustworthy with capital punisment and not much else?

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 15:27 | 4308908 El Vaquero
El Vaquero's picture

Yup.  My DA is retarded and there have been cases of DAs pursuing serious charges against individuals even though the DA knew that the individuals were innocent.  Police perjure them selves with a shocking regularity, and even when they don't a lot of them are not smart enough to conduct a proper investigation. 

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 19:10 | 4309595 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

I hear you.  I have been against death penalty since I came to the conclusion that meting out death is far more responsibility than gubmint is capable of responsibly handling

Tue, 01/07/2014 - 18:49 | 4309564 chemystical
chemystical's picture

Juxtapose the "executed man who was later found to be innocent" with this:

Rates of recidivism...WHOSE NEXT VICTIMS ARE EQUALLY INNOCENT are more numerous than your poster child.

Where's the greater good: saving innocent lives or saving innocent lives?

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=17

  • Of the 272,111 persons released from prisons in 15 states in 1994, an estimated 67.5% were rearrested for a felony or serious misdemeanor within 3 years, 46.9% were reconvicted, and 25.4% resentenced to prison for a new crime.
  • These offenders had accumulated 4.1 million arrest charges before their most recent imprisonment and another 744,000 charges within 3 years of release.
  • 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide.
  • The rate of recidivism amongst the executed is a whopping zero.  Can we at least stop releasing these fucks?????????????

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 18:55 | 4309572 Overfed
    Overfed's picture

    That would have to be balanced by SEVERE penalties for any prosecutor who convicts an innocent person.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 17:29 | 4309375 X_mloclaM
    X_mloclaM's picture

    perfection.great.

    You get the reds, explaining, tongue-in-cheek, what the guy above you said, who has 25 greens.

     

    ZH becoming filled with fucking straight morons?

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 17:46 | 4309414 Rafferty
    Rafferty's picture

    You get 8 downs for stating the blindingly obvious.  Go figure......

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:39 | 4308724 NotApplicable
    NotApplicable's picture

    Worse than that, it's not even logical. I mean, whoever heard of a self-banning thug?

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 21:51 | 4310045 Chuck Walla
    Chuck Walla's picture

    If gun control worked, Chicago would look more like Mayberry than Mad Max.

    Mayor Tiny Dancer must have turned a very attractive shade of purple.

    FORWARD SOVIET!

    Wed, 01/08/2014 - 02:25 | 4310703 A Nanny Moose
    A Nanny Moose's picture

    IOW, they would ban government. So when do we get started?

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:21 | 4308461 Manthong
    Manthong's picture

    OMG..  whatever will they do when the crime and murder rate plummets?

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:25 | 4308480 ACP
    ACP's picture

    Sounds like time for a focus group.

    So Mr. Mayor, if crime drops, maybe we can start paying people to commit more crimes to keep the anti-gun narrative going...

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:27 | 4308486 Dr. Engali
    Dr. Engali's picture

    You don't seriously believe that Rahm will adhere to this ruling do you? The gun grabbers will just ignore this.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:37 | 4308524 metastar
    metastar's picture

    There are no illegal guns. There is only illegal confiscation.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:39 | 4308527 El Vaquero
    El Vaquero's picture

    Well, as long as the system is still standing, and people aren't rolling the mothafuckin' guillotines, the only thing left to do is to sue the motherfuckers into the ground.  Start running their coffers dry even faster than the retards are doing so themselves, then ask "How are you going to pay those pensions when you're bankrupt, assholes?"  Fighting these lawsuits gets expensive, and at some point, with Chicago blatently ignoring what the courts say, people will be able to show a compelling government interest in awarding punative damages when cases involving damages arise. 

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:54 | 4308574 Ranger_Will
    Ranger_Will's picture

    "Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

    -John Adams, Letter to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, 11 October 1798

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 16:01 | 4309053 Winston Smith 2009
    Winston Smith 2009's picture

    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people."

    Redundant. One can be highly moral without being religious. And one can be highly immoral when driven by religion.

    Wed, 01/08/2014 - 11:00 | 4311372 fallout11
    fallout11's picture

    True. Further, John Adams (coauthor of the Declaration of Independence, btw) was also the author and signator of the Treaty of Tripoli (1797), ratified unimously by the US Senate containing many of the founding fathers of this country, which states categorically: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,...."

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:02 | 4308595 kralizec
    kralizec's picture

    Got that right.  These Nazi's never give up their fascist dreams.

    My guess is they go the excessive cost route, place massive taxes etc on guns and ammo and related products...make it impossible to buy or sell in their environment.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 17:27 | 4309366 Dinero D. Profit
    Dinero D. Profit's picture

    (pssssst!  Lean closer to the monitor so I can whisper.)

    When the SHTF, ammo smugglers are going to make a million! --that is, if they know how to smuggle.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:30 | 4308498 Crash Overide
    Crash Overide's picture

    "OMG..  whatever will they do when the crime and murder rate plummets?"

     

    They will loose potential profit in the privite prison system.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:23 | 4308473 chubbar
    chubbar's picture

    Amazing how many politicians and anti-gunners don't seem to understand the words "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED". Do we really need to go back and figure out what the meaning of "is, is"?

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 13:41 | 4308538 El Vaquero
    El Vaquero's picture

    I don't know why Clinton went with that defense.  He's from Arkansas.  If it's not in the family, it's not sex, pure and simple. 

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:18 | 4308647 pods
    pods's picture

    In some places, Eatin ain't cheatin!

    pods

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:07 | 4308613 DCFusor
    DCFusor's picture

    The libs obviously didn't read John Lott's well-researched book, "More guns, less crime".  He was just a sociologist at the time, no particular axe to grind, and doesn't even like the fame he now has, since the NRA found out about it.

    It's too damn dangerous to mug grannie if she might pull out a .45 and dot your eyes.

    Bush didn't want to sign the "must issue" concealed carry law in TX when he was governor there, but he did it, and crime went down.  It's a pattern everywhere it's been tried.

    Hit on a CCW person, you die.  No extended 3 hots and a cot while you fool with the legal system.  Bam, dead, right now.  Even dumb-ass criminals figure this out.  The ones that don't at least aren't recidivist.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:32 | 4308698 PrecipiceWatching
    PrecipiceWatching's picture

    Lott's work is a seminal work on this subject, thus it is verboten, shunned and ignored among statists and "progressives".

    Same treatment as "The Bell Curve", another exhaustively researched work, that came to a number of politically incorrect conclusions. 

    Sadly, the thesis of both books would achieve a fair number on down votes here on "Fight Club"

     

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:43 | 4308739 Temporalist
    Temporalist's picture

    I think you think The Bell Curve states something it doesn't.  Here is a direct quote:

    "The debate about whether and how much genes and environment have to do with ethnic differences remains unresolved."

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:51 | 4308768 PrecipiceWatching
    PrecipiceWatching's picture

    I think you need to read the entire work, including the copious illustrative material, rather than tossing out a single sentence.

    Tue, 01/07/2014 - 14:16 | 4308641 MieleBauknecht
    MieleBauknecht's picture

    selling guns to idiots simply results in 1000x more deaths than in countries where its regulated. 

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